Hilchos Shabbos: Bathing in Warm Water and the Question of a Heated Mikveh

Transcript

Asa lilchaitz kol gufoi. You're not allowed to be roicheitz kol gufoi. Afilu kol eiver v'eiver levad, even every eiver separate. Afilu b'mayim shehuchmu erev Shabbos, even water that was cooked erev Shabbos, hot water. Bein im heim b'kli, bein im heim b'karka, which means if it's a bore of hot water. Afilu lishpoch mayim al gufoi, a shower. You're not going into the water, but you're throwing on yourself a shower. U'lishtatef, which means to wash, give yourself a rinse, asur. Aval mutar lirchotz bahem panav, yadav v'raglav. So let's see the Mishnah Berurah. Asa lilchaitz, gezeirah shema yavo al yedei zeh lahachin b'Shabbos, because you might come to cook it on Shabbos. Now the emes is, the real reason why they made this takanah was for the Bavloyim, the people who, the Bavlonim, the people who had the bathhouses. They would heat up the waters on Shabbos. So I have a shaylah, just like by shchikas samemanim, there's a chashash of Torah that it's not negea b'zman hazeh because we don't make the samemanim today. We don't go to the kitchen and make our samemanim. Cheshbonim, right? We brought that from Acharonim. What would they say in our case, the rechitzah? The Bavlonim are not here today, vu Bavlonim, veBavlonim, unless you say we put on the hot water. It's not heichen, it's not being meichan. What? No, I'm saying the taam of the takanah doesn't apply today, kemat. I don't know, just like we're meikel by shehiyasam imanim. The taam of the takanah apply today so much? You're gonna go heat up water? I don't know, because you could heat up water on Shabbos. We don't make medicine; we do make hot water. That's what I'm saying. Could be we do make hot water. I mean, we do sometimes make medicine, I mean, in a natural form, but not medicine-medicine. Some of the Bavlonim also. Who's gonna heat up a bathhouse? We heat up bathhouses today. It's the same issur. Same issur. When we make medicine, we don't do it by... Maybe there's other problems. Maybe there's... You're saying this is still shayach, still shayach. So that's what I'm saying. Look at the lashon of the Mishnah Berurah. The Mishnah Berurah never spoke Bavlonim. What does he say? Gezeirah shema yavoi al dei zeh lehacham b'Shabbos. Notice he skips the whole story behind it. That's why I'm just being medayek in the Mishnah Berurah. You don't have to go to the story. The story is irrelevant. Hagam the Gemara brings it down because of the Bavlonim, but stam any guy could go be meicham water on Shabbos. It's just pashut the Mishnah Berurah doesn't go into the whole gezeirah. I'm saying the Mishnah... Then the gezeirah was because of that, the Bavlonim, but it was—the Gemara talks about whether it should apply to chamei Tiberia, but there was a regular person. It wasn't the bathhouse. I'm saying even in the time of the Gemara, they already were applying it to the possibility. I don't know. Why should you be afraid? The problem is that they would make it hot on Shabbos because of parnassah. It's a money issue. It's not a stam gezeirah that you're gonna... Let's take out the mekar. Yeah, let's go out to the mekar. Shabbos lamed tes. It's different. I understood the Gemara, a guy, if he's a baal parnassah, you know, unterfunfing a little bit, you know. Every gezeirah, every time a guy—let's be gozer on everything. You might come to do on Shabbos. What do you mean? Don't eat on Shabbos. You might come to cook it. What kind of gzeira? ... Learn. Maaseh ... Mai rechitzah? ... ... What's the tam of the gezeira? Yeah, what's the tam gezeira? What's the tam gezeira? Yeah. Right, so let's go. What's the tam gezeira? Okay, go ahead. Someone read the tam gezeira. Go ahead, you read it, you read it, go ahead. Yeah, the Aruch HaShulchan. What's the tam gezeira? Yeah, nu.

