Hilchos Refuah on Shabbos: Medicinal Drinks, Vitamins, and the Gezeirah of Shechikas Samemanim

Transcript

Chafalef. Sif yud zayin. Mutar la'asos yein u'melin. Don't know exactly what it is, but it says here what it is: shehu yayin yashan, dvash u'pilpelin. That's a concoction of these ingredients, mipnei shehu l'shtiyah, because it's a drink. Now, mistama it has refuah components; otherwise, it wouldn't be a discussion, right? Obviously, it's like tea with honey, you know, you use it for sore throats, but l'maaseh it's meant l'shtiyah. Ve'ein osin al untis shehu yayin yashan, u'mayim, tzlulim v'shemen afarsemon. That's a different type of a concoction drink, because that's called l'refuah, shehu l'refuah. So let's see the Mishnah Berurah. Yeah, shayach ... shechikas samanim, shayach if you're not a meikel. So let's see the Mishnah Berurah here. Yanu mulin, hainu l'arvon, that's the making, l'ochlan kemo shehein. Aval litrof osin, yafeh l'sanena, this is already a different sugya, that toirech yoser v'umnus gedolah, v'tikun, v'tikun gadol hu zeh, k'mo l'il b'chardal, d'asar litrof. Kosav Maril, so this is eino l'meikel. Okay, I guess it's something which is very hard to make, so it becomes an umnus and a tikun. So a professional drink, which you have to be toireach and mesanen, so you can't make it. How would I apply it today? I don't know. What kind of a drink that would have to be such a... You know, there's a special drink, yeah. When I was a little boy, they used to make something called gogol mogol. You know what gogol mogol is? You ever heard of it? Gogol mogol. It's an extra straw. An extra straw, they used to drink it, gogol mogol. Gogol mogol? It tasted like gogol mogol, but it was... Gogol mogol. He knows, he knows, he knows. No, you drank it. What it was, it was egg. With something. You have to drink gogol mogol. If you're really cold, with something. But it's with egg. It's with egg, raw egg. They mix the raw egg. It could be, it's this. Like, that's what I'm trying to think. Gogol mogol. Yeah. I'm happy you're here, otherwise they wouldn't believe me that I make it up. Gogol mogol. When we were kids, they forced us to drink this stuff. Yeah, because that is more. So maybe you wouldn't be allowed to make it on Shabbos. All right. Kasav Maril, aser la'asos kida l'techomes, la'asos tebel, beitzim koshin im pitrizilin b'chometz, d'dami l'hilmi, hu mei melach, because it's close to mei melach. I don't know the cases exactly. Anyways, there's a very important chelek of the halacha, which is that anything which is l'shtiya is mutar, and anything which is l'refuah is asur, and that's what we're going to discuss tonight. Says the Mishnah Berurah: shehu l'refuah. V'chol davar shehu mishum refuah, asru Chazal la'asok gezeirah mishum shchikas samemanim, because they used to make in the houses. And I stress this because there's a tzad we're going to learn a mitzvah Hashem from Gedolei Acharonim, including the Cheshek Shlomo. And don't think that it's stam a vilde zacher, but Yasher brings it down in the teshuvahs k'seidah, that there's no problem today because we don't make our medicines at home. Who makes medicine at home, you know? In the olden days there was something called shchikas ha-memanim, and the shchikas ha-memanim is an important klal that you have to know, that shchikas ha-memanim for the cheshek Shlomo, it's a very important thing. And fakert, I once asked Rav David. Rav David told me that the yeshiva Zatzal never brought it in the teshuvahs. The yeshiva Zatzal never, since ki'ilu p'sidin hold it. There's a hachra'ah today among the poskim—I know I'm skipping a little bit, I'm, like, fast-forwarding, but it's not a problem—that there's a hachra'ah in the poskim that today the whole sugya of shchikas ha-memanim doesn't apply, because nobody does memanim in his house. Who's going to go to his kitchen and start making medicines? So what they do is, it's made pharmaceutically, it's made chemically in a... So therefore there's no... You were right, by the way. It was the Gerer Rebbe. He got the yeshiv from Levi, but he gave it to the Gerer Rebbe. I made a mistake. Okay. Al kol panim, he got it from the Lubavitcher and gave it to him, but he gave it to him.

Okay, so shrikas ha-memanim, according to the Cheshek Shlomo, and we're assuming to see a brand new sugya. This is Yud Zayin, se'if Yud Zayin of siman Chaf Aleph. It's brand new, fresh. All right, that's good. That there's a halacha, you no millin, you're allowed to make on Shabbos, but— Which is what? This is some kind of a drink that's more l'shtiya. Aluntis. Gugglemuggle. Yeah, it's a type of drink that— You'll learn that gemara. Okay, and aluntis is something which is more l'refuah, so therefore becomes asur. Okay. Says the Mishnah Berurah, shehu l'refuah, v'chol davar shehu l'refuah asur mishum gezeiras shchikas samemanim. V'lachein, afilu im hayah asui me'erev Shabbos, even if you did do it erev Shabbos, it's still asur l'shtos. You wouldn't be allowed to drink it. The grinding is the problem of tochen. So we spoke that this, the Acharonim already from the Cheshek Shlomo, that bizman hazeh there's no gezeiras shchikas samemanim bichlal, because nobody does. Nobody does. So what's the tzad hafuch? Tzad hafuch is that once the Chacham assered it, they assered it. So it's not for us to come and say that the gezeirah doesn't apply. We'll soon see how it's nogea, how to apply it, al kol panim. We're learning here that when it's l'refuah it's asur; when it's l'shtiya it's mutar. Okay. If you look at the Biur Halacha, he adds to the shehu l'refuah. You see, shehu l'refuah, רצונו לומר שאינו מאכל בריאים. Now, ma'achal briyim means healthy people eat it, ma'achal of briyim, of healthy people. שהוא אסור רק לצנן לאדם מחום בית המרחץ. It's meant just to make a person cool, cool him off like a lemonade. A hot day. So this is like a lemonade on a hot day, and therefore it's mutar, okay? Refuah. I'm sorry, and therefore it's aser, excuse me, shehu l'refuah, okay? Reb Shlomo Zalman, Bach makes a gevaldige diyuk here. The Shulchan Aruch says that anything which is l'refuah is no good. Mashma, if it's not l'refuah, then it'll be okay. Maichel briyim is the other extreme. What happens if it's not l'refuah, but it's not maichel briyim, which means normal people don't