Hilchos Vestos: Mesulekes Damim, Pregnancy, and Prishah Samuch Levest

Transcript

Ba'meh devarim amurim? Okay? Ba'meh devarim amurim. The test is until what? Kuf pei daled, se'if gimmel. And if there's shiur tomorrow, including daled. It depends on tomorrow. It's up to you guys. We'll discuss right after. I'm ready to leave. You'll tell me in advance and I'll begin the story. HaMechaber says in se'if gimmel, ba'meh devarim amurim. Now, haGavurcha, I don't know if you know, I didn't do the av yasaf, but I touched on it yesterday. Maybe we'll still get back to it, I don't know. I want to go further a little bit. And second of all, we didn't do the Rama. Okay, whatever, the אילה wants to move a little. First let me do gimmel. Let me see, because you took about twenty minutes. Let me get the information out, and then we'll see what I do. I'm sorry about today. Today was not my fault, but my fault, meaning it was my private things at home I had to take care of. And I got a phone call. בעיות, ברוך השם. Okay, ba'meh devarim amurim. When are these things said, ba'meh devarim amurim? B'gedolah, aval b'ketanah, shehigi'a limei hane'urim, v'lo hevi'ah simanim, tzarich lifro'a samuch levestah, kol zman shelo kav'asah gimmel pa'amim. Tanah shelo higi'a limei hane'urim v'lo hevi'ah simanim, ein tzarich. So there's no din of prishah סמוך לווסת. Kol zman shelo kav'asah gimmel pa'amim. Now, l'churah... You would say this mechab is not nogea to us today, because we don't get married at that age, so really it's not nogea anything. A, if she's a niddah, she's a niddah anyway. That has nothing to do with this. Which means that you're not allowed to touch her, which is true anyway. That has nothing to do with this. Asur ligabi bi'ishah, chutz mi'inyan hatzniyut. There's a problem of niddah. She might be a niddah karet, so she's an arayos and you're not allowed to touch her. So any girl that has niddus, and that niddus could be mibas yom echad, also, we learned this, right? Afilu mibas yom echad, we learned this. Afilu one day old. We discussed how could it be a girl has niddus from one day old. We discussed all this. But al kol panim, so this seif is really not nogea to negi'as niddah. It's nogea to a husband and a wife, and we don't have that we get married when they're thirteen. If you want that, you play with a doll. You don't have to get married. We don't get married at thirteen, okay? So when you look at this seif, be'etzem it's not nogea anything. Lechura, it's not nogea anything. But I want to say, slowly, v'hu hadin l'skenah shenistalku domeh, which is nogea to us, because v'hu hadin is mashma that all the klalim that said in ketanah are really said in skenah, and skenah is yena nogea. Skenah is very nogea. A, it might not be nogea to us in our private lives, but it's nogea if you want a pasken shailah. Skenah. A woman has menopause, it's nogea. Nogea. Okay. Now, I just want to bring up a case where I think it's ra'ui ladun b'zeh. What happens if a woman is higia limei na'arus, yeah, v'lo hiviah simanim? Or the opposite way. Meaning, let's leave it this way. She's higiah li'manah arim, okay, v'lo hiviah seirus. She could be 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. It's called an ailonis. It's called an ailonit when she's 20. When she becomes 20 and all this didn't happen, then she's an ailonis. Then she's an ailonis. An ailonis is duchranaisa d'lo yalda. That's why she's called an ailonis, because ayil is the male of the species of ayil. It's a ram. It's not a sheep, it's a ram. In the goat species, so you have ayil. Ayil is male. That's why they call her— no, she's not— she's from the species of goats. No, but that she's considered a duchranaisa d'lo yalda. That's an ailonis. Ailonis. She is like an ayil.

