Kol Ishah in Halacha: Choirs, Recordings, Family Members, and the Question of Ervah

Transcript

of kol isha. When are you allowed to listen, when you're not allowed to listen to your wife? No. I have im lishmoa b'kol isha. תלוי במה היא אומרת. Depends what she says. So let's see a little bit like this. Gemara Brachos, daf chof daled amud aleph says that the kolah of an isha is moshech, draws. You hear the voice of a woman, it has an effect on a person. This is a Gemara in Brachos, daf chof daled amud aleph. Ariniat marayich, hashmini et kolech, ki kolech arev, u'mareich naveh. So just like the looks of a woman, so too is the voice. We see that the voice of a woman has the same problem as the looks of a woman. This is a Gemara in Brachos, daf chof daled amud aleph. V'lachen, therefore, it's asur for a woman to sing in front of men. It's asur for a woman to sing. Why? Because with this she's being moshech. She's drawing attention, the man's attention to her. The Shulchan Aruch is posek that hu hadin. The same applies the opposite. Thank you. That not only is the woman not allowed to sing in front of the man, but the same vein, the man is not allowed to listen. To the singing of the woman. Okay. Okay. So let's repeat, let's repeat l'tovat ha-tzibur. ... lo yodea, choshvim shetzrichim kavod. Okay. We're discussing issur kol ishah. When is it asur, when is it mutar? יש הרבה הרבה דיבור בזה, ויש גם הרבה קולות שמקילים במקום שיותר טוב, אם היו מחמירים. Now, I never posek chumrot. I don't do that. I tell you the halacha the way it is. This area, unfortunately, mekilim b'makom shebemet hayu tzrichim lachmir. There are many cases which people take advantage of. Yeah, yeah, yecholim lakel, she'ein lakel. I want to begin from the makor. The makor of this sugya, the makor of this halacha, is a Gemara Brachot, daf chaf daled amud aleph. The Gemara says, kol ishah ... is moshech, just like the mareh, the sight, like we learn, ki kolech orev, marech me'orer. The Gemara says that the sight of woman, we know, is me'orer. So too, the kol. Therefore, says the Gemara, that a woman has no right to sing in front of a man because she's moshech him. A woman is not allowed to do activities that cause the man to look at her and pay attention to her. Hu hadin lehafuch. So too, the opposite is also true, that an ish, a man, is not allowed to listen to the woman. It's not only a problem for the woman to cause the man, but it's also an issur for the man to do it. This is brought down in Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer, siman chaf aleph, se'if aleph: Issur kol ishah. A man is not allowed to listen to a woman. Now let's be choker chakirah, because this is the heart, this is the base, the basis of the sugya. Is the issur because it's moshech, it draws the person, or in itself is ervah? Just like the woman herself, if she's not dressed b'tzniut, is ervah. Not only the problem that it's moshech; in itself is ervah, which means even if you personally don't have enjoyment, a person is not allowed to read Kriyat Shema k'neged ervah, in front of an ervah, because in itself is ervah. So is ki...

Kolech arev, the same thing, or is it that it's moshech? The lashon of the Gemara is mashma like mareh. Mareh is not ervah. Ki kolech arev, marech na'eh. It doesn't say ervah. It just says that it's sweet, meaning it attracts. This is going to be the yesod of the sugya, what's allowed and what's not allowed. What are the nafka minas lahalacha? If it's al moshech, then we say issur kol isha, or because in itself is ervah. So there's an interesting Chatan Sofer that everybody speaks about. The Gemara tells us, trei קלי לא משתמעי. You have two voices, you can't actually hear the sound. For example, the Gemara speaks about trei קלי by tefila. Hillel, the Gemara says, since it's chaviv, since it's dear, so even trei קלי you'll be able to listen. That's a Gemara. So the Chatan Sofer wants to be mechadesh, when you have a man and a woman singing, so even though the woman is singing in a choir with men, since it's together with the men, you don't hear the woman. Therefore, it'd be mutar. So to have a choir of men and women together would be mutar. Now why would they discuss this? Why should they come into matir, the Chatan Sofer, the grandson of the Chatam Sofer? And the reason is because in Europe there was a big need to make Shabbaton. Men, women, young, the youth, l'zamer zmirot, לעשות שירים, to make plays, whatever it was needed, it keneged for the haskalah. It was very important to make the Shabbatons. So the question was, could you have mikhalot, what do you call that, makhelot, could you have them, men and women together? Says Chatam Sofer that yes, you're allowed. Why? Because it's not kol ish anymore; it's kol ishah me'urav, kol ishah. Now the problem with this sugya is, the Gemara says if it's arev, if it's sweet, if it's something which is chaviv, trei koli kemishtamei, you could hear two. So here, l'chura, it's arev. It's not stam bimbul, it's not just a mixture of different voices. It's a woman's voice, man's voice, and they're both dear. But he wants to be mechadesh that this is not kol ishah; I guess it's makhelah. It's a, what do you call it, not a band. What do you call it? A choir. It's a choir. It's not a voice. So I