Pidyon Shevuyim: The Gilad Shalit Prisoner Exchange, Ransoms, and Endangering Others

Transcript

Rishiva Zatzal wants that you take the pill and you put it into the liquid, Erev Shabbos. Okay, now I'm not going to go through the whole sugya. He learns it from kilurin in Shin Chaf Ches. I want to ta'ina that if you put it into applesauce, you don't have to do the Erev Shabbos, because it's like tevel pitum. I hold it's an emesdige svara. Rishiva talks about liquids. Liquids maybe is Erev Shabbos, but you put it into food, it's no different than food. It's a problem. Don't say here that you have to put it. Okay. L'choira, azoi halt the ma'aseh. Oh, come, let's—we have a lot to learn tonight. Come, let's go, come. So I just said it's mutar. I hold it's mutar. The Rishiva Zatzal's teshuva, okay, it's in Orach Chaim chelek gimmel. Here—no, didn't change the page. Orach Chaim chelek gimmel. Nun gimmel? I don't even have it. Okay, gimmel, nun gimmel. Okay. B'kitzur, nacha nekudah. If medicine is put into applesauce, that's not the Rishiva's teshuva. Okay, next. What does he say? He says you should do it Erev Shabbos, and he shtells it from kilurin in Shin Chaf Ches. We have a lot to go. I have tons of stuff to do tonight. We're doing everything tonight. Let's go. I'm not here for Shabbos. We got to get going. I can't be here for Shabbos. My brother's making a bris in White... Okay, come on, please. I almost plopped tonight because of the bitul Torah. This is... What should I do? Tell me what you want me to do. You want me to fight my whole family? What do you want from me? Okay, b'kitzur. You ready? You ready? No, no, no. You ready? Let's go. We have to go. Come, now. Nacha nikud, a mouthwash, from this and Karelitz, and then Reb Shlomo Zalman, they all say it's aser, okay? And a septic, the one that has an antiseptic in it, the Listerine one. Regular mouthwash doesn't have... Mouthwash is nothing. Because it has a medicine in it, it has an antiseptic, it kills the germs or whatever. And Scope doesn't kill germs? Scope is nothing. Just gives you good breath. It's a refresher. Okay, b'kitzar maaseh, rabosai, I don't agree with this. I don't agree with it. You know why? Why is it different than your me'ariv? I don't say it's not—the whole thing is not germ-killing; it's a regular liquid, and then it has an antiseptic. It's not niker. It's not niker. There's no niker. So if it worst comes to worst, anyone knows the difference if it's Listerine or Scope. The only thing is if you want to be a frummy, take off the cover, and that's whatever. So I don't see it's a problem. It doesn't make sense. I don't understand. What is it? No, but I'm saying, what is it already? What, it's a medicine, so it has in it antiseptic. So why is it different than Shin chaf aleph that we learned? If it's me'urav in it, it's not niker, it's not niker. We learned this. That's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. No, I'm saying the tachlis of the whole thing isn't antiseptic. No, it's not. It's a mouthwash. Shin chaf aleph, what is it, yud zayin, yud ches. You know what I'm saying? So we—okay, next. I'm rushing, so I'm going to stutter a little bit, rabosai, because I have to get everything out. Let's go, come on. Next, next nekudah. This thing that if you take it from Erev Shabbos, it's mutar. Rebbi Yoshua says even one day before, if you start from Erev Shabbos, it's already mutar, right? It's mutar. Any medicine, any medicine, once you start from Erev Shabbos, mutar. If you had a headache start on Friday, you start taking it on Friday, you could take it on Shabbos also? I don't agree with that. Meaning, I hold—I'm asking, not saying. So I hold that he means a medicine that's nimshach. So you could come and say I started Erev Shabbos, but something which is a six-hour thing, like I have a headache now—yes, I have a headache now, it goes away now—so what? So the medicine of Erev Shabbos, Shabbos... I would be mechalek in this. Let's say, for example, the sinus things. The sinus thing is, I take it now, it goes away for two, three hours, or whatever, it's five hours. So just because I started, it's something that builds up in the body. You can come and make a... It's not something that it's a three days, five days, one day plan. A hundred percent. It's clear. There's something that you take once and take again and again. As far as Ace bandages and then these things, okay, so Reb Shlomo Zalman holds it's mutar because anything which has no shchikas samemanim, it's not medicines, is mutar. Like bandages. Reb Shlomo Zalman says it. So bandage you're allowed to use. In Shulchan... there's different mekoros. I don't have time. You want, I'll give you my notes, you'll take it, okay? You're allowed to use bandages. Not Ace bandages. Same thing, it's not a refuah. It's not a refuah. He says it doesn't have like a lot of lotion. It's not a refuah. It's not l'rapos. It's meant to cover things, so all these things are mutar. Point being, point being, now I want to tell you this. I'm not 100% sure how this works, because the truth is, I showed you in Kuf Lamed, you don't need shchikas samemanim. Didn't you read that yesterday? Hisamlus is aser. Ay, you don't do shchikas samemanim. Says the Mishnah Berurah, you might come in, if it doesn't work out, to take samemanim. So it depends what I'm doing. If the—

Bandages just to take away the nifuach. So the Mishnah Berurah writes clearly that you're allowed to put a kli on your thing to take away the nifuach. It says that clearly, okay? Nifuach means if it's swollen. That the Mishnah Berurah says in Shin Chav Ches, okay? So that's the same thing, an eis bandage to take away the nifuach, or ice. That's what they talk about, if you're allowed to put ice. It's all the same nekudos. But if, let's say it's for temperature, you're putting the ice, or you're putting the eis bandage for pain, don't tell me it's not this Mishnah Berurah, Kuf Lamed, that if it doesn't work out you'll take medicine. Honestly, if let's say you try to take down your temperature, if it doesn't work you'll take an aspirin. So what's the difference than a samim? I don't see, there's a Mishnah Berurah. I mean, you're ignoring it. All these halachos are ignoring that Mishnah Berurah. I don't know what to tell you. Kuf Lamed, Shin Chav Ches, Kuf Lamed. Learn it, see it, and I told you the whole yesod is over there. Anything which will l'maaseh come to shchikas samimonim is a problem. Anything which you won't come to shchikas samimonim, אי למעשה it's refuah and there's a gezeirah, we don't care about that. Remember, any—I'm telling you, keep this in your back pocket. Wherever you go, Shin