Hilchos Niddah: Veses B’soch Veses—One Pattern or Two Established Vestos?

Transcript

Seif lamed beis. Pa'amim she'isha koivas lo vest b'soch vest. So first of all, what is pa'amim? There are times. Let me just say that there's such a thing called vest b'soch vest. It doesn't say pa'amim, and none of the other seifim does it say pa'amim. Say, yesh vest b'soch vest. What does it mean, pa'amim? Also, you have to understand ha'isha. I mean, what else is it? It's an ish? Who else is kovea vest? It should say, yesh vest b'soch vest. Talk about a vest b'soch vest. What does it mean, pa'amim she'isha koivas lo vest b'soch vest? So I think from here is muchach what it says in the Acharonim, that there is no such thing as really a vest b'soch vest. It's not one of the standard vestos, but it's a vest meyuchad l'isha. This particular woman has this vest, meaning if she puts this pattern, if she shows this pattern, mimeila you have to be choshesh by her for this pattern. But it's not a vest b'soch vest. So then it makes sense, pa'amim. We're not saying that there's such a thing called a vest. If it happens, pa'amim it could happen. What makes the vest is the fact that it happens. It's not a category of vestos. האם יש איזה דבר כמו וסת? אין כזה דבר. הכא, האישה הזו, this woman shows me that she has such a pattern. So that's pshat: pa'amim she'isha koveas lah. She makes the vest, ves bsoch vest. What's the nafka mina? We'll soon see. Ves bsoch vest, if it's a regular vest, would we say it l'chumra, l'kula? How about like this? If you have ves bsoch vest, keitzad? What's the example? Meaning, was the second vest bsoch before or after? When did the second vest become the ves bsoch vest? Was it before or was it after? Or during? During couldn't be, then she would see too many times during the month. Was it before or was it after? So this will soon see is the piskei teshuva, bringing the Noda B'Yehuda, okay? So let's see here, keitzad. ראתה שלוש פעמים בראש חודש, ורביעית בו' לחודש. Now, Rosh Chodesh sheach fixes b'chaf l'chodesh, וכן בחמישית ובשישית, הרי קבעה שתי וסתות. She was kovea two vestos. I thought she was kovea vest b'soch vest. What's the nusach, harei kava beis vestos? And you know what the teretz, rabosai, is? There's no such thing as a vest b'soch vest. This woman has two vestos. That's the pshat. Vest b'soch vest is a kvius of two vestos, not a kvius of a vest b'soch vest. You maskim? What's the title of vest b'soch vest? Within. Within her vest, right, there's other times which there's kvius in. I don't know if you'd say—you have to say it that way? I can tell you another way of saying it: that within her standards, she has other standards. I mean, is vest b'soch vest a stira? That's my question. Are they l'maaseh a stira to kovea vest? That's my question. That's really what I'm asking. I know it's very hard because you're not—you know. That's why it's, bashem, I'm telling you, it's bashert, it's min hashamayim, and we should do Hilchos Chanukah soon.

I really, bedavka, lo rotzeh likanes la-tarichim. Ein li et ha-zeh bishvil zeh. Ein li et ha... It's too much, too. It's too not negea for me to start taking the numbers. I want the klal, and I want to go vayter, okay? Od pa'am. Pa'amim sheha-ishah kovas lo vest, betoch vest. So he uses the word vest b'soch vest. So what would be so bad if he says, Harei kava vest b'soch vest? I mean, why don't you use the same terminology that you started with? You ask me, what other way would he say it? The way he said it: kava lo vest b'soch vest. Shehi kava vest b'toch vest. Harei zeh kava vest b'soch vest. But what do you need it for? What's it negea to me that it was kava for shtei vestos? Shekava vest b'soch vest. You started off, Pa'am sheishah kovas lo vest b'soch vest, harei ishah zu, harei kava... What do you need it for? Again, pa'am sheishah kovas lo vest. So finish. That's the halachah. What's harei kava? What do you want with harei kava? I don't know what you mean. Okay, listen to me, kid. You know, you gotta read what it says. I'm sorry, you're just not reading it if you're not working with what I'm saying. Pa'amim. What is pa'amim? What do you mean sometimes? What do you mean because it's lo shchiach? That's why? You mean so he has to tell you what's the negea? Just, hey, yesh ishah shekovas... I mean, what do you want? And ishah yesh vest b'toch vest, and that's all. What do you want with ishah? Pa'amim? What do you want? None of the other vests start off this way, that pa'amim an ishah can be kovea vest this way. Also, tamim. What is pamim? Do you see any other time it says the word pamim? Pamim is pamim. Rak l'hagid shezeh kol kach chachok? ... If you wrote it, obviously it's negeya, no? If you wrote it, then it's negeya. What do you— because it's not negeya, that's why you write pamim. Just, yesh kazeh tziur. Tagid, yesh kav vav bet, b'toch vaves, no? Pamim, sheha'isha kovas—not kovas vest, kovas lo. And that's the pamim. Pamim sheha'isha kovas lo. It's particular to the isha. This isha made herself her own mini personal vest. She made her own personal vest. And that comes from—because pamim, the pamim sheboi makes that. The pamim sheboi makes that, that it's she'isha kovas lah vest b'soch vest. Mimeila, I understand what he wants. Harei kavah shtei vestos. What are you telling me? Just say, harei kavah vest b'soch— You don't have to say anything. Hence he's saying a gevaldige vort. This woman doesn't have a vest. You know what she has? She has two vestos. She has two vestos. And you want to know, does the shayach to have two vestos? No. Not shayach to have two vestos. But this isha happens to have it. Each vest is actually a stirah to the other vest, especially if you hold that they're kovea vest. We'll soon see they're both kviusim. How could you both be—how could you have kavua to two stiradik vests? You have such a thing? Could you have a stira? Could you be kavua for one thing and then kavua for something else? Unless you say it's all one thing. He doesn't say that. He says it's two things. That's what I want. If the pshat is it's all one, so just say she's one big long vest, vest b'soch vest. But he doesn't say that. And the Mechaber is going out of his way and saying, הרי קבע שתי וסת, not קבע וסת בתוך וסת. It's not a cycle or pattern within. It's שתי separate vests. And that she has these two vests, that itself, that she has these two vests, that itself is what she has to be choshesh for like a vest. Could you come and say she has kvius for two? She has kvius for two. Yeah, she's something wrong. She's mixed up. Okay, you want to say it that way, say it that way. Now let's do the Noda BiYehuda. Shtei Noda BiYehuda, let's see the Pischei Teshuva. State in Pischei Teshuva, עיין בתשובות— Go ahead, read it.

