Breakaway Minyanim: When Separation Brings Shalom—and When It Fuels Machlokes

Transcript

This Torah class is brought to you by TorahAnytime.com. Today we'd like to discuss contemporary shaila, which, in truth, is a lot deeper than the actual shaila. There's a lot of hashkafah behind the shaila, and it's because of the parshiyos that we're learning about the Mishkan. We all know that the shul, the beis haknesses, the beis hamedrash, is bimkom the Beis Hamikdash. There's the Mikdash, the regular Mikdash, and there's the Mikdash me'at, the small Beis Hamikdash, the beis knesses. So I'd like to discuss the following topic. It affects us all in one way or another, and that is the breakaway minyan. I will not get into the controversies of every breakaway minyan. I'd like just to discuss the halacha and hashkafah behind it, lefi the Gedolei haposkim, and everyone can take out from it parts, pieces. In every shul, Baruch Hashem, there's always the shul you daven in and the shul that you don't daven in. And if there's a shul that everyone davens in, it has to automatically become quickly the shul down the block where you don't daven, where you do daven, or you only daven, vechulei vechulei. So I just want to be makdim. I got it. I just want to be makdim that whatever we're going to speak today is not, so to speak, halacha l'maaseh l'maaseh, because when it comes practically to every particular case, every case is different. And not always do the general rules apply. I'll just give you a story that recently, years, somewhat years ago—I call that recently—there was someone who opened up a yeshiva within a complex. No, every complex is complex. And right away there was the loichmim, hayitachen, you bring a yeshiva into the sviva, it's so quiet, residential. We don't want a yeshiva amongst us. Now this is a mefurash Gemara in Bava Basra, that you can't be ma'akev a yeshiva, a beis hamedrash where children are learning, with complaints of noise. It's kemat mefurash in the Gemara and the Shulchan Aruch, and less so in the polik. Yet this individual had trouble from the yeshiva that he brought into the complex, and they said they're going to close him down. If it means in Beis Din, then it's in Beis Din; if not, it's the township. So the person reached out to me. At the time I was by Rav Belsky zatzal, I was by his chumash shiurim during the Fridays, every Friday, and— And I had a chance to approach him. So he asked me, ask Rav Belsky, Rosh Yeshiva, what he feels about the shaila. So I went and I told him the shaila. He got angry. What? Stopping a yeshiva? So he's a avel gedolah, and he was so upset about it, and there's a mefurish Gemara בבבא בתרא, and that the yeshiva's there already and they want to kick him out. Us, even worse. It's a shreklach. He was so adamantly angry at the— and even me for bringing the shaila. Hayitachen such a shaila? No. Went back to this Rosh Yeshiva and I told him. He said, Great. Now I know who my dayan is going to be. I'll have Rav Belsky represent me, and if he puts on the same macha in Beis Din, I'll definitely win. I'm not going to get into the logistics if that was right or wrong. I don't get involved in stories. He asked me to ask the shaila, I asked the shaila. I never heard from him again for, I'd say, a few months. When I met him, I asked him, Nu, tell me, whatever happened? He said, I lost. I lost before I even had a chance to say anything. I lost right away. I said, How could you lose? You had the Gemara and the Shulchan Aruch on your side.