The lo yalda. But this is when she's 20, all right? The truth is, an aylonit is never a naarah. It's an interesting thing. If luyat suyor, if luyat suyor, you have a mesulekes damim, a mesulekes damim, medical reasons, mesulekes damim, medical reasons. But she was two things. A, she was higia limei na'urim, and she also is hevia simanim. Does this halacha apply? That's what I want to know. It's a good question. It's a very fair question. Now let me explain to you why this is a good question, because what I'm doing is I'm showing you how to think when you see a Shulchan Aruch, how to—meaning you look at it, higia simanim, na'urim. I say, I'm busy with the Taz, you know. What's it nogea? See how it applies l'maaseh. Learn to take the cases and apply it. To give you a mashal, I love to say, even though I don't do it, but if I was a rebbe in a yeshiva ketanah, because I'm not, but if I would, you know what I would say? Shor shenagach es haparah, car shenagach es a truck. That's how I would say it. You know why I would say that? Because we don't have shor and ben parah. We don't have it so much today. You can't identify. But you should know it's possible that shor shenagach is car and truck, which it's not so pashut either. You know why? You have to know it. Drivers, there's chayav, there's darka leiluch v'hazik. That's called—this is called, and in halacha you have to do it. That's what I understand. That's what I'm trying to tell you. By the way, can I stop for a second to tape? Yeah. So the question is, what's if ligeia b'zman hazeh? And I'll tell you. Let's take away the word ktanah, and let's put in the word mesuleket damim. How about that? Let's put in the word mesuleket damim. Now I want to tell you why I hesitate to put in that word. Why? Meaning, could be it's not mamish the same case as mesuleket damim, and it's ktanah. Why? Right, right. That's right. Sounds like it's the same, right? Does it have anything to do with the fact that roiv ktanim, 99.9.9 ktanim taka don't see, and the individual yachid, which is a mesuleket damim, might not have the same halacha? Could we come and say haki ka'amar to a ktanah? Ktanah? Yeah. Oh, oh, I thought you wanted to say something. Or dilma, I have another question. Who tells you someone is a mesuleket damim? What constitutes mesuleket damim? Now you know why the whole shiur, that's the whole shiur. You just hit the buttons of the shiur. Is muberes the same thing as this? Did you all think about this when you learned this? It's mashma. Shach, he said shetmuberes, a prisha. That's why I'm saying the shiur. Now you know the difference between saying and not saying. You read halacha, ktanah, simanim, she brings simanim. It's not again. This is all mentioned in the Beis Yosef? Yeah, basically, yeah, yeah. So the question is, what about mesulekes damim? And then the question is, what about muberes? First of all, let me ask you a question. How does a muberes become a mesulekes damim? Does anybody know? Oh, there's a kvius to a mesulekes damim. R' Moshe says a test is enough. It's only, it's all here. It's all in the seif, right? Very pashut. Many poskim hold that the same way your kevuah for having, you're kavua for not having. V'hu hadin liskeinah shenistalku dameha. How does a person become a zakeinah that she nistalek dameha? Does anybody know? Three months that she didn't. That she didn't have. What happens if doctor looks and says there's nothing there, there's no mesulekes damim, there's nothing what to talk about? Is that good enough? R' Moshe has a whole teshuva about it. This is the shaylah. That's the middah. You know, I'm going to show you something. What's the suffix? The suffix is like this.

