Hilchos Refuah on Shabbos: Medicines, Vitamins, Diet Pills, and Continuing Treatment

Transcript

After that, after a shach, my father didn't let us ... That was it. Done. I hope he understands now. I don't take it from a good impression. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, mishburah, mishburah for me. Mishburah, we'll start. I'll get it. Okay. So, Reb Shabsi, you read the start with Yud Ches. You read the Biur Halacha. Okay, who's reading Yud Ches and who's reading the ...? You read Yud Ches, you read the Biur Halacha. I'm sorry, Yud Zayin, excuse me. We were reading ... yesterday. Okay. Whatever it was. Okay. Gag magul. Yeah, gag magul. Shehu yayin yashan, davar shepilpelin, mipnei shehu l'shtiya. It's mutar to make this because you're drinking it; it's regular shtiya. V'ein osin ela luntes, shehu yayin yashan u'mayim tzlulim, ... shehu l'refuah. That's .... ... shehu l'refuah. Okay. So the bottom line is it's mashma, l'shtiya mutar; refuah asur. Yeah. Sounds like the issur is to make it, but there was already. So Mishnah Berurah says that it's even to drink it. ... אסור ... אפילו ... אסור לשתות. Huh? What's the whole beginning of this? Oh, so we have to discuss that. So is it shtiyah and mameila refuah? So that's the biur halacha. I saw that, I think we went too quickly yesterday. I started with pills and caffeine, ... inside. So what's the chiluk between the reisha and the seifa, they say? That's your shaylah. Yeah, but it's obviously the shtiyah. What's the chiddush? The teretz is it's not shtiyah; it's shtiyah and agav orcha refuah. Otherwise, what are you talking about? No. No, one of them is going to be that it's going to be refuah, but it's through the shtiyah. That's this biur halacha. Well, we said, like something that's not... So let's see it inside. So, ... אסור ... לעשות גזירה משום שחיקת סממנין, ולכן אפילו ... ערב שבת אסור לשתות. ... עיין. Okay. So l'choira from here is mashma refuah. So anything which could be deemed refuah was asur. So anything which is not refuah, it's not asur, right? Anything which is not a medicine, quote unquote, says Reb Shlomo Zalman, you see from the biur halacha nittazeh. So read the biur halacha: ... See, you see that there's something which is not called refuah because he has to go out of his way and say lav davka, right? So in the lashon... Saying, loy mislavda, doesn't mean refuah, but she'eino maichl briyim. Something which is not called maichl briyim, she'asi rak l'tzorech l'adam, which means it has a particular purpose. A regular normal person—now, briyim doesn't mean bari, healthy. Bari means for no reason a person would take it, right? The choleh, the merchatz, not necessarily a choleh. Now, is that purpose a stam usage, or is there something wrong with it? Oh, that's what I'm trying to say. It doesn't mean that you have to be very—you have to be sick because of it, but it's uncomfortable. So the word is that since the nekudah of maichl briyim—come, we just started, so we're going to get through the whole sugya today, you'll have hanachah, and I'll tell you the emes. Once, once, you know, you have to go through it once. It's a sugya mentioned. Yes, I will, I will. No, I'm not going to assume. I assume that you're a tzaddik and you come with serious nefesh. That's how I... No, I meant as far as the repeating. Don't assume I know everything. Okay. The Shulchan Aruch clearly differentiates between something which is l'shtiyah and l'refuah. The Palti'el asks, shtiyah is l'sheich... We're going to learn it. It doesn't mean, of course—it's controversial, l'shtiyah. It doesn't mean it's just a...

Means that there's refuah in it, and you can be mechaven l'refuah. But since it's... It's the Gemara by the shemen, how you do whether you're bolel, right? In brachos. I looked it up last night. Where's lamed samach? And I looked up last night. Yeah, I didn't even put the Gemara back; it's still here. Lamed vav, right? The first lamed. First lamed vav, right? It's lamed vav. It's also in Shabbos. Where is it, like nun-samach, nun-beis, nun-vav? Kuf, kuf-nun-vav maybe. It's kuf-nun-vav. Okay, al kol panim, this is the sugya, okay? So the question is refuah. Very, very, very controversial topic: how do you define refuah? What's refuah? So kipshuto, refuah means it has to be to heal. So the Biur Halacha chips away at that, retzono lomar. That's very important. Keep that Biur Halacha in mind, retzono lomar, she'eino meichel bri'im. It doesn't mean that it has to be a medicine, quote unquote, but something which is not meant for bri'im. And what does bari mean? It doesn't mean bri'im that it's sick, right? Bari just means that it's not meant to take away any ailment. There's illness—let's use those words—illness and ailment. So this is to take away an ailment, right? Because it's in the beis hamerchatz. That's what I want from this Biur Halacha. Bri'im doesn't mean what's mutar is, you know, what people eat for lunch, breakfast, and supper. That's not the sugya, right? Meichel bri'im means—I'm saying fakert, I'm saying on the shlili way—in other words, she'eino meichel bri'im doesn't mean that it's something that's eaten normally. Anything which is not normal teed doesn't have to be that it takes away a choleh. It could take away an inconvenience. That's already called not a maichel briyim, because there's no reason to eat it. Breakfast, lunch, and supper is maichel briyim. Anything which is out of the ordinary, l'choira, in this definition, is out of maichel briyim, even though it's not healing or— In the bracha mashma that's us. L'choira, because that's what tzani l'adam yichai bais hamerchatz. But Rav Shmuel Zam just makes the diyuk: eina maichel briyim lafukei refuah. But I'm going one step further in defining—I mean, it's not even an illness. It's not. Is the issue to use it for human— So is he learning that kefikos is not an illness? Memeila you can't use it for refuah purposes? Illness. Illness, right, yeah. Something—illness. No, so what we're saying is, for this ailment it's aser. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying. From the first line of the biur halacha, the pashut is that there's something called normal breakfast, lunch, and supper, and this is not what normal people eat, which means it's not taken on a constant normal basis to feed oneself, right? Okay, something that's taken. It's taken, right. It's something that's taken. Very good, okay? Now, does the taken have to be that it's for illness? No. From bais hamerchatz you see that it's just uncomfortable. I mean, it's not— But is that why it's kavua that it's not a maichel briyim? No, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm saying even more, even more. If it's not ma'achal briyim, and the usage—that's what I'm adding—and the usage doesn't even have to be for an ailment, that's already called a problem. There's two nekudos. One is she'eino ma'achal briyim, which means regular people don't take it, and on top of that, d'tzorech of it not necessarily has anything to do with choli. It's not about sickness. It's about discomfort. So if something which alleviates discomfort, still it's not normal to take, so vert es asur in the sugya of shchikas samemanim. Says Reb Shlomo Zalman that this is the definition, not refuah. You don't have to make the general wide definition of refuah. We go with the very narrow definition of it's not ma'achal briyim, and I'm explaining and adding even for not an ailment. Lefi zeh makes a nafka mina. I'm saying it depends. That's what I'm saying. Not an ailment at all. Exactly, exactly. That's what I'm—but I'm being masbir. I'm saying you see that from Reb Shlomo Zalman's case. Correct, that's what I'm saying. So I don't think you're taking it further than— Okay, I don't mean further. I'm just further than what we said yesterday. All I'm trying to say is today we're going to get it clearer. Eino ma'achal briyim means not normal eating, and the nekudah is that there's something that's difficult.

