Hilchos Vestos: Veses Machmas Ones, Kfitzah, and the Role of a Fixed Day

Transcript

See, katan. ... Kol vest shenikva machmas ones. Now the lashon is very strange. I don't know if you know, the lashon is different. It's mashma that there's a vest, and it's nikva through the fact that it's machmas ones, and it's a funny lashon. It should have been a vest ones, a vest that comes through ones. I mean, the vest is the vest, and ones brings the vest. So it's not vest shenikva machmas ones. It's kol vest machmas ones shenikva. I don't understand, kol vest shenikva machmas ones. That's the other number. Kavana פה. Kol vest shenikva machmas ones. Says the Ramba, kegon shekaftzo v'ra'aso. Now why, you know, if this was a mechaber, if this was Meran, so then he gives an example. But if it's a Rama, l'cheira it's a Rama, right? L'cheira it's a Rama, right? So what does Rama want? I mean, bishlama, אתה אמרת ואני צריך להוסיף משל. That's a funny... נפלא, לא? תסתכל פה. כן, אבל the Rama is not in the business of giving dugma'ot של הגמרא. I mean, it's not what his thing is. I mean, he's arguing, I mean, he's adding. The Rama usually doesn't do that. The Ramah never comes to give an example. Huh? Yeah, what does he have to write it for? If the Shulchan Aruch could come and explain what vestes, kol vest, machmas, ... he could go in, said, אבל the Ramah should go out of his way and add it, it's a little strange. Now, truthfully, it's also in brackets. We're going to talk about it slowly, slowly. הכל יתבאר היום, הכל יתבאר. Okay, you hear? This is, now the only thing is, refol, are we so sure it's the Ramah? Maybe, because it's in brackets. Maybe it's the mechaber in brackets, or maybe it's later on they gave this as a mashal. Huh? Oh, you see, your new guys fixed it up, you see, in the new Shulchan Aruch. I don't have it. I don't have hagah. Hagah, kegon, and the hagah is also in brackets. Something's wrong over here, yes? You see it, right? And mosifu hagahah, because it's not clear. Is it the mechaber? Is it the Ramah? Now, if it's the mechaber, it's pretty good. I don't know, the mechaber is giving you an example of kegon. A stenzor, the printing is very, you know, complicated, because maybe it was not printed this way originally. If it's a regular Ramah, the Ramah is teaching us something. The Ramah went out of his way to teach us something. I'm going to, I'm going to speak different cases of ones. And see, maybe the Ramo is bedavka this and not other cases, because there's many cases of ones. And I'm going to ask, ani yish'al, ha'im kol ha-tziurim zeh, hakol kula, whatever it is, hakol nichnas l'zeh, or no? Maybe not. You hear, Moishe? Maybe if it says this, kaptza, kaptza, yeah, but this is different maybe. This is different. Maybe the ones that we're going to speak are different. We're going to soon see from a Teisfta, we'll soon see from a Tosfos in Niddah, we'll soon see a Chasam Sofer, different types of ones. So maybe that's why the Ramo went out of his way and said this case. We'll soon see. So the first diyuk is, kol veshenikva machmas ones, that it's nikva machmas ones. And the second diyuk is the Ramo. Is it a Ramo? But I don't know. That's what we're saying. Maybe it's bedavka. Maybe the Ramo gave this case, lafuke other cases. Kegon, I want this case. Sometimes—could be, could be, could be. I mean, if it's one of the cases, there would be no reason to have a Ramo. If it's one of the cases, there's really no reason to have a Ramo. If the Ramo went out of his way to—

Give you an example. It's kegon b'davka, and we'll soon see. Right, but the Rama doesn't have to repeat over the Gemara. The Rama will never have to say over kegon the Gemara. If the Rama Chaber didn't find it necessary, it's not darko shel haRama. The derech of the Rama is tochi cholek on halacha. The Mechaber maybe brings you cases, maybe a little more, a little more. Even that would be a little bit of a question. Lemaaseh, if the Rama went out of his way, kegon, there's got to be reason for it. There's got to be reason. Okay. Afilu rasa boi kama pamim, even if he saw it a lot of times, okay, and loi kava oisan l'yom. If you weren't kovea l'yom, so it wasn't nikva machmas ones. Afilu rasa boi kama pamim, but it wasn't nikva. Right? It can always happen many times, but it's still not nikva. Now, what's that chiddush? I mean, it's a very big— I mean, if it's not nikva, it's not nikva. What do you want? I mean, there's no kvius, there's no kvius. So what's the chiddush? Afilu rasa boi kama pamim. I don't see. If you have a re'iyah, and that re'iyah was, let's say, re'iyas yom hachodesh, but it's not bikvius, so it doesn't make a difference, afilu that it happened many times. Why does the Mechaber have to speak out, afilu rasa boi kama pamim? Who cares? Who cares? If it's not nikva, it's not nikva. You have a question? Wait a second. Bo nagid kach: yom echad chorev v'chorev... aval lo bikvius. Doesn't happen. It doesn't. It jumps, it misses. I mean, it's not. Different days. Yom HaChodesh happens seven, eight times. During the year it happens seven, eight times, but it's not b'kvius. So what's the halacha? It's a vesheinah kevuah, right? So what does it mean, afilu ra'asa bo kama pe'amim? What does he want? We know that. If it's not kavua, then it's not kevuah. Yeah, but kavua in that every time she jumps, she sees. But that's what it says not like that, afilu ra'asa bo kama pe'amim. Right, meaning you saw in the first of the month, you jumped and you saw it, and in the fifteenth, and then twenty-seven days later, twenty-two