Hilchos Vestos: Veses LaShaos, Fixed Hours, Onos, and the Dispute Over Its Definition

Transcript

Veset. Veset leshaos. Veset leshaos. As an introduction to this sif, I'd like to point out, in the previous sif, the Mechaber, Maran, brings two examples of vestes. He's trying to discuss kvias vest and akiras vest, and he brings two examples. And he puts together vest haflaga and vest of chodesh. He doesn't talk about vest shaos. He took two examples. Now why these two, and why do they go together? Why is vest haflaga together with vest hachodesh? Does that mean to say that those are the two classic cases of vestes? Vest leshaos, maybe it was just not so common. It's just not a common—maybe he didn't feel to bring it as one of the examples when he's discussing akiras, but he has to talk about vest leshaos, he brings it, o dilma, I'm trying to discuss, you know, if you want to give an example, so he gave vest... Haflogah, and he gave vest hachodesh. What does that mean? What's wrong with vest hashois? I mean, the next case, vest hashois, said kegon, so bring this kegon. Unless the pshuta is it's so not common that he didn't feel like he should bring it. Meaning, if you want to bring examples, you bring examples which are common. Chodesh is common, I guess, and haflogah, which is definitely common, right? Okay. Oid dilma, maybe we could come and say that vest l'shois is different than vest haflogah and chodesh. Haflogah and chodesh is taka a match, because they're real vestes. Mashenkin vest l'shois is not a real vest. Why am I saying this now? Truth is, the Beis Yosef, Maran Beis Yosef, in his Beis Yosef as a hakdamah to the sefarim of vestes, says there are five vestes: haflogah, chodesh, this, yom, right, dilug, sirug. Does he bring shois? No. There's no mention of shois. Mimeila, it implies to me that vest l'shois maybe it's not a real vest, and I'll point out another nekudah: vest hahaflogah. What about by chodesh? What's the lashon? She'eina b'haflogah here, v'zeh nikra, it's called vest haflogah. V'kach tzarich daled re'iyos, afilu kos shalosh pa'amim, right, v'chein b're'iyas hayamim, shehi l'yamim yeduim l'chodesh me'acharah. See, here he doesn't use what it's called, right? Maybe because vesta flog is a name. Vesta chodesh isn't a name, it's leyamim. By vest l'shois, he uses also l'shois. He doesn't call it vest hashois, vest l'shois, right? Should have said vest laflaga. What? No, I don't know that. But I'm just saying, vest haflaga is a name. So I want to know, by chodesh it's also that way, shois is it that way? What is vest hashois, okay? Is it, you hear, R' Moshe, is it a vest for itself, or is it not a vest for itself? And if it's not a vest for itself, what is it? Possibly it's nichlal in a vest of a chodesh, which means some people not only have the day, but in the day they have a specific time. So it's actually vest hachodesh l'shois, which means it's to an exact moment. It's the same thing as vest hachodesh. I know you said that, but I can't give you credit because this is not about camp, it's a shiur. I heard you said it. Okay, now.

Today we're going to discuss vest hashois. What is it? So again, I pointed out that there's such a thing called vest haflogah, as a shem davar. Vest hachodesh, he brings also as an example, but vest hashois he doesn't bring in the example in seif aleph. Either it's not common, vest l'shois, or maybe it's only vest l'shois, not vest hashois. There's no such thing as a vest hashois, and the Beis Yosef doesn't bring it. Okay, where does this vest hashois come from? It's interesting, it's not in the Gemara b'chalal. The source of it is a ra'avad. Look on the side, he brings from the ra'avad. The source is a ra'avad, yeah. Something called a vest hashois. Could be it's a meduyak in the Gemara. The Gemara speaks about shois when it talks about vestes, but there's no mekor, right, for vest. Some say the mekor is because the Gemara says about a woman, she came back from the mikvah and then she used to see. So meileh what they said was she should go be tovel next to the mikvah. They state in the Gemara, and meileh we see that certain women see at a certain given moment. Let's use the word moment for the moment, okay? It's actually more if it's coming back from the mikvah, but for the moment, okay? After this ra'avad comes along the Ra'ah. Or on this ra'avad comes along the Ra'ah, and he asks a kashya. He says, Im kein, she should be makpid on this time every day. If she sees four o'clock, and she sees it three times, so four o'clock every day she should be makpid. Zei fregt the Ra'ah kashya. Avadah that's not true. No, the ra'ah. The ra'ah in the Bais, it will quote the ra'ah. The ra'ah says, l'choira, according to you, Raivid, it would come out that it's every day the same time. Now what's wrong with that? L'choira, because it's not possible. There's no such thing as a woman that has a vest every time, every day, right? I mean, this is just unheard of, I guess. Yeah, maybe, huh? If it's so uncommon and there's one person that, I