Shabbos 74b: Bishul of Wood, Softening and Hardening, and the Definition of Cooking

Transcript

That's an unbelievable. Heglich tal. He says, when I was mafrid it, and I asked you this question when we started, remember? B'shaas hafrada, it still mafrid. It's logical. The truth is, the kash is not to be kash. You know why? Who says kash is when I was mafrid? Taking into... when I take it, right? He says taking into... Ah. He says it's mashma, yeah? Ah. So when I took it off, what happened? Kasher. Good, right? Why? You're gonna answer that one. That the moment I put my hand on it, even though it was still attached, says Iglei Milsa that it's not that זמן. He says because of later. He says, as long as it takes a minute, it doesn't happen right away. When you're holding it, it must be because you took it from borer, not from eating it. No, no, no, slow, slow, slow. You're flying, I don't know where you're flying. First, what does it say? First see what it says. Starting the se'if, because when I took it, it becomes pasul. Says Iglei Milsa, when did it become pasul? After. Shas when it's in my hand. That's kli. So nobody's מקשה, right? Huh? That's kli. My friend becomes pasul. Question is why. That's the big problem. If it's true, if it's true that it's not right away, so why does it become pasul? I took out a piece of... Why was it in my hand it turns into pasul? So I have ... I took it as psoles. ... I see, but then the psoles before reaches my mouth, psoles. Therefore it's called psoles bichachar. You ready? You with me? ... He says, this is what ... means it becomes later, and so later it's already cooked. ... Later makes it up. Later it's already not; it's already separate. When you separate it, it was mutar. Separate it, finished. Now it's ... So the minute later, what's the problem? ... What exactly, what exactly is the issur borer? You have to know this. Remember we spoke about it all the time. Is the issur borer the etzem ma'aseh, the ma'aseh, or what it is is it's the totza'ah, that the psoles left the ochel. Meaning, is it the ma'aseh of taking psoles from ochel? Okay. ... Even though it was ochel, it's called ... because in the ma'aseh, in the totza'ah ... I did a ma'aseh of taking psoles from ochel. Because why? Because the totza'ah is going to be ... If I take psoles ... which was ... from the ochel, I was ... ma'aseh. We're looking at ma'aseh. That's the question. If you look at the ma'aseh, then there's no problem. No problem. Ma'aseh was not there. ... It's not ... Okay, it's the ma'aseh, taking the ochel. Look at this Tosafos. What was the Tosafos? This psoles is not attached to the zochlin. ... Look at the Tosafos. Tosafos was what? That she took away psoles from. Okay, now, I need you to do me a big favor. So look up the Rambam sheetah, how the Rambam learns haborer ... Let's see. Read the Rambam. The Rambam is a whole new pshat on this. ... By the way, that's how the Mishnah Berurah learns, like the Rambam. Mishnah Berurah learns like the Rambam, the case of borer. Ready? Take out the Mishnah Berurah. Come. Yeah. ... Ah, haborer, listen carefully.

מהמסקת, אותה כי שישלקו אותה עם ההן. This style is needed to make the food. It's good. You know what we look at? We look at the mamtik instead of the food. For example, let's say chrein. Let's say that's horseradish. Cannot be eaten, you hear, without charoses. Which is the ochel and which is the psoles? Charoses is the ochel, and the Rambam says the ... comes the psoles. Why? Because you can't eat it the way it is. You can only eat it with the ... He says that's ... So compare it to ... Say it again, say it again. One more time. ... מתוך ... שלהם חייב, מפני שהפסולת שלהם ממתקת אותה. ... ונמצא ... כי בורר ... למה? ... That halacha, Mishnah Berurah brings this out. Yes, read it. Mishnah Berurah, you said: ... ומברר זה החתיכות מר. ... פסולת אינו מר כל כך. ... אם כן חשיב ... מתוך אוכל. Let's. ... together. ... One difference: Yaffo's gonna be a lot. We're gonna be a lot, right? ... Why take? ... Why are you doing? ... Let me ask you the opposite. You would be ... from the ... What would happen? You can't eat it anyway, so what happens? ... What are you doing? Why are you being ...? Let me ask you the opposite. Please. Why? Please, please. Jumpa gemara end. ... This is the point to Rashi. Rashi at least has that you'll eat one. Yeah, but you're not eating. You're not eating any of it. Really? According to Rashi, it's the same problem. Why are you ... in the middle of the food? Don't stop. According to Rashi, at least the gerum you can eat. ... I can't eat the gerum. Why don't you want? You never said. ... five minutes. ... Gerum you can eat, you can't eat. I had told you that you could eat it, but it still has a bit of ... because they're gerum. You would think ... I would say that ... It has a bit of ... anyway. You didn't understand the whole, the whole, the whole. I'm telling you, I'm sitting here for hours waiting for you. You have no idea how silly you look now. In Rashi, the gerum is ... what? In Rashi, the gerum is edible. In Rashi, the gerum is edible. So why do you make me crazy? In Rashi, it makes sense. The gerum is edible. If I took the gerum, it's mutar.

What do you want? What are you saying? ... I can attack. What? What? Because ... I can't do it. I can't do it. All I'm telling you is, I understand if I can eat the gruel, at least I have an oichel mitoch pesoles. And the chiddush is that at least, if I would do it the opposite, it'd be mutar. How could this be mutar? Let's say I did the opposite over here. What's mutar about it? Huh? It would be mutar, right? Why? Where is the oichel? Where is the la'alter? Where is anything here? Again, but I'm not eating it. Where is the la'alter? Whatever you're gonna say is, zicher not la'alter. What's the case? What's the case? HaKafarah from here the poskim say we have a yesod. I mean, you know, it's a simple question. HaKafarah, the poskim say from here we have a big yesod. What do we see from here? That something sweet and something else ... ... You need both. Obviously. But this עולה בזה, this עולה בזה. You're not gonna eat the ... You're not ... That's what I asked you. So that's what I asked you. Exactly what I asked you. I don't see the ... Okay, there's one more pshat, rabosai, one more pshat, and that's the pshat of the Iglei Tal himself. The Iglei Tal says, I have a pshat. He thinks it's the emes pshat. Take out the Iglei Tal and start to read, and then I'm going to have to... שאר כליי מִצְרָף, ... קשה ... פירש ... גמרא: הויו דילו שאר כליי מִצְרָף, ... בתוך אוכל דמי, הינו, the ... of the ochel מתוך פסולת, מאכל ... רק ... הוא רק ... לאוכל. ... צריך לאוכלו. ... אבל תבין, דילו שאר כליי מִצְרָף, אפילו לא היה רוצה לאוכלן עכשיו, רק להוציאן אחר כך, היה בוררן עכשיו, והיינו בוררו מִצְרָף. ... והאכילה שני דברים, ... בתוך אוכל דמי. וכמו בכל ברירת פסולת מאוכל, שהברירה בפסולת והאכילה באוכל, ... הברירה והאכילה, חייב; ... כן נראה לי. Who cares that that's psilus? You know, we're knocking our head... ... We're knocking our head against the wall for two hours, ... you know what he says? Who cares? Even ochel מתוך פסולת, if it's not l'tzorech... You can't eat it now. What do you need psak for? Who cares? It's not psak. It's oichel, and it's delicious, and it's gevaldig, and it's great, and, oh, delicious. Not the promise. L'maaseh, I can't eat it now. Can I eat it now? Because it's not ready yet. It's raw. So once it's not allowed, it's asur. Why are you calling it ...? Why are you calling it ...? Why are you saying ...? It has halacha. That's not ... That's not kashya I asked with you, because you're not making that deal. Halacha, though, he's right. For two hours we're sitting there knocking our heads ... It's completely irrelevant. You know what it is? We have the Rambam, the ... argues. Very nicely, he has no ... to back him. He says himself, I have no ... to back me. That's not true, though. So what's the teretz? If I give a hundred dollars, anybody can be ... ... The ... says ...