eat it, a healthy person is not going to eat it, but at the same time it's not l'refuah. Vitamins. Vitamins is one of the sugyas we're going to get to. That's where the sugya is. So how are you machria? says the Biur Halacha, that it's not only shehu l'refuah, retzono lomar she'eino maichel briyim. It doesn't have to be that it's refuah to be aser. The only thing is, it has to be maichel briyim to be mutar. So you see that it's not stam that anything which is l'refuah is aser, anything which is not l'refuah is mutar. So this is the diyuk Reb Shlomo Zalman makes. The diyuk—what? The Shulchan Aruch is mashma that anything which is l'refuah is aser. The Biur Halacha says more, that it's not maichel briyim. It's not enough that it's just not l'refuah. Okay, go, read. Aval b'Shulchan Aruch kasav, the first piece. Shulchan Aruch aser is the case that shelo l'tzorech is the case of eino maichel briyim? This is an example of—an example of eino maichel briyim. Right. It's not medicine. Right, but it's not just something that you take on a normal—take on a normal. Right, a normal person isn't going taking this. Why not? Because he's—why would he take it? It's not breakfast, lunch, and supper. He's taking it because he got hot from a situation, and therefore he needs to cool down. No, there's a normal person won't take it without a situation. A situation. It's a situational food. There's a reason why a person is taking it, because of a situation. Okay, go ahead, read. Okay, that's his right. Okay, that's the example. Okay, wait, wait. No, no, because we're talking about on a hot day and you're drinking lemonade. No, no, because fever and you're really shvach. Okay, so your case is a case which is regular maichel, where it could be you're mechaven l'refuah. That we're going to learn is also. I don't even call that mechaven l'refuah. Whatever, but this is different. Right. This is a case where it's taken only. Being hot on a hot day could be the normal situation. We're talking about someone that... All right, all right. It shows on the side it sounds like it was like a shtickel fever, like a shtickel shvach. Shvach. Not just like, yeah, I'm hot, so I'm taking something to make it cool. Right, right, right. It's situational. I thought it was like, you're just hot, you know, you want to... It's situational.

You know how I would say, you know what my example would be? When a person has a stomachache and he drinks chamomile tea. Peppermint tea. They give peppermint tea for stomachaches. The stomach hurts you, you drink peppermint tea, all right? So this is taken for what? The only thing is that our people drink it regularly also, so that we're going to have to discuss. Okay. What's the nafkamina? The nafkamina is, even though there's no machlo. But that's the point. You're mechaven l'refuah is one issue, but here it's usually taken to take down the chom of the beis hamerchatz. It's like a fever, and therefore, even though it's not machlo, it's not machlo, but it's still not called ma'achal bri'im. So as Rav Shlomo Zalman, it's not so much that anything which is not refuah, but anything which is not ma'achal bri'im, v'ert asur. Lefizeh, he wants to say, a person wants to take caffeine pills, right? Caffeine pills is not choleh, you're not sick, not a machlah. You just want to get rid of the fact that you're tired. Says Rav Shlomo Zalman that l'choira it should be asur. Okay, read it. That's where he goes. He speaks about the next thing, the kadurim. Yeah? No? Antike. Whatever. No dose, and also to put him to sleep. Slowly, slowly, slowly. So the first thing is that we have a halacha that it doesn't have to be a medicine, even if it's to take away a situation. Slowly, I'm going to talk. You know what? I'll let you all get it all out of your system, all your cases, and then I'm going to come and show you each case, how it's dealt with back into the Shulchan Aruch. Go ahead. What else do you have? Diet pills, what else do you have? Fiber pills, what else? No, no, no, just, what's it called? Caffeine. No, no, no, no, the vitamins. Ah, that's a big sugya. Okay, so we're going to talk about vitamins. David, many years, many times about vitamins, huh? I must be drinking the vitamin. Give me a list of vitamins every day. Okay, so we're going to discuss all the cases. Ready? All the cases. Good? Everybody got their case? Everybody got their questions out? Okay. Okay, so let's begin with caffeine pills. Reb Shlomo Zalman says it's aser. Yeah, I'm not going to argue with Reb Shlomo Zalman. What about to go to sleep pills? He also says. On the bottom, though, he says that this is not what he wrote later on. What does he write later on? Why? If you have a lot of tzaar, no? You're choleh, you're nofel l'mishkav. What do you want? You got guys, ois mench, I can't shlafen. What do you want from the guy? I would say, that's a bigger choleh than stam because you're sleepy. That's what he's trying to say. So he's saying it's mutar. This k'shichas ha'mamonim is mutar when it's taka choleh. It's only mutar, it's aser on a meichush, and it's mutar on a choleh. If you're noifel l'mishkav, you're allowed to take aspirins, you're allowed to take medicines. He can't fall asleep, not noifel l'mishkav. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew that someone's going to say. You're not noifel l'mishkav, you're just not working. Means it's a onesh, that's a tzaar. Okay. Yeah, so maybe someone could survive by not having tzaar by sleeping, so maybe he shouldn't take sleeping pills. That's what he means here. If he has a lot of tzaar from it, so then a chanami it's taka mutar. So what does he mean here? You don't have a lot of tzaar. So what did the Cheshik Shlomo say, that nowadays you don't have ... medicines? So that's what many acharonim say, that, yeah. It's a cheshik shleima. Let me show you something very interesting, okay? You know what? Forget the seder of today's shiur. You'll be mochel me, I'm very tired, very dizzy, okay? So you forget the seder. I'm sorry. No, it's too much on my head today. It was a hard day, very hard day. No, I took a coffee. That's why I think it's making me dizzy. It's too much for me today. It's time to sleep. According to the Cheshik Shlomo, we're going to learn this, that you're allowed to take medicine if you...