for you, but it doesn't have to necessarily be a choleh. Okay, so he comes and he says that the caffeine pills and the sleeping pills. Why coffee? Why would coffee... Slow, slowly, slowly. Let's talk slowly. So first... It's a drink and people drink. Amenut, amenut. Is this for me? Take upon the offer. Bring it to the... Okay. So the caffeine pill and the sleeping pill. On the bottom of the Shulchan Shlomo we saw yesterday, he speaks out. On the bottom we saw that he says that sometimes sleeping pills is not mutar. He says that obviously when he was matir, he was matir when someone has a problem, an insomnia, and he can't sleep, and... So he's learning. It's a very narrow definition of refuah. That's what I'm telling you. That's what he's being medayek from here. That's the shtikel Shulchan Shlomo that we're learning. That's there. He's telling him... that when it says refuah, it's a... side. Refuah does not mean refuah. Refuah means anything that bothers you, and that's already not called maichel briim, because you don't take it unless it bothers you, unless you have the situation. Not being able to sleep is a situation. It's a situation. That's what he wants to say, and therefore it's a problem. Therefore it's a problem. It's not maichel briim. Ah, he's matir. It says on the bottom that later on he's going to be matir. It's matir for someone that's sick. Someone that has insomnia, insomnia is shena disease. Now, the only thing is, you have to clarify—this is really, I wanted, you know, at the end I wanted to get to it. I guess we'll fast forward to today. How do you know you have that? Do you have to go to sleep and it doesn't work out, and then you take the pill? Because otherwise, a person goes to sleep, right? He can't sleep, so he takes the pill. Let's say he's afraid he won't be able to go to sleep. Maybe he can stop taking the pill. Or maybe if he has a few nights and he couldn't sleep, so he's allowed l'chatchila take it. No, but let's say for a few nights he can't sleep. I don't know. Or—let's say a person has already—let's say one night, I don't know. Not necessarily. Let's say a person says he has trouble sleeping. One night. Maybe he's a shverkeit to sleep. He can make a cheshbon. That's right, he has anxiety, so he thinks, tonight I won't be able to sleep, so I need a sleeping pill. It's not clear what the hagdarah is between— Yeah, but if he's saying that he'll be mitztayer, you don't need that the choleh should be. We learned this yesterday, right? We learned yesterday that he has a gevaldige vort from—why do you have to wait for the choleh to be there and then to be matir it? Just take it in advance. So if you really believe that it's going to come— Yes, 100%. Yeah, that's what I told him. Also, this is nice, I asked yesterday, what do you do? This is—every person can be a hypochondriac. I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, you go to a rav; the rav has to know. You're a hypochondriac, I don't know the answer to that. But this is the shaylah. This is the shaylah. What are you tying up, Blazer? You're glatt a mensch. You hear the shaylah? It's a good shaylah because, you know, you're not matir it regularly. You're only matir it— When you have a problem, so when does the problem begin? One night of not sleep, two nights? Could you anticipate you're not going to sleep and that's already a problem? I don't know. I'm not 100% sure. One thing for sure, if you have a lot of nights of sleeplessness, you know, they got to say that when a person doesn't sleep for a few nights, he has to go to a doctor, maybe something underlying, there's something wrong. So maybe that's already a geder of choli, a few nights. Medically, they give you that. You think it only happens to me, but there are other reasons for that. Yeah, okay. All right, all right. Now there was once a person by the Haggadah. He said, Dam, tzfardeia, bonim, arov, dever. So he said, shtei kinim. He says, bon mecha makeh, you know. It could also be also because of sleepless nights. Don't take it that serious. I never ... I say serious, I say serious. European jokes, you can't handle European jokes. But kitzur, this is shaila in Reb Shlomo Zalman, okay? And he himself, taka, like I said, paskens that if you anticipate the choli, then you're allowed to take it. We saw this yesterday. So how about if you anticipate the sleepless night? Is that called a choli? I don't know. Now, to...