Okay, read me the Bavlonim. He talks about the Bavlonim. Now, isn't that the Gemara? Amar Reb Shimon, it's the Bavlonim. Oh, havlonim. The gezeira was for the havlonim. Ich, listen to me. It's a poshute Gemara. It was the havlonim who started to cheat the corners. Instead of being mechamem Erev Shabbos, flekt men dos tanur Shabbos. Meileh made a gezeira. What do you mean? You're not stam gozer that you don't use hot water from Erev Shabbos because you might warm up anything. Don't do anything on Erev Shabbos. Don't use anything. You might be mechalel Shabbos. Don't use electricity. Maybe you'll turn it on from on Shabbos instead of Erev Shabbos. You know, it's a good idea, machnas gezeira. Don't use electricity. People are going to start putting on lights on Shabbos. That's a gezeira. The gezeira was a particular maaseh. So I would say, efshar hain tatn mishtiganze maaseh. So Mishnah Berurah doesn't talk about a gezeira, shema yavo... b'Shabbos gendik. It's pashtut haintech. What? What? What do you mean, giluy is also like that? It's like you're saying that the taam doesn't apply and the takanah applies. I'm not discussing that. No, the reason why they made a result, the havlonim, but l'maaseh they made it that... So that's what I'm telling you. Ich zog, ich zog, pshat. ... Mishnah Berurah. ... dafren brisker reid. No, no, no, this is pshat, no? I'm trying to explain that the Mishnah Berurah... I can hear, you can say that the taam of the takanah is not here, efshar, and the gezeira... The Torah says it's not as much not nigea, chveis. Or you just say that it wasn't the Bavlonim; it was the hucham b'Shabbos. Even then it was even not the Bavlonim. And the start was—why are you saying? That's going on the person. But it's all fakeera. It's the fakeera of the Bavlonim. It's the person doing it. No, it's talking about—the Gemara is talking about the person doing the rechitza, that they would say that we did in Chamei Teverya, and they would really do it in Chamei Ar. It doesn't say that. But the gezeirah was because they were making Chamei Ar. What's Chamei Ar today? What do you want? They're cooking, they're baking. There was a whole story, no? Okay, it could be. You want to say the chiddush is not Bavlonim? Okay, zog pshat. But that's what we're saying here. The takanah wasn't the story in the Gemara. The takanah was chashash hucham b'Shabbos, which is a chiddush. It's a mechadeshdike chiddush, because every time, bei choshesh. Well, the truth, by muktzah we have that. Muktzah, they started being motzi, and therefore they asered all the keilim. So vaiter, it's the story. B'chananim v'chachlal, it has to do with the story. That wasn't particular people; that was everybody. Everybody. And here it's mashma d'Avlonim. I don't know, but daf uplamd, the sugya. That's all I'm trying to say. Okay. Now, what about a mitzta'er? Zogt the Biur Halacha: Hamitzta'er, af al pi she'eino choleh kol haguf, yesh lomar d'mutar lirchotz. It's mutar lirchotz. What's the pshat? Mistama vibaltz not d'rabbanan. It's only a d'rabbanan. So b'makom tzaar lo gazru. You hear? Now why am I saying this? You have to know what's called tzaar. You know, what one person's tzaar is, another person's ... machmir, you know what I mean? Bnei Brak, they're not so mitzta'er. They don't take a shower for eight days. During the nine days, they are able to be soivel. In America, ... What? A tzaddik. But if some people, they don't take a shower twice a day, they're mitzta'er. That's what I'm saying. But you hear my shayla, what the hagdarah of mitzta'er. You see the Biur Halacha, ... mitzta'er, af al pi she'eini choleh kol haguf. At the end, let me discuss that with you. You see, let me tell you, let me tell you, I talk here what a posek has to talk. You want to know l'maaseh, of course you shouldn't be taking showers on Shabbos, but you have to know the halacha. The cases come up, the stories, the situation. Let me listen: when, what, how. Okay. So, al kol panim, a mitzta'er, af al pi she'eini choleh kol haguf. So mitzta'er, it's not a choleh kol haguf. So from the mashma'os of the mitzta'er, it's not stam he's uncomfortable. It's a psicha dika d'mitzta'er, right? And the hagdarah l'cho'orah is that there was no takanah of azoyfen. Okay, so let's see. Now.