If he's ... bitter, you hear? All the ... but just from bitter to himself. ... ... ... My answer is that I would have seen ... My answer is that I would have seen ... You're not eating. ... What's the story? What's the sugya? Even let this—he's asking that let that be the reason why terumos is asur. You know why it's asur? You're not eating, and I'm asking the other way. Let's say you were boirer not the terumos b'toich or whatever, but rather you were boirer the whatever b'toich ha-terumos. You're not eating that either. It's not ... What's not ... should be asur. Huh? I'm telling you, the terumos is edible and not edible. It's not edible, then it's boirer anyway. Even ... boirer. That's question number one. And I'm asking the opposite. If, mashma, if I would be boirer the gruim over—let's take the other one, would be mutar. Huh? ... My ... you're being boirer l'fnos. Even if you're oichel mitoch psoles, it's not ... you're not eating it. Why not? Because you eat it, it's raw. So why do you have to come make ...? It's psoles. Forget it. It's not ... Torah. So beautiful, so beautiful, you have no idea. Why with the ... for two hours? Explain to me that ... For us, ... Meaning, once you're not going to eat it, you don't have to come and say ... even if ... Why? ... What do you need it for? Let's just say ... Anyways, what are you talking? Don't believe ... I said the rule says it's not ... so much. Maybe ... No, no, no, don't pay. I'm just reading. ... We did this, no? ... We did this, no? ... We did this, no? ... We learned this, right? We did it with the first thing we did, no? Says the Gemara: ... and it took the word ... Why? ... was the ... Why did we say ...? We learned this: ... The ... is going ... it's more common than making ... Therefore, he used the lashon ... I feel better. My throat's getting better. Next week is going to be a good week, I'm telling you. No, no, I'm telling you. ... אמר רב אחא בר אבא: האי מאן ... This is the first sugya on ... You would say ... Guess what? ... is not here. It's not here. It's the beginning of Shabbat. Here you're going to find something completely different. האי מאן ... This person ... Sichta latuna. He took a piece of wood and he put it into fire. Atuna is a fire, says Rashi. Shada sichta, shehishlich yated. A yated is a spike. Or they have it, a yated, a spike. Spit. The thing he makes shishkebab. Lach, wet, when it's wet. Letanur cham l'yabsho, in order it should dry, sheyiskasheh and become hard. That's called what, says the Gemara: ha'iman d'shada sichta latuna, chayav, mishum mevashel. Oh, what's mevashel? There's machlokes Rishonim what is being mevashel. Yes omrim, shehu mevashel ha'mayim shebisocho, meileh mitraken. Water, sweat. So wet people, water. So that's bishul on what? Bishul on the water. That's the shita of the Yereim and other Rishonim. Baruch Hashem, don't run away. We'll learn for one minute. Can't put that. Now here, other Rishonim learn, etzem ha'etz bishalti. Etzem ha'etz bishalti. למה?

Bishul what? Tzarich lihyot l'ochel. Bishul yachol lihyot litaken. Yesod habishul ze lo laachilah; bishul is litaken. I'll prove it to you. What was bishul in the Mikdash? No. Reading. Dying. What's the bishul of the Mishkan? Seven. Needs to make the dye. Say the Rishonim. Seven. This is dye, right? It's not for the purpose of what, Rabosai, for the purpose of... Some Rishonim learn that what's the bishul? Tikun. Kol masheni mevashel litaken haochel, and Rabosai, mitzvah next week, you don't even know how to work with this. That yesod of bishul is what? You feel it already? We're going to soon see that, Rabosai. There's a very famous Mishnah Berurah. Wet, unusable, and now it's hard, strong, it's usable. It can become a lot better. The very famous shitas haRambam we're going to speak about next week. No food here. No food. The only thing is you cook a piece of wood. No shishka about it. Regular piece of wood, you put it in. Machlokes. Correct. Machlokes in the Rishonim. Maani mevashel, oshani mevashel, the etz. Roshanim levatel what? I didn't mean to do that, I really didn't. Roshanim levatel what? Et hamayim, ech bishul ba'aretz. Bishul doesn't have to mean food, tikun. There's a very famous Rambam: if I take lead and I put it into fire, also, it's called bishul, shitas the Rambam. Metal. It becomes bishul. What's the raya? Like I just told you, bishul samanim is not ... It's not ... but tikun hadavar already is bishul. The Mishnah Berurah writes, a very famous Mishnah Berurah, you listening? The yesod is what? Tikun. Bishlama midaber ra, davar ... l'mashel is there, shayach what? Tikun. Aval mimayim karim l'mayim chamim, eizeh tikun asiti? L'mayim bifnei zeh? L'mayim achrei zeh? Shum davar, nitkan? Shum davar lo nistanta. Famous Biur Halacha says, ... became unedible before; is it edible now? Anybody? It doesn't matter. Tikun. Eizeh tikun yesh? ... Chofetz Chaim, what do you say? ... not from America. Water, hot water. When we say tikun, it doesn't matter. Bishul sheini, that's not here. It ain't here. You know what part of bishul is here? ... What if you sort of bishul? That's why the Gemara brings ... they put wood into fire. Remember the machlokes Rishonim? Mah bishul, hamayim. Right. Itz Hashem, ביום ראשון, strong and hard shiur, okay? Hayit rayit, sheyitkasheh. In order it should become hard, okay? Liyabsho, titrayit, sheyitkasheh, it should become hard. So now the emes is Rashi is mosif two words. What are the two words that Rashi is mosif? Liyabsho, sheyitkasheh. To dry it, it should become hard. What would be so wrong if Rashi used one of the two? ... Liyabsho. ... There has to be ... This is the first diyuk I want to make in Rashi, and anybody who learns should make it for you. So chulu, there are two things that Rashi says. The first thing Rashi says is what? Liyabsho. Drying. Dry. Wet, now it's dry. Another thing is, now that it's dry, you know what happens when it dries? It becomes hard. Why does Rashi need the two things? Diyuk number one. What's wrong if Rashi would just say...

