Shabbos 124a: Muktzeh, the Status of a Kli, and the Laws of Tiltul

Transcript

Mutar b'pahto, oicho. Where does he quote from Tos? Right? ... That's the Tos I just mentioned to you. Says the Mishnah Berurah, no, what's that? Mutar l'... Go ahead. ... כדי לאכול הפירות, אבל לאכול או ליהנות מדבר המוקצה. But to eat it, yeah, or to have hana'ah מדבר המוקצה עצמו, ... להשתמש במוקצה, to use it for fire, asur. That's familiar? I'm telling you, because the girsa for the pshat is that the muktsa of the ... The ... says, all food v'chuleh, which are not prepared from the day before, are muktzah. What muktzah? ... Then, מה שכתוב, ... That's already a machlokes. Let's say pashut means to move. Halachah l'maaseh, you need to move. Now, okay, now, what do I have to move? What do I have to move? You remember we asked a bunch of questions Thursday, and we said we'll get back to it. Remember all this? Yeah. Remember this? Sure, yeah. Come, ask the questions. They got the questions. Where's my sheet? Where are my notes? No, beginning till the end. First of all, we have to know the Rambam and the Rach, right? About tzorech, not l'tzorech. Remember that? Yeah. Okay. Then we had the kasha of the Rashba, that the Rashba says, how come in the Mishnah he doesn't say what? That the— no, more, it should have said, the Mechaber says only l'tashmisha. Why talk about tzorech and not tzorech, right? Right. Who does he ask this on? Only according to Rashi, not Rabbeinu Tam. When we had l'choira should be kasha on Rabbeinu Tam also. Then we said there's a machlokes Rabbeinu Tam and Rashi what קורב לצורך of the Remechanya, remember this? Right. Rabbeinu Tam says tzorech. Good. According to Rava that says according to Remechanya, לצורך גופו קאמר, it's mutar, but it's not l'tashmisha, right? Right. We brought that a teretz, so that's to say that that's the normal, that is called tashmisha, right? So then we had a kasha, so what's the Rav arguing on this? Right. Of course, tzorech גופו, why is it— No, there's no machlokes over here. If it's called tzorech גופו, then what's Rava, right? Remember all these kashas? Then we had a machlokes Rishonim by keli שמלאכתו לאיסור, if according to who, Remechanya, if it's mutar l'mkomo, right, like it's Rabbeinu Tam and the Rosh, okay? Then we had a kasha that once you're allowed to move muktzah, you're allowed to move muktzah, right? Let me talk to you. Point to a Nechem. Because a Nechem is muktzah, and a keli shemelachto l'heter have anything to do with Nechemia ben Chachalia? Who's Nechemia ben Chachalia? He's a nice guy. You know, there was once a guy called Nechemia ben Chachalia. Nechemia ben Chachalia. He's a nice guy, Nechemia. You know, it's like a guy once came and said that he walked into a shul and he saw a pair of tefillin. He thought it was לקחת, to put it on, and the guy tells him, It's Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. The guy says, Don't worry, when he comes I'll give it back. Don't worry.

No, no, the ... before. So, ... another story. Mind you of another story. They say in Eretz Yisrael today, a joke. We have a joke in Eretz Yisrael. There was a... You know what? Did you record it? רבי, when you're going to hear your ... you're just going to hear the joke. Only the joke. ... from the... Kitzur, so what does the Gemara say? Give me a mussar a little bit. Understand the mussar. ... Come, ... yes, listen good. You're listening to Shma Tov. So the question is, when the ... after, came l'shmisho, and boys say, Talk to me, tell me, is he learning the ...? I'm saying, ... I'm saying, only l'tashmisho. ... There's only mutar l'tashmisho. I'm asking you, is he learning the ...? It's like told you a million times that a mechamem is not the ... It has nothing to do with him. Why? The ... is learning a halacha of kilkul muktzah, and l'maaseh it's ... They were matir the keilim. They were matir the keilim, so they were matir it. Finished. So then what was the ...? Then the ... is קודם. They were matir. No, the ... So I always asked, I always told you, the ... is never talking with the ... because of the ... before they were matir. No, no, two. It's opposite. And the Chachamim's after the Mishnah. Thank you. And they were matir, they were matir, and they were matir. So what's from the Chachamim coming? ... only mutar l'tashmish. So where does that come from? The teretz is very poshut. The Chachamim בתרו מהדמוקs of Tosfos. Tashmish. Look at the words that he says. Notice when the Chachamim never said a keli is not ניטל. No, no, let me explain to you. The words that the Gemara says, אין כלי אלא לתשמיש. So Rashi learns that. What does the word אלא לתשמיש, what does that mean? Because the pshat is—oh, because he's not referring to איסור טלטול. Where you talk about איסור טלטול, what's the difference if it's מיוחד or not מיוחד for? You see? If the pshat is that it's הדין in the טלטול, so who cares why it's mutar or not mutar, right? But if you're willing that it's the מוקצה of הכנה, it's the real מוקצה, it's the regular מוקצה, comes along the Reb Chaim, because I'm already ... Since it's not, since it's not מוקצה לתלוי, only לתשמיש, so therefore it goes into the regular מוקצה. You see? It's not the טלטול that's Chachamim asser because of הוצאה. In the טלטול that the Chachamim asser of הוצאה, what's the difference why you're being metaltel? Who cares? No, what I'm trying to say is like this. When the Chemik came and said his halacha, when he ... only ... not ... Every single ... Since I hold that muktzah, I hold ... that's not tradition. If—yeah, I'm learning Rashi, I'm picking it up. I'll tell you truth. Should I tell you sharp, or I could tell you simple, and I could tell you sharp. Simple way to say is I understand the Rashi. You want me to tell you real sharp? I'll tell you real sharp. You ready to take it, or I shouldn't say it? I could say it very sharp. ... What's the difference? So we always spoke that one is a din in the gavra, one is a din in the kli, right? Remember we spoke this? But I never explained to you why one is a din in the gavra and one is a din in the kli, and the answer is very simple. Why? The gavra, the pshat is that's an issur ... because of hissach. The real muktzah, the real muktzah, you're not allowed ...

From the muks, it's דין בכלי. That's the Chasam Sofer's second halacha. You see, if you talk about the gavra, the pshat is the problem is not the kli. The problem is you're now being מטלטל because of עצמו. But there's a second din of muks. The second din of muks is that the kli itself, the food itself, whatever the thing is, it itself becomes asur if you want meichen it. דחינוי שאשר יביעו. You now have hana'ah from the muks. It's not a tiltul, it's not a חסרון in tiltul. The kli becomes like a davar asur. You now have hana'ah from this keli. That's right. ... מחמת ... הלכות מוקצה, not הלכות טלטול. In hilchos מוקצה, what is the halacha of tiltul? Halacha is it wasn't mukhan only for tiltul, להתיר ליחיד לא. In hilchos מוקצה it becomes asur. You understand it? What is the machlokes? The Mechaber learns דין המוקצה, and therefore we look at hamuchan and not mukhan, and the Rabbanan look at the person, צורך ונצרך. Correct? Do you agree with me that we've said this till now? Yes. ... we've said this till now? So far. Till now we said like this: the Mechaber learns you're not allowed to take even for gufo. Why not? It has to be תשמיש המיוחד לו, המיוחד לו, according to Rashi. Why? We don't look at the person. This is what I'm explaining to you today. Now you know why. One sec. ... Rabbanan ... As long as it's a tzorech gufo, mekomo, the chefetz is fine. I, we have the kasha: mekomo is not gufo, the cheftza. The answer is mekomo is a type of gufo, the cheftza. We spoke about it, right? Since I need the cheftza not to be here. ... Rabba, now, what's the hesber of the machlokes? Where does it come from? What are they based on? It has two muktzos. The question is, akei li shemelachto l'heter, that we know you're not allowed to take. Question is, where does it come from? Not kores and tachas koresos, any kli shemelachto l'heter. Right? Not true. Tosafos first, you're not taking it. According to some opinions, even after ... According to Chachamim, ... I mean, this is the Gemara. What's the ... If you learn that the issur is mitzad chutzon, tofel, it makes no difference if it's meyuchad or not meyuchad. Who cares? What's who cares? As long as the tzorech is there, the tzorech is there. ... If the issur is al tochto, you're now being metaltel because of ... Hasamik gavra. So it makes no difference what the kli, meyuchad, not meyuchad. What's the issur? It's not an issue. As long as you need it. The mechayev is coming from a different muktzah. The mechayev is whether it's real muktzah. It's real muktzah. What's the real muktzah? The real muktzah is ... the cheftza itself. Does he come and say, אסור בתערובת, או לא? Does he have to say, אסור בתערובת, אלו לתשמישו, or אין כלי ניטל? What's the lashon of the Gemara? What does this prove again? What's the lashon of the Gemara? It's not the pshat the person בעלים the patur. The kli is not mutar. You're not allowed to take this kli, אלו לתשמישו. Not allowed. Not allowed. It's called כלי ניטל. Huh? ניטל. First. אין כלי ניטל, אלו לתשמישו. That's pshat, and אין ליטול כלי, right? It's not pshat you're not allowed. The kli is mutar. Why again? Why? What's the difference? Why? The Gemara says, our Gemara, אין כלי. Who is this? The Mechamei that says here, אין כלי ניטל, אלו לתשמישו. כלי, it is אסור בהנאה, אסור בהנאה. You hear the words?