don't know if he really means the Gemara of trei koli literally, because there the Gemara says even if it's sweet, trei koli kemishtamei. He must mean more than that. He must mean that since it's a choir, since it's not kol ishah, it's choir with ishah. Choir with ishah is mutar, kemovan. Nobody's matir this today. Nobody's matir it. It's a big, it's a big kula that everybody discusses. Most disputed. Mos say, she'ein la'asot et zeh. Az nidberu sefer, az nidberaiti hayom, and Binyamin Zilber אומר, שאין לסמוך על זה, גם של חפץ סופר, גדולים שדור העבר, ואינן סומך על זה. Therefore, I agree with this, that if someone tells you, I went to a choir, he went to a show, and in the show they have women singing, not mutar. Now let me tell you, most of the time in these shows you'll have a woman singing without— you go to a Broadway show, you're going to have women singing there. ואין שום היתר בעולם, אין שום היתר בעולם, to go to a Broadway, because the whole heter of a chatan-sofer, they sing together, but they don't sing together. And we're soon going to see that the singing together and the scene might be also a problem. In other words, there might be two issues. There's an issue of the voice, and then there's an issue of seeing the woman sing, live concert, seeing the woman sing. We're going to discuss this a little bit later. But על כל פנים, יוצא להלכה פשוטה וברורה, that to go to a Broadway play is אסור לכל הדעות, מאה אחוז אסור.

There's no heter in the world. So even though your neighbors probably have tickets to go to Broadway, Broadway plays, it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that they're going against open, clear halachos. Sheletman depalig. You see, I'm telling you that even the chatan sofer was matir in a choir. He wasn't matir for a woman to get up and sing in front of men. There's no such thing. There's no such heter. And I'm trying to tell you that in these choirs, you have to know that it could be even worse. It's not just a choir and the women are standing in the back and they're singing and the problem is the voice. You see the women singing, so it's not so pashut that men singing together is going to change it. And like I said, especially the plays, they have the women singing alone. That's what's your question. Zel? Zel? Okay. Now. What? The issur is because of kol. This is not kol isha. But if you see her singing, we'll soon see that there's another problem in kol isha. Another problem in kol isha. You know, so let me explain to you now, instead of waiting for later. If the problem is al tzmoshech, then you have anyway. If the issue is moshech, if the issue is the kol itself is ervah, so then it would help you to say it's mixed in with the men, so it's not the kol isha. כאילו שזה מכוסה עם הגבר, it's covered with the men. But if it's al tzmoshech... Moshe, it's right there. Unless you say, me'acha shetiknu et zeh, b'ofen kacha, meaning, Moshech is only asur in such a way that you hear the voice of the woman and you're not hearing the voice of the woman. It's a chidush nifla, halacha. It's a chidush nifla. יש שרוצים אולי להסביר את זה בלומדס ככה. There are lomdim who are poskim that want to say, since l'maaseh it's not kol, even though it's moishen, but it's not the kol isha. That's why it's not so pashut. Sof sof, Moshech, you see the woman singing. What's it talk about? Even the chatan sofer, I don't believe, even the Chatam Sofer, I don't believe, said more than if you have a choir, you don't even see her. She's standing between the people, like in the old days with the rows, you know, and you can't even tell if it's a woman or a man. They used to wear the long robes and a hat. Everybody's wearing the same hat. You don't even know the difference between a man and a woman. Here, mamash, you can tell. You see the woman singing, dressed in a certain way, and the men are dressed a certain way. Gam b'zeh, ani lo ma'amin sheha-Chatam Sofer hitir. I don't believe that. Okay. There's another heter that's discussed in the context of kol isha. What happens if you're not listening for a long time? You want to listen for one minute, you know, just to hear some chidush of a song. You want to hear a new song, a new piece, a small thing. There are many that want to say—he wants to listen to the shiur, we should just talk. So there's a shayla, maybe if it's for short periods of time, for short periods of time, it could be it's mutar. Now what's this based on? There's an interesting Gemara. Actually, it's a Tosafos, Sukkah, daf zayin amud beis. What's the heter for a kohen to touch the hand of the woman and make tzniufa on the korban mincha? You're supposed to make—what, you put the hand under the ba'alim and you make the... what happens? It's a woman. Says Tosafos, since it's only for one minute, therefore there's no hirhurim in that short period of time. Not going to be, you know, too short of a period of time. So they want to say, oh, you see that short period of time, it's not enough to make hirhurim. I'll tell you the emes, I don't understand the raya. I really don't understand. Some poskim can bring it, big poskim can bring it. There, the kohen is in the Beis HaMikdash. His job is to make tnufa. You're listening to a song, which the whole metzius of the song is to be... Don't say that.

