Hilchos Shabbos: Salting Vegetables, Making Saltwater, and Preparing Salad

Topics

• Hilchos Shabbos: Preparing Saltwater and Salting Foods
• What Exactly Is Prohibited in Making Mei Melach?
• Quantity, Concentration, and a Question About Sugar
• The Mishnah Berurah: The Reason for the Gezeirah
• Does Modern Practice Change the Law?
• A Small Amount for Immediate Food Use
• Salting the Vegetables Themselves: Tznon, Onions, and Cucumbers
• The Mishnah Berurah's Example of "Shlatin"
• Rav Shlomo Zalman and the Way Vegetables Are Pickled
• Adding Oil or Vinegar
• Salting Salad on Shabbos: The Practical Question
• Half-Sour Pickles Left in Their Brine

Transcript

## Hilchos Shabbos: Preparing Saltwater and Salting Foods

*The recording opens in the middle of a discussion with talmidim about another halachic question, makeup on Shabbos. The speaker gives qualified comments about certain products and difficult personal circumstances, then turns to the scheduled shiur. Because that opening lacks its earlier context, it should not be circulated as a standalone practical ruling.*

Rabosai, today we are going to learn **the halachos of salting foods on Shabbos**. This sounds like an everyday subject. People put salt in their salad without a second thought. But there is an entire *sugya* here: when does salting become similar to pickling, and what exactly did Chazal prohibit?

Before we begin, remember that the **Mishnah Berurah** can be read in more than one way. One can emphasize the stringent side, or one can understand certain passages more leniently. We are not going to begin with our conclusion. I want to read the words **inside**, as impartially as possible, and see where they lead.

The subject is in **Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 321**, a *siman* that deals with several areas of *tikun ochel* on Shabbos. The first *se'if* speaks of bundles of herbs that may have been brought in for fuel or for animal food. That is a separate issue involving *muktzeh* and whether the item was designated as food.

But for us the central texts are **se'if beis** and **se'if gimel**. They are two different *dinim*.

**Se'if beis** begins: **"אין עושין מי מלח הרבה ביחד לתת לתוך הכבשים"**—one may not prepare a large quantity of saltwater together to put into pickled foods, **"משום דדמי לעיבוד"**, because this resembles *ibud*, tanning or preserving hides.

**Se'if gimel** begins: **"אסור למלוח חתיכות צנון ד' או ה' ביחד"**—one may not salt four or five pieces of radish together, because **"נראה ככובש כבשים"**, it looks like pickling vegetables.

Do you hear the distinction? One *se'if* concerns **preparing the salty liquid**; the other concerns **salting the food itself**. Their *taamim* may differ, though both belong to the broad question of salting and preserving. We are going to learn them together because their underlying concepts affect ordinary food preparation on Shabbos.

And I want you to notice exactly what the Mechaber says. Why does he mention making saltwater **"לתוך הכבשים"**? Would the *issur* apply even to a small amount prepared for some entirely different purpose? What if someone prepares it for immediate eating or a nonfood purpose, such as gargling?

I'm not giving a blanket *heter*. I'm asking why the Mechaber chose his words. Let's learn the *Mishnah Berurah* and the *Acharonim* before reaching practical conclusions.

## What Exactly Is Prohibited in Making Mei Melach?

Let us read the Mechaber carefully. **"אין עושין מי מלח הרבה ביחד לתת לתוך הכבשים"**. You're not allowed to make a large quantity of saltwater **to put into pickled foods**. Pay attention to those last words!

Many people repeat the halachah as though one may **never** prepare saltwater on Shabbos. But is that what the words say? Why specify **"לתוך הכבשים"**? What if somebody has an entirely different purpose?

For example, a person wants a little saltwater for gargling or another immediate need. Is that the same as preparing a preserving solution for vegetables? I am asking a *kashya*, not issuing a practical ruling. There may be further considerations, including the ordinary Shabbos laws of *refuah*, and I am not addressing those here.

The Mechaber continues: **"אבל יכול לעשות ממנו מעט לתת לתוך התבשיל"**—one may make a **small amount** to add to a prepared dish.