That's why, that's why we use the word tashmish. We're talking about usage over here. The heter is usage, דין of using the kli. A kli can only be used with tashmish, because that's what it's made for, finished. Yeah? Tashmish. No, you don't have it? You don't hear it? Not so much. And the other Rishonim. Rashi learns tashmish hameyuchad, meyuchad, meyuchad, and the other Rishonim learn no. Even if it's tashmish that I could use it, I would have used it, the chol, remember the sevara. What are they arguing? They're arguing this nekudah. If you learn that it's... if you learn it's the chamya bechachlali is halacha, as long as this could be called a tzorech, normal tzorech, it doesn't have to be meyuchad like. Tosafos learns that way. Rashi learns that it's meyuchad, he's medayek on the words meyuchad, tashmish hameyuchad. Memeila, that's why the Rishonim don't ask the kashya on the Mishnah only according to Rashi, not Rabbeinu Tam. What was the kashya? The Mishnah says shelo ltzorech, and the Rishonim have a kashya, why to come and say more, tashmish hameyuchad loi? They only ask it in Rashi, not Rabbeinu Tam. Very pashut, because only Rashi has this thing in his head that it has to be tashmish hameyuchad, the kli. The other Rishonim learn that it has to be ltzorech, what's called a tzorech, anything that I would use it for, even in the weekday. Because according to Rabbeinu Tam, it's not a special halacha, the kli, tashmish hameyuchad loi; it's not a halacha bichlal. It has to be ltzorech. What's called a tzorech? He has a much less of a degree of what's called a tzorech. Yeah, you with me? But not so much. Not so much. Where did you get off? When the Mecham, he said it's only ניטל לתורה תשמישי, right? What does the Torah תשמישי mean? What do I have to do? I have to do... I'm trying. A lot of things that I have. I'm telling you the truth now. I wouldn't be waiting for my... I promise you, I'm hungry, I'm sorry. I would be... I'm telling you the truth. Listen to me. Take a look. After the Chemya ben Chaflao, okay? The Maharsha is teaching that that's called tiltul. You saw that in the Maharsha? Where do I come into the picture? Meaning, what am I doing to you? I'm saying like, there is another type of muktzah, which is muktzah bes. Wait a second, you know? Reb Nechemya, he sounds like a little different type of muktzah than regular muktzah, because if it's a muktzah of me being the taltol, who cares that it's Torah chamiyuchad? Who needs Torah? Why does it be Torah chamiyuchad? Okay, לשיטת... Torah. Yeah, good, Torah. Who cares? Why does it be yuchad like, and it has to be yuchad? You have to argue on the Rashba that even if it's the weekdays he would do it, but it's not yuchad, yuchad is not enough. What is this Torah? What do I hear from Reb Nechemya? Say like, what if you're telling me it's defined to Torah chamiyuchad, then I hear the Chasam Sofer and Maharsha and Shulchan Aruch, Rama. You know which מוקצה? בטל. Since it's not צריך המיוחד, it was never מוקצה. Once it's never מוקצה, it's real מוקצה, not stam מוקצה to be able to carry out. It's real מוקצה. That you agree with me, and that's mamash clear. To argue this is like arguing with a wall. It's clear, right? Now I have an unbelievable machlokes here, you hear? Rabbanan, and this is what I always kept on telling you. I don't understand why after the Nechemia, machlokes over keilim, does the Nechemia still have a problem? What's the problem? I mean, why? Yeah, I mean, what I don't understand, what happened all of a sudden? Why does it still remain aser according to the Nechemia? The Nechemia was learning that the sugya of the Gemara of keilim, שמלאכתו לאיסור, has to do with real מוקצה. Real מוקצה. Real, real מוקצה. Not...

Good, you're asking me so far so good. It's real pshat. Makes sense. It's pashut. This is what it says. Now, what do I have from this? I have from this a number of these places. Rashi—I'm sorry, the Gemara that uses the lashon, ein kli nital. The Gemara never said you're not allowed to be notel the kli only if you have a tzorech, and the tzorech has to be tzorech hamuchlach. The kli is not nיטל אלא לצורכו. The major din of kli. It's a special din that a kli, meaning it is muktzah, it is asur b'hana'ah, only l'tzorech sheloy if it's muktzah. You see the difference? Next step. Now that this is true, I go back to the machlokes Rashi and Rabbeinu Tam. Rashi learns miyuchad. Rabbeinu Tam never said miyuchad. As long as people would— as long as it's done, right? Avada. The only thing is, Reb Nechemya has a stronger type of tzorech. What he calls a tzorech is any tzorech d'hu, and what Reb Nechemya learns tzorech, it has to be tzorech that people, normal people would use it. But it's not the din of miyuchad, it's not a special din in the kli. Only who learns like that? Only— no, no, Rashi. So who learns miyuchad? Miyuchad? So only Rashi learns the din of— So according to Rabbeinu Tam, is it difficult why it says in the Mishnah the words, Reb Nechemya omer, nitelin l'tzorech? No, it's beautiful. That's why Rav only asked on who— Rashi, that's not true. That's not a kli, it's only this. It's a different halacha bichlal. It's a kli, it's only this, it's a tashmishai. You're not learning this. It's a whole different halacha. This is the same halacha, just he has a different type of tzorech, that's all. Who said different type? No. The Mechamei is a different type of tzorech, only according to Rashi. According to Rabbeinu Tam, Rabbeinu Tam is just saying a svara like this. Avada, the Mechamei, you say tashmish. You know why? It has to make sense. It has to be what people would use or could use or should use. Avada, vaiter hotzaah. Avada is hotzaah. What? It's translating the tzorech. One second, maybe. You're a yachid. We don't look at you. Why, why, why? Because it has to do with the machlokes. No, no. It's because that's not called a tzorech. It's more if I have a personal mind, and he says, no, it has to make sense. It has to be something that a person... What's the step further? The step that we're saying is, I think it's understood to me that it has to do with muktzah or not. No. So that's what I'm telling you. No, it does. It has to do with tzorech and not tzorech. Tzorech. What's the translation of tzorech? The first shitah holds tzorech is any tzorech, even if I have a tzorech out of it. And the second one learns it has to be a normal tzorech. I can't make a broom a tzorech that I want to beat up somebody, because I found it's made to. So therefore that's not called a tzorech in the broom. That's right. That's the Rash's thing. Rashi, you were learning that it's a special halacha, ein kli nitla ela l'tashmish. It's not about tzorech and ein tzorech. I'm telling you, I'm reading you Rishonim. I wish I could explain to you. Believe me, I promise you that's the Rashbam. That is what the Rashbam meant when he asked the kasha. Not difficult, Rabbi. Good, huh? No, so I understand now, just being makatz to get to the point. They also understand the inyan of tzorech l'komo. What was the question? How could you have it be matir? Right? It's not going to get better. What you're showing is, when we matir a keli she'melachto l'issur, according to the Nechemya, how could you have it be matir keli she'melachto l'issur l'tzorech mekomo? I, kli she'melachto is never mutar l'tashmisho. That's the kasha, right? That was the original. The machlokes Rishonim, according to the Nechemya, that even keli she'melachto l'issur, so is it mutar...