The coffee drinking, hasta d'gefragt, gut? The coffee drinking, why is it good? So the truth is, anything which is shtiah, and that we saw from the Biur Halacha yesterday, anything which is shtiah, even if you mechaven for a refuah, is mutar, right? With the meiri, pitoi, divrei hamaschil pitoi, who's reading? Go ahead and play. You read it. You don't have the Mishnah Berurah, so you read. Not a play, not to do it. Pitoi, pitoi, divrei hamaschil pitoi, right? Yeah, that's going on the Shulchan Aruch. Let's do the Shulchan Aruch. I think it may know the Shulchan Aruch already. Let's do to the peshat: ... אבל נותן לתוך החמץ ומטבל בו פיתו. So if you do it through food, you're not allowed to make this chalatas, because it's a refuah thing. But if you put it into food, which we're going to learn later, it's one of the heterim that the Gedolim, Rav Shlomo Zalman speaks about it. You put all your medicine into food, you're done. Done. Someone made cupcakes with pills in them. With pills in them, gevald, you're done. This is this mahalach, all right? Says the Mishnah Berurah: ... שהוא לרפואה, ... גם כן שרי. It's also mutar. Even if he's mechaven l'refuah, it's also mutar, okay? So you see that if you take food, if you take food, and ... yeah, yeah, if ... it's not nikar, so then it becomes mutar. Okay, so that's coffee. You could take food, and even if you mean refuah, and this is even worse, right? Because this is mamash refuah mixed into the food. I never drink the coffee; it's time to drink. I don't take it. Yeah, but people do it. Who cares what you do? It doesn't matter. People see you drink coffee, they don't say, Oh, he's sick. No one's going to say, Oh, he's sick. No, when you drink the coffee, it's not niker. Your wife might, your wife might. Yeah, but it's not, it's not, it's not niker that it's a problem, and therefore there's no problem. So remember this behalacha, okay? And I told you, someone that drinks this stuff from the Chaima Melech, someone's gonna say he's sick. They say it's a reason. It's taking care pekdek. It's like care pekdek. It has a reason to take it. Better coffee. He's drinking coffee. People don't drink coffee for that. People drink coffee all day. You need coffee. I went to Eretz Yisrael. Whenever I go visit over there, I visit every now and then. I pay my dues. You know, my wife works for them. She gives, what do they call those little coffee things? No, cappuccino. The cappuccino. Those little cappuccinos. You must have a frozen cappuccino. Whenever I walk into the house, you must, Rabbi Walkin, you need a... Unless she's telling me I'm sick, I don't know what she's telling me exactly. But it's a drink. A coffee is a drink. A coffee is a drink. The olam drink coffee. A coffee is a drink. Shem, mimeila, that is mutar. The only thing is, this I told you I'm not mesupek about, and the more I think about it, choshesh more and more mesupek. You don't want to take a full coffee. Take a little bit coffee in a cup. You mix it with a tiny drop of water, because all you want is the caffeine. Why is that different than taking a caffeine pill? How much are you talking about? I can't tell you measurements. That's too, that's too... No, take a little coffee. I'm just saying, but you could tell you're just taking the coffee. I know, but that's a drink. That's not a drink. You go to the coffee shop... Nobody takes a teaspoon of coffee. You go bust it. There's a situation. A person takes a... he's not... He's saying that they do that. Nobody in the world does that. Nobody takes a teaspoon of coffee with a tiny drop of water. And how about other... There's no other... that the derech is to take a certain amount before it's... I know, before I take a shiur and I'm tired, that's how I take my coffee. I don't even put hot water in it. I just put cold water and then a little bit just to get it down. The Rav ever ate just the end of a crust of bread. For you it's tacke... the end of a crust of bread. Why is somebody doing it? There's no kavana brius in it. There's no kavana brius in it. But here there's kavana brius. This is kavana brius. Everybody knows people take coffee because they're tired. That's the reason why you take coffee. Drink a coffee. To drink a coffee is because you like the coffee. And even if it has other... you drink wine because you want to fall asleep. I'll be drinking wine. But if a guy comes, this I hope is a safek. And let's do the Mishnah Berurah, ayin aleph, okay? People drink coffee. Ich nisht maskim, ich nisht maskim. Ayin aleph. Go ahead, ayin aleph. Do ayin aleph. No? Ayin yud ches. I know. I'm sorry, ayin beis, l'shroisoi. Tzrichin lomar l'shtoisoi. Vatab, go ahead, Reb Leizer, look it up and you tell me if you're maskim with me. Dzehu.

Michael tzatzbriim. Where are we looking? Ayin beis. Ayin aleph. Ayin beis. Lishroisoi, this is halacha, that you're allowed to be lishtois, you're allowed to drink this, right? Says the Mishnah Berurah, why are you allowed to drink it? Vatam, d'zehu maichel tzatzbriim. It's not allowed. V'loy minker— no, that's why you're allowed to. It's mutar lishroisoi. It is? No, what? Yeah, it's going on the lishtois. Ah, it's going on how you're sho'eh me'atzmo. How you're sho'eh me'atzmo, it's mutar. Yeah, says the Mishnah Berurah, why? Because, vatam, d'zehu maichel tzatzbriim, v'loy minker milsa shehu l'refuah. So it could be it's telling the minker milsa, and if a guy drinks a coffee, who's looking how much coffee he took? If a guy's doing it l'refuah, then tzatzbriim is a problem. It's mutar, mutar, mutar. We just learned it. Maichel briim l'refuah is mutar. It's tzatzbriim. Tzatzbriim, yes. Yeah. Kol ochlin u'mashkin— it's not exactly the same, but it says, kol ochlin u'mashkin shemachal briim mutar le'ochlan u'lishtosan, af al pi sheheim kashim l'katzbriim, u'muchamilsa d'l'refuah avid. It's muchamilsa, that's the word. Here it's not muchamilsa. That's what he wants to say. It's not muchamilsa meileh, v'eis mutar. So it could be that'd be the makom to matir. So, at the end of the day, halacha l'maaseh, if someone comes to ask me, even though I do it, I don't know if you're allowed to do it. I don't know. I don't know. It's not so pashut to me. You take coffee, a little bit in a cup, but that's drinking caffeine. What are you drinking coffee? Let's say it's drinking coffee. Not too much, a little bit. So add a little water, אין הכי נמי. If you add water, then it's not a problem. But to drink it, that it's nikar that you're stam taking coffee, you're drinking caffeine, that you can't. I don't see the heter. Okay, so pills, Reb Shlomo Zalman asers it, yeah? I don't know. A guy is shvach because he didn't eat. He's eating because he's shvach. But the chacham didn't aser. But that's maichel. Maaseh chacham didn't aser. Why does it any different? So he's tired, so he's eating something because he's tired. So that's the normal thing. It's normal food. That's what people do. They're tired and hungry, so they eat and they drink coffee. That's what they do. No one drinks like this. It's not normal to drink like that. No one drinks like that. Basic maintenance, bodily maintenance. Maichel, aser d'rabbanan. Maichel, aser d'rabbanan. Do you hold it's aser? I hold it's aser. Whatever the rav says is glatt. The rav says aser. I'm saying it's glatt. It's glatt. We don't go with glatt situations. You're the best argument here. That's how we come. If one of the members of the chaburah, yeah, it makes sense, that's aser. Makes sense, makes sense. A person comes, puts a little coffee in, says it's not a pill, it has to be a pill. So a pill is... Now, honestly, you want to know what I told you yesterday, and I hold the whole thing is mutar, the whole thing is this is gone, especially once you understand R' Moshe's teshuvos, ... the whole ma'aseh is not nogea. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. We're going to get to it right now. We're going to get to it right now. Okay, now, what do I mean by R' Moshe's teshuvos, vitamins? Nigleh Moshe, Chaim chelek gimmel, siman nun daled. Take it out. It's כדאי to see it inside. Rishiva Zatzal says that vitamins are mutar on Shabbos. There's no problem with taking vitamins on Shabbos. Reb Shlomo Zalman, in the Shulchan Shlomo, siman chaf-hei, sif katan aleph, you saw it yesterday, he brings down that vitamins are asur. So I told him, I once asked Rav David, I don't understand, why is it that vitamins are mutar because it's called maichel on Shabbos, and when it comes to treifus, there's no problem with treife vitamins because it's not called a maichel. Is there or isn't it a maichel? So Rav David told me, You're not learning the teshuva right. The pshat is that it's not derech achilah. It's a maichel; let's eat, shelo k'derech achilah, vertes mutar. But the maichel itself is maichel bri, it's mutar, no problem. So therefore Shabbos is תלוי in the maichel, and treifus is תלוי in the derech achilah. Good. Agav, Reb Shlomo Zalman says that the vitamins for the nine-year-old child and under, till nine, is a choli sheyesh bo sakanah, and therefore you can be meikel because they're weak and vitamins becomes a tzorech. It's interesting, today I don't know if they push the vitamins as much. In the old days, mamish, they used to push it like every child needed vitamins. Ad kedei kach that they made candy vitamins, you know, like it was like a whole zach. I don't know if they push it as much today.

As kids they had. As kids, as kids it was— no, but it was like a chaykei yav, you had to take— Fluride. That's what it is, yeah, yeah. So that's what I'm saying, I don't know what Reb Shlomo Zalman would say today. Just write this ha'arah down. You wrote down the coffee, you wrote down the whole— the coffee. But the two nekudos in the Mishnah Berurah, the Biur Halacha and the Mishnah Berurah, that it's meikel katzas niker. Very important, the niker, niker, niker. Okay. The vitamins. So even Reb Moshe's— write that, you write, I know for sure— but even Reb Shlomo Zalman's issur, that he comes to be matir for a child under nine, I don't know what he would hold today. There's so much vitamins in the cereals. Everything is— everything— what, in the cereal it's not real? So all the vitamins they give you are not processed? They're also processed. They are also, so you eat fruits and vegetables. Whatever it is, whatever it is, I don't know. Today they don't push the vitamins like they used to push in the old days. Okay. Al kol panim, let's go back to our shaila. So I want to taina, and with this I want to open up the whole sugya. I wanted to say this yesterday, I was tired. I want to open up the whole sugya with this. There's a yesod, there's a machlokes between Reb Shlomo Zalman and Reb Moshe. Reb Shlomo Zalman learned that you don't need refuah. Anything which is not maichal, bri'im is already asur. Vitamins is not taken as breakfast, lunch and supper. Reb Shiva Zatzal held that it has to be refuah. The refuah asis. Anything which is not l'refuah, so m'meila, maichal bri'im. So why does it have to be maichal? Huh? Even if it's not a maichal. Why do you want it to be? No, it doesn't mean maichal. It doesn't mean people take vitamins. It's not a sign that you have to be sick to take a vitamin. That's right. That's what I'm telling you. But wasn't Rav Dovid saying because of the treifus that— No, no. Rav Dovid was just saying, but it's a maichal on Shabbos, and here it's not a maichal. But Rav Dovid was saying that where it's not a maichal, that doesn't mean it's not a maichal. You're making a lumdus of maichal. The point is, it's not called a refuah. That's the main yesod. Yeah, but I'm saying Rav Dovid was focusing on the teretz teshuvah, and the Rav now is tightening up the kashrus. It's not a stirah. It's not really a stirah, because even in Shabbos, what makes it normal is that it's a maichal. I mean, it definitely has to go under the hagdarah of maichal. I mean, if not, then what do you take? I mean, you're just swallowing cardboards. Yeah, but that's what it means, and then you're doing l'refuah. I mean, part of it is that it becomes normal maichal. So I'm saying, l'mashal, the bi'halachos case. I know what you're doing. What you're doing is you're making very technical. You don't need to go there. It's more simpler. It's a maichal. And the pshat is, it's not maichal that it's l'refuah, that mamash you go and it's marpeh you, it's healing you, so then it's mutar. A maichal that is—there's such a thing, a maichal l'refuah? Yes, we're going to get to this. I want to tell you a big yesod. I want to tell you a big yesod. Anything which is not marpeh—you see, because you have to go back to the yesod. He really asked a nice question. You know, food is also mazen. Food is also mazen. So where do you draw the line? So the teretz is because chacham didn't asser because you're not eating on Shabbos. Or you could come and say that that's not what the Chacham even came with. The Chacham came with something which is refuah, and I want to explain to you what I mean. Give me a second. Give me a half a second. You'll see what I mean. Let's say a diet pill. I'll give you a mashal, a diet pill. A diet pill. So we said yesterday, some of them just make you feel full. You know, it's just, you know, it has a grapefruit, mit pectin, mit fiber, che... Then you have some that have acetamin. Now, what's N-acet? What's it called? The thing that makes the heart fast. No, acetamin, right? The thing that makes the heart fast. It's something that makes—they rather took it out because people got heart attacks from it, whatever. But it's a chemical, right? It's a chemical diet pill, all right? So l'choira that should be aser. So there's an interesting teshuva from thisa Karelitz. Thisa Karelitz's ta'ina is—here, take it out, I want you to look it up—amud kuf nun beis. Yes, okay. Sometimes you gotta jump to exercise or run. We'll get to this. This is not so pashut. It's not pashut even to walk if you have in mind to do exercise. So we're gonna get to this. Give me two minutes. We're gonna get.