days later, every time you jump, you see. Still, it's not called kavua, even though you recognize that there's a gorem to the dam. We see that every time she sees blood because she's jumping. Nevertheless, if there's no— Yeah, but I'm asking a pashut question. I don't see it. Kevuah means it has to always happen, right? Every time this happens, this has to be. Now, so there's no chiddush that if it's not that way, even if— No, afilu ra'asa bo kama pe'amim, which means a hundred times she jumped and a hundred times she saw it. Nevertheless, look, but did it happen all the time? Yes, every single time it happened. So then why is it not kvius? Because that's the chiddush of this halacha, this se'if. Even though it happens every single time, it's still not called kavua. Why not? Because it's a ones. I don't know what the reason is, but— That's not the way I understood it. No. I understood that there's one opinion in the whole that even if it stops to be kevuah, others hold you gotta have pitza with the yamim. That I understand. I'm not— So wait a minute, afilu ra'asa bo kama pe'amim. You saw it a few times through jumping. Now wait a minute, wait a minute. Then you're trying to say it's always, or kama pe'amim? I understood the kama pe'amim differently. Even if it's more than three times, not just once or twice. You saw it twenty times. You saw it twenty times. Twenty jumps, twenty blood. Why couldn't he say afilu ra'asa bo kol pe'am? It starts at some point when she turns 14 years old, when she jumps, she starts seeing. I mean, kama pam means what? That it's kama pam the last few times she meets. See, I didn't learn kama pam that way. I learned kama pam means it happens a lot. If it happens a lot, then you could say, ah, one time she jumps, she didn't see, one time she jumps, she saw, one time she jumps, she didn't see. No, but I'm saying something else. What happens if it's not nikva l'yamim? It's not nikva l'yamim, which means it doesn't happen on certain days, right? It doesn't have the yamim also, but it happens so many times. But it's not nikva because of the yamim, so say that. What does he say? Afilu ra'asa boi kama pamim, even if she saw it a lot of kama pam, a lot of times, you need three times is the point. So just say afilu ra'asa boi shalosh pa'amim, ul'hagdil, it means it happened more than three times, which you're saying, which really doesn't mean anything. Wait a minute, wait a minute. So what's im lo kav'ah eis l'yamim? Who's talking here? The Rama's explaining. He's explaining what the mechaber...

So let's say if this was no Rama, how would you read the Mechaber? That's what bothered me. I don't see what the Mechaber is talking about. Kol vest shenikvu machmas ones, afilu ra'asa boi kama pa'amim, eino vest. It's not a vest, right? Shemipnei ha'ones ra'asa, she saw it because of the ones. So what do you mean, kama pa'amim? The amount of times that would normally give you a kvius for other things, by an ones it doesn't do anything. That bothers me. See, that's—I know you're reading it that way, but it bothers me, so just say that, even though it happened three times, I don't care. She's saw in her lifetime. What do you want with kama pa'amim, even though it happened many times? How is many times—so say that, even though it happened three times. She's saw in her lifetime. Yeah, maybe because some might hold you need four times. You want to get out of that that says you're not kama pa'amim. If it's not kolazman, then you could say ah, and like by kvius it doesn't matter how many times in a row, even if it's ten times, even though it's not like that. You see, they're learning it, it happened the last few times, kama pa'amim the last few times. I was learning kama pa'amim, which means is what would happen if it always happens. No difference, huh? So why does he have to speak that, even though that it happened kama pa'amim? She says kama pa'amim, she says always. Kolazman. That's the question. I want to know, what do you want with the kama pa'amim? That's my question. Again, read it again. So just say—but again, what do you want? The nusach is not right. Kol vest shenikva machmas ones. So nikva means that it's already more than three times. That's what it means, no? Otherwise you're not saying anything. Afilu ra'asa boi kama pa'amim, so what do you want? I don't know what it's there for. It's not about anything. It should be, kol vesh nikva machmas ones, eina vesh mipnei ones, ra'asa, finished. You just said that it was nikva machmas ones. What are you adding? Even though you saw it so many times, we're discussing that it's nikva machmas ones. You said that. Now you know what I'm asking? Huh? No, it's not. That's without days. Lo kavoys liyamim. It's not days. Okay, so... I need to add פה משהו. I see something which isn't the way the simple, the sefarim write it. Something is more here. Kol vesh nikva machmas ones. I don't even know what that means. Just say, kol vesh machmas ones shenikva. It should say, any vesh machmas ones shenikva. Second of all, you just said nikva machmas ones, which means what? Yeah, I don't know. No, so ela mai, nikva means it's more than three times, right? So what do you mean, afilu ra'asa boi kama pa'amim? Who cares? I don't know what you're saying. What are you telling me, a lamdus? Afilu... lamdus. He's speaking out a lamdus shevart, and even though... kamashmalan not. He doesn't want to say it straight, but he says it like a lamdus shevart, and even though... Hagam d'af al pi shera'asa... He's not telling me the halacha, because the halacha