Start taking the medicine Erev Shabbos. We're going to learn this in the next seif. Let's say you have to take a seven-day medicine. So what are you going to do? You have to take this medicine on Shabbos. So we're going to learn, Rav Moshe holds you're not to take such medicines unless you're tacha really sick, and an antibiotic you must take. But if you're not really sick, yeshivos ... you don't take any medicine that gets over Shabbos. Reb Shlomo Zalman, we're going to learn, says that a seven-day medicine is mutar. We're going to learn this. The Cheshek Shlomo ... we'll soon see, we'll soon see vitamins, okay, we'll soon see. Good. So the Cheshek Shlomo says a chiddush that if I start Erev Shabbos, I'm allowed. And it's based—we're going to learn this later in the next seif, we're going to get to it tonight. Cheshek Shlomo says, bifrat b'zman hazeh, there's no problem of shchikas samanim anyway, because there's no—who makes this medicine in the house? It's all made professionally. So l'maaseh, Reb Elyashiv brings down this Cheshek Shlomo halacha, that Erev Shabbos, any medicine that you start from Erev Shabbos is mutar. Does he mean that he agrees to the whole shtikel of the Cheshek Shlomo? I don't know. The Cheshek Shlomo himself would say you could take any medicine? Yes. Or it's just a bifrat, like a sniff towards it? No. He doesn't say it l'chatchila. If I start on Shabbos, mutar. Because in this halacha of Erev Shabbos, he says that as a bifrat. But he would say on a medicine I'm taking a one-time thing on Shabbos, if you have to take a one-time thing on Shabbos, he's not just saying this as a bifrat, like once I agree ... It's brought down, the Beis Shabbos ... it's very shayach. Shar mitzuyan, the halacha handles it. I think the acharonim want to handle it with the ... I think the teshuvah sefarim pasken this, that today there's no shchikas samanim. L'maaseh, I told you, Rav David told me that in all Rav Moshe's teshuvos, that's what he told me, in all the yeshiva's teshuvos. He doesn't mention it. Kanirei, he doesn't hold of it. Kanirei doesn't hold of this, this nekudah that there's no gezeirah shichas... Otherwise he would have been mefael in it, he would have mentioned it. There's no mention. There's many, many teshuvos about medicine on Shabbos. Okay, it's good to know, because let's say you're a drop dyspeptic, am I at this stage a naifel mishkav. Now you want me to say something very controversial? You want me to say something very controversial? All right. My father uses it. When somebody doesn't feel well, there's a shiur in Hilchos Shabbos, I don't have the sefarim at home. You'll look it up tomorrow in yeshiva, the Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa, Shaar Beis, they all bring this. Yeah, Rav... the heintige poskim, the last twenty, thirty years poskim, some of the gedolei poskim, they use it. It's used. It's used definitely, you know, when it's iffy. There's no shichas samimonim anyway. Okay, now, so the shailah is the caffeine pill. So Reb Shlomo Zalman says caffeine pill, problem, yeah? Caffeine pill problem. Okay. How about a diet pill? So the truth is, so the truth is, if a guy has to be on a diet because it's a sakana for him, the doctor told him that he's going to drop dead if he doesn't go on a diet, so that, you could say that it's pikuach nefesh, yeah, pikuach nefesh. But let's say it's not. Let's say a woman. You know, the women, they want to be on diets, so they take diet pills, yeah? So I would say like this: there's two types of diet pills. There are diet pills which chemically take away the appetite, and then there's diet pills which have in it fruits and vegetables that fill you up, like give you a fullness. The stomach, the diet pills that make you feel full, that, the stomach you could be meikel on. It's a maichel briah, like a vitamin, like a vitamin, which the Rosh Yeshiva holds you're allowed to take vitamins on Shabbos, which we'll get to in two minutes. I tell you, whenever it's for a refuah, there's nothing what to talk about. Take it on Shabbos and then take it on Shabbos. There's nothing what to talk about. When it's the doctor tells you that you need it for a refuah, there's nothing what to talk about. The shaylah is something which is not mamash l'refuah. Blood pressure medicine, you take on Shabbos. For the headache, you need Tylenol. That's where you start clarifying. Who? So we'll discuss vitamins. Give me a minute. Let's go slowly. Let's go one step at a time. That something which is a medicine, which alters, chemically alters, that's medicine. Something which is a supplement, which means, you know, a lot of the times you have these diet pills, they have in it a fiber, and fiber makes you feel full, and when you feel full, so that's a fiber. And we're going to learn about fiber is a maichel briah, okay? Now, how about if a person wants to take coffee, he wants to take a— so it's a shtiyah. That's shtiyah.

