Hilchos Vestos: Fear, Siluk Damim, and the Requirement of Bedikah

Transcript

Mipnei pachad. Rigia shaas vesto, einoi choyshesh lo. Choyshesh. Okay. So I always had a question, ... here, I just didn't understand. Why do you have to talk about nichpas b'machpis? Mipnei pachad, just say it. Im yevchidah, she became scared. Mrs. ... she's holding in a cave because, and the cave is because she's scared. Huh? It says, pashut pshat, whenever a woman gets scared, it should be a problem. We can talk about that. There is different types of fear. Maybe, maybe. The Meiri, daf tes, speaks about two different types of fear. We'll talk about it. So einoi choyshesh, it's not a real vest, so you don't have to be choyshesh. Einoi choyshesh. Hacha, yesh omrim, davka im avar havest v'loy badkah v'loy hirgisha, tahorah b'loy bedikah. Aval l'chatchilah, l'chatchilah tzricha bedikah, tzricha bedikah. So I have a simple shaila on this also. What is this l'chatchilah? L'chatchilah is a vesting halacha, meaning it's—there's a special halacha called l'chatchilah b'di'eved vest. I didn't know such a thing as l'chatchilah b'di'eved. And Hilchos vestes, it could be maybe yes, maybe not vest, and therefore l'chatchilah yes, l'chatchilah b'di'eved not. What has that to do with vestes? I don't know. In Hilchos vestes, prishah סמוך לווסת, it's all not nogea, all these things. You know, you should be machmir. Is this a l'chatchila b'diavad in Hilchos vestes, or it's a stam a zehirus ba'alma you should go? You mayor the shaila? Pashut shaila. It's a very strange... All right, let's see. Says the Hagoah, yeah, Yud Aleph, yeah. Eina chosheshes, lo kakas b'sheim haRajba, d'afilu l'chatchila eina chosheshes. V'havu k'moi muberes l'sif zayin. It's like muberes. Now what does muberes have to do with this? Huh? I'm saying, why? Huh? What do you mean you have another sh... I mean, muberes and mesulekes dam. Huh? I'm saying, but in which nekudah? I'm saying she's nichnas b'machbis, and she's scared, so therefore she's called a siluk dam. She's called a siluk dam. Slow, slow, I'm trying to get to something. So she's called a siluk dam. She's called a siluk dam. I mean, it's not the exact same story, right? I mean, a muberes is the taich that she can't have dam, right? She's pregnant, she can't have dam. Mashenkein over here, it's something which is holding back the dam maybe? Is it holding it back? Or the body isn't working, and therefore it's not shayach to have the periods, the cycles. I'm saying this on purpose. I'm trying to get to something. Because the question is, let's say we don't discuss getting so nervous. What happens would be a different heicha timtza, which akev, which puts a plug, which puts a plug on the vestes. Again. Not C-look, C-look. That's what I want. Not C-look, C-look. We're going to discuss. This is a big ra'ayah. The Rishonim Acharonim is telling this siman. You want examples? I'll give you examples, very simple examples. Let's say a woman takes pills, right? Pills are hormones. Hormones basically work, l'choira, the most common ones work that they— What? Not like pachad. Not at all like pachad. You know what could work like pachad? Let's say she takes, let's say, a zrika. There's a type of shot that they take that holds back, holds back the cycles, holds it back. I believe, I believe that there are certain pills that the kallah takes which hold back, which is not C-look, but holding back. It just holds for longer.