Chav Ches, Kuf Lamed, it's—the whole yesod is in there. Kuf Lamed. See Kuf Lamed. I'm telling you, listen to me. Refuah is my thing. That's my department. That's what I'm good at, you know what I'm saying? Before I learned Mishnah Berurah, I was busy with this, you know what I mean? This is it. This is Kuf Lamed. The whole thing boils down to Kuf Lamed. Something which is not even a refuah l'maaseh, but it will bring you lidei refuah that you might do shchikas samimonim, that becomes asur. So forget about the tzitz Eliezer that it's mutar. I'm saying that's something else. That I told you, whenever you have a question if a fiber is or isn't, okay, you can have a tzitz. Leave it alone, because anyway not b'shchikas samimonim today. But it's all the same yesod, and where did I see? The Rosh Yeshiva said this, that if, let's say, you have a heker... That was his word. In the case you put it into water, so you have a heter that you're trying to not take semanim, and vertes mutter, because you're not going to come lidei shechikas samanim. What do you mean? You're taking it for four shops. What are you talking about? Teretz is, you yourself have a heter, and you won't come to do shechikas samanim. The halacha is they're built in with that. They're built in with that. That's what I'm trying to say. There you say, and Reb Shlomo Zalman zichrono livracha learns like that. In Eis Banim shehu refuah, he says since it doesn't have anything to do with shechikas samanim. So you see, they weren't assering refuah. They're assering things that will come, and the Mishnah Berurah says, and hachanami, if this will bring you lidei shechikas samanim, vertes asur. I don't understand what Reb Shlomo Zalman means, that this doesn't bring you lidei shechikas samanim. I don't understand what that means. He says it clearly by these? He says it clearly by eis bandage. He said by retainer? By pain. Huh? Eis bandage for pain? He doesn't say. He just says eis bandage. He says about the T thing, the ice. ... out of place. So what do they do it for? Depends what you do it for. If they do it to straighten the thing out, an ace bandage, then it's mutter, then I'm maskim. Maybe that's what Reb Shlomo Zalman only meant. But if the pshat is they do it for pain also, when a kid hurts him, so you put an ace bandage, it keeps the thing sturdy, a brace. It depends what the reason is. Sometimes the brace is not to move the hand, so she'll be in pain. It's kuf lamed. I didn't make it up. ... stay put. Oh, saying if you do it because of that, you're going to do it. Because you'll take an aspirin. If the pain, he says it clearly, if you're not mazia, you're afraid that you'll bring something to make mazia. He says it clearly. That's ... that if you're exercising not through refuah, yes it does, because if you don't have the mazia afterwards, you're going to end up coming to it. So, ... it's clear. Okay, this is halacha l'maaseh, okay? And if you want all the pratim around it, you have to take my notes. Okay, next. No, you have to give me a bracha, it's about refuah. Okay, next nekudah. It's mutar. They should do the thing with shalit a hundred percent. They want to trade the Arabs, the prisoners for Shalit. So everybody yells, pidyon shvuyim, yoser mi'dei d'meihen, v'ganze tumah, yeah? Shalit, he is frum, reishis kol. Reishis kol, he is frum. What's the difference? Isn't there a shakla v'tarya whether it's b'chalal pidyon shvuyim if he's not frum? Chas v'shalom. Where'd you get this from? Chas v'shalom. So what I heard, with Chaim, with Chaim Brisk, there was a guy, he was a big rasha, captured, a rasha, vos willstu fun a rasha? And he wanted to take the money, and Chaim said, I'm not going for kol nidrei. A rasha, vos redt? How can you compare a rasha to a frum Yid? I'm saying, okay, saying even by Chaim Brisk, because they said he was a rasha. Yeah, what's a rasha? And Chaim said, I'm not eating, and nobody ate ... Beautiful. ... Now you know where.

You know why Reb Chaim was zoche? Because ... I gotta ... For me, it's a chiluk. I know where the shtus comes. It's a shtus in misunderstanding the teshuvas HaRadbaz. It's a shtus. It's mamash a shtus. It's a shtus she'ein kamoihu. What is it? I'll tell you soon. I'll tell you soon. So let's take out—let's go, let's go, let's go. You want to hear, so you have to go quickly today. Gemara, let's go. Gemara, let's go. So reishis kol, before you start this sugya, rabosai, daf from this, there's a tremendous tzaar. He's a young boy. He's a young kid. Nineteen-year-old kid. That's the first thing before you start a—before a posek begins a sugya like this, first see the nidon. Who are you talking about? Have a picture of the man in front of you. Now you can start handling about his life, okay? The parents, v'chulei v'chulei. Okay, go ahead, leizeh, this is your sugya tonight. Come on, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Okay, so, we have the Gemara, mem-hei amud aleph. The Mishnah: Ein podim es hashvuyim yoser al kedei demeihem. What's tikun olam? Gemara, two reasons. Quickly, quickly, quickly, two reasons. What's tikun olam? Tikkun d'tzibura. The goyim have no money. What, are you gonna start taking big money from them? Okay, wait a minute, so we'll talk. It has nothing to do with—I'm saying that when it's negea to money, it's taka this, this, it's taka mutar. But there's a second taam in the Gemara. What's the second taam in the Gemara? They'll do it more often. They'll do it again and again. Zog Rashi, the nafka mina is very poshut. If it's alts money, if he has private funding, then it's mutar. But if it's they'll do it again, then you can't, because they'll do it again. It's a shaylah of another year. Yeah, klar? Okay, you see the Rashi. Yeah, it's very negea. Good. Okay, now in our case, d'tzibur is negea? No, right? It's not negea, right? The second reason, avada, avada is very, very negea. How do we pasken l'maaseh? You see where the little ois is? On the second time, right? This is a machlokes rishonim: how do we pasken? The Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch pasken like the second time. The Ran says we're mesupak how to pasken, and we could always say kim li. You could always say, I hold like the first time. The Bach goes with the first. Whenever you want to pasken, a person could come say, I want to be poideh. I did the Gemara, ... it chalked the first teretz of the Gemara. It's the Ran, the Ran here from the amud. What does the Shulchan Aruch pasken? Paskens al the second time. Take out the Rambam, take out Shulchan Aruch, Reish Nun Beis, let's go. It's in Hilchos Tzedakah, let's go. The Rambam matir ... Perek daled, I