There are at least two dimensions: **the quantity** and **the intended use**. Does the intention determine the prohibition, or do Chazal forbid preparing a large quantity regardless of one's intention because it resembles *ibud*?

The reason given is **"משום דדמי לעיבוד"**. The process resembles tanning, where salt is used to preserve and treat skins. There is no Torah-level *ibud* of foods in the same way there is of hides, but Chazal prohibit certain food-preserving acts because of their resemblance to that *melachah*.

Now, somebody asks about *mei melach* for **Pesach**. Another mentions a medicinal purpose. Fine; we need to consider the different facts. But before discussing all those applications, let's understand whether the *halachah* depends on **what the saltwater is being made for**.

The **Tosefes Shabbos** is brought as distinguishing the case of preserving vegetables from preparing for other foods. The **Eliyah Rabbah** is more stringent, as we will see from the Mishnah Berurah. The important thing is not to run with one half of the source and forget the other.

There is a separate *shiur* I would like to give on the question of whether Yosef's brothers were fully forgiven. That is another time. Right now let's return to the words of our *sugya*.

If the *issur* were simply **making saltwater**, why didn't the Mechaber say **"אין עושין מי מלח"** and stop? Why did he describe its use for pickling? This is the *dikduk* I want to examine.

And he gives the *heter*: making **a small quantity to put in a dish**. But how small is small? And what if the mixture itself contains an extraordinary concentration of salt? Let's continue inside.

## Quantity, Concentration, and a Question About Sugar

The Shulchan Aruch continues: **"ואם נתן לתוכו שני שלישי מלח אסור לעשות ממנו אפילו מעט"**. If two-thirds of the mixture is salt, even a small amount may not be prepared.

So the law has two dimensions. For an ordinary saltwater mixture, preparing **a large amount** for preserving food is the concern, while a small amount for immediate food use is permitted. But a very strong mixture—**two parts salt to one part liquid**—is restricted even in a small quantity.

The Mishnah Berurah explains that the issue isn't limited to plain water: **"והוא הדין אם נותן יין וחומץ ושאר משקין במלח"**. Other liquids such as wine or vinegar can be involved. We may therefore have to examine dressings and other food preparations too.

Now I want to ask an unusual *shaylah*: **what about sugar water?**

We think of *ibud* and pickling as things accomplished with salt. But sugar can also preserve food. People preserve fruit, make jam, and prepare foods with very concentrated sugar solutions.

I saw a reference attributed to the **Kaf HaChaim** about *mei sukkar*. If certain mixtures with sugar are treated like saltwater, we have to understand why. Is the problem the specific use of **salt**, or preparing a solution whose function is **to preserve food**?

I am not telling you that ordinary sugar water is prohibited on Shabbos. In fact, I am not familiar with that as the standard *psak*, and I am raising the source as a theoretical question. Perhaps the context is a mixture meant for **preservation**, not a drink someone intends to consume now. We have to read the passage carefully.

Some *Acharonim* discuss whether preservation methods that are common in factories but not normally performed by individuals should affect the *geder*. Others point out that people do preserve fruit at home—think of making jam.

A student mentions lemonade. Yes, but is stirring sugar into a drink for immediate consumption the same act as preserving peaches for long-term storage? Of course we have to distinguish those cases.

The point of the question is the word **"להתקיים"**—to make the food last. The Mishnah Berurah describes *kevashim* as vegetables preserved by salt so that they will keep. What does that teach about other foods and other preservatives?

For practical purposes, I am not introducing an *issur* of making a normal sweetened drink. I want us to recognize how wide the underlying idea of preserving food might extend.

Next let us see the Mishnah Berurah on **why** the saltwater decree applies even though salting foods is not Torah-level *ibud*.

## The Mishnah Berurah: The Reason for the Gezeirah

The Mishnah Berurah (321:9) explains that *kevashim* means vegetables preserved so that they will keep: **"ירק שכובשין אותו כדי להתקיים"**. Since the salt preserves them, the preparation resembles **עיבוד העור**, treating hides with salt.

And he says that even though **"אין עיבוד באוכלין מדאורייתא"**—food is not subject to the Torah prohibition of *ibud*—the *Rabbanan* nevertheless prohibited it in these circumstances.

