Maris Ayin in Basar B’Chalav: Almond Milk, Pareve Creamers, and Margarine

Transcript

Okay. Okay, so we have maris ayin, yeah? Funny, it's a Ramban, not a Mechaber. What do we do with that? Issue number one. The Mechaber is bold of it? Go ahead, read. Maybe this didn't have it. Today we have the burger and the... Maybe it's something new. The way the Ramban starts today, there's a meaning that maybe they just didn't have it by the Mechaber. And therefore, who says he holds of the whole issue? Maybe the issue is not issue. The truth is, it's not in the Gemara, so you made up a maris ayin. Ashkenazim, the chicken with... Yeah. Okay, so let's go. יש מקום לומר... יש מקום לומר שסימת השקדים מהני רק במה שים העוף בתוך החלב, שקדים, לא מבשל בו. Oh, maybe it says you put. They used to put. Who says? Maybe mevashel is worse. What do you mean, drink? They used to put oif in milk. Right. Didn't say one word about cooking it in milk. It said cooking, didn't say one word about cooking. It's mixed it, but cold. Mixed it? Maybe. Or even hot, I don't know, but it's not cooking. Maybe mevashel would be worse. Maybe the guy takes almond milk and starts cooking, it's a problem. Yeah. Continue. Can we be medayek from the Mechaber and the... Yeah, the what? You mean the first piece that I'm saying. Not the Rama, before the Rama. Yeah. I don't know. ... Bishul. You can't even cook. ... Basar chaiv, even if ... mutar. Bishul, bahana. So he's not אפילו. I don't think the Rama argues with that. I mean, the mefarshim make like there is. Yeah? Who says that? The Taz. We need the Taz. I don't remember exactly where it was. You mean he doesn't care about Maris Ayin because he lets you have behemah temeiah? No, סעיף ד', אסור לבשל בחלב אישה מפני מראית העין. So he's holding of maris ayin. It's chalav ishah maybe, because that is milk. It's not muchach. Yeah, but it's milk. And what, chalav shekein is not milk? No, milk. It's juice. What's the difference between orange juice and shekein juice? It's juice. But the color looks like it. Why is that milk? Maris ayin is maris ayin. Maris ayin doesn't mean that you're actually doing anything. Maybe, yeah, maybe not. I don't know. You make up your own. I don't know. Maybe it has to really be milk. This is milk. I'm not muchach. I don't know. You know, maybe, maybe, yeah. That's the question. Maybe. Again, it's a simple question. Does he hold of— I don't know. Dummy, you see the difference between milk and chalav shekein? I see a big difference. Milk of an isha. Do we see the difference? Milk of an isha is milk. Sorry to tell you, it's milk. Parve milk kosher, whatever it is, it's not a behemah temeiah. I hope she's a behemah tehorah, right? It's up there. The point being, the point being, you hear? All right, let's go weiter, weiter, weiter. It's a good ha'ara. What's the mekor? Next. ולהא פכי יש לומר, yeah. ... בשר בהמה ... רק לבשלם יחד. ואפילו אם נאמר ... גם כן אסור בבשר אמיתי, עדיין שייך לאוכלם יחד, אולי יש להתיר בפרט אם שם ... Okay, so let's say you're not allowed to cook basar of right, and you're not allowed to put it together. Do you see anything about eating one after the other? Huh? How about seeing eating one together with—together, eating it here, not putting it together? One after— No, I'm eating it. Is that okay? Maybe yeah. Why not? Why not? I don't know. It's a beautiful ha'ara. It doesn't—