Let's say, meishale, someone doesn't see blood for three times, so that's called a mesulekes damim. What happens if the doctor takes a test, and the doctor verifies she's a muberes, and a muberes be'etzem b'metzius is a mesulekes damim, so maybe you don't have to wait three times, and right away there's no more onot. So he came, he said... How about this other thing? We don't touch a woman if there was a... I don't hold Rav Ovadia holds in this case it's the same. What does that mean? You would say the doctor says you don't believe him? Many hold like that. Not they don't believe him. You see, let me tell you, these are all... Talmidai kibanai, listen to me. What you're doing is you're saying a lot of things, and my job is to guide you along to see it right. Listen carefully. You said good, you said good, you said good. What you said is true. We don't believe doctors. That's an anut, when the question is belief and not belief, all right? And then there's a question if it's mesiach lefi tumo, if he's a goyishe doctor, if he's a Yiddishe doctor. Most of this, most of this is in telling you yes, niddah, not niddah. But to tell you muberes, not muberes, which is a fact of a test, and the fact is that a muberes is a mesulekes damim, then it should apply too. Rav Moshe's chiddush, tremendous. Many don't hold like this. Many say you still have to do the three months. This is the metzius right now. You want to know the difference? You want to know the truth, what the difference is? Everything I spoke about till here. What's called kvius... What's the point of tefius? What does veses d'oraisa mean? What does it mean? If it means muchzak, you need a chazakah. So what happens if you don't have the chazakah? You don't have the chazakah. So is the pshat that you need lihyos muchzak, lihyos mesulekes damim? If somehow we would be able to mevarer without the chazakah. Slowly. Slowly. Only when you have a safek, you need chazakah. You don't know. That's the other side. That's R' Moshe's yesod. R' Moshe's yesod is, when do you need a chazakah? There's a safek. I have nothing to be mistapek over here. The doctor sees the baby. There's a baby there. So b'tzius. Hashem came where what? Where it's a— that it's not— it's a chazakah. It's not pshat that there is no safek. There's a safek, and we have to mevarer al pi chazakah. So then we can come and say chazakah is more than what? Than a bedikah, than a test, than a medical test. So I'm trying to explain to you, you have to know what's called a mesulekes dam. Muchzak lihyos mesulekes dam, is it a status? Do you need a chazakah for that or not? That's the question. What? You need a chazakah. You need a chazakah. Only to prove something that's inside that you can't see. Is that true? Is that true? Maybe this chazakah is coming to break the previous chazakah. Like it can be practical. Chazakah was only made when you can't be mevarer. When you could be mevarer, when you do. How would you do anything? Maybe the three months, until those three months the baby is very much in jeopardy. I don't care if the doctor says the baby is there. There might be cause different types of chashash the Rabbanan were chosheshing about. Those three or not is maybe the body is still in between. He has a baby, but who said that it changed or something like that? No, sleka damim, she doesn't see blood. Today, למה women people see blood? When they see the סימן. They're not seeing their nidus, they're seeing sickness, they're seeing something wrong. That has nothing to do with nidah. I mean, it could be dam nidah, but it's not nidah, it's not vestes. It has nothing to do with vestes. Okay, now I'm going to stop with you clarifying chakiras right now, because now I got you interested in the sefer. That's all I want. I want to get you interested, and to show you that it's not just hegיos simanim, neurim, we're not in Iran over here that they marry twelve-year-old girls. That's not what this is about, okay? There's a lot of interesting halachah over here that's nogea l'maaseh. Now let's learn the sefer inside. Says the Taz. You like what I just said? Do you understand what I just did? Huh? You look it up yourself. I'm too tired. Honestly, I'm not.