I found that interesting. We begin with a prohibition that is only *derabbanan*, yet Chazal also restricted preparing something resembling it. You might ask whether this resembles a *gezeirah ligezeirah*. But let us read what the *poskim* actually say before making a technical classification.

The Mishnah Berurah brings the **Tosefes Shabbos**: **"דוקא אם כוונתו לתת לתוך הכבשים"**—the prohibition of making a large amount is directed at intending it for pickled foods. If the purpose is to divide the saltwater among cooked dishes, that source permits even a larger quantity.

But then he brings the **Eliyah Rabbah**, who prohibits the case. He adds that a similar implication appears in the **Meiri**: they allowed only a small amount because **"ניכר שאין עושה רק לצורך שעה"**—it is apparent that it is being made for an immediate need. With a large amount, observers may think it is being prepared for use during the week or for preservation.

Do you hear the *machlokes*? The Tosefes Shabbos places weight on the **real intention**. The Eliyah Rabbah and the passage quoted from the Meiri appear more concerned with **how the preparation looks**.

That makes the question fascinating. If a person prepares a large quantity for an innocent purpose, is the problem nevertheless that **others may infer a prohibited use**? Or is the large quantity itself included in the *takkanah* regardless of what any specific observer thinks?

I want to understand the *lashon* **"יסברו"**—they will suppose. Does this describe the reason for a fixed prohibition, or does it give us grounds to distinguish circumstances?

One could be tempted to say that today nobody who sees a small cup of saltwater assumes somebody is preparing food for long-term preservation. But that's only a **sevara**, and it may not undo a prohibition established by Chazal. We need to be very careful not to turn a question about the reason into a permission against the *poskim*.

The same issue arises if saltwater is prepared for **another food**, perhaps even something that will be eaten at a later meal. The *Magen Avraham*, Mishnah Berurah, Shulchan Aruch HaRav, and others discuss the quantity and timing.

You see, *rabosai*, this isn't simply about what we call a "cup" or a "pot". It is about **purpose, appearance, quantity, concentration, and when the food will be consumed**.

Now let's see how far the argument about present-day practice can be taken—and where it becomes difficult.

## Does Modern Practice Change the Law?

If the reason is that the preparation **resembles preserving food**, a person could ask: who nowadays prepares food in precisely that way? If nobody who saw me making saltwater for an unrelated purpose would think I was pickling vegetables or processing food for the week, perhaps the concern doesn't arise in the same form.

I hear the argument. But we have to be cautious. **The fact that a reason seems less familiar today does not automatically remove a halachic restriction.** That requires a source and a valid *psak*, not merely my impression of what people do in their kitchens.

And, as the *oilam* reminds me, people **do** preserve vegetables today! There are pickles, preserved foods, and many preparations involving salt. We can't make a sweeping assumption that it no longer occurs.

What exactly does **"הרבה"**, a large amount, mean? Is it the physical size of the container? A cup might be a large quantity for a particular use. Or does the ruling also involve the **ratio** of salt to liquid?

Remember that the Mechaber separately prohibits even a small amount where the mixture is **two-thirds salt**. That is about its strength, not simply the size of the vessel. We must not confuse **concentration** with **total quantity**.

So here is the *shaylah* I want to put on the table: someone prepares some saltwater clearly for an immediate purpose other than pickling. Can we rely on the Tosefes Shabbos's explanation of intention? Or does the Eliyah Rabbah's *chumrah*, as brought by the Mishnah Berurah, still prohibit certain quantities?

I can see why someone would want to distinguish a medicinal gargle from saltwater prepared to pickle cucumbers. Yet I do not want my questions here to be cited as the final ruling. Even if we understood the Shabbos food-preservation issue, medicinal preparations can have separate halachos.

The *oilam* is pressing me to say what I think. I am inclined to analyze the words **"לתוך הכבשים"** as important, but the *Mishnah Berurah* has brought more stringent views. We cannot erase them.

Let's return to **the text of the Mechaber and the Mishnah Berurah**, and distinguish the permitted **small quantity** from the prohibited cases. Then we will look at salting the vegetables themselves.

