Hilchos Vestos: Is Bedikas Yom HaVeset to Detect Reiyah or Confirm Taharah?

Transcript

Shar noshim. I think that was interesting lesson. Not an interesting lesson. Shar noshim. This is all, and then shar noshim. The rest? Shar noshim. No, I mean to say, he meant to say was that it's— say with us, say with us. I feel so far away from you. You're karov. Tamgish karov. You're missing the word afal? No, what's shar noshim? Nothing. Isha, isha, a regular woman. Regular women. So everybody's making it seem like it has to do with the— there's these women and those women. It's like an interesting, maybe just because of the way it's set up, the sefer. Yes? Yes. Yeah, that's what I'm asking. It's like this, this, and this, and then there's shar noshim. This is like the leftovers. Then there's another group after this group. I don't know, it's interesting. I don't know, it's interesting. It's just interesting lashon, shar noshim. Okay. Tzrichos bedikah. Tzrichos bedikah sheyagia havest. They have to make a bedikah when the vest comes. When? Ki sheyagia havest. What does that mean, ki sheyagia havest? Yom vest? Shas vest? What do you say, Rafi? Yom vest. So why do you say sheyagia havest? And— and if it's— he brings two shitos. He brings a lot about this shailah, okay, because I was wondering with this shailah, and the second shailah I also have is, let's say it's yom vest. When? What part of the day? Wouldn't it be nice if he told me that? It would be an interest. In other words, it's not clear. There's not much clear over here. There's nothing. So, shaar nosh, tzrichos bedikah ki, ki sheyagia havest. So what does it mean, ki sheyagia havest? Pashut means yom vest, and when, we don't know. Avar havest. Now, another thing: tzrichos bedikah what? Leshamesh means that's what it means. In other words, in order to live with her, you would need bedikah. Or this has nothing to do with shimush. This is a chiyuv that the yom havest requires that you should check to see what your status is. You say the second. I'm asking the mashma'os halashon. Obviously not to be mishamesh; she can't be mishamesh then that day. Why? What's wrong? The next day. Huh? The next day, nu. Right, so she makes a bedikah. What's she making the bedikah for? For the next day. Why is she making bedikah? Nothing. I just want—why do you think she's making it? Right, so leshamesh machar, that's what it's about, right? What's it again? It's only negea if she wants to continue living with him. So then it should say, if she wants to live with him, right? The only thing is, you're saying it's a sfas yeser, ki you don't have to bring it out. I don't know. I learned the sugya a little differently, and I'm going to prove it to you next week. That's what I thought. I thought it has to do with the zmanim, with the vestes. It has to do with your calendar. The calendar is mechayev bedikah to confirm the calendar. This is not a heter leshamesh. This is not what the issue is. You like it. You saw anybody else that said it? I say good. I'm telling you, I'm saying good. I'm telling you, listen to me. It's years of stuff going on in my mind. I don't believe that this has anything to do with... and biah. I don't believe it has anything to do with biah. How come I didn't see it? What piece is it? Later, where is it? Where did you see it? I mean, on the Shulchan Aruch, I don't know, maybe I didn't see it. I didn't see it. I skimmed through, maybe I went a little too quickly. So why is there a kiddushin? It's 9,000 degrees. Yeah, but I don't count the decimals. There's a calendar. Vest means part of your calendar is to check. For what? That's the dinim of vest. The dinim of vestness is, the whole vest is l'gabei to live with your husband. We understand that. But it's not that you need a bedikah to be matir you to live tomorrow with your husband. It's not a bedikah to be matir you to live with your husband. That's not what this is about. This is that the vest is the calendar. You want to know what the calendar is? That day you have to confirm your status. It is weird you're saying it's weird? You think it's weird?

