The Laws of Lying: Yaakov Avinu, Midvar Sheker Tirchak, and Changing One’s Words

Transcript

We imagine that a Yehudi, Jew, is honest, clean, and the world, the world, that's sheker, olam ha-sheker. But it's interesting, Yaakov Avinu, who was ish tam yoshev ohalim, and he was the semel haTorah, he was the emblem, the symbol of Torah. And still, he was pretty dishonest in many ways. In many ways, he was dishonest. For example, from the start of his career, so to speak, at techilas shel Yaakov Avinu, he stole the brachos from Esav. Then he goes to Lavan's house, and he does business, and he says, I was the most honest person. At the end, when Lavan runs after him, he tells him, What are you talking about? Achalani chorev, kech balaylah. I didn't waste a minute. Day and night I worked for you. Tell me, you know who made all the money? Who made all the money from the business of Lavan? Yaakov Avinu. Yaakov Avinu figured out a way how to manipulate the market, so to speak, and get all the business. How? He figured out that with the sheeps would live together, he would put a stick and he would put them, brudim, brown-spotted, dark-spotted, a whole system. He had a whole system going. And what happened? Lavan, at the end of the day, looks at his... The prophets, it's nothing. Who made all the prophets love him? Yaakov. I mean, does that sound to you as an ish tam yoshev ohalim? That sounds like a person who's honest. As a matter of fact, Yaakov himself prides himself. He himself says about his own self, what? That he is achiv b'ramaut, right? Esav achi, o fakert, love him, by love him also. He tells him, achi vani b'ramaut. Yeah, I'm his brother in trickery. Could you imagine a person who's supposed to be ... ohalim, ... אומר, לא, maybe that was a sheker. Maybe it's not true. He's not achi b'ramaut, maybe. V'zeh ha-sheker. Which one are you supposed to believe when he's telling you that he's a liar, that itself is a lie? Which lie tell you that I'm a liar? So let's clarify. Am I a liar? So then you can't believe what I say. So, man efshach, man efshach, I'm lying, right? I have a miggo. You know what a miggo is? A miggo is if I have this ta'ina and that ta'ina. If I'm telling the truth, then I'm saying I'm a liar. And if I'm lying, then I'm also lying. So which one is it? Yaakov the liar or Yaakov the liar? Either way, he's a liar. So how do you explain ... haTorah? Titei emes l'Yaakov. I've even once told you over a gevaldige pshat from my grandfather, which I hold is emes la'amito. When they come to take Binyamin, right? So Yaakov can't make peace with it. Why? Binyamin, something's going to happen to him. What's the big deal? Pull any kid off the street, pay him a few dollars, and tell him, act like Binyamin. I mean, officially the person is pari mitzvah; you know, they don't know it's Yosef. So say it's Binyamin. No reason to get kashas. You have a problem, buddy, you make believe he's something else, and that's all. Actors. I'm sure there were plenty good actors in those days. For a few dollars, you get yourself an actor. Said my grandfather, zicher tzaddik livrachah, Titei emes l'Yaakov. Yaakov doesn't lie. Really? Really? He doesn't lie? I don't know, he made a career out of lying. As a matter of fact, like I just showed you, he's even proud of it. So who is Yaakov? Is Yaakov the Titei emes l'Yaakov, or is Yaakov ish achiv ani b'ramayos? Who's the real Yaakov? Will the real Yaakov stand up?