Yes, maybe the raya could be is from the kohen and the sotah. Maybe that could be a raya. By the case, by the sotah, pulls off the hair, and the Gemara in Pesachim says, Kol haro'eh sotah b'kilkulah, that the kohen who sees sotah b'kilkulah, ya'azor atzmo min hayayin. So you see clearly there is a little bit of a problem by seeing the sotah, even for one minute. It's a one-minute thing. If he sees her, מעורר איזה בעיות, it makes problems. But l'churah, from the raya that they bring from Menachos, from the fact that the kohen touches the woman for one minute, אינו דומה לנידון שלנו, because in our case, it's sweet thought, it's מעורר, it's מושך. The mincha is not a matzav. You know, a doctor, a doctor touches a woman. If you're a doctor, why? Because he's busy with his work. This is also, the kohen is busy with his work. I hate to compare. So even there, Tosafos says it's only for one minute. But it's not in the context where the moshech—if it's a moshech, even a half a second will cause a problem. I don't see the dimyon, comparison, between the Tosafos, Sukkah, mem-zayin, and the p'sak that they say that from here you see that for one minute you can have kilkul. I don't see. Now, another interesting point in the sugya of kohen isha is a teshuvah from the Sridei Eish. The Sridei Eish. The Sridei Eish was Rav Yankiv Yechiel Weinberg. He was a Gaon atzum, a Gaon atzum. He was the head of the German yeshiva, the yeshiva in Germany, big, the big seminary, rabbinical seminary. He was the Rosh Yeshiva, a Gaon atzum. Many of his teshuvot, they're machshiv in the Olam Hapsak like Rav Moshe's teshuvot. That's how. So he writes, when he came to Germany, they asked him a she'eilah that there's a lot of men and women singing together in Shabbatons. So he said, What? That's a she'eilah you come to ask? Are you kidding? Of course it's asur. What's the question? He writes on further analysis, ... the heter is actually Rav Shamshon Raphael Hirsch. Rav Shamshon Raphael Hirsch. Rav Shamshon... Rav Hirsch. Who permitted it? Who permitted it? It could be it was a hora'at sha'ah, like I said, because of the matzav. But who permitted it? Who permitted? Sheyeshvu b'shulchan shel Shabbat, yezamru, men and women together. V'zeh bison ha-chatanzof. That's where it comes from, the mixture. Since it's not one, it's mixture, so it's mutar. So I want to tell you an interesting story that I heard. I heard an unbelievable story. I heard... ... a Chassidus... a Chassidus... They make, yeah, it's that you don't even walk with your wife in the street. They don't let people to walk, men and women together, husband and wife. You know the famous joke. You saw a guy, he was walking in the street. They asked him, Sir, aref loishti? Harev asan mishtia. Lo ishti. This is the chashuv. They take it מאוד רציני, you know what I mean? The kids of inyanim eilu are מאוד רציניים. They're very serious. They're very serious inyanim eilu. Comes out an interesting story here. So could you imagine if a gerer chassid would see this Shabbos paper, ... it's a haflah felah, huh? So the Gerer Rebbe sent his, I don't think it was an alter, I think it was a Levine, his brother, to go spend Shabbos by Reb Shamshon Folger. He came to Reb Shamshon Folger's. He almost got a heart attack. Shabbos afternoon, you see him by the table, kulam matchilim, anashim v'anashim, kulam yachad. It sounds crazy. And he's the gerer from the Gerrer. Kitzur, he came back to tell the Gerer Rebbe, shebatchalah...