So now you say, like, Rambam, where the Rambam puts it. Let me tell you something. We're speaking about the issues. Let me ask you a question. I'll ask you a simple question, just throwing something out which we'll get to next week. What happens if a woman could confirm if she's a nidah not other ways? For example, she's wearing underwear. There's other ways how to confirm. When you wear underwear, it ain't going anywhere. That's what it is, okay? Kan nimtza kan hoyah. This is what it is. You still have to have a chibah bedikah. There was a takanah to make a bedikah, baby. The halachah is you have to make a bedikah. Just throwing it out, throwing out things. I'm sure he talks about it. It's got to be that everybody talks. Again, can I tell you what I'm doing now? I'm starting to seeput you. I have many chiddushim bumbling around in my head, and I'm not ready to tell them to you. What is— okay, once you brought him up, what does he say? I forgot who you wrote down that somebody says that you can... See, I'm talking about something else now. I'm talking about the— you see, you're talking about two different sugyas. I'm even talking about lechatchilah. I'm going to clarify next week. It's all next week. We're going to get into bedi'eved. If you didn't do the bedikah and you were wearing underwear, that's what they talk about. That's what the poskim talk about. Some say even so, it's no good. But you say good for— why would it not be good? Maybe because of this reason: the takanah was bedikah. Also because maybe it's still in the beis hachitzon, who says it came out? I have to make sure, bemevuar, that there's no dam that came out of the uterus. I'm going to throw something out to you, which truthfully I didn't think I would talk about it today. I just want to throw it out. What's the reason for this seif, oirech? Bizmanei. Tell me, does anybody know how an eruch comes? It comes by what? By little bedikah stains? How does it come? Gashmi. It comes. It comes like a train. I mean, what are you talking? It comes by gashmi. What are we taking a bedikah that what, maybe orech bizmanei ba? Again, think of what we're saying. If you're tomei, choshesh b'dam, it's always because at the end of the orech also there could be specks still left over. But if you're worried about the orech bizmanei ba, this seif is a pele. You don't have to search with the binoculars to find an orech. There's nothing to search. The bedikah is a search to find maybe the orech came. You don't have to search. If the orech is here, it's on, it's here. It ain't coming as a bedikah pimple. That's not what it's coming in. Maybe not. That's not true. It's just not true. Some women don't have. Let me tell you. Every woman has. You're forgetting the metziut of... The metziut is that an orech comes, it comes. That's what an orech... She feels and she sees. That's it. She feels and she sees. And what are you talking about? What are you... making a bedikah, maybe what? Huh? It's a tremendous chiddush. It's a big shailah. What's your question? You're right, it's going to be eventually a river. That's not the beginning. A river. Yayin ves is beginning staining. You know that that's what yayin ves... Let me ask you, does stains even kovea ves? Yeah, yeah, you think so. That's very interesting. Let's say she takkeh, let's say you're making bedikah and she finds. You're kovea ves with that? I just want to know. Okay, so I want you to write that down, because since you made a face, write it down with the face. Make a funny face next to it and write, v'tzarich iyun. Let's say I made a bedikah, yeah? I make a bedikah, and all of a sudden the rav looks at it and he goes, It's very... Oh, that's your orech. That's how it came. Are you kovea vest? You kovea vest that way? Missing, you're missing. The day of vest, that's what you want to say? We're talking... You're afraid. Why? We're going to search with a flashlight. Is it here? Is it... What are you searching then? And let's say you find... By saying kovea, you want to tell me like she already saw two times good, this is the third time, but it came like as a... Yeah, that's the story? That's what we're afraid of, orech b'zmanah, but you have to search for it? That's what we're afraid of? It's a peldike... There's a lot here, there's a lot here. We're talking about... Acharonim talk about it, okay. Now... ...underwear, so when she's doing... she actually came out... That's right. She would not see. Right. I don't know, maybe... So how can underwear... No, no, what are you asking? Not try, explain what you're asking. I mean, you don't want to go to the bathroom, you're saying there's nothing you can do anyway. She's not wearing underwear the whole time. I mean, also nothing ever happens. You got bedikah, you go to the bathroom, you can also not help. I mean, what are you going to do? Then there's another shaylah, which we'll have to get...