So the mefarshim explain that the problem of sheker is only when it's for the wrong purposes. When it's for the right purpose, then it's not sheker. If it's meant, l'shem shamayim, if it's meant l'hotzi davar tov, to take out, to produce a good thing, then it's not a sheker. Yaakov Avinu took the brachot, was davar tov. It was to steal the brachot away from a rotzeach, a murderer, a murderer. Lavan also was obviously, obviously, again, you have to know what the Acharonim make, because he was trying to cheat him, so the right thing is to cheat him back. Im ikesh titapal, there's a halacha. If someone lies to you, you're supposed to cheat him back. You know, I once heard a gevaldige thing from my grandfather, zichrono livrachah, from the Alter of Slabodka. The Alter's claim, his claim to fame was that he understood the bachurim very well. He knew every guy inside out. As a matter of fact, they say over that when a guy gave a cough in the beis medrash, and the Alter's back was shmoneh esrei, after the Shemoneh Esrei he was able to turn around and say that was that bachur, that one. He knew them so well that he knew the cough and the sound of the cough. That's how well they knew him. He knew his bachurim like his children. A father hears from the cry. Which he understands which kid is crying. That's how close he was with the Bach. You hear? So they say over that someone came over to him and said, They're fooling you. Ah, they're fooling you. You think you know them? Ah, you don't get it. You don't get the whole picture. He says, I know they're fooling you till I fool them back double. They're fooling me till I fool them double. The point being that when someone fools you, the way around it is to fool them back double, and that's called emet. That's called an ikesh titapach. So Lavan, since he was achiv aniber amois, that's emet. Meaning, you're not supposed to be a fool. If a person is fooling you, you're supposed to look at them like a tamim. I told you over many times in the Chafetz Chaim that I heard from my grandfather also, Tamim tihyeh im Hashem Elokecha. Hashem Elokecha tihyeh tamim. Aval bnei adam, with people, you shouldn't be tamim, because then they'll railroad, they'll run you over with a train. You better be careful. Tamim tihyeh, you should be innocent with Hashem. Hashem you should be innocent. If you're stopping innocent with people, you go to 47, you're stopping innocent, you'll be out of business in a week. Meaning, if the other guy is emet with you, you better not fool him. But if the other guy is fooling you, you better call his bluff, as they say in English, an ikesh titapach. Okay, so we've established that sheker doesn't mean these words are not true, because it has to be that the outcome... To be bad. The outcome is good, then it's not sheker, and the raya is Yaakov Avinu. Yaakov Avinu is the raya. How do we know this? How do we know this? Maybe not. Maybe midvar sheker tirchak. And like the mefarshim say, tirchak. You know what the word tirchak means? Don't say al tidaber sheker. It says, midvar sheker tirchak. Say the Rishonim on the Chumash, on the pasuk tirchak. You got to run away from it far, far. It's not enough just to what? Just to not lie. You should, even the slightest thing which could bring to lying, you got to stay away even from a chashash, avak sheker, right? So how do we know? How do we know it means only when it's good? Maybe you're not allowed to lie at all. How do you know it means that? So I'll start by telling you over an interesting chiddush from the Yereim. Yereim, which was the rebbi of the Baalei HaTosafos, Rabbeinu Tam. His rebbi was the Yereim, Rabbeinu Eliezer miMetz. And he has a chiddush that midvar sheker tirchak is only for an edus in beis din, in edus, in beis din, in court. There's no issur me'ikar dvar sheker tirchak to lie.

So on one hand, it's a big kula, because it comes out that you're allowed to walk around lying, and therefore 90% of people are not over aveiros every second of the day. Like they say the famous joke: How do you know if a person's lying? He's moving his lips, you know he's lying. If he's talking, then you know he's lying. But I hold that in America, they came up with an invention that it's shayach to lie without talking, without moving your lips: a smile, a chamishah sheker. Look at the politicians. They don't even have to say anything, and you see the sheker. So it's all their body movement, their body language speaks and screams sheker. But the... but Yireim is on the mitzvah of midvar sheker tirchak. I don't have offhand the number; just I know the Yireim. Famous Yireim, midvar sheker tirchak is only beis din. It's only in beis din. So it comes out, beis din, midvar sheker tirchak is to hurt somebody. You see that it's not just you're not allowed to lie, because then it would be where? Everywhere, any time. So you see that it's in the consequence that it causes somebody damage or pain. And if not for that, there's no issur midvar sheker tirchak. So even the Rishonim who say that it's not only in beis din, obviously they understood it in this vein, but it's still a question: maybe not, maybe not. If you learn midvar sheker tirchak is not only in beis din, so how do those Rishonim, which is most Rishonim, most of the Rishonim that we pasken like, say it's everywhere? So how do you know it's only for ra? Maybe in pirkei you're not allowed to lie. So I want to show you an interesting Rabbeinu Yonah. Rabbeinu Yonah gives nine categories of lying. The Rishonim, even though they didn't deal with the outside world, knew the world, and they knew it well, and they knew what it means, lying and people who