Hilchos Vestos: Prishah Samuch LaVeses, Onah Achas, and the DeOraisa–Derabbanan Debate

Transcript

A daled, se'if beis. B'shaas vestah, tzarich lifrosh mimenah ona achas, v'lo mi'shar kreivos, ela mi'tashmish bilvad. Tashmish bilvad. Let me show you the diyukim, that when you look at it, right away jumps out in front of you. B'shaas vestah. At the time of her vest. B'shaas vestah. Are we talking about a woman that has a vest kavua, a vest she'eino kavua? What do you call shaas vestah? What do you call shaas? Normally, shaas means four o'clock, 4:01 is when she sees, then shaas vestah is 4:01. B'shaas vestah, right? The time of her vest. So you, chayru, you mean time, time during the day. You know how I know that that's so? Tzarich lifrosh mimenah ona achas. It doesn't say tzarich lifrosh mimenah b'shaas vestah, or tzarich lifrosh mimenah... He's telling you, oina achas, which is im hu bayom, פירוש, מן עושה היום. So then, b'shaas vestah means what? The dakah. The moment. So b'shaas vestah, tzarich, tzarich, lifrosh mimena. Shaas vestah. So I asked you, does the word shaas mean what we think, vest, the day, or it means the moment? L'choira it means the moment. Vestah, do you mean vest kevuah, vest she'eino kevuah? Tzarich, do you mean tzarich or do you mean chayav? Interesting, I know tzarich. I don't know if there's a problem min haTorah. Let's say it is min haTorah, wouldn't you write the word chayav? Does it say tzarich le'echol matzah b'Leil Pesach, or chayav adam le'echol matzah? Maybe, you're right. But maybe if it's derabbanan, you could also say the word tzarich. But if it's de'oraisa, you definitely not gonna say the word tzarich. Good question. Did you think about these questions? Why not? Lifrosh mimena, to be poresh from her. What about she? It's my chiyuv to be poresh from her? What about her? She's not responsible in this. This is not her problem. Oina achas, one ona. We could talk about something called an or zarua. You ever hear of something called or zarua? It's not something that we say. By the night of Yom Kippur, Or zarua latzaddik uleyishrei lev simcha. When you learn Hilchos Niddah and you say the word or zarua, you start to shake, because the or zarua is one of the biggest issues in prisha. Or zarua's oyna beinonis, oyna vest. When do you have to be poresh? I said oyna beinonis, I meant oynas vest. Here it says, oyna achas. What's called lifrosh mimena, velo mishe'ar krovos, ela mi tashmish. If she's asur, so why are you not supposed to be poresh mishe'ar krovos? If someone's asur, so why is it that she'ar krovos is mutar? I'll ask you another question. What do you call she'ar krovos? Does she'ar krovos mean chibuk v'nishuk? Does she'ar krovos mean not mamish chibuk v'nishuk, but other things, harkhakos, negios? Harkhakos niddah. When you are makir—

What are you matir? Are you matir shaar kreivos, chibuk v'nishuk? Are you matir negiah? Are you matir the harchakos? What do you call shaar kreivos? But that is what? That's mutar, ela mitashmish. So somebody here, either the Rama or the printer, or maybe in your Shulchan Aruchs, the new ones, it's like considered regular mechaber print, I don't know. Here it's in Rama print. In the old Shulchan Aruchs, it's in the Rama print, and he sticks in the word mita. Do you have any idea why he says that? Does anybody have? You know a different type of tashmish? What, making supper? Shimush? Service? I mean, what is— you know of any other thing? Let's discuss where this halacha comes from, and then we'll try to understand what Maran Beis Yosef is teaching me in this halacha. Where does this come from? Where does this come from? מאיפה זה בא? The Gemara in Niddah, daf samach gimmel amud beis, says, V'hizhartem es Bnei Yisrael mitumasam. You should pre-warn Yidden that they should be careful, careful from tumah. Says the Gemara, from here we learn out, prishah סמוך לוסת. Prishah סמוך לוסת. Be careful, tumah. Hizhartem, you have to be careful. A woman might get her period, and therefore you have to what? Be poresh. When you read the Gemara, it's mashma that it comes from a pasuk. It's a de'oraisa. V'hizhartem mitumasam, de'oraisa, yeah. The Ramb comes along and says, No. It's only derabbanan, and the pasuk is asmachta b'alma. Asmachta b'alma. Sefer Trumas, as well as many other Rishonim, but he's the famous one, the Baal Sefer Trumas. That's the, like, maybe he was the first one, or al kol panim he was the one who got credit for the bar plugta, the other tzad. It's de'oraisa. It's a pasuk. So we have a question in halacha: is it derabbanan or is it de'oraisa? Prisha, סמך לו ו'. We are soon going to learn big nafkaminas. You know, there's a very big nafkamina if something is de'oraisa, derabbanan. Lahalacha, many want to say, let's line up the Rishonim. Most of the Rishonim say it's only derabbanan. Noidei Yehuda, Noda B'Yehuda, Chasam Sofer says, Let's not line them up. Let's be machria: it is de'oraisa. Noidei Yehuda, Chasam