Le'apshol, the drying. All one melachos, called the melachah bishul. In order to be over, Rashi says what? Le'apshol, sheyitkasheh. The first diyuk, the first thing you have to make a diyuk in, besides the diyuk in the peshatah in Rashi, which Rashi explains tanur cham because otherwise, why is it asur? Stam tanur is mutar. The answer is that's micham. Okay, good. But the chidush of Rashi is, Rashi adds the reason why you're chayav. And the reason is what? Ei le'apshol, and B, what is because you're going to make it hard. We'll soon see, we'll soon see. Let's see the next line in Rashi. Says Rashi again on the next piece of Gemara. So the Gemara says, Chayav mishum mevashel, peshita. So the Gemara is pashut. Mahu deteima, I would say, lishrurei mana ka mechaven. What is lishrurei mana? Rashi says, lechazek, ve'ein kan bishul. My whole kavanah is what? To make it hard. We'll soon see, we'll soon see. My whole kavanah is what? Oh, lechazek ve'ein kan bishul. Says the Gemara, no. Why? Kamashmalan de'mirpa rafi. First it becomes soft, harder, calming. No. Yeah, the spice, the spice becomes softer, and then the water goes out, and then what happens is it becomes hard. So what does the Gemara say? The Gemara says, I would think your kavanah is just to make it what? Chazak. To make what? No. Why not? Because it's not bishul. Where's the bishul? Maybe make it a patish, maybe boneh. Oh, when I hold it together, like that? Yeah. Oh, when I hold it, when I hold it, when I hold it. I first want to translate what it says, then we'll ask why. First let's see what it says. It was like, the Gemara seems to say that if my kavanah is what, l'chazek, then what would be? It would be mutar, meaning it wouldn't be asur for bishul, not bishul. Now I just want one question: is l'chazek and l'kasher the same word? No. L'chazek means the same thing, right? Yeah. But I don't know why Rashi doesn't say the same word. L'chazek cannot mean lehafshot. The strengthening is shetkasheh means it should become hard. Now I hold, I hold that if you want to look at the words for themselves, they're really different. The difference in Rashi, what's the difference? ... But just when you're making it, you're making it tighter. But don't say levels, because then you're playing. Levels, you should know bichlal. Whenever you say levels in general, levels is, yeah, okay, maybe more or less, like now you're already going into... You say it's bichlal right now, not even... Or maybe when you're making it, it's kasheh. But l'chazek is you're just tightening it. What's kasheh? What is the difference between if I came and I tell you the word yitkasheh and l'chazek? I'll tell you what comes to my mind. Okay, with tomato, one time Rashi uses the word yiskasher, one time the word l'chazek, and I'll tell you what I think the pshat is. It's the verb of it. L'chazek is the noun. Yiskasher means that's what happens, and the result is l'chazek, it becomes stronger. Even from the dikduk is proper. I know. Yiskasher means it becomes, it becomes something, meaning it's happening, and now you know what happens? It's chazak now. This is the result. This is the result of the verb, and that's why I... Liskasher means to become hard, which means it's a verb, it's becoming hard. Now that it became hard, you know what it is now? Now it's a strong piece of wood. Chazek is the... it's the... It never says it's chazek. It says the reason why I'm doing is l'chazek. It means to have the toughza that is strong now. Sheyiskasher is the verb of it. You're maskim? No, it's dikduk. No, it's dikduk. That's why I... Huh? You know why he likes this so much? When you're baal koreh, dikduk is very important, and you see this dikduk changes the whole thing. The dikduk changes the whole translation.

Shechitah means that's what's the kavana. So that's the maaseh that's happening. You know, you want to know what l'maaseh is the svara now? Now, please look, it's the wrong thing. You think l'chazek. You think it's happening, chazak. L'chazek, you know, to make it, to make something now, to make it chazak, which is the result. No, so you're making, it's like you think to make it. L'chazek means to make it, to make it. It becomes strong. Shechitah means that it becomes hard. I'm not sure, I was sure I was working with Rashi. I just went with Rashi. Ah, it's a very big nafka mina. You'll soon see the great difference. The nafka mina is knowing what the Gemara says and not knowing what the Gemara says. Now listen carefully, we'll soon see. Let's see the Gemara inside, okay? So ספק, the Gemara wants to know maybe, כוון, his kavanah is לשמה. Now notice another thing I think is very important in the Gemara too. A person could do something, but his kavanah is something else. נכון? נכון or לא? Could be, could be, you could say that when Rashi talks in the beginning, Rashi is talking about what he did. What he did was what? Make it hard. What was his kavanah means? What's his intent? That's already the maskanah. That's how you could say pashut, l'chazek. You see, that's how you could read the Gemara. I was like, I can go back, I can go back. That's what the Gemara is saying. I know I am. That's exactly what I'm doing. The Gemara is saying like this: when a person throws into the fire stuff here, what was he doing? This is what he did. He did it, what? ליפשו. Dry it, meaning this is the maaseh that he's doing. The maaseh that he has, what is? Leyapsho. What? The second thing is, shetiskasher, that she become hard. My intentions for doing this is could be is lechazek. Why am I doing this? What I want—notice like this. Why am I eating? I'm eating so I should be full, I should be sustained. So the verb is what? Eating. And the totzaah is that I should feel full, right? So when the Gemara says, komecha, the Gemara discusses kavanah, and the Gemara discusses—that's why Rashi puts in the word what? Lechazek, right? Because that's already in the kavanah. We'll soon see if this is true. You with me? You with me? Okay, now let's see. So what's the Gemara's answer? Answers the Gemara. You with me? You with me? Says the Gemara like this: Ma hu deseima, lishrei mana ka mechaven, kamashma lan demirpe rafi vehadar kamet. Rashi, what does that mean? Says Rashi like this. Where's the Rashi? Oh. Marpi rafi, soft. Marpi rafi means it becomes soft. Vehadar kamet, then it becomes hard. Rashi: al yedei chom ha'or, it becomes, through the chom, through the heat of the fire, it becomes soft. Vehamayim shebetocho yotzim, and the water goes out. Uleachar sheyatzu meimav, kamet, and after the water goes out, then it becomes hard. Mitkasheh, kamit means mitkasheh. Vechirafi breisha, hava bishula. When it was rafi in the beginning, it isn't bishul. Now Rashi is a kis malei shel chidushim. Anybody who enjoys diyukim and chidushim in Rashi, this Rashi is full of it. Poo, my leh, every word here in the Chiddush. First of all, my question to you is like this. When Rashi comes along and says what? Mipirafi, soft, right? So what does Rashi say? Al yedei chom ha'or. Because it's very— Why does Rashi need that it should be al yedei chom ha'or? No. Why do you need al yedei chom ha'or? Why does Rashi stress al yedei chom ha'or? The answer is very simple, because if you look at the last line of Rashi, Rashi learns what is the bishul. Sheitas Rashi. Write down like this: sheitas Rashi, which is different than other Rishonim. I'm going to show you now two other pshatim in the Rishonim. I'm going to show you the shita of the Yereim, which, by the way, is brought down in Shulchan Aruch. I will also show you the shita of the Tosfos Rid, not brought down in Shulchan Aruch, which is different than Rashi. But first let's get Rashi. Rashi's shita is, and he says it clearly—underline it, you see the Rashi? The last two words of Rashi: vechi rafi b'reisha, when it became soft in the beginning.

Have a bishul. What's the bishul? That it became soft. Beautiful, right? Now, now, you ready? Now let's go back to the beginning of the Rashi. Al yedei chom ha'or. Why does Rashi have to say al yedei chom ha'or? Because if it's not soft, al yedei chom ha'or, it's not bishul. Why? Since the whole bishul is what? Is the ripui that has to be done al yedei chom ha'or. That's what Rashi starts off with that. But then comes the second part of Rashi, which is, chidush, atzum, nora, v'nifla, ... yotzim. What does Rashi need that for? Why is that important? Who cares that the water goes out? Oh. That's why it's becoming hard. Who cares? Who cares? Who cares? Science. Rashi's science. You know what? In case you want to make a science project, you know Rashi says, say very simple: you put a piece of wood into the fire, it gets soft. Bishulo again, it finished. It's there, it became soft. No, but the whole thing is became soft. That's what it says in the Gemara: it becomes soft. But Rashi doesn't need this kasha. Rashi holds the bishul from the beginning when it became soft. Al yedei chom ha'or. Al yedei chom ha'or. It was wet. It was wet, and then it got soft. Al yedei chom ha'or. Al ydei chom ha'or. It's קשה, I don't know what you want. Rashi says, al ydei chom ha'or. And who cares that it got hard? I don't know what, what does it got hard? That's because the mind will think, things that make it... Oh, but that's not true, see? My mind will make it hard, the opposite. The mind makes it soft, right? Chom ha'or that makes it hard. I know, so what's Rashi mean? That's the question. I don't know what. You know, Rashi should have stopped after these words, al ydei chom ha'or. Once it becomes rough, hu b'tchilah. What is Rashi... Meaning the two lines in Rashi in the middle don't need them. You need the first line and the last line of Rashi. No, but they're not making it soft. They're not making Rashi soft. You need what's there with the chom ha'or. Why did Rashi say that it comes out? That's why it has to come out. That's not completely irrelevant now. It comes out, then it gets hard. Who cares if it gets hard? Exactly. If Rashi wants to tell you what's happening, what is the... So let it be... Okay, now listen carefully. Okay, now listen carefully. I heard this from Rav ... I heard this from ... Yeah. ... Yeah, yeah. ... This is ... and always ... ... We'll see as the sugya goes on if it's true or not. Obviously, this Gemara teaches the very big chiddush. When we look at bishul, bishul is not cooking, okay? If you want to translate cooking, then it's wrong. What's the proof? Meaning, if you were to write a sefer, you translate bishul cooking, technically...