are lying. Look how Rabbeinu Yonah, in Shaarei Teshuva, Shaar Shelishi, from kuf ayin ches all the way to kuf pei vav. Yeah, how many pages of cases of lying. Now we're not going to read the whole Shaarei Teshuva. We're just going to take out one line from each case. Like this you'll know the cases, and we'll analyze, and we'll study the cases, and we'll see, yeah, no, yeah, no, when you're allowed, when you're not allowed. So let me tell you like this. Kat gar. This is the group of liars. Sure, it's a big group like that, the club of liars today. I don't know if there's anybody who's not a member. Inyan ha-kat ha-zu nechlekes l'tisha chalakim. There's nine categories. Chelek ha-echad, ish kazav, a liar, a man of falsities. Asher Torah azav, he left the Torah, v'yerev yashesh b'ma'nei piv, and he willingly goes around lying, a corrupt individual, corrupt. A corrupt person is one category of lying. He's called a bliyaal, a rasha, and so on and so on. Okay, so the first one is ish. Chazak, which means a man who is inherently false. His life, his talk, all of it is what—I don't want to say the English word. There's an English word to describe it, but it's not. Garbage would be nice. Now, hameshaker. Ein be'etzem hasheker nezek v'hefsed l'chaveiro. Sometimes you can lie. This is chelek sheini, the second perek. You can have a case where—yeah, no, let's say he brings even koved b'einav, you can do with your eyes, whatever. The man is false. That's his mahus, his being. Politician, yeah. Then—what is that, actually, the second chelek? Chelek hasheini. No, I was going back on the first perek. Chelek hasheini, hameshaker, v'ein be'etzem hasheker nezek v'hefsed l'chaveiro. He doesn't mean to hurt anybody. Ach yacholim bo la'asot sibah lanizak v'lara. For example, hamat'eh es chaveiro sheya'amin bo ki hu oyev v'rea nemon imo, right? Which means that he's not—

Inherently, meaning these words which will cause hurt to anybody, but he's fooling the other person, and from that hurt could come. You convince somebody you like him, and you don't really like him, so it's a very big problem, because right now there's nothing wrong with what you're saying. But who cares? It's irrelevant. One day it might be relevant. Why? Because he'll trust you, and then he'll have a big problem by trusting you. So that's your second category. Your third category: habo b'arma, v'divrei mirma, limnoa to'eles ba'olam, to cheat a person out of something good. For example, you tell him in business, yeah, don't do this thing because it's not good for you, and the truth is it is good for you. This is the third category of lying. The fourth category: hameshaker b'sipur hadvarim, for example, he makes up stories. Asher shama, u'machlik k'saso. He doesn't have to change all of it; he changes just a little bit of it. V'ein lo te'eles b'shikaro. He doesn't gain anything from it. What does he gain? And also, he doesn't have a hefsed; he doesn't lose anything. Aval koin mishpatim v'avosi sheker midaber tzedek sefasav. But this is what he enjoys. He enjoys to talk lies. This is what he enjoys to do. Dramatizing. Yeah, yeah. They say over from Reb Mendelovitch, saying about a newspaper lying. They say that everything in a newspaper is a lie. Even the date is a lie, because they printed it the day before. Even the date. Because when did they print? They printed the day before. Even the date. Such a tremendous lie, everything is a lie. Let me tell you how it works in the world. In the real world, you print at night and the papers come out early in the day, starts from the night. That's by us, not by the world. Okay. God, they say over that you didn't have to buy—my father told me this—that you didn't have to buy the European Jewish newspapers, because you could have read the same news in the Russian newspapers the day before. It was just, they would take everything what it says there and just rewrite it in Yiddish. Anyways, hachelik hachamishi, when he tells a person that he'll do good with him and he'll give him a present, right, and then he has no intention of giving it. So that's like a geneivas daas. It's like lying to him that you're fooling him. Chelek shishi, matir chaver l'hatet imo, tells him he'll do good, v'yishaket varo, v'yasim l'al milaso, he promises him and then he doesn't keep his word. First thing is he doesn't plan on giving, right? So meaning it's l'chatchila, when he said it, this was the—on the other one now it's planned on giving, he didn't do it. Okay, the shvi'is, mi shematis chaver lo meitiv, yasim l'tovah. Shmini, mishtabea b'ma'alos shenimtza, he lies about himself, walks around saying that he has tremendous qualities that he doesn't have. And the ninth one is, he comes and he tells stories. Eight is, I just said eight. What did I say? I missed seven? Mi shemates chaveiro leimor ki asa imo toivah. He lies to him, telling him he did do for him something, and it's not true. You know, you know what I did for you? I spoke, I... It's not true. The whole thing never happened. Never happened. Next, mi shemishtabea b'ma'alos shenimtza boi, walks around saying things about himself. You know, I finished school, I did this, I did that. You're laughing. I once had a guy here—here's the story—that every Shabbos he'd come over to me and discuss with me medical issues, medical issues. And he would tell me about his patients and his... It's unbelievable. No, and after the fact that he once told me, you know, I told him I have medical issues, he tells me, Oh, I have a doctor friend, and medical, this is the way you should deal with it. Kitzur, one week I come, he's not there. Two weeks, three... I don't see him anymore.