Sofer, especially the Chasam Sofer in the teshuvos, goes with the thread, with the kav—I didn't mean thread, I meant the kav, with the line—that it's de'oraisa. It's kedai to know the Beis Yosef that says that even the Sefer Trumas, when he said de'oraisa, you saw it. Good. Everybody should know that he saw it. What's wrong? No, I don't know why you're telling me that you saw it. You're insulted? Don't be so insulted. Oh, because there's new guys here. They don't know that I treat you this way. You know, he's my son. A father doesn't worry. It's done. You think. What about this one? What about this one? What about this one? You have al pi shnayim edim yakum davar. You have two like this and two like this. Truthfully, if you wanted an edus, maybe you should have one like this and one like this and one like this and one like that. Okay, just leave it here. It's here. Okay, now this one's off. This one's off. It's off. Al kol panim, says the Beis Yosef that even the sefer Terumas—who told you it's d'Oraisa? I said it's mehaTorah. Yeah, yesh lo סמך מן התורה. That's all it means. Ooh, wait a second. Does that mean it's derabbanan in the sefer Terumas, or does that mean that's a chumra d'Rabbanan? We know there's rules that derabbanans which are סמך מן התורה are a little bit stronger than derabbanan. What did Minchas Beis Yosef mean when he said that it's what, even in the sefer Terumas? He's not saying that I'm going to pasken not like the sefer Terumas, but even in the sefer Terumas—meaning, excuse me, he's not saying I pasken like the sefer Terumas—but even in the sefer Terumas, you should know it doesn't necessarily mean d'Oraisa.

Does he mean that it's d'Rabbanan, or does he mean that it's what, a stronger d'Rabbanan? This Rabbeisai is the nidon. Is it d'Oraisa? Is it d'Rabbanan? Is it a chumra d'ika d'Rabbanan? So we're going to have to discuss in Miran Beis Yosef, what does he hold? Does he hold it's d'Oraisa, or does he hold it's d'Rabbanan? L'chora, we could clear and say, well, he's matir shaar kreivis. He's matir shaar kreivis. If you held that there's halacha of prisha סמוך לווסת, then it should be all across the board, right? If you hold that it's d'Oraisa, סמוך לווסת, מסתמא he held it's d'Rabbanan. And how far did the Rabbanan be machmir? Only for this and not for that. Yachol lihyot. It might be, but what does shaar kreivis mean? Are you so sure that shaar kreivis means chibuk v'nishuk, and therefore you're declaring if it's an issur, so why is chibuk v'nishuk mutar? Maybe it doesn't even mean that. Maybe shaar kreivis means a lot less. I'm also going to show you other reasons why it's not so clear in the Mechaber over here how he paskens if it's d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan. But it seems clear in se'if daled that it's d'Rabbanan. אם רגילו לראות בנצח חמה ולא הקימלון שפיר אי קודם הנץ החמה או אחריו. אינוי אסורה אלא ביום. Does anybody know why? Because it's a safek, so it's safek d'rabbanan, l'kula. It's clear that it's a d'rabbanan. This is l'chura. When you look at the Mechaber, the first thing people want to say is, Well, mi, v'loy mishakreves, loy mishakreves. So obviously it's d'rabbanan. Not so fast. Daled? Yeah, pretty, pretty clear. He says clearly, his reasoning is that since it's only a safek d'rabbanan, you don't know, ... ein asurah ela bayom, l'kula. The next day. Why? Safek d'rabbanan l'kula. Let's discuss this, and then we'll have more clarity, more birur in what the Mechaber is teaching us and the halacha l'maaseh. Are you still with me? Barur? Okay. What is the din of v'hishartem es bnei Yisrael? Does it mean, be careful, because the nida might come, and the meilah, the zehirus is an act of zehirus. Tell me something. If a person, if a person is afraid that he's going to be over a certain aveirah, for example, chametz on Pesach, right? He's afraid. He stays home and he doesn't walk into a bakery because he's afraid that he won't be able to control himself. Tell me, is staying home in the bakery a kiyum mitzvah, achilas matzah, v'lo achilas chametz? No. What it is is a heichi timtza that you shouldn't have a problem, right? That's all it is. Yeah? What is bedikas chametz? You know what bedikas chametz is? We spoke about this. Is bedikas chametz a kiyum of not have, of tashbisu? We spoke about all these questions. Or it's just a heichi timtza to make sure that you don't have a problem. Tell me, bedikas tola'im, bedikas tola'im. Do you make a bracha when you're bodek tola'im? Why not? It's a mitzvah. Are you allowed to eat tola'im? The answer is there's no mitzvah to be bodek tola'im. The mitzvah is not to eat the tola'im. And the bedikah is in order not to come to an aveirah. Could you imagine a person checks tola'im and he walks around saying, You know, I was mekayem a mitzvah of not eating tola'im today. It's not true. You want to know what? By checking for tola'im, mekayem mitzvah of not eating tola'im? It's not true.