So in other words, he's mistapek. Either means that he was two separate kvius, yeah? I know, because I agree with you. It doesn't read well in the beginning. Go ahead, yeah. Ein tzarich lachush she'eino kavua klal, okay? Okay. In other words, he's trying to say that if you see by the chaf, do you have to be choshesh to wait the next month, or do you have to wait till you see chaf three times also? Right, good. Now wait a second, read the next line, read the next line. Now, d'im tikva veses echad, eina chosheshes... o dilma... veses she'eino kavua shinta, v'lo ra'ata bakavua. In other words, One shinui and then kavua. No, then it wouldn't be a safek then. Then it wouldn't be a safek. Three, three. So three would be the case is three. The point is, she saw it the day that she wasn't supposed to, but then she also saw it the day she's supposed to. Right. So what would be the havamina to be choshesh for the twenty? Because if it would have been a shinui, she saw it, which means the day that she wasn't supposed to was a hakdama of something else. Right. So the yom haro'i she's not going to see. Right. So then... but she did see, though. Oh, she did see. One she saw, would you be choshesh on the twentieth? Yes. Why? Because you see, she's choshesh for to see on days that she's kavua and not kavua. Right. So we all happen again. It's going to happen on twenty-fifth. So let's say Rosh Chodesh, Rosh Chodesh, twenty-five. And then again Rosh Chodesh. Right, you're not going to be choshesh? Why not? Why would you be? You'd still be choshesh. According to him, you're not going to be choshesh. Why? Because this is hakdama. Who cares about it? Twenty is hakdama because it's far away from the one. No, it's not far or not. She'eilah is after twenty-five, did she see again Rosh Chodesh or not? In other words, had she not seen Rosh Chodesh, you definitely would not be choshesh for the twenty. No, for twenty, whatever. Let's say she... hikdima, bigdeal, fine. But now that she saw Rosh Chodesh, which means she's a woman that sees many times a month, so just because she's kavua for one thing, maybe she's not going to see again. I still wouldn't have a safek, because one day...

