Hilchos Taaruvos: Beriah and Chatichah Hareuyah Lehiskabed After Cutting or Cooking

Transcript

Okay, Kuf Aleph, סעיף ... Okay, so let's go, because we're gonna tackle the siman. We're gonna do this, maybe we'll do it again till we get it clear inside. The reading, very important, the reading. Okay, get the Aruch HaShulchan out, because I want to see how the Aruch HaShulchan writes. You know, the Aruch HaShulchan had a classic, prolific, you know, kesivah. That was the maila of the Aruch HaShulchan. The way he writes over the Shulchan Aruch is classic, all right? So open up to his seif, and we'll do that after we finish grinding the halacha, the reading, okay? All right, so who's starting to read? Go ahead, Azai, take it away. Every word, slow reading, go ahead. No, no, first do the siman inside. Bring that beriah and chatichah re'uyah liskabeid, yeah? Lo batlei. Yeah. It's good, it's a good point, yeah, go ahead, yeah. Lo batlei, davka b'odam shleimim. Oh, that's only when they're still complete. So the first thing is when you read this, you go, Hmm, let's put them together. Mechaber has this fixation with putting beriah and chatichah re'uyah liskabeid in one bowl, all right? We saw this before, we keep on seeing it. But here it's even more because there it's in the reisha; here it's almost like the halacha is the same. He wants it to be the same halacha. So go ahead. Mechaber: shekala beriah... go ahead, Azai, v'chatichah re'uyah liskabeid yachad. It seems like they're identical. Mihu... Go ahead. New ayin. Mishpas haizav, seif katan yud alef. That's not true. They are extremely—not extremely, but there are many differences in halacha, and that is: beberya chaser tzaf migufa lo havi beriya, uvazo ma she'ein ken becharal. Okay, you want to read it inside? Somebody, go ahead. You read it inside. It'll be the other one, the next one. Come on. Seif katan yud alef, yeah. Could be it's you. I do this—I don't have a Shulchan Aruch. Go ahead. Read it. Go ahead, read it. ... בין בשלימה או חתוכה ראויה להתכבד, ... ... בין שלימה וחתוכה אינה ראויה להתכבד. ... Give it to me. Read it. You saw it? Yeah. Read it again. Read it again. Okay, so: בין שלימה או חתוכה ראויה להתכבד, ... ... בין שלימה וחתוכה אינה ראויה להתכבד. ... So whether it's cut or whether it's whole, it's not really להתכבד. ... פוסק ... שלימה ראויה להתכבד. So, kivan d'eina mechabdena b'peticha, achata al habed, v'gimel lav reuyot l'hiskabed. Ze emet. Yeah, this is real. This is true, true. Okay, so he's really going on that Tos, right? You want to read me the Tos? Right, so that's the one. It's Yud Aleph? I think it's Yud Aleph. I told you Yud Aleph. Remember, I made a siman once on it. That's it. It is Yud Aleph. Okay, so do me a favor, read and pay attention to Yud Aleph, and that is: chaticha reuyah l'hiskabed, when it's chopped up, done. Chaticha reuyah l'hiskabed, we have to still see if it's reuyah l'hiskabed. Right, that's the point. You're missing — it's not beriah, that's it. It's not complete. By beriah, one leg is missing, it's done. It's not a beriah. Chaticha reuyah l'hiskabed.

