Recognizing Treifos by Dimui: The Limits of Visual Comparison

Transcript

Okay, so go ahead, Azari, read me the seif. Read it. So kurkavan is the gizzard. It's the stomach. It's whatever it is, okay, yeah? Then it arva osa. What happened to this kurkavan? It had a hole in it. What's wrong with having a hole in it? And the answer is, it becomes treifa. Very simple. So far, the mechaber wasn't mechadesh very much. A kurkavan, it exists. That's not the chiddush of the mechaber. Shenikev, happens. Treifa, דיןי משולחן ערוך. It's already explained. Go ahead, yeah? Then it arva osa. What happened? It got mixed what? With other chickens. With other kurkavans. With other kurkavans, sorry, macher, with other. So now he has a whole thing of kurkavans. One of them is from a treifa, yeah? Medameh. Okay, so this seif. Also tarnegoles im acherot. So he's talking about the chickens. With other tarnegoles, yeah, we're talking with the chicken of that kurkavan, the kurkavan with that chicken, yeah? Im acherot. And you see that little, that big yud-tet, because that's really the seif. The seif is about, if you had to write inyan, medameh. That's what this is about. The comparison, the science of comparison. And could I compare and say, well, this kurkavan fits this chicken, it fits... Could I play that game? All right, continue. The ar charal's involved. What's the? The chickens. The chickens are kosher. The sofek is on the kurkuvan, which is seemingly disconnected from the chicken, and you're sitting on the... No, but the kurkuvan in the chicken makes the whole thing treif. Yeah. Right, I'm saying, but the mixture was with the kurkuvan, so there was no... Yes, whatever it is, this kurkuvan in the chicken... So why can't we say batel b'rov on kurkuvan? Why? Because there's a charal involved. The chicken is a charal? Why not? Maybe. Why not? It's a little nothing. Who serves a kurkuvan like that? Kurkuvan is the gizzard, no? Right, yeah, please, gizzards. I mean, I see they sell packs of gizzards. So what'd you learn, the chicken was charal? What'd you learn in the story? No, I didn't understand what's this doing here. This sounds like this belongs in... So let's get to that soon. We're gonna read the Aruch HaShulchan. Maybe we'll try to get the answer to your question. Anyways, continue. The word medamim. Okay, medamim: shuman sheb'kurkuvan, l'shuman hatarnegol... You have to play puzzle. Puzzle. See where it fits. Yeah, does it fit with the treif? Does it fit with kosher? Medamim, right? Continue. And the question is on the chicken, right? Oh, that's what we're saying. The question is on the chicken. Yeah, but the chicken is not charal. It's not batel. We asked, we got it. Got your question. Go ahead. Whatever it is, we play the medamim story. Yeah, go ahead, yeah. Okay, medamim: shuman sheb'kurkuvan, l'shuman hatarnegol, shemakom chibur hakurkuvan... So we try to say this, you know, they used to say which thing doesn't belong. Here it's which thing does belong, right? This fits with this. Go ahead, yeah. The im domim, the gamrei meksherim ha'acherot. So we're going to take apart every word, because this is reading. Big, you know, kolim, what they do is advanced learning of Yoreh Deah. We are going to do what they call that primary reading, reading. Go ahead. So first of all, let's see what the word medameh. There's a Shach. Says the Shach, you saw that big yud tet? He sent it to Siman. The answer is he sent you. He says, go look at seif katan yud gimmel. Oh, what does it say over there? So I have it on your papers. I wrote it out, right? Lechaber medameh, ayin Shach, yud tet, gimmel, daled. What is that, ayin sham? It's about chatichah, dagim. One of them is kosher and not kosher, right? It has fins and doesn't fins. What we do is we try to fit it in and see, oh, this fits in with this, so this belongs to the kosher and this is not the kosher. So we do it for kosher and not kosher, right? We do the medameh game for kosher, correct? You want to read? Read the Mechaber, read. מצא חתיכות דגים ביש באחד מהן כסכסת, אם חתיכות מתאימות כולן מותרות. חזקה מדג אחד באו, ואם אינן מתאימות, העץ שנמצאו בהן כסכסות מותרות.

