Hilchos Vestos: Veses Haflagah, Shorter Intervals, and the Shach–Taz Dispute

Transcript

Okay. Halacha, כיצד ... שטרי דאלפנים, ... שווים בקיצור. סעיף ב' is about haflaga, vest haflaga. So the chiddush of the mechaber is that in order to make a vest haflaga of gimel to be kovea that vest, you need daled re'iyos, because the first re'iyah wasn't b'haflaga. The first re'iyah was not b'haflaga. Does everybody understand what I just said? Because if not, there's nothing to start. That's beis. Beis is vest haflaga, and the yesod of vest haflaga is haflaga, so therefore it has to be daled. Now, who is the author of this shita? So let's see inside. Beis, Tur, Rashba, right? Tosafos. Doesn't quote the Ramban, right? Now, it's interesting because the Ra'ah, who is actually the talmid of the Ramban, argues on this and says that no, even vest haflaga you kovea with three. Which means that, let's say, let's use aleph, because aleph is the easy one. Aleph, nisan to—well, you know what, aleph, let's use twenty because everybody uses twenty, and that's the one that they use. Okay, twenty days later, twenty days later, then twenty days later, haflaga becomes twenty. What could be the machlokes? The mechaber is saying a davar pashut, no, you need haflaga. The first one is not bafloga. So if the first one is not bafloga, in Yiddish we say, Es doch gerecht. He's right. So what could be the svara of the ra'ah? So I'm going to ask Rafi to please be masbir to me how he understood the ra'ah. Okay. So that means you understood him very well. What's takkeh pshat in the ra'ah? It's a pele, no? If you need hafloga, you need hafloga. Daniel knows? Okay. So I'm afraid that he knows too well and he'll steal my shiur, so let's leave it at that. Okay. Now, I'd like to discuss with you this shaila: what is called a vest hafloga? What is it? You know, hafloga means... hafloga means... give me the good word in English to describe the word hafloga. Intervals. Good. Very well, very well said. Intervals. So what is hafloga? Intervals. Hafloga means intervals. Intervals. Okay. Let's discuss an interesting scenario. A woman has a hafloga. A woman has a hafloga of 20 days, let's say. And all of a sudden, let's not even say with a kvius, she has hafloga two times. Then the third time, she has a hafloga of... 24 days. So what does she have to keep? She's not kavua, but she has a haflaga now of 24 days. So what would you say? 24. What happens if she had a haflaga of 12 days? A fluke happened. Something strange happened. 20, 20, and all of a sudden less. This is called a haflaga ketzarah after haflaga aruchah. Do you know any information about that? Does anybody know anything about it? You know about it? No. Okay, so I'm sorry that I'm going to have to bore you with the details. She keeps—why is she not keeping 20 and 22? She keeps because she wasn't kavua for anything. The last one. Yeah, but she's not kavua, so there's nothing what to talk about. Okay. So, Rafi, I'm going to ask you to do me a big toivah and to look at the Shach in se'if katan lamed aleph. Lamed aleph. And when we understand details about haflaga, we'll be able to understand well the machlokes...

Which claims to be a talmid of the Ramban, even though the Ramban himself is from the slew of Rishonim that hold like the Rashba and Tosafos. You have it? Huh? I know, yes, because we'll soon see the Rama's shita, but first let's see the Shach. Yeah. Okay. Let me tell you in short, in short, what's going on here. Haflogah ketzarah is an oikeres a haflogah aruchah. Everybody pay attention, because I'm going to give you—I see that I thought you would do this somehow, but all right, I don't know why I thought so. But anyways, haflogah ketzarah, a shorter haflogah, is a question if it uproots a haflogah aruchah. Shach, Shach speaks very strongly that we pasken haflogah ketzarah is oiker haflogah aruchah. Why? What's the issue? Why not? So if you look at the Rama, the Rama, kuf pei tes se'if yud gimmel, which is the Rama you were reading, the Rama says clearly that haflogah ketzarah, here. Go ahead, read it, read it. Right.