I went over to the rabbi in that shul. Tell me, where is so-and-so? He says, Ah, you didn't hear where so-and-so is. So-and-so is walking around saying he's a doctor. He wasn't. He walked around giving people medical advice, and he was going to hospitals and making believe he's on call. And they caught him. And they caught him. So he's no more. He's no more. What did he gain from it? Exactly the same thing right here. Mishtamshea b'maalos she'einam metzuyos. He walked around, I'm a doctor, not a doctor, yakin Chinese. A lot of talmidei chachamim do this. They walk around claiming that they know and they don't know. It's a very big problem. Who's that, nine? A lot of what? This was eight. Maybe, yeah, that's right. That's exactly. This is a type of sheker, to walk, I'm a Kabbalist and I'm not, 100%. What's the—what am I trying to fulfill this? There's a common denominator in all the stories Rabbeinu Yonah brings. Not one of them does Rabbeinu Yonah bring that he lies for a good reason. The nine categories Rabbeinu Yonah brings is either lying to hurt the other guy, or— Or somewhat, at some point, stam mechnaise, he lives in fantasy world. But to lie to help somebody, in one case, is Rabbeinu Yonah, shtarker issur. Now I want to ask you a simple question, let's get down to the yesod, the foundation. Is the issur the words sheker, these words are falsities, or is it the gavra, the person is not allowed to speak falsely? Is it an issur maaseh, or is it a gavra, that the person becomes a liar? So truth is, I showed you for Rabbeinu Yonah. Rabbeinu Yonah speaks, the first case is what? Ish kazav, the person's a liar. And the other cases are cases where what? That he speaks, he speaks lies. So we see that a person can be a liar without actually speaking. The nafka mina would be if you learn that sheker is lying, words of lies, so then if without words, then it's not sheker. But if it's the gavra portraying falsities, so then even if he doesn't say anything, it would be asur. This is my question. You'll soon see how it ties into understanding the yesod of the issur and the meilah what, and the meilah also, more, and the meilah to understand. Let me explain to you what I'm trying to get at. Is the problem the person? The person, he's being foolish, or is the problem that these words are words of sheker, which would mean, I'll tell you even more, is the problem of sheker between you and Hashem? Let's say I don't hurt the other guy. I'm not hurting him. Still, we find there's an issur sheker; you're not allowed to lie. So the problem is the words, or is the problem the person? I want to tell you, we find by nedarim, when a person makes a neder, Lo yachel dvaro, kechol hayotzei mipiv ya'aseh. He shouldn't make cheap, chulin, his words. Chulin words? What kind of kedusha? Where is there kedusha to words? Say the Rishonim, yes there is. Says the...

Ruach memalela. The ability to speak is a ruchnius. It's a spiritual thing. And the biggest proof is because the beheimos that walk on four, the beheimos that walk on two do speak. The beheimos that walk on four, they can't speak. The beheimos that walk on two, right, that live all over the neighborhood, they can't speak. They could speak. Well, actually, they can't speak either, but also different type of language, I don't know. Maybe you could understand, maybe you can't understand what they're saying. Makom panim, the ones that walk on four, they can't speak. So this is a special aliyah, special spirituality that man has that he could talk. Lo yachol dvarim. You're not allowed to come, and fashvech — Yiddish, it's called to fashvech — which means to cheapen, cheapen. Lo yachol dvarim. Words are holy. Sheker, so they're ruining the words. The words themselves are self-destructive, which means I'm trying to get at the mekor of the problem. If it's hurting somebody, I understand they're the problem of sheker. These words are a knife. You know, how does the lashon of the pasuk say? Cherev. The lashon is like a cherev, it's like a sword. Piot. Chaim v'maves b'yad halashon. Let me tell you, words could cause much damage to other people. So if you're meshaker and you cause him hezek, so the words cause hezek. But if I lie where I don't cause hezek, say if you come and say you're a doctor and you're not a doctor, that's causing hezek maybe to people. But if you come and say you're a big philosopher, what's the big deal? The truth is, even if you're a liar, you're telling the truth that you're a philosopher, because usually that's what they are, so it's not a big kasha. You're not contradicting yourself. Maybe that's what you mean: I'm a liar. In other words, the fancy way of saying it is saying, I'm a philosopher. I'm an intelligent. I'm a scientist. Al kol panim, the point being, if I'm not hurting the other guy, then what's wrong? And the answer could be is maybe there's kedusha to words. Maybe, I don't know, could be. Or it has to do with the person. Torah wants that you should be an ish emes. Ish kazav asher Torah azav, v'lo sichashku, v'lo sishakru, v'lo yisarmechu et shaker, al Taynu shamisu. Even though the truth is these are all cases here, v'nikra ish עָוֶל, v'nikra bliyaal, even though the cases, it brings us to hurt the other guy. Maybe the problem is when you're a liar. You're a liar, it's a problem with the gavra. Now let's go back to the original question. If let's say I lie for the good reason, so the words themselves, they're not the truth. But am I a liar? Is the person corrupt? Maybe not. Maybe it's תלוי in this, that since the halacha of sheker is not so much the words, are they true or not true, but it's the corruption of the person who says them. So his intentions are good, so then he's not corrupt. This is what I want to start with. This is the yesod. Does everybody understand what I just said? I'm going to repeat it b'kitzur because I brought in a lot of information, and it's very difficult to process it. So let me tell you over b'kitzur what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to understand how it could be that a person says every single word false, and it's not sheker, it's emes. How does such a thing happen? How could the Torah, which is a true Torah, tell me that a person could lie for ten minutes straight, twenty minutes? How long would it take Yaakov to steal the brachos? Ten, fifteen, twenty minutes? For twenty minutes you can walk around lying, bluffing, stealing, and this is called titein emes l'Yaakov. How does that work? So he said a yesod, that lying is only when you're... when the outcome is bad. If the outcome is going to be good, then you're allowed. Now I know a lot of people use this and misuse this by saying, Oh, I mean it for the good. You have to be careful. It has to really be for the good. It can't be just moreh heter that, you know, you think it's going to be. So how does that work? So I explained to you.