There was one problem. When he signed the lease of the house, there was a stipulation clear in the shtar, in the contract, that they cannot bring in any schools or any moystes. It's one of those little lines that people don't read. So the complex came with the shtar, and that was finished, you know. There wasn't much to discuss, and it was over before it even started. I learned a tremendous lesson from this. As long as you don't know the facts, you can come with all the Shulchan Aruch and all the Gemaras that you want, and you could scream from today till tomorrow, Yitachen, but you have to know the pratim. So the hakdamah to the shiur is that I'm just talking the Shulchan Aruch, and to take these dinim and apply it in everyone's particular situation needs horaas chacham that hears both sides, and that's knowledgeable, and hetaka is, you know, he's privy to the whole sugya. He has all the pratim. Otherwise, it means nothing. So I just have to be makdim this hakdamah, because I'm sure after the shiur, people are going to walk around Shabbos and say, Well, yeah, the pischei teshuva, the this, the Igros Moshe. Again, you cannot take the information more than just the sugya, and that each case has to be dealt with by a posek that knows, that's privy to all the pratim. Let's talk the sugya. The sugya actually is— On Radbaz, which the Mishnah Berurah already quotes in Hilchos Beis HaKnesses. The Mishnah Berurah in siman kuf nun speaks and says as follows: Hame'akev livnos beis haknesses, it's in se'if katan beis, afilu yesh beis haknesses acheres ba'ir, monea hu rabim מלעשות מצוה. If you stop someone else from building a shul, a beis haknesses, in the vicinity, it's called monea rabim מלעשות מצוה; you have no right to do it. U'masik sham, d'ma beis haknesses mechilah oisam, az aderabba asurim lיפרד. So there's a stipulation, you see. When people read it, they're going to say, Oh, you're not allowed to stop someone from building a beis haknesses. The Radbaz continues, Mishnah Berurah quotes it, but if the main shul has room for everybody, has room for everybody, then the lashon is, az aderabba asurim ליפרד. So the concept of a breakaway, that itself the Mishnah Berurah used the lashon asurim; it's asur. Now why is it asur? So Mishnah Berurah brings in the Sha'ar HaTziyun two reasons. One is because there's an inyan of b'rov am hadras melech. You have twenty little shuls and one big shul where everyone could come to daven, you're better off davening b'rov am hadras melech. V'od, says the Sha'ar HaTziyun, another reason, and this is very important. Keep in mind throughout the entire limud of the sugya, שעל ידי התחלקות באים כמה מכשולים. When you separate, you start breaking away, a lot of bad things happen, a lot of trouble. והזיקות, a lot of damage is done. First of all, for the tzedakah, the limud haTorah, the tzibur, okay, I got. Avada, if everyone's together, things are easier. The tzedakah, hachnasas for the shuls, and for the Torah and for the limud is much more better if it would be berov am, everyone together. So, memeila, if everyone has a place, they have a seat, so there's no reason to split, and memeila, asurim. It becomes asur. Asurim liparei. עיין תשובת רדב״ז חלק ג' סימן תפא, עיין ב', שהאריך בדינים אלו, ובסוף דברים כתב. So what's the maskana lemaaseh? כל זה בזמן שכולם לב אחד הוא, שכילוסם מאי ליאפה. If they're all b'shalom, so when they daven, ... kilusam. Everybody's singing the same Lecha Dodi, then it sounds good. But if you have twenty...

Different lechadoidis in the same shul, nesaid, twenty different nuschaos, and I don't mean just the singing of it in the shul. So it's not kilusa na'eh l'yafeh, aval im cholak libam, and therefore if they taka have division amongst themselves, yesh l'tovu sheyispalel kol kaf bifnei atzmah. Every individual group should make up their own minyan. Once saw a letter that Reb Shneyer Kotler, zicher tzaddik livrachah, wrote to a yungerman in Lakewood kollel that was getting divorced. Obviously it was a difficult, traumatizing situation for this younger man, and Reb Shneyer is mechazek him and he tells him, No, look at it as a good thing. And he said over from a Baruch Ber, zicher tzaddik livrachah, bechashmuel, haMeir dike zach. He said that he heard from the Bechashmuel that the Bechashmuel said, Yeah, I can't look at pirud, separation, breaking away, as an act of machlokes, but sometimes it's an act of shalom. That itself is shalom. When you're able to live together, then the shalom is to be together. When it's not possible, which is this ravaz, it's just not working out, of course you're supposed to try to make shalom shavah, that everyone should get along, but if it doesn't happen, it can't, doesn't, you know, miracles are miracles. Not every shul has a zocheh to its miracle. So it's better off to separate, because that itself is shalom. And he brought a raya. What's the