think. Perek daled, right over here, Perek daled—no, I'm sorry, Perek ches, halacha yud-beis. Smell, smell, smell, smell. Rambams. Okay, so we pasken that the tam is, nu nu, second time. Okay, good. Okay, now. The Maharshal in Yam Shel Shlomo ... The Rambam paskens like the second time. Who paskens like the first time? The Bach paskens—Bach—and the Ran says you could ... because the Gemara didn't come to maskana. You don't see a maskana in the Gemara, right? Gemara says two times, so it's a ... Go ahead, go. Lein, lein, lein Rambam, lein Shulchan Aruch, let's go. Come on, come on, come on, come on. The Rambam and the Shulchan Aruch pasken the second reason. Yeah. The Bach paskens the first reason. Correct. On his own, whatever, that's how he paskens, though. It's like the first reason. And the Ran says it's a safek. It's a safek. Okay, so it's very nogea, right? I could always say, you know what, ich halt like this tam, so therefore I'm going to be poideh even ... Where it's, let's say in Rashi's case, let's say it's aviv, so according to the second tam, aviv is not allowed, but according to the first tam is allowed. So aviv is allowed to say, you know what, it's a shaila in the Gemara, ich halt like the first tam. I don't know. I'm going to show you Rav Chaim Kanievsky, chiddush nifla; he goes with the Bach. He writes it clearly. I'm going to write him a letter. I don't understand how he can even write it on the Rambam that says— He goes with the Bach. You'll soon see, you'll soon see. Now, if you look at Tosafos, daf nun ches, ... halachah yud-beis. So, Kesuvos, nun, nun, nun, nun ches. I'm gonna sound crazy. Over here, you're bringing teretz back. We're not holding there, we're not holding there. We have more dichuy than ... Blaz up, blaz up. We're gonna talk about—we're not gonna talk about all this. We'll talk—there's a lot here, because that's a dichuy d'sibur, like you'll never find. Good, we'll talk about all this, okay? We'll talk about it. Go ahead. Tosafos, get nun ches, let's go. Vaiter, vaiter, vaiter, vaiter. Schnell, schnell. Nun ches. Nun ches of an aleph. Where did we get to? Huh? You got it, you got it. Nun ches of an aleph, top Tosafos. Nun ches? Yeah, nun ches, top Tosafos. Oh, ... Yes, he says over there that— Right, now he's gonna be ... That's the second teretz, but what's the first teretz? There's two terutzim. So you're allowed to be ... Whenever it's sakanas nefashos, you're allowed to. Do we pasken like this Tosafos? The Yam Shel Shlomo paskens like this Tosafos. Why? Because it's the first teretz and he gives a second teretz. So what are the klalim in Tosafos when there's two terutzim?

Maybe the second teretz is zikah; the first teretz is just a doichek, big re'ayah. Yam Shel Shlomo paskens like this teretz of Tosafos. Problem is, Tosafos doesn't say it over by us on nun daled; he should have said it by isha by the sugya. Look quickly at Tosafos, nun daled. No, no, no, no. You saw the Rambam. What does Rambam say? Ein podin before one month in. What does it say in Shulchan Aruch? It come for more. What does it say in the Tur? I'm sorry, the Tur also said. What does the Bach say? No, no, we pasken like the first teretz. Go ahead, nu. ... Risha'i lifdoso. Good, which means you're allowed to. This Tosafos is talking about even the ta'anah of tzreicha ... That's right, that's right, that's right. How do they pasken the Yam Shel Shlomo? Yam Shel Shlomo paskens with this thing. Okay, now the first teretz says there's sakanas nefashos, there's pikuach nefesh. What, what, what, what, what? Then when there's sakanas nefashos, then you don't have the takanah. You don't have the takanah, right? Good. Klar, you have it? You have it, klar? How come Tosafos doesn't answer over here by isha? He should have said it; he should have brought it down. Read it. What do you want from me? You also have it. Go ahead, nu. No, no, no, you were one page already. Top Tosafos, nu. What? Nun daled amud beis, top Tosafos. Top Tosafos by isha, no? We're back on — we on the ...? I told him, I said nun daled, excuse me, mem-hei, mem-hei. Why? Excuse me, back to where we were, mem-hei, top Tosafos. Mem-hei, top Tosafos, let's go. That's the whole shaila, that's the nidon: how do we pasken? Is there, isn't there? Do we say that Tosafos doesn't hold of this real teretz of sakanas nefashos, huh? You have it? Oh, which Tosafos? Oh, you have it. Tosafos says by isha yoismes dameha baal. There's a whole sugya that a baal is mechuyav to take care of his wife even if she yoismes dameha. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead, read it. ... Yeah. ... Who says sakana? ... Das is a sakana. ... Das is a sakana. ... Das is this. ... Shabbos talks about it. ... Mumeres talks about other things. ... By the way, even when he ... Mumeres. ... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. ... Shailah is what is he chov? Shailah is what is he chov. ... Okay, now let's apply it to bissul, a bissul l'maaseh. You hear? Okay. Are they gonna— Yeah, because we have a lot, a lot, a lot to do tonight. And this is without knowing about this putting fifteen chairs. We have a lot. I still want to go through a ... on earthquake. What a ... They had another one a couple days ago. Another one was aftershock. It was an aftershock. It was an aftershock. It was six. It was a six, which means— Hey, you know, okay, who's counting? ... Yeah. ... It's a big chesed Hashem. It's a major chesed, and it didn't have to— ... Avadah, it's a chesed Hashem. Two hundred thousand, they say. Yeah? Two hundred thousand just dead. Do you understand how they save the people? They cut off their eivarim. They have to cut off their hands and legs because they can't take them out. Why? ... No, they're stuck. Yeah, they're stuck in the rubble. They cut them as they take them out. Why? With a chainsaw. You know, the chainsaw bothers me, the chainsaw. What they do? They do with a chainsaw. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought it was just... I can't believe it. That's how they do it. Most of the operations now is the cutting off of their arms. What, cutting? Putting them back. Hands and legs. They're cutting off hands and legs. They're cutting them off. They say the people from Zaka, in a disproportionate amount more. Yeah, they say more. That's the rate. The BBC had it. More. Israel was very good at it because they're limited. Working right away, while everyone else is busy with, oh, who's going to take control, whatever, and they're fighting over control there. The thing answers... okay, let's go back. People would rather die than live without... Rachmanus. You know what, it's...