We're gonna get to it, we're gonna get to it. You're not saying it override; therefore, we're getting stuck on the ... Okay, kuf nun beis. I'm on kuf nun beis. Diet pill, no? Diet pill. Okay. You don't have it. ... Okay, yeah. Glulois round pills ... destroy the appetite, כדי שלא יוכל ... that they shouldn't eat more than the correct measurement of food. Mistaver delo mikri refuah. Ah. Such pill is not called refuah. Why? It takes away the appetite, yes. It's not called a refuah, yeah. ... Ve'ein ze ela litein lo hargashah sheyisaba. Ve'ein ze hisaskus b'refuah. I said it. I'm saying a vort. I want you to listen carefully to what he's saying. It's like Remaisha, the way I understand Remaisha. This is what I'm saying. You see others learn like this also. There's something which directly goes to be marpeh, and then there's something which indirectly is a refuah. It doesn't heal the machlah. See, this goes — it takes away appetite, ... So there are medicines, there are medicines — let's say, we'll get to it — antibiotics. Antibiotics kills the germs. Antibiotics kills the thing. Mashenkein where it does something, and mimeila you don't have the choli, or you don't have the issue, that's not called refuah. Is this worse than the case of the bi'alachah? I mean, they're just going נגד the bi'alachah. Whether tightening up the bihalacha is only telling you what's not a machal bri'im, but not for which tzorech. I don't know what the— I don't know. I don't know. But the Rosh Yeshiva maybe was not learning the bihalacha so, so strictly. The Rosh Yeshiva zatzal obviously was not learning the bihalacha so strictly. He was learning that it has to have some refuah, and if it doesn't have refuah, a vaadimin doesn't have refuah. Maybe Moshe learned the bihalacha that chaim doesn't just mean I'm hot and I need— unless maybe it's a choleh also. Maybe. Or maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe. I would— chaim is a merchatz. Maybe you got a little heat stroke, not a major, like a real— The other way around. Once a person is sick, it's much worse, because then it's a— I mean more like lemonade, I need to get— I think the guy has a cold, he takes vitamins. The other way around. But preventive, the other way. You're saying over the pshat that many say, it's much better because you're not sick, you're just trying to take it to feel good. We'll get to it, we'll get to it. I know, that's the end of the shiur. You gotta wait, and that'll be the heter, okay? Now take out the teshuvah from Moshe, harav on it, okay? Now, if a person got a prescription— You want to say according to Rav Shlomo Zalman that even the dietary pills that are just to fill you up would be aser? Because it's for a situation. Correct. I hold that Rav Shlomo Zalman had a very— I'm telling you, a very strict definition of what's called the medicine. You're taking it if anything besides if you're hungry. If you're hungry, you're in trouble. You're in trouble. That's what I'm saying in Reb Shlomo. You see, Rav Shlomo Zalman talks about caffeine pills and the mei— I don't believe for one minute that she would hold a caffeine pill is a problem, and I don't watch her call pills a problem. It's vitamins. What's it? What is it? It's choleh, yasik. Choleh sick. Right? Okay. Now, let's just backtrack two steps, okay? If a person is overweight and the doctor tells him that he's going to die if he doesn't take diet pills, then you better take them, okay? About the lashon in Rashi in Shabbos, yeah, by the ... says, She'ein lemashket tamei ela litzanen lachar mechat. So he drinks this, you know, he drinks it, v'dugma refuah. Right. So that's what I'm trying to say. It's, Rav Shmuel is saying it's a very, very, you know, very strict definition. It's all derabbanan. Gezeirah, gezeirah shechikas samemanim. We're going to get to— No, not at all. Okay. L'maaseh, where would the shaylah be? The shaylah would be a woman, you know, the women, they take these diet pills, they don't need to, or they shouldn't be, whatever the case is. So this becomes the need. They don't really need it. It's not a choli. There's nothing there. But l'maaseh, it's not marpeh, it's not healing them. There's no refuah involved. Okay. Take a look at the Mishnah Berurah, shin chaf ches.