Why can you not with a shlishi? How can you matir? According to the chet. Chet, rishonim ask for kash. Machlokes rishonim. We had this as a machlokes. Some rishonim say when we matir ... we had it Thursday. Some will be matir ... and some say no, can't be matir. According to the mechaber, he's not with a shlishi. So what the answer? The answer is that ... like to return it. ... Why? Why is it only according to Rashi? ... This is how I understand the ... The Rashba comes from the yesod that once you're holding, you're allowed to keep on moving, right? So we spoke, what's the pshat? When you started, yeah, right? How do you explain once you start, you're allowed to continue? Where does that come from, right? We spoke once, sure, it's just to move it, it's not to ... If you're learning that the pshat is that Chacham said the tiltul is asur, okay. And the tiltul is because of a issur, not the cheftza. The tiltul is asur. So once the tiltul is there already, meaning it's there, what more do you want? It's there already. Finished. It happened. If you, if you, when the kli becomes asur b'hana'ah, the kli is not allowed to be used. So what's the— I mean, once you picked it up, put it down right away. Finished, asur. Hallelujah. But if you follow ... there is second that you're holding. So what I say, if the taich is the tiltul, so what's the point? But everything is just נעש. But if you don't want tiltul there, the issue is the usage of the cheftz, so kol zman you're using it, now use it. So that was what we said last time. We said pashut you could come and say tiltul is from the beginning only. That's how we said. We said this last time. Why like that? I'm not saying—I don't know. That was ... Remember we said ... Maybe ... because it says, ... it says like it's nikar she's in masech chadash. Your mommy bringing in— No, no, why not? It says because you're bringing in chazarah, you're bringing in ... The etzem, the davar is muktzah, okay? And I don't see the difference. What's the difference, beginning or end? If you learn the davar atzmo is not muktzah, it's an issur tiltul alone. It's an issur tiltul alone. Then we could start saying, you know what tiltul means? It's this part. It's the picking up. It's not the continuous moving up, okay? If you learn that the cheifetz is a muktzah cheifetz, it's asur b'hana'ah, it's asur b'etzem, so then what's the difference when you want to aser it? It's aser. It's finished. This cheifetz is not allowed. It's aser. Kemo asur b'hana'ah. Here, somebody's asur b'hana'ah, rak asuk shelo matchil le'echol. When somebody's asur b'hana'ah, ha'isur... matchil... It's not—the cheifetz is aser, yes. Huh? How can you say? Because every second is a new tiltul. That's what I'm trying to say. Huh? He's arguing with me. All I'm telling you is like this: either you learn that, pashut, you learn for some reason Chazal asered the beginning and not the end. That's the simple way to learn, which doesn't make sense. Why? Why say aser the beginning and not the end? Like he said, he asered any time. He asered any time. What's the difference? If it's...

What's the difference? If it's the gavra, once the gavra picked it up, you say it's done, it's finished. That's exactly what I told you. I was learning in... Why? Because he's learning in Rabba. He's learning in the... No, only in the mechamelis. Before you chag, let me tell one thing. Remember what you said. I hold that Rabba and Rabba argue in the... Right? Rabba's learning it's a din in the cheftza. They're arguing in the... right? Rabba's learning in the cheftza that it's a cheftza. Rabba's learning in the thing that it's the gavra. So when the Gemara asks a kasha according to Rabba, right, the teretz of the Gemara—I'm sorry, okay, you're right—in Rabba, right, it's the gavra, right? Rabba's learning... No, the opposite. Rabba is the gavra. Right, but I'll tell you why I learned this way. I'll tell you why I learned this way. Because when they learn in... one whole sugya, gufa, right? One second. And the other one learns that... Say, one whole... is mutar, and the whole... What are they arguing? In Ranachami, what are they arguing? I thought that this is what they argue. If it's toch mekomo, it's a gavra. If it's toch mekomo, it's a gavra. It's toch kufoi, it's a cheftza. According to the man damar, what? If you matir teres mekomoi, then bytul is not the kli. Teres mekomoi cannot be the kli. I think gufa, that's what they argue in. And that's the cheshbon I made, that the Rashba... No, it's Rab and Rav argued gufa in Ranachami, this yesod. The machloikes... One man damar learns in Ranachami that it's the old, that he taka means this, and he will learn like Rabbeinu Tam. Why? Because it's not called tzorech. Mechameluch is not called a tzorech. Mechameluch is not called a tzorech at all. And that's why I understood that the Rashba... That's why I said, how does Rabba argue on Rav? Remember, what was the kasha? According to Rabba, it's called tzorech gufo, right? I asked you, so what is Rabba? Rabba holds it's not called tzorech gufo. I mean, what are they arguing? That to return something is called a tzorech and not a tzorech? Remember I asked you, what's pshat in Rabba? According to the shita—I'm sorry—according to Rabba, according to Rabba, the Gemara asks the kasha, according to Rabba, how could you ever return the... Huh? Rabah, hey, I'm sorry. How could you ever return? The Gemara answers, Rav Sheshet, right, comes along the Rashba, and he says that according to him, the chemda learns it's always צריך גופה; meaning, tashmish hamyuchad lah, it has to be צריך גופה. So how do you ever return? So what is the answer? That it's talking about it's normal to return; that becomes צריך גופה. The Rashba. So then I ask you, so what's the argument? What's the second sheetah? Well, he holds it's not called צריך גופה. And if it's not called צריך גופה, why do you draft the reisha? What's the teretz? I want to say that's what they're arguing. The teretz of צריך גופה can only be depending on what you learn tashmish hamyuchad. If you learn tashmish hamyuchad, the pshat is that it's הדין in the muktzah of the kli, so then there's no heter anymore, right? Because— and I'm confusing. You know what? Let's do it tomorrow. Again, ma'aseh טלטול. And you could clarify ma'aseh טלטול means what is called a ma'aseh טלטול. If the pshat is the cheftz becomes like a muktzah...