To separate the leg from the chicken, the whole chicken, you have a piece of leg. It's still a tiny piece off. It's still real. It's still סקאב. Okay, so that you saw clearly, right? Yeah. Okay. So let's read now back the Mechaber. Let's do reading, because this is our job. Our shiur is all about reading. So what does it say? So this is not really 100% true, right? It has to be שלמים, but if it's this what? He says נתרסקו, since it's mamash chopped up. So what's the first case that he brings? Go ahead. נתרסקו is chopped up or grounded? נתחתכו. It doesn't say נתחתך. That's right. Okay. Now you understand the reading? Yeah, but it says נתחתך, and he puts beriah together with... נתחתכו and נתחכך. So what's the chu? The plural is going on the beriah and the thing? No, I'm reading it as... I know what you're reading. That's what I want. The piece itself is chopped up into many pieces, not the small. Okay. So this, nobody reads. Your cheating books will not give you this. Why? Because it's the beauty of the reading. Something is missing, because it says נתחתך. It says beriah, and then you look at the Pri Megadim based on that Taz, right, that there's a chiluk between beriah, and it says נתחתך, and the answer is נתחתכו. Unless you learn נתחתכו is not going back on beriah and חתיכה ראויה להתכבד, the plural, but rather נתחתכו is plural pieces. But if a small thing got chopped off it... In case the sofer so good, okay, that's ha'arah number one and two. You got it? Huh? The traskum means it was like ground up, okay? Now what would be the difference? So number three is the difference. U'veirachilu, the berya talui b... v'charal beroyu lechaber. Okay, sofa, read true. Next. U'mechaber o she'ein it... yesh la... What does that mean? Afilu im nitrasek kedarko. You know, when you cook something, it disintegrates, it shrinks, I don't know, stuff happens to it. V'hainu b'shaas machmas bishul — it's not b'shaas. Hainu b'shaas... machmas... whatever. B'shaas u, u machmas bishul. Just add a vav in there. So let's see the Gilyon Marsha that brings your hero, the Beis Yosef, b'shem Mari. Go ahead, yeah. Gilyon Marsha. Oh, happened bishul. So it's the same piece, and that's how it cooks. I know, it's the same piece, but that's how it cooks. So adayin haveh beriya. On the sheet I wrote to you — I didn't say it's chaticha re'uyah, I wrote it's still beriya. Why not? It's still there. That's it. That's what happens. Gilyon Marsha brings the Mahari, the Beis Yosef, the paskens like that. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Habinat adam choleh. What could be the argument? Why does one say whatever cooks, yeah? Where's the cholek? He says it is batal? It's not batel. It makes sense. That's what that's a pshat, that everybody... Well, on your page, Reb Yehoshua from the Beis Yosef says not like that. So it can't be everybody. Could it be everybody unless you're not gores the Beis Yosef anymore? Is that the new mahalach? We learned daf yomi, we don't care about Beis Yosef anymore? So read it inside, because don't blame me for it. I don't want to be blamed for things I never said. Beis Yosef, read it again. I have to say it again because you said nobody. You made a claim in court, like the Democrats claim, right? They claim that—what are you talking about? The worst war crime that he ever did was to kill this Salamanov, whatever his name is, the salamander over there, the one-handed salamander, okay? So the question...

Which is, ooh, tremendous war crime. Nah. So here too, what is that? You said everybody, I don't know, Gilyon HaShas. Go ahead, read. Read it again. Go ahead, read it, Gilyon HaShas. Yeah, because a bishul. Lo batel. Lo, huh? Lo batel. It's still beriah. So does everybody say what you— no, not everybody. And who is he quoting? ... Shame. Maria. So it's not everybody. Good? What are they arguing about? So I would say, right, I mean, beriah, that's called shalem. What's called shalem? What shalem means, you need to see all his hairs on his head. Right, that's what it means. So whatever shrinks it into it, that's called shalem. Sometimes if you freeze broccoli, the ice pop out. That's right. And it's no longer beriah. That's right. Not eating broccoli, everybody. Go ahead. I know, but I can't eat after you told me that the ice pop out. I heard that when you bring a nice car next to your neighbor and he doesn't have it, his eyes pop out also. Now go ahead. Mihu, bechatichah haruyah liskabea... From here it's mashma only by beriah, yeah. What are you talking about? ...bishul. You can have a piece of meat on a bone, and because of the cooking it just falls off the bone. Is that what we're talking about, or we're talking about something else? I think it's more that it shrinks. I don't think that it... I think it doesn't shrink that much. Sure, it does. Meat? What are you talking about? You ever see a roast that shrinks into nothing? Talk to your wife; she'll complain about it, that it shrinks into nothing, shrivels, almost as bad as an old man, the shrivel of an old man. Shenimach al yedei habishul, it also gets cooked by life. It says in the Gemara, shenimach al yedei habishul, yeah, lo havei charal. So here it's interesting, huh? According to this Gilyon HaShas, we have another difference between beriyah and charal. I thought in this Pri Megadim he