is already kol vesh nikva machmas ones. It's told that it's nikva machmas ones. Again, so it was nikva machmas ones. So then you don't have to say afilu ra'asa boi kama pa'amim. You're not saying anything. You just said that. Maybe because there's a few oneses, right? There's ones this, but you saw a few times the same ones. Not different ones. Yeah, but we know that. I mean, this is a guy, the whole shailah, we could talk about this, if it's shayach two different onesim and to be kovea one ves. That's a machlokes, the Chavos Daas, the Pischei Teshuvah brings it down, but that's not here. This is about af al pi she'rasah kama pa'amim. Af al pi she'rasah kama pa'amim. The maaseh is a loshon of kama pa'amim. You're not three times, ma hu otzeh? It's a chiddush. You don't realize what you're reading. When you read it, it doesn't read. Kol ves shenikva machmas ones. B'seder, so it's one three times. Tagid, eina ves, but ... finished, and that's all. I mean, the kama pa'amim comes so that it's in random days. How did you say kol ves shenikva machmas ones, you would think on the same day, because that's how ves kavua is. Ves kavua is every—it has to be a cycle. But when it says afilu ra'atah bo kama pa'amim, which means random, and then the chiddush is, since it was only through ones... Yeah, but the Rama is what? The Rama is explaining, im lo ra'asa. I mean, the Rama says that.

What do you want? Something is something. I hear what you say, but, huh? Yeah. It's פירוש. In other words, he's being mefaresh what afilu ra'asa b'kam pam means. Maybe, maybe that's... But you see, but it was bothering the Rama. Somebody was being bothered by the afilu ra'asa b'kam... What do you want? I'm talking about. So why would he bring the halacha that way? It's a very interesting way of bringing the halacha, that it's a vest kavua, and the pshat is that she saw it so many times, but not l'yamim. You see that the fact that she saw it so many times is needed to be stressed to say, and in a sense it's not l'yamim, and that something is more here than just... Vest ha'ones is nothing. That's what I'm trying to bring out. When you read, you see that there's something more than just reading, vest ones, nikva, we don't care because vest ones is nothing. That's all I'm trying to say. You're maskim now that there's something more than just vest ones, because it doesn't say that. Vest shenikva machmas ones. It also says, af al פי שנikva כמה פעמים. You just said it. You just said nikva. Okay. We know there's a machlokes if kfitzas l'chud works, or you need yamim also. So the Tur paskens that kfitzas l'chud is good. Kfitzas l'chud is good. The Mechaber paskens kfitzas l'chud is not. The Rama, though, adds, u'mikom makom chosheshes loi kemoi l'vest she'eina kavua. You're choshesh. So therefore what? Chosheshes loi kemoi l'vest she'eina kavua. What does that mean? Oh, next time she jumps. Wow. No, Yom acharon shehaflagah. No, that's the shach. You're repeating over a shach, but that's not what the words—what do the words mean, that you're choshesh? Lo, kimo leves she'eina kavuah. What does that mean? Huh? So next day you have to be— So, keshi jumps again. Yeah. What does she do? So she has to, what, be choshesh till the time it comes, yeah, and worry that at that hour, let's say, when it comes— Yeah. And I was like this: what does it mean she's—what's the chashash? I mean, if she jumped and it came, so there's no story. What do you mean choshesh? Next time. Again. So, but she jumped and she didn't see, so what's next time? She jumped and she didn't check. Whoa, jumped and didn't check. So she has to be choshesh maybe. So it means she not touch her husband till she checks. That's what you're telling? Okay, so, you know, I'm sorry that, you know, if you're talking—sad. I mean, not that you're ... about Torah, don't get me wrong. That's not what it means. It can't mean that, because there's a lot of check. What does chashash mean? No, meaning until you check, you shouldn't be with your husband. That's how you learned the case? Period that she saw last time. What period? It's all random. Can I tell you how I learned it? Can I tell you how I learned it? And then we're gonna see how the cheating books learn it. Maybe the cheating books say you're right. That's how you learned it. Okay, I'll tell you how I learned. Is the story kavtza v'rasa right away, or is the story kavtza u'bemeshech sha'ah hirhata? What's the story? She saw within the hour. Well, that's pashut. Why? Why? Because that's how the poskim bring the story. Wait, slow. Because—can I finish talking? Yes, there is a raya. So far, so far there is a raya. Okay. So what happens? What happens if, let's say she sees within the hour, so the next time it happens, so she waits till that time comes, and if it didn't come, but she has to wait that hour. So you said a story, she has to check, and I'm saying the story is she has to wait that time. Now look at the cheating books. Who's right? No, according to—what's the... I just want to know what it means. I want all the translations, like a... me'ilu what? No, according to him it's going to be temeiah. Huh? She will be temeiah according to his way, not his way. If she did not find right away, she did not check right away, maybe she's temeiah. Maybe. I don't know. I have no idea what he's talking... I mean, let's say she didn't check for three hours, so she's temeiah, or what happens? It comes out, yes, according to you, yes. She's definitely temeiah. Go check. No, according to him we have to check right away, right? If she...

