Shabbos 123a: Muktzeh, Tiltul Min HaTzad, and the Status of Kelim

Transcript

The Mishnah Berurah disagrees with it. Why? Why does the Mishnah Berurah disagree with this halacha? It's muktzah. What are you talking about? And who agrees with it? The Gra, the Pri Chadash. Says the Mishnah Berurah, soon, soon, soon I'll answer. Wait. So what does he do? He gives two seifim later. He brings, he says a teretz. What's the teretz? Since you put also junk in there, it's not a muktzah. ... That's not with the beis meir. The Beis Meir is saying, he says since it wasn't ... it can't be muktzah. No one's ... for a pocketbook. You're not ... Since you're not ... pocketbook, there's only one ... You copy, you copy. You're only ... You're not ... You don't take your wallet and you put it in a special place. No, you put it away because the kids don't have the money. Yeah, they shouldn't get to the money. There's no money inside. Special place for a pocketbook. See, cover the lie you made. That's the most you can have. Maybe the most is your expensive wallet. So you cover it, but you're not going to be ... That's the ... brings the Beis Meir. You weren't ... because ... Therefore it's not a muktzah ... Good? So what did the Rama hold? Oh, it's crazy, right? What did the Magen Avraham hold? What happened, right? What did the Magen Avraham hold? Hell, you don't need ... Like this. You don't need ... As long as the person's ... As long as the person's ... you need ... Rather, I know firsthand from R' Moshe, and I know firsthand from ... when I was in Eretz Yisrael, I discussed it with them, and they paskened like the ... that you don't need ... not like the Beis Shmuel. And you know what ... pained? A person has a special place for shemashes in his house. ... Where do you keep the laundry? ... ... ... it has to be one with another. If you ... makom, it has to be capitalized also. I understand. Why is it not capitalized? ... The ... doesn't make a mokom ... No, of course not. Capitalize. Of course. ... If you ask ... mokom, the answer is capitalized. This ... Avraham holds ... is a chiddush in the Beis Meir. You איתי, you איתי, come. ... You explain the difference to me. When you clean up a house, not because of things that are ... you want the house to be clean. ... is a special place for it. ... That's ... everything there. ... He just copied ... what you call ... ... That's ... is not regular ... and I'll prove it to you, because Reb Yosi, Reb Yosi, there he means ... as a raya. Here, the yachid makom, and he stresses makom biyadayim, special halacha, because a hatomoidim is a special halacha. And that's why it says hatomoidim. Hatomoidim, mashu shoyi ifer if Shimon doesn't hold a muktzah. Ifer if Shimon doesn't hold a muktzah. No, yesterday about shoy, it's a peshut taich like that. Hatomoidim. No, it's a taich. Ifer if Shimon doesn't hold a muktzah will hold by, because he's makpid biyadayim. Ifer Shimon doesn't hold a muktzah. Hatomoidim and the chamir. Hatomoidim, all the people muktzah. Hatomoidim, yeah. ... I believe there's two sugyas in muktzah. There's one sugya in muktzah, ... case, carpet a lot. The yachid l'makom is just a raya. That's this sugya over here. Then there's another sugya called sichi, ziri, and mezuri, special, that these ... is because he was makpid biyadayim. But according to Rav Shimon, why was it there? He doesn't hold a muktzah בכלל. I'm telling you, because here he was makpid biyadayim.

This doesn't. I think a mukta bichlal, definitely. The eved nothing becomes mukta. What name would you put it? You'd put in mukta, or you just say it's not allowed. So let me tell you: either a person doesn't hold of mukta. You know what that means? He doesn't hold of regular mukta, sorry, kids, and these things don't. But certain things are stronger mukta. Now, you know what my biggest raya is? Yeah. Notice that the Mishnah didn't say hacha mai dim. Rabbi Yosi didn't speak about tzrichizim and this, right? Why didn't Rabbi Yosi say hacha mai dim by this also? Why did Rabbi Yosi pick those two cases and not these three cases? There's five cases of ... sorry, kids, in the Mishnah, right? There's two in the Mishnah and three in the Gemara. That's all you have. Two in the Mishnah. ... The actual mukta doesn't make ... It's ... by that. ... Why? Because that carpet. It's carpet. But לפי מה ... it's carpet. It's carpet. ... Rabbi Yosi ... that he's ... That's all. ... doesn't mean anything. ... special. It's carpet. Two things. If it's carpet. ... doesn't mean anything. You have such a ... garbage too. Who cares? Okay, listen to what I want. I believe that the biggest raya to this ... again, there's a sugya called mukta ... matzar hagadol. Maaseh agav, you should know this is pikuach nefesh. I have to leave in 15 minutes, please, let me... Yeah? Maaseh agav, I have to be out of here. She was... three minutes late. She was not my wife. No. That's cool. One... that's the Mishnah. That's the Mishnah. What's the halacha there? The halacha there is, miyach... That's all. Thank you. Over here, it's not miyach... It's not. That needs to be... I'm bringing the biggest raya l'olam. The Beis Yosef in siman shin ches, in Yoreh Deah. Has a she'eilah: if a mukzah machmas issur in kis becomes mutar, l'tzorech gufo u'mekomo. You must see... If a mukzah machmas issur in kis can become mutar with... by a tikun... Agav. This is stam a... Look at the Beis Yosef, I'm making it up. The Beis Yosef, he has a she'eilah, always making up. The she'eilah is, he clarifies the she'eilah and he says, ... Everybody asks, what do you mean? It's a peshita Gemara. Sichi zera... What's up? ... What, he didn't know this Gemara, the Beis Yosef? It's a peshita Gemara. Wow. What do you mean, that's what? ... What's the she'eilah? Peshita Gemara. I'm saying, where does mukzah learn from? He says, how do you know... How do I know it's not good even... He asks him a question, and he goes through a whole... ... Gemara. ... Right? ... He's going on the ... He's not ... ... the Mishnah. The Mishnah doesn't say. ... I'll give you a special... Could you do this? And you know, you know what this is? I showed you a Mordechai. Mutar b'sarif, and over there he says it's mutar with tzarich, mutar l'katchila. Remember the Mordechai? Yeah, yeah. Comes the Beis Yosef, and he says, ... the Gemara says mutar b'sarif. But after the sugya, ... I showed you the Mordechai. Take out the Mordechai. ... We learned the shulchan again. Remember the Mordechai we learned? The Mordechai says clearly that ... that ... ... That's ...