I'm just here now to show you that af al pi, can you come anyway and you say anyway, and then even if you're in a good mood and you're not good mood. Ani bati rak laharot, ma shelo yehyeh shiur. Haolam yachol lhithapech; yihyeh kol yom shiur. You should know that. What? Do you understand what I want? Boruch Hashem. Listen to me carefully. I love you like my own son. I'm telling you, I come here with a ahavah. Just pay attention. You're gonna learn a lot. There's a lot, there's a lot of years of learning that goes behind this. And to be a posek, you have to be able to see the Shulchan Aruch. It's alive. The mechaber has to be alive. He's talking to you, telling you something. Read what he's saying. Okay, let's see now the Taz. Who wants to read the Taz? What's called lo yavi simanim, ken yavi ha-simanim? Zehu peirush? Who's reading? Go ahead. There's two things about a katan. One is... So meila, you don't have to be poresh סמוך לווסת. Okay, shuma b'alma, good. Ayin siman kuf pei tes. To me this is irrelevant, like I explained to you, because aylin is, it's more about mesulekes damim and zaken. סמוך לווסת. Says the Taz, Nirah pashut... Go ahead, Yonatan, read the next one. Nirah pashut. Hu hadin... The chad ta'ama hu, kemo shekasuv... V'eino katzamach ela kivan d'mairi b'simen zeh, b'zeh. Okay, so b'קיצור, it's only סמוך לוסת only because of language, that the language fits better. Now, I would have said something else, that if I was writing the Taz. So what? Don't be medayek. That's what I would have said. But then I'd be—sorry, okay, that was just a piece of mussar, mishevin מה שאני אמרתי. Okay, now, al kol panim, סמוך לוסת, but what happens bשעת וסת? It's the same thing. Does anybody know that there's a big tumul about this? It's, Acharonim, you know, the Shach holds not like that, maybe the Pri... Okay, so look at the Shach in se'if katan yud-beis. סמוך, עיין לעיל סעיף קטן ח'. What's in se'if katan chaf that's so interesting? So go ahead, who wants to read it? Natan, what's in se'if katan chaf? Go ahead. ... סמוך ... בשעת ... You have to. ... ולא הביא סימנים. Right? So the shitas haPrishah is that you do have to do it. Okay, how does the Shach pasken? How does the Shach himself pasken? Huh? Go right ahead. You're not choshesh. You want to hear something strange? Very strange. The Aruch HaShulchan brings down the din, and he says, u'veshach mevu'ar, in the Shach mevu'ar, that you have to still be choshesh for the shas vest. And I'm looking and I'm going... Maybe you had different girsa in the Shulchan Aruch. You saw this Aruch HaShulchan, you saw it. Okay, let's look it up. Aruch HaShulchan, siman katan chaf aleph. And then we'll start thinking, wait a minute. Are you with me? ... מה, סמוך לווסט, המחבר אמר סמוך, אז הוא מדייק סמוך. אילו היה מפה היה, לאו דווקא. Yes. Yeah. What? Unless he means the prisha, I don't know. He's just saying the Magen... It's bringing in there. It doesn't make—he should have just said prisha. Okay. Now, במחלוקת. You know what it is? You read the Aruch HaShulchan and you go... If you didn't know this, you wouldn't know. You'd read the Aruch HaShulchan and you'd make a very big mistake. Okay.

So that's what I'm pointing out. The Aruch HaShulchan says, the Taz says like this and the Shach says like that. There's only one problem: the Shach never said that. One problem, lo amar. What he meant probably is that the Shach quotes the Drisha. Why doesn't he himself quote the Drisha? He has to quote the Shach that quotes the Drisha, when the Shach himself says differently than the Drisha. I don't know what he wants exactly. I'll tell you the truth, I feel, I feel that he learned a certain way the Shach, but I might be wrong. I'm just telling you the way I understood the Aruch HaShulchan learning the Shach. The Shach brings it, כאילו it is a manda'amar. Read me how the Shach disagrees with that shita. Read the words. Continue. And what does the Shach say? After דיוק גמור, that's the end of the lashon of the Prisha, and then וכן נראה ממה שכתב המחבר באחר זב, that's already the Shach. That it's not a diyuk גמור. Right. Meaning it's mashma that it is mutar. Okay. You see clearly the Shach said not that way? That's what I think the Aruch HaShulchan is saying something. Yeah, but he doesn't say anything. Why even quote him? That's what I'm trying— no, I think the way he learned up the Shach, that the Shach is not going with the Taz, that the Shach is— What did I say? So I just repeated over the Aruch HaShulchan, right? It's a big difference between he's not going with the Taz, saying cholek, and then when you read this, it's clear. That's all. Could you show this Choshen with a talmid chacham what I just said? Show it to him in se'if. Could you show it to him? What are you wasting time for? Yonatan. I want to drive a special love for the name Yonatan. My brother-in-law is Yonatan, and in my house he's like Yonatan. It's like a big name to me, so I feel very good when I say the word Yonatan. Now I can go back and say I'm my own Yonatan. Okay, go ahead. No, they call him Yonatan. Okay, he's Yonatan. That's why I call him Yonatan. Okay, so if you look at the Aruch HaShulchan, if you look at the Aruch HaShulchan, you'll see, shaashuach, not so clear. I'm not so sure what he learned in that shach, okay? Now, what is hesber hamachlokes? What is the hesber hamachlokes? Who wants to say? Hesber hamachlokes. What's called, is she that she doesn't have a chazakah lirot, or is that already considered that she's a מוחזקת לראות, מסולקת דמים? Ketanah shelo higi'a is considered a bechezkat מסולקת, but ketanah shelo higi'a is what? She doesn't have, not that she doesn't not have. And the chiluk would be, should you wait the shas veses. Let's go weiter. Stop. So what's going to be with the rest of this? What's with Reb Akiva Eiger and the Taz and the Pischei Teshuva, sif katan tes? Okay, I'm leaving this here for you, rabosai. Do this. Tomorrow, im yirtzeh Hashem, yeshir or no shiur? Yes or no shiur? All right, we'll see tomorrow. You're having a big bechirah. Do the rest of this, okay? Yechalek, yechalek, is מסולקת דמים, not מסולקת דמים? A ketanah is called a מסולקת דמים, or she's called a במחזקת מסולקת דמים? אבל איך היא יכולה להיות מוחזקת? הרי קטנה היא, אף פעם לא היה לה. If she's מוחזקת, because she's a ketanah, even if it's shas veses, then we say שום בעלמא, it's nothing. There is no shas veses. There's nothing. Mashenkin, if she's bemuchzek, what? That she's not, she just doesn't see? I want to know if she's a muchzek. What do I think? I have a lot of rayos like this, and it's nogea to muberes. The sugya of muberes is in this. Do I need a mesulekes? Mesulekes? Do I have to undo my old chazakah, or the mere fact that I'm not in the old chazakah, I don't have to have a chazakah the other way, that's already called a mesulekes damim. What's called a mesulekes damim? Muchzak lo, o she'ein לה חזקה, כן. Muberes is that.