Sif katan kuf yud ches, sif katan kuf mem, and tell me if you agree. But listen, Karel, after you read this Mishnah Berurah. Siman chaf ches. Mishnah Berurah kuf yud ches, page 334. That works. Okay, so what's this mashkeh? What mashkeh are you not allowed to drink? Let's hear. Mashkeh. What's mashkeh? Make you healthy to help you go. No, Pepto-Bismol is a little different. Pepto is the anti... That's because when you have a stomachache, that could be a choleh already. But here it's the other way around. ... Exactly. So Mishnah Berurah says you're allowed or you're not allowed? Unless you're choleh, yeah. Nish... Look at that refuah. It's always something wrong. It's not a question of wrong. Not a refuah. The hagdarah is that something which is marpeh, it works as a rofeh, healing a disease. But something which just prevents a situation and therefore you feel better, right, the diet pills, which I'm telling you to vitamins, which I'm telling you to prune juice, huh? Mishalshin is not, you're not sick. Ela mai? And what do you see? It's awesome, though. What? And he said, he doesn't say prune juice. There was some... that they only drank, and no one else, nobody but... Whatever it is, are you masking? Are you masking that this thing is... It's in the health section. It's in the... What does Mishalshul do? Mishalshul just takes the... Mishalshul's not healing your cells in your body. It's just giving you the ability to... Fine, but this is something that's strictly not a maachal mashkeh briyim. That's the case of the Shulchan Aruch. But diet pills is maachal briyim. Huh? Diet pills to you is maachal briyim. No, no, I'm just saying prune juice. I'm talking about prune juice. I'm talking about here. Diet pills to this... I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure. I'm not sure. I'm not clear about this. This is not clear to me. This is not glatt. To say a diet pill, a vitamin is a little bit better, and that's maybe the teretz to your kasha. Sof kol sof, it's a food. A vitamin is more of a food, okay? So maybe that's why the Rishiva talks about food, maachal briyim, fine. All right? You want another one? Here, how about kuf mem? Look at kuf... kuf mem. How about... This is like... What's... Lana? So it's not food. What is it? Is it a... like a...? Lana is a vegetable. Vegetable? It helps you for your stomach, digestive. Huh? Example? Example, yeah. So what does he say, mutar? No. Why? Why? What's the refuah? What does it do to you? Clearly. So on Pesach you can't eat prune juice. You're trying to control something. That's not bad. I like what you're saying. You're saying good words, you know that. You're saying that b'chalal the whole concept of dieting is not a refuah. In other words, what it does is it just makes you not hungry. It's not healing anything. That's not good. That's not good. But every preventative. Yeah, it's— no. B'sha'ah you have something wrong. There's something wrong. It's not even a medicine because it's not doing anything. It's just telling you you're not hungry. It's giving signals to your brain you're not hungry, but meileh you don't want to eat. So he wants to say that that doesn't even have the class— because you wouldn't buy it in the store of medicine; you would buy it in the— after the cakes in the store. You have cakes and then diet pill. Good, good, but he's trying to say that it's not a refuah. Maybe it's not good. He's saying good. What's that? What is not— we're discussing here that if a person takes a diet pill, is it a refuah?

Food, eat, what does it have to do? Ask, what do you want? She stopped asking me a separate question: are you allowed to take diet pills on Shabbos? So you're allowed to take, as long as... you have to eat. Just need a kezayis of bread. It's not that hard. That's no matter regular standard, average. That's exactly what we said. If a person is extremely overweight, then he needs it; otherwise, he's going to have a heart attack from taking it. Let him take his pills all day long. I'm talking about a regular, regular normal lady who's not Chinese, that she's fat, that she's not fat, right? How can a Chinese that they're fat even though they're not fat? So that's not so pashut, to say he's tiny, that it's not a problem anyway. It's not a problem anyway. That's what—what do you mean? I'm telling you, he's saying good. You don't know how good he's saying. I would kiss him if he was my son. I would get a kiss from him. Saying a good vort, what are you talking about? My son said he'd get a kush from his vort. Only thing is, so what about the ones that burn fat? I don't know, maybe it's a little different, huh? It's already changing the body. I don't know, I don't know. It's, it's—I'm calling upon him. You see that there's a sugya here. All I want is that there's a very broad sugya, what's called refuah and what's called maichal bri'im. And you see that we're tiptoeing on what, yeah, what, what, yeah, what not, what, yeah, what not, what, what—mishalshin dosheishin, yeah, refuah, okay? Okay. With this, rabosai, with this, rabosai, I want to discuss medicines, aspirins with you, okay? Oh, so there's aspirin, there's Tylenol, ibuprofen. I told this to you yesterday, right? Some of them work—actually some, I can tell you which. The aspirin and the ibuprofen work differently than the Tylenol. The aspirin, the ibuprofen are anti-inflammatory, and that's how you take away the pain. It's a medication, more. A Tylenol is a pain reliever. It just blocks the pain. In the lomdus that we're saying, a Tylenol, huh? You know, the codeine, it might be a better drug as far as Shabbos. It takes care of the pain. No, but Shabbos, how it takes care of the pain. If it takes care of the pain by being marpeh what's causing the pain, that l'choira might be a little worse. Ma she'ein kein, the Tylenol might be a little bit better, because if you learn of this lomdus, zicher not maichal briyim. Normal people don't eat this, right? You're not going to— Reb Shlomo Zalman's hagdaros of maichal briyim, everything is no good, right? Ma she'ein kein, if you start claring in what's exactly called refuah, if you have a choice, maybe you should take a Tylenol over it. Now, this is a thing I've been talking about for years, and it was a chiddush to me that he knew this. This doctor in the morning, what's his name? He came here in the morning. I was shocked that he knew this. What's his name? Dr. Zimmel. Dr. Zimmel said that he heard that it's better to take it. I couldn't believe he said that. I was flabbergasted. Yeah, I was flabbergasted. He told me he heard from Rabbi Monk maybe, I don't know. This vort, there's two things: there's refuah, and then there's stam something which alleviates the cause of... Not even the cause, just alleviates the pain. It could be it's better. Because one of my kids' Motrin works better than Tylenol. Kid is a choleh. A kid could be on any little thing. A kid is a choleh when he's... See, anything that— every time he's in pain, he's a choleh. That affects the problem, the advil. Yeah, yeah. Tylenol just masks the pain. Masks the pain. It's complicated. It has to do with the COX, C-O-E-Xs it's called. Cox's, it's with the blood. It's complicated, all right, but basically that's what it is. CEOX, it's called. Cox inhibitors, it's called. What? A tylen— l'choira, in lamdus, the Tylenol is better. And it was a chiddush to me that someone else also came... Huh? You'll understand vos is a Tylenol. Okay. Now, rabosai, now, rabosai, let's discuss the fiber and the fiber pills, all right? So first of all, there's two types of fiber: the soluble and non-soluble. Soluble fiber is oichel; it's real regular oichel. Now, this, that you take it in a pill form, I don't know if there's an issur to take food in a pill form. Is there an issur to take food in a pill form? Yeah. No, but I'm saying, even in Rav Shlomo Zalman's... I'm saying. It's just like the rabbi was saying with the coffee. Yeah, I'm saying, I don't know. You take, I mean, it's a soluble, I don't know, it's a food. Okay, the non-soluble, which is the stuff that you, that the Metamucil, right? So l'choira here it...