That it's possible, two problems of sheker. One, the words themselves, these words are false. And the second problem would be that the person is corrupt. The person is meshaker. He becomes a dishonest person by saying these words. So if the words are sheker, I don't know how you turn words which are false into words which are true and say the heter is, I mean it for a good purpose. But if the problem is deeper, and I proved to you the problem is deeper, because what would be the problem of saying malot about yourself that I'm not there? Who cares? Who cares? What are you saying? Big deal. What are you saying? So we said maybe the words are holy, lechadvarai. Maybe. Maybe it's the person. The person is not allowed to be a dishonest person, and the words he speaks represent the inner person who he is. Meila, when the gavra is dishonest, so if the gavra was honest and he did the sheker, then it's not called sheker. Maybe. Let's see some nafkaminas lahalacha from this. I'm going to bring you one, two, three, four, five, six cases where we find that lying was permitted in the Gemara. You ready? Six Gemaras. I'm going to teach you six Gemaras where we find lying was permitted in the Gemara. Let me start with the Gemara Brachos, daf yud amud beis. So the Gemara says that Rav Papa— Papa. Ikla l'bei Rav Huna. Who likes stories? You like a story? But I don't, I can't tell stories like the books. I'm not that good at that. I can tell you stories from the Gemara, which relate to halacha. Rav Papa ikla l'bei Rav Huna. Rav Papa went to the house of Rav Huna, brei d'Rav Ika. Aislei kameihu shemen v'hadas. They brought him shemen and hadas, good smellings. Shakar Rav Papa, barach ahadas b'reisha. So first he made the bracha on the hadas, and then he made the bracha on the oil, right? V'hadar bracha shemen. Amar lei, lo savar mar, halacha k'divrei hamachria? Don't you pasken that the halacha is you should do the opposite. You should make the bracha on the shemen and then the hadas. Amar lei, he said, no, hachi amar Rav, halacha k'Beis Hillel. What do you mean? Halacha is like Beis Hillel. According to Beis Hillel, you're supposed to make the bracha on the hadas and then the shemen. Says the Gemara, v'lo hi. It wasn't a true story. It wasn't true. When he said, no, we pasken like Beis Hillel, it's not true. We don't pasken like Beis Hillel. We pasken like the machria, that first you make the bracha on the shemen and then the hadas. So why did he do it? Why did he say it? Says the Gemara, l'shtamutei nafshei hu d'avid. He was embarrassed, and he made a mistake. So he said it. Ah, they said, to save himself. What do you see from this Gemara? That it's mutar l'shaker b'makom bizayon. If someone catches you, you did something, don't tell this to the little kids in the yeshiva, because they'll bad forever. Tell the truth. Why do we punish? Don't tell it to the wives. So why do we punish the kids if they tell a lie? That's exactly the question I just asked. I asked it in different words, but that's what I'm asking. I thought everybody was saying don't tell it to the kids because they'll be right, because they'll use it and they'll be right. That's the question. How can you punish a kid when he's lying? It's exactly what I'm asking. Let's read the Rashi. It says Rashi with me. It can be right. Read this Rashi. Give me a little Gemaras that I have. V'lo yigre, Rashi here. V'amar Rabba hilchesa k'beis Hillel. Rav Papa iksif. He was embarrassed. This is how he, you know, removed himself from the situation. Now let me ask you a kasha. First of all, if you want to be a darshan, I would say a very nice pshat.