don't know, maybe, yeah, I don't know. All right, so maybe you should be machmir. But the Ra'ah seems to say it's impossible. There's no such thing. All right, now, which day? Once a month. Which day? There's no day. Okay, I'm gonna have to explain to you the Ra'ah, obviously. Okay, now, obviously the Raivid didn't mean that, so we have to say that there's a machlokes, the Raivid and the Ra'ah. The Raivid must have held, like what you're saying, that it's from within the day. What time? Meileh, if the day is, Yom HaChodesh was, let's say, Tuesday on Zayin, so then Zayin becomes the problem, l'osa shah, and ein hachanami, she'makpid on four o'clock of that. Mashenkin, what did the Ra'ah hold? The Ra'ah held we cut away the day. The day has nothing to do with this. It's all about l'shah. It's a new vest l'shah. So the vest l'shah is four o'clock, so then every time there's a four o'clock, every time the clock strikes four, you have a problem. Did you learn like this? Why not? It doesn't make sense. In which case? What do you mean, it doesn't make sense? I mean, he asked for kashas, obviously. The question, obviously, he was asking didn't make sense, therefore... Yeah, but I'm saying, so what did the... So in other words, as I'm saying, but the omek of the shakla v'tarya between the machlokes, is it in the vestes hayom l'sha, or it's a new thing called four o'clock? So it's a new vest called sha'os. This is the way I understood the base of the sugya of sha'os. Ra'ah and the ra'ah is the base. Do we look at it as vest hayom, and in that there's a, like, what do we call it, hummering in on a sha'ah, so we could actually pinpoint the moment, or it's a new vest. It's four o'clock. It has nothing to do with the time of the day. It's four o'clock. I believe that if you understand what I just told you, all the halachas in this sefer become clear. Sugyos and machloikes in nashim and yonim in this sefer become clear.

Let's begin with that. The Mechaber—what shvach? I'll say it again if I have, because this I hold is the yesod. You want me to say it again? Huh? Want me to say it again? You understood what I said? You understood what I said? It's a ... I mean, maybe others too. Some of them all say it. Everybody says it. Huh? It is the Chav... I understand my pshat. The Chav is not—shitas what the Ra'ah held. Okay, so the Ra'ah is saying this one. Okay, now. Oh, the Mechaber paskens, 'im kavu vest l'shaos v'lo l'yamim.' Why does it have to be v'lo l'yamim? It could have been l'yamim also. So all day have to. If you learn that it's a prat in the yamim, let it be a story that she was kovea l'yamim, and in those yamim she kovea l'shaos. No? L'choira, this is a raya that once you have yamim, then you can't have shaos. Or if you have shaos, you can't have yamim. It means it's l'shaos v'lo l'yamim. Shaos becomes your veses. It's not in the yamim shaos. Otherwise you could be kovea l'yamim also. What do you say, Daniel? It's pashut like that, right? Machlokes Rabbi Yehuda, Rabbi Yosi. I'm asking in the halacha l'maaseh. No, he's saying in case if you have yom kavua and shaah kavua, Rabbi Yehuda said all day have to. It can't be liyam. So I'm asking, what's the svara behind? Svara is, I'm saying that if you have a yonka boy in the shaka boy, you have to be poreish all day. So I'm asking, but why? Why? Why? I'm asking you why. If it's a kvius l'shaah, so let it be liyam u'l'shaah. Why do we have to be a case where there's no liyam? Why does it have to be that? So I was thinking that the taich is, yamim is not nidcheh shaos, obviously. Dilma, maybe we could say that this woman has two vestos: liyamim and the shaos. In other words, within, in within. In other words, in the nucleus you have a cheder b'toch cheder, huh? You like it better the first way I said it. The first way you like it better? Maybe. But do I have the right, do I have the right to declare that maybe, maybe, maybe it has to do with liyamim is mechayev, and in the yamim the shaah would be mechayev. So meileh it wouldn't be an againy thing, because you'd have to keep the whole yom. Why is it like that? Why is it like that? Yeah, but let's just leave it at that at first, okay? Either the pshat is yamim is separate and shaos is separate. So if it's kovea l'shaos, so then it's not liyamim. But if it's liyamim, so therefore you want to make shaos. Now let me ask you the other way around. Hear, Rafi? What happens? Right, l'shaos v'lo liyamim. You know what, leave it. Let's leave it at this. L'shaos v'lo liyamim, and the pshat is either one of two things, because shaos and yamim are two different, and if you're to say they're the same, maybe there's two veses to this person, she's kovea liyamim, she's kovea to shaos. Okay. Okay. Now, the Mechaber continues, Eina choysheshes ela sha'itah bilvad, only her sha'ah. Does the Mechaber mean the techilah, when it's supposed to come? It's supposed to come at four, so she has to be makpid at four o'clock, five minutes, let's say. Or sha'itah is a whole sha'ah, it's a whole hour, or the moment.

