Chatichah Hareuyah Lehiskabed: Can Filling or Preparation Make Food Chashuv?

Transcript

Can I join in the conversation? It sounds very interesting. Can I be part of it? No? Okay. All right, let's go. This is where I'm giving mussar, huh? I'm really changing the oil here. It's okay, let's go. Ready? Okay, you started ready? I am. When you come back from Miami, are you going to be the crowd? I don't know. I am a chaber. Go ahead. So what is a mechaber? So this is daled and hei, which is pretty much the same, right? Daled and hei. Mechaber, go ahead, read. No, read it from the mechaber, go ahead. I don't even know what it is, but it's some kind of fat from something. You know exactly what it is? The English book that I use says it's small intestine. Okay, but why b'nei me'ayim is anyway already included? It's the fat. Okay, go ahead. U'beramah. Okay, so you read me the Rama. So, let's see the paper. I am mechaber shuman hakata, eino charal. Rama, shuman avaz, nikri ra'uy l'kabel. Okay, so you read me the Rama. So, I have a very hard time in the reading, yeah, my place and your place. Sefardi, Ashkenazi, I don't know. I mean, there's just arguing what my place, it is charal, but your place it's not charal. That's what it boils down to. I understand, but I'm saying, what does it depend on the different places, right? That's the way the Shach attacks it. That's what I'm saying, right? So it's a big chiddush. I know. So that's what I'm trying to tell you. It's hard in the reading to come and say it's just your place, my place. My place it is charal, my place... So, here, kashe l'kabel. שרק חלק במציאות, לפי מנהג מקומו. It's a little bit — I mean, l'choira, that's what it's mashma from the Acharonim, that it's all about my place and your place, right? Yeah? Okay. מיהו עיין תז, סעיף ה'. No? סעיף ה'. Clearly that I can't really argue with the Taz, right, that it has to do with makom and zman, right? Yes, so therefore it's — yes, I guess it is place-related, right? Okay. So you know I'm going to try to introduce that maybe it's not place-related, okay? ויש לעיין — go ahead. Let him read a little bit. ויש לעיין, מהו בכל אלו? What about all these above things? ... מילוי ... You know, kishkes, the same thing, but they put stuffing in it. Whatever it is, the point is, what happens if it turns into a nice chashuv dish now? So the meat itself is cheap, but if you add with it filling, you make it into a chashuva ma'achal. Is this similar to that — I once already saw a Nissan here, there's a Rav problem or something. He says if you add something to it, it makes it ... And in Rav Paldim, in Shulchan Aruch, you don't have to go to Rav Paldim, it's here. Go ahead. You'll soon see. Go ahead. ויש לעיין, מהו בכל אלו? אם מכריחי מילוי. He puts stuffing inside it. V'chein yesh la'ayin, next one, v'chein yesh la'ayin. The עירוב הלבוי בשר ירקות. You put it together with, huh? Soon, in a few minutes, yeah, we're getting here, with basar and yerakos. You add stuff, like you make chow mein with meat. Maybe, maybe, maybe. You're right, the pieces are nothing, but together it becomes plov. It becomes a whole plov, whatever. Yeah? V'chein yesh la'ayin. Sweetbreads, you hear? Go ahead. V'chein yesh la'ayin b'chaleilu. Yeah, what happens if the meat is not— but you make a sandwich out of it, a sub, a sub, hot sub. It's retztach. Okay. V'chein yesh la'ayin. Ah, it depends how you made it. If you would roast this, ooh, then it's a roasted piece. But if you would cook it, it would be...