be telling the same shaila. It's not something which is taken normally, unless you're an older person, which I told yesterday is machlokes me and my father about that. But even if, let's say, it's something that's not taken normally, right? Not aspirin, the metamucil. No, I'm saying, but regular was talking about yesterday. No, the Metamucil. No, the aspirin you have to take anyway every day. Aspirin is something else. That's usually, if you have to take, you have to take. But the Metamucil, it's daily. It's a daily thing by older people. Those fibers, this Metamucil, right. That's nothing. That's sheker. Whatever. But kitzur, the point being, the point being that the Metamucil, the Metamucil is l'chora, but it doesn't work l'rfuah, though. It doesn't work l'rfuah. Meaning, ah, but the shaila is, is it like mishalshel? I don't know what, I don't know how, right. It's preventive, because otherwise it causes problems. It's just staying healthy. It's just, it's healthy to be cleaned out. No, it's more than that. It's staying healthy meaning because you're not— Can I just tell you, once you chap it, you chap what I'm saying. The shilshul is something that's mishalshel, which means it works on the guf that gets the person to be mishalshel. This doesn't work on the body at all. This is just, you can't digest this. It is regular psoles. There's no change in your body because you ate fiber. The other thing, taka works, that is a laxative. There's something called a laxative. A laxative makes that the body now, it can't— right, the muscles contract and it comes out. Mashenkin, this doesn't do anything. This is just regular psoles that you can't eat. It's like regular fiber, regular going— So, chayrif, if we're going to say that anything which isn't mamish refuah is mutar, then l'chayri you can be matir it also. Now, with this same nekudah, I want to talk about Ricola candies. Are you allowed to take a Ricola if you're not sick? You know, a person doesn't have a sore throat, he just likes it. Halt lieb Ricola candies. Not a big thing. There are plenty of people who hold they're not kosher during the week either. Okay, because they hold that there's no hechsher, whatever. I don't know, that's a technical. That's not a ... I just felt everybody should know that one. Yeah, okay. Okay, but let's say a throat lozenger. Guy wants to, he rather likes it. He likes the taste of a throat lozenge. That's a ... They say you should have halls. But anyway, fine. Okay. I'll casey ... The guy in the pharmacy said that the K-Cel doesn't hold of it either. They just don't want to say that you can't use it. That's what the guy in the ... Okay, let's go weiter. Now, so I don't know. Prune juice is a regular shtiyah. And ... We spoke about that. Anything that's tea, which is shtiyah, even though if you're mechaven l'refuah, it's mutar. What's the difference? I didn't say prune juice is different. I don't know. I said that I don't know what that is. Maybe it's only drunk, and when you ... I don't think regular people drink prune juice. Could be, yeah, sometimes people like it. Yeah, people do it. Cognac is whiskey. Cognac is whiskey. Cognac is whiskey. Okay. Now, rabosai, so are you allowed to do this? Are you allowed to take the Ricola when you're mechaven shelo l'refuah? So let's do now the first birchas. I hold a smuchah in the first birchas, and that's why, obviously. שדרך לשרויס לרפואה. So the Gemara: אי סתם, שלא יעשה כדרך שעושה בחול, right? ונפקא מינה, אפילו מתכוון בשבילו לשתייה בעלמא, אסמי טעם זה because of chol. Mashma, if it's not a problem of chol, right? If the problem isn't chol, then what's the halacha if it's refuah, שהוא מתכוון לשתייה? That's mutar. That's a chiddush in that birchas shitas, no? Everybody thinks pringles from Pesach. Yeah, pringles is something else. Obviously this was something which was more stringent than pringles. Okay. One second. Is he going with the girsa of the shroisai? This is going back, שדרך לשרויס, on the first one. Yeah, but is that with the girsa of the shroisai and not lishtosai? No, going back on the first yud-zayin. It's not even going on any girsaos. שדרך לשרויס. You want to know what? It's going on the maaseh, but it's the same again. It's on the maaseh, whatever. שדרך לשרויס לרפואה. The Gemara says, שלא יעשה כדרך שעושה בחול. ונפקא מינה, אפילו מתכוון בשבילו לשתייה.