Just to be careful. Right. If the chash is, the way I understand, if the chash is that she could see within, doesn't that make more sense to call ves b'soch ves? If you learn that the sugya is that she could always see b'toch, which means it's shayach to have within, so the Shulchan Aruch is saying gevaldig a vort. So she could start making her own ves within the periods of the kvius. It's a meyridige sugya here. Since this woman is being mishaneh, that it's not her next time, but that within she's making, so now you know why the Mechaber used the lashon of ves b'soch ves. It's gevaldig. When I saw this Netziv Yehuda, you know what the pshat is? I saw the Netziv Yehuda, the genius of how he's opening up this seif. If the pshat is she saw, let's say, twenty, twenty and twenty, right, and then afterwards she sees fifteen, you know what the pshat is? Her next re'iyah. Now, her next re'iyah, you don't have to be choshesh for one time. There's nothing to be choshesh for. Why? Because her next re'iyah has to be by the kavua. But if she starts seeing before, which means there's like a new cycle going on, a new cycle within, so mimeila we could say there's something called a ves b'soch ves, pa'amim she'isha kovaas leves b'soch ves. So then she could start being choshesh for one time too. Like dilma d'ta'itzis, it's called a second kvius. A second kvius won't start unless you have a second kvius. The shakla v'tarya is what I asked you. The tzadim of the noidah b'Yehuda is this safek: is it a geder of ves b'soch ves, or is it a geder of shtei kfiyos? Shtei kfiyos, you're right, you need ninety days. What's it to talk about? No, you're never choshesh if you have three and then one comes. That's gufei safek. It can't be a safek like that. If, let's say, you have thirty, thirty, and thirty, and then all of a sudden the next time it sits thirty-five, you're finished with thirty-five. You don't think about it again. It's machlokes if it's vest haflagos also. There's a whole tumah. I don't want to go into it. It's a very simple thing. If, let's say, you have a kvius, you're never choshesh after a kvius. That's the Rama. You don't have to be choshesh one time. So let's read the Rama. D'im tikva ves echad, eina chosheshes l'sheini. That's what it says, right? So you're not choshesh. No, so I'm explaining to you what's going on here. What's going on is there'd be mechadesh that there's something new here. It's not pshat you're changing a second vest. Of course you're not choshesh l'sheini, but the safek is maybe it's the same one, but you're having it b'toch. That's the question of the noidah b'Yehuda. The safek is in this she'eilah. If we're going to learn there's something called a vest b'soch ves, so meileh she could start making that new vest even without three, and you would be choshesh. If it's one big vest. That's what I'm telling you. If you learn it's one big vest. So then it's all good, because it's shayach to go this way, and then she can start going backwards, and it's not a stirah to the first vest. Okay, let me say it again. I said some ... Shmuel. Shmuel. Let's see. ... לא יודע מה ... לא יודע. הלשון של השולחן ערוך נותן לי לחקור: ו' בסוף ו' לשתי ווין. What is this? כתוב. I'm not making it up. When he says, פעם שאישה קובעת לה ו' בסוף ו'. Raffi says, What does it mean, betoch? I don't understand what it means. I don't know what it means. But he says, right? I'm telling you what it means. If you learn it's betoch vest, it means it's not a stirah to the first vest. It's shayach that within her vestos, not being soiser the vest, she can start making up new ones. After she has three, now the next month, if she sees on a different day, that's soiser her original vest. That's called a stirah to her original vest, because the next time she sees was not supposed to be then; it was supposed to be some other time. But what about if she sees on her normal times, but she sees earlier?

So she's starting a new type of vest. She sees more. She's a more seer. She sees more. יש וסת בתוך וסת, so maybe we can start clearing on a one-time בתוך הווסת. אם היא רואה יותר מוקדם סימן שיש לה וסת בתוך הווסת. לא, אם זה מאוחר, אי אפשר מאוחר. המאוחר פירוש, so her next cycle didn't come when it was supposed to come. השולחן ערוך אומר ששייך מציאות של שתי וסת. אז הספק של שתי וסת תמיד, לא אם זה שתי נפרדים. I'm going to finish at about 1:30, is that okay? You have to leave? Okay, okay. I should have come earlier. חס ושלום, you don't see on the— I look down and I— everything, I can't start saying words, everything, ברוך השם, the best. Oh, so it's good then. Yeah, I'm just saying. No, you didn't see my face. If you didn't see my face, then yeah. We have to get to the חנוכה because... This is what I think. I think that there's two ways to learn this. One way to learn is there's two different קביעות, and in that case you have a problem with the רמ"א. Once you קובע one thing, you can't be חושש for another thing, till you קובע another thing. That's all. משא"כ if you learn it's a וסת בתוך וסת, so then you can be חושש for the וסת בתוך וסת even without the קביעות. Mechabes mechadesh to me that it's not a vest b'soch vest. It's rather, harei ze kavush shetei vestos. She was koveah שתי וסתות. Mimeila I understand the sugya. Paam she'isha koveas lah, that means it's her, because there is no such thing as a vest b'soch a vest. She rather showed stiradik of vestos. That's what I want to ta'ina. And then, af kamina, you hear it now? It's beautiful. The only thing is now, shayla, haflaga, yemei chodesh — there's machlokes, the Chazon Ish says it's on both. It's telling you this shayla: if you learn that it has to do with vestos, shekvius, it's shayach by the yamim. But if it works with haflagos, then pashut it's her. It's her. In other words, in her haflagos she has a vest b'soch vest. In yamim it's not shayach to say vest b'soch vest, because the vest means it's what yom you have to be zoher from. Once she's koveah שתי וסתות, it's stiradik of vestos, you're right. You're right, it's stiradik of vestos, and l'Chanami. Mimeila, what are you gonna do? She has stiradik of vestos. But if the pshat is it's about vest b'soch vest, it has to do with her haflagos. To make it not a stira. It's her haflagos. Okay, rabosai, let's stop over here with this. This is the vort I'm gonna say. Now I'll announce that.