Let's say you went roasted it, so we say, well, the min is not a chashuv min. Now, I could be mechalek in all these different stories here. Milui. We'll get to it, we'll get to it. Let's see. Milui means in itself is not that chashuv, so you just put something in it, so you made it a whole different food, like almost, right? How about iruv v'livui? It's almost—livui means together with. If you put something with it, it turns into a whole different meal, right? You know, if they used to put franks into cholent in yeshivas. Yeah, it's like a whole chashuv thing, franks and cholent. I know you guys can handle it, but they used to do that. It's supposed to be a better cholent with the little franks and cholent. It's gonna have no taste, you know that. Now, how about sandwich? Sandwich. All these cases are—each one I could say maybe this, yeah, maybe not, you know. Schnitzel sandwich. Yeah, right. So what, can you say the schnitzel itself is not something chashuv, but once I make a sandwich out of it, it becomes chashuv? Maybe. Or maybe the piece of meat, the chicken, is not chashuv, but with a schnitzel it became chashuv. I know, that's what I'm trying to tell you. I know, so that's what I'm trying to tell you. What happens in all these cases, right? These are good questions. Okay, go ahead. B'svara, yesh לחלק בחלצי. B'svara we could say this maybe yeah, this maybe not. This yeah. We could say this is not exactly; this maybe more, less, more, you know, we could play around with the sevaros. Next one, ayin taz. Steve, go ahead, read it. Okay, so you put it in the computer on the watch code, see, Retzuos. I told you Retzuos. Okay, go ahead, yeah. V'ayin tov, seif katan yud here, that what? Something that the mechaber b'harbeh chatichos, yeah. And if you only have one of the harbei, right, you put five pieces, it's chashuv, but one itself is not chashuv. What happens with that one, right? It's charal, right? Iru rak chatichah mehem, hava charal. V'ayin nekudas hakesef, seif katan beis, ... he saw that they are, right? Yeah, good. This is what you showed me last week, when I was speaking to Rabbi Avichai. Tomar, tomar, chumashir? Chumashir? No, I see it through the bag. Through the bag? Through the bag, because it has such kedushah. What's with the chumashir today? You have to leave? What time? Five minutes. Okay, so we'll do the chumashir and then we go weiter, yeah? Here's the chumashir. Unbelievable. Tremendous. No, no, no, no, no. Who am I to give the Rav a bracha? Who am I to do that? ... No, no, no, no. You know what I mean? ... the picture, the picture. No, they don't have the picture in Bnei Brak. In their houses they do. Not they carry. You carry it. They say, I'm just standing because I'm not smart enough. You explain to me how this is the blissful family. In Hebrew, the name is on the bottom, and in English it's on top, no? Yeah, I don't know. I did read the English one because I can't read Hebrew yet. I can't believe you. Aren't you one of the talmidim of Rav Chaim Kanievsky? No, I'm not. I'm not. I only met him. Why did you consider me my... Myrid, Myrid. Okay, let's go. Come. That's tomorrow's daf. What? If you read the other way around, ... Okay. Go ahead. Okay, go ahead, Nu. If you have one out of— if five of them are chashuv, but if you only have one...

Sure. The ... ben Shlema o chatucha, ra'ui l'kabel. That's how the ... Right. But then he says he doesn't agree. Right. He agrees with the other one. Chatucha eina ra'ui l'kabel. ... Ze ein ... Which means they're arguing if you have one piece from five, five is reuyah. Means if you give five pieces of chezvas of five meatballs, one of it's one of the five, so the meatball is a chashuv thing if it's in five, and you only put one. So that's what the ... That's what you're saying with the ... If you give somebody one, it's not chashuv, but two in a box, that's a ... Ulay yesh lechalek v'kaseinu hanal b'zeh. So according to this, it's meyridik. Why? Because the way it is, it's not chashuv, right? But if I would add another thing to it, then it turns into chashuv. So maybe that's what the point is in all these things. In itself, the way it is, no, it's not. But if I add stuff to it, maybe, yeah. I understand. I'm telling you, so we could start working with this concept of ... I didn't bring, I said could be, could be. I hear that this yesod, that the way it is, it's