Most of the ... are. Here, like this, like this ray over here on the bottom. Comes with the beged yesh on the bottom, and it says here, but what do you do with ... The teretz is, ... machlokes. What do you want? ... He brings ... He says, ... says machma, ... It's also says ... The ... You know, if ... cannot ... But if it's miyakel ... then it would come ... Let me tell you. Let me tell you. There's a Gemara, mem-hei amud beis. Menayer is asur l'haltza, right? We finally got there, huh? Menayer. Okay, you'll take. Take, take, take. ... Menayer. The whole sugya called menayer. The Gemara comes out with maskana. First we saw it's a mukhmach, and then the Gemara comes out to keilim shemelachtam l'issur. You know, take out... Mem-hei. Wait, wait. We have to have like one shiur, two days. We have to have one shiur, two days. Listen, you'll make copies today for this chumash shiur, okay? And you'll make copies. I'm leaving you this. ... Right? ... You can do it. I have a chiddush ... You know this ... when I was a kid. This teretz of the ... when I was a kid. ... Now, ... yeah. ... Mutar l'taltel, b'shtei yadav, asur l'taltel. Right? Why? Because ... kevei'a makom. You're actually a person kovea makom. Says the Gemara, Rav Yochanan אמר ... ... doesn't קוראים מקום ... ... אמר ... Here's the Gemara. Says the Gemara, ... ... other kavei'a l'makom, and Shmuel ... says ... mutar l'taltel ... ... says the Gemara ... ... That's the ... My time ... my ... ... Okay? So, ... ... The Gemara goes through that the maskana of the Gemara is it's not talking about mukhmach l'issur. It's mukhmach l'acher, you might come to do it on Shabbos. The problem with the kli is the kli that you have to do, okay? That's muktzah. No, it's not. He kli biktanah, ami yad. Kli is in that. Yes, no, binyan. Okay. So the Gemara's problem was, what was the case of the nairus? This is kavei l'makom. What happened? He looks about the third case. The Gemara, by kiras chasan, you're also kavei l'makom. So then the Gemara takes the case. The Gemara says like this: if he carries it with one hand, here it comes. If he carries the nair with one hand, if he carries with one hand, obviously a person doesn't need a special place for it. Therefore, says the Gemara, it's not muktzah. I think if it has two hands, you have to carry it, it's already a chashuv of the nair, and therefore what happens? Kavei l'makom. If he carries it with one hand, two hands, you're going to put it in one place. Kavei l'makom. That's what the Gemara says.

It's something that you carry with one hand. If you carry with another minora already. If you carry with one hand, it's one minora. ... Please don't carry around like this, because one hand is one minora; two hands is ... second. A second, it means it's so big that you have to put it away somewhere. Okay. Okay. Says about the kilus chasanim is also very important. What the chasanim ... canopy. What's the ...? Says the Gemara, ... back in Daf ... Shabbos. Why? ... is nothing. What's the kasha? How can the Gemara come and say, ... there's a whole machlokes in the havamina of the Gemara. There's one man damar says mutar, one man damar says asur, and we're asking that man damar that says asur, what's the reason? But there's one shita that holds that it's mutar. That means ... There's nobody holds it's mutar. Kasha ... But here the kasha. The maskanah is nothing ... Rav Shimon. ... or l'maaseh the five times ... How can it be mutar? ... Okay, you got my Tosafos. ... This sugya ... it itself is a machlokes. The Gemara says according to the man damar, chayav. Why are you chayav? The first we thought ... ... says no, why are you chayav? Because ... But there's one man, but there's a stira. It says that even by the larger big one, it's still patur. And the Gemara says, how do we pasken? The Gemara says we pasken by the larger like this, like this. So Shmas says there's one sheetah in the whole, but even if it's kedei limakot, you're still patur. I, shechitah diri, and it says, hacha mai, even of Shimon. Wow. That's a good question. That's tight. No? Because the machlokes in the Gemara bichlal, what happens by the larger? One man says it's mutar unless it's not mutar. Says the machlokes, the man damar that it is mutar, why is it mutar? The Gemara gives either because, no, first the Gemara says because kedei limakot, and if it's mutar machsarnkis, the Gemara says no, can't do that, because it's chasan, right? So what the Gemara says, it's really which mutar? Machlokes, binyan, gezeirah, problem, minoya gidol. But on the havamina in the Gemara, we thought what's the reason? Because kedei limakot. So in that there was a machlokes, two shitos: is minoya gidol is patur or chayav? Is it asur or not asur? Kasher l'Razba, how could there ever be anybody who disagrees with that? Once it's kedei limakot, what happens? It's shechitah diri. The Gemara, me'achar limakot. This is the kasha of the Rashba. Still going to be mutar, right? Huh? He's asking from the Gemara. We see that it's still going to be mutar. Why do you have to... How could be machlokes? How could one man damar hold that it's minoya gidol is mutar, and how could hold him... This is tight. How do we work with this yeshiva on this tight? Who's the hacha limakot? Either option. Either option doesn't hold the mutar. How's it wrong, the pnei yeshua? He says, I don't use. What are you talking about? The only time, sichi the ziri becomes aser, because it's a keilim shemelachto l'issur that could turn into a muktzah machmas issurin kid. But a keli shemelachto l'heter can never turn into a muktzah machmas issurin kid. I guess. Only because it's muktzah machmas issurin kid, only because... says the Pnei Yehoshua, I won't use it for anything else, it remains a keli shemelachto l'issur. If it's a muktzah machmas issurin kid, what? A keli shemelachto l'issur. The heter — you were asking this question — it's muktzah machmas, but I would use this for this on Shabbos. Heter. Why can't I use it for what I want to use it for on Shabbos? So how do you make a question from heter to issur? So how can you be mera'aya from the nair, which we didn't know yet that's aser? We didn't have an issur in the nair yet. ... How can the nair be aser? ... a series of cases of muktzah l'issur. The nair is not ... l'issur. In the ... gemara, we don't know yet what the problem. Says the Pnei Yehoshua a big yesod, that the only time you have a muktzah machmas issurin kid is only on a keli shemelachto l'issur.

You know, but after, after, okay, when a muksam sorer kids come out, better be mutar for its tzorech. Right. Right. I mean, I have a... And that's a pasul. You'd ... date. What don't you understand? I got it. So it can be, it can be. A keli shemelachto l'issur you can turn into a muksam machmas chisaron kis. A regular keli shemelachto l'issur, you can never turn it. You want to waste it in the Rishonim? Date, ... That's the only part. What is a pnei Yehoshua? Tell me. It has to start with ... What's the heter? It has to start with ... There's light ... Have you shown me the Rishonim? Now, what do I want with this? I want to explain very well what's the taich muksam machmas chisaron kis. There's a beautiful Ramban in Daf Mem-Daled by a mita sheyesh aleha ... The sugya mita, ... right? ... says the Ramban, you know how it works? ... Mita sheyesh aleha ... You understand? He says the ... Okay. He says the ... thing. When it becomes a muksam machmas chisaron kis, then it becomes ... Think about it. For the tzorech aviv, you hear, you can't use it because it's ... Every keli shemelachto l'issur, could you use it? Yes, l'tzorech gufo v'mkomo, because that isn't keli. ... But you wouldn't use it for the tzorech heter. So that it turns into kli. That's why it's not mutar to serve it from the kli. How come every muktsah machmas issur is also assur from the kli? And the answer is, it's part of a keli shemelachto l'issur, correct? So it should be mutar l'tzorech gufo from the kli. Okay, that's the pshat. It's not a keli, because l'tzorech you can't use it. So tzorech gufo... Huh? Money. Give an example. Money, money. Every muktsah machmas issur, I can't use it for the thing itself, to stop on Shabbos, right? What happens when I don't use it for other things? If I don't use it for it, I don't use it for other things. You know what happens to the thing itself? It becomes a... Why for other things you can't use it? Because it's muktsah machmas issur. I would never use it. Muktsah. Muktsah. If my thing is expensive, it's not expensive though. Right, expensive, okay? You can't use it for it. But you can use it for it. So what about l'tzorech gufo from the kli? You don't use l'tzorech gufo from the kli either. No, I can move. I need a place. I'm saying that even kli shemelachto l'issur also you don't need tzorech gufo. No, you do need tzorech gufo. I want to use it for something else. That's not true. Every muktsah... Every muksah I use for something else. I want to use it for something else. But since I can't use this thing for something else that I wouldn't, and if it's purpose, I won't use it because it's issur, then it becomes a kli. Then you can apply kli shemelachto l'issur. What? What could you apply? Things you cannot use for yourself, you cannot use. Right, but I could use it to play baseball with. You use it to play baseball with. Correct. You’re not going to use it for... No, but I would. So it becomes a kli. Now, what do I have to do? I'm hoping for a rashi. Let's read the Rashi on the Mishnah. What's by machzir? What does Rashi say? Kapra layu, u'miyachlu l'makom. Go ahead, Nu, what does Rashi say? Wait a second. Last line. Kapra layu. Dehanach kapit alaihu u'miyachad lahem makom, delo chazu, delo acha acheres. Why did he just say? He's masking to something. U'miyachlu l'makom. The me'ah lo chazu u'makom acheres. It's not a kli. What does Rashi... It is. This is... That's chashuv. It's not the same as... It's not the same as... He doesn't assume... ... chazi u'makom acheres. למה? What happens? It's not called a kli. ... over here when you're makpid to be a dayan, the problem is not that it's not a kli. It's a special thing that you're makpid to be a dayan. That tzricha l'zirus is a special thing too. That's pshat.