Let's go one step further. Let's say it's an hour. Is it a 60-minute hour? Shelo hismaniyus. Huh? You see? How do you know? Because the Chazon Ish says so. Let me ask you a question. How do you make shelo hismaniyus? Let's discuss an onah, yeah? Let's say her onah. Are you with me? Because I see you're falling asleep here. What's the problem? Come on, let's go. That's right, Chazak, bring him his papers. Okay, so again, I asked you a simple question. What does the word l'shaito mean? It means at four o'clock she has to be careful, or shaito means the whole hour. Or even in the hour, what's called an hour, we have to ask: is it 60 minutes? Is it shelo hismaniyus? Or I would tell you even more. You know how shelo hismaniyus could work? I'll tell you an interesting chap. Being that the onah, we pasken, you have to be makpid the onah before also. It's not 12 hours, it's 24 hours. It's that onah. Well... Orzeruah. What did I just say? We are machmir. The mais we machmir that an oinus is 24 hours. Are we machmir on it? What do we mean, let's say? I love svara, so what does it have to do with it? I'm talking according to Arzei Rua, right? Now, Arzei Rua makes it oina, yeah? So should you count the zmaniyos together with the oina, meaning... Why not? What does it mean? See, that's you decide. You decide. Here's another question. What does that mean? It means a chumra nasefes. You were saying it's a chumra nasefes. Should we take 12 divided by 12 or 24 divided by 12? That's my question. So you're watching 12, 3 hours, 24. Why not? According to Arzei Rua, he learned oina means two. Yeah, that's my shaila. You never heard that? Okay, so I'll just tell you the Chazon Ish was worried about it. It bothered the Chazon Ish very much, and he says, Sure you should put the Chazon Ish. He doesn't—come on, I can't believe that he doesn't put the Chazon Ish. It's impossible. You don't say the Chazon Ish? He doesn't go with the Chazon Ish? The Chazon Ish says what? It's a chazak. What's wrong? What's wrong? What's upset? What's upset? You don't know chazanish means? You don't know sheyesh manios means? So what's the problem? Okay. So Chazon Ish comes along and says that sheyesh manios is divided in a day. So it's not hour, but it's sheyesh manios, but sheyesh manios of the day and not the beis leis. Now, right. So the question is, the question is, the question is as follows. Okay, okay. Okay, come, come, rabbosai, pay attention, yeah? Right, right, right, right. No, no, come, let's go, let's go, you hear? Okay, kitzur, Chazon Ish, yeah? Chaloy. Chazon Ish. Now listen carefully. Wait a minute. My shaila is, what's the problem? Why would you think that you do it that way?

Four o'clock is four o'clock? Let me ask you a different question. You want four o'clock every day, or let's say four o'clock from, you know, the day of the chodesh. So it comes out it's a different four o'clock. In the winter and the summer, it's a different four o'clock. So what's the geder? Your body knows four o'clock. What does your body know? I'm saying, Yom HaChodesh your body knows, huh? Because it has to do with, let's say. Oh yes, sure. Let me ask you, how does Yom HaChodesh work? One month less and one month more, so how does it work? So there's a very interesting Yerushalmi, we all know. Yerushalmi says that since Beis Din pasken and the chachamim follow Beis Din, meila your body follows Beis Din. So who? I didn't hear, right? The Noda B'Yehuda paskens, what's Yerushalmi? It's ridiculous, ridiculous. Huh? He brings it. Yeah, he brings the Yerushalmi, he brings the Noda B'Yehuda. He brings the Noda B'Yehuda. So you'll look up today, obviously you have to work on this. The Noda B'Yehuda comes along and says, no, this has nothing to do, nah, nah. Lo shayach. What's it shayach? What's it shayach to? Not so much to the koach of Beisdin. Meaning, it's not the din because Beisdin did something, but rather it has to do with the moon. Sun and the moon on the body. What'd you just say? The moon doesn't change because the Beisdin. Yes, he's taking a different shot. It's not the Beisdin. It's not a ruchniyusdike day. Today's Chosh. Let's say Hasan Hadrin says it's Chosh. Why did my body also decide one day earlier? Because the Beisdin. Because Hashem—I'm saying it's not the Beisdin. Or it has to do with the moon. But the metzius of the moon doesn't change. Whatever the Beisdin paskens today, there was no way—it's cloudy, not cloudy—the moon changes. It becomes bigger or small. We're not holding by the hour, we're holding by the day. Why did she bleed on that day? Why should she next month on the fifteenth, maybe on the fourth? What do you guys think? The Beisdin pasken, who cares? The moon was in the same position, had they paskened a