She doesn't check right away, she's temeiah. If you have a hargasha, it's not stam hachshash. She's, Mr. ... she could check. Okay, read it. Go ahead, read it. She doesn't have hargasha. Yes. Yeah. Okay, read. Sheur hachshash hu mizman shekaftzah ad sof ha'onah. Ad sof. That's exactly what I wanted. It has nothing to do with the re'iyah. Could be she sees right away, really. Oh, so— no, no, no. So it continues: de-yesh lachush shetir'eh bemeshach ha'onah. But is that based on something previous or stam? No, because it's a chashash. Again, last time she jumped, she saw right away or at the end of the onah? So keep reading. There's nothing to do with it. Okay. Bechavodat, de-nafka mina kshe'ein lah sha'ah kvuah lir'iyatah, achar ha-kfitzah. But if she has a sha'ah kvuah, chosheshet rak le'oto ha-zman, aval bish'ar ha'onot muteret. So if she sees immediately— It's what he said, what I said. If she sees immediately. Make sure both. So read it again, read it again. I wasn't arguing with him. I'm just saying, I don't know if it's— Even according to Rabbi... I don't know. Before I— I don't know. Till they don't know what it is, then they can ask me on it. Nobody knows what— We had an argument, and I was honest. I said, I hear. Maybe let's see what the cheating books say. I understood it this way. You understood it this way. And maybe ... go ahead, read it again. Sheur hachshash hu mizman shekaftzah ad sof ha'onah. De-yesh lachush shetir'eh ... ha'onah. Bechavodat, de-nafka mina kshe'ein lah sha'ah kvuah lir'iyatah, achar ha-kfitzah. Aval im yesh lah sha'ah kvuah, chosheshet rak le'oto ha-zman, aval bish'ar ha'onot muteret. Honey Meili, by the way, not nafka mina. But when there's a shaka v'ua... How do you know? You have to do a bedika. You have to check inside. So it's the same thing. No, who said? Who said? Who said? I don't know, I don't know. You need chadashta, you have to go look for it. Who told you to go look for it? Everyone should be able to say, you know what, oh, today's my yom ha... I don't feel anything, no problem. Is everyone allowed to do that? She has to do a bedika. I don't know. So let's come and pasken. I don't know. That's ones, because it's ones. She doesn't have to. What, the shaila, you have to check her? Yeah, that's the shaila. After this, after what I said pshat, you have to check. I don't know. I don't know. I didn't see that. I don't know. I don't know. I was thinking about these things, I don't know. Again, according to רבי, it wasn't mechoshesh. Just don't be with your husband until... Yeah. But what if she did see blood? What chashash is it? Don't be with... He says that, that after the ones it's mutar. If you didn't check, then it's fine. Right. Go ahead, read, read, read. Who says? Who? Who says? Who? I want to know who said that. I wasn't sure. Maybe not, maybe not. But what would be the svara saying not? Because the svara is that she has to... It has the same din as a vest she'eino קבוע. I don't know. I'll show you not. The Rama says. The Rama says... I'll show you that he doesn't say. I'll show you that the poskim say not like that. That even if it's a vest she'eino קבוע, it's only chosheshes, lo kemo vest she'eino קבוע. It doesn't say that it's really a vest she'eino קבוע. It says chosheshes, lo kemo vest she'eino קבוע. Where's my... Meaning the same din as a vest she'eino קבוע, no. Make me more coffee. עכשיו אני מרגיש טוב. אני נוסע... אני בא מרחוק. Maybe you don't have to check. I don't know if you have to check. I didn't find anywhere that you have to check. I don't know who he's quoting, but I'd like to know who he's quoting. This is something else. This is something else. First of all, what is chosheshes? What does it mean? Is it mamash like a regular oinah? Is there such a thing called, yeah? Is there such a thing called veses l'yom, so this veses l'yom achar hakfitzah? Or the pshat is that once she jumps, how long does she see? It has nothing to do with yom. Remember I asked you a question. Hello? Rabbi? Rabbi? No, he doesn't hear me. We're gonna have to hear him, I see. Okay, Baruch Hashem. Maybe he should, you know, give a job. Could he talk to him now or...?