Again, I'm throwing out examples. You don't have to know the examples. I know that the oilam is cold. I see that they're shivering. If you feel too cold, you could put it down. So close, I don't make it low. I didn't tell them to turn it on. I didn't tell them to make it higher. I'm not. I personally don't know the difference today. Today I don't feel well enough to know the difference. It won't make a difference to me. Okay. You want to know where I got all this information from? We spoke about mekor Baruch in Pesachim and B'dikas chametz. We spoke about this. It says all these yetarei yesodos, that when something is just a heichi timtza not to be over the aveira, it itself is not a kiyum mitzvah. I'm borrowing that lomdus, and I'm asking, by nidah, perisha is the same thing? It's just in order not to be over and fall into issur nidah? Well, the pshat is they extended the din of kirva l'nidah one step further, that even perisha סמוך לווסת. The same, you have to be poreish from a nidah. You must be poreish from a, what, a woman b'shaas vestah. Chakirah she'eilah number one. Let's understand now the nafka minas l'halacha, if it's d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan. Everybody take a look at the Pischei Teshuva, se'if katan gimel. Says the Pischei Teshuva, עיין בתשובת נודע ביהודה, חלק יו"ד סימן נ"ה, שהעלה דמה שאמרו וסתות דרבנן, that even if we're going to say ... וסתות דרבנן. Hainu l'inyan shelo yamrinon shekvar rosa b'shaas vestah. That's only that in case the vest went over, we passed the vest. Now the question is, is she a nida? Should we worry that she saw? And the answer is, vestes d'rabbanan. Why? Mishum d'neged chazakah orech b'zmanei ba, yesh chazkas taharah, because we have a dual chazakah here. On one hand, the chazakah was that she vestes, that she saw. She saw vestes. Vestes d'oraisa means there's a chazakah it's going to come. But l'umat zeh, she has a chazkas taharah. She's a clean lady. You look, you see any niddah over here? It passed, nothing happened. So then we're going to say vestes d'rabbanan. What's wrong? Vestes d'rabbanan means over havest. That's when vestes d'rabbanan, which means the Rabbanan are going to say make a bedikah. What? After the time passed. After the time passed, there's a chazakah that she's a nida because vestes. There's a chazakah that she's not a nida. You don't see the nidus. Harei tahor lefanecha. Vestes d'rabbanan, to mechayev her to make a bedikah, to check. Aber, aval, when it comes the time of the vest, lifrosh, סמוך לוסתה הוא מן התורה. Then it's taka min haTorah, d'chayshinan shema tira v'lo yamrina al haba. Noikin lei b'cheskes tahor, d'atu l'olam lo tira. You like it? Could you say that in this mechaber over here? This is all very good over here. B'shaas vest, tzarich lifshot mimenu eina achas, right? What about over here? Ein asurah ela bayom. Wait a minute. It says clearly it's a drabonon. So there's an interesting noida b'Yehuda, כאילו, I don't want to pasken like the mechaber. Not interested. Mechaber is irrelevant to me. The mechaber seems to say it's d'rabbanan. I'm going to say it depends. It depends. If it's over a vest, then it's d'rabbanan. But b'shaas vest, then it's d'oraisa. Can I ask you a question? Simple question. What's the difference? I mean, if the pshat is that mide'oraisa we have to worry about the vest, so what's the chiluk between v'hizhartem b'shaas vest and shelo b'shaas vest that we don't have to have v'hizhartem as Bnei Yisrael? Not a good question? Again, v'hizhartem as Bnei Yisrael is telling me what?