month earlier, it didn't slow down because of that. What? Came a day later or earlier. He's saying a different—he's saying, mechte, maybe they missed it. Why would they miss it? Nah, why? They on purpose says Beisdin used to pasken certain days. In other words, according to the opinion that it doesn't do with Beisdin, it has to do with the moon, the metzius of the moon is the same regardless if the Beisdin says today or tomorrow. There's no such thing as Beisdin. It's always thirty days. I hear, I don't know. This is the נודע ביהודה. The Noda Biyehuda wants to say that it's either that we don't pasken like Yerushalmi, that Beisdin—and Beisdin changes—it has to do with some... What do you call that? Whatever has to do with science, okay. Now my shaila is, that's good and best. What about the shayzmanis? So if you learn it has to do with clock and science, sun and moon, so maybe I hear. But if it has to do with beisdin, you didn't answer the kasha. How does it change? According to the Yerushalmi, which most do pasken the Yerushalmi, it's just... I want to know how it works, that it's four o'clock in the winter, four o'clock in the summer. Fair shaila? Huh? I thought it was the same sha... I'm telling you, if it has to do with beisdin, you're in trouble, right? Halachos change according to shayzmanis, right? Because we pasken... you mean because the... we pasken shayzmanis. Actually, he's pushing. So we have to say a shmooze. Next time I say my shmooze about beisdin, then even the Shulchan Aruch, you see, shtells a chavek with metzius of the guf of the isha. Because in Shulchan Aruch we pasken shayzmanis, so maybe the lady changes according to shayzmanis. Maybe, maybe, Rafi, could be. I'm not arguing with you. I'm just asking a shaila. It bothered me. I was contemplating. You know what we call contemplating? Don't understand how.

You should think of work. Bishloima the Yom HaChodesh, so the meforshim tacke ask, and the teretz is because the best. But how about the shayas? Okay. Let's go one step further now. You ready? So I had two shailas for you here, so we have two shailas now. The first shaila is, no, no, no. Why do you need vest hayomim not to be? What's wrong with vest hayom is? Second of all, what does sha'ah mean? Maybe sha'ah means an hour. Maybe sha'ah means sha'os zmaniyos. Maybe sha'ah means sha'os together with the night, with all with the ones. Okay. Let's discuss the last part of the Shulchan Aruch here. Ella shaita bilvad, v'haveses hazeh hu nekar b'shaah achas. What does b'shaah achas mean? What does it mean? The Taz, we'll soon see. So the Taz, se'if katan daled, explains what is, right, what does it mean that it's nekar b'shaah achas? One second. Now where is this? One second. V'afilu b'paam achas, vest l'shaos, kegon achas tefilos. Okay, I see kan daled, memeila l'shaachas. I'll explain. Okay, in other words like this. The Mechaber paskens—I'm sorry, the Taz paskens that we're talking about a story like in the Gemara, based on the case of the Gemara with the tefila. So it has to do with a maise. Whenever the maise comes, and then afterwards a certain amount of time she sees, that's called, right? That's called... So what does he mean over here, vavesta zehu neka b'sha'achas? What is b'sha'achas? It has to be with the maise, right? Right? Otherwise this is not neka, right? It's not four o'clock, it's eight o'clock after the mikveh, right? So then in the nekar it's b'sha'achas, the same way, l'choira, right? However it was kavua. So how is it kavua? Why after the mikveh? Okay, so then sha'achas means... So it's not the sha'achas, it's the maise with the sha'achas. The Chavas Daas learns this has nothing to do with a maise. That was the Chavas Daas we spoke about, that it's always b'sha'ah kavua, right? And now it wasn't that sha'ah, so b'sha'achas that it wasn't, it's nekar. The Sidrei Taharah learns that the story over here is that it has nothing to do with sha'ah achas, meaning sha'ah achas in a yom kavua. The Sidrei Taharah taka learns that the story is sha'ah achas. What? Yeah, so the pshat. So what's the nafka mina? What's the nafka mina? Let's say, according to the Taz, she saw, but without the mikveh. Same thing. Meaning the same month, a month later, okay? The day that she's supposed to go to the mikveh, she saw at eight o'clock, but she didn't see with the mikveh. What's going to be the story? Isn't she oiker the tevilah problem? So I'm saying, I'm asking, a chiddush comes out. It should be, right? But it's a tremendous chiddush, because we see that she saw. It doesn't make a difference, right? Because sof kol sof, since she was only nikva with the mikveh and seeing, so therefore she's... it's neka. I'm saying something else. She went next month, the same day.