Another diyuk. Even the mitzta'er that the Mishnah Berurah is matir, it's only b'maim shechumer Shabbos. Lo yatzui you have maim shechumer b'Shabbos for whatever cheshbon it is. Let's say b'shogeg. Let's say a guy by mistake put on the hot water. Just because you're mitzta'er, maybe you don't have the heter. I'm just saying, the reading, the reading of the Mishnah Berurah is b'maim shechumer Shabbos. So even if you're going to shtel tzu a mitzta'er, you got to make sure it's maim shechumer Shabbos. It's not maim shechumer b'Shabbos, okay? So that's this biur halachah. A, maim shechumer. We'll talk. That's in a few minutes we'll get there. Just, just let's see the reading: maim shechumer. Of them, zogt the Mishnah Berurah, mitzta'er. I don't know what a mitzta'er is. Al kol panim, it's something, it's eino choleh. It's like a lashon of a choleh kol haguf. Yesh lehקל להקל. Okay. Zogt the Mishnah Berurah, kol gufo. No, he says it clearly. He's going on b'maim shechumer Shabbos, right? L'choirah, l'choirah he's going on those words. So even if you're saying mitzta'er is mutar, l'choirah it's only the Mishnah Berurah's matir. Huh? Look it up. Go ahead. I'm just reading the Mishnah Berurah in the meantime. Can't ... Now, kol gufo, yeah, v'hu ha'din rov gufo. Yeah, even if it's rov gufo. D'ruba k'kulo. Yeah, that's chasanta lahalachah, ruba k'kulo. And in the takanah, s'da din for ruba k'kulo. Where does this come from? Beis, Magen Avraham. Levad u'kol shekein. Mitzta'er maybe can get away with it by even b'maim shechumer Shabbos, if he doesn't do rov haguf. If it's not choleh kol haguf. No, because the truth is you're not even do— What I'm saying, afilu kol eiver v'levad, as long as it's not rov haguf, maybe. Ein hachanami, ein hachanami, ein hachanami. Afilu kol eiver v'levad means when you eventually do rov. You do the whole thing, but if you do eiver, that's less than rov haguf. Yeah, you know what we'll discuss? Obviously it's not for tonight yet. I see we're not going to get there tonight. I said this is a psak over here in Westgate to somebody. The guy went crazy, because I found Rabbi Cohen says the same thing. Sometimes if you wear a clothing and you're going in, so that's not called kol haguf. Even if it's technically rov haguf? That's right. Think about it. If, let's say, I go and I wash most of my guf, yeah? Let's say I wash most of my guf. So I go eiver eiver, but I left out one part. But if l'chatchila I go in in an oifen which is normal to wash, I went into the whole water. You dove in? Huh? No, I go into the shower with an undershirt. I go into the shower with a certain amount of clothing. That's not any different than not doing kol haguf. Maybe to make a heker that this is not your normal thing. Maybe. You hear? It's good, huh? We'll talk about it. We'll talk about this as a heter. I'll tell you where I used it, and we'll tell you when it's nogea. But keep this in mind. Okay. Levad, v'kol shekein im rochetz k'derech rechitzah kol haguf b'yachad. So what do you see from over here? That there's a kol shekein when you do it k'derech rechitzah. So what's eiver eiver? Eiver eiver is a cheshbon that it's not k'derech rechitzah. So you see that there's a chiluk between gedera chitzah and not gedera chitzah, but af al pi kein, it's still asur. Why? As long as it gets to rov. Eiver eiver is asur as long as it's rubo k'kulo. Okay. Afilu lishpoch, afilu mimayim shehuchmu me'erev Shabbos, v'afilu hein b'karka. Okay, so you're not allowed to do it. V'hein b'chamin shehuchmu me'erev Shabbos, afilu yadav levad. If something was cooked on Shabbos, it would be asur even your hands alone. Oishera eivarav, v'ish sheloi vashes levanah b'Shabbos, v'yadav mutaros lichsos mekoman b'chamin shehuchmu me'erev Shabbos, v'yonter rak shetizaher lichsos b'yadayim v'loi b'beged because of sechitah. Because if she washes with a cloth, there will be a problem of sechitah. Yesh noshin noheges she'ein lovshes levanah b'Shabbos v'yontif. Some people don't start because of this; they don't want to wash with the water. Uv'makom she'ein minhag yadua, yesh l'hatir. There's no minhag yadua, you could be matir. Okay. Chamei ha'or. Okay, zogt der Rama, go ahead, nu Rama. Yeah, nu. Chamei ha'or. Nu, vergeit leinen.