Even though, l'maaseh you're right, because that's what he translated, changing of something al ydei choma or. Okay? Who translates it? Oh. Status — same words I used — changing the status with five. Right. Now, the biggest proof, because you see you can have bishul by not ochel. ... The question is like this: what status is changing? Sura? Or, carefully, sura? Or mahut? What's the difference between that, mahut and sura? ... Rafui from kasheh. Rafui from kasheh. ... Rafui from kasheh is shinui mahut, right? Mahut. Essence. What do you mean by mahut? ... Essence form. You know what Tosfos is saying? They think I'm crazy. Do you understand what I just said, the way he said it? Huh? Huh? But do you understand the difference? Okay. Now listen. Mahut is the same thing. Now, mahut is the characteristics of it. For example, a person could be adam kasher or adam rach, right? Okay, adam, right? It's a person, right? Shekein adam yachol lihyot gadol v'katan. It's not the same thing, right? It's a form and shorter, right? Rashi held, okay? Rashi held like this, but has to be the what? Rashi held מספיק. You see? Rashi wanted that before was with water, now ... It has to change. That makes sense, right? Let me say it like this: from the moment it was marpei, that's where the bishul took place. Because the marpei was—what did it do? The marpei, it became soft, which caused the water to come out. Let me tell you something. Honestly, very few yeshivos would hear what I just told you. If you catch this, you're being big lamdan. He's a big lamdan, this fellow. Let me tell you something. Schmuel Deutsch is the biggest gaon in ... Letman de-palig ... Letman de-Torah, the biggest gaon. I mean, it's not even a question. He's a maggid shiur. Ten shiurim, ten different places, and he doesn't repeat. Yeah? Okay. Yeah, but you don't go to the shiur. The baki ness one, exactly, the baki ness. No. He is a genius. And you should know when he says it, he says it very simple. You think he's not saying anything. Questions, you know, ... He talks very simple. The walking talking genius. I met him a few times. I think so. Rav Shach used to say that I'm jealous. Very jealous. He said he's always a genius. He knows. He's an ... Ask anybody who ever stepped foot in ... Today in Eretz Yisrael, if you want to put out ... you need someone to make a ... give it to him and he gives you back connected ... You read through your book and he writes you all the ... He does it for a living. You got it? Essence or ... But Rashi wants to like this.

Mahut means it's soft and hard. Now it became soft, but Yosef changed the tzurah. What does that mean? Now it's with water, without. You know, there has to be a shinui b'etzem. Let's stop in the soft and hard. Ma shinui? Mipnei shehayah mayim b'zeh, achshav ein mayim b'zeh. So there has to be a physical change. Mamash a change that there wasn't water. When did that change take place? With the bishul sheb'ripui. That's what he wants to say. We'll get back to this. He says Rashi. First it starts off with ripui, which is what? Which is the change in the mahut. The mahut. Before it was kasheh, now it's rafui. But that's not enough. You also need to change the metzius of the thing. How do you change it? That the water went out. And when did that take place, with the fact that it became ripui. You with me? Okay, now let's move on. Ready? Now, everybody take a look. It's good, we learned Rashi. Now we understand, according to this, why the Gemara needs both. Rafui v'hadar kamit. What does v'hadar kamit mean? V'hadar kamit means because the water came out. Because the water came out. After. No, v'hadar means and then. Returns back to its status like it used to before the water. No, no, no, no. New thing. V'hadar kamit is actually even more. How do you learn the Gemara? Let's see how the Rach, right? We're learning how to learn. This is the shiur. We're learning how to take. So, so far we're making a link together. We're learning the Rashi, what yukim, and what Rashi means, how to read the Gemara. Now let's see how the Rach. The next thing is we go to the Rach. Let's see the Rash also. Okay, let's see the Rash. Atzam b'sfinot, u'kiotzet bahem. Meaning, to dry it, to put it in the boat, to work, whatever. And lo tasim—, not to be sticking it into a boat. Sfina is, I guess—oh, you know, also, gemina sfina, I think there's a lashon, the thing itself is called a sfina. The hook. I think Gemara in Shabbos, the hook itself is called a sfina. Okay, anyway, either way, whatever it is, it's not the— Let's move on to the next line. פירש לשרורי, לחתך, ויש אומרים, and the others say, סיכתא, הן גלל בהמה דקיקין, ומטילן לקישר, מה שחיים משום מעביר הרי חייב, והעוד חייב משום מבשל. Yeah? You know what the Gemara— ויש מי שאומרים, סיכתא. What is סיכתא? סיכתא is not wood, but rather it's גללי בהמה דקה, the kikin. The animal feces, excrement. Yeah? Different pshat. סיכתא, excrement from an animal. Why are you חייב? You're חייב for מבשל, making fire. חייב משום מבשל, making fire. The עוד חייב משום מבשל. I can tell you, I just hope your wife is not making you this for supper. I hope this—give you a bracha that this is not to your bishul, this is not to your wife's cooking. The fire itself just sticks. And also, ... And let's see why. Let's see how he explains it. What? You use it for things, like belt. How do you make a belt? It's also. Chagurah זה מזה, you know that? How do you think they can leather from a belt? Leather? Leather? Excellent. I know, I know. Listen carefully. ... זה שנצרך לומר כן, ולא תימא אין המפהר כלי חרס מבשל, מפני שמחזיק הכלי.