That she's supposed to go to the mikvah, right? Why should she not be choshesh, right? Huh? No. So wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Then let's say two days later she went to the mikvah and she didn't see. That proves the time. Why she came to the mikvah two days later. The hainu. My chakirah is, does the Taz hold it's also with the yom? What? Taz not clear, right? All the Taz says is, פירוש, כגון אחר תפילתה, או שחרית, ורגיל לראות מחמת עיסה זמן. What does עיסה זמן mean? Does he mean עיסה זמן how much time from the tefillah, or עיסה זמן that time, but punkt if she went to the mikvah, this she won't see in your chidush, because this is called re'iyah. This is the way I take it. What, you saw it? What, you're fighting between yourselves over this? Why? Tell me why. You made the same diyuk? What? Because he's learned by me for years. He knows. He knows what's going through my mind. Ilan, let me tell you something. What I just told you is a piece of diamond. It's not even a diyuk. You know what it is? I'm trying. You know what it is? Everybody, listen. Hello? At eight o'clock. Come on, come on. You hear what sheani wants to say? It's a yafeh me'od. You know what it is? It's craftmanship. That's called craft. You see, I'm touching on the nerves. You're not gonna find them. We're gonna talk about this. This is a very important shaila. And you know what the nafka mina is? The nafka mina is this shaila: what happens if she went on a different day, or she went a different time bichlal, different time bichlal she went to the mikveh. Let's say she usually goes at eight o'clock and she goes to the mikveh at 9:15 she sees. What happens this night she went at 12 o'clock, or she went on a different day bichlal, yeah? And it happens to be 14 minutes afterwards that she saw it, and she always sees 14 minutes after. What happens in such a case? What do I want? I want to know if it's mamash the ma'aseh that's causing it, or it does have to do with a zman, but it's toli b... toli b'ma'aseh. That is my safek in the Taz. Okay. The Chavos Daas—shh—the Chavos Daas is learning, this has to do with a day, but it has to do with a zman in the day. So you see that cheshbon that even zman is toli from the day. It's a certain day and a certain zman. Well, the Siftei Daas is learning it's the shaah, which we spoke about in the beginning of the shiur. Is it the shaah? Is it the yom? My safek in the Taz is, is it also that, that it's the yom but toli b'ma'aseh of the tevilah, or it's nothing to do with yom and it has nothing to do with zmanim; it has to do with tevilah. Okay. With this— I want to go one step further. It says, b'sha'achas, right? It's nekar b'sha'achas. So I ask you a different question, you ready? Sha'achas, with one time period that it didn't come, it's one time? Is it nekar with one time? Or the pshat is, b'sha'achas means that it came, but it came a different time, but it's three times that it didn't come on the right time. Does he need to say b'sha'achas in a split moment, meaning in one hour, if it doesn't come in this sha'achas, it's over, but maybe it's still three times. She's supposed to see at four o'clock, right? So the pshat is one time, as soon as it doesn't come at four o'clock, it's over, which is the pashut pshat, right? A dilma, it came at 4:20, so the pshat is it didn't come though at four.

So b'sha'achas moments, it changes the whole thing. But how many times is that after? Maybe three times. All you need is a moment to change the whole thing, but you need three times of that moment, right? You didn't learn this? Why should it be three times? Okay. So let's discuss now, first of all, that the kreisi u'pleisi learns like that. See, kuf gimmel, the Kreisi u'Pleisi learns it's a three-time business. You want to read it? Kreisi u'Pleisi learns in the mechaber it's a three-time business, k'dei la'akor. So what is Shulchan Aruch saying? You ready? What? Either you read the Shulchan Aruch. R' Moshe, you with me? You with me? Because I see you're looking a lot over there. That's good. It's a good sefer. He brings the Kreisi u'Pleisi. Let me tell you, you'll gain more if you listen to me. I mean, you're getting more, like you're getting... Okay. Go ahead, read. Read Kreiti. Well, it says sha'achas. You know what sha'achas means? A time. It doesn't say how many times. It says a time. Sha'achas means an hour. It doesn't say how many hours. If this hour passed, don't worry about it. That's right. But how many times did that hour have to pass? Go ahead, read it. Sure, the Kreisi u'Pleisi, kuf gimmel. Yeah. What's his sevara? His sevara is, what do you mean? But she's kavua for a veses, for a sha'os, so why is it nekar b'paam achas? Okay. She only became kavua from one time. She became kavua, she became three times. She's kavua three times. Kavua, three times, so how could it be one? So first of all, this might be the reason for the Taz. Tell me, vest