The ... we tams out chol, but mashma that altz not oysim k'mo she'oisim b'chol. There's no problem. There's no asiyah involved. If there would be no asiyah involved, so refuah, which is mechamel l'shtiyah, choleh derech bilach shteit, mashma it's mutar. Something which is a refuah, meaning which could be refuah nishtiah and you're mechamel l'shtiyah, so I don't know, the Ricola candies maybe it should be mutar. I don't know. If a guy takes tons of vitamin C that is candy, candy vitamin C, because he likes candy, he's thirsty, he likes the candy. Now, I want to tell you about what we spoke yesterday. I hold, and I told this to you, that there are many, many gedolei acharonim, the Cheshek Shlomo and others, that say that the whole inyan of the vitamins today — actually, the medicine today — is very questionable. Okay. Now, I understand the sugya. Let me tell you the chomer of the sugya. L'maaseh, the Gemara in Beitzah daf lamed says clearly that today it says you're allowed to be meraked. The Tosafos says you're allowed to clap on Shabbos. Gezeirah shema ya'aseh klei shir. So the Tosafos says we don't know how to make klei shir anymore. Fragt the Taz, so how could you be matir it? You need a davar sheb'minyan. How can you matir a gezeirah? Yeah, gadol mehachacham. So there's a perek dar, a famous Rambam, I think it's kuf mem or kuf mem aleph, beis, somewhere in the kuf mems, that says clearly that the gezeiras chachamim, even if it doesn't apply bizman hazeh, is still aser. It's famous Rishonim. ... that you need beis din ... Yeah, but it depends. Depends what type of gezeirah we're talking about. Not every gezeirah falls under that. Basically, this is the sofek. Okay, bigrei. The kitzer, basically this is the sofek, okay. Now, the Cheshek Shlomo says it. So I went to look today. The Tzitz Eliezer says klar. So I'll tell you two places: Chelek Yud Aleph, siman lamed zayin. He goes by osiyos, so there's os beis, and Chelek Yud Daled, nun, os zayin, says clearly that you don't have to be so machmir. Where it's questionable medicine, you can be somech, and that's what I told you yesterday. I tell you that yesterday, when it's questionable medicine. So to start there, yes, al yibul, not al yibul. Is a fiber is an... is a sleeping pill, is not sleeping pill. Something which is klar refuah, you can asser. Something which is not klar refuah, what's the asser? Why should you asser it? You don't have to be so machmir, rabosai. This is what I was telling you yesterday, and I think it's emes l'amito. A posek, a rav has to keep his back in his mind, and zicher where you see that the guy is not feeling so well and you... let him take his medicine. ... life. ... So now, rabosai, let's go weiter. Let's go. We're doing it right now, so give me two minutes and let's go weiter. ... ein shoin es hachalatos. So mashma, if you put it into pito, it's good enough. When are you putting it into pito? So it says, taka lahalacha, if you put it erev Shabbos, so it's okay. And asi Reb Zalman brings it down, that if you put it into something, into other foods, it's mutar. L'maaseh says how many days before you're allowed to take it. So it says seven days, right? And then the girsa over here is three days, right? The Mishnah Berurah—who's reading the Mishnah Berurah? Shiva yamim? No, shiva yamim? Three days, says the Mishnah Berurah. Maaseh, Reb Shlomo Zalman, Reb Elyashiv, and the Piskei Teshuvos paskens even erev. If a person came and he put erev Shabbos, he ate his medicine, erev—started erev Shabbos—he's allowed to continue. Vaiter. Reb Shlomo says no. Reb Shlomo says only if it's a choleh. The only time you're allowed to take a medicine and continue taking it for seven days, it has to be that it's a choleh. Reb Shlomo Zalman says no. Anything that I start, it's a shaylah how to learn up the Shulchan Aruch. The heter if starting before—and what's the lomdus? It's a chiluk. So it's not pashut taking medicine on Shabbos; I actually started before Shabbos. How does that help? Huh? Because it's not the gezeirah. The gezeirah is משום שחיקת סממנין. Think of the lomdus of the gezeirah.

What's the ... say? You make the medicine. Yeah. So the guy's in the four Shabbos, he started taking before Shabbos, so now he has a problem on Shabbos. You might make more medicine might be. Yeshiva Zatzal held, no. It's in Orach Chaim, chelek gimmel, siman gimmel, that it has to be that there's a choleh involved. If there's no choleh, then אין רחמנא, you're not allowed to do it. No choleh. It has to be that you're sick. So I don't understand how... I've stopped. So choleh is a gevaldige shaylah. How, according to a yeshiva zatzal, could you ever take birth control pills? Unless you say that the choleh is that later on. Reb Dovid told me that the yeshiva zatzal held you're not allowed to take birth control pills, period, ever, unless you're really, really sick. I'll tell you, and I'll end with this, because if you want, continue after Shabbos. Oh, I'll tell you what happened. I went over to him and I asked Reb Dovid. This was at a chasunah, at a small wedding. Went over to him, I said, Yeshiva... small, meaning small, rabbi's family wedding. My family, my uncle, my cousin. Okay, the kids. I went over to him and I asked him this kasha. They say in Lakewood, b'sheim gedolim, that a person has two years between babies. So he says to me, What? There's no such thing. I go, What do you mean? But you know gedolim said it. He said, No, no gadol ever said it. I said, One second, one second, one second, yeshiva, you're telling me differently. He's ein zach, but don't tell me no gadol ever said it, because it's Reb Yankiv who said it. Everybody knows Reb Yankiv said it. I mean, it's like the famous, and they use this heter because Reb Shmuel has so many talmidim here in Philadelphia, and they all use Reb Shmuel, and Reb Shmuel was matir the two years. He tells to me, my father was dead against it. He said those yeshivas at the time was so upset about this. He said, What's the cheshbon? Because in the old days they used to nurse for two years, and they couldn't have children for two. Kol zman they nursed. So he says, Bizman הזה they do have children, so what is the shtan in the teva? So what are you going to do? So therefore you have to give them the two years. That's Reb Yankiv's psak. The whole rule goes with this psak. That since in the olden days they had two years because they nursed, so now that when they nurse they have babies, so you have to give them the two years. Two years means two years plus nine months? Two years till you want to try? Two years from the child. Until you... Two years from the birth of the child. Three years between. Three years, whatever, but two years from the birth. Right? So he said to me, the yeshiva asked, How you tachin smarter than the Eibishter? As the Eibishter veis the olam ma'ases, and He still made that you should be able to have chasim and that you didn't hold it. It's asur. Wait. Then I told him about a certain chassidishe rav in Borough Park, that... that's not true. So he was so sharp. I don't know if I should say, but not a... the vort. The vort he said was, you know...