Every seven, every seven, yeah. You have a raya that that's a stirah to the old chazakah. But just because she tested doesn't mean you have a chazakah the other. You have a re'ayah to the old chazakah. There's something here. It's telling you, it's telling you this shailah. Once you have a raya, it's good enough that she loses her old chazakah. It's good enough. You don't have to be muchzak the other way around.

Amen. Amen.

אוקיי, יש איזה חוק ש... נכון? הוא אומר שהחוק נותן לך extension, להאריך את ה... אם מישהו שבת על החוק של ה-extension, כנראה החוזה... לא יודע, אם לא יודע מה, יש כמה... אחד, שפעם שעבר הוא לא שמע את החוק, כי מגיש משרה כלמידה או ש... נכון? או שהיה expired והאפליקיישן שלו היה זה. זאת אומרת, כל מיני דברים שקורים פה, שכנראה החוזה לא... על פי החוקים. אז הוא אומר פה... אבל נגיד שאתה לא שולח את ה... נגיד שהבעיה שלה הייתה שהיא לא שולחת טפסים בזמן, אז יש לך פה כמה תרחישים. אתה מבין? הבעיה היא הבעיה שלה, זה שהיא... יכול להיות שהיא ניפתה, שהיא נשארה פה יותר מדי זמן, או שיש לה אחד... מהרודלמן. אה... אתה תסביר למה היא שבת, למה היא לא שולחת לפני... Please, יש לך statement, תסביר למה היא לא עשתה את זה בזמן. אתה לוקח ... אתה רק ... אם יש לי בעיה בישראל. ... או שמישהו שמייצג ... ... אם אתה ... אז אתה לא יכול ... נכון? אבל אם זה ... I-599, אז אתה לא יכול ... נכון? לא, זה יש לך ACFR. אתה יכול ... ACFR, אבל אם אין לך את זה, אז יש לך בעיות. נכון? ... ACFR, ... יש לך בעיה.

If he doesn't say, then Shaar HaAron will say. I think it's a good book. Used to go two years without missing no Rashi, no parsha. I was even sometimes late, behind. I used to have to, like, when this parsha, I'm like two weeks already behind. So these books, the Shaar HaAron is a very good one. And Hirsch, I don't know what they did with הרב Hirsch, I have no idea.