It's an unbelievable story. It's an unbelievable, it's an unbelievable churban. We're gonna talk. If you let me, there's three pages, two and a half, three pages, Reb Chatzko, every word, kedushah. I can't believe a shmooze like this was said in Ponovezh yeshiva. Half a... He was in Shanghai when that... No, no, no. He talks about that he was in Radin when the thing was in Shanghai. He was in Radin. He writes that he was by the Chofetz Chaim. He was by the Chofetz Chaim shmoozing about the earthquake. Chofetz Chaim gave a whole shmooze on the earthquake. He says he was busy with it a few times. Chofetz Chaim was busy with it. He was very busy. ... is the third teretz, besides for ... No, no. That one might apply to us. Now he b'shas churban habayis was shayach to l'hilachem. What does he mean? That they would do it anyway? No, because it was a war. It wasn't a captive. That's a Rishonim. You have to know the Rishonim. There's a whole—let me tell you where I remember seeing it, nachamo, nachamo, nachamo. Explain, give me a second. No, no, it's a different vort. It's the Romans. I'm trying to remember if I saw it in the Radbaz. I saw in one of the Acharonim years ago that when there's a war, it's not captive for prisoner exchange. It's not meant for that. It's a prisoner exchange and not a kidnapping. It's not a killing, and it's not trying to get money from them. It wasn't meant for that. There was a war, and that was it. So they took captives. Now you want to get back your captives, take them. It's not going to be done again and again. The svara is that it's not going to be done again and again. Captives of war is not pidyon shvuyim. That has this problem. They don't have to bench gomel when they come out? That's something else. You say you're not afraid that they're going to go to try to do it again because it wasn't meant for that. Why did they do it the first time? Because they took captives during war. They took captives during war. It's a red pas. Okay. Kitzad ha'dvarim. Let's talk now, gilat shalit, l'maaseh. You think for one minute—let's say, let's take it the other way around—they're definitely not claiming to kill him. That's definitely not. No, no, no, slowly. You know what? Let me just say it the way, because I chose my words here. I want to read you the way I wrote it here. Now, v'yesh ladun, okay? V'yesh ladun, ha'im hachayal hazeh b'sakanah al chayav, im lo yimaalu ritzonam. D'afilu im lo ta'inu v'omrim sheyahargu. Let's say they claim they're not going to kill him. V'chein hanohag shelhem shelo l'hargehu. And that's even customarily, because they need it. You don't understand. They bargain chip. They're never going to kill him. They can't kill him. To them, it's a goodies. This is what they have over Israel. It's the only thing they have. Okay? Wait. Now, wait a second. So unless they'll come—the only way they'll kill him is if they come to rescue. If they try to rescue, right, like Waxman, when they try to rescue, then they'll come, right? Now, unless you say—unless you say—yeah, unless you say, l'maaseh he's in the hands of the rotzchim. At any moment they can get angry, meshugah, and they can kill him. So what do you call that? Would you call that that he's in sakanas chayav or not sakanas chayav? Forget about yisurim. I'm going to get to that in a few minutes. Is that called sakanas chayav? And then I want to say, and even forget about sakanas chayav, right? I mean, he's a young guy. He can go crazy from it. How much could he be sovel? Maybe that's called sakanas chayav. Chayim means he has to have a bullet in his head. If a guy becomes meshugah from it, there's tiruf hadaas. That's also chayiv. What's the din when in Shabbos? In Shabbos it's called sakanas chayiv. Chavrada. He's not there already. What? He didn't get to that point already. Whatever it is, I'm just saying, it's a safek. It's a safek. You know what I'm doing? Listen to what I'm doing. What I'm doing is I'm chipping away at even the chiyuv, sakanas chayiv. What does sakanas chayiv mean? It means it has to be vadai that they're saying they're going to kill him? Maybe not. Even the fact that they could kill him is already something. So when is it not sakanah? Okay, so let's talk. I don't know. You want to know something? There is a case where they made the takanah. When is that? So it could be where it's in the hands of—not rotzchim, in the hands of ganavim. You're in the hands of ganavim. There's a different sugya. When you're in the hands of professional kidnappers, they're not killing people. Down in Mexico. Mexico, there's ... left and right. You had the menshes, akukaratcha, and they gave vayter, you know what I mean? Akakaratcha, whatever they say over there, and then they kill and they go vayter. Okay. Now, I want to go one step further, okay? The Radbaz in siman mem brings down that you don't need mamash sakanah l'chayav. Even a sakanah tehei emunah. If they come and they're going to make him ois, you know, whatever, ...