But let's just finish. V'lo hirgisha, shegiyah ves, amarah, ves v'lo badkah. Okay, amarah ves v'lo badkah, v'lo hirgisha, tahorah, v'lo bedikah. She's tahorah v'lo bedikah, yeah? What he brings, what does he bring over there? What is the stam re'iyas ha'eid? It's considered a re'iyas ves. It's a re'iyah gemurah. I didn't learn the sugya; I'm just reading straight from the ... Okay. Because the bedikah is camouflage, the hargashah, and it has to be mamashah. Okay, listen to me carefully. Listen to me carefully. You know what you're doing? Let me explain to you. Obviously you didn't learn the seif to realize that you're really saying what I'm saying, but I'm asking as a question. In other words, I am saying, that's what I'm telling you. You see from here that this is the orech b'zmanah, but that's the chiddush of this halachah, that bedikah to make, Oh, here's the orech. So obviously this is the orech, right? So, lu yatzui if I didn't make that bedikah and it would stain, would you be kovea an orech? And then let's say she starts staining and the next day bleeds. I'm telling you, but let's see the leading, what leads up. That's Rav Moshe's teshuvah. It's a very famous teshuvah. It's not kovea veses, not kovea veses. Even in the techilah ... Okay. But it's not a kesem; it was a bedikah inside, though, no? I'm trying to explain to you. Understand that that's what I'm asking you. On one hand, you're telling me that the bleeding before could be kesem and not orech. Why? Because they are kesem and not orech. An orech is an orech and kesem are kesem. But when it's b'bedikas eid, this is what the— that's what I'm asking you. Then that turns into a veses. That's, you see. It's a tremendous sevara. You don't realize, he's saying what I'm telling you, that you see from here that this becomes oreich, and we have to understand, but how and why. Does he explain how and why? Just says that's the way it is. I mean, it's not the oreich, I know what you're saying, but that's what it says here. It says here, you know what, instead of waiting for it to come, you're gonna search it. But that's not the oreich. I mean, you see it's not her vest. When she sees a dot, that turned into her vest. If she saw that same dot without bedikah. Now you're telling me, hargashah, it's a safek hargashah, you don't know for sure. Why? When you do it, you stick your aid inside. It's a safek hargashah. We're machmir. Okay, fine. Good, but it's a safek hargashah. So why can't we look and say, wait, that's her oreich, that's it. That dot, she went to look all the way on top, all the way by the makor, and look what came out. Oh, her period. This is her period. Every woman wishes she could have a period like that. What are you talking about? What do you say? How did this turn into her oreich? Teretz is, that's what it says here. It tells me, that's what it says here. That's what I'm telling you it says here. The question is what? That's what I'm asking you. What's the pshat in this sugya? Okay. V'lo hirgishah, tehorah b'lo bedikah. She's tehorah without a bedikah. V'yesh omrim, she'asurah ad shetivdok. She's asur till she checks. V'yesh lah veses kavua, o shehu yom lamed, af al pi she'eino kavua, hachi nahug, and that's the minhag. So it's mashma that, avar haveses v'lo badkah, there's a chiluk between kavua and not kavua. What about shaar nashim shebedikah shehigia haveses? Is that kavua or not kavua? You can be chozer, it's mashma that it's both, right? Both. On the avar haveses that you want to be meikel, there it's mashma that it's only when it's kavua. You want to be machmir, it's only on a kavua. But in the beginning of the seif, it's mashma what? Even? Kavua. Or eino kavua, makes no difference. Let me ask you another question. We're afraid of what? What are we afraid of? We're afraid that it might be there and it got lost? Or we want you to confirm your status. Is it about a search and find? Is this what it's all about, the search case? It might not be there, a search and rescue, what do you call it, search and rescue, or whatever you want to call it, right? Where is it? It's not coming, let's go look. You ever see when a noyrech doesn't show up, you start searching, where is he? Maybe he got lost somewhere, right? Is that what it's all about? Or it's about calling up the bus company, Sir, did the bus break down? Okay, he ain't showing up. Is it about confirming, or is it about searching? I'll ask you a question. Is a woman, and I thought you were going to, Gershon, I thought you were going to spring this out, could a woman go and bathe herself on the Yom Tov? No? She shouldn't. Who are you quoting? Read it, okay? We read that.