That we have to worry. Torah is telling me, worry. What does the Torah say? Worry, right? So if I have to worry, then all of our havest the next day, why don't I have to worry? That's right. I mean, you still have the chash, right? Again, you choshesh that it's going to come, right? I mean, it's supposed to come, right? Eventually it's going to be there. So what's the difference, b'shaz vest and shelo ba? What's the difference? Let's discuss what is v'hishartem teaching me. Is v'hishartem teaching me about the nidus, chazakas about it coming bizmano? Or is v'hishartem about zehirus, not to be over on aveiros? Is there anything in the v'hishartem is Bnei Yisrael teaching me that there's a chazakah? Or v'hishartem is teaching me where there could be, or where there might be, or where it's coming or it should come, then we have to be careful. Nachon. V'hishartem is Bnei Yisrael mitumasam. The day of the vest says the Noda BiYehuda is deiraisa. Omar... Vest? No. Why? He says, wait a minute. On one hand, it's oirech bizmanei, but it's supposed to come. But at the same time, she has a chazkas taharah. Avar havest, then we're going to come and say, you know what? That's only derabbanan. But min haTorah, you don't have to worry. I don't understand. If you're supposed to worry, what, she's never getting it? She's this woman who's never getting her period? What do you want? You expect her never to get her period? So if she didn't get it yesterday, she might get it today, right? The chashashes are even more now. Are the chashashes more or less? Even more. Every day that passes, it's even worse, right? So that it's vest kavua or not? Only then. This is what I'm trying to get at. I want to know if vihizhartem es Bnei Yisrael means tizaharu milches nidah, or is vihizhartem es Bnei Yisrael that there's such a thing called a chazkas oirech bizmanei ba? Is that part of the limud of vihizhartem es Bnei Yisrael? What's it nogea? If let's say this woman does not have a vest kavua, but it's the day that eventually she's going to get it, right? But it's not a vest kavua. Is there a din of vihizhartem es Bnei Yisrael? And the teretz is no. And that's what the poskim say clearly. We're going to get to this at the end of the shiur. When something is not barur that it's going to come, to be choshesh for something that might come? No. Vihizhartem es Bnei Yisrael mi'tumasam is not chashash; it's chazakah. And the chazakah, it might be, since she's b'chezkas nidah, she is a nidah. Remember I asked you my question? Is the vishartem es bnei Yisrael that she's already a niddah? Or vishartem es bnei Yisrael is just teaching me, be careful for niddah. This is the niddah. Yeah. Really good. Okay, let's do this one more time. Vishartem es bnei Yisrael mitumas... I asked you a question. What is vishartem teaching? Azhara, be careful not to be over niddah, like check for tolaim not to be over tolaim? Or vhishartem is teaching me that she's already a niddah. Consider her a regular niddah already. You don't know yet what I mean. It's not clear what I mean yet. I'll tell you what I mean, but I mean is the following. Let's say it's not ves kavua, but it's like he brings down, vchi l'olam lo yisira? What do you mean? She's eventually going to see, right? So be careful. Wherever it's probable, we should be careful. We're going to learn that there's no such halacha. On the probables, there's no halacha of prisha. And the nafka mina is what I show you from the next day.

It's only where there's a chazakah that it's supposed to be. Pshat, she becomes a niddah. She's b'chezkas temeiah. A person is not allowed to live with a cheskas temeiah, a woman who's b'chezkas niddah. But then, no. If she's cheskas temeiah, she has to be poirish. She loses it the next day. The next day she's not b'cheskas because she didn't come. She's b'chezkas temeiah. She's b'chezkas temeiah. But is that rabbanan then? No, it's d'oraisa. She's b'chezkas temeiah mid'Oraisa. Afterwards, it didn't come, so she's not b'chezkas anymore because it's not the day of her orech. It's the problem. That's what he's saying. You have a cheskas taharah opposite that. That's exactly what he's trying to say. You have a cheskas orech b'zmano ba, you have a cheskas taharah against that. So now you have sfeikos. V'shartem is b'nei Yisrael is not because there's a safek niddah. V'shartem is b'nei Yisrael is to stay away from a vadai muchzak lihyos niddah. She's muchzak now. She could lose the chazakah because if it didn't come, it didn't come. Not here, so what do you want? That's what he means. There's a cheskas taharah. He says it clearly. The mashma of vester, b'hainu l'inyan shelo he'aminu shekvar ra'asa b'shaas veses. We're not going to say she already did see. It's not going to go that far to say that when it was supposed to be, she's like she saw. She didn't see. What are you talking about? Because that's what it means, v'shartem. V'shartem means b'chezkas that she saw. You learn the poshut. You see, I'm saying 100% the truth. Chazakah means cheskas oirach bizmana bo that she sees. But afterwards, we're not going to say it's as if she saw and it got lost. That we're not going to say. Let's go further. B'shaas vestah. If you hold... What I'm saying is, it's very simple. I'm just trying to prove that vishartem therefore... I'm just telling you that vishartem could either mean be careful from nida, or vishartem means she's bchezkas tameiah. She's a tameiah. She's a nida. Bchezkas nida. You look at this woman. It's not even a raya; it's there. I mean, just have a raya, just have shevuah. If you come to be mechalek between preisha סמוך ל... on the day and day after, you see it's not about what we anticipate. It's not about anticipation. It's about there's a chazakah that she did see. She's a re'iyah, she's a ro'ah. As far as we're concerned, she's going to see. We don't have to wait for her to see to be called bchezkas nida. And therefore the dinim of the Torah is, be poresh from her as if she's a nida. Not anticipation of nida. She is bchezkas nida now. She's in the status now of a nida. Okay, now, the ra'ah is actually... Actually, let's take it this way. When we talk about vestes d'Oraisa, that shita, the sefer haTrumos, yeah? What was he referring to? Was he referring to the day, or was he referring to the moment? You notice, אי נמי תשובה נדה ביהודה, שהעלה דמשמע בווסת רבנן לענין של אמירת שכבר ראתה, right? אבל לענין לפרש משנה, ... ווסת הוא מן התורה, ... אוקיי. Was the Noda B'Yehuda mean the day, or did the Noda B'Yehuda mean the moment? When he says vestes is d'Oraisa, that you have to be poresh, what is he referring to? Remember I asked you in the Rabbanan case, b'shaas vesta, do you mean the moment, or do you mean the entire day of the vest? I cheated. This shaila actually is by the d'Oraisa. The Noda B'Yehuda makes it sound like, yeah, that day is prishah סמוך לוסת, the whole day. The mekor actually of this chiluk is in the Ra'ah and the Chasam...