I'll tell you what my problem is going to be. It's a dikei derabbanan, but it's this halacha derabbanan. I'm saying the question is only how to go about teaching it to you if you don't know the Rama. So you know what I could do? Okay, so I'll tell you. It's not a complicated—I know, but they're not going to know aleph and chaf and haflagah. This is the machlokes. This is the shaylah. If haflagah here, it's this thing. Rav, should we do it with the numbers or should we do it with the klalim? Okay, so let me try with the klalim first, and then you'll do it yourself and you'll see that it's in the numbers, because the Rama does it with the numbers. The way it works is like this: if there's a vest of haflagah of twenty days, and then it turns into a vest of twelve days, does that one twelve-dayer undo the other twenties? Could haflagah ketzarah? So the Shach says, why not? Which is what you just said. Why not? This is the new haflagah. The Ramo says that it does. You always have to be choshesh for the old haflagah of twenty because it's not ikar. The previous month's twenty. A haflagah ketzarah does not undo a haflagah aruchah. This is a machlokes. Now, to complicate things a little bit more, the Taz, the Taz, in kuf pei tes, se'if katan yud ches, is going to say that actually you have to be choshesh for two days for the haflagah aruchah, which means the haflagah aruchah was twenty. No, it became less. The haflagah ketzarah. The aruchah turned into a ketzarah, so ketzarah— Ah, from the ketzarah. That's what the Taz says. You see Rufi? You see Rufi? Can רבי say it again? I could say it again, but you know what it is? It took me so long to figure out what, you know, the case. It made me so nervous. But this is the case. So I'm trying to give it to you in a short, you know, ... You hear? So he wants to say that you count twenty days from the last re'iyah, right, and twenty days from the old re'iyah. It becomes twenty twice. There's two twenties. Okay, Rafi, get up. Yes. You can do whatever you want, but get up and explain it. Give numbers and dates. Go, give numbers and dates. In Aleph Nisan, day first of Nisan. Then she sees the second time on the 20th of Nisan. He has a list. Okay? So far there's a haflagah of 20 days, okay? Then something happens. She sees Rosh Chodesh Iyar, 10 days later. Big change. Shaila. She was supposed to be choshesh for tet Iyar. If you would have counted al pi haflagah, it should have been tet Iyar, but she was nine days early. Do we say tet Iyar is canceled because she already saw, or not? That's machlokes number one. The Rama says she is choshesh. The Shach says she's not choshesh, because nekar. Okay? That's called tzfarei. Shach says it's called a— What? No, nekar. Al yedei ketzarah. Okay. The Rama says she's still choshesh. Comes the Taz and says not only is she choshesh for the date that she was kovea originally, which is tet, but you also have to add 20 to the new date, which means from Rosh Chodesh Iyar add another 20, and that's going to be a new thing. It means she's choshesh for haflagah of 20 from the old date and from the new date. Okay, so it's good, it's good. Okay. So the Taz is shalom, and the Taz is right. Okay, so now it's very interesting here.