Why, why did you send me? You thought I could sit at such a Shabbos table? ... Shabbosukol verse said, Kol halaylah ad haboker, veyashav v'lamad Torah chaim al haTorah. Parsha, pirush Or HaChaim HaKadosh. I want to show, this is their shita, that you should know this is a אדם גדול מאוד. As ma hu amar, ... that ... from the kaflis, mazhir yirat Shamayim. You know, they were very into fancy dress, the German, the Rabbanim. ... went like a melech, because he had to show against that ... So he said, meazeh shelo, from his cufflinks, sparkles yirat Shamayim. Even though this is a levush acheret, but this was the— This was the story at ... They all sat together. They started singing zemiros. ... was matzui. I want to tell you that there's a good mekor for this. Who was the first man and lady to sing together in the story of Tanach? Bara. It says clearly, Vatashev ... they sang together. So the truth is, I don't know if it means song. I don't know if there was zemer. I'm not so sure. Shirah doesn't have to mean that there was a musical, you know. Instrument. It was words. Milim. Milim. Are you milim? Words. Who says it was salt? Where does it say, like it says? Ashkenazim have the famous ta'amim, lita'im omrim, Zmirot yomeiru v'tishbachot yashmi'u. Yomeiru? Yeah, kach mezamrim zmirot, it's al lita'im. We don't mezamrim; we אומרים it. Zmirot yomeiru. Chassidim mezamrim, but lita'im is zmirot yomeiru v'tishbachot yashmi'u. It's not כתוב that mezamrim. Zmirot yomeiru, omrim. אז הם רוצים... לכאורה היה צריך להיות, לפי הגמרא הזו היה צריך לצאת ככה, because it's שתי כילי, אז it's שתי כילי. אבל שם קשה כבר עוד להגיד שזה בכלל לא כל אישה; זה כל שתי נשים. אבל אם אנשים, אם גבר with a min, רוצים להתיר את זה ורוצים להראות ראיה מזה. So I saw the Eliyah Rabbah brings a raya, brings a very nice raya, brings a very nice ha'arah. He says, how could you bring a raya from Baruch and Avinayim? It's nevuah. It's al pi nevuah. So, הירא השם, היה איזה מצב... וגם היה, על פי נבואה. Now the truth is, הזמן, הזמן. האם שייך... I don't understand what the Eliyah Rabbah means. Such an issur? I don't know. I don't know. If a navi comes and tells you, if a navi comes and tells you, חל שבת, you חל שבת. Yeah, the Rosh for one time. So maybe that's all Eliyah Rabbah means, but... So, things that are ervah, a guy could come and say, I don't know, I don't know. Listen, this is what the Yerabba wants to say. I would say, interesting, I would say like this. What was the sibah for the issur? If it's b'etzem ervah, so then you need a hirhur ra, sure. But if the sibah is that it's moshech, what was the matzav? You were singing, l'vainish leilam. You were singing after such a nes. The matzav kezu, b'matzav neroman kazeh, shayach shekorat sho shelo. Harotzah is lo la'asot the issur. Harotzah zeh hamatzav. B'matzav kezu ein ba... כן, אומרים תהילים, תהילות ותשבחות. Oh, but at that time could be, Barak was singing together with Devorah because they were in a different matzav, they were meromam, they were... And it's interesting, he taka speaks the three days, that zmirot Shabbos is different. Ein hachanami to have men and ladies davening together.

