Nosen Taam Lifgam: Meat Flavor in Honey, Oil, and Changing Tastes

Transcript

I want to move to daled because daled is more cute, and I want to get to hei because that's more ikar. If you want, go ahead. Right. What's something, I don't know. I need the melach in order for the gam to work? Yeah. Which means without the melach, it won't bring out the taste. Yeah. It would be in the shevach. Yeah. And it's still mutar. Still mutar. It's not al ydei atzmo. Okay, go ahead. I don't—like, the cases are bizarre. Like, I don't really have the—like, I was looking at this siman. Give me the kitchen l'maaseh. So the first thing was the kitchen l'maaseh, the first two shiurim, this is the kitchen l'maaseh. And the next one is ben yomo and not ben yomo. That's l'maaseh. That's—here, you want to know something with something, I don't know. Okay, let's move on. Now, b'mechaber—do it inside. Do it inside the Shulchan Aruch. Why? So you have goy keli, the veilin side, even though the famous kashya is they're all not b'cheskas ben yoma. Okay, whatever, so whatever. Let's you know for sure. Okay, that's the story. All right, good. Okay. Now I'm just trying to think, do we have a practical goyishe keli? Factories maybe. All right. If you buy honey from a farmer. A farm. That would be a case. Okay, good. Shemen, what's regular oil? Oil. Okay, I'm with you. All good. Okay, I'm trying to get the practical. All right. Anyway, so what's the thing? Read it inside. The mechaber, shemen. You're allowed to have it. Shegoyim, af al pi shemevushal, mutar, mipnei shehabasar poge'a besa shemen u'masricho. Oh, so this is the story, yeah? Why does it say v'chein? No. The wording, v'chein. All right. He says, af al pi... lifnei shehabasar poge'a besa shemen. So why does he say, why not basar poge'a besa shemen davash? All right, it's kind of interesting. I hear. All right. So let's see l'maaseh. What's the l'maaseh here? Read the Rama? Yeah. No, before the Rama, we take a part separately. Wait, so what does the mechaber say? Flavored honey is not a good thing, bad thing. Yeah? Good. Flavored honey, not so good. Yeah? Yes, I have a different—why can we have a simple case where you cooked in a fleishig pot, you put oil, whatever, and now you want to eat it together with milk? That's an interesting—well, I have goyim, I have... Was this discussed in the basar b'chalav? What's wrong with—what's wrong if this is not? I mean, this is also neveilah, you mean because it's not basar b'chalav? It could be mentioned in the... All right, maybe. But you like my question. I took a fleishig pot, I cooked oil and honey in it, and now I want to eat it, I want to make cheesecake, I want to put it into a cheesecake. What happens? Good question. According to the Gra, the chiddush is that the basar is... That's what I want. I'm just telling you a chiddush about basar. Okay, so let's see further. So let's see, the mechaber next, shemen. Dvash, you don't see the question. You hear my question? Simple question. Okay, next. Does it make a difference? Cheirishem and shemen. So you hold like that, right? You know that everybody argues on you, right? We'll soon see. We'll soon see. Right. Let's see. We'll soon see. They cook shemen zayis? Shemen zayis is cold-pressed. We'll soon see. Shemen is shemen and zayis is zayis. I'm sorry, yeah, dvash is dvash. Across the board, mechaber doesn't make a difference, correct? Seemingly. Seemingly. So let's go further. I love dvash tov l'basar. Today's the most... I love dvash and basar. I used to make it for my... Maybe it's different when it's cooked, Rebbe. Maybe. But first let's get the question. The question is Chinese food. That's it. Called dvash. The best chicken that I ever tasted is honey glazed chicken. Delicious. You know who? Tell me, sir, you like honey glazed chicken? Chaynes don't like the sweet. They don't like it. You like barbecue, so write me down all the different chickens you like. It's very...