raya? Because Avraham Avinu, Avraham Avinu, who was the ish hashalom, he was the greatest person in kiruv and in chesed, yet when it came to Lot, he saw he couldn't get along with him. It's niskentuch tzukumen, baikumen. In Yiddish they say, baikumen, they couldn't see eye to eye. So what does the ish hashalom say? He parted, no, me'alai. Oter Bochberg gezogt, zecht men doch, amol פירוד is an act of shalom. And the Radbaz is saying this point: yes, you're not allowed to break off. Now, you understand the complexity of the halacha. On one hand, you're not allowed to stop someone from making a shul. Maybe that's when he's coming in new. It's a new group of people. But how about when the old group wants to separate? Maybe that's where the Radbaz, that's the second issue. So avad, you should try at all costs, so to speak, whatever you could do to keep it together, ברוב עם הדרת מלך, whatever the cheshbonos are. But if not, then aderaba, the Radbaz is paskening and the Mishnah Berurah brings it, that you could separate. So osa lipared when there could be shalom, and there's a heter that maybe even lechatchila the right thing to do when there can't be shalom. Says the Mishnah Berurah, and I quote. אבל אם חלק ליבם יוסף טובו שיתפלל כל קהל בפני עצמו, ולא תטע בדברי לאמר שאני סובר שהחלוקה טובה חס ושלום. You shouldn't take out from this that I say the chalukah is a good thing. You should give a krechtz if you have to do it. It's not something that you should walk away proud, and we won or we didn't win, or whatever the banner of the machlokes is about. It's not a good thing. A chalukah is not a good thing. דהא כתיב: חבור עצבים אפרים הנח לו, כל לבם את ישמו. אלא צריך להשתדל שיהיו לב אחד לאביהם שבשמים. Have to try to be able to put it together. ואם אי אפשר אלא שתמיד הם מסכימים במחלוקת, בדאי הרע במיעוטו. Push off the bad as much. Do what's better for the situation. It's better off this way. Okay, so you're right, chalukah is not good, but it's the better of the two choices. עד כאן לשוני שם בתשובה. Now what is the v'al tita loimer? The v'al tita loimer is people walk around, ... I have to do it. It's gevaldik. If I said—

You have to do it with the cracks. You have to do it. Ah, maybe there's no other choice. It's not going to work any other way. So mimeila, we put it together. I saw a peledike Marsham, Rabbi Yisrael. Shailas uTeshuvos Marsham, he brings this Radbaz, and he says that the only time there's a heter, like we spoke from the Mishnah Berurah, is where the people don't have place to daven. We have to make a shul bigger, or we have to have a separate shul because it's not enough. So that's what he's trying to say. If you're able to do it, avada. That's the whole point. If you're able to do it, let me tell you something. The Gemara says, Where there's shalom, there's never a problem of room. You know, let me tell you something. The Beis HaKnesses is the Beis HaMikdash. The Beis HaMikdash did not have even close to enough room for the people in the Beis HaMikdash. Omdim tzfufim u'mishtachavim u'meravachim. I wasn't going to say it, but you brought it up, I'll tell it to you. Omdim tzfufim u'mishtachavim u'meravachim. What is the word omdim? They stand. Tzfufim, then mishtachavim, then it became meravachim. So you'll ask the question, if you want to make a nes, so make that it should be omdim tzfufim also, omdim u'meravachim also. What do you need omdim tzfufim for? Chalta kasha. Make it comfortable. Today, if you're not going to make it comfortable, who's going to show up, right? Make comfortable. Make it revachim. That's what I can ask, yeah? So there's a katzgevat, because if you give a little bit room, ... You obviously, people have a leif darum. We don't want people running around, ... little davening, little Beis Hamikdash. ... They don't give you much room. ... When you have to bow down, then it's revachim. Sfas Emes used to say, omdim. If every guy stands, stands, standing tall, with gaiva, standing separate from the other guy, then it's tzfufim. ... When they bow, when a person gives a beg, ... there's room for everybody. ... So the concept of room is, like I said, you can have a tiny little room and it's a room. And you can have a big room and there's no room. It's nisht kein room. It all depends on how much ahavah you have. So let's learn the Maharsha. Says the Maharsha meiredik, zogt the Maharsha that there's a Rabbaz that's matir. And then he speaks about only if there is room, if there's no room. Zogt the Maharsha, what's halacha l'maaseh? Shailos u'teshuvos Maharsha, siman chaf. Zogt the Maharsha, mevuar, b'de'ikar machlokes mechuyavim l'sametz k'dei efshar la'asos shalom. If there's a machlokes in a shul, you need to work at best, put all your koiches into making shalom. But like we said, but you have to pick out what's the better of your choices. Sometimes it's not going to work. You make shalom, it just makes more