Klal is, in the Rama, A, do we pasken like the Rama? And if we do, how do we learn up the Rama? The Bach disagrees with this, and he says like this: Haflagah aruchah is einah nikeres, u'moneh miriyah es hahaflagah ha'aruchah. From the re'iyah, the second re'iyah, piece of it. The Bach. No, he doesn't. Right, the date. Right. The second part of the taanis, which is not — that was not the shech. Not the shech. So who? Because we don't care about it. Because haflagah aruchah is einah nikeres. Yeah, but you should at least have the haflagah ketzarah. Let him say. Alaf ches on chof ches, that was twenty days. Then she's so out of schedule on Rosh Chodesh Tishrei. So we said, shailah: according to the Rama, you still have to now wait ten days later, and tet iyar she still has to wait, because it's not מוכר. And the Taz says the opposite. Not only is she choshesh for tet, she also has to wait twenty to this date, which is chof iyar; she also has to be choshesh. Comes the baal and says, No. Ted is gone. Why is it gone? Because I guess she was... Yeah, but why would you have a plug of ten days? Because you had from Chag to... ten days. But it's a ktzara; it's not negea. So what? We're not... We're not next of the ktzara. We're not going to count with that number. Right. You have to have twenty, right? Yeah, but why don't we keep this a plug of ten days? Why don't we... From the ktzara, you have the arucha, which is the second part of the Taz. But not the first part of the Taz. You have to be choshesh twenty from the old. U'moina meriya, from the second re'iya, es hahaflaga arucha. You don't do it the nine; you don't do it. You do it twenty. Twenty from Rosh Chodesh. This is the machlokes, okay? Now, the truth is, you could learn this and say it's a number game. And why they argue? Because everybody has to argue with the other guy. That's what it sounds like. You say twenty, I say ten. I say the longer way. I say the shorter way. Twenty, I say from here. I say from here. I don't like to learn that way. It causes me great pain. I mean, they're just arguing on numbers. There's got to be something behind it, no? So are we by any chance talking about science? Is that the machlokes? A science machlokes? I don't know. What would you say, Rav? Right? So what are they arguing? It's good stuff. It's good stuff. You see, this is where I come in. I see a machlokes like this, and I zoom in. Wait a minute. What are you arguing? Why? You say 20 from the end, I say 20 from the end, I say 10 from the end, you say 20 from the end, I say the short one, the long one. What are you arguing? Now, I just want to tell you an interesting halacha l'maaseh from this. I thought it was very interesting. This chiddush, this Bach is called, for some reason, the Beis Meir's chiddush. That's what it's known in Hilchos Niddah, the Beis Meir. Who do we pasken like? So I thought it's כדאי to see the Shevet HaLevi brings klalim here in Hilchos Niddah, which I thought was interesting. He says as follows: first of all, when there's a machlokes, the Shach and the Taz, who do we pasken like? Shevet HaLevi says we pasken like the Shach. Pasken like the basra, Shach. We pasken like the Shach. Which is interesting, because the Shach l'choira is being cholek on the Rema. So in other words, we pasken like the Shach even where it's keneged a mefurasher Rema, or al kol panim the shitas haRema. What about the Beis Meir? He says that we don't pasken like the Shach keneged the Beis Meir. Huh? I guess. But it's a chiddush to me. You knew this? Could you—

Read it. It's here on this seif, go ahead. But I have a shaylah if he meant it hilchas nida, if he meant klaliusdik, I'm not sure what he meant. Read it inside. I thought it was a very interesting thing; it caught my eye. Yeah, yeah. So fine, find the Beis Meir and the Shach, fine. Six pages, you find. You're not born yesterday. Come on, you can do it. I have faith in you that you're able to find it. Are you with me? I know it's a little bit boring. I can't help it. It's rather a boring topic. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. This is its numbering, so what should I do? But are you masking to me that it's very strange that one says twenty, the other says twenty from here. The other says, no, it's twenty from here. The other says, no, it's ten because of haflagah. What are they arguing about? What? What are they arguing about? I hold that if you unravel this machlokes, haflagah becomes clear. What is haflagah all about? What is the veses haflagah? I think it's the key to what is veses haflagah. Hafsarah being oiker an aruchah. You hear it? Okay, go ahead, read. Read the klalim, no? Give it to me, please, please. Let's make it. You're boring. Noivis when this happens, noivis. Uh-huh. V'nimtza l'shachafah v'l'tazli nekev, v'hai mashkan l'kaman al shach siv katan lamed aleph. So let's see the Shach. You have it, the Shach, sif katan lamed aleph. You have it? Come on, come on, Nu. Nu. Nu! One second. The Shach, seif katan lamed aleph. So where's the Shach? What is the Shach, seif katan lamed aleph? No, no, he says, ayin mah shekasavnu al haShach, seif katan lamed aleph. What's the Shach over here? Oh, seif katan lamed aleph. Here it is. Here it is. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Oh, here it is. Okay. Ad sheyavo shir haflogah. Here it is. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay. I can't find it now. Hey, it says here, u'shemira leivi. Oh, maybe that's why. ... That's why. We have it. This is where I saw it. ... Here it is, this piece. You see it? It's on page kuf chav-vav. You have it? It's in the middle. ... u'v'shulchan Aruch HaRav, ... lo ro'eh divrei Ramban, ... like a tad, like a shachal, k'beis me'ah. Here it is, this. You see it? I know, over there he says there's a klal. I saw it there, man. I saw it over there. The crazy... that's where I saw it over there. I saw it over there. Okay, so I have to bring it to you. I don't have it. Okay. Okay, this is it, that the klal is like the beis me'ah. Okay, over there he uses these klalim, that even though we pasken like the Shach כנגד the Taz, it's not כנגד the beis me'ah. Over there he says. Okay, now, so what's the machlokes? Ready? What's the machlokes? What's the machlokes? What's the machlokes? Let's discuss it.