It's chayshesh lo, yechoshes like a veses, just like a me'ah veses she'eino kavua. You have to be worried on the day, but it's not a taka veses she'eino kavua. I'll prove it to you, because if you look at the poskim, they're all saying that it's a veses she'eino kavua and it's not real. That's the whole Shach and Taz over here. The whole Shach and Chavas Daas, the Pischei Teshuvah, is to come and say, Lo, lo kemo she'ata choshev. You mean that dino is chumra. I don't know. I don't know what it is. We'll soon see. Yeah, it's not a veses. What kind of veses is this? A veses? Make up your mind. It is or it's not a veses. And I'll tell you even more. I'll tell you even more, Friday, that if you learn—yeah, you listening?—that it has nothing to do with the yom, so it's strictly kfitzah. So there's no such thing as אונס. There's no such musag of אונס, because there's not no day. The whole thing is based on whenever she jumps, and within the vicinity of her jumping she might see, so it has nothing to do with the day. So yechoshesh, how much is it? What happened? The vicinity of how long it would happen. It happens an hour later, so it's an hour. But this has nothing to do with yamim. It has to do with yamim, but the yamim is made through the אונס. The אונס is gorim on the yam shetireh. There's a machlokes, the mechaber. And the Tur, if you need Yomim also, or kfitzas alon is good, this could be the machlokes. The Mechaber paskens it's not a real vest. What is it? It's a way on how her vest comes b'oto yom. Since takah the yom like any other vest. The Tur paskens it's a new thing called vest for ones. Let's take a look now how the Mechaber brings the halachah, because the Mechaber says kol vest machmas ones, or kol vest nikva machmas ones. What does he mean right now? Does he mean to say kol vest ones? There's no such thing as a vest ones. There's no such thing. There's such a thing as a vest shenikva. There's a vest of the yomim which comes as a goyren through ones. But there's no such thing as a vest ones. It has to do with the yomim. It has to do with the day. The day... No, no, it's pshat is, you want to know where her vest hayom is? The ones causes her vest hayom.

We're telling you that's not a vest. And that's, no. And then tell me, yep, and that's not a vest, but because we don't pasken ones can make yom. Kol vest shenikva machmas ones. There's no such thing as a vest machmas ones. There's a vest which is nikva through ones. And even that's nothing. You know why? Because you need the yafeh. You understand? It's not awkward. I'll explain to you why it's not awkward. Od paam, listen to me carefully. I want to say a chiddush nifla. I want to say a chiddush nifla here, that the thing of vest ones, the thing of vest ones, is not, is not, according to the Mechaber, a vest which comes from ones. But it's vest which comes that the ones brings it about. Even though there's no vest. Not even though there's no vest. There's a different yamim. That doesn't make a difference. In other words, there's an orech bizmano bo. The orech is triggered through the ones, but it's her orech. It's not just that this causes bleeding. It has nothing to do with the fact that this causes her to have to have periods. That's not what it is. This triggers her regular veset. This triggers her regular veset. You understand ma zeh? This brings about her regular veset. Kol veset shenikva. Lefa'amim yesh ishah sheyesh lo veset, v'haveset nikva machmat ha'ones. Ha'ones gorem, ha'ones gorem, shlo haveset, ela kvius shel haveset haragil shelah. I'll talk to you afterwards. I want you to say Tehillim for somebody. I want you to say Tehillim for somebody. So afterwards, afterwards, I'll talk to you after the shiur. Okay, you hear? Are you listening? Okay, let me tell you what I have from this. Listen carefully. According to the Ramo, that yechoshesh l'veset she'eino kavua, do you have to be choshesh for the other ones? Beinonis, and then chodesh, and then whatever else, haflagah, whatever else is going on. So let's take a look at the Shach, se'if katan mem-ches. Yeah? No, go ahead. Shach, se'if katan mem-ches. No? Oh, yeah. So what does he mean to say? It's a veset she'eino kavua, but you still have to worry about the other ones. Because it's eino kavua. So he's learning pshat that it's because it's a veset she'eino kavua, so therefore you have to be choshesh for the chodesh. Wait a minute. Bishloma ones beinonis, I could hear. Yom hachodesh? Yeah, but wait a minute, but isn't this her oirech? I don't understand what you're saying. Let me ask you a question. It was nikva, it happened three times this way, right? It happened three times. What are you saying? Did it happen three times? I don't know. I have a big question about this, right? It happened three times? Did it happen three times? Yeah, three times happened. Okay, so then, so, yochesh like a veses she'eino kavua. So what Yom hachodesh do you want? What exactly do you want, Yom hachodesh? You gave a scenario that she was koveis every twenty days. But isn't Yom hachodesh when her oirech comes? Every twenty days, since the kfitza was every twenty days. So how many times is she seeing? I don't know the story here exactly. I mean, what was the last Yom hachodesh? What does he want, Yom hachodesh, or what else did he say? Yom hachodesh and haflagah, two of them. Which means is that she's not a kavua, you're talking about because otherwise there's nothing else, right? There's Yom hachodesh, there's haflagah, right? So anyway, by the way, does he mention einah beinonis? No. You know why? Because...