Okay, now. So the point is—I was trying to make a point. The point is, the Rishonim talk about honey chicken, yeah? No good, nisht gut. ... said, Not true. What do you mean? In my kitchen it's delicious. Go ahead, continue, yeah. Honey with chicken, not good. Honey stew. Chicken stew, meat stew, cholent. You put the meat, spices, you put onions, you put honey as one of the—oh, that's good. But imagine a guy shmears honey on his chicken. Who? Nobody. That's what he's trying to say. Nobody eats honey, you're saying? Honey is never the only ingredient to make the chicken. That's what he's trying to say, because it doesn't taste good. Honey together with the ... So if I take honey out of the thing and put on the chicken, no one does it. That's what—honey barbecue with other stuff in it. Basically, the Beis Yosef went to culinary school now, and he's teaching us what tastes good, what doesn't taste good. Honey is, yeah, good. And if you put that, if you make a Chinese chicken, it's good. And if you make it cholent, I don't know what they call it, Ukrainian chicken, not good. That's the Beis Yosef. That's the Taz. The Taz is, it's all about the ingredients. All right. Culinary school, sir. Sir, you like to go to culinary school? No. Then you'll understand this Beis Yosef and Taz. Go ahead. Yeah. ... put the honey with this. Yeah, yeah. So let's see weiter. Ayin Taz, yeah. Taf-shin-samech. This is what I wrote, taf-shin-samech. Plain honey. My kids used to make fun of me. I love chicken and meat, everything with honey. You know, I just dumped the honey. I used to do that. The amount of calories that, when I used to make chicken, the amount of... My kids used to, till today, they used to call it candy glazed chicken. Candy glazed. They used to call it. Seriously, my kid. I just dumped all the sugar in there, and that was it. Go ahead. Ein gros, you cut that zayin, b'sheim ha. Dvash b'basar, tov u'mashbia. Dvash b'basar is tov u'mashbia. Aval dvash haboleia taam basar, meidi honey. That's not very delicious. They have a slight taste, it's off. Favorite, caramel honey is good. Imagine a guy sells honey, meat-flavored honey, right? The other way, honey-flavored— no, meat-flavored. Meat-flavored honey. Oh my gosh. I'm talking about from the perspective of the honey, not from the meat. Whatever it is, that's what he's saying, right? From the meat, not from the honey. Go ahead. Ein gros, b'sheim ha. Hagroa b'likut. What is the gros? ... b'basar vaen. ... l'taam basar, makli l'toch hadvash. That's what it is, right? There's a very big difference between—not that the honey, it's a flavor. Meat with honey b'en is good. Flavor of meat is not good. Meat, honey, good. Flavors of that don't mix. Basically, it's color, right? Yeah? All right, so let's ... Ayin-shach, סימן יד. ... It's not interesting. ... not true. It tastes delicious. So I guess the shach did like this type of chicken. He liked Chinese chicken, and he didn't like Chinese chicken. This whole siman is all about what you like. This is כאילו to say a person dressed, let's say, his chicken with honey, and there was leftover honey. What's the ...? Yeah. No, in culinary oil that has meat taste is very ... So the ... When you make oshpalov, that's the primary, that's the goal. Right, that's what he's trying to say. Yeah. And then the oil has the juices of the meat, and then it mixes with the rice. That's right. Okay. So the ... became a ... He has to talk about shemen, that this is delicious shemen, and the ... says, no, this is not delicious shemen. Okay, they're fighting in ... over what tastes good, what doesn't taste good. Very good. You like it? Good. ... ... ... game. ... ... side. Oh. Does that seem as a condiment? Sound familiar? I asked what type of shemen. Yeah. Nobody argues.

I guess Chacham Chaim is nobody. You said it yourself. You said nobody argues. But the Chafetz Chaim, I guess Chafetz Chaim is nobody. Diek in your words. Chaim says not true, yeah? Go ahead. Continue. Yeah. The basar. Read the Rama inside. Oh, so read the Rama inside. V'yesh omrim, the basar eino pogem b'dvash atzmo, rak mashkeh hana'aseh mi'dvash. What does that mean? The sweat? Mashkeh, whatever drink, a honey, chmeisfas, I don't know, some kind of honey liquid. Again, says Rama, no, it is pogem. Not pogem. Everybody's fighting over pogem. I guess in the cracker they liked it like this, they didn't like it like that. Very strange, siman, no? You realize how I'm adding one detail to another, like they're arguing and fighting over flavors and taste and what they do like, what they don't like. Ein b'emshel Rama, shebasar eichala b'yayin. No, that's not it. Hava ligam, no, that's no good. Oil. Basar. Sir, you told me you don't talk about basar b'chalav, isn't that what you said? In the end he talks about basar. In the end, okay, it's the end. Now it's beginning, it's a good enough answer? Yeah, still going, still going. No color anymore. Somebody doesn't want to be known. Okay, go ahead. Next. Next. I'm pretty... ...chalav b'kamah. Chalav. Yeah. Then the ... comes along and says, No, no, no. Chalav b'teireh. Chalav b'kamah. Oh, that's, yeah, good. What? Chalav with what? It says chalav b'yayin. Oh, yayin. Chalav b'yayin. Doing good, you're doing good. Go ahead, nu. I am piskei teshuva. Mister, what's going on? You disappeared me a month at a time. I think you go to... Emergency? Family emergency. Okay, okay, everything all right? Good, Baruch Hashem. Go ahead, yeah. I'm ... Yehuda. No. Shnei ... not true, not true. Shnei ... here. Chalav and chelev. Well, both are no good. In the wine. We're talking about wine, right? Why would you add chalav to wine? You want to ask me what is going on here? This doesn't bother you that we're sitting here and saying, No, this is good. Let's go ask Mr. Chefman, and then ... the chef says it's good, yeah, good, and the ... the chef says it's no good, the shach says it's good, good, and it's not good, and my wife said it's good, no, your brother said... It sounds like you're sitting at the table, you guys discussing halacha. My wife said it, no, your brother said it, he said it, I said it's good, and I like it, and I don't like it. What's going on in halacha? I mamish, I... Okay, go ahead. He brings, he brings from Acharonim. I mean, it's just culinary discussions, right? B'kitzur. No, b'kitzur. Right, obviously, and everything, we could sit there and yes, no, machlokes. He said yes, he said no. So the question is, im talu l'fi zman hapoiskim, hamakom, right? Obviously, and depending on what your culinary taste of that moment. Right? Okay. Ulay, and this is what I really wanted. B'ma shekasav haPri Toar, se'if katan vav, b'chol davar sheyesh machlokes b'nosen taam lifgam. Ulay b'min b'she'eino mino, shezeh d'Oraisa, az lei l'chumra; d'mino shehavei d'Rabbanan, az lei l'kula. Tami, what's the story that he brings? He brings min b'mino, min b'she'eino mino. The dvash in the part of the chol, right? It's b'mishe'eino mino, which is d'Oraisa, right? And still he says what? Kula. So maybe the pshat is, you need to be a vadai to be meikel. Vadai nosen taam lifgam?