Does anybody know by vestus, does it make a chiluk if it's by night or by day, in order to be kovea vest? You see it in the night? If you saw it by night, and then the next time you see it by day, so it's not the same vest. I don't understand the question. Or not. But if you saw it at night and the next time you again saw it at night. Let's take a look where this is coming from. Does anybody want to know where this comes from? This comes from the mefurash Shulchan Aruch, kuf pei tes, se'if yud gimmel. That's where it comes from. It says clearly that it has to do oisah onah, with the same onah. Yeah? Oh, onah. Okay? Do you argue with this? No. None of the poskim argue. This is a davar muskam. But of course, like everything in learning, there always has to be a chakirah attached. Comes along the poskim and they say, Wait a minute. What case did the Mechaber bring? Which veset did he talk about? Ah, the yom hachodesh. Yom hachodesh, which תלוי in yom. So the yom has to be with the kedushah of yom oi laylah, onos. But when it becomes a shailah of vest haflagah, it doesn't make a difference. Time. How much time? What does time have to do with onot? It doesn't have to be the same. No, it has to be from Yom Tov to Yom Tov. Yeah. No chiluk. Only when there's Yom HaChodesh do we care about that. We don't care. Now, the Aruch HaShulchan rips at this, stark, stark. Mamash, he rips at it. He goes, What is the difference? What's the difference? It's all about time is time, and if it's not the same, a day is not a day. Maybe we should start working on the hours of the day. If you want to start being nitpicky, afternoon of the day. Aruch HaShulchan goes very stark against it. And he says, U'deloi k'mo shera'isi l'echad hag'dolim. One of the gedolim. That scares me, see gedolim. What gedolim? Do I have to look at the Yated to find out who the gedolim are? Do I have to look at the Hamodia to find out who the gedolim are? Which gedolim are we referring to? For some reason, he doesn't like to, like, I guess because he's arguing so vehemently, he doesn't want to, like, let the secret out. It's the Noda B'Yehuda. The Noda B'Yehuda in Tinyana, siman pei gimel, says that we're not chayish for ones. How did who find it? What's it? It's a famous thing. How did he find it? It's a famous thing. It's like saying, How did you find it? It's one of the most famous things. Now, but it's strange that he comes and says, Echad hag'dolim. Okay, so you want to look at Aruch HaShulchan and see Chavah. See Chavah, you come to what he said. What are you talking about? The Noda B'Yehuda said, Wait a minute. The Mechaber says that it's only Yom HaChodesh, maybe it's dafka Yom HaChodesh only, only, only Yom HaChodesh. U'deloi k'mo shera'isi b'echad hag'dolim. That he brings Aruch HaShulchan, I don't think so. This is not for him. This is not his. No, no Aruch HaShulchan there, huh? Huh? How could you not bring Night Bihuda? He wants, How do I know the Noda Bihuda? It's like the most famous thing, the Noda Bihuda. My best haflagah is, there's not Noda Bihuda. It's the most famous thing. If anything about vest is, you got to know this Noda Bihuda, the big thing. Don't say Noda Bihuda. Ah, you see? Look at the bracket. What does he want? The answer is he didn't want—he felt very uncomfortable to say Noda Bihuda, I disagree with him directly. It's a very strong lashon. Well, if I can, he's trying to say that even though I disagree with him, he's like the Mishnah Berurah writes about the Meshech Chochmah. I don't know, it's an interesting lashon. Just say Noda Bihuda argues, and then he goes—it's an interesting way of writing. Okay, I just thought it was interesting. Okay, but you see the way he rips at it, you saw? Nearly barur. Read the beginning of that piece. Barur, without question, barur. He doesn't quote the Aruch HaShulchan, because he quoted someone argues on the Noda Bihuda. Don't tell me that.