Or whatever it is, or she'anseihu l'chalel Shabbos, o shemarivin oiseh, or they're starving him. Now, I'm explaining that marivim doesn't have to be marivim to death. Marivim means yisurim, concentration camp. You don't need marivim; it has to be marivim in the Radbaz, to... The Gemara says, אילו נגדו לחנני מישאל ועזריה, it's even worse. Yisurim could be worse. They don't know the limit. Concentration camp was six days without food. Six days without food. The truth is, the pictures that they took, they analyzed, he's tortured. They're torturing him. They're torturing him. So it's a shayla if you hold it as Tosafos, right? Okay. Now... yeah, okay, so I have to go through the cheshbon. Maybe this Tosafos is going without the second teretz. Maybe this Tosafos is going in the first teretz. ... of sakana is going with, yeah. Why? Because in the second teretz, you have a chashash that they'll do to other people; maybe you don't have enough to save yourself with that. Right? So this is a good cheshbon. Could be that the Tosafos—and that's, so Tosafos over there is coming with a cheshbon, sakanas chayav, because he's taka paskening duchka d'tzibura. But ein hachanami, if you make the cheshbon, yeah, and in the second teretz is because it's in the sugya, so what's he going to give that? It's תלוי in the second teretz. Vos zogst der maaseh, you're very tired tonight, huh? But you hear the... maybe Tosafos is going with the sevara of duchka d'tzibura. In tosafos, ... so he doesn't bring down. He doesn't bring it down, right. The sakana is not an answer, because ... Now, I want to tell you this. When I was ... I'll tell you a mayseh ... You should not hear anywhere else. Reb Michl Sherkin told me once that in Europe, the Nazis had lists, in the beginning, they had lists to be deported. You were able to buy yourself originally off the list for a lot of money. The shaylah was, if you buy yourself off the list, then someone else is going to come. They're going to put another Yid. Why? Because they're filling a list, a quota. They were taking 500 people. Tremendous shaylah, one of the biggest shaylos. The lines, these are the shaylos, okay? Reb Michl Sherkin told me that they paskened that it was asur. In Europe they paskened that it was asur, with ... You're saving yourself through the other guy. Reb Chaim says a whole vort that the din of yehareg v'al ya'avor is only where you're doing the ma'aseh retzichah. But if you're being a bullet, you're being used — the first Reb Chaim — if you're being used, so choireh, he is not doing the ma'aseh retzichah; you're just buying yourself off. It's even better than being the bullet. Yeah, that's maybe ... What about some whatever? That is the ... That is the ... That's what he's going on. Inoch nami, but don't be ... Don't be ... when it comes to ... Once it's chayav, it can't be ... Once there's no halachah, then you're not allowed to do it. You wouldn't be allowed to ... Yeah, I'm sorry, what did you say, Reb Shapsi? I seem to remember that there's an etzem yehareg v'al ya'avor ... Chaim is learning the sugya that way. But that ... there's different ways to learn the sugya also, that the ... goes with this ma'aseh. Reb Chaim's ... the first Reb Chaim. So he told me, a michal shurkin, that das eit mir gepasken. So I went to a bus sheirela, and then I'm on a bus. It's funny because I think one of the whole history. I was sitting next to him, and I had a cousin on the bus, didn't know who he was. He looks like a ... I met him on the bus. Very interesting. Why? What? What's wrong? He doesn't take the bus? I met him on the bus. I went with him to yeshiva on a bus. Maybe it was yeshiva. Oh, the yeshiva bus. Was it the yeshiva's regular bus? I mean, there are pictures of Rav ... on the bus, like a ... on the bus. Rav Asher said somebody asked him once how he became Rav Asher. There's got two ... to the story. It was a regular bus, unless they have a special bus. They have a special bus to the yeshiva, sure. That bus on the corner, you know what I'm saying, when you make the right turn, that's— I don't know. I was on— I had a— Anyway, this is how the story— it could be different. Could be this is how the story went. Anyways, my cousin was on the bus. Oh yeah, what do you want to say? No, they asked Rav Asher how did he become Rav Asher. He said that when everybody else used their money to buy sefarim, I just used the yeshiva's money. I used my money to take a taxi rather than go on a public bus and see the pritzus.

I sat with him on a bus. I sat on a bus next to him. When his gabbai also did, he spent all his money to take taxis and not to go on a bus. Okay, I sat next to him. He was sitting on the right seat of the thing, and I was on the left seat, and right in front of me was Shaul Small, my cousin. Shaul Small doesn't know Reb Asher Ayeli. So while I'm talking to Reb Asher, he's bothering me about every narishkeit. I keep on telling him, I can't talk to you right now. I want to talk. So finally I said to him, It's Reb Asher Ayeli. ... I'm talking to him and learning. He was like— you know, in those days he looked like a regular ... Kids, I asked him this kashya. You know what he looked— he tells me, ... So I tell him, Good, ... I wanted to get a teretz. Good, good, ... That's what I want from you. ... You've just misunderstood me. We're discussing the pidyon shvuyim, okay? Came out lahalacha it's muttar. ... You're chayiv to do it. You're wrong. You didn't learn the sugya. Did you learn the sugya? I've had this ... for months. I said muttar. No, I have two ... Who's ...? I'm not going to say who it is. That's just something ... If it's a chashash ketolah— chashash ketolah, a chashash ketolah on other people also. So there's a ... You're chayiv to put yourself in a safek sakanah to save a guy ... He's a vadai? Vadai sakanah? He's in sakanah. The guy's now in sakanah. This might be. What are you talking about? It's a vadai sakanah also, the other way. Why is it a vadai sakanah? What are you talking about? That he's going to get out and he's going to start making terror and he'll be matzliach? It happens ... That's what happens. Just two weeks ago, two guys ... murdered somebody. The statistics are a hundred percent. I'm not saying it's vadai. Anyways, so let me just tell you. Can you tell me who said why? I'm nothing. I'm only other rabbi, other rabbi, no. Why not? There wasn't a psak yet. When it comes to a din, that's when... I've written stuff that he's made to the heter, but... I mean, it's this halacha of ketalah. We pasken like this Tosafos, no? But that's a very important psak, because that means that Shas is going to go. No, but you hear the Tosafos. The Tosafos, you hear that anything which is shas ketalah, and not only shas ketalah, not only shas ketalah. It says even the issurim and marivin oisein chilul Shabbos. This sugya is talking