That's the trade, then it's trade. Good? So this is where we find the medamem. Continue. What is medameh mean? How is it supposed to fit? You know how things could fit? It could fit in size. It could fit that it, you know what I'm saying, it fits into the, right, the puzzle. Or it belongs, it looks like the same color and the same... So he's telling you to do it. I know, but first, because what's the reading? Medameh. A person could look like him in size. A person could look like him in color. Color, what he looks like, right? So which medameh do we need here? Says the Shach, it fits in like a glove. You don't need to see the way it's cut, or you see how it's sliced, and all of them are connecting. Or connecting, or... Also, you don't have to make it puzzle fit. Right, that's what he's saying. No, I don't think he says that. He says the way it looks from the layout, that this looks like this was part of this. That's what we want. It's ve'ein tzarich. The ein tzarich, the chituch, sheyira mitoch hachituchan shehakol hu dag echad. You don't have to match the cut so it should look like one fish. That's what I'm saying. Right, but what else? What doesn't match it? V'chein hu da... d'im hem rak mat'imot, d'hainu shemitchabrot yafeh. Right, which means it doesn't have to be an exact... You mean even color, he's saying. No. Color is not—it's definitely not talking about color. He never mentioned one word about color. I'm saying it looks similar. Mat'im. It's mat'im. Mat'im means you see that this is the bottom of this top. Right, that's what it is, but it's not about color. Never said one word about color. So you want to read it that way. I don't mind. And then he says that's how he learns Gemara here. Yeah, that's what I... Yeah. So you write down, Li nira, ma shelo katuv. I feel that what he's saying is not what he wrote, because he didn't write color. So write, say that. Say he said one thing, and I think he means something else, and I'm right and he's wrong. Say it. I don't know, whatever you want to write. Everyone writes a sefer today. The Sifsei Daas says maybe like, v'lon ba'inan sheyeh domot b'mareh gam ken. I know. I make it up. I have to look in the look. So what are we looking at then? I don't know. Whatever it is, it's not about what it looks. It's about that somehow it... We can tell that this belongs to this. This is the piece to this. Now he says that it looks that way. Shach didn't say it. Sifsei Daas definitely didn't say it, but somewhat, right, a sefer, not a big deal. Everybody's writing sefarim today. The father-in-law's paper. Huh? The father-in-law's paper. Who? But for the meats and stuff. All right, it's a good question. We write, in general, DNA tests, one of the oldest questions in the book. Let's move along, because if you have to pay for a DNA test on a piece of chicken, I think you should throw it out first. How are you gonna start paying for DNA tests? They'll probably start selling it at home tests. Oh, maybe. All right. Patent. Okay, go ahead, yeah. DNA test for basar b'chalav. Go ahead, nu, next. That's also in Pigamon? Here, no, here. Here, tet-vav, he says no, it has to look alike. It's not about that it... Mashma b'mareh gam ken, yehu shavos. Now, what's the problem with this Taz? You read the mechaber. He what? He didn't read? I guess not, because that's not what the mechaber says. You want to tell me what the mechaber actually does say here? Domim, legamrei. No, that's the last few words. You see that? You're the type of guy that just ends off the last two words and it's good enough. V'haya Hashem l'Melech al kol ha'aretz, it's good enough for davar. What about what he said two words before that? Midamin. No. Shuman shekukruman. No. Shuman tarnigoles. Go ahead. Machsima acherot. That's what he wants, the last two words. Did he say something about makom and chibur? Makom chibur, it just said. Yeah, so what's he talking about? So he's saying, that's not what it looks like. It looks the chibur, the makom where it's attached, no? Big problem. Taz usually don't do that, the Taz. Okay, so read it inside where the Taz is cholek on the Shulchan Aruch.

Let's go. Taz is cholek on Shulchan Aruch. Go ahead, because what does the Shulchan Aruch say? Makom chi— No? Chibur, he said. What's wrong? He said what happened. No, he said no. The wording is exactly the Shach, not the Taz. How did the Taz get married? It says not married. Yeah, I heard that. Okay, so let's go. Let's read it here. V'kasha alei lashon Shulchan Aruch, medamin makom chibur, with the ches, with the Sephardic ches, chibur, hakurkav. Now, comes along the Hagahos Sam Sofer and says a chiddush. It's only about Charal, Rabbanan, ma'aseh zachin. Oh, really? Dag over there was kosher, not kosher? Chiddush. No, what? The story over there was d'Rabbanan. D'Oraisa, to me. But l'mi d'Hagahos Sam Sofer, you have that they took out of Shulchan Aruch already also. They took out everything. You don't have a Hagahos Shulchan Aruch Chasam Sofer? It's a Sefardic Shulchan Aruch. What? No, the opposite. They took out all the Sefardim. How could you not have a Hagahos Chasam Sofer? Okay. How could you not have a Hagahos Chasam Sofer in the Shulchan Aruch, achreis? I don't know what happened. Okay, anyway, so you look at the regular old original Shulchan Aruchs, they have that Hagahos Sam Sofer, that this is only for Charal d'Rabbanan. Says—go ahead—ayin lashon Reb Akiva Eiger over there, and that goy, and he says, No, no, no. I'm sorry, my son-in-law, you made a big mistake. You know, they're father-in-law, son-in-law. He said, No, I'm not going to pay you anymore what I have to pay you as a son-in-law. No more. Stopping the food bill because you argue. What? There's a father-in-law. He stopped paying? I'm choking. ... doymeh de'oraisa, here. That helps אפילו דאורייתא. Okay, the Bach, the Taz. Yeah, go ahead. Lashon hamechaber: doymim legamrei. So now let's read the next word in the Shulchan Aruch. Yeah? Doymim? Legamrei. Legamrei. It says the word legamrei in the Shulchan Aruch? I made it up, right? Okay. And what does legamrei mean? Mamash legamrei? Or when a guy says, I'm definitely coming tomorrow, that type of legamrei? Definitely coming to learn tomorrow. Depends if he's Friday afternoon. Okay. Now, here's another question. Mahu, in nevad, that piece got lost. Yeah? What? Which piece? The piece that you want to compare to. It's not compared to any of them. On the fish? The story of the Chara, whatever the story is. You can't compare it to anything because that thing is gone, but it's not compared to any of the other ones. So it's not that it matches; it's the opposite. It doesn't match to anything. Right. Can you eliminate it? Could you eliminate it? It's a great question, no? Could doimeh work by elimination? Go ahead, continue. What happens the other way around? It's not mamash doimeh to this. But it's not at all doimeh to the other ones. Could that be? Could you work with the— is legamri mean it needs to be an exact match? Or it can't, it doesn't fit anybody else, right? And then it doesn't have to be mamash doimeh to the one that it does fit. It's a good question, huh? You like it. You're gonna think of these things, huh? Okay, yeah. V'nira— because the Taz brings down, tes-vav, what does he bring down? We read it inside. Ein anu bakiin. ... What does he mean, bakiin? I mean this all the time in the Shulchan Aruch. People just use it left and right when they feel like— Today, well, we know, we're such professional meat butchers. I don't know, we're not a butcher. What do we know? So I don't understand, how do we come from— Yisrael had to live before the Shulchan Aruch. The Shulchan Aruch says they are bakiin, and Yisrael says we're not. So how do you understand that? I don't know. Maybe it's arguing— maybe in Sfas they were baki. I don't know.