I would say that it's only machzik hakelia shminos, d'mirpe rafu, k'shein tit, u'mitpashlim, v'achar kach mitchazkim k'sheyitztarfu v'yisparu. What does he want here? So I would say, this is ... ein hamech, if I had a kli cheres. Mivasher, mipnei shemachzik hakeli, that there's no bishul over here. Ashnina, d'mirpe rafu k'shein tit, u'mitpashlim, v'achar kach mitchazkim, that they become rafu k'shein tit u'mitpashlim. The Rashi never learned—you see from here from the Rash—that the Rach never learned that what? That the Rach what? No. You see from this Rach, you see a mareh you can see from this Rach that there's no mayim. It's not in your mind; it's just Rach kosher. No, it's not in your mind. It's not lach; it's not a lach over here. No, it's not a lach. Yeah, but it's not lach. It's not the lach. He doesn't talk about the lach. He talks about ... What's contradiction? What? The ship is... That's... ... Right. ... Here we're talking about two different cases now. We're not talking about drawing. Here we're talking about to make it into like a kli, to form, to make it into a form. It's not a question of... Yeah. ... Two... Then in the old time, people used to say... ... First... ... That's to... ... According to the first pshat, you see that there's an issue of mayim and not mayim. In the second pshat, it's not a question of mayim and not mayim. It's rafui techazak. Rafui techazak, but that's not official. That's right. I'm showing you. No, I'm showing you the Rach is learning in the second girsa that has nothing to do with mayim. It has to do with rafui techazak already is official. Mayim. Rashi sticks in the mayim, going in and going out, the water. Yes. According to Rashi, it's not a case. Because that is... Rafui techazak is one problem. ... That's the official another problem. Rafui techazak, point to who? Rabbeinu Chananel. In the first pshat, it's learning that it's a question of miyapesh, like Rashi. Then Rabbeinu Chananel's second pshat has nothing to do with miyapesh at all. It has to do, like he said, he gives a case: ... because... It has nothing to do with water coming in or coming out. Water is not even an issue. That's what I'm showing. Shitas Rashi is, the water, shayach la-bishul, aval lo she'etzem hamayim ha-bishul, ela she'etzem ha-ripui ha-bishul. ... Aval mah ha-keshudah hu al yedei mah shezeh na'aseh ripui, achshav medabrim al hamayim sheyatza. According to Beis Chanan, second pshat, it has nothing to do with water. It has to do with structure. I made it soft to hard. I made it a kli from not a kli into a kli. This is what the nekudah is. ... According to that, it's unbelievable. You see here, any change is chayav mishum bishul. It's not tzurah; it is tzurah. It's only tzurah, not substance. I see it, but he compares to make it into a kli. According to him, it's like making it into a kli. The Ritva, and he asks a very big kashya: what does it say over here? It says over here that if you go from soft to hard, it's called water bishul. What happens if you have the same case, going to ... latuna, if you go...

If it's sichsoch latuna, is a chiyuv משום בישול עכום, huh? ... What happens? It's a ... here. Kasli. That's not ... I'm leaning on ipcha. Hai goy d'shad sichta latuna, here, and ba משום בישולי עכום. What? Yeah. I'm leaning on pshita. Why? Bishul akum ... What kind of bishul akum could you have over here? How are you going to eat it? Somebody went, the goy took a piece of wood and he threw it into the fire. What's the halacha? Shabbos, he chayav. Says the Gemara, ... bishul akum, because he's chayav משום מבשל. Chayav משום מבשל. Says the Gemara, pshita. Of course, you can't eat it. Oh, but ... And the Gemara does not answer what you answer. The Gemara answers like this: מאו דתימא לבשולי מחבא. I would think he means, come on, it's bishul. ... come on, just to make it hard. Even if it's bishul, which is the exact opposite of the Gemara. The Gemara doesn't answer your teretz that there's no bishul akum. Here, this stick would be asur משום בישול עכום. Why? Yes, yes. Wait a minute. Unbelievable. Wait a minute. A person takes, if a guy went, he took a piece of wood and he threw it into the fire. Says the Gemara, you know what? It should be chayav for bishul. Why? Chayav for Shabbos, bishul, so it's bishul akum then. You're gonna come and say, What do you mean? Bishul... Look at that, right? The Gemara doesn't say that. The Gemara doesn't need to ... teretz. What's the simple teretz? The Gemara says, Lo mechaven l'bishul, mechaven l'lishrei mana. It's the exact opposite of our Gemara. Our Gemara says, I would think mechaven l'lishrei mana, kamashma lan mechaven l'bishul. Just to straighten it out, to make it hard. Again, what does our Gemara say? Is it bishul? No. Our Gemara. Our Gemara is chayav shemevashel, and I would think that what? You're just hardening it, kamashma lan chayav mishum bishul. So how can Gemara be the exact opposite? Gemara says chayav mishum bishul. Is there bishul akum? Says Gemara, no. Gemara says no bishul akum. Why? Shani hatam, because he's not mechaven for bishul; he's mechaven just to straighten it out. Because he's not chayav bishul. Here, Gemara is the exact opposite. When a person throws it in, he's mechaven l'bishul, not mechaven l'shrei mana. Let's see what Tosfos. Hacha l'inyan Shabbos, ichmiru. What happened? Shabbos ichmiru. Shabbos, there's two melachos yesh bo. There's two things. What is it? Bishulei mana, k'derafi marpa, u'shurei mana k'dekamit. והנה שבת ראוי לחייב משום דמבשל, שאף למבשל מתכוון ולא לשחורי. אלא בהכי. אבל התם, משום דרבנן, כיון דמתכוון לשחורי מנא, אין להחמיר לעשות אפילו כשמתכוון לבשל חמור, לעשות שלא נתכוון בשבות השלוש. כן תירץ רבי הגדול, הוא רבי הגדול, רמבן. Okay, he says like there's two things there, two problems there. He says like, on Shabbat, on Shabbat, it's true, yeah? Yeah, you listen carefully. On Shabbat, it's true that he's not being mechaven. Come, come, come. He's not mechaven לבישול. And the truth is, you know, what, this guy trying to cook? He's cook something here? Cook? What, the guy takes a stick? He's not trying to cook the stick, right? אלא מאי? יש בו בישול. It has in it the same nekudot of bishul. Why bishul, יעקב, which is only derabbanan, but by what you call, which is... קשה, this Tosafos is very simple then. So why chayiv? Why is he chayiv? How can he be chayiv משום מבשל?

That's a very simple. If not mamash bishul, why? Because you want mechaven with bishul. You ever see a guy put on his chef's hat, come and cook some...? He was sugaring. You take the guy that's the guy, right? So his kavanah is definitely not what? His kavanah is definitely not... Rav Shel. Aval, kivan shemashu, say yesh bo gam bishul, v'Yash Shabbat yachmiru. Shekein bishul, akum, it's only derabbanan anyway. Only derabbanan, so meikel, right? Oh, that's the kasha. ... chayav. Yeah. What do you do with the Gemara? ... machmirinan. Quotes repeat over again. Quotes repeat over again. Slow. You know, nice if you know. Great to make it soft, but one part it should become hard. So the problem is, on the part that it becomes hard is bishul, but his kavanah was not for that. His kavanah is for the sof davar. What's the sof davar? Is to get hard, and there shouldn't be bishul, he's interested in cookies. So I would say that what? That it should be patur, but since it has it in. What's the bottom line why this guy's doing? Liapesh, to make it dry, no? Who cares that it first starts to become soft? The answer is, it has it, but he wants to be mechaven for that. Hu kivan l'hapot to make it soft? No. Therefore, should be patur. The truth is, he should be patur. The clear is only Shabbat and chumra will be machmir. Question, I don't know. What do you do with chayav? What do you do with... No, it says chayav. What do you do with the Gemara? I don't know what you do with the Gemara. Chayav. I'll let you learn, like we said before. I don't know, I don't know. There's something wrong. This is what it is. Well, so we said a few weeks ago that if we do a melacha that's similar, we also aser it. That's what I said. That's what you see from it. I'm not so... I'd rather say it more... I said it only by borer, because by borer there's no ma'aseh. Borer is only kavanah in the first place. But here is really a ma'aseh. You can't say it. You can't. Kivan sheyesh bo gam... it's hard. I'm mechaven for it. That's because you're mechaven to do those subcategories. You're not patur. You're not patur. It's patur. Okay, this is the Ritva. Huh? Who? Then I'm chayav min haTorah, no? Yeah, but that's a mechaven. Don't come and give me a case of not mechaven. Oh, there's the Ramban. The truth is, if you look at the Ramban, the Ramban says an interesting nekudah. The Ramban comes along and says, you know, here's the different case. Even if he wasn't mechaven to the bishul part, to the depuy, it becomes a psik reisha. Oh my God. It comes along. Don't say nicha lei, because it is nicha lei. You want it to happen. It comes through. Nicha lei? What do you mean? Just don't care about it. You don't need the bishul. Don't say nicha lei, but say what? You need the ... and it's a legufa. That's what the Ramban. Comfortable, the Ramban says, Ramban, what are you talking about? Again, this is what comfortable says like this: because it has an ibishl, even though you're not mechaven to bishul, for Shabbos it's going to be machmir. The question was, what does he want machmir mean? The truth is, he brings it down from the Ramban, right? You look at the Ramban, the Ramban says clearly because it's a psik reisha, that's why. You're for sure going to get rafui when you put the thing into the fire; it's for sure going to get rafui. And meileh becomes like bishul. So therefore it's a psik reisha bishul, so even if you weren't mechaven, you're still chayav. Right, because it's a psik reisha. The problem is—no, psik reisha d'lo nicha lei. Nicha lei is Ramban. Yes, but it's not true. Not even psik reisha when you cut. You're chayav, no? Yes. Yeah, but you need legufa for the cutting of the head. I said that you want the cutting. It's not true; you do want the cutting. Cutting is still what you need. Sure. Where? Sure you need legufa; you need the cutting of the head.