I believe because I'm not 100% sure of the mechanics of it. The condenses the blood that doesn't allow anything to pass. Exactly. It solidifies our blood clots. Our blood clots, exactly. That's what I'm getting at. It's not taken, and that's what pachad does. It's exactly what I'm getting at. It's exactly what I'm getting at, because there's different types of... Either there's one thing that you can take, a pill, that will take away the cycle. In other words, it will change the cycle. But then they have something which restricts the cycle, holds it back so it should come at a different time. That's a whole different... That to me is more, and that's what I'm trying to say, דומה to... Huh? It's different. It's different. That's what I'm getting at. But he compares it to muberes. That's what I'm trying to say. ... והווה כמוי מוברת. ... אלא שאתה... soon see inside the mekoros, לממשל זה מחסיד יצחק, חלק א', if I'm not mistaken. Remember? Who brings it down? Oh, he brings it down? Maybe I saw it here. I haven't seen this in a while. I don't think I saw it here. What is it? He brings the Mechas Yitzchak. What does he... that it's good or it's no good? It's no good and he's doicheh. Okay, why? Because that's the way we learn a pesukim, right? Everything I said is in here. ... because of the pachad might leave, and by pills it's not shayach, so ממילא it's not... I knew, I remember when reading it that he was omer on the sugya good, I remember. How is muberes working? Huh? Very... nothing, no. Muberes... no. What muberes? Explain to us. A man. Muberes means is the cycle is finished, the egg. It's the hormones. She becomes like a man. Dam is... That's what the... ... It's not oitzer, it's not oitzer the dam. It's not that the cycle's there and there's something which holds it back. Okay, so let's read the rest of the Taz. Let's read the rest of the Taz. What about ...? You know, even though we don't have ... He's really big. Okay, let's go weiter, yeah. ... Anyways, the seif zayin, ela shetur kasav, what? It says something else there. Can you ... the dam, you know, why do you ...? Can you say that ... can use more than ...? More? Even type of the keys, but what's the difference? Why not ...? Who? ... What's the difference? ... is the taich that there's something in her system which makes it that she doesn't have vestes. Pachad is nothing in her system that makes it. Pachad is that something outwardly, outwardly, causes an inner reaction. The blood should hopefully held back. That's what I'm asking. So that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that is what I'm pointing out. The fact that we're comparing it not to ... but only to muberes, I understand, but what do we see that we're comparing it to muberes? You see that there's a comparison between this case and muberes. That's this seif. You want to know how to learn this seif? Comparison to muberes is what this seif is all about. We see that it's comparison to muberes. Ela shetur kasav b'zu shechaysheshes l'vest. The Tur writes that kasav shechaysheshes l'vest ela she'im avra yom, u'k'mo she'amar Rambam. So you see clearly that it's chaysheshes l'vest. Chosheshes l'vest. But the pshat is, if avra yom, then you don't need it. So what's the nafka? It's like the first way we learned. It's not a lechatchila to get that. So chosheshes l'vest. If it's avra yom, it's something else. Why? What's the difference? If you compare to regular woman, avra yom. I'm saying, a regular woman, avra yom is asur. I'm asking again: if you're chosheshes l'vest, so why would it's avra yom you're not choshesh all of a sudden? If bishleimah if you learn the Ramban's din is only lechatchila, okay, so that's lechatchila halacha. It's not a machlokes. The Torah is saying shechosheshes, but if avra yom, then you don't have to be choshesh. So why not? If you're worried, you're worried. If you're not worried, you're not worried.

So again, so then it's even after. I mean, what would be the difference between that day and the day after? It shouldn't make a difference. Because it's not a vadai פסח, חשש. So whatever you have that, you have the next day also, no? It's only safek. Even if it's a regular normal vest, it's only מדרבנן. Here it's a safek if she's one of those women that sees דם חמוד or not. So, בשעת, he's ... Why? Because בשעת is דאורייתא, that's what you're saying? בשעת is דאורייתא. I don't know why it should not be. The way the Beis Yosef learned it is like... Yes, I'm asking. I didn't answer anything. I'm saying, what's the... all I'm asking, what do that day and the next day? Whatever, you have to continuously be חושש for it, no? Because she didn't have her הרגשה. The answer is good, so why that day, yeah? She might. That date is not finished yet, I'm saying. The day is not finished, she might still see. Yeah, but whatever might have been still lasts into the next day, no? Maybe she still had it before, you're saying, so just check it in case maybe she did that. Like a regular woman, yeah. Maybe it's קיל, maybe the day later is more lenient than that day? I guess so. The Shas vest is a lot different than... I mean, ... have the same halacha, isn't it the same halacha? That day, and then whatever happens the next day is still also because of that day, no? So let's see a little further. Let's see a little further. וכמו שאמר רמא, אחר