Okay. ... Okay, let's go. Too much ... too much ... Three ... works. Let's say, you put money on it. There's a very common ... In itself, you can't use it. It's a keli shemelachto l'issur. If there's money on it, if you're ... for money, you made your couch into a pocketbook. It's a keli shemelachto l'issur, and you wouldn't use it for anything else because you're ... Then the Ramban is not a kli. ... If someone asks you, what's your ...? If you turn around the answer because it's ... it's a special ... you know what you're talking about. You mamish קוק אויף גמרא, and it has nothing to do with that. You know what it is? What's ...? It's not a kli anymore. It's like a stone. It has no purpose on Shabbos. ... you can't use it because it's ... ... you can't use it because you wouldn't use it. It's not a kli. That's the Ramban, okay? I'm telling you it's the first ... When actually ... just come and say it's expensive, and people ...? No. What does actually add? ... You can't do it. Why? You can't. You can't, A, use it for issur, and you can't use it ... Where? Huh? Where? By maaser, by the case of the sword. No, by maaser, in ... l'mishnah. And the Mishnah says, ... So Rashi explains: You're ... ולא יחרזי ... What does it mean, ולא יחרזי? You're not going to use a ... No, no, no, no, no. Since you're not going to use a ... now we look at it as a ... What do you mean, ...? Means that since you wouldn't use it, so now it's not a thing which is ראוי ל...; it's not a kli. That's what he means. Right. ... No? ... Out. ... Out. ... On top of all that, it's not a question that the thing is not a kli, but what is it? ... That's why Rashi and Tosafos argue in what the chisaron is. Rashi learns שלא יתקלקל, while the Rashi learns that what—and Tosafos learns that what is it? The kilkul of the thing itself. Right. Because Tosafos learns that the chisaron is the regular ... You don't have a special din of ... So what's the problem? ... Right. That's what Tosafos means. I can't use this for anything. It's not a kli. I can't use it for it. It's not learning this special ... Right, because Tosafos learns ... No, but he didn't learn this Rashi ... a special din. So therefore he learns what's the chisaron? I can't use it for any melachos, because I'm ... I can't use it for this, I can't. But then, Rashi learns a special din of ... Rashi has to come and say, forget about melachah now. Forget about it; it's not a kli. It is a kli. Forget about that. But what's ... walk me through it itself, because I don't want you to slap it. I don't want to get dirty. Tosafos learns in shimush, it has no shimush. Tosafos learns it itself, it has no shimush. You know why? Because if I ever use it with a melachah acheres, I'm ruining it. It's not a kli. It's not a kli. It's not a kli. You know what? There's a special sevara here, l'yachid. Why? What's the special sevara l'yachid? To get about shimush. There's a special thing, I don't want to get dirty. I don't want to get dirty. It's a special thing I have to hit. You understand? It's a kli, and therefore I'm coming to— I'm trying to say, if I had, it's not a kli anyway. But to give it a special chumra, even Reb Shimon's modeh to it, that there's a din of muktzah because I don't want to be careless with it. It has nothing to do with the shem kli. It has nothing to do with the shem— Let me tell you, how do you expect to understand? I never learned in Gemara like that. I'm telling you, I'm not saying— you know, he knows all the machlokes. Very nice. He knows Shabbos says this, that. Even in matzlima, it's like mechamas chisaron kis. Who says not? But it says like Rashi. Look at Rashi. Rashi says even more. Rashi is not only ... chisaron kis. It's ... tohu shelo. You want to write that? You want to write ...

That's a regular muktzah. That's a more regular muktzah, I'm sorry. Plus, plus. And that's why in this sugya Rashi explains the pshat: you're ruining the shimush of it. Meaning, it doesn't include, you can't use it. You're not using it; you're just using it. You're afraid to make it dirty. You're afraid to make it dirty. That's a new type of muktzah, muktzah machmas issur, and there's, that's ... You're like taking a muktzah. It's adding to the muktzah that even Rav Shimon would be. Hacha mai? There's a special sugya called hacha mai ... Maybe not. And there's special muktzah again, right? Special problem here. Who? Who? ... You're poshut. ... You're learning a piece of Gemara. You want to learn ... piece. If you learned a piece of Gemara today, that's called ... Okay, whatever you call it, that's what it is. Tomorrow ... tomorrow ... clean, the Ramban, ... I thank you here. This is sugya. Forget about tashmishim. We're not talking about tashmishim. I want to be careful. Careful ... That's why the ... come and learn here. ... ... ... ... From the Torah ... we don't pass ... It's the te'einah. How do you say? Paga. Sorry, excuse me. Paga. Okay, I say paga means just paga, no problem. Unripe. Unripe is fig. Okay, te'einah shelo bishla kol tzorkah, it's not ripe. So what do you do? You take the teven, lehis bashel, and they used to put it inside the teven, inside the straw. Why? In order it should become ripe. Since it's not ripe, so they put it in the teven and they hope that the teven is going to make it ripe. Says the Gemara, you hear? Yeah. The teven mutar. Rashi says, Pago, te'einah shelo bishla kol tzorkah, v'tomnin b'teven li'vashel. The teven mutar, kava l'tit. The teven, what's the problem with teven? Teven is mutar. Why is it mutar? Because there's no purpose for it, only l'tit. Tit means—yeah, Michael, but he doesn't say that. He says it's mutar l'tit. What they usually do with teven, they make from it mortar. Very good, they make mortar from it, you know, the English spell. Boruch, I think he'll teach me. They make from it tit, and since they make tit from it, so it becomes mutar. Which mutar would you call it? Maybe lach, maybe. Maybe lach, maybe. No purpose for it, only l'tit. Okay, whichever one. Rashi says that it's mutar. Why is it mutar? Michael, because it's made for the tit only. It's made—so let's see, let's see, let's see soon. You're using it for the fig. You're taking a fig which was not bishla, and you're putting it into the teven. Explain to me, he hid it. Hatmanah, hatmanah, he hid it? Okay. So let's see now the halacha. Let's see the halacha, and then we'll see that ... So, Tanu Rabbanan: paga, a fig that was never mishtapeil, shetamnah b'teven, he went and he put it, hatmanah, he hid it inside of teven. Yes. The chararah shetimnah b'gechalim, and a cookie that he hid it where? Inside coals. Again, also, chararah, it's a cookie or something, okay? So he hid it where? He hid it inside gechalim. What's the halacha? In both cases, im meguleh miktzasah, mutar l'taltelah. If it's a little bit open, the teven, and the makom of the gechalim, you have a little bit of an open space, then the halacha is you're allowed to take the cake. Let me explain to you what the problem is. The teven is muktzah. And the gechalim are muktzah. You're trying to take the chararah or the paga from the teven and the sticks. So what's the problem? I'm not allowed to move the teven. If it's meguleh miktzas...