That's definitely shtiyah, right? The shaylah would be if let's say you just take a little bit coffee, like I do, just the caffeine, you know, you put a— no, just the coffee. You're not drinking, you're just drinking coffee. So it's not in a pill form. What would Reb Shlomo Zalman say about this? Not a pill. You're taking a cup of coffee, but it's not a cup of coffee, it's just— you put a half ounce of water and then the rest coffee. So the emes is, in Tsarfas and the rest of the world, you ever see the coffee, I don't know if you know, they drink tiny cups of black coffee like this. But it's a tiny— okay, achveis, I don't know. Okay, so let's learn a shtikel Mishnah Berurah here, and let's see what your ta'ina. Go ahead, say, go ahead, Reb Chaim, say the Mishnah Berurah. Yud ches. Let's see Yud ches. First, the Mechaber: Ein shoirin es hachalotis, loi b'poishrim v'loi b'tzonenim, shederech l'shoisah l'refuah, aval noisnoi l'soich hachometz u'metabel boi, pitoi. Why? Because you're putting it into chometz and you're being metabel pitoi. Says the Mishnah Berurah, Yud ches, go ahead, Reb Chaim, read. L'shoisah l'refuah, sheshoisin mehashriyah l'yukra d'liba. It has to do with the heart. It's something that helps the heart, okay? L'shoisah, tzarich loimar l'shtoisah, but taam, d'zeh maichal k'tzas briyim, v'loi minker shehu l'refuah. Okay, so it's somewhere in the middle. So what would you call the caffeine? The little caffeine in the cup. Just a little bit of caffeine in the cup, huh? People that drink it. People drink, yeah, but do they drink that little bit amount? You don't see what I'm trying to say. No one's gonna drink a full cup. It's gonna take too long to drink a full cup of, obviously. I had a friend. They do that. You don't have a friend. I do that. That's— first of all, see, all right. Because the caffeine, the [unclear], is refuah. Now I'm getting up. Yeah, but that's— maybe that's— he's one. Maybe. That's not. Could you give him the shulchan? That's called refuah. Why is that called—? Read it. Watch it. If you drink coffee, that's not refuah. It's not. If I drink it like this, then that's refuah. The shaylah is, is it the cheftza? The cheftza of coffee. So he's not getting the hana'ah. This is mutar. But if you look at every situation, is this what—? Could you say it over again? I feel bad because this shiur is a beautiful shiur. I don't want to hear that. No, I don't want to listen to it. Go ahead, go ahead, say it again. I don't hear that sad, because you're doing it in a meshunahdike way that makes it not what Prim— You're not drinking coffee. That's called drinking coffee. How do we look at this? How do we look at this? Caffeine— No, caffeine. Caffeine tamnished. Why not? That's what he says. I understand. I'm asking, I understand. Yeah, because it's not for eating. That's not eating. That's— hey, give a guess. It's not the machal Briim. It's the machal Briim. I get hear what he's saying. Caffeine pill— it's not the food. It's a pill. This coffee is not— it's not in the refuah section. It's in the drink section. Okay, so that's... So you are hearing my... I'm not thirsty. I need caffeine. ... Okay, listen carefully. I'm learning with you gevaldig. Yeah, again. From Shulchan Aruch is mashma that anything which is refuah, strictly refuah. Says Reb Shlomo Zalman, you're not learning good. It's not about refuah; it's about maichel briim, and that's this biur halacha. Says Reb Shlomo Zalman, included in that is caffeine pills, mitzlafin pills, okay? So what should I do? It's not my fault that the Gedolim say this. I can't sit around. What should I do? An almaleh man eats caffeine pills. He eats caffeine pills. You eat caffeine pills. You're tired, you take caffeine to stay up, so that's medicine. They're very... caffeine pills. I'll take a sandwich, a sandwich. So that's medicine. What's kalei tzom? It's still, no? Everyone takes it. Everyone takes it. I once sent Reb Chaim Kanievsky a shaila, so mimeila, caffeine pill. You remember this? I told this to you. I have to show it. I have the nusach of Reb Chaim.

I once asked Reb Chaim if you're allowed to take caffeine pills on a taanis, to swallow them like this, on the taanis. So he wrote me back, Eineni yodea ma zeh. What is this? I wrote caffeine pills in Hebrew and then in English, and I explained him, for sheina of kedurim. He wrote me back, Eineni yodea ma zeh. What is this? I don't know. I don't know. What, you want to ask? He answers a hundred things a day, a hundred letters a day. You want to ask somebody. He saw the question. He didn't know what it was. He wrote me back, Eineni yodea ma zeh. He wrote the name? Yeah, sure. Why didn't he ask about something? He has to go ask my uncle what I meant in the letter? I don't know. Maybe you don't... Reb Chaim gives you ten minutes a day. He gives you five minutes to answer, and then whatever. If he understands the question, fine, fine. That's it. It is what it is. Two-word answer. Two-word answer. Ken a loin, Eineni yodea ma zeh. Eineni. Eineni. Four Eineni. Okay, so, bring him the ... album, you hear? Caffeine pills is a problem, okay. Now, to drink coffee to stay up, that's a shtia. That's your maskana. That everybody agrees with. That's called shtia. My question is, where you just take the caffeine in a way that it's not a shtia. There'll be drink. You don't take a full spoon of coffee and put a little bit of water and then drink it. That's not what you... It's bitter. It's not drinkable. So that you're doing vaiter, but it's not done as a pill, but it's done in derech shtia. So what do you say? So this is what I'm saying over here. Here. L'shtoiso vatam... read, nu, Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan ayin aleph, v'loy minkei milsa. Shei, min k'mincha shehu l'refuah. So maybe it's not minker. I don't know. I don't know. I'm a safek. I'm a safek. I'm a safek. I'm a safek. It's a good she'eilah. Not freg it to b'megas time. I don't know. To be honest, when I was talking about someone that has some sort of issue. What issue? Kadurim for to stay up. What kind of issue? What do you need? I mean, you're saying that the guy is not normally tired. I mean, if he doesn't—he has waking problems, whatever it is. Forget about waking problems. He says he wakes up from morning, he's so tired. He says, ... mutar. ... mutar. Look at the ... That's what's aser. Yeah. ... is a big issue. It's a ... I don't know. It's not so pashut. Okay. Now let's go to the— These pills are made for people that have such a ... So even if you're taking— I don't understand this. Why? It looks ... right? The guy's gonna look inside. So that's, I don't know. I don't know. But you see, you see clearly, like minker, yeah, minker, you see. Again, so how do you read this Mishnah? My reason to say this shit is to point out the ... I don't know. You have the right to hold differently. I feel it's a good sevara. I feel that if you take pills, ... if you take regular coffee, that's stam mutar, because you're allowed to drink it. Even if kavanaso—we're gonna learn this in the biur halachah—even if kavanaso... See, the next one here: v'im hu b'makom she'ein minin gri'im klal, right? Mashma me'ramdah asur. Okay? Says the Biur Halacha. Nu, read the Biur Halacha, shtech l'shrois l'refuah. Nu, b'Gemara, go ahead. The Gemara says, טעם שלי עסק דשרויסה בחול. V'nafka mina, even if miskaven b'shiyaser l'shtiya b'alma, asur mi'tam zeh. Pitoi, v'ein kan heker shehu l'refuah, shekol ha'shana adam noheg b'tivo. U'mashma zeh, d'afilu miskaven l'refuah gam... You saw that line? That's a very important line, okay? We're gonna get to this in a minute. So that Biur Halacha says, that's the Biur Halacha, pitoi. Pitoi is a big Biur Halacha, rabosai. It's unassuming. Read pitoi, Biur Halacha pitoi. It's a very big yesod, yeah? Okay. So what about vitamins? Vitamins, vitamins, vitamins. So Shmiras Shabbos, chelek gimmel, siman nun daled says, vitamins is a maichel. Shmiras Shabbos, what are you talking about? Famous teshuvah from Rav Moshe. Vitamins, vitamins. Some people eat for breakfast. Some people come with a whole box, a whole row. And they say, zeh b'mchalifos, zeh temurosi. This instead of breakfast, instead of dessert. ... You want to take ... The kitzur, this is our shiva's teshuvah.