That, you know, okay, right? There's no ... but lu yitzur, you held that it wasn't Yom HaChodesh, there would be ... also. The shach holds ... Yom HaChodesh, therefore lo matgish ... Let's say he would hold not, then you would have to ... haflagah, ... I don't understand, but she just had her period, you just said. Did you just say that? It's kavua that whenever she's kovea, she has it. And she just now was kafatz. Wait a minute, and she was just now kafatz, so you have to be choshesh for it. What did you think, that what, that in case it doesn't come? I'm asking, in case it didn't come, you would have to be—wait a minute, you wouldn't have to worry about Yom HaChodesh? Let's say it would kafatz and it didn't come, so the chiddush is you still have to wait, you have to still have to do Yom HaChodesh? I know that, because otherwise there's no point. It's pashut like that. So what is he talking about? He's talking about a case, right, and then the Yom HaChodesh still came. Of what? Of what? Yeah. So then what is haflagah? What is he referring to, haflagah? What do you mean, for the previous re'iyah? What do you mean? No, Yom HaChodesh means her regular Yom HaChodesh. It has nothing to do with Yom HaChodesh of this. No, oh no. What are you saying? Why are you being mevazeh the Shach to say things like that? What are you doing? Huh? רבי, can I just clarify what's going on here? She sees that ... right? ... doesn't mean that. That was what he's saying. She was ... and ... right? She jumped ... That's not what he's learning. I didn't learn that. What's the case then? The case is she has a Yom HaChodesh, and she has a haflagah, and she has different yamim that she keeps. So she still has to keep all those yamim. She still has to keep all those yamim. Because she has all those yamim, so she still has to keep all those yamim. That's the story. What the Shach is talking about is that she has a Yom Haflagah, and she has a ... and if there was ... wasn't the Yom HaChodesh, she would have to keep ... also. Peirush, she's choshesh for this as if it's a veses she'eino kavua. So of course, what does the Shach want? What's the chiddush? There's a chiddush in the Shach. Explain to me what the Shach wants. I don't know what he wants. That's what it says. U'mikom makom, ... is not mikom makom. What? I'm right? I'm right. You're not learning the Shach right, huh? What do you want, mikom makom? What's mikom makom? It's not mikom makom. It's biglal ... It's not mikom makom. Read it again. Mikom makom. Read the first word, the mikom makom. It's a killer. What does it say? No, you know something? I'm gonna hurt. I'm gonna start throwing chairs at you. What do you mean, mikom? Mikom makom is not mikom makom. It's rak biglal זה. Because it's eina kavua, so you have to keep all your ones. I don't know what you're talking about. It's like you saw ... I don't know what you want. If a person has a Yom HaChaydesh and a person has an haflagah, and then he sees a re'iyah which is eina kavuah, so of course you have to keep all your re'iyos. I mean, what's mi mah nafshach? So it's this re'iyah that was caused by ones. This b'chalal is not going to have any consequences, so you don't have to be choshesh for it at all. But again, you're telling me it has no consequence. That's what you're saying, that it has no consequences. Eino chosheshes means—chosheshes means that I'm worried for it, but I have to keep all my other things, so what's mi mah nafshach? I'm not mi mah nafshach. I'm telling you to keep the other things. I'm telling you you got to be choshesh for this tefilah. I'll read it again. Mi mah nafshach. Because she's not a kavuah, because it's only chosheshes, kein a kavuah, so what's mi mah nafshach? Of course you have to keep it. I don't—what do you want? Does she have a Yom HaChaydesh? Does she have an haflagah? Does she have an ones? Yes. And then all of a sudden she jumps and she sees. That's called an eina kavuah. Okay, so what do you want? So what's mi mah nafshach? Of course mi mah nafshach. Are you sure he's not talking about from the last— How can you have an haflagah and a Yom HaChaydesh? Two pe'ilos shehi. And a Yom HaChaydesh because she remembers the last time she jumped. Well, who said there's such a thing that there's an haflagah from two pe'ilos? I don't think she jumped twice. That's the case. Read it again. Read it again. Mi mah nafshach.

You have to be choshesh for the haflagah. Of what? Of the two kfitzos. So he's telling you from the last kfitzah, you have to be choshesh for the ... and haflagah. Yes, again, so what's mikom makom then? Even though this vest is nothing, we really should completely— What do you mean it's nothing? Why is it nothing? Because chosheshes lo. Only coming because of the kfitzah next month, this— Wait a minute, wait a minute. So one second, so the Shach is saying what? Now that the Ramo says this, mikom makom— That's what he means, the Ramo means this. No, the Ramo means this. Oh. Oh, the Ramo means what? Now you're saying. She jumps at any day, mikom makom, which means like this: she jumps, says the vest, and a kevuah, mikom makom you have to keep haflagah, and you have to keep— What's wrong? I think Ramo is saying mikom makom chosheshes lo kmo in a kevuah, right? What does that mean? There's no such thing as a vest. But you still have to keep this vest in kevuah. If she jumps ten days later, she has to be choshesh for that day till the sof ha'onah, or to the hour of when she sees blood. Why not? Why would you not have to? Well, what does he want? I don't know what his chiddush is. Because the Charei points to the Mechaber, you don't have to do that. Aha, you mean— Mechaber, you don't have to do it. So the Ramo says you have to do it, says the Shach, mikom makom. So what's mikom makom? The Shach doesn't say mikom makom. Read me again the Shach. The Shach says— Yeah, nireh li. Mem ches, sif katan mem ches. So I'm reading here, let me start from the beginning. Mikom makom chosheshes lo, kivan sheirah kein shalosh pe'amim, kein hu vagos na'imim. U'meviah ed she... V'nireh li delo asar ela la'afukei she'ein tzrichah lachush... What does it mean, v'nireh li delo asar la'afukei? Meaning what? Meaning from the kfitzah, right? Why not? Why not what? I don't see it. If that's her haflogah, and that's her Yom HaChodesh, and it's a re'iyah, you always have to keep that, no? Because it's all coming from kfitzah, so I would completely cancel all of those things. Again, but it's the—again, you're