not ... But if you're not ... ... It's not exactly the story, because there the min is a ... right? In itself, with more portions of it. Right, so I'm saying the case that ... I'm just, okay. I understood this ... is speaking about, you have kavod, meaning kavod. So, so peace itself is not. That's what I just said. So what's the point? It itself is not realis, God. If you add extra stuff to it, meaning, so maybe if you add vegetables to it, kebab, four slices plus, maybe it's the same yesod, or maybe not. Okay, continue. Ayin tes. Im hamilui mechabdin, adayin eino charal. That was the first question. You asked me where I got it from. Milui, it's there. And here the Pri Megadim is sif se'if katan. You have it? So he's saying, the im nitchachech shel avozeres batel chashuv, so milui Rashal, כיוון שאם נתחלך אינו חשוב מאיזה צד, כי חשובה בשלמותה. גם אם נראה, לאן יודעתי נראה, גיפלה איפך, ועיקר כיבודו באור העורזה אחר שחותכין אותו לחתיכות לתקנן, איננו רואות שמכבדין בכל מקום באותן חתיכות המתוקנות בפני אנשים חשובים. That was the chips back in the day. Okay, vadai hu chatichah re'uyah l'hiskabed, afilu b'nitchachah. V'neir משום הכי לא הביא הרמ"א בשולחן ערוך דרכי משה חילוק זה, אף על פי בדרכי משה הביאו להביא קרבו, ואין להקל בזה, כן נראה לדעתי. He doesn't speak about milui then? See if you can... Yud beis? I read yud. So yud beis, right? Have you wrote here yud? Yud. Yud. No, the Taz there is in siman kuf yud se'if katan lamed. Ah, kuf yud. Yeah, kuf yud. The ... nikra al Hashem. ... Rabbi Yochanan ... כן. קודם רש״ל, דקרקשתא, אף על פי דהאידנא אין מוכרין אותה אלא במניין, בתולה, כיוון דאין מוכרין אותה אלא על ידי מילוי, והוא מדברי המרדכי פרק קמא דביצה. Right. The certain things that you eat with derech milui, he's saying. Pretty clear, right? Now, sif seif daas here in siman ... bet, as how you read it, siman ... bet. Yeah. ... What’s ...? Who? ... Who cares? Whatever it is, that food, yeah. That’s it. The kishke, they put the kishke in there. That’s it. ... Right now, if it’s a kishke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, continue, continue, yeah. It's tzarchi. It's tzarchi. He's saying that what? It's it is or it isn't. That's what the Sifsei Daas argues on this Tosafos. Right. I'm talking about the Pri Megadim. Sifsei Daas in Kuf Yud. Kuf Yud? That's what I thought. Is there a Pri Megadim here? Yeah. You just read the Pri Megadim? Sounds like even if you're going to ... it's not טוב. Right, and what does the Taz say? It is. It is טוב. Just read Taz in Kuf Yud. Yeah. It says, 'Keivan d'eino ... ela al yedei milui, v'hu ...' which means even if it's with milui, it would not be טוב. Right, so they're arguing on this yesod, right? Okay. So the question is, what are they arguing about? So I want to tie in throughout this whole thing that the Taz is l'shitaso, and that the Pri Megadim is l'shitaso. The Taz always understands we look at right here in front of us. Is it really? Is it not? The Pri Megadim says we look at the min. Which means what, that there's just one standard? Meaning this min, okay, now this thing in front of us is ... so therefore what? It doesn't help me. I wrote the opposite, because you have to understand what time I write this, right? So you erased it? I did so. Pri Megadim. Yeah. So Tosafos says it's totally ... like, can you give an example? Something that, yeah, the Torah says with the milui it's charal, right? Yeah, because right in front of us it's a chashuva food. You know where I saw this? I'll tell you where I saw this. Chicken capon. You know what chicken capon is? Chicken breast. It's a small piece of chicken, which is really not—if you put it, it's almost dietetic. People won't even eat it, you know that? Stuff with rice. But they stuff with rice and they stuff with kishke. It's a delicacy, like they fight over it in my house. That's where I got this whole concept, yeah? So the Taz is saying right now it's ... Right now? With the kishke? Without the kishke. I'm saying, let's say it got mixed without the kishke. So I'm asking, what happens if it got mixed with the kishke? With the kishke, there'll be machlokes? Yeah. With the kishke? I think so. Because the Taz will tell you it's not batel, and the Pri Megadim will say, who cares? Who cares what you put in there? Yeah. That's what he says, right? He says just because you're going to put something in it, who cares? Assuming his case is that it got