said אחרת. So let's see again, yeah? Yeah, what does it say over here? It says here, ...that ... עדיין ראוי להתכבד, ודאי לא בטל. That's chatz, that's when small, a small thing fell off. Chatz, that's okay, chatz. You're reading chatz, read, yeah? Chatz. But let's say it shrunk and shriveled. That could be different. You said you wanted to read. It says, ניטל כזית. We didn't say shrivel. Read it again. ניטל כזית. Don't say shrivel. Read it again. It says, ניטל כזית. Doesn't mean shrivel. Shrivel means it went from a big piece of steak and it turned into something you need a magnifying glass to serve on an Ashkenazic food plate. Go ahead, the kasha. Yeah, go ahead, please, go ahead, the kasha. It's kabeh, missing the two dots. Ro'ilus kabeh. Who cares? Well, what kind of conversation could you have? Yeah, yeah, nisak, misu, whatever it is, is it ro'ilus kabeh, yes or no? That's all. Finished. How could this conversation even exist? Bishlama by beriah, it's a conversation because it's about... This is a question: ro'ilus kabeh or not ro'ilus kabeh, yes or no, yatza nisht, okay? Yad Yehuda. He's a big quoted sefer in Yoreh Deah. Everybody quotes. He's a big guy. I don't know who he is because I don't know histories, but Yad Yehuda is every third word in the Ashkenazic literature books. It's probably most quoted, Yad Yehuda, no? Your cheating man doesn't quote Yad Yehuda. Go look. This Yad Yehuda is the most famous Yad Yehuda. Great. Great. It's amazing. What are you talking about? It's amazing.

It doesn't quote the Yad Yehuda here. Wow. All right, so then your shardy book, the cheating book that's bringing it, you don't have to know. Okay, Yad Yehuda, go ahead, yeah. ... minisrasek. You ground it, and then you put it together. How about... right, burger. This is... None of your cheating books talk about burgers? No, it's very annoying. It's for myself. But you want to know about burgers, right? So what about burgers? It's chopped up, but now it's a whole burger. So what does he say? The dafka debeitza. It's just about maybe a little different because it's one on top of another. No, no, so they have like this thing when they put ground meat together, kebab. Oh, so that's what it is. Shish kebab, kebab, kebab. Okay, go ahead. When a guy eats three shish kebabs, what do you call it? Baba metzia, baba metzia, baba basra. Go ahead. The mechaber... ad shenehevda tzurasa. Go ahead, no. Oh, so let's read the next piece, the next piece of the mechaber. Also, I want to taina that could be also it's talui in this shaila a little bit. It's definitely not whole anymore, right? You definitely chopped it up, but you put it back together again, right? So the chibur al yedei... so l'choira this is really the topic. If we look at the shleimus hadavar, maybe it's not a shleimus, unless you look at it as glue. It's egg-like glue? I don't know. Could you sell a broken object that you glued together and sell in the store as a complete thing? Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe, yeah. Maybe that's the shaila. To the buyer. If it's a normal thing. Yeah. So let's say you took hamburger and you glued it instead of putting egg in stead. That would be okay? Okay, let's go weiter. It's necessary for a burger to have egg. Yeah, but that's how you put it together. It has to stick together. It just does. Some people use bread, some people use... Oh, so whatever. I don't mean egg or whatever it is. Whatever gluing agent you use. In Ashkenaz they use real glue. Okay, go ahead, yeah. You never had Ashkenaz meatballs? Those things are glued together. Paste. Go ahead, yeah. No, but you said nevdetzuras, and you skipped one word there. Oh, so till it lost its tzura. Okay. Now, is that important in chaticha haruyah l'hiskabed, or is that important in beriah? It could be in both. So I can hear where it's really a sugya in beriah. What's the difference, nevdetzuras, whatever it is, it is. What's the difference? It has to look a certain way? It has to look like the meat before you cooked it? Who cares? Whatever it looks... So it's mechlokes. If it's nevdetzuras from what it was, it's not mechubar anymore. So the word nevdetzuras could be interpreted two ways. Even the nevdetzuras... From its original state, or neveilah tzurah doesn't look good anymore. It looks like something you wouldn't want to touch. You hear the question? What does neveilah tzurasa mean? It lost its original state, or neveilah tzurasa means it lost its tam. Like, you look at it and you go, Oh my God, this just doesn't look right. Why can we say pashut means neveilah tzurasa? That's not the way you would serve it. Oh, not the way you serve it. Anything that's that and beyond is already... Okay, so I see you didn't learn the siman in Shulchan Aruch, because there's a machlokes right on the spot if this is going only on beriyah or even on chatichah haruyah liskabeid. That's the machlokes, that's the shailah. Why is neveilah tzurasa a sugya in chatichah haruyah liskabeid? Who cares? Go ahead. Mechaber: ad sheneveilah tzurasa, ayin Pri Megadim, hanaal, shekai al beriyah, lechatichah haruyah liskabeid. It's going on both, because that's the reading. Isn't that the simple reading? Meihu, ayin Biur HaGra. Go ahead, read the Gra, read it. Lo kai. The Gra is very easy to read because it's one word usually. Lo kai.