about money. We're saying it's aser because of letting terrorists out. So maybe only ... therefore you can give up money. Who tells you you pasken like the second teretz? What right do you have to tell this father that we pasken like the second teretz? You're a posek that says that you pasken like the second teretz. I'm kidding. He thinks I'm getting angry. I like the Shulchan Aruch. I have no problem with him. Yeah? Okay, so then let me show you, let me show you that Rav Chaim Kanievsky brings the Bach. He paskens like the Bach, okay? All right, just to throw out the... I don't care if the whole shiur is not l'fi haseder. So, okay, here. Here he is. Matnas Aniyim, perek ches, halacha yud-gimmel. Here. Here. Aval im hu atzmo yachol livdois b'chol ma sheyirtze. He himself, right. V'acharonim pasku, d'gam eshar krovav. V'afilu es kol ha'adam im rotze yachol livdois b'kamah sheyirtze, ela she'eino chayaves. D'ikar ta'am mishum dochak hatzibur. Oh, so he paskens like the Bach. Rav Chaim Kanievsky paskens like the Bach. I don't know. You, I know you don't know. I'm sorry, I'm getting very angry. I have nothing personal. It's not real. It's all... So we're talking, we're in different ballgame. You're not in a different ballgame. You're worried about the takanah. So let's say you're right about the takanah. I'm making my own takanah. I can't do that. You make your own takanah? My own sevara. Yeah? Yes. What about the first teretz? They didn't know this cheshbon. The Pischei Teshuva asks this for a kasha. What about the first cheshbon? What if the Gemara says that the father can do it? Maybe it's going to happen again. The Gemara is talking about a problem. I'm not worried about maybe it happening again. But I'm asking you, why not? That's— no, that I'm worried about also, but I'm saying— But you just told me there's a worse problem. But you're telling me a cheshbon that it's someone else's problem. No, there's two kashas. There's a kasha. I'm asking you, that's the kasha that'll happen again. What's that kasha? You're hurting another Yid. What's that kasha, that maybe another Yid will be a nizakon? But he thought the father— we have no right to— ... says we can't stop the father. But that's not what we pasken. ... וגם ... שאפילו כל אדם ... שיש ... העיקר הטעם משום דוחק הציבור. Let me ask you a different kasha. Let me ask you a different kasha. In this sugya, the Radvaz says clearly, and the—

Can't bring it down to the bottom also. You hear? It says clearly. Oh, here it is, maybe. U'vemakom sheyesh chash sheyageu. U'vemakom sheyesh chash sheyageu. Nechleku Acharonim, v'kasvu d'bizmaneinu l'kul alma chayavin lifdosam b'makom sakanas nefashos. Chayav lifdosa, money. What's the difference? These are worth less than money. What is that? This is worth a lot more than money. This is keeping terrorists off the street. Money is nothing. Money you could collect, money you could this. We didn't see the... The only... Efsher is that he's a vadai killed if they don't ransom him, and they're only a safek, but still. That's what I'm telling you. That's the cheshbon, safek vadai. Stay, stay, stay. ... I have a very good point here. Yes, what do you want to say? No, you were clarifying the Tosafos, the ... where he goes through sakanah, is that maybe only going in the teretz of the first teretz. Yeah, which is not— you can't say that. Which is mamash a pshat teshuvah. I'll tell you what you can't say. Daled and hei. Rishonim, take it out. What's Tosafos's kashya b'chalal if he's going in that teretz? Maybe he was using his own money. The Gemara never says that he got money from the tzibur. What's the kasha? Kibel maisi, he's not gores there. Okay, so Tos is not gores there. What do you mean Tos is not gores? I guess Tos is not talking about whose money it is. He didn't go into that. So Tos is learning it's our money. Tos is saying it's our money. You're asking a kasha. He didn't answer, well, maybe he uses his own money. Yes, obviously he doesn't go with that, but what do you mean medayek from that? Now maybe he's going in the second teretz, and he's saying that— I don't know. No, I'm helping you. No, you know you're helping, but I don't know the cheshbon so well. I don't know. That's the second one, the second one. That's the second one. The first one. The first one. That's hei, daled, vav. It's ... you can do however much you want. However much you want, then whoever's ... raises the mishubach. Ella, ma you talk about this, that it's a sakanah. So look at the Beis Yosef, Choshen Mishpat, siman daled, that you're supposed to put yourself in a safek sakanah to save a guy from a sakanah. So what's your shaylah here? You hold that the people in the street are vadai sakanah? More likely than him. Him they're not killing right now. As soon as they go— What does a mama says? We're all ... What'd you say? They could be. Every single time. They're both safek. What? They're both safek? So maybe it's okay. Both safek, both vadai. Is that emes? Is that emes? I didn't say for sure. The people on the street are vadai, he's a safek. But I know it's not true. The statistics are that a hundred percent of the time ... It could be he's right. They want to keep him. They don't want to kill him. And every time— We started with this. That's where we start. They have nothing to gain. But you want to know something? All it takes is that you get one fight with his wife, that guy over there that's holding him, and he kills him. ... And any little thing, they get angry, and they claim that he's being tortured. That's called being tortured. He's ... Rabas. Rabas says you feel for torture. Yeah, but even for vadai ... I'm telling you, even in the vadai ... torture is ... he says. Even if the guy, you're gonna kill someone else? I'm just telling you, you don't know that. Okay, ... but you guys have a chazakah. If every single time they let out a terrorist, he went and killed, does that mean that doesn't mean anything at all? Okay, so I'll tell you what I know in halacha about statistics. There was a whole shaila years ago about brain surgeries, because you're putting the guy into a matzav of sakana. What are the chances of him surviving it? Could be very little: one, two, three, ten percent, yeah? So are you allowed, huh? Survival brain surgery is that little? Those days. I mean, I'm telling you, l'maaseh shehayah, we went to Rav Neuberger, it was negea to a case. Went to Rav Neuberger, went to Rav Chatzkel Roth, we went to a few dayanim, the Debretziner, we went to many people. Yeah, but he has no chance of living b'chalal. Oh, that's the nekudah. The nekudah is like this: but you're not allowed to be chayva, but b'yadayim. That's the question, because what you're doing is you might kill him. The question was, are you—you do the surgery, he might die during surgery, right? The chances are he's gonna die during...