problems. So b'di'eved sheb'inyan acher. What you do is you split up, and then he quotes a Chasam Sofer, which I rather didn't see exactly in the Chasam Sofer. It's not so clear how to read that Chasam Sofer there. And then he brings to the Chacham Tzvi. The Chacham Tzvi says, no, if people feel that they want to go, you should let them go, even if they don't have much of a great reason. Lashon of the Chacham Tzvi: d'b'loi haskamah, reshus b'yad kol adam lipared. And then he speaks about a reason. What would be the reason lipared without a good reason, so to speak? So he says an interesting thing. Sometimes you have a shul where it's not major machlokes, but everybody feels it's not his nusach. I don't feel it's לפי my minhag, לפי my... How about then? Should you make many different kvutzes, different batei midrashim for that? Says the Maharsham that that's what the Chacham Tzvi is talking about. And he says that the pshat is, דהכא מיירי שהיחיד טוען שיש כאן דברים המבטלים כוונותו. Not big stories, but he rather feels better.

The fact to be that they can't get along. They get along. Everyone knows already over the years the different nature of why yes and why what's good and what's not good. But then he says, Everyone knows already over the years the different nature of why yes and why what's good and what's not good. But then he says, ... אבל כיוון שהדבר תלוי בליבו, אין בידינו למחות בידו. We need to give chiddush. And if a guy feels that it's not going for him, it's not his nusach, so he's allowed to break away. So the ikar is, so the shailah, wait a minute, let's go slowly here. Zogt aber, you have to make sure that it has to be l'shem Shamayim. Then he writes, but the problem is that every person thinks and says that he's doing it l'shem Shamayim. ... Everyone's going to say, ... like self-understood. So we have over here a heter from the Maharsham, and this is mistama where the heter of the Velt is, to break away for a little reason. So when there's machlokes, so the right way to do it is to try to quench the machlokes, to try to make sure that the oilam stays together because of b'rov am hadras melech, and if you're able to do that, then it's assur liparei. Where the machlokes is brewing to a point where the davening affects the people and the davening, and fakert, maybe it's the right thing to do, maybe l'chatchila to break away. Then there's a question: we have the middle ground. It's not machlokes, but ... My tata is a ... Yeh meidim, nish meidim, yeh tachnun, nish tachnun. Tell you nice maiseh. You deserve a good maiseh. Everybody deserves a good maiseh, yeah? They told me I have to say maises. Okay, zog a maiseh. I heard from my rebbe, Rav Shustal, many, many years ago, that there was a bunch of shtiblach in Mea Shearim called Batei Ungar. Batei Ungar, shtiblach. The Bisis Alman used to daven there from time to time. It's a one day after Shacharis, after the Shemoneh Esrei, it became a gantze tumult: zog'n tachnun, do we say tachnun? You know how that works, right? There are those that say it's yarg val yaver, you say tachnun, and then there are those that say it's yarg val yaver, you shouldn't say tachnun, that you should say tachnun, right? You know. Kids, don't say tachnun. The other guy said, yeah. So one guy picked up a chair and threw it at him. Another guy went and took the table and threw it at him. The minhag is to say tachnun. The minhag is not to say tachnun. So they went over to Reb Bisis Alman after davening and they asked him, Rebbe, vos is the minhag? He says, exactly what you saw today, dos is the minhag. Yeh, the yar kupmen, and they fight over yes, say tachnun, not say tachnun, and one guy picks up a chair, another table. This is the minhag. Okay. So over these minhagim, so to speak, are you allowed to break away? So from this mareh makom. The Masham seems to say that you're allowed to do it. There's an interesting Igros Moshe, Rabbeisai. Okay, so I'm going to take the— I see, you know what it is? There's a very nice Rashi, Rabbeisai. Rashi says by Parshas Korach, Parshas zu yafa nidreshes. Remember the Rashi, Rabbeisai? First Rashi in Parshas Korach: Parshas zu yafa nidreshes. So you'll ask two questions. How come Rashi paskened decided that Parshas Korach is yafa nidreshes in the Midrash? What? Only it's so nice, the drashos on Parshas Korach. And the second question is, you're not allowed to say mana shmua zu, mana shmua zu. You can't. Teireh is beautiful. So dibur from Reb Yitzchak Levalozhin, he was able to say over the pasuk, Vayedaber Hashem el Moshe leimor, toizen to toizen to mol. If you have ahavas haTorah, you don't need ma'asim, Rabbeisai. That's the truth. The truth is, I should be able to come here and say Vayedaber Hashem el Moshe leimor a thousand times, and you should walk out and say, What a meyridige shiur that was. It would be easy for me to prepare. This would be an easy shiur.