Let me, the gra. Yud zayin. Lo kai ela achaticha haruyah l'hiskabed, v'ksiv man shechoten. Which means by beriah, right, we don't care about nevdah tzurasa. That's what he says, right? It's only going on what? So heftach, nevdah tzurasa means it doesn't look appetizing, so then it has not lo beriah. Unless you learn nevdah tzurasa doesn't look like the way it does, and then it's only beriah. Depends how you understand the reading. See, you asked me a job, you gave me a mission. See, your mission is to get me every Yalkut Yosef that was ever written and printed. I'm gonna have a museum of Yalkut Yosef. I'm gonna make a museum out of it. I'm gonna have every Yalkut Yosef that was ever written and printed. That's your job. My job is to teach you how to read. So the cheating sefarim are not gonna read for you this. What does nevdah tzurasa mean? Write this down. Does nevdah tzurasa mean that it lost its form? Does it mean nevdah, that it became, like, disintegrated tzurasa? Or does nevdah tzurasa, it doesn't have its glance; it just doesn't look like anything you would serve to a human being, okay? So you're shaking your head. I mean, whatever, I'm joking. You know, food could be delicious, but if it doesn't look, you wouldn't serve it, right? A lot of women say, Ah, come on, I can't serve this. And what does the guy think? Who cares? I'll eat this up in a second. It's great stuff. It has to look nice. Rav Tali Trup used to say, What's the difference between the food at the restaurant and the food that his wife makes? Sure, of course. Ever since there were mouths to eat, there was restaurants to feed, okay? So what is the difference, right? So you guys would say, What are you talking about? Restaurants are worse. Food at home. We guys say it the other way around, but I'm not going to go there, okay? But Rav Tali said there is no difference. So then why are you paying extra for a restaurant? And the answer is for the fork on the side of the plate, because it's put there nicely. Rav Tali Trup used to say, It's the napkin, the folded napkin. You're paying extra for that, okay? So the same point is, who? Nothing. You have nothing to do. You see that bookshelf full of sefarim, and you have nothing. There's nothing in that shelf that you could think of that you could do. It's an amazing thing. Did you finish all your... like, Vayechal Elokim melachto, there was nothing left to do after six days of creation. You're in that state of mind. You have nothing what to do. You're done. Vayechal, malkil mikol melachto asher asah. He's finished. You need structure? So sit down. Give you structure. Sit down. Take off your coat. That's the first structure. Sit down, and I'll give you what to learn. Sit down here five minutes, and after I finish with them in five minutes, I will sit down and give you plenty what to do for the next few hours. So sit down. Why not? You said you want the structure, or you don't want to learn for a few hours. Say that. No, I'm saying, I don't know. It's people are in and out. He's more—he's a structure person. Who's people that are in? Okay, so let's finish, let's finish. Okay, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. Go ahead, yeah. Yeah, continue. I am mechaber. Oh. Read me the next mechaber, yeah. Oh, if you chop it up in order to mevatel the issur, no, that doesn't work, right? Because ein mevatlin issur lechatchila. Why not?