Katzi can come and say, yeah, straight ... but ... Shageg lo ya'aseh ba. יש איסור שהאישה יעשה את זה, she should do it, וגם הגבר אסור לשמוע. לשמוע. Oh, see here, here what I want to say, could be the ha'irah shah is not to do the issur. I don't know if the Eliyah Rabbah means that the ha'irah shah is, like what he said with the Rambam. I don't think ... Rambam ... there's no issur. That's what the ha'irah shah is. That's what the Eliyah Rabbah could mean. There's no issur in such a case. And, like I see, ... wants to be mechadesh this yesod, that sins anyway. The olam is singing Shabbos songs. On Shabbos songs people are thinking about the Ribono Shel Olam. I don't know which dirt he lived in, but I'm ... in his dirt. But you know what's interesting? The ... was considered, from the more modern ... you know, the more the German, the yekke, the more maskil he was. You see that even him, he was thinking on zemiros Shabbos, ... zemiros Shabbos. Al kol panim, this could be the pshat in the Eliyah Rabbah. Okay, so, afilu ... she'itir etzev, v'yesh gedolei olam shematirim, kemo shenir'eh, d'vadai yosef basefer shelgam matir etzev. מדבר איש ואישה. We're soon going to get to it. A man and a lady who sing, a husband and wife, chas v'shalom, maybe there's an aniyah, there's a problem because she's an ervah. זמירת שבת maybe is one thing, but to go out and sing together, you know, that's a different thing. You know, he takes out the guitar and she takes out the cheislas, the, what do we call it, the rolling pin, and together they make music. זה מסתמא אסור. אם מגיע שזה מותר, יכול להיות שבאופן קדושה, במצב של קדושה, I could hear shecholim l'hatir ההיתר של שבת שופר, אבל בחוגים שלנו לא, men, women, פרט שם. אם זה רואה בשבת, הרב רואה בזה איזו צורך, he sees that it's necessary, so you can say, up, במקום רואה שעה, וזה מצב של קדושה, מצב של עלייה, אין איסורים, ולכן מותר. רב זילבר, in that teshuva that I mentioned to you before, Rebinyamin Zilber, once said lehafuch, זמירות would be worse than regular, because ההיתר של החתן סופר זה דרי קאי. אבל במקום שיש זמירות, זמירות יש פסוקים בזה. When you're saying Torah, יש בעיה חוץ ממה שזה מושך, בעצם ערווה. You're not allowed to say in front of an ervah. So if you learn that the Moshech is not big because it's meiris Shabbos. Yeah, but if it's b'etzem erva, on the contrary, meiris Shabbos makes it worse, because barah shem kedusha. Very nice. I'm very impressed with the p'sak. It's a beautiful p'sak. The opposite, because if it's Moshech, so they want to be matir because it's meiris, because it's something which is maleh v'lo... zman shel giruyin. Omer Rebbi Yoman, zeh b'pumfaket, lehafuch. Biglal shezeh meiris, וזה דבר שבקדושה, אז יש לך את הבעיה אפילו שזה לא מושך. למה? Like we spoke, is the problem Moshech? Is the problem Moshech, or is the problem b'etzem, is the ervah? Asur l'hagin against it, neged ervah. So this is, like I said, according to many they're matir it, but according to many, asur, tazmirot ha'eilu is a problem. Stay away from it. Okay. Now let's discuss the heter. What is the heter? Where does the heter come from? Sefarim known, ... back to be more meikil in this inyan.

Once a sefardi speak to them, he sings really. They weren't so makpid on this. Why? The Steichem brings from a sefer called Divrei Cheifetz, a big sefer that should be doylem, that to put a child to sleep, you're allowed to sing a song even though men are going to hear it. You hear? The Steichem, the sefardi, and he's quoting Divrei Cheifetz, ... Kitzer, so hu mevi misefer Divrei Cheifetz, shemutar lashir liladim, and that's what they all quote. That became the makor for the ... You see, bimkom sheze lo biglal arayos, you're not singing for Moshe; you're singing for putting a kid to sleep so that it's mutar. V'hu hadin al havayah. For example, you have the ... the women who get up and they cry, right? Crying, right? And they sing. Chazan, right? It's a whole chazanas over there. Mutar. Why? Because since it's in the matzav ... Yeah, but since it's for the matzav of not being Moshe, but it's for the matzav of making people cry, miachshav al zeh. Okay. This is the makor for the heter. Now, there's also another nafka mina lahalacha, depending if it's Moshe or it's b'etzem ervah, and that is: what happens if it's on the radio? Not live, not live. So we could say like this: if the yesod habayis is ervah, maybe it's not ervah. For example, for example, the classic case the poskim bring is very, very nice. שערות אישה is ervah. The makom shezeh נִתְלָשׁ מאישה, it's not connected to the woman, it's not ervah. So you see that even something which is etzem ervah, when it's not beguf ha'isha, it's not ervah anymore. V'hadin radio. Since it's not connected to a woman, since it's not connected to a woman, the problem is, I explained to you that it's all ... Moshe, deny that there's an inyan of ... in issur kol ishah, and if that's true, then all this doesn't make a difference, because the ideal of the song is to be Moshe. That's the whole idea of the song. The whole idea of the song is when a woman sings it, it's a woman's voice, to be pretty, you hear? Comes out a ... chiddush, you hear what I'm telling you? A ... chiddush. People think, Oh, it's not live. I explain this to you because from the Gemara is mashma the ... Moshe. And I'll tell you, I showed you from the Gemara. The Gemara never spoke that it's ervah. What the Gemara said is, Moshe, kol echad ervah u'marehchnaved. So the mekor of it is Moshe. It's interesting, though. I was thinking, what would be if a person, a man, has a woman's voice? You hear? Voice, has a woman's voice. You don't know, it sounds mamash like a woman to you. So it could be, could be. Right? Good shayla. I never really talked about this before. I had this question because you might... You don't know. You're not sure if it's a boy or a woman. For example, there's certain people that had been nebach because of Nazis, the hormones. Mamash ladies' voices. So there we could come and say, but if you, you know, when you know the person, so then it stops right away. But if you don't know the person, if the voice sounds, if a boy, a young boy sounds like a woman, or whatever the reason, I don't know, it's a good shayla. It's something that you have to really ask a posek. Maybe, maybe, or maybe that's not, or maybe it has to come from a woman, otherwise there's no issue. That's not... Or, oid dilma kacha tzurasa takanah. Not so sure. So I want to tell you a little bit the mekor, the basis of this. There's a Gemara about Rachav. Kol ha'omer Rachav miyad nik... Whoever said Rach, Rach...