You need to put two kids to play with it. This is the example that they always bring. You were the kid, you wanted to play, nothing. Hold on, hold on. You cut off a chicken head. You want that the head should be cut off? That's what you want. I understand, but you want a chicken's head cut off. My tankin over here, you don't want rafui at all. Halavai it should have become rafui. Halavai it should jump straight to kasher. No, no, that's a shitas... Let's see inside. Let's see the Rashita, shitas ha-Ra. The shitas ha-Ra comes and says, even according to Ramban, you're still going to answer the kasha. Why not? Ramban explains, so why is it that we say yechayim mishum bishul? Where's the bishul? The Ritva says we're machmir b'baal... Look at the Ramban. He's quoting Ramban. Ramban's explanation, that's why. Okay, read, read shitas ha-Ra. Comes the shitas ha-Ra to begin, I didn't see anything, because even if some explanation, but it's lo tzricha legufah. He didn't help me anything. That's the Ramban's kasha. Still the Ramban. You don't need those soft things. You need the hard. Oh, oh, oh. Good. Read the shitas ha-Ra. Read the shitas ha-Ra and then we'll see... Yeah, ... lo tzricha legufah. Good. Okay, ... the mirpa. Peirush. No, don't ... now. This is just the main nekudah. Here. Peirush. ... the nishum bishul nami ... You see whose pshat is this? Tosafos, the Ritva. ... Why? They both things are in here. Once you say that, it has both. It has the bishul, and it also has one, it has the nekudah of you want kamit, that you want to just make it hard. Okay? Wait, wait, wait. Bishul is a rough way, and kashya is another problem? Okay. No, one is problem, one is kashya, one is mutar. The harding is mutar, mutar. That's mutar. The soft thing that's the problem, right? So, wait, wait, wait. Everybody, so far everybody holds the harding. The soft thing is the issue. The soft thing also, maybe Rashi has to add the water to. Rashi adds in the kashya, I'm hearing the water. Whatever it is, oh, the Rashbam took the harding. ... from soft to hard. Soft to hard, hard to soft. What's this? ... shein tid. ... I never said it that way. I said that because the softening itself without the water becomes the ... I never said the harding. He compares it to making a keli, but doesn't say that the ... soft to hard makes the ... I never said that. Why is harding also a problem? Why? ... bishulei goyim ... ... kashya. There's a kashya. He has this question. Now, the ... l'gabei Shabbos nami, ... loiser bishul ... l'gufo. Why? Because the efshar b'lav hachi, sikrahu. The chashuv like kibulah chatzichah l'gufah. So mishum vishurei mana boi keichad. Let me ask you a question. When I turn on a light, what happens? The light goes on over here, right? Switch, turn the light. Did I need to turn on the switch? I just want the light. So you're going to come and say it's a melachah she'ein tzrichah l'gufah? Says the Chazon Ish, no. Why? Because it's a direct result. When something is a direct result of something else, you can't say melachah she'ein tzrichah l'gufah. That's disrach. That's disrach. The Ran is saying like, comes along the Ran and says, wait a minute, wait a minute. It's a melachah she'ein tzrichah l'gufah. It's an eino miskaven. Says the Ran, boi keichad. When it comes together, you don't say it's a melachah she'ein tzrichah l'gufah. Here it's a direct result. It's two things, and then it happens. It's like turning on the switch.

I'm comparing ... writes this sevara by ... Okay, you got it? It's a very big klal. Huh? ... one shot. ... one shot. Okay, again, simple, let's go, come. Ready? Scratch. I'll tell you why I don't want to do scratch. I'll tell you in a minute why. What do we do? I mean, I still have to tell you the shita of the Yereim. I still have to teach you the shita of the Rambam, the shita of Tosafos. I'll tell you what we'll do. You know what we'll do? Im yirtzeh Hashem, I'm going to show you, I'm going to show you something very interesting. According to the Rambam, I'm going to show you that it's not the ripui; it's a matter of fact, it's kishui. It's the fact that it becomes hard. That's what makes it different. Rashi learns it's the fact that you're making it full. Let me tell you what we're going to do tomorrow. You know what? That's how we'll do it. I'm going to give you a little bit of a rundown of what we do tomorrow. Till now, we were doing Rashi's shita, that what is it? It's the softening. The thing is, we didn't understand in Rashi why the water has to come in and come out. We said ... whatever. The second pshat I want to show you is the Rambam's pshat. The Rambam learns it's not the ... it's becoming hard. That's changing; it's not the ripui, but— Where do I know this from? I'm going to show you tomorrow. The Rambam learns by a metal, hatunah doesn't have to be wood with water and soap. Even by metal, it's צריך ... And by metal, it's not becoming soft. Huh? They had nothing with the water. Okay, stop telling me. I'll tell you. Again, according to the Rashi, what's the bishul here in the sugya? According to the Rambam, you'll see the ... Where's the Rambam? Kamit. That's what the Gemara means, hadar kamit. That's why the Gemara brings the hadar kamit, because that's the bishul. Huh? Metal becomes hard. Metal becomes hard. Huh? Metal, when you put it in heat, you put it in fire. First it becomes a little soft, and the Rambam says it becomes hard. If you take it out, it becomes hard. The Rambam literally did. That's when the bishul is, when you take it out. Right. It's on fire. That's the bishul. I'll show you the Rambam tomorrow. Show you the Rambam tomorrow. That's not the ... that's sura. Go suci, mahu sura, and I'll tell you even more. The ... maaseh ... but I don't get into it right now. The maaseh, the maaseh of what? We don't look at the maaseh, we look at the result. Tomorrow, there's also tomorrow. The ... I'm going to show you that there's a ... that learns that you know what the bishul was? The mayim atzmo bifnim, ha'etz, that's ... Has mayim. You have water here, it's cooking. This is the sheet of a Mordechai, and I'll show you b'ezras Hashem tomorrow, Shulchan Aruch paskens like this Mordechai. I'll prove it to you from a Kiveiger. The Mechaber says that the water of boiling — the Mordechai says the water itself that you boil. Okay? Makes sense, right? It's the most simplest pshat, right? Okay. This is not yedei anyway, right or wrong? This is not yedei. This is a shabbos. Now, and there's another pshat, rabosai, b'ezras Hashem we'll see the Tosfos. How do you cook? You take a piece of meat and you cook it in water. You're cooking the wood with the water that's in it. Tosfos. You cook the wood with the water that's in it. על ידי המים שבתוכו עכשיו העץ מתבשל. Oh. Hard, it changes status. The water goes out, right? Because you can't cook without water. You're cooking — here you have water. ...