Haloch k'Beis Hillel. What was he saying when he said, Haloch k'Beis Hillel? You know what I think he was saying? Beis Hillel would never do what you do. Haloch k'Beis Hillel. What do you think Beis Hillel would do in such a case? Beis Hillel was noichim zeh bazeh, halacha. Beis Hillel. Chut bi, he was sending him a message: Haloch k'Beis Hillel. You ask me such kashas? You're embarrassing me. I made a mistake. Don't you know that halacha—why is halacha like Beis Hillel? You ever know why the halacha is like Beis Hillel? Because they were very, very kind one to another. Noichim zeh. You caught me on halacha. You know, a lot of people like to rip a guy. You know, he doesn't know, he paskens wrong. Take it easy. Halacha is like Beis Hillel. Why is that halacha like Beis Hillel? Halacha is like Beis Hillel because what? Because noichim zeh bazeh, halacha. What do I have from this Gemara? One of two things. Either, kipshuto, we learn out that bimakom bizayon, where you feel that you're so embarrassed, you're allowed to lie, which could be a good halacha we can learn from here. Why? Because since the issur to lie is for what purpose? Only for corrupt reasons, and here he was lying to save himself from busha, so therefore it's mutar. Okay? I'm not telling you about any person. I'm learning this Gemara with you, slowly, slowly, slowly. Present in the United States. Present in the United States. I talk about Rav Papa; you're talking about the President. I know, I know. The President of the United States has no busha. Has no busha. What kind of busha could he have? He is a cheftza busha. What are you talking about? His name is Taka Busha. It's not כוונת התורה. It was embarrassed. Isn't it a bigger... The makom hefsed, to be moredeh al emes, it's not better? Huh? I agree with you, but I'll tell you the truth, that could be that you should do, but this is a heter what you could do. What you could do, the makom bizayon, that the—for who? For who? If you say eidut against another person, there's no heter. For yourself, yeah, the Chanani. What do you mean a heter? It's not mutar to lie to the beis din. It's mutar to be mishtamet from a matzav, but not to lie to beis din. In other words, there's a court procedure. In court, there's nothing to do with this. You have to tell the truth. But this is what, on a regular daily basis, your wife catches you, chvayzeh, you ate the cookies when she told you not to eat the cookies, and it's going to turn into a busha, a charpa, you know what I mean? It's going to turn into a whole story. Could be, could be, b'makom bizayon you're allowed to, but again— Won't the wife will know anyways? Huh? Won't the wife be able to tell anyways? Again, I'm not discussing with you how are you supposed to sneak away from your wife. If she doesn't help, it doesn't help. But I'm telling you that you see from here that a case of heter would be bizayon. Let me just point out, did he directly say in this case, halachos like Beis Hillel? What was his words? Let me see what the words that he said. Amalei, hachi amar Rav: halacha k'Beis Hillel. In what? Obviously, halacha is not never like Beis Hillel. Did Rav ever say these words, that halacha is like Beis Hillel? I taina that the raya that they bring from here is not 100% a raya. Why? Remember Yankev Avinu, even when he lied, did he lie straight out, or did he lie in a way that he switched it? I mean, Eisav, achicha, your older brother, Eisav, your father, your grandmother, whatever it was, right? There was a way out of the lie that, theoretically, the words weren't a lie. So I want to explain to you, where does that come from? So I want to taine like this: the words are a lie, so then the words are not a lie. There's two chisronos. We explain that it could be the gavra and it could be the words. On the tzad that it's the words, so Eisav took care of that by saying words which were not a lie. Elamai, but it's false. It's corrupt.

Those for a good reason. If you take apart Yaakov Avinu and use him as the mekor, so then we have actually two things we have to be careful: that the words shouldn't be a lie, and that, one, that it shouldn't be corrupt. That's the pshat. He didn't say words that are not true. Halacha k'Beis Hillel, it's true. You don't think Rava ever used the words halacha k'Beis Hillel? I'm sure he always did, because the halacha is like Beis Hillel. So this, that it looks not honest in this case, ichsif is good enough to come and say that it's not corrupt. It's not a sheker mitzad the גברא. That's how I would be miyashev to this Gemara. Let me tell you of another Gemara. Gemara Pesachim daf kuf yud beis amud aleph says that tannoyim, they used to steal over things in other people's names. Why? Because if they said it over in this tanna's name, they wouldn't accept it. So they said it over in this tanna. Then it's already something which people do all the time. It's called Remaisha said syndrome. The Remaisha said syndrome. Oh, this Remaisha said. Oh, Remaisha said. Remaisha said like this. How can Remaisha say all three things if all three things contradict each other? Remaisha said that also. Everything Remaisha said. This is the Remaisha said syndrome. Okay, and as far as the Rav Nati said syndrome: Rav Nati said this, Rav Nati said that, Rav Nati—everything he said. Okay, good. Is that sheker? All right, let's figure it out. The intention was good. You wanted it to be that people should listen. You hold that it's true. What about the words themselves? Is it sheker? So I tell you, good eitzah: if you come and say directly, Reb Avadia or Rebush, whatever it is, said this, this, then I would have a shtikel problem, because maybe they didn't say this. I don't know if you're allowed to lie directly and say the words. But if the pshat is that Reb Moshe said, meaning, who said not? Could be said it. I don't know. I know that he didn't say it. Maybe he said—if this stamlach, he probably did say it. I don't know so much I can look in