Like, ... what's called beginning and end? Yeah? This here? This is ...? Yeah? Okay. In the ... itself, the ... masa. ... Okay, yeah? You with me? A hundred percent, right? ... When the Chemer Chachlal, according to Rashi, is real מוקצה, some types of מוקצה. Huh? That's the ... Special halacha. That's why the Rashi, according to Rashi. Why'd you say that? The Rashi being mechadesh is, since it's not a problem b'etzem in the מוקצה, it's only a ... ... then I can start saying, what is total mean? Total means the whole time, or total means the picking up of? ... Shabbos ... So ... ... How can you ask ...? Because of Shabbos, Yom Tov ... Shabbos, it's a Shabbos מוקצה. Because it's ... ... nothing. No, let's make ... ... How could you ask ...? The Gemara says that it's not a kli, right? Over here, how do you do it? It's a teres kli alav. You have a teres kli alav, lo. Why by Shabbos? Okay. Why by Shabbos? It's not. It's not a kli. He's trying it out. Only with a kli. Now, I want to show you an interesting Gemara, and I'll tell you today what I want. Why? Oh, this we can discuss. What's called a kli? What's called a kli? What defines kli and not kli? I want to show you an interesting Gemara, mem-vav. Shraga d'nafta. You're allowed to move a shraga d'nafta. You're allowed to move it, right? Says the Gemara, Amar lei, hoyil v'chazi l'shibei mana. You can't bring me a raya from there, because here the shraga d'nafta has a ma'alah that even after its usage, you could still make l'chatzi b'keili. You're allowed to even cover a kli with it. No, with the shraga, with the candle. The Gemara is saying that after you use the shraga d'nafta, why is it ...? Because the Gemara says it has a tere. What tere does it have? You could always cover a kli with it, l'chatzi b'mana. Because it's a bottle cap, a shraga d'nafta. You can take the candle; it has a kli, you can cover. Says the Gemara, Ela me'ata, kol teiros d'Rav Yochi can cover a kli with, which is a special story, cover a kli, so then throw away muktzah. You know what? All muktzah, throw it out the window. Kol teiros shel chatzer metaltelin, v'hoyu bechatzer bimei... So then every time. Amar lei, hacha teiras kli. Hani le... Thanks, this Gemara, okay? That's the Gemara. That's the mekor. A rak doesn't have a teiras kli. Mashenkin the shraga has a teiras kli. Ah, right now we need to find a use for it because it's already finished; you can't use any more of the candle. But למעשה you can use it with kli me'umato. This is the Gemara. So what? Shem kli. It has a halacha of a kli. It has a din of a kli. That's exactly what we discussed today. Again, our Gemara tells us here, our Gemara tells a major discussion. Our Gemara tells us that the case of these pieces of wood, since it's l'maaseh not a kli, therefore it can be a case...

Even Shabbos is to be matzil, it's very good from the kaima. Therefore, even a Shabbos also, therefore, gezeirah Yom Tov I and Chumash, gezeirah Shabbos on Yom Tov. Good? I'm showing you that then this Gemara is coming from the Gemara of shraga d'nah. What's the shraga d'nah? Shraga d'nah means that I have a candle, which is like a kli, and I want to use it after I finish using it as a candle. What do I want to use it for? L'chsibei mana, says the Gemara, therefore it's not muktzah. The Gemara says every rock is that way. No, a rock doesn't have a תורת כלי. Now, the question is going to be, yeah, but l'maaseh it could be l'chsibei mana. I mean, the Gemara ... What does the Gemara mean? Gemara's saying since that could be l'chsibei mana, then it has a תורת, the rock also has a תורת, the bigas also has a תורת, right? What? Man, simple question. L'maaseh, if I could be mechaseh with this rock, so what makes it not a kli? Maybe it is a kli. Who says not? Why? It doesn't have ... Why not? That's the question. Again, what makes something Hashem kli and not a shem kli? That's going to be the shaylah. And the question is also going to be, well, I'm telling you what you could do with it. You could play marbles with it, you could cover a bottle with it. You see, this is what I'm trying to tell you. People don't know what they're talking about. Not you, in general. I mean, I don't mean you. I'm saying in general, when somebody talks, a rock, a rock has no ... You misunderstood halacha. It's not true. It's not true. If you were to say that a rock is מוקצה מחמת גופו because it has no תשמיש, you misinformed the halacha. It's not true. It's not true. It has a ... It's not clear. It's not clear. See, this is what I'm trying to tell you. You gotta get down to the bottom of the halacha. Bottom. Okay? Someone asks you, what's called מוקצה מחמת גופו? And the answer is, there's two criteria. Fish on Shabbos, for example, right? There's no ... right? There's no ... Raw fish. No, no, not ... raw fish, raw. ... right now, מוקצה מחמת גופו. Rock, also, ... Not true. Not true. Not true. You don't know what you're talking about if you say that. The Gemara is clear. And what is the real reason? You do have a ... in rocks. There's many things you can do with rocks. Rocks you use to fight, throw at your husband. You say what? The ... firewood. You don't use firewood to fire? Look at ... What's the ...? Wood. Why can't you put something on the wood? I haven't seen this. This is disappointing. But don't come and tell me there's no tzorech. That's all I want. That's all I'm trying to tell you. The word muksa machmas gufoi, if someone tells you something that there's no purpose for on Shabbos, he's off his rocker. He's off his rocker. He פשוט didn't understand that הלכה. And now I'm going to show you from a Rav Kiveiger that even food, which is muksa machmas gufoi, meaning frozen, frozen food, again has to be put in a kli. Let's say you have a piece of raw chicken, raw meat. You can't do anything on Shabbos, right? No? You know what? Let's say it's good food. Raw meat. That's halacha. Raw meat, raw fish. Halacha. Raw fish on Shabbos is muksa machmas gufoi. And everybody says, 'Raw,' because there's no tzorech for it on Shabbos. Don't say that. It's nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that it's not a kli. And we soon shall see. Okay, that's what we'll discuss. If food is muksa, right? Okay, we'll soon see. Ready? Are you ready? Are you ready?

That's your cash, yeah? That's your pashte cash. Our Gemara tells us a svara clear enough, a pashte question to you: Why do the Chachamim take a kli shemelachto l'issur and say that it's muktzah l'tzorech gufo u'mekomo, and a mukhman machmas gufo is not muktzah l'tzorech gufo u'mekomo? Why by kli shemelachto l'issur? Why not? What's the difference? You see, what we just was till now, I was banging away at you, keli shemelachto l'issur, right? Keli shemelachto l'issur, knocking you, keli shemelachto l'issur. Now I want to talk to you, keli shemelachto l'issur, not l'issur, the mukhman machmas gufo. Why is a mukhman machmas gufo not muktzah? Why not? Why not? Please, mamash far from use of the man. Kli shemelachto l'issur is asur, which is something which is not... Also, it's the fact that it's kli, because kli can be used. Let me quote you. Do you remember the Gra we spoke about from Reb Shlomo Zalman and Yoreh Deah? And he says that what? Gezeiras keilim is not muktzah, but gezeiras keilim is what? A special din of hotza'ah. Remember that? The special problem. What was his raya? Do you remember his raya? Because Reb Shimon, who doesn't hold of muktzah, Reb Shimon doesn't hold of muktzah in beitzah, so holds muktzah, right? You're not allowed to be metaltel kelim on Shabbos. Right? Reb Shimon who doesn't... Okay, I'm saying, again, I could be making a mistake in this. Maybe I'm just not remembering exactly Reb Shimon, but it's clear Reb Shimon doesn't hold of muktzah. I mean, the machlokes ... is not Reb Shimon. Reb Shimon ... on beitzah holds ... right? He doesn't hold of muktzah. The Gra says the teretz is because kelim is not muktzah. It's not an issur muktzah. What is it? It's a special takanah of—what did we say yesterday that Reb Nechemya is saying what? Not that kelim ... but he learns the muktzah, right? The Gra is saying that pashut, the Rabbanan— Why is that not muktzah? This is something else. Why should muktzah? What do you want? Because you're already remembering after the issur muktzah. Now the Chachamim said muktzah, so you look at phone, fan. Who says something about the phone and the fan? Where does it say in the Torah? You hear? Yeah, you're with me or you're not? Not נגיד. Listen, let me show you something. You know, I'll tell you a very nice story, one of your good stories. I heard it from a Kaplan. I heard it from Kaplan. Kaplan. ... Sholom ... I coined, no, Mussipelli, Bob, Bob Pigeonade. He told me the story by the Pigeonade. He told me, I told him already, that the Shanghai, when they got the Yudiah that the mochama was finished. Tremendous yediah, because during the war they couldn't leave Shanghai. They were stuck in Shanghai throughout the war, the World War II. Shanghai. No, there war in Shanghai. China was fighting the United States, Pearl Harbor. Japan and—I'm sorry, China and Japan. You know where that was? That was it. They were stuck. They went with Germany. World War II, they saw that this was a tremendous, tremendous problem there. They saw the Nazi problem, okay? The Nazis. So first of all, they ran for the Bolsheviks, they ran for the Russians, and then they had to run from the Nazis. So there was a whole group of people that came to America. They ran to America. But not everybody was able to come to America. There was an opportunity to run to Japan, an opportunity to Kobe, to Kobe, Japan.