The Ritva says, right, we spoke yesterday, he wanted from the Ritva, right? The Ritva has a very good question. Very kasha. What's the Ritva's question? The Zohar says clearly the opposite, that if somebody took this piece of wood and he puts it where? Into the fire, what's the halacha? Ein bo mishum bishul akum. Ein bo mishum bishul akum. Question is, why not? Why is there no bishul akum? Gemara says, I would think there's bishul akum because of what? Because you had your kavanah to fix it, right? The bishulimanah. Kamashmalan, it's only once the shiuray to straighten it out, and therefore there's no bishul. Because I would say that yesh bo mishum bishul. Kamashmalan says there's no bishul. Ha-kavanah shelo ma, rak l'shiurei manah, yeah, to make it soft. That's the whole kavanah. Now, the emes is the Tosfos, I saw yesterday, we showed you, gives a more simple teretz. What's the simple teretz? I did. The Ritva says like this: Why is there no bishul? Yeah, you can look it up over there. Yeah. Very simple, because bishul akum is only by achilah, it's only by food. And he says a very nice svara. What's the whole reason why Chazal metaken bishul akum? Because we're afraid that you'll eat with them, then you'll make party with them, and then you'll do aveirah with them. So how does this apply to wood, man d'sheichach l'wood? Hacha omer Tosfos. But you see the Ritva doesn't learn that way. What? The what, the what, the what? Kasha is what? The Ritva's kasha is... This is Kashrus. So why over there we used up in our sugya? What's the hetter called the Ritva? Maybe the Tosafos is right. Tosafos, the Gemara says bishul akum is only by what? Tosafos says bishul akum is only by food, yeah? Bishul akum is only by food. Maybe he's right. Why does the Ritva not give this teirutz? And the answer is very simple, because the Gemara doesn't give this teirutz. How can the Gemara never say that bishul akum doesn't apply over here? Rather, what does the Gemara say? The Gemara says a special reason, l'shurei mana kamecha. But obviously it has nothing to do with what? You're right, bishul akum is only by food. It has to do with—comes along the Rishonim openly. Yes. The Ritva learns that once they were gozer on bishul, gazru on kol bishul. That's pshat in the Ritva. Once something is called bishul— Exactly. Whether or not the svara applies or not, you have to say the Ritva learns, that's exactly, that's pashut pshat, halacha applies. That's pshat in the Ritva. You're right. Even though the svara doesn't apply, the halacha applies. You want to know something? This is a very big shaila in bishul akum, where the reason doesn't apply and the halacha still applies. For example, today, if chips— Chips is not on the Shulchan Aruch. You still make parties with it. Yeah. Still going, still cooking. It's something else, it's not on the Shulchan Aruch. That's a shaila. You're going into a shaila that's here, still should be aser. That's the machlokes, the Chochmas Adam and... Comes the Rishonim, and the Rishonim say beautiful. This is the heart of the sugya; זה הלב של הסוגיא פה. Here you have a kasha. What's the kasha? Says the Rishonim, why over here don't we say also, ... מודה במקצת? Answers the Ritva, סוף סוף יש בו גם פטור, דיש לו, אז מחמירינן. It's a chumra like. So you ask your kasha, what's machmirinan? Says chayavs the Ritva. The Ritva says like this: since the whole bishul akum is only derabbanan, we're going to be meikel. We'll say l'shurei, ... bishul akum, ... which is the right of bishul. What are we going to say? We say we look at the bishul part. Comes out that the words of the Ritva is saying it's not really de'oraisa, which is what I asked you yesterday, right? The Gemara says chayav. What? That's what makes it de'oraisa. I can see it, but the Ritva says, be'etzem it's not 100% because it's also l'shurei, ... See, in this Gemara, the way—let me explain to you—I want you to hear it because I'm telling you pashut pshat. For example, ready? If you had to translate the Gemara to a child.

How would you translate these words? This, this words. Hai man, yes. Mahu d'teima lishrei, man d'ka mechaven. I would think to say that you're coming to... For this, kamashmalan what? Shechozrim mizeh v'chozrim. That's the whole shakla v'tarya. If the kamashmalan is what? Shechozrim mizeh. What? That's using the kamashmalan. What? Then we have a real question, and not only we have a real question, and listen good, a stira, and not only we have a stira, then I understand the chiyuv, the Gemara. Because your kavanah is takah for cooking. And once your kavanah is for cooking, you can be chayav for Shabbos, for melachas bishul for cooking. Comes the Ritva and is mechadesh, chas v'shalom, the kamashmalan, the Gemara is what? Not falling away from shiurei mano. Where is the Gemara going back to? Shiurei mano, and also it has in it what, like the lashon of the Gemara, d'mirpa rafi v'hadar kami. It has both. It has both. And since it has both, we're going to be machmir. That's what the Ritva says. We're not chozer. According to the pashut pshat in the Gemara, chozrim. Why? We're saying that it's not so much bishul shari, that he's trying to straighten it out, but rather what? Matir rafi, there's bishul over here. I must conclude, but the Ritva says, mitoch hechrech, you have to say that, because otherwise it's a stira to the Gemara, v'ei dazar, right? According to the Ritva, you have to say the Gemara was never chozer from the fact that he also is mechaven. It's an and. Heicha d'yesh bo shtayim, since it has both... I would think to say that there's only one reason. Kamashmalan there's another reason. I understand, but what happens? That leads to the next kasha of the Rishonim. If he's also mechaven l'shrei shrari to also to make it straight, comes out you're lacking one kavanah for a bishul. Because you're kavanah. So, mother... If it's l'shurei mana, right? Slow, slow, slow. First it's l'shurei shrara, so I would think it's mutar, kamashmalan that it's mai pirafi. Now, if that's pshat in the Gemara, then there's a tremendous stirah to the Gemara in Zevachim. The Gemara in Zevachim is the exact opposite. Says the Ritva, you have to learn the Gemara differently. How are you learning the Gemara differently? Mishrei shrari means what? He's mechaven for this, and also he's mechaven for mai pirafi in the second thing also. Maybe it's not a question, okay? Which one of the two is the main one? Says the Gemara, we don't know. We're not sure. So by Shabbos, that's what the Ritva says. If the Gemara would have said here—if you can't say by Shabbos, you can't do that, because you're talking about the person. You don't know what the person's kavanah is. You have to learn it's the same case, but you don't know what's happening. It depends on the person, but it depends on the person. You can't tell me what his kavanah is. It's about person kavanah. It's not one at a time. I'm asking, it has to be the same case. Here it has to be the same case. You can't say here it's one case, there it's another case. It's the same case. So what's the nafka mina? The nafka mina is like, since Shabbos is d'oraisa, we're machmir. Why what? What's the question of the Gemara? Because David says that he's not mechaven for miperafi, he's mechaven for l'shurei, to make it straight. Here it says the exact opposite. This reason, push away that reason. I don't know what it is. Here it says the Ritva, like over here by Shabbos. We'll be machmir. Everybody, by what you call it, we'll be machmir. Now, what do I have to do after this Ritva? I have to go back to the Gemara and say, one second, I have to connect to the Gemara, right? So what do I do? I read the Gemara. The Gemara says, Mishrashari. He's trying to straighten it out. Chamashmalon, me'apera, he's making it soft. Obviously, what does the Gemara mean? Are we falling away from Mishrashari? Obviously not. No, because Ritva says they have both, and we'll be machmir for Shabbos. So obviously the chamashmalon is that there's both. I would think there's only this. The chamashmalon, that there's both. There's even the... Come, it is not the shiurim. Yeah, he just says... I understand, I understand, I understand. The other come could be in Rashi part of the bishul. I don't want to get into that. But the shiurei, surely. You know what? It's kind of... okay.