See, one word, it says put it, the meat. Is there maris ayin on a gzeirah d'Rabbanan? That's a different question. So you keep on trying to go back to—let me tell you what the problem is. You're trying to get back to what everyone else talks on the sugya. I know that's the sugya. I get it. I'm trying to read with you. The story is one of two things: basar oif put into. See, either it means cooked or not cooked. It doesn't say eating it together. Isn't this a gzeirah on a gzeirah? I don't care. I will not address the issue. Hey! David, open the door a little bit. We love you, David. Open it. Don't open it either. You don't want to get sick. Yeah, okay. The point I'm trying to bring out is, I know that you're coming with the gzeirah, the Rabbanan, the gzeirah, the gzeirah. I'm not interested. I'm so not interested in all this. I don't care that you have your chiddushim. I don't care about that. I want to read with you. What do I see? I see basar oif in chalav shekeidim and putting shekeidim. That's what I see in the Rambam. After that, I want to know: A, do I know the mechaber? No. B, now you see what I do with the reading? Now you see what I'm doing with you? I'm reading with you. The first thing is, no mechaber, so maybe it doesn't—just by default. Maybe the reason is because there is no story of chalav shekeidim there. Okay. The second thing is, it's putting in. Maybe cooking is worse than even putting in. Yeah? Maybe it's worse. Yeah? Or maybe the other way around. Maybe it's about cooking, and if even meat would be what? What would be meat according to Rama? Putting in is a problem. If I don't put it in, it won't be a problem. So can I drink? Can I have meat together with almond milk? One after another, but not together. Maybe, yeah. Not even one after another, together also. I have the meat. I'm not drinking meat with together. No, no, you bit a piece of the meat and then you're drinking the almond milk. Yeah, no, that's okay, but not together. Not one on top. You know who says that? Nobody. I don't know. I want to say it. Nobody says it. All right, continue, yeah. Put, you see, you asked me to read with you. I'm doing that. You asked me to read. I'm reading with you. It says to put. It doesn't say drinking it together. All right. But it's not mashma in the Rishonim that they used to cook it? I don't care. Maybe it is. That's, I don't know. I asked you this. Maybe cooking is worse. I don't know. I know that's what's mashma in the Rishonim, yeah. So maybe cooking is worse and everything else is okay. Okay? And then we can start saying, you know what, by basar maybe it's fine as long as you don't cook it. The Shach is bothered with this question, no? Yeah. The Mahari Vish. Yeah. ... basar behemah d'leka issur d'oraisa, ein tzarich l'haniach shekeidim. ... chemuchach b'devarav chatas. It's not familiar? That was your kasha, right? It's your kasha on the Rama. Okay, yeah. ... sh'challu b'shekeidim achari habasar, afilu ... amiti lo huba. Yeah. ... mutar b'shulchan ... v'lo nosei keilim, d'hedyot asur. Yeah. We can kasher l'oser. Why are we asering it? We can kasher. Lama osin kol hamutar... Ima glida parve. I said, what's with tumah? Ah, tumah. Take it. Good. Shabbos nachas, son. Love you. Shabbos nachas. My pleasure, my pleasure, son. I wish you all... I wish ... go be happy. Okay, continue. So why'd they make it tumah about glida parve and not the mesafas? Yeah, what's the big deal? It's after. It's completely not even the story. If I'm understanding Rebbe's question, Rebbe's saying, where in the poskim do we see that this is an issue? Probably after. After for sure we don't see it. The gezeirah was only to cook or put. Maybe bishul, not this. Maybe, maybe, maybe, okay, but not this. Great question. Okay, continue. How about putting it in the same table? As what? Milk and then... and basar of. Basar... shulchan... with basar of here. Can I keep it like this? Yeah, why not? Problem. Maris ayin, people say, Ooh, he's eating... It's not like you don't see any of this. It's, lichora, all of it should be mutar. Okay, continue.