Rabbi went to Japan. Kobe. Rabbi went to Kobe. Rabbi went first to Kobe. Rabbi Koppel went to Kobe. From Kobe, he got a visa to come to America, and he quickly came to America before the war, right before the war. Once the war broke out, no one was allowed to go anywhere. Japan, they went together with the Nazis. They went together with the Nazis, and they threw the Jews out of Japan. Japan was Nazis also. They went with the Nazis. They threw the Jews out of Japan. Kobe was—my grandmother told me that Kobe was gorgeous. Kobe was possible, beautiful. They had houses, and they had—beautiful. They lived together. They lived among themselves, but beautiful. It was always sakana. You never knew the next day. You see that they got thrown out of Kobe, got thrown out. It was totally Kobe. The miracle of Kobe is unbelievable story. How did they know to leave Kobe? My grandfather. What happened was they came, unfortunately, the Japanese— not the sanin— came and they told them, You better go now. Told the Jews to get out before we throw them out. They told them, You better— They went to Shanghai. They went to China. Japan, they went to China. They accepted them as refugees. They lived in a ghetto. They lived in ghetto, communists. They lived in ghetto. They weren't with the Nazis or Chinese, but communists. So they lived under communist rule for five years, whatever, four years, whatever it was. They made it. They made it themselves. They made Jews know how to take care of themselves, you know what I mean? I listen, it wasn't a lot. Most people died from hunger. People died from hunger, but hamonam had. Not only the yeshiva, the German community, the Spardic community. You know, before even what you call the yeshiva, Ashkenazim, the Germans came, there was a Sephardi community. You know who brought them? There was a rav, a Sephardic rav, named Ben Chaim. Moroccan rav brought them, brought over the yeshiva. There's a picture of him. You want, I'll bring you the picture tomorrow. He was a kid. He was the rav of Shachai. He was the rav of the Beis Aaron shul. No, he was the Sephardic... Moroccan rav. No pictures of that. Ashkenazi. He looks... There was a rav, there was a Moroccan rav. He was a rav. No glasses. Moroccan. I'll show, bring you a picture. Moroccan rav Ben Chaim. The kid, he was the one who brought over the yeshiva. He made sure that they came over. He was instrumental in bringing over the yeshiva, and he gave them their shul to learn. The first shul they learned in was his shul. His shul. They learned over there, his shul. Bottom line. When they finally, in Shachai, were told that the war was over, it was on Shabbos. The captain told me they found out on Shabbos. How did they find out? Two Japanese, two Chinese sailors came, important phone call for my grandpa. Important phone call. He has to come into his phone call. It was Shabbos. They asked maybe— no, they didn't say first. First they said they're looking for my grandpa. That's how he started. So they asked if they could go, if someone else could go instead, because who were they going to find him now? I mean, they don't know. He could be in his house. He could be in any— he could be anywhere. They're going to be anywhere. Start looking throughout China to find him. I mean, they lived in many— they lived all over China. I mean, not all over, all over, but I'm saying it was a big place, you know what I mean? Literally every house by house. So they said, No, the ... need him. They went looking for him, and they finally found him. They told him there's two ... for them. What? He came. This is a important phone call. Came, came. He followed them, and then, l'maaseh, it was Shabbos. He didn't want to pick up the phone. He didn't want to pick up the phone on Shabbos. So they told him. My grandfather said maybe the ... should listen to what the phone was about, and he'll tell him instead of him talking on the phone on Shabbos. Kaplan told me that they said to my grandfather, L'maaseh, might be pikuach nefesh. So he says, Let them do it. Let them pick up the phone. So they said that, No, it has to be back to the only person that the guy is willing to talk to. So what happened was that they held the phone, my grandfather's side, they should hold the phone, and he'll listen to the phone. That's what he did. What's the pshat? He knew it was pikuach nefesh, and he knew he had to answer the phone. He just didn't have the heart to talk on the phone on Shabbos. But you know what that comes from? That comes from years of knocking into the head, ... But that's all he has to ... We look at a phone, ... It's not muktzah. It's not treifus.

What is this? Nothing. It's a drabonon. Look, it's a drabonon. Dialing. It's a drabonon. All drabonon. Most of the problem is drabonon. Dialing, you have a little bit of, like, crystals maybe, but I'm saying that the actual phone, to move the phone on Shabbos. Talk might be a problem, like I said, because the talk makes zeh, it's like a loudspeaker. I got to understand. Moving is nothing. Moving is not. To pick up a phone is nothing on Shabbos. If a guy is calling you on Shabbos, you pick it up. The only thing you have is drabonon of muktzah. Yeah? Nothing. Tell me. I'm disconnecting. The ring. The ring. I'm not ringing. The other guy calls me. I'm picking up the phone. If the cordless phone... Recharging, you say? Recharging with phone, yeah. Regular phone on Shabbos. A rotary dialing phone. What do you mean, a regular charging phone? A regular rechargeable, regular rotary phone. The phone from 1960, okay? 1960, 1970. There's no issue to pick it up on Shabbos whatsoever, except drabonon. You're not closing nothing. What are you doing? That's another Shabbos. It's another question. Separate issue. You're allowed to close the phone on Shabbos. There's a shaila. It's a big shaila. For a woman giving birth, they say she goes back, she might fall back, they let her hang up. I said because it's a tzorech. I keep this all... The metzius is a phone is only muktzah. And people, what they do is they throw. Only muktzah. Relax. Take it easy. It's no more than muktzah. That's all it is, okay? Light. Light. Pay attention, because you're gonna go from one topic to the next topic. Come, yes? Light. Stop this story. ... telephone ... It didn't make a difference. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. The whole thing is not, again, what, you held the phone or they held the phone. What's the difference? You're picking it up because it might be pikuach nefesh. What's your shaylah? What, the holding of the phone. You want to know something? Technically speaking, you can hold the phone and not move it. There's no problem. They pick it up, you take it, and you put your ear there. You know, sometimes they should hold it. That's what I try to tell you. When you know halacha, when you know halacha... now you're playing a little bit. Now, I'm holding it, then I can move it. That's already... Yeah, because that's called moving. Every time, every time, just pick it up. Now I'm holding it, I'm allowed to move it. See that? Look, see that? Look. Something instead of... when you look to pick it up. So I'm telling you, you can't come and say that once I'm picking it up, I'm allowed to move it. All I'm trying to say is, like, grandfather was nervous about it. It doesn't really exist. Technically, it doesn't exist. So even if they have the goy to hold it, you can hold it also, as long as the goy picks it up. If there was still... Yeah, the whole story. What I'm trying to tell you is, you know what you see from the story? It's so drilled into your head, a phone is muktzah, that you think, Ooh, he's on the phone on Shabbos. I was thinking about that also. מסתמא in those days, it was new, the phone, and Reb Shlomo Zalman wasn't around yet, so to speak. You know what I mean? Reb Shlomo Zalman took... All I can say is, there was no Torahs Reb Shlomo Zalman to take apart every part of a phone, you know what I mean? So they looked at the phone... The point is, yeah, once it's muktzah, it's muktzah. If you don't hold it's muktzah, there's no problem. I mean, after we know that there's a problem, then yeah, oh, it's a phone. Technically it's nothing holding your phone. Okay, now, what do I have? If Shimon doesn't hold of muktzah, says the Gra, so what's... we're picking up a phone, we're picking up a keli shemelachto l'issur, teretz is a special gezeirah placed on... The Tosafos reads in Kuf Chaf Gimel on the day.