And these are the vadais. No, I mean, whatever it is, these are the argument, the vadais. I mean, if you just know, yeah, no, no, that's not enough. My question is, could I turn around and say, listen, I think it tastes good, I think it doesn't taste good. Can you play that game, or you have to go point to the klal that the poiskim gave you? Or, or what they said you could follow, and then it's not for you to decide afterwards. Huh? Whatever it says. Can I argue with the Ramo and say, no, today tastes better? That's my question. Why not? Yeah, maybe not, maybe not. So you want to do that, you could do it. Go ahead. The Shach does it on the Beis Yosef, so you want to be like the Shach, okay, so if you feel you're big enough, do it. I don't know, I'm asking you. So if the Shach argues on Beis Yosef, so you argue on the Ramo as well. So do it. Good luck. Good luck. Lots of luck. You know, just don't be mefarsim it, because then they'll run you out of town. Do it. What a wild kid. Okay, the point that I'm trying to bring out is, and this is really what I want, you know, the pots of today is not like the pots of yesterday. You want to tell me if I cook honey in a fleishig pot that's clean, it's gonna, you know, the honey, you really believe that? One more time. Have a nice day. Rib steak, today's possibility. I don't think so. I think today's pots, there's no cracks and stuff. It's not real. We just cast iron. It doesn't exist today. You're talking about the clay pots. Clay pots maybe is different. Why is there no writing? That's the one we run out of. Clay pot won't saturate. I just, I couldn't write, I couldn't write. What I'm trying to say is, I'm asking a simple question. Do I have to say, well, honey, pot, buy, luck? Remember, that's really what I started with. I cook honey. In a pot of fleishig, is it become milchigs? Talks about neveilah. Is it sold by basar b'chalav too? Now, is it really that the honey now is a fleishig honey to the point that it tastes different? Do you, [unclear] have a nice day. I don't know. See, I don't—the point, I don't want to say anything. Yatzi, why she is not to say anything. I'm just trying to understand, l'maaseh, can I come and say today, listen, the pot's the honey, and do you think it really tastes bad, the honey? I didn't answer the question before. So I'm just saying, could we say today—I don't have to follow all this because I don't—it doesn't move the taste. Maybe, based on the pot. So you say maybe, I don't know, so say it. What do you want from me? Why am I responsible for what you think? No, based on—maybe. That's why you see the word ulai. You see the word ulai there? Yeah, I don't see how this is what the Rebbe said. This is the ... of safek. What happens if I'm not sure? What happens if I don't know? Right, so I'm asking, what happens if I have a safek if it's a nicein taam lifgam? Maybe it is. I'll say, you know what, today I think we should have a taste. He speaks about safek nicein taam lifgam. What happens? This is a safek. This is a case of prita. The case that we had, was it a machlokes, what's l'maaseh? Should I come and say, you know what, taste it, and if you have a safek, it's already mutar? Is that... I don't know. Or no, well maybe it can be saved by tevash, whatever the halachos are, it is what it is. What I'm walking away is that it seems like it's very attackable, nicein taam lifgam, which means, is it or isn't? It's very hard to understand, touch, but that's what. They're going to argue on this, yeah, this not, here, yeah, and here not, that's what you see. And therefore someone today says, you know what, today it's a delicacy to have honey that has a meat plate. You said the shemen that has meat in it, delicious. I said that it's not nicein taam lifgam anymore. You don't... And if it's a safek...

They said because you're not sure how to pasken, maybe something nice to have l'gav is mutar. If it's maybe she'eino... maybe you don't have to be or musaf or Shacharis, because that is doable. Okay, next.