The harama mashma shema pas מספיק להשים בצד השיעור, כמה קרוב וכמה רחוק לא. Have plot, maybe if I... I don't know. Notata ... לשיעור? Maybe. Ask me to read, I'm reading. Maybe you can put it right next to it. Maybe that. Maybe not. Maybe, yeah. Maybe it's good. Oh, it's different. Why is there almonds at the end of the table? That is... oh, I don't know. That's already a shinui, no? Not familiar a little bit about your question with shinui. It has to do with this topic. Okay, go ahead. No. יש להניח אצל החלה? Maybe. Yam Shel Shlomo says that means either b'tocho or b'tzido. Oh, so it's b'tzido. Go ahead. Like that, next to each other. Maybe. I don't know. Is he standing on my side? Tell me, when you ask a ... על ימין ... what, he has to be on top of you, like standing on top? Okay, go ahead here. ... לפקחלב, היינו מותר בלי סימת השקדים. Oh, is it about tam? ... מראה, looked like. ... called. It's called milk? No, it's not called milk. Yeah, but it looks like milk. Tastes like... Which one is it? Does it taste like milk, look like milk? They call it milk? Your Chinese books don't deal with all this, huh? I saw Rav Yosher Ber, he makes up a ... could answer the questions. Good. Rav Yosher Ber knew how to learn. Go ahead, yeah. How are you? Go ahead, next. It's a great question. I know it's a great question. Go ahead. No, he doesn't talk about Rebbe's question, but now I'm putting the two and two together. It can become—because he was intelligent. Go ahead. No, you know how to learn. Go ahead, next. יש מתירים אם הדבר ידוע ומפורסם. That's a heter we saw. You know the heter. The heter, Rav Chaim Yosef. It says it's already... Everybody knows it. Yeah. מיו מהרמא לא משמע כן. Yeah, because he says, no, obviously it doesn't help, right? Everybody knows that on Purim this was the dish, so why do they still have to make it, right? Right. Big problem. Go ahead, next. לכאורה. לכאורה מספיק שימת הנייר של... As long as you get the—what's the difference, right? As long as you see, you know, you eat the shkedim, it's the shkedim. Okay, yeah. השקדים לאו דווקא. Continue. Yeah. לכאורה שימת פתק שזה החלב פרווה יספיק, ולא כמו שפוסקים המחמירים בזה, דמאי נפקא מינה? I think the... Shulchan... I have no idea. Shkedim, I don't know, Rama made it up. He said you should just have a—if you have a chalav shkedim, you have to go find shkedim. Next. Yeah, I don't know, it's hard. מרגרין. Yeah. יותר גרוע שדומה למראה החמאה, וצורתו ונעשה מעיקרה להיות במקומה, ותחליף. Oh. Margarine is supposed to be really butter. You put on stick of margarine, stick of butter, it's the same. Looks exactly like butter. Exactly. Yeah. כן, חלב פרווה קרימר בשביל הקפה כמו מרגרין. It's the same. Those are worse. Those are much worse than the parve or whatever. The parve milk is already—Rebbe's coming to the previous question, eating after meat. You're going to consume it after, not—unless you put it inside the milk, Rebbe's saying. Inside the meat, they're going to make a steak with the creamer. It's a good question. And the truth is, by putting the margarine, you're not even gaining anything. How could you on margarine? You put a thing of mileage with the box there. Margin to me is much worse. Go ahead, continue, continue. Oh, it's very possible that you're allowed to put it there, but does it mean you can't eat it if you don't have it? I don't know. Or what do you want? You want to start putting what on every table, what, boxes of ice cream? What do you want to do exactly? Margin. Do you want to start putting margarine boxes there? What do you want to do? Go ahead, coffee cream, put things on a fancy simcha, you put coffee creamers. Okay, go ahead. Maybe if the guy walks around, the waiter walks around saying, The coffee, by the way, is creamer, maybe it's good enough. Didn't you have to do something? I don't know. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. Nira, shetalui. Right. It's not a real chiyuv, it's not a real gezeirah, so then it should be mutar b'yachid. It's just a technical problem, right? ... chacham ...

Okay, yeah. Have a nice day. Okay, tell everybody to come. I want to start this; I gotta go home. So what's Rabbi's point? Everybody just asks questions. No, no, no, I'm paskening. This is all psak halachos. What I'm doing is I'm wording it in a dangerous... Based on the questions, Rabbi's paskening halachos. Every halacha here, I hold is halacha. We're getting there. You know, I'm gonna tweet you, as they say, where I'm paskening. The margin. Just, this is the... The margin is a problem. Why? Because it's... I think margin is really, instead of... It's like butter. Where's the chalashkitim? I think it's worse than... So the maaseh, one line of what's Rabbi paskening? No, mitzvashem Monday, but one line. I want to show you where I'm going with this. Halacha l'maaseh, we're gonna pasken on every one of these cases.