the actual lashon. I don't have worked out exactly the right wording, what you should say, but I'm trying to bring out a point. If you're saying, Reb Moshe told it to me, don't say Reb Moshe told it to me. But if you're saying, Reb Moshe said, it's probably true. What happens if it's a contradiction? Yeah. What happens if it's a contradiction? Is it actually a contradiction to what Reb Moshe said? Then you can actually make him— So then I would tell you not to do it. How would you know? No, he's trying to say, what happens if it's— No, so how do you know? Just give it more that. How can I not do it? How do you know that? How do you know when if Reb Moshe was—I mean, unless a person goes through all of Reb Moshe, knows every single— And if not, you shouldn't do it. So don't say Reb Moshe said it. Say some obscure rabbi said it. For sure said it in a havamina somewhere. Whatever, I'm trying to say, again, I'm trying to bring you— That you remember that yesod. To come and say you see from these Gemaras you're allowed to lie is a very, very poor contention. I'm going to show you from all these Gemaras the intent was there, and could be even the words themselves weren't a lie. What about the fact that Rabbanim are in general are very makpid on that things shouldn't be said that not in their name? I mean, shouldn't people say things in their name which they didn't say? That's a general klal. I mean, Rebbe wouldn't want anybody saying, I don't know anybody. I don't know, I don't know anybody. That Reb Yerucham Gorelick once said, My Torah, you can say your name, but please don't say your Torah name. Right. Which anybody would. Right, I hear this, I hear this. Okay, let's move along. Let me just get out the yesodes, and then we'll be mefa... I don't want to give anything concrete yet. First we'll learn a few sugyos. There's a Gemara, Sukkah, daf lamed daled amud beis, that discusses a hadas katum, a hadas which is chipped. Is it kosher or not? Sukkah, daf lamed daled amud beis. Hadas katum. A hadas that's chopped on the top, is it kosher or not? Oh, so the Gemara says...

That Shmuel, yeah, Shmuel held it's no good. Halacha k'Reb. Amar רבי יהודה, משמואל, הלכה כרב. Halacha is like Reb Tarfon. But az de Shmuel, ta'amei, d'amru לו, Shmuel, hanu d'mezabni asvu. Oh, says the Gemara, he actually didn't really hold like Reb Tarfon, that it's kosher. What did he do? He was telling the people who are selling, You better be careful. You better not raise the prices for the good hadasim. You know why? Because I'll tell everybody the halacha is like Reb Tarfon, which is pasul, right? You hear? Which is kosher. So therefore you would be able to use the pasul. So I'm saying there would be no profit. So actually, says Rashi, halacha k'Reb Tarfon, lo hak. And he told them, moichru b'shavah. You got to sell the ripped ones the same price as the good ones. If they should bevakshu mikem shlosha hadasim, they're asking for three hadasim shelaimim, you know what you're going to charge? Like they charge today. They charge you five dollars for a branch. And if not, I'll tell you like the halacha is like Reb Tarfon. Wait a minute. Could you say the halacha is like Reb Tarfon? It's not. What? Can I lie? Could you imagine I get up and say, פסק הלכה. Halacha is like... give me a good case. Give me a good case. Good case, okay, whatever the case is, and I say the halacha is the exact opposite. Halach's exact opposite, and it's only to threaten the moicher. It's only to threaten the moicher. How does this Gemara work? So again, let's see clearly, let's see clearly. That's the point. That's what—he doesn't want them to overcharge. So he's telling— That's right. But here he's lying. He's cheating the velt. He's making— The moicher was starting to bring up the price about das. So what if he wanted to put it down? How come he used pasul adasim and finished? Pasul like a tarpit. You're allowed to use the pasul and finish. Too much money. You know it's brought down Shulchan Aruch that if they raise the price of a fish, buy-buy fish, finish, no more. But there the point is, it's not saying a lie. Here you're saying a lie. You come and say, I love like a tarpit. So let's go back to the Gemara. Let's see the proofs. Is it for good intentions? Yes. Is it a lie? I don't know. Maybe. So you have to see really the Gemara there. The Gemara actually says that originally he did hold like— So the Gemara there, the Gemara says, Chazar bo, he changed his mind. So maybe he was saying, I would go back. The lidroish lehu. Means originally he didn't hold like him, so it's not 100% a lie. Mai taima? So the Gemara explains that it has to do with drashos. So maybe with drashos he can come and say that it's not muchach. Literally he would have darshened. I'm starting with light, but then direct. Maybe. The classic three Gemaras that everybody knows probably is Gemara Yevamos, Samech Hei amud beis, that a person is allowed to be משנה בדיבוריה for the sake of shalom, for the sake of peace. That's in Gemara Yevamos, daf samech hei amud beis. I want to be medayek, משנה בדיבוריה. It doesn't say לשקר; it says משנה בדיבוריה. So again, this yesod. And I'll tell you the emes: nobody says it. It bothers me very much. Most poskim do not make the chiluk that I make. Again, in learning of the sugya, I'm not telling you against any poskim. I'm not here to discuss halacha l'maaseh l'maaseh, because I can't do that. It's not the right forum. What I'm discussing is how to learn up the sugya. It's interesting, they're trying to bring rayas, but I'm showing you from all the cases that they try to bring rayas, it's not directly straight out to lie. Bava Metzia, famous Gemara, that a talmid chacham, when they tell him he knows so much, if they are not, משנה בדיבוריה. See the lashon of the Gemara? Bava Metzia, the Gemara says that they say that it's not so. Here, so the Gemara: אמר רבי יהודה, שמואל בהני תלת מילי אדר רבנן דמשנו במילייהו. They change their words. Again, sheker.