Isn't it ... in the teivah? Correct. The only way, the only way that a person could get to ... Right. Therefore, so therefore it's not called like you're moving the teivah anymore. Say little, says Rashi. It's so moving that we don't even call it moving. Open. The guf, but a bit, we're completely ... but we're not moving. So it'll be closed, it'll be a problem. And the question is why. Machlokes Rishonim. The Rashi learns, Rashi learns — let's see the Rashi — Ya, Ya, simchah. Rabbeinu simchah, I come special for you. Today is your day. Anything you ask me, I'm going to answer you. What do you want to know? Patach. You have this fig. It is not muktzah, but this teven is muktzah. Chararah, it is not muktzah, but the chalimah is muktzah. A cookie, a cake, a cracker. Why put it in there? Get cooked up on Shabbos. Before Shabbos. Before Shabbos. Now you want to take it out on Shabbos. The problem is chalimah muktzah. The problem is the teven is muktzah. That's the Gemara אומר. If it's a little bit open, the teven or the ... so then you're allowed to move it. Why? You're not moving. Look at Rashi. This is the Rashi. Yes, because you're moving. You're moving it. So what's the problem? So look at Rashi. Yes. Correct. Because a person ... No, you've got one. You want it. You want it on Shabbos. Okay, you want. You knew it needed one more day. You need it one more day. Wait for you. You wait. You want it one more day to become okay. So look at Rashi. There's Rashi: im megulah mitztata, sheyachol leochza b'makom hameguleh. You're able to hold on to the fagah or the charanan from the open place. Afilu tiltul min hatzad. It's not even tiltul min hatzad; it's less than tiltul min hatzad. When do we say tiltul min hatzad? Let me explain tiltul min hatzad. When you want to pick the tzad. Let me show you. Is this muktzah? Sure. On my note, muktzah, I hope not. No. Hopefully not muktzah machmas mius, right? Okay. Now, what happens is I move this. But it's so dirty. You move it, we have to deal with this? Allowed or not allowed? That's called tiltul min hatzad. That's so cool. So in other words, so that's permissible. Oh, that's permissible, but from Rashi's mashma that it's not so simple, because Rashi's saying that in this case, you know why it's mutar? Because it's not tiltul min hatzad. Maybe. Rashi says it's not even tiltul min hatzad. Not even. Less than that. Yes, but it could be even. It would be mutar not one hundred percent. But why is it less than tiltul? Because it's not even tiltul. Since the place is open here. Let me show you like this. You ready? You ready? You call this tiltul min hatzad? No. Because it's hardly—nothing really is, right? It's open. It's not completely open, almost open. But before, in your first example, it was under. Isn't that somewhat open? It's not completely— I gave you an example of this, but here you're talking about a case where the earth... For the teven, won't have to really. You see, the case I gave you is open, I understand, but I just try to explain it with something on the side. That makes sense. The application here is that since the makom hateven is a little bit open, ... That's not. Okay? It's a little bit. Right, you're not, that's the same. ... It's open. You're just grabbing it and pulling it out. So you might be moving a little bit, you might be moving a little bit. That's not much. It's not much. It's not enough to define it ... That's why Rashi says, mutar. It's mutar. Continue the Rashi. ... My simcha, you have it? I'm calling you my simcha today, your day today. No, you have it? ... The teven is ... I don't really ... I'm not being ... It's like falling away. Here, like this, here. Here. You ready? You ready? Move a little bit, but ...

What? ... It's open Rashi. I think it's you. It's open Rashi. Yeah. You look like him. You don't have to use the ... Yeah, yeah. Without him. I'm not sure this doesn't mean you, though. I'm not sure. It's exactly what it says. I'm not sure. So far, so good? So far, good? Not good? Okay, so let's take out the Rav and the ... Right. If the Shma is just falls away, but it's not ... The Shma's gonna fail. Let's take a look. Okay, go ahead. Small little piece of Rav, b'shem HaRav Reb Aharon. Did you ever see a Rishon called HaRav Reb Aharon? Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you a nice thing. It's a very nice thing. I knew it's not me, right? It's good to hear the word HaRav Reb Aharon. It makes you feel good, right? The Chaim Shmulevitz once said a ... concern. Chaim Shmulevitz once said that he told the Mir Rosh Yeshiva, who was father-in-law, a svara in the Gemara. Came to the shiur, the Rosh Yeshiva said a shiur, and he was saying, Reb Chaim to'en zeh, Reb Chaim amar kacha, Reb Chaim tover zeh. He wasn't referring to this, by the way. He was referring to Reb Chaim Soloveitchik, Reb Chaim Brisker. Omer Reb Chaim davar nifla. HaRav lo hiskaven, Reb Chaim Soloveitchik Shmulevitz. Hatalmidim chashvu Reb Chaim Brisker, lo chashvu bichlal. Reb Chaim Soloveitchik. Aval ani chashavti. The Chaim said that the Gerer Rebbe meant Chaimbrisk. The talmidim didn't even think he meant Reb Chaim Brisk. I was, ואני עשיתי שמה, חשבתי, yeah, Chaim. Yes, ... Right. That was the greatness of Chaim Shulevitz. To be able to address, like the kelim, the story of kelim I told you. You know what I really thought when the sefer was burning down? I thought, I wish I can go to the—oh, you weren't here, I didn't tell you this story. Are you here the night of Wednesday? I wish that the whole Talmud Torah was burned down. ... Why? That's truth. A person knows the truth. Chaim said, ... אל תסכבן עליי, ... Chaim. Chaim, man. Chaim, man. Thanking over here to our Rav ... but don't worry, when I come here they break, they bust it down. Huh? Do we have the small ones? Do we have the other ones? Okay. In Muktzah there's something called basis. You had—come on, you looked at ... You had ... You had ... You had ... You want to know something? That's proof for the shittah of the Tanna Kama, that you know why it's asur? It's asur because it becomes a basis davar asur. Rashi learns the sugya in the sugya of muktzah. Tosafos Rid will soon see, learns like him. Mamash like him. This guy and Tosafos Rid are buddy-buddy. They say the same thing. Okay, you have to find me the other rod that I have. The small piece one. Do you have the blue one? Do you care about this? You put it there. If you put the bag there. Why you put it? Yes, it is. I put my money. Yeah, yeah, I found it. You have the rod that's the little one. That's mine. You know what? From now on, you're the rod, because I have what you have. I have your rod. I don't have... I know, but this is what... Okay. ... This ... ... Tell ...