ha-kfitzus, which means a vest which comes from jumping. And how many times it nekar, do you know? One time. It's a weaker vest. So maybe that's where the Taz got it from, because the Taz was learning Shachas one time. Meileh, the Taz says, I don't see it. It can't be a regular shois, because if it would be a regular shois, it wouldn't work. It would need three. You jump and you see. That's called vest ha-kfitzus. Vest ha-kfitzus, ilan is nekar b'pam achas. So meileh, could be that's what the Taz understood. And therefore he learned, if it's nekar b'pam achas, so the Taz is saying it has to be a case of... And if that's true, so it has to... is poishes my original she'eilah: is it about shois, or has nothing to do with shois, it has to do with the ma'aseh? It has to do with the ma'aseh and how much longer after that that she's kofeis. If you learn that that's the reason why the Taz learned the story of tefillah, because he had a problem with this. The kreisi u'pleisi is learning, no, what are you talking about? Take a look, he says it should be three times. Why? Because I hold the kreisi u'pleisi is learning that it's a vest l'shois; it's its own vest. It's a regular vest l'shois. What do you have to give it? It's a vest l'shois. And if it's a vest l'shois, you need three times, and you'll soon see a last kashya, you need a bedikah also. Go ahead. No? I know. Oh, this is where I got it from. I got the whole shiur was based on these two words. I saw the kreisi u'pleisi learns a regular vest. What are you talking about? The mechaber above, he doesn't bring it as one of the cases, because it's not common maybe. Continue. Bishlama, according to the case that it's pakak nekev, bedikah, and you don't need a bedikah, and the mechabes is good. You don't want to bring it in the previous halacha, because the previous halacha is akirah, regular akirah, with gimel, with bedikah. Therefore he doesn't bring it. According to Kreisi, he places, he says it's a regular veses. Ah, see, he asks the kashya, says the halacha doesn't make sense. Go ahead, yeah. ... aval im avar hazman vlo yitztrech bedikah, ... ... aval im paam achas ... ... veses kavua, veses guf, veses yamim ... ... aval lo veses sha'ah ... ... harov machmas tevilah, avali machmas kefitzah ... Oh, that's Tos. You see, it's like machmas kefitzah. Go ahead, yeah.

Sometimes the bedikah, sometimes. Bishlamah the mechabek can get away with it. You can come and say this pshat. Shaah achas, but it happened three times. But the b'loi bedikah is a very big problem. Why didn't you need a bedikah? You see this machlokes. Is it considered, you hear, gerushin, a regular vest? So if it's a regular vest, with what will be ne'ekar? You would need three, right? And a bedikah. Mashenkein if it's not a regular vest, like ... and that's pshat in the Taz. Okay, now this. So if it's the veses l'fi tzad, do I have to say the veses l'sha'ot, say it right away, veses l'fi tzad? What? If it's talking about the veses l'fi tzad, gorem chitzoni, so do I have to say veses l'sha'ot? Yeah, but that's what he means, l'sha'ot after a ma'aseh. And we have to establish two halachos, like. It's a good kash, we need to separate halachos for. We're going to speak about this. Now, with this, yeah, with this I'm going to say a ... that could דאיג' you. Ready? You with me, Rafi? So far, it's good, it's good, you like it? Nice, nice, no? Okay. So we're left with a meiridikah kasha. According to the shitas that it's mamish ha'emes habest, so why is it nekev b'pam achas? Ready? If you learn that even if it's a vest l'atzmoi, but the pshat is it's a vest l'atzmoi within the vest. It's a vest l'atzmoi, but the pshat in this vest l'atzmoi is in a gevisa yom. It's in the yom of the chodesh, which is the kvias vest. In that she's kavua l'sha'os. Is it neker b'pam achas? Is it neker b'pam achas? Let's work the other way around. What happens if a woman has an onah on a specific time? Me'ikar hadin, does she have to keep a whole day? So we know exactly when it's coming. Right. It's a vest l'yamim also. What? It's a vest l'yamim. There are halachos, we say it's oker the shaah. You have to keep the entire onah. So I ask you why. Why do you have to keep the entire onah? From this I learned that the real onah is the yom. Shoys is not that. That's not what shoys is. Shoys isn't the oina of... what's the right word? It's not l'chumra, it's l'kula. Let me say it again. Remember I told you, a chakirah, I asked you every oina, the taanis, when I have to be poresh, or the pshat is when I don't have to be poresh. That's what Rabbi said with the ra'ah and the... Let's learn this way now. The yayin, the oina, is when you do have to be poresh. The sha, is meikil that I only have to be poresh l'sha, right? So we're already kavua that I have to be poresh anyway from the morning. You don't have the heter of when you don't have to be poresh only from four o'clock. In other words, huh?