No, but the pshat to do to mevatel issur. Yeah, ki— No, but that's the whole thing, is that a mix. You have issur mixed here. How do you want to make it? Right, so you can't be mevatel it by removing it, okay? So I wanted a taina that from beriah I understand, from chatichah haruyah liskabeid, it's not a chatichah haruyah liskabeid. So watch the issue. And the answer is, you see that there's a metzius. It's not so much that the metzius is not a chatichah haruyah liskabeid, but it's a din of heter. It's the way how to be matir something. Truth is, this is a little bit hard lomdus for you to really, like, understand, but try. Try to go into the world of Lithuania as they would do in the yeshivas. If it's a technical problem, it's not ruyah liskabeid, so you weren't mevatel issur, there's no issur here anymore. It's just not ra'ui l'achilah anymore. It's not ra'ui for charal anymore. Unless you learn it's taka a din. That's what I'm telling you. Got rid of the issur. Mashenkein here, it's now a problem bittul. Right, right. A status of problem, and then you see that af al pi kein, and that's a raya to the first thing I told you on the se'if aleph. What did se'if aleph remember? Din chatichah haruyah liskabeid. Din. It's a special din of bittul. It's a special din of bittul. Remember that I told you that? This is chorev. You see that beriah, it's a din bittul. The Mechaber is learning that they're both dinim of bittul. Good? You got it? Clear? Clear? Yeah? Could be clear. Could be clear? It couldn't be clear. It should be clear. It should be clear. You get it? Yeah. Okay, so say it again. Nissan, say it again. This point, by beriah, it is what it is. I don't understand. You're right, you're being mevatel it l'chatchila. Okay. You want to know if there's a din ta'aroves, and the answer is, kol zman it's chashuv. It's not chashuv anymore. You undid it. Now you have rules. Again, it's a status, not issur. It wasn't intrinsically also like an... Right, but once the issur gets mixed in, it is issur. That's what he's saying. So that's what I'm trying to bring out, that you see it's a din bitul. Chatichah ha'ra'uyah liskabeid, yesh bitul, not bitul. And that's how seif aleph really brings it, right? Din chatichah ha'ra'uyah liskabeid. Din. It's a din. It's a din. It's not just a metzius. It's not just ra'uy liskabeid is chashuv. See that it's like beriah according to the Mechaber. Next one, next. V'yesh la'ayein. Is he going on beriah that's asur? Because the truth is, where did he say it? And what did he say? It's not clear, right? It's not really clear what he's referring to, right? Continue, continue. V'gam yesh la'ayein im karak al risuk, or gam al... So what's the reading? Is it going on chituch? Is it going on risuk? What's it referring to? You see the question how to read? Go ahead. Show me, show me. Read it again. Yeah. I didn't say there is. I just want to know the reading. First get the reading. Before why, first get the reading. Can you read when it says that it's all about miskaven and no good, what's he going back on? So which one is he? He's going on chituch, he's going on arisuk. It says arisuk, right? So that's the question. Read it again. Did you read it? Good. So that's going on chituch, and that's going on what? And the question is, is it going on beriyah chatichah riskah? Next one. Oh, why did you talk about chituch? Why did you go to this risah, which is a great question. It really needs to be, why did he change? Yeah, it's a good question. Go ahead. Ayin Taz. Oh, so the Shach...