You know what's good to prevent yene machlah? Nish ton a veges. That's what prevents yene machlah. Okay, listen. Ah, yaz alche shtusim, yaz alche shtusim. Reb Shia Pentsty was Mr. Vitamins, yeah? Got a heart attack, and two years later got a cancer. I asked him—oh, he answered me—I asked him, he said, Can you imagine? If I didn't, I would have never made it, he tells me. Ah, the kidsa vitamins. Shiva's at tzahl health, vitamins are muttar on Shabbos. Why? It's called maichel, maichel, maichel, maichel, maichel bri. Shiva held all the vitamins are muttar. Okay. Now, I asked Reb Dovid a kasha. I have a stira in Yoreh Deah. No, I hold—Reb Shlomo Zalman said himself, Reb Shlomo Zalman says clearly that you're not allowed to take vitamins on Shabbos. You don't have to bring it; it's b'furush in the sefer. Because of that same day... it's not maichel bri. Not maichel bri. Yeah. Of course. Iron Moshe. Iron Moshe. So that's a good kasha, no? Iron Moshe. It's a very shtarke kasha, Iron Moshe. Are you allowed? So let me tell you what I hold afterwards. But first let's get the information, okay? Let's get the information. So I went to ask Reb Dovid. I said, Rosh Yeshiva, I don't understand. Shiva was soiser himself. On one hand he tells me vitamins is muttar on Shabbos, maichel bri. How about treifa vitamins? Are you allowed to eat treifa vitamins? So Rosh Yeshiva says you're allowed to have. That's Yoreh Deah, chelek beis, because it's not a maichel, says the Chasdira. No, no, you didn't read the teshuva right. Didn't read it right. It's not called derech achilah. It's not ... swallowing. It's the swallowing of the pill. It's not the pill; it's the way you swallow the pill. So a teshuvah one would be a problem even without the flavor. Yeah, even without the flavor. Unless you say that without flavor it's also chasar derech achilah. That's what I shtel this to. Depends. The swallow—it's not taken derech achilah. Treifa meat, you're allowed to take treifa meat. Why isn't that derabbanan? Yeah, refuah, you need it, whatever the chizuk is. No, it is ma'achal, but it's not derech achilah. That's what ... Someone can't just take stuff. Afen hak. You know, I asked, they didn't even blink a second. They didn't read the ... I saw that he worked on it. This is obviously ... he worked on it. He said, You didn't read the ... Derech achilah is established, but ma'achal is ... unless nothing to do with the other. So, hachanami, so let's say you chew it. The only thing you say could be when there's no flavor and you chew something. Or it's a bad flavor. Ah, so this is where I had a very big interesting nafka mina. It's ma'achal; it's not derech achilah, even though this is the only way to take it, this particular ma'achal. Correct, but it's not a ma'achal. No, it is a ma'achal. I'm saying, but it's not derech achilah. Even though this is the only way—right, so what are you doing? You're making a lamdishe shtikel Torah out of it. Okay. It's called an achilah. I'm saying it's called achilah. I just had a Tosafos in Avodah Zarah that reicha is k'shtiyah, even though it's not neheneh because it's machmas to the guf. Tachlifei beis abliya. Tachlifei beis abliya. That's Gemara Kesubos. Daf lamed. Tachlifei beis abliya. So, but that's not his form. Why? That's not his form. There's no achilah, because it's right beis abliya, there's no achilah. It's not achilah. When you swallow something, it's not an achilah. No, I'm not talking about swallowing. I'm not talking about swallowing. I'm talking about when you chew. Maybe I'm talking about a different situation. Bal matzi yotzei because you have the ta'am matzah, the Gemara says. You don't need the ta'am matzah for achilah. By maror, you're not yotzei because you need the ta'am maror. By matzah, you are yotzei. By matzah, you are yotzei, because you don't need the tam. Yeah, but it's not. You're asking kashya from the sugya of matzah. I'm not talking about pshat. I'm talking about what the rabbi just asked now: chewing, but it's not good. Chewing, but it's not good. Yeah, so that's clear. You're b'davar mar, misconsidered that it's not good. What do you mean? But that takes away from the derech achilah. That's one of the heterim that they use. What are you supposed to do if you need food on—I'm saying medicine on a taanis? So they say one of two things. This haRav Chaim wrote to me: either you're supposed to put sand in it. Sand? You're supposed to put sand in it. Sand is different. Or you're supposed to wrap it around with something. What? A food or something, a pill. A pill? Plus wrap it also? Yeah, he says to wrap it. He wrote me back, to wrap it. But wrap it with something that's not food. Never heard of that. Wrap it. Yeah, that's what the food for. That's what they say. But sand is not just stam a beteh; sand is mamash pak. Eruv. Put eruv. It means pakim; it's not eruv d'var ma'achal. Mar says eruv d'var ma'achal. Okay, we're talking—fifteen. You know the truth is, you're talking about big sugyos, you're farbrenging shas. The olam is a shas yid. Let's learn over here l'maaseh the truth.