One second. I started the shiur like this. The Gemara tells me a chiddush, because I want you to see what I want. Wait a second. The Gemara tells me a chiddush, but by the kas, shechitah is not a kli; it can't be a keli shemelachto l'issur, right? That's what the Gemara tells me. The Gemara also tells me that shechitah has a din of muktzah machmas gufo. Why? Because, again, it doesn't have a shem kli. Meaning, don't say it doesn't have a tzorech; it has to be kli and not kli. Muktzah machmas gufo and keli shemelachto l'issur—the difference between the two is keli shemelachto l'issur. There's no keli shem muktzah machmas gufo; that's the difference. That's called knowing the halacha. People don't know the halacha; now you know the halacha, okay? Not pshat muktzah machmas gufo, but there's not pshat keli muktzah machmas gufo. There's keli shemelachto l'issur and there's muktzah machmas gufo. Good? Yeah, clear? This is clear? Yisod. This is clear? Good? Nu, rabosai, good, yeah? Okay. Now, what do we have from this? What we have from this is like this: l'choira there's a she'eilah. There's a she'eilah, why keli shemelachto l'issur, did they asser a tereh gufo b'mekomei? I'm sorry, matirin tereh gufo b'mekomei, and a muktzah machmas gufo they didn't matir tereh gufo b'mekomei. Why? What's the difference? Why is there a difference in halacha? That's the question. The difference—tzorech gufo, shemutz. So the emes is, I'm telling you, the Gra tells me that in hilchos... Teirutz laklus, that mutar toirtuf on the koima, the emes Reb Shimon, who doesn't hold of muktzah. He's still holds. Why? Because it's a new takanah. The Tosafos Rid learns not like that. The Tosafos Rid learns, kuf chaf gimmel amud beis, first Tosafos Rid, according to Reb Shimon, who doesn't hold of muktzah, doesn't hold of all these rules. There's no siman shin ches; doesn't exist according to Reb Shimon. Okay, this perek doesn't exist. According to the Tosafos Rid, doesn't hold of muktzah. But some of them, no. That's a weird telling you, because the Gra says, the Gra says, huh? Tosafos Rid. And by the way, the Gra is a purisher Rid. The Ritva says clearly, Reb Shimon, who doesn't hold of muktzah, holds of kol hakeilim, holds of keilim. ... understood? Good? Because according to the ... there's no muktzah. There's no kol hakeilim. The parsha of kol keilim. ... doesn't exist according to Reb Shimon. But according to Gra, why muktzah? What makes this muktzah? Right, and Reb Shimon doesn't hold of ... Yeah, but if you're talking about according to Gra, even according to Gra. Right, right, no? That's what the Gra says, but Tosafos disagrees with this. Tosafos Rid holds, if you don't hold of muktzah, then you don't hold of ... The ... mechlal, it doesn't exist. Pshat, he didn't learn that it's a special takanah; he holds it's regular muktzah, there's no muktzah. Pushes Tosafos Rid. He had ... muktzah. Nu, it's geday to come to shiur to know this. Tosafos Rid, unbelievable. You know what? Imagine guys that come and say like this: You know what? I'm moving muktzah. Last, you know what? I passed. Siman shin ches doesn't exist in Koitzer Reb Shimon. Did you know that? So פירוש תוספות reads. Okay. What do we have? I'll tell you what we have, the big yesod. And the truth is, I told this yesod to you yesterday, and I told you the day before, and I told you the day before. The takanah of the mecheni bechaslalyu. What do we have? There's a big yesod in Hilchos muktzah. The takanah of the mecheni bechaslalyu is not really muktzah. It's haitza. Muktzah machmas gufo is really muktzah. Why? There's no heter tzorech mekomo. There's no heter tzorech mekomo. Why? Because you're not motzi. This is kelim. Kelim are the etzem not muktzah. Kelim are omed muchan. The only issue that we could give it is haitza problem. Okay? There you go. Finish. Muktzah machmas gufo is not a kli. It's not muchan. That's why there's no heter tzorech mekomo.

Not a kli. That's just not a kli. Anything which is not a kli, that's the pshat in this sugya. Bekas, says the Gemara, it's not a kli. Once it's not a kli, then it's real muktzah. There's no heterim on muktzah. Muktzah is muktzah. I, tzorech gufo, tzorech mekomo, who cares? That's what the Gemara means by tzorech l'sulso. You could use it, you could use it to stuff up a bottle. Yeah, but it's not a kli. Who cares? Who cares? Like, pashut, it's not a kli. Because what's pshat in kli? Translate kli. Why is a kli mutar? It's omeid l'shimush. As since it's omeid l'shimush, therefore it's not muktzah b'etzem. B'etzem it's not muktzah. What does muktzah mean? Muktzah means I put it aside not to use, but it's omeid to use. The word kli is a davar which is omeid to usage, and that's what gives it the shem kli. What gives it its shem kli? What does a kli mean? You know, I once had an uncle who called me a ma'idi convert. Huh? You want to go? Yes, come, come, come. Yes. I once had an uncle who called me a ma'idi convert. Yeah, come, fine. I once had an uncle who called me a ma'idi convert. Such a Rosh Yeshiva, I don't want to say his name, I won't say his name, was such a gevaldige Rosh Yeshiva, he was able to explain using the Metzios of a cup. Please tell me why. The Metzios of a cup. When I heard it then, I didn't know what he was talking about exactly. And then I understood, over the years, what he was talking about. You know what the metzius of a kli is? There's a metzius to a kli. You know what it is? What is it? Oimed lushimos. Anything which is oimed lushimos is called a kli. Think about it. Think, think, think for a moment. Think about it. Everything is... Look. It's not a kli. I never heard that. Tell me, are called kelim? Are they kelim? Yeah, but it's called kelim. Yeah. Keli cholg tel yacha. What does it say over there in the thing? U'parshat kelim. Why are called kelim? Yes. A rock. Only a rock. Because since a rock is not oimed lushimos... Right. If I take... I cannot make fire from a rock, so I cannot do something with a rock. Especially a rock. This is a nekudah. Since it's not normal... It's not normal. So you don't... So then, pshat, I could come and be meyached something which is not a kli to be a kli. That's a different nekudah already, you see? Those days they used to carry the stone... It by itself, it by itself is not oimed lushimos. Does this. So that, if that's true, then it becomes better with ... or it becomes ... So then it's a ... then. Who? ... The Gemara says. The Gemara says. ... Yes, that's the Gemara's teretz. That is the Gemara's teretz. ... Gemara means ... Gemara says ... because I could use it to take out the ... That is the Gemara. But you don't use it, like, for certain ... That means anything depends on how you raise it, where you raise it, what they would use. If they would not use it ... For the ... ears. So then tevel is not muktzah. Most people don't use it. I mean, tevel. What is tevel? ... Could be that's an extreme case. No, no. Tell me, doesn't Mishnah Berurah say you should be machmir by tevel? ... Clearly you have to be machmir. Of course. ... Tevel's not made for that. I don't want to use it for that. So then it's ... I guess. ... now for toilet paper.