כך, בשם יש אומרים, והקשה בית יוסף... בגמרא יפרש... דין היסת במכה, דאין צריך בדיקה, היכא נחלאי, בעיניה, והרבה בפלפול. So בקיצור, there's a stira. There's a stira in one place it says that היסת נח... נחמית is אסור, and one is מותר. So what's the difference? So why the Rama say bedi'eved, if we learn, okay, that you don't — it says clearly, me'ubares, you don't need bedikah. U'mai richa mizal d'bach kasav, d'ho'ila tuva Roshkes haChesed Gemara. Okay. V'la'aniyas da'ati, nireh that dvarim kipshutan. Legabei siluk dam mishum pachad, nigleh me'eicha shevaisha sha'ah shezak la'baal yarech, hapachad miliba. It's gonna go away. V'keivan shehu sha'as veses, efshar shelo titma, ki einah b'zmanah bo. V'lo amru bo shecherda mesalekes dam, me'eisah kol sha'as haveses b'cherda v'lo hifsikah mimena. She has to be nervous the whole time. V'zeh davar barur, mipachad b'techilas sha'as haveses yatza min hapachad b'socho, u'b'zman haveses lo azikah shehanashim mechazekin mekom harishon. Al kein, litshamesh achar she'avar kol sha'as haveses. Ma she'ein kein b'me'uberes, shekvar hi mesulekes dam. Ein sha'as la'asosa afilu b'sha'as haveses. V'nimtza she'ein din me'uberes la'osa b'machbe'ela, achar gemar charadah. D'hainu achar shiur haveses shehu siluk damim. Kolach tzefi darka, b'soch achar b'charadah, v'zu afilu teiga. Al kein, pshat b'Gemara b'me'uberes latchila, me'osa b'machbe kol zman haveses, ach kach ein tzrichah bedikah. V'zeh nachon b'... L'fichach ligish b'davar, because for nachonim ra'ui likvoa kein halachah. So the chiluk is very pashut, that by siluk damim she's taka mesulekes dam. But she'ein, over here — why does he say that she's not a mesulekes dam? That's what he's being mechadesh. The kasha was maybe she's mesulekes dam, and kamashma lan she's not a mesulekes. Very nice Torah. I wish we could say Torah like that all the time. The kasha is, it's kashya. Torah says you're right, it's not. We understood this. We understood it is a... if she's taka felt safer in the middle of the... she has to check afterwards. If she feels what? If she starts feeling bitachon poked in the middle of the shas haves, she has to do a check. She has to do a bedikah afterwards. So what's your teretz then? It's not a complete siyum, something which is very, very... The Gemara is learning one from the other, so just like that one's legamrei, this one's legamrei. Teretz is because the teves... What? Right, so the answer is you learn out for the achar bedikah, you don't learn out for the shas bedikah. That's what he says b'feirush. And like what רבי יוסי שאל the question, you do learn out even do it b'shas. And he's answering that... The teretz is only bedi'eved, not l'chatchilah. So basically he said the premise, the premise is the wrong premise. Right, and רבי יוסי also said... Right, so now the question is the premise is the wrong premise, isn't it? That's what his question is: what am I, a stupid guy? If my premise, רבי יוסי says it's supposed to be this way, this way, don't change, tell me it's different. So what's רבי יוסי's question? No, no, no, it's a funny shakla v'tarya. He's absolutely dumb. You're right, just taka an absolute dumb.

He's so poshut, he says that no one answered him. You know why nobody answers? Not because they're not answering him. You're just telling me that it's not that way. So it's not saying she's not a mesulekes damim. She's saying it's a matzav that could change very quickly, that's all. While she's scared, she's a mesulekes damim. I'm asking you a question. That's not called a mesulekes dam, no. B'shaas maaseh she's a mesulekes damim. Not mesulekes damim means even in the matzav itself she could start seeing. If she's scared, but she still could start seeing. That's called not mesulekes damim. That's a biseister. The question is, how can we call her a mesulekes damim? Because he's right, charadah is not mesulekes damim as long as there's charadah. That's a true statement. So what's your kasha? And he paskens like that, the Beis Yosef. Which means she holds you're always in that state. But if she's paskening, not for the reason that... You understand? It's the two ways how to read it. It's two ways how to read it. It's a whole different... Is the taich we're afraid that suddenly it'll stop? Is the taich that we're afraid that she's living with her husband and then she'll be relaxed, and that itself is good. I didn't hear. It's like a... in the taich that says she may be a pacha meli... because the husband? Or she's with her husband, the pacha meli, or it means to say that while she's with her husband, two ways how to read it. It's just punkt. Is it punkt? But it's not only out of nowhere it's going to happen. I think it's because out of nowhere. You know where I think the difference would be? I'm asking, is the pshat we're afraid that Adam, it'll just stop and that moment she'll be with her husband? That's the whole fear? Or the pshat is because she'll be with her husband, that will cause. You know what the nafka mina might be? If it happens by itself, so she's really not called a mesulekes dam, because it could change. Then we're back to the kasha. No, we're not. But then we're back to the kasha. That's what I'm trying to say. Then we're back to the kasha. But if you learn that the taich is that she's a mesulekes dam, but it's possible for it to make herself not a...