mixed without, but— I know, but I think it's with both. Okay, let's stop here. How do we pasken, Rabbi? I don't know, it's a machlokes. You don't want to be machmir, you don't want to be machmir. Do I know how to pasken? I don't know how to— you know, the truth is, is it really so negeia, all these stories? It's not. That's what I picked up. It's very hard in taruvos, because a lot of it is just not negeia anymore. Right. Where is such a story going to happen? I texted a rabbi in Israel. Factories. Now I want to tell you the real truth is, a lot of rabbanim don't even know this stuff. It's not relevant for them. Right. Not relevant, but you want to learn the Shulchan Aruch. You need to get smicha together with your bar mitzvah, you know. You need smicha, so this is what you have to learn, okay? Now, do you get mitzvahs Talmud Torah for sure? Can Rabbi just go back, as far as, yes, can we go back to the, on the hot dog? I'm not clear why hot dog not and pig in a blanket, yes. Well, what I was saying was like this: the hot dog, all right, on one hand, it has a tremendous ma'alah, and that is, it's not even a piece of something. It's a whole thing. It's a hot dog. It stands for itself, like almost, okay? On the other hand, the problem is it's just not a chashuv food. And what raises the pig in a blanket to... But it is a chashuv food because they serve it at chas— it's supposed to be like a real delicacy. I don't know about by Sefardim, but by Ashkenazim it's like a thing that they give, they walk around giving it. But the best way, it's not on the taste; it's an appetizer. It's not something that's— Appetizer, chashuv thing. Chashuv, you give— even an appetizer, if I have a big Rosh Yeshiva come to a house...

Whatever it is. That's what it says. You'd be mechabed an arei chashuv with it, I think. This isn't something I would put on a table for him. You wouldn't? Picking a blanket? So when you say chashuv, it doesn't have to be a ben Torah. No, but it's because you think chashuv yeshiva is a ben Torah. You're saying, I could give a thing in a blanket, because I know also the word pig is in it. I don't know what you call it. Let me tell you something. In the outside world, this is a maichul chashuv ad me'od. What? Pig in blankets. Hot dog in a blanket, the wrapped hot dog. They serve it at weddings. It's called an hors d'oeuvre. It's called an hors d'oeuvre. That's right. And the guy who walks around with it is wearing gloves with an earring on the wrong ear. All right, whatever. The point being— For us, it's for us. We don't publicize it. The point being, the point being is, if you came to tell me pig in blanket, it's chashuv, because you have a whole different way of eating. It's a whole different— Right. So that is false. That's why you don't— So whatever else it is, I don't know, some other food that you guys put together with— So schmorgasbord type of food, is that chashuv? Why not? Of course it is. But it's not—it's the meal with other— I mean, it's called an oila al shulchan melachim for it. Really? That's what I'm saying. Seemingly you have to tie into the— This was a shaila we had Rabbi Ben Sussan. Is it a similar sugya? I think so. Chasan, famous— In my mind, yes. I'm paskening, okay? In my mind. So Rabbi would say hot dog is not oila al shulchan melachim, and— No, nobody serves hot dogs at weddings. They serve pig in blankets. Oh, pig in blanket? I personally— Frank in blanks? No, it has different— But it's still a hot dog. It's tiny. It's not a full hot dog. No, they have the full ones also. It's a chashuv maichal. It's a chashuv. Okay. And also, what about when we were doing the—sorry—when we were doing the sugya second se'if last month, and I don't remember who it was, who taught in the Oruch HaShulchan that says l'maaseh all meats fall into the category of— Oila al shulchan melachim. Yeah, it's like a special rule. This is opinion. Who, Reb Elsky said that? Why? Because it's a chashuv maichel. There's a thing I have to see with... I'll show it to Rebbe when I find it. Could be. You know, his yetzer hara was not very big, meaning, you know—no, really, I think, you know, to him, you know, any piece of chicken was a chashuv maichel, you know. There's a sheet. I just gotta find it. I saw it on this... I believe. I'll find it, I'll bring it to Rebbe. Okay. All right, let's stop, and let's start the Chumash, because I...