You have your thirty days in someone. ... I don't say that other people would say ... Walk up and you're like that. Notice carefully. Thirty days, guaranteed. ... your money back. Your money back. Now listen carefully. Here, listen to this. Rashi says that when it's open, it's not even called ... If it's closed, it would be ... And see, so that Rashi's learning the sheetah of the Tana Kama, the ... is ... I mean, closed. How is taken out? Closed. Closed ... That's the halacha. And the reason why it's aser is the ... according to this Tanna, this Tanna. This Tanna. What does it say? Tanna ... Tanna, the Tanna Kama. Okay? Comes along the Ran, and the Ran says, No, no, no, no, no, no. You know why it's mutar to pull out even if it's open? Because it is ... ... you're allowed to ... It is not ... So then why by mechusar ... it's also type of ... that becomes batel to the teven, meaning since it's completely ... to the teven, so inside also becomes batel. For example, if let's say you have a radio. Is the radio ...? Is rubber ...? Rubber is by the radio. ... covered from all over, it becomes a chelek of the teven. That's the shita of... What? ...it's open. Again, the Gemara says, when it's open, you'll be allowed to take. Yeah, you'll be allowed to take it. Yeah, you'll be allowed to take it. Unless, here's a little bit different maybe, because l'chatchila it became batel to the radio, maybe it's still part of the radio. The answer is one line, two cases, right? Why? Because it says if it's open, means open, then it's closed. Okay, one line, two cases. One of the two cases: you put the pag in, it's open, it's mutar. You put the pag in, it's closed, it's asur. When you read the Rashi, why is it mutar and asur? When it's open, it's mutar because it's not even... Why is it asur when it's closed? Because it is... That's Rashi. Who says this? Rashi. No, Rebbi is medayek. That's not true. He brings it down. That's how you have to learn the Rashi, because he says clearly, point to Rashi, when it's... under the fact that Rashi says it's... That's right. That's what he's arguing on. I'm telling you, because Rashi would hold that it would be... That's what he's saying, because the heter, according to the Rashi, the reason why it's mutar is because it is... from Rashi, not... that way. From Rashi, the heter is... because... When it's closed, then it becomes not even... Sorry, when it's open, that's the reason why it's mutar, is because it is... When it's covered, why is it ...? Exactly. Lash makes ... That's not ... Everybody agrees. The why by mechutz l'mechitzah, that's halacha becomes part of the ... It becomes part of the ... That's the Ran. But how Ran learns, open ... It's open. Everybody agrees. Still, look at the lashon of Rashi. Nishmat means ... Rashi says ... That's what ... So Rashi defeats ... and everybody agrees. Exactly. They both hold ... The question now is what's the ... Right? But Rashi says ... It is ... It is ... Exactly. This is what ... Both hold the ... The question is why. According to Rashi, it's ... Everybody agrees on this. I'm not saying everybody. It's ... where I pick it up, al yedei ... And there's ... when it's nishmat, al yedei ... According to Rashi, or you could say there's ... or you take ... Maybe there's two. For the first case, and according to the Ran, even the first ...

And the second, the special halachah by nechusah becomes ... You are becoming a ... How long are you ...? Rashi says, nishmat and magbiah. When you pick it up, that's called tolto min הצד. When it moves the meilah, then we’re going to call that what? That’s called not even tolto min הצד. That’s not even called ... Right. That’s less. So one second. Let me just show you the next line in the Gemara, and we’ll see how it is פשוט. Like, it’s very, very simple. Open and closed. Those are two cases, one line, two cases. The Gemara talks about when it’s open. Open, mutar; machlokes closes. Question is why. Rashi learns open is not even called tolto min הצד. Why? Because it’s nishmat. The muktzeh that’s being moved is being ... Right, memeila. It slips from the side. Mashenkein tolto min הצד has to be when you’re magbiah. You pick it up, and that’s when it’s closed. Closed, you’re picking up mamash the ... you’re moving it, moving and picking up. Now, slowly, slowly, slowly. This is Rashi. Good? When it’s open, it’s mutar. When it’s closed, ... Why? Rashi, Rashi. But there’s a type that’s mutar when it’s nishmat. When it’s nishmat, then ... And that’s what Rashi says. That’s what Rashi says. How do you know that tzistos is not? It says this is mutar because it's not even ... It doesn't say that. Rebbe's adding that. Why does it say ...? Why can't you carry it? ... How do we see they forgot about the fact? If you maphia, then it's a problem. No, it must be. It's not a problem. According to Rashi, it's not ... Let's see the next line in the Gemara. Let's see how the Gemara follows. Says the Gemara, ... Tadoi. You ever hear of Tadoi? Tadoi oimer, if it's closed ... Why? It's a special halacha. I'll tell you the truth. According to the Ran, it's much better. You know why? According to the Ran, it's a special halacha. It's not zeh gorem l'zeh. According to Rashi, it's zeh gorem l'zeh. When it's kiltul that you're picking it up, it's asur and you're just moving it as mutar, so that's pretty much the first halacha, the ... But according to the Ran, it's two separate halachos. Since it becomes batel, it's a new halacha, it's two different halachos. One is tiltul מן הצד is mutar, and one is when it's batel it becomes batel. So you see it's two different halachos. You really have two separate halachos. Mashenkein according to Rashi, it's really the same halacha. It's two sides of the coin. He wants to ... both sides of the coin, okay? Either yeah or not. Okay, fine. Okay, let's move on. We have very little time here. Says the Gemara, says the Gemara, ... תוחבין בקוש או בקרקר. Does anybody know what a kush is or a karkar? Type of stick. I don't know. Type of stick. Good. Very nice picture. Shwama, there you go. No, not shwarma. Good. Says the Gemara, תוחבין בקוש או בקרקר.

The heim minaros ya'aleh. Rabbi? Yes? Okay, you stick it in, and the heim minaros ya'aleh, and they can move by themselves. The heim minaros ya'aleh, they can move by themselves. Oh. They move by themselves. Oh, oh, oh, oh. All right, let me ask you a kasha. First of all, is Reb Eliezer ben Tzadok arguing on the Tanna Kamma? Obviously he's arguing, otherwise it wouldn't be in this Gemara. We stop. You don't say this and I say that. Obviously, the way it's written in the Gemara, he's arguing, right? So what's he arguing about? For some reason, I don't know why. Because in the wording of our— it would be, Amar this or removed with this one, Amar, depending on the Amar, right? Afterwards, when that says afterwards... Yes, they're very... and style. I don't know about JTS. Okay, so listen carefully. Stop. Yes. Come, listen carefully. Come. Yes. Come, let's see Gemara. The question is to say arguing. Yeah, we know somebody. Wait a second. The first of all— How did you explain to me what the argument is about? I'll tell you. I can tell you like this. I'll tell you. Once with the hands, that's stairs. Once with the hands. Again, again. Once with the hands. That's, and this is the ... with the stick. No. ... Yeah. No. First ... puts the hands. ... because you want to be ... you can only be ... with something else. That's ... If you move with your hand, you gotta move with the stick. Now the question. Let's see carefully. ... The ... is going back on the cookie, and the ... or is going ... The ... the ... and the ... together will be moved, and the ... together with the ... will be moved. Again. There's two ways to learn the Gemara. First, you can say ... is not arguing. ... is arguing. ... he's arguing. He's saying, like, if I move with the hand, that's not called ... You want to know something? That could be awesome to ... I can't say that's ... So the stick, and you start to move it all, then that's okay. How do I know the ... is okay? How do I know he says it's okay? I'm sorry? ... I'm sorry. ... arguing, and he's saying that ... is ... What's the ... of the Gemara? The Gemara is saying... Either the heim could be going back on both cases, and it's talking about the tehei cookie and the paga, or it's going about in each case gufa. Heim, the paga together with the teven. If I'm moving the dover hamutar with a stick and I yadeh there, taika. Halara, come here. Halara. But they're working on the heim by themselves, on top of it. No, me'aleihem means by themselves, me'aleihem, they move by themselves. Either we're referring to one that you're moving the paga and the chararah, or the pshat is you're moving the teven and the thing with the paga, and then it's... is תלש מן הצד, that the mutar being moved with the dover hamutar. Again, when we said it's mutar with a stick, what's mutar with a stick?