Go ahead, go ahead, read, read. Yosef Ad Yosef. Who? What's the name to say to him? That's the name to say to him? What is this? From Rav Ovadia Yosef, from Rav Ovadia Yosef. No, what? What is—what is—what's the point? That's all it is. Okay, go ahead. No. It's that piecekeita rajos b'orach. It's the same person? Yeah, yeah. This is Rav Ovadia giving haskamah on this. It is a Taharas Habayis. I think it's gimel siman. Okay. Lachatchila yesh lizaher... ...breichat tzchiyah. Such a tzaddik, I don't even know what a swimming pool is. Breichat tzchiyah, swimming pool. ...pen yavo ha'orech bizmano, veyered ad techizah. It's gonna come out, right? It's a tremendous thing, right? ...mikol makom, im he'avra mitatrachta, o shenichnesa layam, ol tevrichah tivdok atzmah achar... Check yourself out. If you didn't already, check. What is the biur of the machlokes? What is the biur of the machlokes? Explain the biur of the machlokes. What are the arguments? One says, yeah, don't worry, go shower, do what you want. The other one says no. What's the chiluk? I hold that he says, if the taich is we're checking for it, so what are you going swimming for? It's tovel v'sheretz b'yado. What are you doing? But if the taich is to be kovea, there's a chiyuv bedikah. Yom haves, as long as I'm mekayem the bedikah, okay, you know, I'm doing something which might be a problem. You know, I'm doing something which might be a problem. Yeah, gotta turn on the lights. You can turn off the lights a second before; you keep the lights on. Wait, is this talking about an internal washing or just stam? She just happens to be in the pool or bath? Pool, bath. So it's not like it's gonna... Well, obviously it is. Obviously, otherwise you wouldn't talk. Obviously, you're in the shower. You're sitting in a bathtub. In a bathtub. Guys, consider a bathtub, no problem. If it would that, then you wouldn't be allowed. You wouldn't be allowed to... Right, but if you learn that it's a chiyuv bedikah, just a chiyuv to confirm status. Right now she's still tahor. You want before she's matir to do something which confirms taharah. Confirming taharah. So when you go to the... you take it off. Tell me, is there a chiluk between this bedikah and the bedikah shevi'ah nekiyim? Yeah. Could you tell—I remember years ago, years ago, literally years ago, maybe in Lakewood, my brother, he speaks about how to make this bedikah. Tell me, you need a moch dachuk? What kind of bedikah do you need? If you look at the Taharas Habayis, look at Kovod Harav Vadya, what type of bedikah? No moch dachuk. No moch, but something about chilukim. I had a question. If, let's say, she forgot to check and she had tashmish with her husband, maybe this tashmish is a bedikah also. Okay, let's know more. To understand. Let's wait, let's wait. What is he checking? Like, iforach b'zmano, I'm just checking if he's just to confirm, because he's usually, he comes, confirming he's coming or not, right? Or am I checking if he's coming or not? That's okay. And if I'm checking... maybe came. Either I'm checking to see if he came, or I'm checking not to see if he came. To confirm. I know he's coming, but just to make sure, right? Just to make sure. Just to make sure. That's what you're saying? He learned from me how to say it right. He says it right. I remember fighting with him those... Remember I used to fight with him, say it right? He learned how to say it right. I'm so proud of him. You don't realize what he just said. Can you repeat what you just said? Said it good. Value a friend.

I see a minus somewhere else. ... I'm telling you. Let's go, let's get another ... Tamim li, yesh li elef ... al harosh. ... Listen, you hear? Say it again. Say it. Punching that. Be proud of yourself. Now you wasted. Say it! What he said was as follows: If it's to confirm that it is coming, or—I mean, that it—say it—that it's not coming, okay, then she's about to go swimming. Say it the other way first. If it's to confirm it might have came, and you can't go swimming because you're going swimming. But if it's confirmed that it's not here, it's not here. You're right. She did things that might have taken—so what? You need a confirmation it's still not here. Maybe I can do a bedika, throw out the bedika that—it's still good. I lose for you. That's a tremendous shaila. Famous chazonish. There's a whole shaila, can a person go do bedikas one after another, one second after another? And throw it out and not look at it? Of course you want to see afterwards. Can I do bedika, then do one, it's no good, quickly do another one, then do another one, then—eventually it's going to be clear. I got to bleed constantly. Oh, I got a good one. Now I got a good one. That's a different thing. I'm talking about over here, we want to see if she is a nida or not, right? Could she— The pashtus halacha, no one said in Shulchan Aruch, ... brought down that it's asur, because if it's there, it's going to come out. Chazon Ish said it's not ... you clean yourself out. Anybody else besides Chazon Ish talks about it? You clean yourself. What's the worst thing that can happen? Even though she cleans herself off when she shouldn't have done it, it's bad. There's a hefsek taharah. She's not ... she's still a niddah. She'll be soiser tomorrow. But she wants to not be soiser; she wants yesterday. What do you mean? She wants to ... Maybe she didn't start shacharit tomorrow. What do you mean? So she got away with it today. Tomorrow morning she's going to be ... Tomorrow morning that blood that she cleaned off is going to come out again. Who says so? Who says so? What do you mean that she cleaned off? That's not true. What do you mean? Maybe at that last moment she's not clean, and you're counting ... Right before shekia she counted a day that she wasn't clean. Tomorrow she's ... she was tamei. Why? It's clean, and then she's fine to count from today. Again, all you have to be ... as far as ... that you have no flow of blood coming out. If she cleans out the blood from the wall, right, and she's clean by shekia, after shekia she's clean. The next day, if there is a new flow, the flow continues. She would have ... by shekia come out fine.