Sofer brings it down in the teshuvos, and I read it many times. And the Chasam Sofer elaborates on the ra'ah, it's only that moment. Even if you hold vestes d'Oraisa, it's not the day; it's the entire moment. The moment. That moment. She has a chazakah to see 4:01, shas vestah. The morning, the whole day till that 4:01, that's not d'Oraisa. That's not what the de'oraisa is. Now, you have to be quiet. You have to let me talk. You really have to let me talk. Now listen carefully, please. If this is true, are you so clear that this mechaber doesn't hold vestes d'Oraisa? B'shas vestah, tzarich lifrosh mimena עונה אחת. So first of all, I want you to know the word tzarich, I told you, is a good question. It should have said chayav. Maybe you know why he doesn't say chayav, Ilan? Because it's not d'Oraisa, and it's not a chiyuv; it's only an order not to be ... Lifrosh mimena עונה אחת, right? So b'shas vestah, tzarich lifrosh mimenu עונה אחת. Maybe the shas vestah is takke d'Oraisa, and the tzarich lifrosh mimena עונה אחת is takke d'Rabbanan. See, this is what you won't hear anywhere else. When you learn the sugya, you start to think to yourself, wait a minute. You can read the mechaber that's de'oraisa also. Ah, you'll ask me a kasha, so why are shaar kreivos mutar, and why is tashmish asur? Why did the Rabbanan do it halfway? I'll tell you why the Rabbanan did it halfway. I'll explain it to you. Some sefarim is a meridike vort. Kreivos, you could stop. I saw this in the chiddushim of the Chasam Sofer, and I want to use it. It's a nice sevara. Kreivos, you could stop. Bi'ah, can't stop. You know what it says? It's hard to stop. It's difficult. Let's say we're going to be matir shaar kreivos b'ha'iyom. What are we afraid? 401 turns de'oraisa? So be it. But by bi'ah, we're afraid 401 turns de'oraisa. So meileh, mi tashmish ha'mita, that's a problem. And meileh, remember Rabbi Wolkin taught you that this mechaber could actually, if you know the mekoros well enough, you'll know that this mechaber might actually be de'oraisa as well as derabbanan. Did you understand what I just said? Even if something is de'oraisa, the ra'ah. You want to know the ra'ah? סימן קי״א ה' in the Chasam Sofer, huh? Oh, you have the Chasam Sofer on the bottom over there? Yeah, yeah. Piskei Teshuvos brings it down. Okay, קי״א, yeah, maybe he brings it. I did it inside. I didn't cheat from here. I went—oh, he brings the ra'ah. ... Okay, he brings it. Piskei Teshuva helps me out here. You hear? You hear the Piskei Teshuva? So it's only that moment, right? So mimeila, it's very shayach to learn the mechaber that it's d'Oraisa. Rabbi, how do you learn the mechaber is d'Oraisa? B'shaas vesta, tzarich lifrosh min ha'onah achas. By the onah achas already from the morning, that could be d'Rabbanan. And v'loy mishar kreivos. Very good. The only problem is that he should have stressed that b'shaas vesta, vesta mamash, then everything becomes aser. Maybe he holds like that. It comes out a big chiddush that according to the mechaber, b'shaas vesta, you would have to be poresh even from shaar kreivos. The only thing that shaar kreivos is mutar is from when? From the onah achas. We're going to get back to this when we continue. Now, the Pischei Teshuva in seif katan daled brings another nafka mina if it's d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan. What's the difference if it's d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan? So he brings from the sefer Tiferes Moshe, shekasav, Isha kovea veses b'leil tefilasa. What happens if an isha is kovea veses in the night of her tefila? Poor lady, what's she going to do? It's a very big problem. V'i efshar litvalel veses.