Over the emesis, at the das, ... okay, ... So what does Rashi mean, Parshas ... yafu nidreshes? It has a velt, yafu nidreshes, because everybody has their pshat. It's kumt tzu machloikes. You had the ... with their pshat, with their ... and the ... and in every shul, ... So I see that the oilam is bubbling, and you want to know something? The emes is that I didn't say anything. I said over a Mishnah Berurah. Good, I explained it a little bit, ... See, the oilam is ... Listen to me carefully, ... I told you, I want the klalim and not the pratim, because the pratim, each case is a case for itself. I just want to learn with you the Mishnah Berurah and the Radbaz, to show you the chomer, and that the next time you walk into a beis medrash, maybe the best thing is to stay away from all of it. Could be the best thing is not to be from this side or from that side. The Radbaz is saying it's not so pashut. On one hand, to make the shul, you can't stop them. But on the other hand, to break away from the shul, it's a big ... Maybe on one hand it's aser, and on the other hand it might be l'chatchilah, as Reb Moses taught. And what criteria? Is needed to be matir a breakaway from a shul? Not pashut. It's not pashut. And I want to show you from the Rosh Yeshiva zatzal, Rav Moshe, how Rav Moshe addresses the question. Rav Moshe talks about a chevret Tzirei Yisrael that had to break away from the shul, because the shul they were breaking away from, bad things were going on in the shul. Taruvos, mimeila, they had to break away. So what do you do? So they have a heter? No, I have to, I have to, l'shem Shamayim. So the Rosh Yeshiva, it's not so pashut on many different levels. Zogt, shegam ta'anos b'semederesh hagadol l'hakrim shel garmas hefsed mamon is the ta'ina of the Rivash: lo amar ela k'sheyesh mitzvah d'binyan beis haknesses b'kedushah b'kavua l'tefillah. B'zeh סובר שאין יכולים לעכב. Maybe that's only a beis ha-knesses. When it's nogea to beis medrash. Beis medrash, we always know there's a person ein adam lomed ela b'makom shelibo chafeitz. So it could be the whole shaylah is not even nogea anymore b'zman hazeh. Every beis medrash is really a beis... every beis knesses is really a beis medrash also. Where the needin of breaking... I mean, my beis med... Did I answer your kasha? They gave you a shtikel teretz to your kasha. Yeshiva, you want a yeshiva? Yeshiva. Yet the beis medrash today is a yeshiva. Everything's a yeshiva today. What's not a yeshiva? And then the yeshiva comes with another shtikel ta'ina, and he says that it's very possible that if you can, it's better to make more shuls and more shuls and more batei midrashim. Why? Good. He says, more tefillah, more learning, more davening, yeah, the more the better, the more the better. Forget. There's more, huh? See, he speaks about—you want to wait here till three o'clock and I can tell you the whole—yeah, the yeshiva speaks about. So what do you do b'roivam? So after yeshiva, it's in teshuva, siman lamed aleph, Orach Chaim chelek aleph, zogt the yeshiva, ay, what do you do with the ma'alah b'roivam? So he says, ... v'odif mi'bemakom echad u'ma'alahs roivam, im hu rak la'yachid, shetispalel lefanav, l'spallel b'veis haknesses sheyesh bo roivam. It's on the yachid, maybe. The roivam hadras melech could be on the yachid. You have a shaila, you got big shuls, okay. But the tzibbur's up there, to him it's a different shaila. Maybe it's kedai, the more shuls the better. You know, it's an interesting shaila, and again I see the time, I just wanted to be me'orer a few nekudos here. What about in the shul itself? Sometimes you want to make a second maariv, you know, maariv, a break there. And of course the main story is when there's a chiyuv, right? That's the big, the big need. So again.