missing the story. It's with kafatz. Right, it's kafatz. There's no vest there. But it's with kafatz. But it's with— Is there a Yom HaChodesh with kafatz? Yes, but less than three times. It's like any other re'iyah. I don't know what you want. I said every time you have a re'iyah—every other re'iyah. Again, if let's say a woman sees on Yud-Beis, and then she sees again on Yud-Beis, so it's only two times, it's not three times. Does she have to keep Yom HaChodesh? Does she have to keep haflogah? So why would this be different? Because this is more shevach. This is not—more shevach. So that's what I wanted to get at. I'm trying to teach you something. I'm trying to show you that what the Rama is trying to do is, yeah, but not. U'mikom makom, yeah, but not. U'mikom makom, there's still Yom HaChodesh and that whole business. So I don't see, yeah but not and still the halachah—maybe not. I don't see. Where do we draw the line? Yes, but no, but yes. See, pashut I would have said it's a chashash. When you're kafatz, you have to keep l'toch oso onah. But the Shach is saying more. The Shach is saying is we keep haflogos and the Yom HaChodesh from there. That's the story. From the kfitzah, b'soch ha-kfitzos, yes yom, yes, which means it's not stam chashash k'shi kofetzes; ze yoser. That's the chisheshes. What do you mean? I don't see. Either it's a re'iyah or it's not a re'iyah. Is it a Yom HaVest or it's not a Yom HaVest, meaning kavua, einah kavua. And the teretz is— It is, but it's not. And mikom makom nira. That's why the Shach has to be mechadesh that, you know how far it is that it is a vest? That you still have to keep the Yom HaChodesh of the vestes. That's what the Shach is saying. The Shach is learning up the mikom makom, the lashon of the Rama, u'mikom makom chosheshes lo. He knows it's not, but mikom makom you're choshesh for, because it's not really. So he wants to legabei what? Legabei what? I'll tell you even further. You ready? Is there nafkamina in this story? Maybe the story is that she taka saw three times, or even if she saw twice with kfitzah. The Shach brings the story. How many times did she see with kfitzah? Two times. The Shach, go ahead. Twice. What's the story of the mechaber? Huh? Kama pa'amim. And on that the Rama says, u'mikom makom chosheshes lo. Who told the Shach that by two times it happens? Maybe when it's three times. Maybe by three times it's a veses kavua. What are you saying? What? How many times does the Shach say it happened? Read it again.

Go ahead. No, I'm saying in this case, ... But what's the story? V'nira... What's the story? The story is two times. There are more stories three times. The Shach is going one step further and saying even on two times. What does he mean? Chiddush nifla. You hear what's going on here? You're not maskim yet? It's two different cases. The Rama case and the Shach case. But the Shach is going on the Rama. ... The Shach is talking about when it's the same date and the same kvitzus, which is going to be next se'if, actually. No, the next se'if is jumps, which is the same jumps, the same date. That's not what the... V'nira is going back on this Rama. But the Rama is talking about different dates and jumps. On this Rama, on this Rama, what does he say, v'nira? He said three times on this Rama. So I'm showing you that he's going one step further. You can't hold one... See, the Rama is saying a chiddush. So what's that? So let me tell you, there's a machlokes haposkim how to learn up this Rama. Did the Rama go back, davka on the case, or it's even hua hadin when it's not three times? The Shach is learning hua hadin it's even when it's not three times. The Rama is saying that even if it happened three times, it's only eina kavua, but it remains eina kavua, chosheshes even if it only happened twice. That's how you learn up the Shach. The Shach is mashma that the Rama that comes and says it's eina kavua says the Shach, it means even... אתה שומע? מה רוצה פה הש״ך? הש״ך רוצה לחדש דבר פשוט. And the Mechaber and the Rama says that it's even three times, right? And it's a—I'm sorry, that it's a veses kavua, says the Shach, but you would have to keep—now you have a machlokes from those things. So I ask you, why not? I mean, if it's a veses kavua, the Teretz says he's being mechadesh because it's not really a veses kavua. It's chosheshes lo, v'nir'eh hu hadin for this too, chosheshes lo like a veses kavua. But what was the story, three or two? The Rama's case is three. The Shach, when he says his story, is when he's talking about two. The Shach's story is by two, unless you learn that he means to say he's trying to give you the example of haflagah, and that happened three times. Maybe all the Shach wants to do is give you an example of haflagah, but in halachah he didn't happen. I wasn't sure how to learn the Shach. Maybe the story—you hear, Rafi? You hear? אתם שומעים? Maybe the story in the Shach is, זה קרה ככה שלושה פעמים. Okay, so let me tell you quickly, fast forward. You ready? בוא, בוא נחדש פה, בוא נגיד חידושים. Is it possible to have a vest ones together, together with a piyuk, with a different vest, murkav with a different vest, huh? Or it's only with yamim? So Pischei Teshuva brings down from the Chavas Daas, there's a whole shaila like this, a whole shaila: שאלה גדולה. שאלה גדולה. Now what? That it isn't dafka vest murkav with yamim, or is it together, murkav with anything? No? You know what murkav with other things are? It's like ma'aseh. Murkav with yamim, because chubi it's a din in the yam. That's right. I'm not sure. Maybe the whole pshat, invest ones is ones with yamim, because it's not the ones, it's the yam. The lashon hamechaber is that it's the yam. Let me show you a nafka mina. Ready? We said over that the Rama says that what's the case? Kegon shekaftza, she jumped. Tell me, there's no other case of ones? Cases. You're a ones. You're a ones. Are you a ones? He's a ones. I mean, whenever someone asks you a shaila, you send it to him. He's a gevaldige ones. You know, they used to say over that in America, a rav needs two things. A Mishnah Berurah and a Remaisha Feinstein's telephone. Those are the two things that a rav needs in America. All right, so let me ask you a shaila like this. What would happen— You hear? What would happen if she got sick? Does the ones have to come from toirach, from she did something strenuous? Or it could be even her guf, her body. So there's a tosefta, Rabbei say, that says, Chalsa, hika ba'ila, husband hit her.