to keep your vest, so that would be the nafka mina. If it's d'Oraisa, sorry, you have to get divorced. There's nothing you can do about this. But if it's only d'Rabbanan, so good, d'Rabbanan. D'Rabbanan is not going to be mevatel peru u'revu and children and family and that. Nishkafelech. So you have another nafka mina if it's d'Oraisa or it's d'Rabbanan. Okay. Leil tefillah. Let's say a woman has her vest leil tefillah. She sees, let's say, every Tezvav days, and it happens to come out the day of the mikvah. What do you have different from the sheva nekiyim? Any chidushim? Anything? Okay, this is cheating from a big Chazon Ish. Let's wait for the Chazon Ish. Let's wait for Mariah. Okay, let's discuss this later. Okay, now. Okay. What's the pshat, vestes d'Rabbanan? Why should it be that way? The Torah always talks about chazakahs. Why? Why? Why would you hold that by an isha chazakahs doesn't work? This is the kashya on this seif, on this halacha. Everybody discusses. Lama? You know, people are singing, Lama, lama nikra shmah Moriah. I have a better question. Lama, lama could vestes be d'Rabbanan? Why? How could it be such a thing? If we pasken vestes is d'Oraisa. Meaning, chazakah is a d'oraisa. It's always d'oraisa, so what's the difference? So there's two answers that the poskim bring. Now I'm going, just for the sake of making it nice and easy for you, because it's a slew of Acharonim that discuss it. The Aruch HaShulchan is very clear in this inyan, and he explains that actually the fact that she didn't feel anything, that itself is a siman that she's not a niddah. Ah, what are we saying, that afterwards we should be worried? That's only derabbanan. The chazakah, the chazakah is a good chazakah, but there's a raya against that chazakah. He brings it down, he brings it down. He brings from the Aruch HaShulchan. Who does he bring it from? Huh? Oh, that is the Aruch HaShulchan. Who? I just said that, the Aruch HaShulchan. No, but it is. It's in the... Huh? I don't see. She feels nothing, so what are you going to say, that she saw? What did you say? Could you explain to me what the din of vesartem versus d'oraisa is? You want to discuss that with me? I asked you, if you learn vesartem means what? That we have to anticipate, and the Torah is telling to be choshesh. What do you mean she doesn't feel? I know, but she might feel. What is she talking about? But if you tell me she's already bchezkas nida, that's the taich of oirech bizmani ba, and vishartem to investes deoraisa. Vestes deoraisa means you have to consider as if it happened. So what's the difference what she feels now? It might happen. But if you learn that means that it is, yeah, but she feels nothing and there's nothing, so why should you think that it is? Read me the Aruch HaShulchan. Go ahead, read it. We'll tell everybody where it is. Tell them what siman and se'if. Go ahead. Go ahead, read. So what's the pshat that you do all vestes deoraisa, that she probably did margish and she doesn't know and she doesn't feel and she was busy and her mind was somewhere else, and that's the whole story. How is he learning that the whole inyan of vestes deoraisa is about what? She is or she isn't. She's not. She's not. That's all. She is. But if you learn that it's about what, nu, that it might be, so what is this talk has nothing. It's nothing, not saying anything. Some seifers says a whole different halachah. Some seifers, it's not a real chazakah.

Not chazakah, chazakah. It's a chazakah asur lishtanes. You could start. That's it. That's the way she sees from all her life. Okay, so it's a machlokes, you and the Metzias and the Chasam Sofer. Chasam Sofer explains to me, it's not really chazakah; it's a probability chazakah. If you learn Shev Shmaitsa, you learn there's a hundred different types of chazakos. There's possible, probable, capable, definite, all the things that people use when it comes to paying money. Probably I'll pay you, I'll pay you, it's a guarantee, that's for sure. Till it's not money on the table, don't think you're getting paid. Don't think you got paid, right? Says the Chasam Sofer, this chazakah is in that range. So it's a problem: possible, will be, could be, if be, when be. So it's not a real chazakah anyway. If you look at Rav Avadi, he says, lachroch, vestes d'Oraisa, which is interesting, which is a Chasam Sofer, right? And the Chasam Sofer is saying, but it's a weaker chazakah. So it's like a little bit of a middle thing, right? Because vestes are d'Oraisa, but even a vestes d'Oraisa, you should know that the reason why vestes might be derabbanan is because even if it's d'Oraisa, it's not so chazakah strong. Rav Avadi brings down this Chasam Sofer. That's how he paskens, that even if you hold vestes d'Oraisa, you should know what vestes d'Oraisa means, and you should understand what vestes derabbanan means, like the Chasam Sofer, that it's not— Not serious. This you saw, you saw this inside? Okay, you have to do ... It's a lot of interesting information there, but that's a hakdamah. If I'm not mistaken, from what I remember, I don't think he quotes the Chasam Sofer, but I believe it's Chasam Sofer, meaning it's from Chasam Sofer. Okay. What is the nafka mina l'maaseh if you say ves is Rabbanan for the taam of the Orach HaShulchan, or if you say for the taam of the Chasam Sofer? So the Chazon Ish has different nafka minas. Here it is. Daled, hei, vav. Okay, I want you to do this. Rafi, read it for the oilam a little bit tight here. Daled, hei, and vav, nafka minas halacha. This is what you were talking about. Go ahead, Nu. Why are we reading? Yeah, yeah. Daled, right. Go ahead. Oh. Okay. Right. What does it help you? Continue. Yeah. Is this what you were talking about? This is the one? He brings this down, no? He doesn't bring this case that he's bringing? He would have quoted the Chazon Ish in saying... but I thought it's a פירוש of Chazon Ish. Okay, Rafi, I need your help. I'm a little bit tired. Explain to them the nafkamina of the Chazon Ish. You don't understand it yourself. Okay, so you know what? Explain the nafkamina that he says. Yeah. The Chazon Ish or the Shevet HaLevi? Shevet HaLevi is good enough for the... Basically, if the lady forgets when she saw dam, right, and she doesn't know when her Yom Veset is, so he brings that from Teshuvas Maria Saadah, why? Because most shitos hold it's a derabanan. The prisha is only derabanan. So safek derabanan לקולא. He says muteres kol yom habdikah, right? Then he goes to the whole thing of how she has to check before she does anything.