Yeah, no, you should, you shouldn't. So I saw in Ribaveis Ephraim. In Ribaveis Ephraim, he brings that he asked the Shaila to Reb Chaim Kanievsky. I don't know how many people fucking know that this Reb Chaim Kanievsky exists. I don't know, it's a letter, it goes back many, maybe fifty years ago he wrote it there. And he brings that Reb Chaim Kanievsky said that it's an outright shaila: should you make the two minyanim to break a second minyan for Maariv or whatever the story may be? And he says that there are those that are makpid, ... should רוב עולם ain't makpidim בזה. All right, you can make a second minyan for Maariv, ... I want to tell you more. There's a ma'amar, the Pischei Teshuva, in siman kuf samech gimmel, se'if vav. So the Pischei Teshuva discusses all the shaila, the entire shaila about the break-off shul and the whole gesheft and everything. And you know what his main concern is? The money. You're being mafsid, because when you have to divide it, then nobody has. Huh? You know about this Pischei Teshuva? It's a very interesting Pischei Teshuva. People don't know about it. And then he further brings that there was a certain shtot — Pischei Teshuva on Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat, in the Shulchan Aruch — he brings that there was a certain shtot that they made a knas, whoever goes to a house minyan. Did I say a bad word, house minyan? Oy vey. Please don't attack me, rabosai. I didn't say anything, just it's here. He talks about the house minyan, rabosai. He says that the rov— Put a knas on anyone who went. Why would the rav put a knas? What's so bad? Shayrit it for you, shayrit it. Aveisai, tishma'ina. V'haya b'tshuvas Shev Yaakov, shenishal oidois, he put out an announcement, b'ir achas shehikriz ha'av beis din, b'tziruf the poskim m'bayis, the ad harov and the poskim put out a psak, shelo ya'asu minyan b'bayis. What? It's from Shulchan Aruch. Shelo ya'asu minyan b'bayis. Rak yelchu kulam l'beis haknesses, im lo yimtzoi Shabbos kodesh u'mtzoi Yontif. I guess they couldn't win that one. Motzoei Shabbos, motzoei Yontif, I guess they let that go. So the question is that a guy who does this is supposed to get a knas. It's a good way for shuls to make money, rabosai. But kitzur, one guy did it, and he made a minyan machmas ones. He claimed, I'm sorry, I couldn't walk, he couldn't this, whatever, he needed to run to work. Well, whatever the ones was, I don't know, it doesn't say what the ones was. So shailah is he's mechuyiv in the knas. So he says in the piskei teshuva he was an ones. So meileh not mechuyiv the knas. But if not, under ones, now the question was what's called an ones. Shailah is what's called an ones. Okay, I see you want to make a first seder limud out of this. I can't do that here. I don't have the time and the leisure of doing that with you. But I just want to end off with two nekudos, chaveirai. There's a meyridike... My bit, that the teshuvas v'hanhagos of Steinbach brings in his sefer. Let me tell you something. You know, even with all these breakoffs, you know what ends up happening? The recruiting sets in. You think the army knows how to recruit people? Oh, you should see when it comes to shuls, the recruiting — megedik, unbelievable, the recruiting mechanism from within. Zogt the teshuvas v'hanhagos from the Mabit, that the Mabit says, that it's an issur, gezel midivreihem. It's an issur gezel midivreihem to recruit people, to convince them to go from one place to your place. He's mafsid hachnasas of the beis haknesses, and it's k'ein yoinim, that you try — the Gemara says you're not allowed to attract the yoinim, huh? You're not allowed to do that. And he brings from the Mabit, and he says that most of the time it's not l'shem Shamayim, and then he says that the Mabit said, shehaya rav b'meshech chamishim shanah, he was a rav for fifty years, u'me'olam lo pitah af echad sheyavo — he never once tried to convince anyone. It's Mabit, rabosai. In the teshuva, chelek gimmel, siman mem-ches, v'tzrichim lizaher b'inyanim eileh.