Don't bother me so much. It's a good reading question. Okay, got it. Move on. Point being, we're not bekiin—what? What's the word? Kol kach. Oh, and why is that? Because you need legamrei. Reading. No, what is the—what is the... Now understand, if you learn legamrei means legamrei, legamrei, so we're not bekiin kol kach legamrei, right? I mean, you could tell more or less, yeah, but that's not enough. You need legamrei. It's like you have pieces of fish, you chop them up in four pieces. Yeah, so we're not this—like you have a little kid, put them together. What's the answer? If it's clear, clear, maybe it's different. Yeah, probably. Okay, so he sounds like we're not—I don't know. It means eino bakiin in the ones that are not that clear, right? Okay, continue. Yeah. So this is only if it somewhat matches all of them. It matches more this one, and we're not bekiin to come and say definite. What happens if it definitely don't match the other ones? You don't need the complete exact match on this one. Nice, huh? So what do you see from over here? He's using the principle of elimination, that the dinu for what it is would be easier, because you're using the principle of elimination. That's where I found the principle. That's where it came from. This is where I learned this. Yeah? It's not an exact match to this, right? But the other things eliminated that, and therefore maybe you don't need an exact match, which would mean that today you could be somech on it, because today we don't have the exact match. Good? Okay. I in kaf hachayim. Something al dumya shelanu, dimui shelanu. Perhaps some ruba, right? That's the sevara, the chazakah of ruba; whenever it's ruba, it's mutar, yeah. V'roya... he's being machmir on the Rama. V'hefsed merubah v'roya... nikar lakol. Wow. So you add a big thing that it's a big difference, and it's nikar lakol. So you got a few rules over there. You saw it in there in the Tosafos somewhere. It's interesting, right? In other words, so what do you have? Mashma, lo rak ha-tabach. It's not only a butcher; it could be to the eye of the layman if it's very obvious. Okay. So here's my question. This is really the shiur, the sheer part of the shiur. Is dimui take away the chazkas issur? The dimui tells me what it is. Is dimui now, therefore, we could say safek lehakel? Or dimui is even if safek is l'chumra, you could fix it. Neged the issur d'Rabbanan, it's neged charal, right? Huh? That's the real shiur. The real shiur is: what is the sugya of dimui? Ha'im dimui ze din, that there's such a thing called dimui, or is dimui enough to be mata a safek that we could go l'kula? Seemingly, by dagim it's d'Oraisa. That's what I wanted. I showed you, by dagim it's d'Oraisa. That's the homework for today. It takes away chazkas issur, seemingly. More than that, maybe dimui is a din that that's called—now I know for sure it's not a safek. It's not that it's a—before you had a chazkas issur; now it's a safek d'Oraisa. That's what I'm trying to tell you, that my raya is for the d'Oraisa. It's exactly what I proved. If you learn it's only d'Rabbanan, it makes sense. And if it's only derabbanan, what does it mean? It takes away the chazakas. Not that it's a safek d'oraisa l'kula. And that's the rate of the whole sugya of din. Okay, see you tomorrow. Zayn matzliach.