The *yesod* of learning is not that we can always be *matir*. The *yesod* is that we must understand **what precisely was prohibited** before we can know whether a new case belongs to it.

## A Small Amount for Immediate Food Use

We learned the words of the Mechaber: **"אבל יכול לעשות ממנו מעט לתת לתוך התבשיל"**—a small quantity of saltwater may be made for use in a cooked food.

The Mishnah Berurah adds another example: **"או לטבל בהם פתו"**—to dip one's bread in it.

Now I have a *dikduk*. Why do they go out of their way to give us the purpose? Why not just say that **a small quantity is permitted**, finished?

Perhaps the examples tell us that we need an **identifiable immediate use**. On the other hand, perhaps they are merely explaining why someone would make a little saltwater, and the key legal distinction is the amount.

I want to examine whether it matters if the food is for **this seudah** or **a later seudah**. Some sources seem to restrict preparation to the meal at hand, while the Mishnah Berurah's wording in the subsequent discussion may permit certain uses for another meal as well. The **Shulchan Aruch HaRav** is more explicit about limits on preparation for a later meal.

We should not treat all those statements as if they addressed exactly the same case. Preparing the **saltwater mixture** and salting **food pieces** are different sections of this *siman*.

The Mishnah Berurah discusses putting salt on **roasted meat or fish**, and other cases where salt is used for taste rather than preservation. Those examples force us to ask whether the food's nature, the intention to preserve it, and the timing of eating all make a difference.

And someone asks about other liquids, like vinegar. Correct; we saw that the Mishnah Berurah's discussion of **mei melach** also involves salt with other liquids.

So we must keep our categories clear. We have a strong concentration—two-thirds salt—which has its own restriction. We have a large quantity of ordinary saltwater, and the question of what it is being prepared for. And we have smaller quantities for foods that will be eaten.

Don't rush to collapse all of these into one phrase, "You're allowed to make saltwater" or "You're not allowed." That's precisely why we're learning inside.

Now I want to move from **mei melach** to **melach itself**. What happens when you place salt directly on cucumbers, radishes, onions, or a salad?

This is where the *halachah* will become especially relevant to everyone's Shabbos table.

## Salting the Vegetables Themselves: Tznon, Onions, and Cucumbers

Now let's turn from saltwater to **placing salt directly on food**. In Orach Chaim 321:3 the Mechaber says:

**"אסור למלוח חתיכות צנון ד' או ה' ביחד מפני שנראה ככובש כבשים ... אלא מטבל כל אחת לבדה ואוכלה, אבל ביצים מותר למלחן."**

You may not salt four or five pieces of radish together because it resembles pickling, which Chazal prohibited as resembling cooking. Instead, you dip each piece by itself and eat it. Eggs are different because they are not ordinarily pickled in that way.

The **Mishnah Berurah 321:13** explains that the discussion includes other foods whose nature is affected by salting, such as **onions, garlic, and raw cucumbers**. He also brings the principle that if a food is **not ordinarily pickled**, there may be no such concern.

This raises two questions. First, which foods count as foods ordinarily pickled? Second, does it matter whether the salt actually remains on the food long enough to change it?

One piece dipped in salt and immediately eaten is not the same as putting five pieces in a bowl with salt and waiting. When food is left to absorb salt, change texture, and release moisture, it begins to resemble a preserving process. The Mishnah Berurah distinguishes salting several pieces at once from dipping and eating them separately.

And the Mechaber writes that the problem is **"נראה ככובש כבשים"**—it **looks like pickling**. He does not say that a whole cucumber must literally become a pickle during the few minutes of Shabbos! It is the resemblance and the kind of action that matter.

But now, *rabosai*, tell me: **what about our salads?**

People pickle cucumbers, tomatoes, carrots, cabbage. You can walk into a store and see all of these preserved. If the rule depends on what people pickle, and people pickle so many vegetables, why should we assume that salting vegetables in a salad is automatically permitted?

One might say that a **regular freshly prepared salad** is not a pickling mixture. That may be an important distinction. But we must understand it from the *poskim*, rather than simply say nobody pickles those foods.