Okay. Must be. Yeah? What about maasi, kaveid, a heavy? Okay. What about she got scared? Nothing heavy happened, but she got scared. You know what the thing is? There's no ma'aseh. Is vest oines dafka with a ma'aseh, or vest oines is anything which makes a change in the body. So there's an interesting Tosafos in Niddah, daf samech gimmel amud beis, that uses the lashon shelo ba me'eileha ela al yedei torach. It's got to be something strenuous, strenuous. Strenuous. Oines means force. Yeah? Oines. The Raza, very famous lashon, the Raza brings a lashon that it's bal karcha v'lo mida'ata, which means it's being forced by external—not that she wanted to, you know, something happened—which means if, let's say, she does strenuous work, mida'ata. Huh? You don't think so? Mida'ata means she could decide not to have a re'iyah. Oh, really? I didn't know that. You know a person could have a decision not to have a re'iyah? I'd like to know about that person. Ah, so that's how you're learning it. I wasn't sure. You see, I had this safek on the bus. Exit 102 was this safek. I had this safek, and it says, mida'ata v'loi bal karcha. Does it mean b'kivah, her nature, or mida'ata means that whatever she did, it could be strenuous work, but it wasn't forced upon her. Ah, I don't know. Because the case of kaftza—she jumped. What do you mean? Women like to do exercise. Well, that's the story. The story is it had to do something abnormal. Regular kvitza, is oines abnormal? Is oines ma'aseh? Is oines stress? What is oines? What is the translation of oines? Nu, pasken for me. What are you sitting like idiots for? Now I'm sitting like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, makes like fara or something. Nu? Here, kvod haRav, I came. I want to ask you the following. Here, you're rav. Okay, so if you're not a rav, I definitely want to ask you, okay? What happens if a woman says, every time I get under stress, I see dam. Is that called vest ha'oines? I don't know. There's no ma'aseh. Nothing happened. The Chasam Sofer says even if it's machmas pachad. Okay, maybe. But you see the Rama went out of his way and said, kegon shekaftza. Let me ask you a different question. Let's say I do exercise, you hear, but it's not abnormal exercise. Normal. Is that called vest ha'oines? Okay, rabosai, let me tell you what I really think. There are certain women that do things, you hear, and they can have period from it. Very shayach. Right? I think the sugya over here, you're listening, Rabbi, I think the sugya over here is: do you need the yamim? Why would I need the yamim? Because it's not really the ma'aseh that causes the orech. It's the ma'aseh that triggers the normal orech. So it has to be an abnormal ma'aseh. Masha'en kein if you learn vest ha'guf, vest ha'oines, is pshat is that this oines, this strenuous thing causes her vest. It's not her normal vest. The word ones. The question is, is ones going back on the vest, or ones going back on what happened? Something weird happened. Does the word ones go back on the vest, that the vest was forced? Is that what it means? Or vest ones means there's an ones that happened, and because of that ones, the body went bizarre, and therefore it had a vest. Okay, I want you to write this down, because I see that the olam's not going to catch everything I said so quickly, so you're going to have to prepare this. Ones. The word ones is going back on the vest, or is ones going back on what happened? There was an ones, something strange happened. She jumped. Well, women don't jump. Maybe in the old days a woman didn't move. She sat like a kind of chicken on an egg, used to sit there doing knitting. They never moved. What's the story here? For example, she jumped. So what? So she did exercise? What? For example, it's an example, and if she does exercise...

Exercises every day. I mean, what's the story? I mean, if a woman just had three times she did exercise, yeah, and she jumped and she... Every time she does exercise, she has to be choshesh? I don't know. I don't know. Who said? Shava? Who said they want that minhag, right? Okay, let's talk about... Ata shamata ma shemedabrim po? Lo.