The Taz both say, what's the chiddush that we don't say mevatel issur l'chatchila? What's the chiddush, yeah? Loimar she'eino davar sheyesh lo matirin, v'lo batel afilu b'she'eino mino. Which means it could even be a mino in she'eino mino. Beautiful. Yeshar koach, hatzlacha and bracha. Thank you. Beautiful. This is your own sefer now. This is yours. Beautiful, beautiful. Keep on learning, and yeshar koach, hatzlacha and bracha, tzaddik. Beautiful. Go ahead. Continue, yeah. What's the Shach and Taz saying? The Shach and Taz are saying, read it. Why should I tell you what they're saying if they could tell you what they're saying? Oh, you see a big chiddush. It could be, right, that you would come and say, not like the what, like this issur v'heter, that what? That it's only b'mino lo batel. But if it's shelo b'mino, then it would be batel. Okay, so read me again the Mechaber and the Rema. I'm sorry, read it again, yeah. Yeah. Doesn't make a difference what it is, yeah. V'hu shenitrasku, shelo b'min, niskaven levatel ha'issur, aval im niskaven l'kach, asur l'mach... even hu shelo, mekaven l'mi shenitrasek bishvilo. Okay, makes no difference. So what does he want with this? Says the Taz and the Shach, what does he want? D'loyka issa b'heter, it says that what? No? That it's only, by davar sheyesh lo matirin, by davar sheyesh lo matirin, it's only b'mino, but shelo b'mino, it would become batel, right? Nothing, I'm just reading. So far I'm just reading, I don't want to say anything. Not yet. So far I'm just saying, what does the Rama want? Now what does it have to do with this topic? It has nothing to do, risuk or not risuk. You know where this belongs? The beginning. I know. Something's weird going on. The goy knew how to learn. He says, I don't... You know who knew how to read Shulchan Aruch? The Gra. He says, what are you talking—how did... Nothing that you just said, Rama, flows in this seif, has nothing to do with this seif. So what is it? Someone wants to say, toi sefer. The Gra says toi sefer, I don't remember who says. Okay, now you look at the Taz maybe. The Taz says toi sefer maybe. Yeah, see. How did this come in? This is the beginning of the chaticha re'uyah l'hiskabed, yeah? So therefore he says, bitul chatichah... Oh, toyus sofer. Pretty mistake. You don't like something, what do you say? Delete. Erase it. Yeah. You're not allowed men and ladies dancing together. Oh, you don't like that? Erase that. Yeah. Go ahead. Why can you say what the Gra says? What's wrong with saying what the Gra says? Gra's really saying the same thing, but just saying it more... Yeah, saying that. A different... this, whatever, okay? You know what's strange? Both him and the Shach... okay, both him and the Shach talk about chatichah re'uyah l'hiskabed. Why do you have to bury it? You should have said, go with the... both the Taz... inheritance doesn't belong here.

All right. So, עיין ... דאס, yeah? Yeah. Pri Megadim says, daas sif katan yud ches. So here's your homework. Is there any way to understand this Rama is really in its right place? Nobody. I guess we have the right to say it. Okay, good enough for me. Or maybe. Or maybe. You know, let's see how the Aruch HaShulchan brings all this, because he wanted reading. He said he wanted reading. Okay. So for good, so for good, clear? No, they're not interested in bringing ... here? Maybe, maybe they're not so interested in the whole ... Maybe it could be. How about Nisrach, same thing, if he brings one case in it. Chaticha reuyah l'hiskabeid, af im nisrach ma'at. Yeah, there's a case we didn't talk about here. You know what? Read the whole thing. Let's see how the Oruch HaShulchan, how he read. How did the HaShulchan HaBair read it, and how did the Oruch HaShulchan read it? Go ahead. He brings the bishul. He brings it in there, okay, yeah? Dato lo chashivei. Mihu, lo dami beriya lechatchila ra'uy l'hiskabed. The beriya. Lo dami beriya lechatchila; it's not the same. The beriya, it's batel, ma she'ein kein — we spoke about all this, right? U'vechaticha re'uy l'hiskabed, dafka k'shelo yishair chaticha gedolah, aval k'shenish'ar chaticha gedolah, ra'uy adayin l'hiskabed, v'hu ke'ma she'nitba'er mikzat. Good. Chen yesh chiluk l'hefech. See? Write this down. The Oruch HaShulchan says I can go the other way too. Miran makes it that it's all the same. And here we're going to learn not so pashut; maybe it's the other way. D'beriya shenisrecha, adayin shem beriya aleha, ad shetisaref shelo tehei re'uyah l'achilah klal. U'vechaticha re'uy l'hiskabed, af nischamah ad batlah michashivusah. U'vezeh nireh l'hiskabed, pri megadim... So I skipped this. I don't know why I didn't see it. Okay? You want to write this down? Write this down. Ayin sif sei'if. Write it when we write the chilukim, where it's mashma they have the same halacha. We said not so simple, right? V'ayin sif sei'if. He quotes another one, sif sei'if. Yes, ifsidas. Yes, sipkan tesvav, right? Another one, that by beriah that starts to, you know, ruin, who cares? It's still beriah. Not fresh. It's not fresh. So beriah is still a beriah. Ma she'ein kein, al chatichah reuyah liskabed, you would have a problem. You can't serve it. Okay? Okay. So we'll stop over here, exactly 12 o'clock, and tomorrow we'll do the next.