The teshuvas state klar that it's vitamins are mutar on Shabbos. Why? Because it's called maichel. Mashen kein, if it's not kosher, it's still. So what's the nafka mina? What's the nafka mina? Okay, Reb Shlomo Zalman says clearly in the Shulchan Shlomo—you have the Shulchan Shlomo, Shulchan Shlomo, siman chaf-ches, se'if katan aleph—that vitamins is taka a problem on Shabbos. Maaseh says an interesting cheshbon. Why don't you take—Reb Shlomo Zalman makes a cheshbon—he says an interesting cheshbon. Why don't you take right before Shabbos— ... Would that affect whether it's mutar on Shabbos? I don't know. It's not so pashut. He just said with the Advils. That's what he's talking about, taking Advils, because it's pashut it's not called a achilah bichlal, so you don't have the shikchas amamonim. Who'd you hear this from? It's interesting, when you said it, it caught my ear. Who'd you hear this from? Why shikchas amamonim there? Shikchas amamonim have anything to do with derech achilah? Right? I'm not sure. I heard it somewhere. I heard this, that when you want to take aspirin on Shabbos, you take away the takanas shikchas amamonim. Why? By taking it through a—because then you're taka not taking it. Heker? Heker. I heard this. Taking medicine has to be derech achilah. On a taanis, the problem is eating, so you wrap it, you take care of the problem derech achilah. On Yom Tov, on Shabbos, the problem is taking medicine because it'll make you grind. We don't say a word about derech achilah. I heard this somewhere. I am gonna have to track it down. Yeah, I didn't hear it. On Shabbos you're not allowed to— You heard it for taanis in your ear. For a taanis, that makes sense. No, I heard it to get rid of a problem of treif. That I hear also, but to get rid of the ... what Shabbos? Yeah, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Okay. Reb Shlomo Zalman paskens, you hear? Reb Shlomo Zalman paskens that vitamins shouldn't take on Shabbos. What you should do is take them right before Shabbos and right after. He's right l'maaseh. If it's a one-a-day pill, take before and after. What about those candy vitamins? We're gonna get slow, slowly, one by one. What about pure candy? That's not a ... What about ...? ... This is a good ... Okay. But the pill, it's already smashed up. Put the thing ... Why is it already smashed? Because shichas is a gezeirah that you might come to do the original. Smash a herb on Shabbos. From a tree, what do you mean, the herbs? In the old days they used to have ... A root, herbs, something in the ground. They make the water in the pestle. They make the water in the pestle and you would ... Go back here. So says Reb Shlomo Zalman that if it's a nine-year-old kid, yeah, so it could be till nine he's considered choleh she'ein bo sakana, and you're allowed to be matir derabbanan. It's a very nice psak. So therefore when he needs vitamins, so for till nine years old, so you have a ... Let's read it inside. He says efshar, efshar. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't bring ... We'll bring it tomorrow. What you see inside, yeah, that for a child, this is not ... Maybe he has on vitamins, we'll go with it. Okay. Okay, let's talk l'maaseh. Let's talk l'maaseh. You ready? Vitamin C nobody takes unless you're sick. Most people don't just dump themselves with vitamin C when you don't feel well, huh? Wait, wait. L'maisa, okay, so the truth is like this. Vitamin C nobody takes unless you're sick, right? Iron is also a deficiency. Usually, otherwise you shouldn't be taking iron. So if you're starting to take iron pills and vitamin Cs, yeah, it's a yasod. Go read it. It's probably the same thing as the Shulchan Shlomo. So that l'choira is refuah dik, but all the other vitamins, that's maichal dik. So l'choira, I'm saying even according—huh? Not deficiency. That's not chizuk. Not true. Not true. Not true. You don't need a deficiency. They say if you take vitamin E, ... it helps you. Why are you taking it? Because the health bugs decided that you won't get any machlos from it if you take all these things. All right? Vitamin C is a deficiency. Nobody takes vitamin C for no other reason. It's some—unless... If you're sick, then you're sick. That's what I'm trying to say. Vitamin C is a cold thing. Yeah, go read it, read it. I'll take vitamins on Shabbos. It says clearly. Go ahead. ... Go ahead, yeah.

Unless he's very sick, right? So that's where the iron could be a problem, because that's choleh. See, right, that's where you have to know where you're holding. If it's stam, you want to add, right? He says if someone catches a cold very easily, or gets pneumonia very easily, so any other machlah, shelachar sheyechol bah, mutar lis'asek b'gino b'refuah, even b'Shabbos. So what do you have to wait for? Right, that's it. Right, you don't have to. You can do preventables. That's a good halacha. You know the p'venter chelek. I was clear about it. You asked me about this. Originally, the first question you asked me was this: are you allowed to take preventive? You don't remember me asking? I think it was almost the first or second question you ever asked me. We were up in the room over there, and you asked me, do I have to wait till I get sick? And I told you, no, you can take it before you get sick. Okay, now, let me tell you, again, you're talking to a person that I don't hold the whole thing. Yeah, no, there's no chashash. Go ahead. The before and after, that's where I got, the before and after. The before and after. So I taina that you have a Zitromax. You know, Zitromax is a one-a-day antibiotic. There's no reason to take it on Shabbos. Why would you take it on Shabbos? A Zitromax should be taken before Shabbos and after Shabbos. Huh? Good, so I'm saying, if you have no choice, you have no choice. See, the olam doesn't chap. The olam chaps antibiotics is mutar. So who says to take it on Shabbos? If it's—this is a very important klal. People don't know this. They always say antibiotics is mutar. It's not, it depends. I mean, what will be the heter? What? You've heard that the Zitromax should be before and after. Not Zitromax, whatever. I'm saying, yeah, you take antibiotics on Shabbos, you take it before and after. Why? Because of its, it's a... That's shit. That's really mixing... That's more than just giving... They’re mixing it. You have to mix it. What do you mix? What do you mix? You should remember it. I'm not... I'm not... I'm not... You're not mixing the thing, you're mixing the water in it. It's like powders. You're allowed to mix. It's Kool-Aid. It's Kool-Aid. Why are you mixing it? Mixing it in the pharmacy. Okay, how about taking, how about taking something which is oichel, yeah? Something which is oichel. No, no, no, no, no. Something which is oichel l'refuah. Yeah, what do you want? About teisha. We'll talk about the pinei... We'll talk about it. What? That's right, l'choira, that's this case. So R' Moshe has a teshuva about it, that it's mutar, but l'choira it's this Biur Halacha. Does he speak about the nine-year-old kid, that it's vitamins for a nine-year-old kid? But that's only in the Shulchan... He doesn't bring it here. Okay. How about fiber? People take Metamucil every day. What are you talking... I went through it with my father. We have big safekos about the fiber. Metamucil. See, you see, it's so funny, because for the way you said it's asur, and for the way you said it's mutar. You don't even realize how the two people sat at the same table. One said it's tzad heter, one said it's tzad issur. Avada, it's achilah. It's ma'achal bri'im. You know what it is? It's gevaldik, because the olam is Baruch Hashem young. When you get older, you know, it's like... Every zaken has his heart pills and his metamucil, his prune juice. Come on, what's... Anyways, the kid says, Metamucil is fiber. It's for a person to regulate. How did you say? You said it beautifully: digestive aid. On the bottle it says it's a digestive aid. L'maaseh, it's, it's, it's... I think he even brings, he speaks about it a little bit, the fiber. So if it's in pills, if it's in pills, l'choira it's more of a medicine. If it's not in pills, I'll tell you where my safek is. You have two types of fiber: soluble and non-soluble. There's different types of fiber. Metamucil is non-soluble fiber. Soluble is very healthy; it's for the heart, it's for the arteries. Non-soluble is for the... to make the person... So l'choira the non-soluble is refuah. So Father Tain is that when older people take it regularly, who said regularly? Can you speak it out? My father said that's called maichel.