Meaning, ... Rav Shabsai HaGaon, ... כל גופו. והני מילי בחמי אור, אבל בחמי תבריא, מותר לרחוץ אפילו כל גופו יחד, וצריך להיזהר בצוננין. והא דשרי בחמי תבריא דווקא בקרקע, אבל בכלי, once it goes into a tub or something, לא, דאסי לחלופי. Yeah, yeah, go ahead, בחמי האור. You'll come to, okay. זאָגט די משנה ברורה, לפיכך, מקום שנהגו להחם המקווה, צריך להיזהר שלא יהיה רק פושר. So this is one of the most controversial Mishnah Beruras. So let's say you have a mikveh, so צריך להיזהר שלא יהיה רק פושר; it should only be lukewarm water, דלא יכין, אתי לטבול בו. ... What's this ...? ... is a famous ... that the minhag is to go to the mikveh even in hot, and it's an ענין of a mitzvah, and therefore it's mutar. That's the ... Okay, so let's discuss this poishrim. We're not going to discuss noshim yet. So far, so far it just says, לפיכך במקום שנהגו להחם המקווה. ... We don't know yet. Pashut, this is going on men, not going on women. ... is going on men, that the men want to go to the mikveh Shabbos morning. Minhag is to let them go in hot water because it's mitzvah. We'll discuss this. Just give me a few minutes; you'll see the background. I'll give you the whole background of this Mishnah Berurah. So למעשה, מקווה צריך להיזהר שלא יהיה רק פושר, ולא יכנס לטבול בו. Okay. So, chayritz mashma, poishim is mutar. Mishburah is matir poishim. That's what—poishim is what? No, they didn't go to the mikvah on Shabbos. We'll soon see. We'll talk about arichas. Yeah, yeah, you know that, right? Okay, so we'll talk. You ready? You ready to get into the sugya a little bit? So, poishim, rabosai, is mashma that it's mutar. Is that really true, that poishim is mutar? Let's take a look at the Shulchan Aruch, סעיף ד'. Okay, go ahead, Reb Leizer, take it away. Lo yishtatef adam... which means he's giving himself a rinse, a rinse. Read the words again. Bifnei—key words—mayim. So here it's not even using the poishim water. You're making from cold water poishim. You're making from cold water poishim. What's the halacha when you make cold water poishim? ... So how could the Mishnah Berurah come and tell me that the mikvah, when it's poishim, is mutar? For us, that—when poishim is anyway asur. What's he talking about? Okay? So let's see the Mishnah Berurah, סעיף קטן יז. V'nimtza k'reichitz kol gufo... Go ahead, move. Reb Shapsi, because סעיף קטן יז. Zehu milashon... ... It's not out to the heating of the water itself. Right? ... It's not a problem. Okay, rak... Okay. It's just having water on you and going next to a fire. Oh, so you see what the Mishnah Berurah does? Instead of saying it's only like a rechitza, it's not like a rechitza; it is rechitza, but it's like rechitza from mayim shechukim me'erev Shabbos, okay? Right, which is the yesh omrims. Hey, yesh omrim, right? Hey, yesh omrim shetzarich להיזהר שלא להניח ידיו, right? And that's even what? Even miktzas gufo. Even miktzas gufo. So what does that yesh omrim hold? The din is shaveh k'rechitza b'chamin shechumu b'Shabbos. You see? The first shita holds it's k'mechamin shehuchmu me'erev Shabbos, so yad panav v'raglav mutar. The second shita is that it's k'chamin shehuchmu b'Shabbos, and therefore it's b'chalal asur, even yadav, okay? Ah, stam chamin shehuchmu b'Shabbos, huchmu b'mayim b'issur. So how b'chalal do you have it? So it's anyway huchmu b'issur. V'hacha b'inyan, lo hayah al hamayim shem chimum rak shem hefshed ba'alma, ein lechalek bazeh. Yeah, go ahead. Dafilu... okay, so the truth is it's not regular chamin shehuchmu, but it's poshut min ha'efetz asur, okay? So kumt ois halacha l'maaseh.