Maybe, I think, into my personal, let's take a person, he has a defect or something that's wrong with him, or maybe there is nothing wrong with him. And a person says to him, like somebody, I don't know, with low self-esteem, and he's a big guy, but somebody goes to him, like take myself for example, I was big, I didn't have a fat. Someone calls him fat. It's unadvarim. He's saying something that's not true. And this person might start believing that thing, and that's unadvarim. Forget about the whole other dinim of motzi shem ra. That's, that's... and that's by putting him down, דאלי דאכנתא. אתה לא מבין כלום, טיפש, or something. So besides saying the wrong, עזוב לשון הרע, מוציא שם רע, forget those things, put them aside, that is also a problem there. Maybe, that's from my opinion. That's my פירוש. I know when I studied psychology, it's like a person, אדם הוא לא מה שהוא חושב על עצמו, ולא מה שאחרים חושבים עליו, הוא מה שהוא חושב שאחרים חושבים עליו. You know what I... And also sometimes, I knew this for a fact in my school, about this girl that they used to tell her all the time, like, חזושם, ינטע, stupid, she started becoming that. She started believing that. She was very, you know, she was okay, but after saying, getting said... Person, let's say a guy, אתה מרחף, אתה לא מרחף, אתה מבין, אתה מרחף, it starts believing and acting upon it, but it's not dvarim because it's not true. Vedok. Very good. No? You checked it, vedok dat dvarim, and it fits. No, I think you're good. Daniel, want to hear a good one? Huh? No, no, I asked a question. I asked a question: what's the connection between onas mamon and onas dvarim? So that was the answer. Good to hear, no? He asked a question about what shechitah has to do with anything, shelo knitah chalavot. So how is that? Shelo knitah is like to put down. That's what weak, that's what mino, the pshat, maybe in Sfat Kodesh or what the Rashi knows, something else. But putting down a person is an onas dvarim. It's like lashon hara, that's like, so that's what I said. Besides those things, it might be saying to the person something is not right and he might start believing that. It's connected because onas mamon also saying something that's not right and the person might believe that. That's the whole thing. Onas mamon comes from onas dvarim, actually, if you think about it. Yeah, also, but what do you... But onas mamon can never be without the words, without onas dvarim. It's deception. It's deception. It's deception of his mind. Not only his pocket; his pocket goes through his mind. It's the best thing. All other, yeah, you'll pay eighty bucks for those, but me, you pay a hundred bucks and it's ten times better. You're only twenty-dollar difference. It's the same merchandise. It's onas dvarim. Also not, you know, or whatever. Besides being, I don't know, ribbit or, I don't know, yeah, there's now that ... gezel. Gezel that. I think you need to look at the shoresh. That is what onaah means. If you look at the shoresh, you're gonna find out everything. Once you find that.

You can get lost in this book. You can really get lost, lost hours on this book. You start with something. I liked it, you know why? Because one of the things when I go through a parasha, you have like a chidush or something that sounds, you know, you're reading the Chumash and it's all one big secret anyway. It's all satum, and you want to know, what is this? What is this? What are these psukim? Why is it doubling itself? Why this? Why that? You go to this book, you probably find in parashah, 90% of the time, 80% of the time. You see something looks weird in your eyes, you don't like it, or it seems you want to check it out, go to this book and you find it. I found it. It's such a good, I mean, it fits in also beautifully with this Chumash HaRishonim. With what? This Chumash HaRishonim. What'd he say? No, I'm just saying, it's in what your pshat fits in with the zechus of the chamishah chumshei. How do they go? Because when you tell a guy it's chamishah chumshei, you're saying that he's defined by that, that that's who he is. It's like, you're a nobody. You used to be this, used to do this, this, this. Yeah. The answer is that no, that a person can remake himself. A person can be a totally different ... That's the inyan of, to borrow a word from ... the ... that's the inyan of Eliezer eved Avraham. He changed from an arur to a baruch. He changed his whole metzius by being mevatel himself to Avraham Avinu. But what did the midrash say? ... Oh my gosh, why the Torah, why does it in the whole Chumash, HaKadosh Baruch Hu didn't find anything better than say His words twice.

What? Son is there. You need... the son is there, so it's kind of... No, actually, son's upstairs. That means he dropped them off. Hello. This is unbelievable. It's here. I thought, you know, I thought I'd have to look up in the Chumash. It's got the whole, the whole lesson, the whole lesson of the Chumash here.

I.