Now, with the yuka, I need glass in order to be a kli, so then I should be... But לגבי glass, we talk about kli. That's the translation of the word kli. Something which has no use, right? Because it comes out that when people say has no use, they're not wrong, but they're not right. Because the pshat is, it has no use; it's not a kli. Now, if it's not a kli, then it's מוקצה מחמת גופו. They missed one step of the equation. That's this Gemara. And that's why there's no heter of ... from a kli. Where would they matir ... from a kli? Only in l'chemi bechachlaliyah, in the takanos keilim. In regular muktzah, why should there be a heter? Could you imagine it's asur but a little muktzah? Why should it be mutar? If it's real muktzah, why should we matir l'tzorech? The muktzah muktzah can't go away, and the ... is really not muktzah. A keli is not a muktzah. B'metzius, a keli is not a muktzah. I want to show you something interesting. Take a look at the Mishnah Berurah, siman taf tzadi tes. Yes. Taf tzadi tes, se'if katan pei zayin. A person offers muktzah machmas... Beautiful. But you're allowed to take it into the house. Go ahead. ... Kol tzarko. Rabbi Yehuda. Go ahead. רוצה לומר... Mishnah Berurah says, ... I thought it's a muktzah machmas... How can it be mutar to take off for a ...? It's muktzah machmas gufo. I was talking — the kas. I was talking. What happened? How come the kas is asur? Well, what happened? Sound familiar? Does it sound familiar? Good? Oh, yeah, yeah, the ka. What? Because ... So he brings ... says ... says ... what does he say? Huh? Yeah. Yeah, okay, yes. Why? Because he's telling you, you better look over there. Why? ... it's mutar ... af lechatchilah ... af de'issur haya, lomar, dekavanaso lo haya ela ledvar shetashmisho tadir, vadai. Aval lo l'zeh, zeh shelo yaaseh hatinok, hatinok ... babayit, vedavka bzeh sheachniso labayit bistama. ... dedaato lechol ma sheyitzterech. Aval im hichniso ledvar shetashmisho, vadai, kegon shehichniso lechasot potah, o shedaato lichsot ... asur lechasot botoah. ... Yes, because ... Those ... you talked ... certain shimush. Shabbos kivanta, so what is that called? That's called ichud, right? Or keilim, or muktzah machmas gufo, it's miach, right? It's pogem, right? This you see clearly in the halachah. Now the question is, I had kavanah — says in the Mishnah Berurah, there's a tzad to say, rak al ma shekivanti. ... And why is there yesh cholkim? Look at the Shaar HaTziyun. Yesh mekilin, because it's already even on safek sfeka. Only on what I had in mind when I was ... I and ... Whatever you want. ... What is he talking about when he does ...? According to ... Shul kavana, he means l'kol sarki. That's when the Mechaber says. The Rabbeinu says, oso b'kol sarkai, where he was mechaven for one thing, then it's only for that thing. Yesh mekilin on the safek. Why? Because Mishnah Berurah says, kavanah tol gama l'safek. You see the Sha'ar Tziyun? That's it. No, but he says Sha'ar Tziyun on this, because he says because then it remains like he had kavanah on the safek. ... But it wouldn't be ... on it? I don't see. Why is it ... for one?

But the not. Understand? But the not. And the teretz is not a kli. Don't you understand? That's the whole nekudah. The nekudah is that something which is not a kli, there's a din yichud. Once there's a din yichud, then the pshat is, is yichud for this and not for this and for that. But let's say something is a kli. Could I do any tzorich with it? If I have a kli shel heter, right, is it batel l'tashmishai? Like a mechaneh, we pasken כן. Even if it's a tashmish that doesn't make sense, and the answer is, in a mechaneh! In a mechaneh! We pasken all kelim mutar. The only thing is maybe shelo l'tzorech, you're not allowed to pick up something, and some say even that you're allowed to do. No, you're missing. We pasken like who? Like who? Like the... mechaneh, we don't pasken. Mutar machmas gufoi, with yichud, with yichud, is like a mechaneh on a keli shemelachto l'heter. You see the difference? Let's say, on the acheres, it has to be tashmish vadai, and there's certain times yes, certain times not. I have to mechaven for it. I don't have to. I have to one thing: let it become mutar. And the teretz is, because it's never between. A keli becomes mutar and it's mutar. This is the pshat. It's mutar, it's muktzah, real mutar. And if it really looks, so what does it lack in, ha? Chanah. And if it lacks in hachanah, then what happens? Only what I was making. Choshev pshat. I promise you, that's not even a chiddush. You want to know something? It's funny, I'm saying it like it's a shiur. It's not a shiur, it's a mishmurah. I'm not even saying it. It's a mishmurah. I mean, more than that, it's really not my chiddush. It's not. I mean, it's the halacha. I'm telling you halacha l'maaseh. If I have a kli, yeah, can I use it for whatever I want? What's the pshat? What's the pshat? The kli is not muk... You see the difference? A mukצה machmas gufo, that I was meyached, what's the halacha? And only for what I was meyached for. You just read it. I didn't read it. You read it. You can't make it. You could make a general hachanah, but that's the hachanah. I was meyached it stam for everything. But if I don't make a general hachanah, one thing that it's not for, the other thing. Even the yesh cholkim on the subject, because it comes like I had kavanah for the subject too. But if I didn't have kavanah, only what I had kavanah for. Why is it different? Because that's a kli, it's not a kli. This is real mukצה. That's what I want to say. Because we learned in Reb Lechemya is what we really pasken in the Rabbanan, by mukצה machmas gufo. Meileh it's only patur. You need two things: the meyached and the meileh is patur. I'm telling you, you know what it is? It's not even—I promise you, I promise you, this has nothing to do with me. So you know what? Sometimes when I talk, I'm thinking you're thinking I'm saying chiddushim. I promise you, this has nothing to do with me. This has nothing to do with me. This is — I mean, ... And the chemya, tash — and that's why I explained to you, because it's real muktzah. Once it's real muktzah, then it's only tashlumin. That's the same halacha. It turns out that the chemya, keilim shemelachtam l'heter, is the Rabbanan's muktzah. It's so real. רבי עקיבא איגר, דף — you look it up. I don't have time. You look it up. Rabbi Akiva Eiger, please look it up. Do me a favor. I'm not telling you to do — do me a favor. Rabbi Akiva Eiger, daf beis, says a mefurash. Ketzud — food — he said about it, רואה לחתוך בו פת. Yeah, yeah, ... רואה לחתוך בו פת, regular food, not beis. Rabbi Akiva Eiger says it doesn't apply. This Gemara — the Gemara says that there's a sevara called רואה לחתוך בו פת, רואה לחתוך בו כלי, is not worked by ochel. Why not? Why not? It's not a kli. There's nothing to talk about. Food doesn't...

But why you brought the ...? It's all over Shas. ... Let's see, l'chaschivai. ... because it could be said in the ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. They used to use it. They used to use the foot of the ... You can find a different ... strong like ... You know what? You look for it. You'll find it. It's not. I'll find it tomorrow, because I have to look in the ... They close it to ... The ... says, oichel could never have a heter of a kli. Oichel. And the teretz is saying svara, because oichel is not a kli. Oichel is not a kli. By treifos, you see, you have a ... No, the ... The ... says, oichel. Okay, I'll have to find it. The ... has the anan like a cup. There's the ... there's the kli, and you can use it like a cup. Again, I don't know. Okay, you know what I mean? Again, the ... is saying a ... You know what the ... is telling me? Even something which is not muktzah machmas gufoi, meaning what? It's not muktzah machmas gufoi. It's not what? You can't come and tell me, like treifos. There's no svara ... to make it ... oichel. That would turn into a kli. Now, what do I have from all this, halacha l'maaseh? Besides that I explained to you the geder of a kli, the din of muktzah machmas gufoi, and this sugya of a ... You know what else I have? I'll tell you what I have from all this. Interesting shitos that the Pri Megadim brings down. From the Pri Megadim in Shabbos, siman zayin, and Orach HaShulchan, siman reish ayin tes, aleph, and the Chazon Ish, siman mem aleph, all say the same halacha, besides the Mishnah Berurah. I don't know what the Mishnah Berurah brings down. A keli shemelachto l'issur, which has no tashmish heter whatsoever. Could you use it for? There's nothing else you could use it for. A fan. Something which has no melachas heter that you could use it for. A telephone. I mean, there's nothing you can do with it. According to these poskim, a telephone. All right? These poskim hold, you know, I'll use it. There's no tashmish heter whatsoever. It's not mukham yeilam. Ela, you can be meikel. It's very good. ... Shivrei hen nitlin b'Shabbos. The broken pieces, the broken pieces are also nital imahen. Uvilvad, on the condition sheyihyu me'ein melachah. It has to do me'ein melachah. What does that mean? Shivrei areivah lechasos bahem pi chavit. Broken pieces of an areivah basket has to be to cover a pi chavit. Shivrei chuchit lechasos bahem pi pach. Who don't? Everybody says no. Uvilvad sheyihyu me'ein melachah. It's not stam me'ein melachah, but it has to be me'ein melachah. Actual. For example, shivrei areivah lasuk ltochan makpeh, in order to put into it a clump, a makpeh, something which has to harden. That's what we're talking about. That's the sugya. Zehu asuyah. What's what happens to noylad? Very good, my boy. You're becoming a big posek.