To move the paga, right, or ... okay, and this, that everything else moves. Who cares? ... All what the pshat is, you're allowed to move directly the muktsa with the stick. ... With the stick. ... There's a machlokes Rishonim on this: does that be considered or not? Again, does tiltul min הצד remain the same, just as a special halacha that we don't ...? Or tiltul min הצד changes the whole ...? Tiltul min הצד means with a stick directly to the muktsa. The first case was I move the muktsa with the non-muktsa, right? Says the first man d'amar that's mutar, right? Says the second man d'amar, no, it has to be done through a stick. But it's still the same thing, that the muktsa is moving, the non-muktsa is moving the muktsa. I think it's not through your hand, it's through a stick. Or there's a new pshat now: you're allowed to take the stick directly and move the non-muktsa. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't mean with the hand you're the muktsa. I don't mean to go directly, but once I'm trying to get to the paga, I can move the ... only with the stick. Oh, he's thinking already. And then there's a shayla between the Taz and the Chazon Ish, if even in the case of ... even in the case where he's using the stick, is there a difference if it's ... or not? Maybe we're falling away from ... Or is open. Because if you can move the mukצה, then you can move the muktzah. So maybe the open is just at place is open. Maybe I'm staying in, I'm moving the paka, I'm trying to get it out, and agav I'm already moving, but it happens in the chutz, it's open. Or maybe, no, it could be closed. The Taz comes along and says it's still has to be open. Says the Chazon Ish, not true. Yeah. Where is positing like... Ready? I'm scaring you. This is deep. This is pashut pshat. This is mamash... just placing it apart. You never be able to figure this out. What should I do? What should I do? That's what the Gemara says. Now you see the options. Once I read it for you, the Gemara says. Sure, because the Taz, it's pashut. You read the Rishonim. Rishonim are saying, and then the Taz, and then the Mishnah Berurah is saying. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. Option number one is first, maybe Reb Eliezer is not talking about another case, but obviously it's not. Reb Eliezer argues. Fine. Now, where Reb Eliezer argues, what's he arguing on? Does he go back to the original case where the mukצה is being moved by the non-muktzah, and there he still says this halacha that you got to go and do with the stick? That's case number one. Or he means to directly move the mukצה to get to the paka. Or he's taking out this book of fruit, he's just throwing the book at you. He has to. It should work. It's not. I didn't make this stuff up. You lost? What? Good. Now listen carefully, yeah? Watch one way to move. One way to learn is, it goes back on the original case. Original case is what? That he's moving the muktzah with the non-muktzah. He's moving the non-muktzah. No, he's moving the muktzah. He's moving the muktzah through the non-muktzah. Yes, through the non-muktzah, he moves them regular, and that moves the muktzah. Yeah? Good. That is another case where we can say... But from Rabbeinu, see, still more, right? Rabbeinu says only with your hand. Rabbeinu says even with... Magmir. No, only do it with a stick. No. Take it out. So only your hand, you can use your hand, not a pan. You can use a stick. You can only use a stick. No. No. No. No. Listen, move the muktzah, and that is through the non-muktzah. You know what? If it's allowed with your hand, what do you do?

I don't need a hole. You don't need to move the ... The fact that I use a stick, that itself makes it an atzad. So therefore I don't, A, need to move the ... or even if I do have to, why do I need a hole over there? That's the question. That's the question. That's the ... The second answer. The second answer. We could do now. We could either go a little further, or we can look it up inside. Which, how do you want to do this? You want to see it a little bit inside, or we can go a little further? Inside? Okay, inside. So the Ran I showed you, right? The Ritva. Let's see now a little Ritva now. The Ritva, please. Here it is. The first piece. Now I just want one sugya you have to know. The Gemara continues with one more line. Amar Rav Nachman, halacha k'Reb Eliezer ben Tadai. Obviously what? Reb Eliezer ben Tadai, obviously. But obviously, okay. So that's the Ritva. Takes over the Ritva now. Says the Ritva. What's with Tanakama? We don't know if Tanakama could be anyone. You don't know who this Tanakama could be, any Tanna. And Reb Eliezer Tzedoi could have been bigger or not bigger. That's not the reason why we pasken halacha. We don't pasken necessarily because a person is bigger. It's raayot; they had to prove. It doesn't work because you have a white beard, you can win over a guy with a black beard. Then I lost. Every time I argued with him, he wins. So what? If it's from hachinai. It's understood because he was big. Because he sat over Har Sinai. Okay, continue. Go ahead, Nu. ... Rav Nachman ... ... עד כאן. ... Why? Well, there's a whole shaila how we pasken, right? What about according to the Rabbanan? So read for them again. I'm not being able to capture. Right. Because the Gemara continues. I mean, Gemara wants to know that Rav Nachman, who holds Reb Eliezer metzadoi, matol tufa min hatzad, lo shmei tufa, right? I'm sorry, the opposite. ... lo shmei tufa, and it's mashma he holds that it is os. Mashma that it is os. So then the Tanna Kama obviously must hold... You know what, I think I'm getting scared I made a mistake here for one reason, because I think we're going to lose a chesed in the Gemara. So I wait. You know what, let's wait for this Ritva to the end of the Gemara, okay? You know what, because you have to know the next two lines of the Gemara also. Okay, let's just... This Ritva is like the Ran. You know what the Ran, what he does? He proves it from the chesed of the Gemara. You know what, I'll tell you quickly just for those that said one here. The Gemara is like this: Reb Lech, we pasken like Reb Lech ben Tzadok, who says from Nachman. Says the Gemara from Nachman, there's a single... they keep on closing, I don't know what. Okay, comes Reb Nachman, and Reb Nachman says the halacha is like Reb Lech ben Tzadok. That's what. That we pasken only b'karka, b'karka is mutar, only b'karka, b'karka is mutar, only with this stick is it mutar. Maskif, there's no stick. I, why not? L'maaseh, tiltul min hatzad, says the Gemara, and don't you hold tiltul min hatzad is... And the Gemara proves Reb Nachman, that tiltul min hatzad is mutar. So how can you turn around and pasken like Reb Lech ben Tzadok? Oh, but according to Reb Nachman, tiltul min hatzad is with a stick, like Reb... I'm telling you, but the regular tiltul min hatzad is taka asur. I, Reb Nachman says it's mutar, because...