You don't know. I don't want this. This is cheap. This is cheap. This is not what I want. This is not going to the heart of hargasha. I'm sorry, I thought he was doing better than this. I thought he was going to do better than this. You know what he's doing? He doesn't make the eyestrap on him, and if it's a safek, give no problem. How can we know this? I'm telling you. Okay, go ahead. Rafi, the chazonish, go ahead. Yes, knock your brains on it. Let's go. He does go into the ... I know, I know, it's famous stuff. Okay, go ahead. No, go, no, no, no. Yeah. Right. Right, because since vestes d'oraisa, ... if you hold vestes d'rabbanan, so you don't have to ask, because otherwise she herself will tell you. Okay. Now, what is he saying clearly? Is it תלוי on vestes d'oraisa it was, or vestes d'oraisa being choshesh? Huh? No. If you hold vestes d'oraisa, then you can be ... unless you ask her. Why not? It happened. He's learning vestes d'oraisa means that it happened. Vestes d'oraisa means, prisha סמוך לווס, we take on as if it happened. We take on as if it happened. Vestes d'rabbanan means only that we're choshesh. It's ... vest, it's mutar even בלי שאלה. That's what he's trying to say. We're always worried if you hold vestes d'oraisa. Back. What did happen? It's not about what, is it mutar, is it aser. The shaila always becomes, vestes d'Oraisa, is she a niddah or not? Is she already a muchzak l'niddah? That's the safek. The safek of vestes d'Oraisa is not a safek in her re'iyah. Let me tell you what I'm going to do. I see it's 1:25. I also see that it's going to take a lot longer than I expected. So let me learn a little bit more Shulchan Aruch with you so I can give you what to chazer, because there's what to do here. There's a lot more what to do here. All right? We're going to have to do this chazering. Okay. I have a few more pages here, so I have to know how to do this here. Okay. I asked you a kasha: tzarich lifrosh, right? B'shaas vestah. So I asked you, what happens if someone doesn't have a vest? So first of all, I want you to do seif katan beis, amud tzadi aleph, where Rav Ovadia writes, the Rema also in the teshuvos, chelek beis siman ayin beis, sof anaf beis, is the same thing, that this halacha doesn't apply to someone who doesn't have a kavua dika vest, which of course plays into what we're discussing. If someone's not kavua, but the chashash is there, how come there's no v'sartem m'bnei Yisrael? Who has to be poresh? So we said the baal. It's mashma that the baal. L'choira, if let's say they weren't poresh, and there was a nidus, who has to bring the korban? You would say the baal, right? The baal's problem. So if you take a look, the Rambam, Hilchos Shegagos, perek hei, halacha vav, he writes clearly both of them have to bring a korban. Look at the Pischei Teshuva, seif katan beis. You hear? Ve'im, you have it? Avru v'shimshu ha'ish v'ha'isha, shneihem tzrichin kaparah. They both need a kaparah. Kach kasav haShach b'seif zayin, v'ayein b'Teres Shlom, seif katan gimmel. Okay. According to this, we can start claring a shaila. Why would the Mechaber say tzaruch lifrosh if it's taka both? Just say it's asur. So I think the pashut pshat is because since the baal is always the—I mean, he's the initiator, he's the ba'alim, it's his, you know—memeila, therefore it says tzaruch lifrosh. But ein hachanami, it's supposed to be both. They both should be poresh. אי דילמא, or maybe it's his achrayis taka, meaning who should hold the calendar? Both of them should hold the calendar, maybe. Or maybe the pshat is the baal should hold the calendar. Or maybe it's taka the baal should hold the calendar, but he has a lot of trust the wife. If the wife is better in cheshbon, he could be somech on her. This is an interesting ha'arah. What's your question, Elon? What is your question? No, no question. You hear what I'm doing? I was saying that he was writing it for men, women don't learn this. He's telling us tzaruch lifrosh for men. Maybe.