I guess maybe when I get old, I'll pasken like him. I'm still holding that it's not ... No, but it's a gevaldige shaila. How do you pasken that? People take it every day. People take it every single day. So the fact that you take it every day makes it into a, for example, an aspirin. What would you say an aspirin is? Older people take an aspirin a day. So what would you call it? You know how they make aspirin, first of all? What's aspirin? It's not chemicals, by the way, you know that. Acetaminophen. That's acetaminophen. It's something else. Acetaminophen is Tylenol. There's ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and aspirin. It's three different ... One is not the other. Aspirin is made from the sap of a tree, and nobody knows why it works. It's a wonder drug. Aspirin is a wonder drug. I feel bad, I'm tired, because if I wasn't tired, I would go through the whole medicines. Maybe we'll do it tomorrow. I feel bad, rabosai, because I really want to go through the sugya with you very well. Aspirins are made from the sap of a tree. It's natural, natural, natural. I think they're the regular oak trees. They take the sap of an oak tree, they make aspirin from it. And nobody knows why it works, but it's a cure for every machlah, including cancer. They claim it even cures cancer. Huh? It depends really, no. How's the blood? Is the blood thinner? It's this, it's that. It's everything. Aspirin is the wonder drug. Any guy reaches a certain age takes one a day. I'm saying, I don't take it. You go to a heart doctor for the first time, checks your cholesterol, he checks your blood pressure, and he gives you right away aspirin a day. That's the mahalach, an aspirin a day. It's a blood thinner. It takes away blood clots. Kitzur, people take it every day. It's a natural food. It's not even a chemical. Acetamin is a chemical. It's a shayresh of Tylenol. So when you see Tylenol, that's the fancy name for acetamin. You can get it over the counter, and you'll buy it as acetamin. Ibuprofen is a different thing. Acetamin works on the pain. Ibuprofen is a blocker. It blocks the nerves from receiving the pain. Aspirin is a stronger painkiller. It's much worse on the stomach, but it's much stronger on the pain. It takes away the pain. Tylenol hurts the kidneys. You know, I'll take a certain amount of Tylenol. Tylenol could be bad for the liver and the kidneys. It's very bad. Aspirin, unless you take too much, you give you an ulcer, but whatever. Aspirin is a problem. Reye's is if you have a flu as a child. That's Reye syndrome. Okay, kitzur, let me take off my medical jacket and let's get back here a little bit here. So, lemaaseh— Oh, okay, okay, okay. Kitzur, this is the shaylah: the soluble and the non-soluble. All right, Reb Shlomo Zalman speaks about, yeah, certain vitamins, okay, that might be mutar. Which ones might be mutar, yeah? Right, if in case you're going to get sick and this and that, right? So if a person is choishesh, a person is choishesh, so therefore— Okay, now my question is, who decides all this? I had a big shaila with my father. It was easy on him. Who decides all this? You know, you can have a hypochondriac and he thinks that he has a cold, he's dying. So do you need a doctor to pasken? Who decides what's called choli and choli more and meichush? One person's pain is another person's being able to be sevel it. You need to go to a rav, and a rav has to decide, huh? Yeah, you get the ... and a kayin ... You know, you have to, you have to... I don't know. We'll talk tomorrow. My mind's a little unclear. Okay, kisser. You know what? Should I tell you the klalim now? It's a little bit late, huh? How about Listerine? What do you say? Are you allowed to take Listerine on Shabbos? If you look on the bottle, it says it kills germs. People take it every day. Nothing to do with eating. A mechalek every day. This is a sevara. Every day then it's... What's with Listerine? Listerine is a medicine, really. Listerine is a medicine. It's not just for good flavor. It kills the bugs.