That's a machlokes, b'lezer v'Tzedok. That, first kasha: how can you come and say that it's not Tzricha Gemara? There's a case where you see clearly you're allowed to do it, where you yourself did it. Says the Gemara, Nachlu is chozer. Nachlu changes mind. So then what do you see from this? That the original man d'amar, meaning the one who answered Reb Eliezer ben Tzadok, what does he hold about tiltul min hatzad? It is mutar. Nachum Rashi says it's not even tiltul min hatzad; that's how he argues on Rashi. That's how the Ritva comes and says you see that the Ran and Rabbeinu is right, not like Rashi, because of a cheshbon in the Gemara. No, that's not even a regular normal tiltul, because normal tiltul min hatzad, you're here and still... maybe what you see is—okay, I know it's beautiful, don't think you have to know the whole Gemara for it. I'll tell you what, you know what? Simple reading Gemara. Today is Simchas... I'm sorry, today, you know, today, l'havdil, it's Puerto Rican Day today. Today is Simcha day, okay? היום הוא יום שמחה, גיי. You have to make sense. This is a real kashya zama against Rashi. You have to work it out. You have to work it out, slow, yeah? Oh, ma she'halochah is like who? Like Reb Eliezer ben Tzadok. Good, nice, right? Very good, good. Says the Gemara, oh, is that true? Because you pasken like Reb Eliezer ben Tzadok. He says, mashma that tiltul min hatzad, lo shmei tiltul, because he's not letting you do with your hands. No. Tiltul min hatzad—does he really, l'maaseh, somenach tiltul min hatzad lo shmei tiltul? Iva omar Rav Nachman, hai pugla l'ma'alah, mata shoin; mata l'matah, oser. So how can you even pasken? Yeah, so how can you even pasken? Yeah. Good. What's the Gemara answer? Rav Nachman is chozer, which means a blezah ben Tzadok is a case of tiltel min hatzad. Right. No, it's still very good. Read the Ritva. Okay, let the first get to Gemara. Read the Gemara. ... No, ask him the question. The meimer, there is tiltel b'tzad. No, like the Gemara says like this: there's two cases. You have a case where you put this pugla — Rashi says it's snon talush, it's a radish which was separated from its root — and you put it into the ground, and l'maaseh the top of it is still sticking out a little bit. That's how they do it with the radishes, right? Yeah, shulchan aruch. Okay, it says like this. So, l'maalah l'matah shari, which means, says Rashi, im hayah ha'elyon shelo l'maalah, if the top of it, the top of its snon is on top, v'hakotzel l'matah, and the thinner part of its snon is down, hu k'shulfo, choltzo me'elyon shelo l'tachton. So it comes out that when you're taking it out, how are you taking it? From the thicker part. Right, then it goes to the third part. The leket will be mutar, because in this gala roisei, it's already open. You have already a thick opening. Since the top part is already out, when you're pulling out, the offer is not moving anywhere. You don't have to move. Yeah, this is a thin part and this is a thick part, right? I stuck it into the ground. When I pick it up, since this is only thin, and I need makom meshulashik, as I pick it up, I'm moving the dirt. That's asur. No, but the case you had is the opposite. Here it's open. As I'm pulling, I didn't move any offer. The hole never got bigger. I don't have to move any offer. No, the other way to pshat here, like this: the earth is around it. As I pick it up, it has to open. It has to—I'm moving offer. Says the Gemara, therefore, mimatah l'maalah, from the small part to the thick part, then it'll be asur. Shmayza says, Rashi, go ahead. Who wants to read? Shmayza offer. Who wants to read? Go ahead, you, Tzadik, go ahead.

Rav ... אמר, אינו מטמא. ... מה משביעתה? He's not mamash holding you with his hands. So what do we see? ... says the Gemara. ... Nachman ... Nachman changes mind. Nachman changes mind. Yeah. Why? How is it different? Why? If you want to make in it, what difference do you want to make? So maybe what difference do you want to make? It's tilted, not the tilt. It's not the tilt. It's not the tilt. Holding with his hands. ... If you get ... retract, you want to do. Retract. He says, ... even though that it is a ... it's ... Which case? ... Just read it. Even though that it is ... it's ... What difference? ... What's this? I mean, ... should make no difference. Okay, so let me tell you. Read the Ritva now. I don't have time. I don't see a difference. Let's just read the Ritva. Let me show you the Tosafos's read, and then we'll see a little bit for tomorrow, just get prepared for tomorrow. You ready? You ready? You with me? Let's move. Let's see the Ritva. Go ahead. Now read, read, read, read, read. ולכאורה, מינה אמינא, אמר רב נחמן, הלכה כרבי ... דאמינא למימרא דסבר רב נחמן דלתול מן הצד לא שמיה טלטול? דהא משום דפסקי, אבל האי סברי לה, אחי: הא לרבנן, לא קרי טלטול מן הצד. So smashu that according to the Rabbanan, it's not even called tiltul min hatzad, right? According to Rabbanan, it's not even called. Reb Lezer's case is called tiltul min hatzad. Why? Because Reb Nachman would pasken like Reb Lezer, not like the Rabbanan, hold that Reb Lezer is saying worse. The answer is, Reb Lezer is talking about a case of tiltul min hatzad, so what's the Rabbanan talking about? Not even a case of tiltul min hatzad. You see the difference? In other words, it's very simple. The Gemara himself, here's simches reish. You know how you say, say like a lavud, omer li, tells me that it's Reb Lezer than todoi that says tiltul min hatzad more. I hold the Rabbanan also matir, but they're not called tiltul min hatzad. ... lo shmei tiltul. Says the Gemara, we chozer from that. No. Yes. ... The Gemara, what do you think? You hold like me, saying that you don't hold of tiltul min hatzad? ... The question is, no, it's not tiltul, because ... from it. According to Rabbanan, tiltul min hatzad, that is a tiltul. When the Gemara says that Reb Lezer ben Tzadok argues with the Chachamim, right, on the Tanakama, and Reb Nachman innocently says, you know, I like Reb Lezer ben Tzadok. Nachman, how dare you say you pasken like Reb Lezer ben Tzadok? Why? You yourself hold tiltul min hatzad is not a heter, right? It's asur. So how could you pasken like Reb Lezer ben Tzadok, right? That's the question. Exactly. Gemara, he changes his mind. That's what the Gemara says, meaning he changes his mind from the case of the radish, which means tiltul min hatzad is taka mutar. What do the Rabbanan hold? Oh, because if Reb Lezer is saying tiltul min hatzad mutar, and this is a case of tiltul min hatzad, so then what do the Rabbanan hold? Tanakama. Rabbanan means Tanakama. According to Reb Lezer ben Tzadok, according to Reb Lezer ben Tzadok, when the Gemara says Reb Lezer ben Tzadok says it's mutar with a stick, says the Gemara...