Let me tell you something. The minute you know, you'll see how every Gemara is amok, you know. Ready? Kids, says the Gemara: Shearei, vala tuktochan makveh, shel chuchit, something that has to harden, kafui, has to become lumped, areiv is the best. Areiv is the best. Which one? Let's. Let's. It's to pour into it. Something makveh that has to harden, like maybe a tar or something. You know, it has to be poured, and then it has to be makveh. It has to become kafui. Kafui has to become hard. Okay? Shearei, chuchit, latuktochan shemen. Rashi: me'eim melacha? Shum melacha. The difference between me'eim melacha and me'eim melachtan: me'eim melacha means shum melacha, any melacha. Afilu eina me'eina harishona, even if it's not the same. What? Even if it's not the same as the original. For example, latuktochan makveh, aveh dumya d'isa, me'urevet b'mayim. Because what's an areivah for? An areivah is for the bread. What is it also? It's the dough-like, right? Me'urevet b'mayim. So too, this thing to become hard. I'm not really sure. Rashi has to explain this one; he didn't feel the need to explain the other ones. I guess maybe the other ones are more pashut. Let's. Areivah is usually for bread. No, but areivah is for bread, bread basket. Bread basket? Yeah. Broken, how can you use this? Because you could use it still. The piece of it is still enough that you could put something that has to become hard. It has a besti. What is a besti? Bread. Which one? According to Rashi. Now, now the way to use the ... use ... Yeah, but what I'm saying, according to Rabbi Yehuda, according to Rabbi Yehuda, since I could still use it for something which is ... Right. My thinking, the first sheet holds you only use ... as long as it's used for something. ... I'm going to review this, right, and the whole Rashi explains Rabbi Yehuda. I'm Rabbi Yehuda ... machlokes ... Shabbos. This is to tell you. Machlokes is if all is broken on Erev Shabbos, meaning, me'ein melachah, me'ein melachtan, this whole machlokes is only ... What? I don't see the Gemara. Give me one. You'll soon see from the Gemara. Wait, wait a second. Says the Gemara, we don't—this whole shakla v'tarya, me'ein melachah, me'ein melachtan, mishonah, not mishonah, this is only ... Erev Shabbos. Mar savar, me'ein melachtan, ein, me'ein melachah אחרת לא, mid'Rabbi Yehuda. Mar savar, even me'ein melachah אחרת. But that's if it's broken on Erev Shabbos. This Erev Shabbos, broken on Shabbos itself, הרי הכל מותרים. Everybody holds. Meaning, even Rabbi Yehuda holds me'ein melachtan doesn't need me'ein melachtan. Why? Hoyil u'muchanim al gabei avihen mutar. Since it's muchan because of the original keli, the original keli was muchan to use, it's almost ... The Gemara, b'divrei hakol mutarim, hoyil u'muchanim al gabei avihen. Then the Gemara has kashes, m'shicha keilim, m'shivrei keilim, then there's ... Erev Shabbos. Okay, that's the sugya. What's pshat in the pshat? Why is this called mukhan agav avihem? What is that? This is ... Shabbos. This is mukhan agav avihem and this is not mukhan agav avihem. What's the pshat, mukhan agav avihem? What does that mean? What's the pshat, mukhan agav avihem? Maybe, say like the person's mind follow after the... And what is mind? What is his mind? Mukhan. He want to use this, you know, agav, what am I going to use with this? I mean, see, it broke. The mind is broke. Still thinking he may use it. This is the part of the whole. This is the Magen Avraham. Magen Avraham says what you just said. Magen Avraham says that a person who thinks about a kli, thinks to himself, you know, afilu im ze yishaber, even if it breaks, I'm going to use the broken piece. Here, this is ... siman taf kuf aleph. Adam yoshev u'mitzta'er, says the ... A person sits here and he looks forward that if, chas v'shalom, something happens to the kli, he'll still use the broken piece. ... Wait a second. Let's see first. If you look at the Chazon Ish...

When you want something great. And has nothing to do with the person, right? It's not because the person was making it. It has to do with the metzius. The metzius is, סמוך על גבי. What? L'maaseh, סמוך על גבי. L'maaseh. Forget about your mind. Forget about you. It's nothing about pshat. You say... Yeah, because since you were meichen the kli, okay, in that hachanah was this. So the food is... No, different two pieces. It's like the same thing. All right, eat up the steak. That's what we're going to... All the Chassidus says this svara, again. In Hilchos Shabbos you'll find a lashon, סמוך על גבי. The question is, you as a talmid chacham, as a lamdan, how do you understand סמוך על גבי? It is a Magen Avraham that's learned. A keli break, since the person is... That's what we're going to say, but they're not the same. How do you understand the halacha of eruv? Again, if the pshat is that a person hopes that there's some usage, right, then you're... So what's the pshat of Shabbos? What does Rashi say? Rashi says this svara, כלי המוכןין על גבי אביהן. When? See Rashi? כלי המוכןין על גבי אביהן. Yeah. What does Rashi want? What's bothering Rashi? Why does Rashi have to say... Lafukei what? ... Wallah, lafukei before. ... That's not called mukhan l'Adam. No, no, he's explaining the mukhanim. He's explaining the mukhanim. How is it mukhanim l'Adam only if it was attached together? Let me ask you a simple question. Something that's muktzah, was it muktzah when the Kiddush time can become muktzah? Again, again. If it has these stamps in it, yes. It broke after the fact, it can have no stamps, then it's muktzah. These cups, right? So the Gemara says, I want to know, what does Rashi want? ... The Rashi says, k'shekiddesh hayom. When does this hachanah taking place? K'shekiddesh hayom. So, pshat before. He just maybe meant this, that even if later there's a problem, who cares? L'maaseh it was mukhan already from the... That's not what you said, but okay, that's what you said. It was mukhan before. No. Maybe we're saying... Good, good. So what's the pshat? K'shekiddesh hayom, it becomes mukhan. So my question to you is like this: if it's k'shekiddesh hayom mukhan, right, what's wrong with the nekudah that it became not anymore mukhan? Let's say somebody has usage only for half of Shabbos. After that half of Shabbos, there's no more usage for it. There's no mukzah. You can't eat after that. You can have in your... Not to do with muktzah cups. Cups from the table. The Gemara says, how can you remove a cup from the table? You allowed to drink with the cup? It's not muksa. So how did it become muksa all day? It's not muksa. No, you might give a svara, ... That's a svara. ... How can something become muksa ...? No, no, that. You know why you're not allowed to move a cup over there. You know why you're not allowed to move a cup over there. Tell me. It's a kli. How did it become asur?