They kill germs, so what do you call that? Antiseptic. Antiseptic. He says that it's mutar. Who says it's mutar? And what does Reb Shlomo Zalman? He's mesupak, Reb Shlomo Zalman. Reb Shlomo Zalman says it's kibeitzas, he thinks it's asur. Quickly, quickly, look at Reb Shlomo Zalman in the ... it's asur. Listerine, asur, asur. We're on the next page. Scope, Scope. Okay, we'll do it in ... tomorrow. There's so much ... Baby, Scope, but no ... no ... Do you count this too? I don't know, I waited for everybody else and I didn't. Scope is nothing. Scope is nothing. I don't know what he talks about. I mean, the next page, after what you read from the ... Where did you read? Not the Shulchan ... the ... This is what I have. Here it is. ... on any mouthwash. My father's always said, think as a kid. ... We learned this. The next case, ... Yeah, yeah. ... that kills the germs. ... the germs. ... I don't have this words, I'm sorry. It cleans out from the germs. Reb Shlomo Zalman says not so poshut. He's mesupak. He's mesupak. He says it's the Rosh Yeshiva holds ... no, you had to get rid of it. The what, the what? Rosh Yeshiva holds that mouthwash, you have to get rid of it. I'll explain to you, because I'm pesach with more machmir, anything you put in your mouth. It's a special chumrah for Pesach. Even though it's not derech achilah, therefore you're allowed to have treif. You're allowed to have treif for Listerine, by the way. Is that ...? No, it's kelev. Come on. Ah, now you're asking the 100-year-old shailah. All the books that bring down on Pesach all these ... Kellogg would eat it. Toothpaste. Listerine. The ... says the ... would eat it. You can use it. You can use this. I'm saying, who's gonna eat it? Nobody's gonna eat it. Reb David once told me, it's very, very, it's very, very not pashut, all these books that come out. It's very not pashut. ... is very machmir on Listerine and on Pesach. Maybe because you put it in your mouth. Anything. So not everybody's ... machmir. Yeah, because the ... Sometimes they have ... But not all of them. A lot of them, the alcohol is not chametzdik. The kitzer. Yeah, so there's no minyan. What happened? ... Yeah, he lost his jacket, that's what he said. He's being ... on him, he lost his jacket. That was good. Oh my God. Rebbe's being ... to explain your words right now. Tomorrow, mitzvas Hashem, I also want to talk about, I want to talk about the, what you call pills, the birth control. Are you allowed to take birth control pills? So Reb Moshe has a teshuva. We're going to talk about it a bit tomorrow. Anything which is more than seven days is asur, unless it's choleh. Reb Shlomo Zalman holds that you don't have to have choleh. It's a shaila how to learn the Shulchan Aruch. Zogt the Mishnah Berurah—you hear, zogt the Mishnah Berurah—I'm sorry, zogt Reb Moshe that it's asur. So I don't know, according to Reb Moshe, how you could ever take birth control. You have to take on Shabbos, and he holds it's asur every day. Wow. According to—I don't know. According to Reb Moshe, I don't understand. How many times do you take it a day? Huh? I'm saying, unless you take one before Shabbos, one after. I know. But if you have to take—you know where I would also say is a problem? I hold it's eimas lamita. It's one spoken to Reb Neuberger about it. The kallahs who take pills, that's bichlal a refuah. Well, what's the heter to take on Shabbos? It's mamash sam hamaves. What's the heter on Shabbos? What's it makes them not need it? Huh? Yeah. Yeah. So the birth control...

So, R' Moshe holds that anything which is seven days, it has to be l'refuah, and if it's not l'refuah, it means you'll get sick, then it's taka asur. I don't know how you could ever take... Some of them are two a day, right? Some of them are two a day. So maybe it would depend what the reason why you're taking it. Unless you become, like, you'll get sick. Right, so I'm saying, so it could be, could be the heter is that if someone will get sick, and that was the heter l'chatchilah, so what about the kallah? Yeah. I spoke to Rav Neibin about this. I hold that the kallah should not take the pills before the chasan. There's no heter. Just a heter. It's not two a day, huh? So take the one a day ones. I know, it's a chanami. You're supposed to take the one-a-day ones, the one before Shabbos and one after. There are two-a-day ones, right? I think it's two a day. There are plenty that are one a day. Then you have to take it. What's the heter? There's no heter for it. Bishlema by a choleh, that she will get sick. Okay, okay. There's no minyan. Okay, so let's learn the next se'if that comes. So let's learn the next se'if. Yud ches, let's go. Yud ches. Ein shoirin... Ein shoirin es hachalatos. Go ahead, lein, lein, lein. Ein shoirin es hachalatos. Yeah, but the dafka mina me'esmol, right? We didn't learn it because you didn't need it. Shiva yamim. The last part of the mechaber, shiva yamim, yeah? Hayeshorim me'esmol mutar l'shoresa b'Shabbos. M'shasim mimenu yom chamishi, v'yom shishi, mutar l'shtosa gam b'Shabbos. That's the chiluk, yeah? Mutar shekach hu derech leflos l'shtosa shiva yamim, derech zeh mutar l'shtosa b'tzeina. V'litnin becham neishu sakanim lo yishte mimenu. So if it's shiva yamim zacher zeh, it's mutar l'shoisoi. So it's seven days, right? So what happens, Mishnah Berurah, tzarich loimar shlosha, gimel yamim. It's actually three days. So let's say it's something that you have to take every day. So what happened with the minyanim, huh? So Reb Shmuel Zalman holds that even if it's not a choleh, any medicine which, because otherwise you have trouble, because all the medicines that people take, you know, for, what do they call that, for decongestion of the sinuses, not a choleh. Unless you're mamash b'tzaar, chvays. Why is that so severe? What? If you're b'tzaar and you can't breathe, then you would go to sleep because you have a stuffed nose. Yeah? There are times when you have a bad cold. A cold is not a stuffed nose, a sinus problem. I mean, stam that your sinuses. Guys have sinus problems, so they have to take every day a decongestant, right? So before they go to sleep three, four times a day they take it to decongest, right? You want to open up the nasal passages. So according to Reb Shmuel Zalman, something that you take every single day might be mutar, but I'm not so sure if that's pshat in Reb Shmuel Zalman. I asked Reb Noibet once, is the pshat in Reb Shmuel Zalman because the only way it could work is if I take it every day? These things work that I take them and it works for that time. Is that also... we'll do it tomorrow. We'll get into it tomorrow. Today was a... Yeah, yeah. Nice. ...they'll give you a ... ...even the refuah more ... every day. I'd say it's just, I take and I feel better. I take and I feel better. The fact I took it yesterday... Nice. You're regulated taking it every day anyway, whether you feel better or not. It's become just pretty routine. That's what I'm saying. Could be it's a routine ... or the pshat is the refuah started from before Shabbos. ...like three times a day... ...and this ... So we got a new lamp for the... Oh yeah? ...this chadish.