Let me say it again. One time a day yom, the veset hayom, that takes precedence over the veset hashaah. Why? Because veset hashaah is a more... I don't even want to say the... I'd rather not say it. It works different. I think it works different. The veset hayom is telling me asur. The veset leshaah is telling me mutar, right? So it can't be that it's telling me mutar if you have a veset hayom just telling me that it's asur. You want to say that, but afterwards. I'd rather use it afterwards. Huh? So let's say it kal. You know why I'm saying it kal? Because that's nekevah pamach. That's what I want. I want that it's not real vest. Shaah is not when the Torah says ufrashtem. The idea of shaah is, mimeila you don't have to be choshesh till that shaah. It's not a kvias vest, milchas vests. You look at the Beis Yosef, it doesn't bring it as one of the vestos, because it's not a vest. You know what it is? It's a kulah. If they go, no, you have a kulah, they go for four o'clock. You hear? ... That same mechanism. Why does it work? ... Veset she'eino קבוע. She's supposed to see a plug of 23, not קבוע. It's not קבוע. I'm saying it's good stuff. I'm saying I'm not saying good. Yeah, what? You enjoyed it too much to wake up. You're supposed to feel a bit tired that you woke up. Yeah. She's ... three times at eight o'clock, okay? She's not ... So this, she's ... day 23 of Elul is coming up. All that is only eight o'clock. ... No, no, no, no, no. So what's going on? ... Vest hachodesh, huh? What? Vest hachodesh. Listen to me carefully. Vest hachodesh and vest haflagah is a mechayev. It's a mechayev. Vest with shoyes is a patur, that you don't have to keep the day because you have the shoyes. But that's only when the day is not kavua. And that could be nekar in one time, because you don't have the kula. That's really important. Vest hachodesh is an issur. Vest l'yamim is a kula, but that's only if you're not kavua for the yamim. If you're kavua for the yamim, you don't have this kula. And once you have the kula, but once it's nekar in one time, it's just a kula. It's not a mechayev. It's a prat in the vest hachodesh. I'll tell you what I have from this, you ready? The Chazon Ish comes along and says that how do we divide it? We mesharinan b'shois maniyos. What? Of the day. We take the shois maniyos in the day, and we divide the day. So I have a shaylah for you. What would be the nafka mina if I take shois maniyos, or if I say it's always at four o'clock? It's a nafka mina. Exactly. I hold that four o'clock is a vest. In other words, that's what I was asking: how could it be in the summer and in the winter it's the same four o'clock? What? Okay, so I'm going to tell you over Peldika haflagah. To what do we call that to come back at you, yeah? The haflagah learns that veses l'shoi...

This has to have a haflagah. It's a haflagah of hours. 462 hours. That's right. She's calculating 462 hours and 30 seconds. All right? 86, 462. So you saw this haflagah. So you know that I know what I'm talking about. I'm trying to get at the nekudah. If you learn it's a regular haflagah dehalacha, which means your thing is going to come l'sha'os, it's coming l'sha'os. It's coming l'sha'os. Haflagah was learning it's a regular case of haflagah. The only thing is, the haflagah, it could be narrowed down to a science of four o'clock. The inyan of haflagah that's mechayev, right? We go after the haflagah. Remember we said the pshat, it's not between one re'iyah and another; it's the amount of time between. So if we could get it down to moments, why don't we get it down to moments instead of days, right? That's how that haflagah is gevaldik. So according to him, you know what it is? I hold it's a regular case of haflagah. That's why it's not a separate case. According to haflagah, you know why the Beis Yosef doesn't bring it and the Terumas Hadeshen does? Where does he bring it? Haflagah. What was the kashya? Shoves l'sha'os—why can the Beis Yosef...? The Terumas Hadeshen, it's veses haflagah. So either we learn it's a chelek of veses hayom, it's within the yom what day, or according to—what should we call it?—according to the haflagah, it's a veses haflagah. Now let's make a cheshbon. You ready, Raffi? If you learn that it's a prat in the yom, it's a prat in the yom when she's going to see. And we learned that an oina is actually 24 hours. So should the cheshbon be with the whole oina? If you're learning that it's a zman, so you can have a zman a day, you can have a zman a zman, an hour. But if you learn it's in relevance to the day, so up the chazonish, maybe we should count the whole day. So the Chazonish, kamashma lan, we don't do it. That's why the Chazonish went out of his way to explain it. If you learn that it's haflagah dehalachos, that's haflagah, it's haflagah. If you learn that it's yom, it's a prat in the yom, right? So if you learn it's a vest for a zman, so four o'clock is four, the same way you have the vest in the yom, you have a vest for the zman. Four o'clock is four o'clock. Summer, winter, same way, the day earlier, day later, it's that day, okay? But if you learn that the pshat is, that it's in relevance to the day, what time of the day you'll see it, so maybe you should get the whole meis leis. You should chop it up in the zmanim of the meis leis, because it's about the zman in the yom. L'maaseh, the Chazonish still, we go after a 12-hour period. That's the hesber of the Chazonish. Rabosai, so he comes out a chiddush. So either vest hashois is what? Doesn't exist. Either vest hashois is—meaning it's only a kula. It's a kula. No, it's a kula, that you don't have to keep your kol yom. It's a kula. It's a kula. Either it's a kula. Either it's a kula, not a prat in the day, it's a kula. Either it's a kula, you don't have to keep the whole day; keep the shayach, because you have a way to figure out where it's by the shayachs. Or it's a—what is it?—or it's a vest for itself. Or it's a haflagah, vest haflagah. Or it's vest hayamim, but in the yamim, what time in the yamim? It's a prat in the vest hayamim. So repeat it again. Okay. Five you said. No, I said four things. I said one of four things. Yeah, again. Or like, what's it called? Or it's a vest tekufos, like the Taz. Or it's a vest tekufos like the Taz. Five. Okay, can I say it? Can I say it? Yeah, five times. Again, five times. Either vest l'sha'os, Daniel, is what? Either vest l'sha'os is kula, to be meikel not to keep the yamim, or vest hasha'os is a regular vest l'sha'os, its own vest, or chavdas— no, chavdas is in the yamim. It's a tayrif. Oh, the sidrei taharah. The sidrei taharah looks. Meila, every day you should be chayav.