That two tzvachim min ha-tzad. Mashma that the Rabbanan disagree. What do they hold? Because they hold two tefachim min ha-tzad is pasul. Asur. So why are they matir with the hands? ... left. That's ... And this question is the Rabbanan hold the same. ... min ha-tzad, right? But the whole reason is it took from the tzad is mutar. In this point, therefore it could be even when it's ... All right. Even ... What is it? Huh? Explain again. It's very, very simple, okay? ... You'll be here tomorrow? ... That's right. You have life insurance, you have fire insurance, you have health insurance. ... Listen carefully. ... The whole ... come to come. Yeah, listen carefully. Ready? ... comes along and says, Rashi, where did Rashi get what he got? Where did it come from? Where did Rashi pick up that the Rabbanan hold two tefachim min ha-tzad is pasul? And the reason why it's mutar by the case that they bring is because it's not even two tefachim min ha-tzad. Where did they know that from? He says, you know why? Because Rashi read this Gemara. The shakla v'tarya of the Gemara is mochiach. Proof. How does it prove it? Since the Gemara brings Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok in our case on the Tana Kama, and then the Gemara brings Rav Nachman ... Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok, yehei kaika. And then the Gemara brings what? That how could you come and say that Rav Nachman holds ... until ... and he brings a case of what? Where he paskens says it's aser. The Gemara says he's chozer, which means he really holds ... and that's why he paskens like who? Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok. Which means that the Tana Kama who argues with Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok must hold ... Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok holds ... Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok holds ... So the Tana Kama, who Rabbi Eliezer ben Tzadok argues on, must hold ... And then how come it's mutar when it's open? ... If this is true, so this is true, that according to Rabbi Eliezer, doesn't it beautiful, right? Doesn't have to be open. No, because ... is mutar. But whatever it is, it's all mutar. Whatever they say aser, that's where it's mutar. It doesn't have to be open, because even if it's ... it's mutar. Now let's see the second. What is the Tana ... Hold on, even in the ... that you have to have it open. There's no shailah about open, not open. You have to have it open. So let's see, let's see. Aval ein loimar kein. Says the Ritva, this Rashi, you know what, Rashi, I don't agree with you. I hold, you can learn the whole shakla v'tarya, you learn not like you. I can learn not like you. Divadei afilu ta'amei kama, teluyin min hatzad ika. Even according to the ta'amei kama, there is a problem. There is a sugya called teluyin min hatzad. Kivan shema'aris hagechalim v'hateven k'shenoitel b'makom hamegulah. It's still called a teluyin min hatzad, even if it's open. Ked'amrinan perek Kirah, it brings a case, ... the whole story here. Now, gam hadavar pashut hu me'atzmo. And he says not only that, it's sevara, it makes sense, the afilu ta'amei kama, teluyin min hatzad ika. No, no, let me say, there is such a thing called teluyin min hatzad. No, no, no, wait, wait. V'ha d'ba'i ta'amei kama megulah miktzasa, why does ta'amei kama need megulah miktzasa? Mishum d'sfira lei d'keivan d'eino nir'eh klal, nasla v'tolah, d'toch hagechalim d'ran, right? Meaning that it has to— meaning there is a sugya called teluyin min hatzad, which is mutar, and the reason why we hold by mechusah...

Who the Rav? Malach l'mikvah. Huh? No, you see Rashi אומר. Rashi אומר, he says ... Really, there is Tosefos even according to the Tanna Kamma, and that's why it's mutar by neguah. Then how do you read the next machlokes? Comes along Reb Eliezer, and what's Reb Eliezer בן תדאי adding then? He holds ... and he also holds ... What's he adding? The answer is with the hand and with the stick. That's the holding that he's adding. So once you're adding the stick, there's no chiluk between ... That's it. It's not a question of mechusar and not mechusar anymore. That's right. They can both hold that you need to be, what, open, but the chiddush is once ... is with the stick or without the stick. And this תנאי says clearly. To me, he learns that the sugya of the Gemara is the stick and not the stick. According to Rashi, the sugya is ... and not ... Tanna Kamma holds there is no problem ... There is no heter ... And Reb Eliezer holds there is heter ... The other way to learn is that the sugya is ... They both hold it's mutar. The question is what's called ... with stick or not stick. So do you have to be in both cases open and not open? Same sugya. In both cases, ... it has to be open, yeah. In both cases it has to be ... And that's ... Because it becomes batel through a thing, why not? Batel through a thing. That's ... shin ches, seif kuf tes-vav. That's your homework for tonight. Now, the question tomorrow we're going to have to ask is: what happens to the sugya of basar b'chalav? Comes the Tosfos Rid, and learns that the machlokes is the Tanna Kamma and Eliezer argue about basar b'chalav. Tanna Kamma holds that when it's mechusar, it becomes a basar b'chalav. When it's open, it's not a basar b'chalav. But Eliezer ben Tzadok holds that holds the whole sugya, basar is a basar b'chalav. Why not? A drawer is a basar b'chalav, or even a top underneath a menorah is a basar b'chalav. In that ... A drawer becomes a basar b'chalav? A drawer. Or even underneath the ... Tomorrow we'll see. This is part three. Again, tomorrow we'll show you three shitos on how to learn the machlokes Tanna Kamma and Reb Eliezer. One sheetah is Rashi. How do you learn Rashi? Tanna Kamma holds ... What Eliezer? ... Tomorrow. The reason why ... Tosfos ... What does the ... tell you? Tosfos ... Sheetah number one. Sheetah number two. They both hold ... You know what's going on? What is the sheetah of the Tanna Kama? One more minute, one more. What is the sheetah of the Tanna Kama? Huh? Second opinion. Rashi's sheetah is ... according to the Tanna Kama. According to Reb Eliezer ben Tzadok, hey, why mechusar ... is mutar? Because it's not even called a ... min ha... That's Rashi. The second machlokes is the Ran, the sheetah of the Ran and the Rif. How do we ... the Ran and the Rif? The sugya, everybody holds ... is mutar. The question is what ...? Then we have questions moving back to the Rashi. According to Rashi, mutar. Hint. I'm not quoting Rashi. According to Tanna Kama, hint. How does Rashi explain one? Rashi holds ... arguing in ... The ... if it turns into a ... because it's in the teven. See im yirtzeh Hashem tomorrow, the difference ... had to learn tomorrow.

Why each one holds what they hold. Okay, good? Yachkor. Hi pugla. This pugla, says the Gemara, right? This was the snor, snor, right? Put it into the ground. If he put the bigger part in first, then it's no good, because he's pulling out the tzafra. But if he put in, what, the katra in first, so where's he pulling it out from? The top, which is thicker, so mainly he's not moving any earth. Says the Gemara, ... says the Gemara, he's chozer. Nachnu, he's chozer from. Okay. Says the Tosfos like this: Im taimar, you ask me a good kushya. Hai pugla heichi dami? What's the case of pugla? I b'meniach, if he put it there on purpose — meniach means he himself put it there, yeah? You with me? You with me? If he put it there on purpose, then says, mai taima man d'amar, it says it's mutar. Why is it mutar? Lo mata l'maalah, ho'il afilu neyer lo shari. You're not allowed to even move it, kol she'ein tiltul min hatzad. The case — you want to know the case? You have to learn the case where he put — there's a radish that's in the ground. The bottom part is thinner, the top part is bigger. He pulls out from the top. Since the top part was thick anyway, he didn't really move any earth. Now, when we say didn't move any earth, it's definitely neiar, right? Neiar means you definitely moved. Shaking the earth, you can't say you shook the earth. It's impossible to move something out of earth and it shouldn't be neiar. Right? What's the machlokes? Right. What's the kasha on the man damar? Okay. Yes, yes. Right. Meaning, how could you ever be matir? How could you ever be matir? Afilu neiar lo shari. Choshkein—no. Oh, let's do the next line. Yes, Tosfos is like this. In the sugya, the Gemara says, machlokes. Machlokes held that you're allowed to move it, right? You're allowed to move it. Says Tosfos, he doesn't understand. If מניח—if he put it there on purpose, מניח means he put it. It's not ready. It's not right. He put it back in the ground. It's not right. You put it there, it doesn't matter why. It doesn't matter about. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Stuck into the ground. Right, right. Okay. Right, right.