Okay, so what's wrong with doing it? You have to have it cleaned by the night. I was thinking it's always like that. Let's say she's bleeding at 12 o'clock in the afternoon. Cleaned at 12 o'clock? No, she's tummy then. Maybe she should be cleaned the whole day before. We don't do the next. Her hefsek, she's kavua. Her hefsek. But if she cleaned a second before, that doesn't mean—this means nothing. But you have a problem to bring to him, because if she checks two hours before. Okay, listen to me carefully. Let me tell you what I want. The beauty of this shiur, wake you up in the sleep. I'm waking you up. I just want to tell you that I have a sheetah. I'm not saying halacha l'maaseh, but close to it, that there's different types of bedikah. I don't know about Marien came, but you have to know how to understand it. There's two types of bedikah. There's bedikah after tashmish, then there's bedikah shem nekiyah, something else. There's different types of bedikah. There's different types of bedikah. One is to talk about blood flow, and the other one is to confirm a dayim b'tohorah, a dayim b'matzav tahorah. I think it's different bedikos. But the two is the same still? I don't know. Good question. I remember Torahs Habayis. He says the bedikah—talk about it. Go ahead. Did he say he's mechalek the Piskei Teshuvah? He paskens like the Piskei Teshuvah. Okay, so let's read the Piskei Teshuvah inside. I don't see. Yud zayin. Where is it? Where is it? If יש לה שעה קבועה... Right, so this is the first diyuk: Ein tzarich hakra'os hasha, right? Okay, ein tzarich hakra'os hasha. This is the first diyuk we made, you see? So we're right on the money, right? Remember I asked you, is it vest or is it yom ha-vest? So Rafi said yom ha-vest, and he's wrong. Let's go weiter. Shah kavua, we have ein tzarich bedikos rakos hasha. V'im ein lo shah kavua, v'chein b'ones beinonis, tzrichah bedikah kol ha'ones. D'hainu, shetasim oidacha, v'yihiyu sham kol ha'ones. You like it? ... my dacha. What's the— I hold that he held, and I hold that many hold like this, that this bedikah is like an absolute taharah, which means to confirm the orech. Whenever you have to confirm the orech, you have to take a moch. Whenever it's to be confirming that today is clean still, then it's a bedikah. What is this? I understand. So that's what I'm learning. I'm saying, l'maaseh, it's a bedikah of orech, not a bedikah of confirming taharah. This one, the one she's checking on yom ha-vest, is a bedikah of orech and not confirming taharah. Right. And which one is taharah? No, I'm saying, let's say bedikah shivah nekiyim. No, I was telling the truth. When I learned this, I was clarifying: are we clarifying to find the orech, or we're clarifying to come and say she's still tahorah? This is where the nafka mina is. If you learn it's a bedikah to confirm, it's a regular bedikah. It's a bedikah shivah nekiyim. But if it's to confirm the orech, since like an absolute taharah... Does it have the chomer, the chomer of hefsek taharah? Does it have the chomer of bedikah? So let me tell you, hefsek taharah are more chamur because, for this de'oraisa, chumrah, this is cheskas peshutah, so kol sheken the bedikah is deRabbanan, right? So chumrah should be a weaker. Dilma, or maybe, maybe, side of the bedikah is a little different, huh? Where the pshat is there's a chazkas tumah; you want to be motzi from a chazkas tumah, so there can't be a safek in bedikah thing, because kol zman you have a safek, you're not motzi from the muchzak. Hashem, when she's already muchzekes l'taharah, so to be motzi her, the confirmation might be less. You don't need a vadai, right? What is this? You don't need a vadai. What is this? Which chumrah does this bedikah take on? Would it take on the chumrah of hefsek taharah? Would it take on the chumrah of a—