Sheker, the Gemara says, mishaneh b'milai. Change of words. For example, the masechet, which means if they tell you, Do you know so much and so much? they don't say yes. Not to. Anavah, humility. Why are you allowed to lie for anavah? You tell me. No, seriously, you tell me, because gaivah is no good, so your intentions are good. Now, what do you lie? You're not really lying. You're being mishaneh b'dibur. You never know it perfect. You always could learn it better. You always learn it better. Again, I know. What's called I know? You can always—it's not a direct lie. Yes or no? Yes or no? I don't see the heter. Again, you don't see it from the... If the sheker could tell, if you say, yeah, I learned from a sefer, huh? The sheker, if you tell him that you actually did learn from a sefer, but saying that you should mishaneh, then is it sheker? Say the actual truth, meaning that you really don't know it so well? No. No, certainly not. The next thing is, b'puria, shimush hamitah, which means whatever discusses private marital inyanim, you don't talk about it. So therefore, you're mishaneh b'milai, and that's because of tznius. Here we have two more klalim: b'ushpiza, sha'alu al ha'ushpizin, kisvu b'sefer panim yafos. If they ask about, you know, you went to this guy, were they nice to you? You shouldn't come and say, Yeah, they were tremendously nice. You know why? Because then they'll have a line out the door. So therefore it's for his good. It's for the guy's good. So again, here we find that for three reasons you're allowed to lie. To help another guy, shogeg and ones. All right, so let's get the klalim again. Busha, that was the Gemara in Brachos. Pesachim, the kaposhiyes, kavu bilayv, that the word should be accepted. Sukkah, to get people to do what's right, you know, otherwise they'll be cheating people. Yevamos, shalom. Bava Metzia chav gimmel amud beis, and it says as well as Bava Metzia daf lamed, anavah, tznius, and helping the other guy shouldn't have a hefsed. But again, in all these cases I show you that it's only mishanu b'milayhu. It doesn't mean straight-out lying. It doesn't mean to straight-out lie. I don't see the hochachah for this. Okay. Now let's talk practical halacha l'maaseh. Now that we've got the yesodos, the groundwork, let's discuss halacha l'maaseh. If someone tells you a secret, you have no right to say it over. It's one of the loshon horos that the Chofetz Chaim makes into a lav. If someone tells you, by the way, you're not allowed to say it. You're not allowed to repeat it. So what happens if a guy comes over to you and says, Do you know someone? But you were sworn to secrecy, so what do you do? Are you allowed to lie for that purpose? So I saw psak from Rav Zalman, Rav Yoshev, in sefer Titen Emes l'Yaakov that quotes it, and he says that this, as well as bad news—you don't want to tell a guy bad news—you're allowed to come and say, I don't know. I don't know. Because since it's good reason that you're not telling the truth. So therefore, again, you see what they're doing is teaching you real cases of it's better you don't say. She said, I don't want to share this. So that's what I'm asking. I don't see where the word shiduch lashon, to say I don't know. You know, when someone calls me up for a shiduch, yeah, and I know horrible things about the guy, right? Some of it is a secret, and some of it is, I, you know, l'maaseh, a million different things why it's not kedai to say it, right? So you know what I always say? I don't come and say anything. I say the following, but don't call it shiduch, because then you'll know my trick, and don't tell anybody else, because then they'll stop, you know what I mean? They'll catch my secret. I say, I don't know anything bad to say about him. I don't have anything bad to say about him. I only have good things to say about him. It's true. You got it. My intention is good, but I didn't say one word of sheker. Do I? I don't have bad things. That was right. I have to say about him? No, because I'm not saying. I have nothing that I could say. I don't have bad things to say about him. We'll have to continue. Maybe we'll continue tomorrow. Continue tomorrow.