Because Yeshua's wife, she was so pretty that... So Tosafos says that we see from over here that even if you don't see her, that it's shayach hirhurim by the word, by the name of a woman without even seeing her, says Tosafos. The Gemara in Sotah says clearly that if you don't have a person attached to the koil, it doesn't maisha. So how could it be that kol ha'omer rachav, miyad nikar? You don't know who it is. Says Tosafos, it's talking about where you saw her, meaning you knew her from before. That's the Tosafos, the Gittin tes-vav amud aleph, where you know before and you hear the voice. Says Reb Avadiyah, a psak which is emes la'amito, emes la'amito. Perfect. If, let's say, there's a picture accompanying the voice—don't come and tell me radio. You have radio, there's no picture, but television, right? So it's not live, right? But you see the picture. So however you turn the Rubik's Cube, you got a problem, right? You can't say it's not maisha, but it is maisha because you see clearly the picture. What happens if I don't see the picture, but I know who's singing, I know of her, I know—that's the case of Rachav. So let's say you know who's singing and you once saw a picture of her, then you'd be not allowed. But if not saw according to him, you're allowed. That's where the heter... I don't agree with it, but I'm telling you that you see that that's the sugya. You see that he learned up the sugya properly. Where that's the case of bracha. That's the raya from poskim. Avada, avada, you know, the Rabbi Yonah, the Rabaz, all the poskim, they write in the teshuvos that this is very shvach eterin, and the pshat is that it can't be that it's moshich, and it's talking about a case where it's not moshich, because if it's moshich, it's anyway asur, right? It's anyway asur, so you're not moshich. Because the case of bracha—because the case of bracha is the name. What do you want? A name is nothing. But then before also, a voice, a voice of woman in itself is a reaction. How can you compare that to singing? So this, l'choira, is the discussion of the radio, yes mutar, okay. Now what happens? The following shaylah. If you know Hilchos Shabbos and the controversies around tape recorders, radio, microphone, I don't know if you're acquainted with it, but if you are, you would know that there's an issue by a microphone: is it the original voice of the person, or it's a new voice, meaning is it boneh? You created a new voice. Radio, many poskim want to say, is the original voice, and it's somehow through the waves, given off. By a tape recorder, you certainly can't say that. Some want to be mechalek that a radio will be asur, and a tape recorder maybe will be mutar. Interesting chiddush. This already is the modern-day issues of the shaylah. What? Radio is not live to begin with. You have to understand, there is the voice. Now the question: the original voice is transmitted through electrical currents. You're talking about the live voice? No, live. But it's the voice of the person that's transmitted in electricity. Whatever the— let me tell you, I won't be able to sit here today and explain to you exactly how a radio works. I don't have the time for that, nor do I have all the information. I mean, I would have to sit here— I just want to understand. Right. Regular radio, like microphone, is the question: is it the original voice or it's completely new? It's just currents. Tape is definitely not the original voice. It's not. How can this be the original voice?