Is there a heter poishrim kol gufoi? No. No. What's the Mishnah talking? Vos redt the Mishnah Berurah? Mishnah Berurah says that if you go into the mikvah, make sure that it's poishrim. Poishrim is not mutar. What are you talking about? Poishrim is only mutar maybe, maybe by, by, by, what should we call it, maybe other Rabbanan. Why? Anywhere, Stamar has a heter, mitzvah also. Mitzvah. All right, so we're going to get to this in a few minutes. Let's just get to it in a few minutes, okay? Halacha l'maaseh. Would you be— was there— what? Okay. Read the Mishnah, read Shartzi l'ches, read Shartzi l'ches. Kein kasav, yeah, haMagen Avraham, u'mashma d'berchitzah gemurah af l'daas haRam asur, afilu panav, yadav v'raglav levad, af shelo hoyah rak hefsher mayim b'Shabbos, af she'al hefsher ein issur. U'mipashtes lashon haגר״א mashma d'taam haRamam, mishum d'lo hoyah al hefsher shem issur. L'kach svira lehu d'hu kechamin shehuchmu b'erev Shabbos, d'gam sham lo hoyah al atzmam chim issur, v'lo gazru rak al kol gufoi. U'lefi zeh, b'mayim shehufshru b'Shabbos, hainu shelo hoyah yatzei ledes, ein issur l'daas haRamam rak rechitzas. Kol gufoi. So what's the story? Unless you come and say that the poshim of Erev Shabbos is two steps. Maybe poshim on Shabbos is aser, kol gufoi. Poshim on Erev Shabbos maybe would be mutar, taka kol gufoi. Maybe that's the pshat in the Rambam. What's the pshat in this shtickel alei Mishnah Berurah, huh? You like my shaila, huh? Does the Mishnah Berurah mean that poshim is mutar because it's from Erev Shabbos? So poshim on Shabbos would be aser, kol gufoi. Poshim on Erev Shabbos, meaning, let's say you made poshim, yeah, so it would be k'huchmu me'Erev Shabbos. But what happens if it was poshim me'Erev Shabbos? Okay, everybody, read. You know, I'm gonna sit back for two minutes. I'll let you guys do the Mishnah Berurah. Sorry, go ahead. I'm waiting. So again, learn the Mishnah Berurah, se'if katan zayin. What's the halacha by mikveh? Halacha l'maaseh: Rabbi, can I go to the mikveh on Shabbos? Answer: If it's poshim, what's the lashon of Mishnah Berurah again? Here: tzarich lizaher shelo yeh rak poshim. Good. Whatever, but you have to make sure poshim. Yes or no? Yes. Let's see in the Mishnah Berurah: is poshim mutar on Shabbos? Are you allowed to go into kol gufoi when it's poshim? No. Rambam says clearly no. No, right? Kol gufoi. Let everybody read the two Mishnah Berurahs. You know, Reb Shapsi, let the oilam again. Tell everybody the two Mishnah Berurahs. Here, yud zayin, and then the Biur, and then the Shaar HaTziyun ches. I'm waiting. I'm waiting a little bit. Take it in, take in the whole sugya. Go ahead. The gam sham lo hoyah al etzem hachimum issur. Good. So therefore, just like when the etzem hachimum was not aser, so too the poishrim, which al etzem hachimum there was no issur, so it's mutar unless it's kal gufa. Kal gufa vad aser. Good. So unless you say maybe in this Rambam, poishrim from erev Shabbos is better. It's poishrim and it's erev Shabbos. Maybe that's what the Mishnah Berurah means. On a poishrim on erev Shabbos is mutar. Huh? Thank you for... he's saying, it's less because it wasn't b'issur. You didn't do anything wrong. Huh? So it's like mechamin from erev Shabbos, but what happens if it's poishrim erev Shabbos? Meaning, meaning what? What are you saying? Say it again. No, it should be saying poishrim is not mashma that it's from erev Shabbos. When was it heated? I want to know when it was heated. When did it become poishrim?