A mesulekes damim. So what happens in such a case? That becomes the nidah. That becomes the nidah. Does she still have to worry about her vestes, a vest which she is capable, and it might even be that she'll change it? Does she still have a status of a mesulekes damim? If you can't differentiate between pachad anyway, what do you mean? According to the... you can't differentiate between... You mean daf tes, but before the... what are you saying? Okay, you can't differentiate anyway, so what's the difference? So there's two types of pachad. Meiri's teretz is that there's two types of pachad. So the Shevet Halevi quotes it. Not here. The Shevet Halevi here also quotes it. I have it in the tes, chelek gimmel. Bitusa. He brings the two things. There's two types. There's behalah and bitusa. She'll become kooks or she'll become afraid. Now these are very dakusdike things. I don't know, it's very hard. Here's my shayla like this. It comes out that she could be a mesulekes damim, but since it might be, v'keivan shehu shaz vest, efshar shetitma ki b'zman haba, v'lo amar bah shecherda mesulekes damim, el im haysa kol sha'ah ves b'cherda, v'ze davar barur. That line in the Taz is mashma a third thing. You know what it's mashma? That she was never called a mesulekes damim bichlal, because the taich of mesulekes damim is irrelevance to the vest. A mesulekes dam doesn't mean that she stopped bleeding. That's not what a mesulekes dam means. Mesulekes dam means l'gabei vestes d'rasos. Let me tell you, let me tell you what I'm saying. I have a yesod in this sugya. I'm still tired, so I'm trying to, like, deliver it properly. Forgive the delivery, but the vort is very good. I was thinking that there's a chiddush in what is called a mesulekes dam. Is a mesulekes dam in the taich metzius? She is or she's not. And then there's a sevara called asur lishtamesh. Or there's a sevara called mesulekes damim is the metzius is or isn't. But mesulekes dam is a din that paturs her in a vest. Means she doesn't have the issur vestes because she has the din of mesulekes dam. Mesulekes dam, it might be a din, mainly saying a valdige thing. What is a din mesulekes dam? What gives a din? So that's what his shayla is. Gabi, siluk dam mishum pachad, ... shehazel yeitzer pachad, v'kimu shrus v'hasvesta, efshar she'as tit... v'lo amru shecheredim... Muberes is the one with stale changes? Ma she'ein kein b'muberes shekvar hi mesulekes damim. The what? Yeah, but I think by muberes the taich is she's a mesulekes damim, she doesn't have a vestes. There's two sugyas. There's one sugya called a mesulekes damim that doesn't have vestes, and there's one sugya is that a woman that has vestes doesn't have to be choshesh she's a mesulekes damim. That's the way I learned this. I hold there's two sugyas. There's one sugya called a mesulekes damim ein lah vestes, which is what I spoke to you by muveres. That's what I was trying to get at, the last sugya. We compare it to muveres, but we're not mamash comparing it to muveres. What does that mean? What does it mean? Yes and no. And the teretz is, there's two things. There's a mesulekes damim that doesn't have vestes, and then there's an isha that has vestes, and that has a din of a mesulekes damim. You hear it? You know what the nafka mina would be? Are you with me yet? Okay. There's such a thing called a woman who's a mesulekes damim, so meileh she doesn't have vestes. Right? So vestes doesn't apply. Remember we spoke about ... vestes. Muveres does. Okay. Then there's such a person who has vestes.