Mishkal and kedai if the whole thing is worth it. Bottom line, Rebbe said, a maiseh. It all boils down to a maiseh, okay? After this shiur, I want to give you good advice. Ready for good advice? For healthy advice, for normal advice, for Torahdik advice. My zeide told me, and graditz already printed in the Meir Yisrael as well, Radin had a lot of machlokes. The yeshiva had a lot of machlokes. When, after Rav Tali was nifter. After Rav Tali was nifter. Rav Tali, you know, he was the maggid shiur, but then all of a sudden, plutzling, he was nifter, and it turned into a tremendous problem: the vacancy of the spot, who's going to be the Rosh Yeshiva. First, it's the family wanted the family. Rav Chaim had a family. The bachurim always don't want the family. Things never change, huh? Okay, right? So what happens? So when Reb Isser Zalman passes by Radin, Reb Isser Zalman, so they asked him to say a shiur. He said a beautiful shiur. Reb Isser Zalman was beautiful, the way he spoke and everything. Zis, it was beautiful. Reb Chaim, Chaim's derech. The bachurim decided they want him. So they signed a petition, and every bachur signed that they want Reb Isser Zalman. And they sent him, my grandfather knowing that Reb Isser was very close to Chofetz Chaim, or could be they figured that he'd be the only one that wouldn't get it over the head for bringing such a letter. I don't know exactly, but he went in with it. Chofetz Chaim looked at it, and he didn't say anything. He says, Luft mir Reb Isser Zalman. Call me Reb Bisisalman. Ketzer Reb Bisisalman comes, Reb Bisisalman told my zeide what the Chofetz Chaim told him, told him five words: Machloikes, fire. It's fire, and kleift and kleift. Fire. Reb Bisisalman understood, and he took the next train out of Radin. Fire. Aveisai, you want a fire? Harav on the Gemara, harav on a Tosfos. So beautiful. Fight over a Gemara, fight over a Tosfos. You fight over things, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. I'd like to end with a raya, and understand the chomer of the fire. Why is it more in the Beis HaMedrash? We find that it revolves the Beis HaMedrash more than anything else. Why? Don't start about it. So, technical invested interests. People have a shaykhes more in the Beis Medrash. But I would say, in our beis, a bissel andersh. Over the years I came to learn, the yesod of the Beis HaMikdash was omdim tzefufim, mishtachavim revachim. The yesod of the Beis HaMikdash was kulam, as Yidden zoln kumen tzuzamen b'voi kol Yisrael eirois, l'hischaber Klal Yisrael. So the greatest nisayon is the pirud, because that destroys the Beis HaMikdash, and that's what takke Chazal meant. B'ahavah uvsinah sechinam. Nechrav haMikdash, why? What's the kesher between sinas chinam and Beis HaMikdash? Why should it get destroyed? And the Torah says, Kol nediv lev, kol nediv lev ivieha. Klal Yisrael built the Beis HaMikdash through chibur. It was chibur of Klal Yisrael's love for the Eibishter. The moment there's pirud, mimeila the Beis HaMikdash got destroyed. And with what did it get destroyed? With eish. It's interesting. An interesting ha'arah to think about. Beis HaMikdash was burnt, fire. Machlokes, fire, rabosai. Machlokes is always, nirmas fire, and that's why there's a special nisayon in the Mikdash מעט, these inyanim. The zehirus in these inyanim has to be much, much more. You have to be more careful and more sensitive to it. You've just experienced another Torah class, brought to you by TorahAnytime.com.