No, but I'll show you. I agree. I agree. He says like this: he knows what I want. You're happy, but keep it this way, okay? Leave it like this, because ... okay, it's not again, you know, he's happy. In the Ritva, it's good. You learned this. Good. Now listen carefully. So it comes out that when the Gemara says, Mir perafi, that's patur. It's a patur, okay? Good. You listening? Also patur. Good. Also patur. Now, if that's true, im ze emes, shema sheyesh bo gam inyan shel ma, mishum shoring, sheze mutar, and also it has mir perafi, which is asur. Now the Rishonim's question comes to light. Nachlok kushya d'Ramban. What's the question of Ramban? Is if it has both, if it has both, and what? It's only a chumra, so it comes out that be'etzem you're doing something which is not asur on Shabbat. Meaning, you know what I'm saying? Let's say you're mechaven to this, right? It also has in it mir perafi. That's not asur on Shabbat. If the taiches, your whole kavanah is only mir perafi, then you could say it's asur. But if your kavanah is later, what comes later, shurei shurei mana. But since it also has—what means it also has? In every hilchos Shabbat, that's patur. That's Ramban's kasha. Straighten it out. L'chazek it. And not holding yet. Mamash not holding yet. Slow. Everybody understand the Ramban's question? If it's true, you see, pashut shan the Gemara is the Gemara is falling away. This person, shiurei shari, he's not trying to make it hard, כי ממילא became hard. ממילא became hard. What does he want? He just wants to get the water out of it and to make it. Which is a little difficult. I'm not sure why he would דווקא want that over anything else, but he wants to soften it, okay? He's not looking for the last part of it that it becomes hard. True? That's pashut shan the Gemara. I would say shiurei shari is like mirpa rafi, meaning what? His kavanah is mirpa rafi. But the way the Ritva is learning, then it's not so pashut that it's mirpa rafi. Mirpa rafi is only lo shem mechaven l'zeh, u'mechaven l'mana. But not yesh b'zeh gam mirpa rafi. If that's true, says the Ramban, then you have a problem that your melachah is not a melachah anymore, כי ונתא לדבר המותר, גם יש בו ענין איסור, it should be mutar. Let's say I'm mechaven for something which is mutar, and during I do that, I do something which is asur. It also happens, it's very not so. כי ונתי לאיסורא, I wasn't mechaven to melachah. אף על פי כן מחשבתו, I should be patur. Amazing kasha. Amazing kasha. The Gemara doesn't make sense. See, bishlema if you fall away and you say, you know what, the hador kamit is not nogea, I believe that now you understand pshat in Rashi too. Rashi was learning the hador kamit. Was a chelek of the bishul also. And you know why Rashi had to learn the hadar comes as a chelek of the bishul? Because otherwise you have the Ramban's kasha. In other words, so true, I'm telling you, you should know, all I'm doing is teach you what it says. You gotta see it. Here again. You like it, huh? Beautiful, no? That's why Rashi comes along and says, when shiurei shori in the havamina in the Gemara, not yitkasheh, but l'chazek. Because on the yitkasheh, Rashi was still learning it's a chelek of the bishul. It has to be shiurei shori, that could be you. Bichlal don't want the bishul here. You just want the result, sheyechazek, that it should become the... Sheyechazek. You want the result. You didn't want the ma'aseh. You wanted the result. Kamashmalan, I did the ma'aseh and I have kavana for the ma'aseh. Again, it's very simple. Listen carefully. I want you to listen. You ready? Listen carefully. Does everybody understand the Ramban's question? Yeah. Ramban's question is like this: once you learn like the Ritva, once you learn like the Ritva...

That's the pshat is, we're not falling away. The Gemara never said that it's lo shiurei shari. The shiurei shari comes. Lachem be'etzem is like ilu ze chumra, because be'etzem it should be what? Patur. Vad sheyesh bo gam mirpafei, patur. Meaning, we don't fall away from the first piece of Gemara. What's the question then, Baruch? You know what the question is? How can you be chayav for hilchos Shabbos for that? What are you talking about? Gemara. What are you saying? The Gemara says chayav. What are you saying? Once your kavana is something else, that's patur. Yeah, it should be patur. That's what it should be. That's the Ramban. We're not holding yet. That's not against you, Rashi. Before Rashi. If the shiurei—shiurei, he tried to straighten out this thing, and that was his kavana, but gam yesh bo ... that pshat in the Gemara says to Ramban, then the ... what are you talking about? How can you be chayav for that? That's the question. Before we get to Ramban's teretz, I'm telling you that's why I understand beautifully Rashi. You notice that when Rashi discussed the bishul part, Rashi tried to bring in the hadar kamit as a chelek of the bishul, that the water goes out and the mitkasheh. You notice that Rashi brought in that also. Right? Why did Rashi need that? This is very simple. Because Rashi needed that the kavana, which is what? That it should become hard, had to be a kavana of ma'aseh bishul, if not, you're patur. The Ramban's question: if your whole kavana is what? Shiurim to make it hard, and that's not the bishul. So who cares if the marpis bishul? L'maaseh, you want mecham for bishul. There's no melachah sheyesh bishul. So that's why Rashi had to learn that in order to be chayiv, even the hader kamin, even the sheyitzkashes lusa chelek in the bishul, that the water goes out and now it's hot and now it's bishul. Otherwise, al matkivanti. Again, al matkivanti. ... al matkivan. Okay? Im ze l'rak l'rakech, then pasuk, right? So it wouldn't be saying it. There would be no Gemara in Avodah Zarah. Ela mai, my kavanah is l'chazek, right? What does the Gemara call the bishul? He says l'chazek, but he means l'kasher, to make it hard, right? Shiurei bishul. Right. So then when the Gemara comes along and says, what is the bishul? The Gemara says it's the mirpeh rapi, right? The fact that it becomes soft. So, but your kavanah was not for that. That's the Ramban's kashya. That's why Rashi learns that even the yitzkasher, even the chelek, not רק mirpeh rapi, but even the hader kamin is also the bishul, because you need that he's mecham for bishul to be chayiv. So then what was the Gemara's kashya of shiurei shari? Beautiful. The Gemara's kashya is, why do we look at the machshavah on the maaseh? Look at the machshavah on what he wanted to accomplish. The outcome. Outcome. But the Gemara says there's a big machlokes in the sugya. If he went to take two and he found three. Remember the sugya, if he went to take two grapes and he found three grapes? The maaseh is there, but the machshevet, meaning the result, is not there. That's a big sugya. That's the taluy in this sugya. That's the question in this sugya. The question in this sugya is, do we look at what's the melas machsheves? Did he try to accomplish maaseh bishul, or did he try to accomplish result of bishul? According to Rashi, the havamina was... No, when the Gemara asks the kasha...