She has a ptur because she's punkt a mesulekes dam. I'll tell you what that affects. If you learn that she's b'chalal not vestes, so I asked you the kasha, what's the chibutin l'chatchila v'di'eved? It's different. But if the taich is that she is a mesulekes dam, meaning she has vestes, but she has a ptur, she has a din of mesulekes dam. She has a din. There's a din of mesulekes dam, which means, then there's a l'chatchila. There's a chibutin l'chatchila v'di'eved. Why? It could always change. So how come Choshes would have changed? Meaning, once it passed. A kasha. I'm choshesh that it might change. Right, so I'm answering, because the pshat is that you don't have to be choshesh. On the other way around. Let me just think a second, I'm very tired. Give me a second, I'll tell you. If she didn't have vestes alone, there would be no l'chatchila, no v'di'eved, there would be enough. She has no vestes. Where's the l'chatchila and v'di'eved? But if the taich is she does have vestes, but she has a halacha of mesulekes damim, that's a din that we gave her that she's a mesulekes damim. So if you want to know what she is, she is, till this moment, a mesulekes damim. But a mesulekes damim could change any minute too. What was kol zman we don't know she did bleed. Kol zman we don't know she bled, so mitzada she's a mesulekes dam. But the moment that will come, we don't know what's going to bring, so there's no din of mesulekes dam. Where there's no vest, there's nothing to be choshesh, not l'chatchilah, not b'diavad. Where the she'eilah is, it might come. So on the avar, did it come? We don't know that it came, so we always take on that she's a mesulekes dam. Mesulekes is like a patur. Is she? No, because she has a patur called mesulekes dam. But that's the pshat: kol zman you don't know that it came. Lo yatzau it came would still say she's a mesulekes dam? No. But is there a makom to be choshesh that it could come? If the matzav stops, right? So the whole patur mesulekes dam is not a patur not to worry about what will be. This is a patur that what she is. She's a mesulekes dam, which means kol zman you didn't see she did bleed, so you could say she probably didn't. It's not only b'diavad; it's a b'diavad case. The din of mesulekes dam is only going to get to a b'diavad case. If mesulekes dam means it's a metzius, she's a mesulekes dam, so it shouldn't really make enough to me, l'chatchilah b'diavad. Why? You could say the same chiluk in metzius. Meveres is a process that takes nine months. M'meila I don't חושש for nine months. Mashenken pachad, which changes every second, so m'meila I'm only giving her a din for every present moment. For the future, I said maybe it's going to change. The metzius will change. It's the same chiluk in the metzius. No, I understand that, but the question is something else. The question is, and then you have the chiluk with the eved also. Lechatchila you shouldn't do anything, because maybe this second is going to be a different metzius now. But the eved, when it passed, I have no raya that the metzius changed, so I'm keeping it in the same... Yeah, but I'm going back on the words. So what the words are here: What's the chiluk? She'ein kibum u'beresh shekvar hi asurah. Right, because her process, her thing that's gorem her siluk hadam is not something that all of a sudden she becomes not pregnant. What is shekvar hi? Once she became pregnant, she's going to be pregnant for nine months. She's mesulekes dam. What's the lashon shekvar hi mesulekes? She started already. It's a thing which has a start and a finish. That's what the kvar means. Kvar means it already started. It's already started. The pregnancy already started. What do you want to do, she's going to all of a sudden calm down and not going to be pregnant? Cherda is not. Cherda is every second she is either scared or not scared. There's no such matzav by pregnancy. She's pregnant or not pregnant every second. She's kvar. She's already pregnant. Let me tell you, what I see in the word shekvar hi mesulekes damim is not changeable. I don't see the word changeable. I see that if he meant that, he should have wrote much clearer. See, the way you're learning it is this.

This is change. Only non-changeables. So she said that. She doesn't say shekvar hi mesulekes dam legamrei. What is the kvar? It's not do the kvar. In other words, the way I understand, let me tell you what I'm trying to... A woman who's a mesulekes dam before her vest comes, that means she doesn't have a vest. Vests aren't chal on a woman who's a mesulekes dam. But if the pshat is that the woman has vestes, and we want to say about her that she's a mesulekes damim, and we want to say about her that she's a mesulekes damim, then it's the vests hachal. There's vestes. There's a cycle. But we want to say, since she's a mesulekes dam, therefore she doesn't have to keep her vest. What? No, I say, ba'pach lechatchila she might have to in the future. If she does a bedikah in the morning at night, I will do. She keeps it mamash like it's a regular day. I think she should stop. The next day she's not asur. I'm saying, b'shas ma'aseh it comes out the din has no effect on shas ma'aseh. In the Rama, means negeia to pills and things, but I'm saying before pills, the next day. Again, one more time, and then I'm going to have to stop because I can't take it. Tell me, does your father... who sells pants? He do it to me one minute, takes one minute. It's small. One day. I might need his father. He's doing it for me as a favor. Say, I don't want paying two, three dollars. It's nothing. It's ironic. He's brand new. What, he yesterday, he wants... This is the thing they bought for a month.