There's no way for them to ... You have to explain about a radio. What? Also, then you're doing, so you should explain them. The radio in itself is ... give it into the ... transmit. Magnetics. Vocal cords. He does know. You know, this is the way to explain to them. Once you mix it now with another ... and having ... that pushes away the ... On the other side, you have exactly ... the frequency of voice, and you mix it with a special frequency. On the other side, the filter is going to be exactly the opposite. It's going to filter the high frequency, and it's going to give you as close as possible the audio. So this is ... I'm not very ... But tape recorder is not the same. The same. That I don't know. This is what the ... would say. Tell me something. On a line, on a telephone, on a line, ... you say amen? What about on a tape recorder, you say amen? Rabbi says no. So that's the difference. I'm showing you that the ... can hold like that. I don't know. I hear, you'll say it's not true. I don't know. Just like you. You're saying it's the same thing. I'm not talking about Moshe. The question is, you're right. Listen, ... Moshe, and she'ein ... and she'ein ... maybe, and she'ein ... I was thinking about that. I was thinking about the active. You should know. You should know. I was thinking about it all day today, and I wasn't sure because I wasn't sure if he means the hearing. You see, I kept on telling you, I don't know if he means ... You know, let me explain to you. When I told you over, I'm not sure he means ... I was thinking this, because I don't know if he means what you hear. He means that now it's a mixture of two קולות. Whatever it is you hear, you're not hearing קול; you're hearing choir. You're right. But the point is, it's choir. L'maaseh, there's something called a choir. Are you maskim there's something called a choir with two voices together? It's a mixture. It's a mixture of voices. You know what? If you have the spectrum of... she makes this and this and email this in another way. Said as an example, it's an earbud. I know, but each sound... Good, but it's not the sound except... I hear, but it's not. It's an earbud. The chiddush is, earbud kol ish is a... That's why I told you, I knew this. I knew this because it bothered me this question. You'll always hear the woman more than the man. And that's why I explained the Chatan Sofer, the way I did, that it's an earbud. By the way, I'm very proud. I'm very impressed with your... Okay, now listen carefully. I just have a shayla which I'm not sure about. You know, ... What happens if the voice is digitally made, with mechanicals, never from a real person, but it's a woman's voice, the tablet? It's a lady. What happens there? Could I...? ... I don't know. It's not so pashut. I'm telling you, this is one she'eilah...

Radio. The poskim say tape is different than radio, so maybe radio, asur; tape mutar. And then on top of that, what happens if it's a metallic sound? I don't know, I'm not sure. I have this down. Okay. Now let me tell you an interesting nafka mina lahalacha. On a tape, kol ishto, kol ishto. Are you allowed to read Kriyas Shema opposite that? Why am I saying? Moshech, not a problem. You already don't have the problem. Erva was singing before. Oh, but if you say it's ervah b'etzem, and then becomes the she'eilah now: is this called ervah b'etzem? So it would come out that you're not allowed to read Kriyas Shema neged opposite tape. Huh? It's your wife. Huh? It's your wife. Let me talk. You have to let me talk, because everything will be clear. You just got to give me time to talk. Give me a chance to get there. So it becomes an interesting nafka mina. If you learn tape is b'etzem ervah, which means it's tofeses the pack of the kol, then it would be asur. But if it's not, just it's alts moshech, so there would be no issur to read opposite it. But the problem is for the stranger, but if it's your wife, there'll be mutar. That becomes the technical problem of a tape recorder. If we say that it's tofes etzem hakol, as the ervah b'etzem, l'fi hade'ot, she's the etzem ervah, ve'asur likro Kriyas Shema. However, it's exactly בלי מושך if the ishto. Huh? Because your wife's straight, I'm saying. So you won't make the Kriyas Shema, though. No, it's an ervah, but if it's an ervah, then it's asur. You're not allowed to read. When your wife is singing or whatever it is, you won't be allowed to read Kriyas Shema then, because by pay maybe it's not etzem hakol, but it's moshech. Moshech is not comfortable. I'm trying to explain, you have to know: is it ervah or is it moshech? You have to know where the problem is. Again, obviously Rav Ovadia Yosef is leaning towards it's etzem ervah, and therefore where the etzem ervah could be broken away — it's not light, it's not this, it's this, it's that, you don't know where, you don't this, I don't... No distinction on that, on this. Yeah? But, Rabbi, we're talking about ervah — the wife is niddah right now, or... Not yet. Even if she's not. Even if she's not. Wife's not dressed, she can't read Kriyas Shema, even if she's not a niddah. So it's kol she... Okay, now, what happens if the wife is a niddah? That's the question everybody's going to ask you. So there's more ... over there. ... Reb Zalman, or Reb Shlomo Zalman, ... matir it. ... there's guests there, and he says, ... you have to listen. ... Im ha'isha nida. ... Why? It's Moshe, right? How? Reb Shlomo Zalman makes it sound like it's her house, she has the rights, just like you. Yeah, but you can stop her from singing in her house. You go out of the room. Ah, with her voice. That's so Moshe. The guy comes and says, whenever I hear my wife's voice, automatically, I don't know, automatically. That's right. It's not Moshe, ... Okay. A sister. Can a sister sing in front of a brother? So there's a very famous psak from the Chazon Ish that it's asur.