No, ... Shabbos. ... is like chamin me'erev Shabbos, that's what it says. ... No, no. Maybe the ... maybe ... what do you say, Yoel, what do you say? ... from Erev Shabbos maybe is better than ... on Shabbos, and therefore it's going to be mutar even ... What you call it? ... Right, that's what I'm saying. So it could be ... of Erev Shabbos is fine completely. Maybe that's Shat in the Mishnah Berurah. I dilma, I dilma he means mitzvah. He should have said. So this is the sugya. We're starting the sugya. Obviously we have to do it tomorrow. Maybe the Mishnah Berurah's zayin is that the ... Erev Shabbos. You want to know what the real terutzim of the Acharonim say? Oz nidberu. Rav Binyamin Zilber, nesif, wants to see there's two dinim in ... There's ... closer to hot, and there's ... closer to not cold. Zayin is ... closer to not cold, and the ... ... Okay, this is what. Or you learn that that's what he's telling to mitzvah, or he's telling to mitzvah. You want to show me this? Letter from ... Charlie Crist, great, Florida. Okay, okay, good. I'll look at it. He's ... You want to ... I called up my relatives in Florida. ... Otherwise it's not going to work. Okay, so let's do it. ... You have another copy? Okay, we'll do it. When is it? It's tomorrow, no? Tuesday. Go to Florida and hand it out. No one in Florida. I called from Florida to Miami right now. I called because it's not a sign, a single show, which is crazy, because he'll listen to people from Florida before he listens to somebody. He writes it. Your father's in Florida, no? Yeah, I called him today. I said, I said, what are they saying about Brosman? He's like, there's no signs. I know a lot of ... He's like, it doesn't have a sign, it's a single show. There's no ... very strong. I called from ... I asked ... from people from Florida, more than a hundred. Why? Because they don't care about ... You have one zip code in the whole New Jersey that you have 8,000 people that called up. Well, I called from my phone also. They have number 21,000. Well, no, they look at the map. There's one dot in the whole America, 8,000 people called up. I'm telling you, ten people from Florida is more than a hundred. Why? They don't like that. They said on the ... They want ... the government for ... They don't want it. It's not right. It's not. It's not only up to ... but the ... of the whole thing is up to the government. The ... they have a committee. No, it's ... Also, I got called ... Hold on, no, he's fine. ... That's why I got your ... Oh, oh.

I adore you. enிலை. ChatGPT.

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

The people that throw the rocks ... innocent bystanders. ... Shabbos. ... Shaila is ... first ... ... the first lady ... ... Now that you mentioned the Seder, I might have to, otherwise no. I'm with you. I, I, I... That's why I... Why did I push? I prove. Why do we have a mincha? And I tell you the real truth. I don't go... I don't understand. ... You put up signs, and you know, and Shabbos... you'll have double. You'll always have... You'll have those that want early because they want to start the day early. There's always people. There's people here. You know, ... has no lack of people. Not only if he's the mincha, we have to make it three, four minutes earlier on Shabbos. It's getting later Shabbos. We're not doing well. We're not doing well. We're rushing the mincha like not normal. ... before Shabbos. Yeah. We have to, we have to. We should do it like... like Wesky. Wesky waits three minutes. I see Wesky waits three minutes after. We're rushing every week to design. ... People aren't coming because they're afraid of... People are coming because...

Very few people. I'm here, I'm here. I'm the one that's here. I'm the one that's... There's no minyan. Is there a minyan? Not a minyan. How do people get out of the house? So let's make the mincha, like more pressed, for Erev Shabbos.