The Mishnah Berurah has an especially interesting passage about **shlatin**, salad greens. Let's read it carefully, because it is very close to the way food is prepared at home.

I want you to see the difference between **salting vegetables so that they sit and release liquid** and **seasoning a salad that will be eaten immediately**. That distinction may be crucial.

## The Mishnah Berurah's Example of "Shlatin"

The Mishnah Berurah (321:14) quotes a particular preparation of salad:

**"ובקצת מקומות עושין ירק שקורין שלאטי״ן, ומולחין הירק בפני עצמו תחילה ומשהין אותו כך, ומסננין המים שיוצאין ממנו, ואחר כך מערבין אותו עם שמן זית וחומץ."**

In some places they prepare a vegetable called *shlatin*: they salt the greens separately, let them stand, strain out the water that comes from them, and afterward mix them with olive oil and vinegar.

The Mishnah Berurah calls that **"איסור גמור"**, a definite prohibition, because leaving the vegetable in salt until it absorbs the effect of the salt looks much more like processing or preserving food.

Now, tell me: **does that describe the salad people prepare today?**

Usually, a person cuts vegetables, adds seasonings and dressing, mixes them, and serves them. He does not necessarily leave the greens in salt to sweat, then strain out the liquid, and only later add oil and vinegar. That extra stage of leaving the vegetables in salt may be the critical factor.

Somebody suggests a preparation similar to pickled greens or *chav*. Perhaps that is the kind of process Chazal and the *poskim* had in mind. But that's only an attempt to understand the historical food; I have not proved that identification.

Still, there is a problem. If you have pieces of raw **cucumber** in a salad, and the Mishnah Berurah included cucumbers among foods that may be pickled, why may you sprinkle salt over the whole bowl?

You cannot answer simply by saying the salad is cut up. The same vegetable can be sliced or pickled in different forms. You have to understand whether the method is the **derech of pickling**.

And another difference may matter: what if the salad contains **oil or vinegar**, and what if those ingredients are added **immediately** rather than after the vegetables have soaked in salt?

The Mishnah Berurah says in the same paragraph that where radish is chopped, salted, and **immediately mixed with vinegar and other ingredients**, it does not resemble processing in the same way, because it is **not left alone to sweat**. And he writes that immediate addition of **oil** is even more significant, because oil weakens the action of the salt.

Do you hear? It may not be simply the presence of salt that defines the prohibited act. **How it is combined with the other ingredients, and how long it is left,** can determine whether the process resembles pickling.

That brings us to the *psak* attributed to **Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach** concerning sliced vegetables and the ordinary methods of pickling. I want to test the *sevara* carefully.

## Rav Shlomo Zalman and the Way Vegetables Are Pickled

There is a comment brought in **Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasah, chapter 11, note 6**, attributed to **Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach** about salting cut vegetables. The reasoning considers **the usual way the vegetable is pickled**.

If it isn't the practice to pickle a vegetable **in the cut form in which it is being served**, perhaps salting those pieces for immediate eating doesn't resemble *kovesh kevashim*.

But let me ask you a *kashya*, *rabosai*. Today there are pickle spears, pickle chips, and other vegetables preserved in pieces! Are they necessarily pickled whole and then sliced, or are some varieties sliced first and preserved afterward? That is a factual question. We should not build the entire *heter* on an assumption about food manufacturing without knowing the practice.

And when we make a salad, some vegetables are left with the peel, some are chopped, and some are sliced. Does the ordinary way of preparing that particular food as a pickle match what we are doing in the salad?

A *talmid* suggests a further distinction: a few pieces of cucumber are part of a **mixed salad**, not a standalone preparation for pickling cucumbers. Perhaps their role within the salad changes the appearance of the action. That's an interesting *sevara*, though again it needs a *makor*.

I don't want to say too quickly that everything is permitted just because the pieces are small. We must understand exactly which cases Rav Shlomo Zalman discussed and which conditions apply.