But you like my idea? You like what I'm saying? You like where I'm going with this? Okay. I just want to know whose responsibility is it. Now, what happens if you over it? What kind of a teshuva do you need? A d'Oraisa, d'Rabbanan? So you're going to come and say, depends. If it's veses d'Oraisa or veses d'Rabbanan. Let's look at the Terumas HaShlamim. What kind of a kaparah do you need? ואם ארו ושימשו איש ואישה, שניהם צריכין תשובה. You want to go, you can go, I don't want to hold you. כך כתב הש״ך. This is what the Shach said. Let me tell you something. You want to be metaher yourself from mincha? This is the Torah. The Rambam says clearly that if you want to be metaher yourself from all the tumas of the world, you're supposed to dip yourself in which mikvah? Mei mei hadaas. I showed you many times. The Rambam says it clearly. The waters of what? Of daas, the waters of Torah. There's no greater taharah in the world than learning Torah. I want you to know something, and I don't care if you leave my yeshiva because of it, and I don't care if you're angry. I will fight till the death for this. All these halachos that you're busy washing your hands and your this, this are good for people who don't learn Torah. Don't waste time for learning because of this. This is much more taharah than washing your hands. I'm sorry to tell it to you. I'm not looking at you because I'm looking at them. They know me long enough to know that I don't mean much, but I mean Torah. The greatest taharah, the greatest purity. I want you to know, I have no safek that the gedolim of Europe, born busy washing their hands and putting their hands and cleaning their hands, they were learning yomam valayla. There's no greater taharah than learning Torah. That's the taharah. That's it. If you don't have that, so then you have to be clean and washing and cleaning and showering and b'mikveving, and it's all good, don't get me wrong. But this is meimei hadas. This is taharah. You want to be metaher yourself? Menashoirish. This is menashoirish. Now, says the Torah Shleimah, now you can wash your hands, by the way. V'kach kasav haShach, siman zayin, yeah? V'af al gav d'mashpi dvarim shehametzora d'soived d'Oraisa, vanan kayma lan d'vest d'Rabbanan. U'k'mevuar b'Beis Yosef siman... eimi makom tzrichin teshuvah k'over aveirah d'Rabbanan. Teshuvah is such of an over aveirah d'Rabbanan. So vest is d'Oraisa, but the teshuvah is k'over aveirah d'Rabbanan. What is that all about? V'heicha d'matza dam, vadai. But what happens if there was blood, dam vadai? d'hava aveirah d'Oraisa, u'k'de'isa b'shaas... okay, now, d'isha eina tzrichah kaparah, d'isa... she'ani hasam ones. But mashenkein over here, she needs a kaparah. What is this middle thing here? It's a d'Rabbanan, but in case you can see dam, then it's d'Oraisa. Tzartem is b'nei Yisrael, she's not a nidah. Mizhardim is b'nei Yisrael means that she might be a nidah. It's a zehirus not to be over an aveirah. So if you didn't do it, so what's your kaparah? It's not nidah. Not nidah. It's that you did something that might have brought you to. But in case she is a nidah, then you are over nidah. It's not that there's an issur nidah early. It's an issur nidah early, so you need a kaparah as if you did kreves to a nidah. Even the issur, what it is, is an issur shema yavo. So if you עבר on that, it's on the chomer of a derabbanan. It's not on the chomer because it's not b'etzem a chet. It's a din in the zehirus. But in case you did see a nidah, then it became de'oraisa. Now, I want to discuss one more thing. What happens if you did it and you realized it's the shas vest? So you have to be poresh. So the Chavas Daas paskens in siman kuf hei se'if beis that you should be poresh b'ever meis, like a nidah. Pardes Shimonim, what are you talking about? Punkt farkert. If the whole thing is that you're afraid you might come to nidus, so be poresh the quicker the better. Be poresh the quicker. It's a Pardes Shimonim. What's the hesber of the machlokes? No, no, no. Everything I spoke to you, it's so clear. If you hold you nidah, be poresh like a nidah, ever meis. But if you hold it might come to, so the quicker the better. That's what they're arguing, what's the yesod of them. It's moridig a vort, moridig. Ilan, why aren't you dancing? You worry about mincha? What are you worried about?

Don't dance with your fingers. Dance with your hands. All right, we'll continue. You want to do this tomorrow? You want to continue tomorrow? No? Tomorrow? Did you just hear what I said? Did you, did you understand what I just said?