Every day at four o'clock. What? You don't know what it means anymore? Every day. In the yom, the shaini yom. The question is as follows. ... Still, whenever a day that she has to be choshesh comes, it's five o'clock in the day. How can it be a prat in the day when the day itself is not? Question. Oh yeah, it's a good question. According to Chavas Daas, how does it work bichlal that the day you're not kavua, but on the every day too chosh, you know it's at four o'clock. Why not? The day that she has to worry, you know that comes at four. So what? But that day that she has to worry for, it will always come at four. Her periods are four o'clock. It's so big, so big. Okay. Or the pshat is it's a haflaga. What? Or the pshat is it's a vest hayom. Or, like the Taz, it's vest hakvitzes, ein kreisiu place. Okay? The Taz also says like that. According to the Taz, it's a vest hakvitzes. All right? And we had a third tzad in the Taz itself. Either the Taz means mamash vest hakvitzes, that the tefillah is being gorem it, or it has to do with the zman when the tefillah comes, and that answers your kasha. Remember you asked me, why do I need a special case of vest hakvitzes? So that's the sugya of vest hakvitzes later on, because it's not the exact same case. Vest hakvitzes, the kvitzes is gorem. Here it's takke the zman gorem it, but the zman is gorem it with a tefillah. I told you, what? It's murkav. It's something mixture. It's like a mixture, but it's the shaychus. It's the shaychus when she has. The other cases is murkav between two zmanim. Here it's takke shaychus. But the she'eilah is, which is totally after a tefillah. You know the case in the Gemara is not ein harga, rather. So it's not even a physical ma'aseh that's גורם it. It's the point that this time of the day, and then she goes in the street, people give her ein harga. Is that considered grama, or is that considered— Whatever it is, I'm not discussing grama, but whatever it is, it's not ma'aseh. It's not the sugya. She was scared of the people, no? Okay, so you understand the teretz to this kashya? He asked me, kashya according to this, it's vest hakvius. That's not mamash vest hakvius. Oh, yes. Okay, you mean the last part. Okay. It's mashma like it's a new thing, vest l'sha'os. He doesn't call it vest ha'sha'os; it's vest l'sha'os. What does it mean, vest l'sha'os? So either we say it's takanah d'vest, and that's why it's not vest ha'sha'os, but it's vest l— or it is. So one side is that it's a regular vest, vest ha'sha'os. אי דילמא it's vest l'sha'os, which means it's takanah d'vest at a wall, but it's a kula, like you don't have to keep the—. ממילא it's only a kula and it's nekar b'pam achas. אי דילמא, or we can come and say it's actually aflugah, it's a regular case of aflugah, like taflugah. Or the pshat is like the Chavos Daas, that it's a yom, and in the yom— what yom? What hour of the yom is it? See, I asked this kashya. L'choira it should be good when it's kavua. I asked this. I don't have a teretz to that kashya. I don't know. Hey, I really asked you that question. That wasn't what I asked you. Why is it only when it's— if it's out to the yom, let it be with the yom. I brought you this raya, that the fact that it can't be with the yom, it's mashma it's not a prat b'yom. I asked you this kashya, but the Chavos Daas is not learning like that. It's in the yom, but it has to do with the zman. So it's a prat in the yom. And then we have the Taz, that the Taz learns that it's vest hakvius, which means the tefillah caused it. So I say it's not either it's a regular vest hakvius, which is nekar b'pam achas, or it's this new thing, which is a zman which is dependent on a ma'aseh of tefillah. Somehow the maise tefillah is gorem this zman, but it's taka zman l'shois, and that's why he brings it here and it's not its regular case later on with kvitzes. Have a nice day.