Surgery. If you don't do the surgery, he's also going to die. He's going to die, not through you. Not through you. And there's a chance that maybe there'll be something. So the shaila is, what do you do? A meyridige shayla. So the poskim all said, you have to—I even went to Reb David, I remember I went to Reb David also—you have to make a cheshbon, the statistics. What are the statistics? If roiv is going to say that they'll live, you're mechuyiv to do it. And if roiv not, then it's 50%. It's a 50%. So you hold it's a 50% chance. That's clear. These people have a chazakah; they've already done something. They're in jail. They didn't pick flowers; they're in jail. Between a hundred terrorists attacked, so the hundreds—this is their whole life is to kill. Especially. I'm saying that however many terrorists, that's how many Yidden they're going to kill. I think one of them is not going to go to the Yidden. One of them is not going to. And metim lamut—you know, metim lichyos—they can't wait to die. Metim lamut. I need to pasken that Reb Chaim paskens l'disbach. It's a pele to me. I haven't found it yet. It's the Friday night, the first eis. The thing on the top is, is this halacha? No, that's the Rambam. And in the Rambam, the Rambam says the second time—Rambam says clearly, second time—and Reb Chaim paskens that the ikar is the first time. What's Reb Chaim wrote there? I can't understand how Reb Chaim could write that. He's mefaresh the Rambam, huh? Yeah. I want to know if Rebbi spoke to the parents of a child that was killed from the terrorist attack. How does that parent feel? I don't understand that. You walk in the street. There's sakana to live in Eretz Yisrael, so what are you going to come and say, that Israel shouldn't go to war because they'll take nekama? Should Israel not go to war because they'll take nekama? You're missing my point. You're missing my point. Can you make a cheshbon that, oh, if I do this, some later they'll do a terrorist attack. I don't know what that means. You have to don what's in front of you. He's in a sakanah and he's not in a sakanah, and I don't hear it. What about this even, the cheshbon of the Maram, that they're going to go ahead, you go and make these trades and they'll... That's what we're talking. You have 45 minutes to a half an hour to... I figured, okay. Tosafos, when the person's going to be in either pikuach or tremendous danger, or in tremendous danger, Tosafos. So how do we pasken like that Tosafos? Tosafos says that you're podeh, yoiser m'kdei dמיהם. Tosafos says klal, and the Maharshal paskens like this Tosafos. The Piskei Teshuva doesn't like it. The Piskei Teshuva does not. We just see that Piskei Teshuva, in the bottom, where? Bottom where? Okay, so please look at the Piskei Teshuva. All the Piskei Teshuvos reasons the mekoros, please, please. Don't do that. Somebody says, Reb Chaim says, 'v'afilu isha sheyesh shash d'oraisa.' Yeah. So he says, and... well, then I guess you can clarify whether arayos is din of pikuach. That's right. Then right after that he says, 'ayin Ramban, d'afilu makom taluy.' On the bottom he brings that Ramban, but he's not being cholek on the Rambaz because of that. Please, nobody's cholek on the Rambaz. Rambaz halachah l'maaseh. And I can just tell you, you have no right to come and tell me paskening like Ramban when you have Rambaz. Sorry. You can't come and say, 'Oh, Ramban in Chumash.' It's a Ramban in Chumash, I think, right? Or... it's Gittin. Okay, you have a Ramban in Gittin. Either Rambaz. Rambaz is a posek, and he paskens that it's a mitzvah d'Oraisa. Huh? Ramban against the Rambaz? He's an acher, what do you mean? Yeah, so the Ramban is a rishon. What do you think? ... What's that still? You have to... what are you machria? What's that still? What do you mean, Rambaz? Rav is the Rambaz. He saw the Rambaz. He saw the Ramban, he paskened. What's that? It's only if the Rambaz... I mean, did he see that? Maybe he didn't get to see. What does the Rambaz say? That if it's a sakanah, you... What does the Rambaz say? If it's a sakanah, we pasken it's mutar. Again, finished, it's mutar, finished. You know, you don't have it. It's mitzvah, even if it means that he's in yisurim. So when he says afilu isha, it's because the older arayos doesn't have דין. Obviously he—or, or Reb Chaim is dancing all over here. That's what I want to write. Or Reb Chaim holds not like the Ridvaz. No, or Reb Chaim is dancing all over. Because that's why, and that din, he says, I ain't Ramban, because he's putting the two together. Reb Chaim is dancing all over. He's putting the two together. That's what's bothering. No, I think that Reb Chaim in that line is saying not like the Ridvaz, because on this din, afilu isha sheyesh chashash d'oraisa, he's like, I ain't Ramban, d'afilu b'makom teluyin. But he seems to put the two together, unless you say 'ayin' that he goes even to the stage weiter. Okay, that's pilpul already in the tziyunim of the Reb Chaim sefer. Okay. Okay, so I'm trying. Let's go next. Next, next sugya. Okay, there's— okay, I just have to throw this out. There's a meirdike Reb Nosson. ... He brings a teshuvas haGeonim, here, that the teshuvas haGeonim bring down that there was a— here. ...

He's just clearly not. He says, V'afilu b'nechasav shel shaveh atzmei, he can't be. It means he's going like the second teretz. I have to see where he brings down the Bach. No, no, no, no, here. That's his b'feirush. He brings down from the Teshuvas HaGeonim here: עשרה מילי דחסידותא הוה נוהג עצמו המאירי רב. Rav had ten middos of chassidus. אבל תלמידיו היו יכולים לנהוג בכל עשר קדושות. וכל אחד ואחד מתלמידיו קיבל על עצמו לנהוג במידה אחת מעשר מידות, so they broke it up. You know this... That was a Gemara. No, wait a second. שלא להסתכל לצדד. אפילו פניו. Rabbi Yosi, ראשי תלמידיו רצו לנהוג אחריו, במידה זו, not to look l'tzadim. אבל ראש שאין יכולתם לעמוד בזה, הלכו בסימוס עיניהם. What's Gemara? Tell me. Yeah, I think so. What is? Why does he need Teshuvas HaGeonim, Shaar Teshuvah, kuf ayin ches? No, maybe the Gemara is not maybe not as descriptive as all these things. That he brings all of them. No, I'm saying the simei einayim is not the Teshuvas HaGeonim. It's a Gemara. You remember where the Gemara? You have it? Okay. So simei einayim, I think it's Teshuvas HaGeonim here, because they used to look l'tzadim. So what happened was the simei einayim. Ay, you're not allowed to hurt yourself. You're not being mechayev l'chabed yourself, and suma is chashuv. Kemeis, you're patur yourself from mitzvos. So he brings a pshat here: שאותו כן אחד שנפטר רב, ורצו להמשיך חשבונו עליהם, לכן עשו כן להמשיך חשבונם. What's the teretz? Because when the rebbe is niftar... What's the... Go, go, go. What's the Gemara saying? Go, tell. What's his first set, second teretz? He was not to look to his sides, even in front, and he tried doing it and he couldn't, so he blinded himself. He tried not looking. They tried to be ... that they did not to look l'tzadim, you know? They couldn't do it, so he went and blinded himself. ... What's the second teretz? The second teretz is because the yetzer hara for the aveirah means you mamish ... it destroys you. If you look where you're not supposed to look, mamish, ... So ... Because anybody should do it, but they overcome on themselves. They overcome themselves to do it. Not everybody could do it. ... because the whole ruchniyus. ... A person allowed to make himself patur from all mitzvos? Make himself patur ... make a mensch גיין שלעפן ... ... lock myself in a room? ... What? ... Yes, what's the teretz? ... Okay. ... I have to say, what's Japanese? ... This is ... Reb Chatzkel's ... says that if a person is not nis'orer from an earthquake, ... If he had emunah, he would zocheh being nis'orer. So he says, I don't like this, because even if he didn't have emunah, he should be nis'orer. Where's your feet? You're not afraid? The mama mensch is afraid. It can happen anywhere at any time. I had a guy that used to come to my father's house. It can happen anywhere. Who? That's what he's saying. It can, but it could. They had earthquakes in New Jersey. In Missouri, it was the most ever in the United States, 8.2. And that's the kind of a atomic bomb can't come any day from anywhere. You know, there's a certain cut of people that are from the meisim. You remember this well. The zeidelech like divrei. See, they're laughing because they heard it from me. As I used to say over that the Chofetz Chaim came back from a levaya, he would say, Chasanta zach. There's a group of people that come back, and it doesn't affect them. Why? Because they think shtarbiz is a club, and they don't have membership. They never paid the membership. ... never paid membership. Zogt der Chatzkel Gevaldig, and you want to know something? ... says, Kelem is Kelem is Kelem is Kelem. He says, You know why you're not nis'orer? Because deep down you're happy that it happened. He says, A mensch has a matzav that he enjoys hearing bad. You want to know something? The whole news is ... down the ... you know that? Because people want to hear bad things. People enjoy hearing catastrophe.