Of the what? Of the... Okay, another nafka. The one is more chamur than the other, or each have a different...? I'm almost puzzled by this one once. I don't remember. Let's say she makes some bedikos, nevera. And it's what? Nevera, it's worse. Oh, he is right. Okay, so talk to me. Let me tell you, I did this when I was years ago, and I don't have time to do it, so you'll have to bear with... Go ahead, no? How do you look for a bat... I learned it with my brother. I can help you. I did it with my brother. I sat with my brother. I was the only one in Lakewood with the yad. Hashem paid me back. He gave me bucharim. I used to sit in the oitzer of Lakewood learning Yad. Not bad. I didn't even know what the thing is. Never heard of it. I think it's a beautiful sefer. Oh, it's a great sefer. They have it in the library? Here. I had to buy my own. Go ahead, yeah? Read. אם בדקה בשעת וסתה, בעד בדוק, ובתרם תראה אם מצאה נקי, נאבד העד, תבדוק עצמה שנית, ואם נמצאת טהורה, הרי היא טהורה לבעלה. What about the suffix over there? So what's the bottom do? הינה חמש דעות, מסתפק: אם מתחילה בשעת וסתה נאבד העד, אם הוא שיש לה מכה שנדמה שאין ראיה, ממה שנרגישה, דאימור הרגשה כסבורה הרגשת עד הוא, right? כמו שאמרו בנידה. וצריך עיון, וחזר וכתב בזו הלשון: אם בדקה ונאבד העד, אסורה, מכל שכן אם יש לה כתם אף בשעה בדיקת העד שאסור. See, there's a whole shaila when בדקה ונאבד העד. What's the sugya over here? Yes, what does he say? He brings down the tshuvas Maharshal. והעלה לעניין דינא דלא מיבעיא לשיטת זיוחי, אמר שמרה, דבספק ולא קא, אינה צריכה בדיקה כלל, שבוודאי שאם נאבד העד טהורה. He said according to the Rambam then even, right? אלא אפילו לשיטות שצריכה בדיקה, יש לומר דהיינו משום דאפשר לברורי, אבל אם בדקה ונאבד העד, יש לומר טהורה היא, כיוון שאי אפשר לברר יותר, מסמכינן אחזקה טהרה שלה. What did you say? Exactly what I just said. Exactly. What is this bedika? What is it? To be machsik her b'taharah? It's machsik her b'taharah that she can't be megaresh. You're afraid it's going to come, we have to prove that it didn't come, that you can't play games. I lost it. I lost it. It's levarer. It's levarer. It's a special bedikah levarer, that's what it is. It's levarer. ... Fine, she lost. Beautiful. It's not. To be machsik b'taharah is if you lost, you could rely on the chazakas taharah shehayah. It's levarer if the ... and you don't have a biur, you don't create a problem. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. You're missing. If the taich is we're afraid that it came, oir bizmanei ba, I always learned this sugya: is oir bizmanei strong enough to make her that she's officially now not clean till known otherwise, or that oir bizmanei ba isn't that serious here, that the pshat is she's clean till we know otherwise? In other words, which is the muchzak and which is the motzi? Which is the muchzak and which is the motzi? Is the muchzak that she's chazakah tahorah and you want to be motzi here, or she's muchzekes in tumah and you want to be metaher? Rambam says that. This is the hakdamah I want to give you to this. That's why we're going to do this next. This is what I think is the yesod. If you listen to what we said today, you're ready for the whole sefer. Maybe actually this machlokes. You could be also. Asur or not asur, depending on the chazakas taharah ... It's a lot. I'm going to say more. I'm going to say more. I just want to start. My kavanah was to start, okay? I give you a good start, a good hakdamah. I appreciate. For that, maybe, maybe it's.