## Adding Oil or Vinegar

Let's go back to **Mishnah Berurah 321:14**. It discusses chopped radish that is salted and then **immediately** combined with vinegar. The concern is reduced because the vegetables are **not left in the salt alone to sweat**. It continues: **"וכל שכן אם שופכין שם שמן תיכף שהשמן מחליש כח המלח"**—all the more so if oil is poured in immediately, since the oil weakens the salt's effect.

That's a very important *nekudah*. Perhaps the way to avoid resembling pickling is to make the mixture part of a prepared salad **immediately**, rather than leaving the salted vegetables standing by themselves.

But what is the correct order? Do we have to put in the oil before the salt, or is it enough to add it at once after the salt? The Mishnah Berurah's words about the vegetables differ from his separate discussion of **mixing strong saltwater**. We must not transfer the rules from one case to another carelessly.

I want to read both passages inside and compare them. Some authorities recommend adding oil or vinegar immediately, and one can understand why: you are preparing a food to eat, not preserving vegetables.

But I am not prepared to issue a broad *heter* for every salad without checking the type of vegetable and how it is being prepared. **The sugya is more nuanced than that**.

The practical question is now very clear. If someone wants to salt a salad on Shabbos, how should he combine the salt, oil, and vinegar so the process does not resemble *ibud* or *kevishah*? Let's follow the *lashon* rather than rely on what people ordinarily do without thinking.

## Salting Salad on Shabbos: The Practical Question

Now, *rabosai*, think of what happens at the Shabbos table. A person cuts cucumbers and tomatoes, places them in a bowl, and reaches for the salt. Nobody thinks twice. But our *sugya* asks whether certain vegetables may be salted **together**, even for immediate eating, when salting resembles preparation for pickling.

We have seen more than one approach. **Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's** reported reasoning emphasizes that the ordinary method of pickling the particular vegetable may differ from preparing it as part of a fresh salad. The **Mishnah Berurah** emphasizes the distinction between allowing the salt to work on the vegetables by themselves and adding **vinegar, oil, and other ingredients immediately**.

So perhaps a fresh salad that is promptly mixed with oil or vinegar for eating is different from salting vegetables and leaving them to sit until they release water. That is the direction of the sources we learned.

But pay attention: **this is not a license to salt vegetables and leave them to pickle on Shabbos**. Nor do I want you to assume that adding oil at any later time automatically repairs a prohibited act. We must establish when and how the ingredients were combined.

Somebody asks: should the oil be added before the salt? Others understand the Mishnah Berurah as permitting an immediate addition afterward. We need to distinguish this paragraph about vegetables from the earlier law of preparing **mei melach**, where the order of adding water, salt, and oil may also be significant.

I want you to take the *sugya* seriously precisely because it is so common. People prepare salad every Shabbos. If there is a *chashash*, we need to know the proper method. If a *posek* has a sound *heter*, we should understand it.

## Half-Sour Pickles Left in Their Brine

Let me end with another *shaylah*, and perhaps we'll return to it at a later *shiur*.

What about **half-sour pickles**? Sometimes they are still developing their flavor in the brine. You take one out of the jar and later consider placing it back in the brine, where it may continue pickling.

If the food can continue to change through soaking, we have to ask whether returning it is itself an act of **kovesh kevashim**. Is the pickle already finished, or is the brine still actively transforming it? Does the duration matter? These are the facts a *posek* would have to examine.

I remember keeping half-sour pickles longer and finding their taste changing from day to day. That is why the question occurs to me. It is not merely theoretical: **if the food continues to pickle, what does that mean for Shabbos?**

We haven't finished the relevant *mareh mekomos*, and I am not settling the case here. I wanted to leave you with another practical application of what we learned.

So let us review the *yesodim*. We began with **preparing saltwater** and its resemblance to *ibud*. Then we considered **salting several pieces of vegetables**, which may look like pickling. And finally we saw the importance of **the nature of the food, the method of preparation, the amount of time it stands in salt, and the addition of oil or vinegar**.

When you learn a *sugya* carefully, you cannot stop at saying, "Everybody does this," or "I heard it's asur." You must understand the **reason** and the **geder**, and then examine the practical case with a proper *posek*.

*B'ezras Hashem*, we can continue to learn the details at another opportunity.

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