You know something? You don't know what you're talking about if you're not ... on this. You don't even know what you're talking about. People like to hear about a person won the lottery, just like... No. No. People like to hear, Oh, that guy failed. They're Jewish. Bad people. You want to know something? He even speaks it out. People who learn Mussar know that it's true. Now I want you to know something, okay? Reb Chaim Epstein, by the mashgiach Luvavitch, of Nosson, spoke about what Kelam is. I'll never forget that hasped. You ever heard a tape of it? Meiradik. He said, You want to know what Kelam is? The Mikhtav MeEliyahu writes a ma'aseh of what Kelam is. There was a fire in the Bais Medrash in Kelam. Everybody was running. They stopped the Kelamian gadol. The gadol wasn't chashuv yet, so you would expect him to say, I'm happy. Like this I have off two, three weeks now from vacation. I won't have to come to yeshiva. Reb Chaim said it over. It's a Mikhtav MeEliyahu. Huh? It's a meirdige maaseh. You hear? You know what? You know what? ... but it takes somebody who's so aware... Here. Here. ... Let's go. ... He enjoys catastrophe. Therefore you're not margish b'tzaaras ha... ... Yeah, Kelam. Do you want to know something? I wish I could have heard that shmooze. I wish I was there to hear it, because I... You want to... They have tapes, no? I don't know, but could you get me this tape? You know what this is? This is mussar ha'emes. This is truth. This is the mussar ha'emes l'maaseh. He has it. Reb Chatzkel's shmooze on tape? Chatzkel, sure. Of course, of Aaron. Obviously. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you what we're gonna do. We have to daven Maariv. Obviously we have to daven Maariv. We got most of, more or less, you know, we covered a lot tonight. ... What do you do with this? He says this is a ... thing. He says that if a person is choider al halev, and he works on himself to understand that you have to be medini. You know what medini is? It's interesting. Daf zayin, a mensh among... to care about other, even goyim. Here, come here, come here, read this part. Come here, come here. It's a long shmooze, and I don't know if I'm taking out the right parts of it. Here, here. Here. He says, you know, when they caught Eichmann... when they caught Eichmann, everybody made a big thing about it. He says, why do we talk about Eichmann? Because it's a guy who mit dem gechapt. Teredik? He says, Teredik? Who cares? Who cares? ... He says the six million aren't gonna come back because of it. You don't understand, every line in this shmooze, rabosai, is hashkafah berurah from the Torah. So what do you have to think? That the mishpat, the resha'im. That's all you're supposed to think. That's all. But you shouldn't feel like... He even says a line which I wish I heard the tape of it. You should even feel bad that ... has to be put to death even though he's a rasha. Once he says this, come in. Here. Here. He brings Mitzrayim. That's his raya. The whole shmooze is Mitzrayim. That's why I'm bringing it. I took revenge. You know what you hear? The guy always says, when we're satisfied with the verdict, justice was done. Yeah, yeah, we got him, we got him. You know, it's an akoma cheshbon. The ein l'smoa b'tzaaras harodef. I don't know if this is word for word, but if I heard this, I would go out of my mind. Eichman. He's talking about Eichman. Ein l'smoa b'tzaaras harodef, v'nishtakech mitanu kol Yisraelim. It's very hard zachin. Rabboisai, chatzkel, in Ponevezh at this gezogt. He brings a raya from Haman. He brings a raya, that's his raya. You know what he says? Okay, you went down, I'm sorry. What's Haman? It's fine, it's fine. I feel that kavod. What's Haman? What's the raya from Haman? When Shmuel went, he said...

It says, Vayisha'el lifnei Hashem. Vos is the lifnei Hashem? Talmud chacham, what's the lifnei Hashem? He went and he said, It's hot nisht mit mir. It's not a personal thing. It's lifnei Hashem. Zei zogt, the... the begadim. That's his raya from the begadim also. Lifnei... now this I don't know, because before Purim we have to talk. The whole yesod of Zachor is l'orer ha'evel, the sinah. I don't know how it works here. He started up with ruchniyus. He started with ruchniyus. The raya is, he comes and he says—what does he say? Kasher shiklim min ha'oshim, chavecha kein tishakek min ha'oshim mimecha. What is that? That's a personal zach. You're a rasha, you're a rotzeach. It has nothing even to do with zachor from Mitzrayim. ... It's rotzeach. That's what the shtickel says. Okay, we'll talk about it. Yevaldi, b'chas, every word, every word, rabosai. Give us some chizuk. We should remember it forever. Let's go. ... Not everybody disagrees with the Rebbe. Oh. Everybody agrees to you. I haven't argued with him about it for a long time. That's why I gave the shiur. Adonoi, Adonoi, Adonoi.