The Gemara is barur. It's clear in the Gemara שאין עריות בין אחיות. Barur brings that many of the Tanaim kissed their sisters. Very big chiddush. Barur, it brought down all the sefarim, the Chazon Ish was aser. But I saw brought down a sefer, Shem Reb Moshe, that he asked Reb Moshe, and Reb Moshe said, like the din of the Gemara, sisters are allowed to sing. So if your sister wants to sing, stam, you can't tell her to be quiet. Like I said, so you leave the room. You don't want her to sing, so get out. You leave. Let me tell you something. You probably could, but if you do, you're not. There's something called normal. Normal people don't. A normal person's not going to kiss his sister, unless she's a baby, unless she's under... There's no—let me tell you, it's mutar. Ashkenazim, it's mutar. You're allowed to kiss your sister. It's not normal to kiss your sister. Normal people... How old is she? How old is she? What do you call a kiss? Okay, so listen. What do you call a kiss? I don't know. To give a French kiss. Yeah, okay, well you don't touch her, and if you touch her, I can't listen. Call. Yeah. Yeah, they killed you, מסתמא for it. I mean, what do you do? I mean, my system understands. Let me ask you a question. Can I ask you a question? You want to come and make a deal? She doesn't like you. She loves you the same thing if you do or you don't, and you love her the same. What is that? What is it? How's that supposed to...? Again, you're telling me a special case, ... okay. You'll talk to me after the shiur, you know, these... So what was the... Tanaim, they were allowed to do that, like kissing? Tanaim were allowed to do it? Different cheshbon. So different cheshbon. Now he kissed Rochel like you kiss the Sefer Torah. Yaakov kissed Rochel like you kissing a Sefer Torah. It's not like you guys. Okay, now, a mother and a daughter מוטר to listen to the way they sing. It's mutar. Again, if you sit there b'kvius and listen to them sing, it's also not mutar. Your mother and your daughter. Your mother, your daughter. Your mother and your daughter. So there's no arayos, there's no yichud. Again, so at the Shabbos table, okay, they're singing, but if they're sitting and listening to the way they're singing, it's also Mishnah Berurah, and there's certain things that you have to do, it's normal, you know, but it's mutar. Okay, let's move on. Now, how old, how old does the girl have to be that there should be a problem of kiddushin? The poskim say 11 years old, from 11 and on. Now, I think, l'chorah, I don't have a source in it. Again, if it's out ervah b'etzem, so you can say this is not a lev. But if it's out moyshich and it is moyshich, so then it's גם earlier. Eleven is, I guess, what the poskim say. That's when it is eleven. So, yichud of the chadash... So, yichud might be a little bit earlier. Okay. What should you be careful from? If you're running a Beis Yaakov, you have to be very proper. The girls like to sing, and they like to, you know, people in the street. So can you tell the people, Listen, don't walk here, it's a Beis Yaakov? No. You tell the girls not to sing. That's what it says, kol isha. The svara is that because they're mechuyav in halachos tznius, not to sing to the people, and the people have the right to walk in the street, so you have no right to sing in a way that will cause people... It's again the lifnei iver lo sitein michshol. You know, a classic case of this, where girls go on a tiyul, they go on the bus, you know, camps, and, Ah! No, but the bus driver, you're not allowed. It's mamash a michshol. Now what happens if he's a goy? What happens if the bus driver is a goy? So if you're...

And there is a goy there, so it's mutar, because the goy doesn't have problem of kolisha. The goy doesn't have issur of kolisha. But had you to go and sing to the goy is also asur. So I want to be maskim, why is that? Look at all the ... We all bring it down. ... Why? Because kolisha is twofold. The man is not listening, then the woman is not allowed to give. ... It's not ... to make your kol to the man. So if you're doing it lehadgif for him, that's where the ... If you're doing it for yourself and ... he's listening, then it should be mutar. Say, in case you're on a bus and you're singing for yourself, if in a ... or even not in front of a ... not allowed to do it. If he's a goy, if you're not bedavka singing to him, like I just gave you a case on the ... they're singing to the ... then it's mutar, because there's no ... So if you're singing to him, you're not allowed. It's ... to sing for a man. It's not ... That's the way I understood that halacha. It's ... If you're singing for themselves and he's there, if he's a ... he's a goy, ein lo issur. Okay, the ... will stop here.