I want to know if any of the chidushim bring the sarcha. That'd be an interesting thing to watch. Huh? ... אחרונים ... It's so clear. He started that. Okay, but kitzur, he says, like, ... what's the machlokes? So, what's the machlokes? If you didn't know how to learn, you don't know what he was talking about. What was he saying? Well, because he had a dik in the Shulchan Aruch. That's all. Obviously there's more to that, right? So what's the hesber? Let's discuss, Rafi, what the machlokes is. What is the machlokes? Ready? I want to know, is the taich in machlokes the intervals between when she doesn't see, or when she does see? That's right. Is it the time she saw, how much time till the next time she saw, or it's about how many times she doesn't see, or she's not going to see? Let's start again. I hold I just mamish hit a gevaldige zach. I just mamish, I'm telling you, I hope it's beautiful. Huh? What do you want to say? What do you want to say? What? What? What? That's exactly where I'm getting at. That's exactly, that's my raya. That's where I proved from. Okay, let's discuss it one more time. You ready? That's my raya. My raya is from the Shulchan Aruch Harav, yes, from that, from techilas re'iyaso. It's exactly what I'm getting at. Let's discuss it. Is the taich in re'iyas, in haflagah, when I did see, or the time of when I don't see? Okay, let's discuss now another yesod. Let's discuss another. You ready? Every veses is the taich when I have to worry when it's going to come, or every veses is it's mutar when I know it's not going to come. Is veses when it's aser, or is veses when it's mutar? I would say when it's aser. That's the pashut, right? ... it's about when it's coming. How about seeing it from a different angle, that kol zman it's not the veses, then it's mutar. You ever see a nusach in the Rishonim, ba'alah shelo b'shaas vestah? Huh? Seems like this: kol zman it's not her veses, it's mutar. You ever see this lashon? In other words, is veses to aser... Or is veset to be mater, which means is kol zman it's not the veset, then it's mutar. Now, let's— No, what it is is you're allowed to live with a woman when it's not her time of veset. No, it's not necessarily. Don't say that. Could be that's mutar. There are three whole vesets derabbanan, right? Then obviously the whole reason why we have it is to tell you when it's asur to be. Kol isha, you're allowed to be bo aleha shelo b'shaas vesta, without asking her. I don't know, maybe the pshat in veset is— Oh, I understand. So the second side of the coin is because now that we have a din of meila, maybe it's not that way. Maybe that is the din of veset. The din of veset is that it's mutar shelo b'shaas vesta. You agree with me? It's possible. I didn't say it's real, but it's possible. What do you say, Rafi? It's definitely possible, right? You thought of this? You thought of this? But you hear where the mind is going. You hear where the chiddush, the chiddush is setting in, toming in. Okay, so let's discuss again. Is veset, the pshat is—

To make mutar or ta'asur, okay. This, nikoid haiklala biyadcha as a hakdamah to the whole sugya of vestes. We have a lot of vestes ahead of us, okay? Nikoid haiklala, use this klal. Now, let's see an interesting nafka mina. Is there a nafka mina between the different vestes? Are some of them de'oraisa, some of them derabbanan? Does anybody know how vestes works? Are some of them more chamur, some of them less chamur? Huh? What are you saying, Daniel? Are some more chamur, some less chamur? Some are more, some are less. What would you say, eino b'einis is? It's a machlokes if it's more chamur or less chamur, right? Give me the machlokes. Who says what? Right, we said we learned this, right? Even on a ves kavua, it's called a ves kavua, right? Eino b'einis. According to some, what's it called? A vest she'eino kavua. Yes or no? Are all the vestes the same chiyuv? Let's say a woman doesn't know. Let's not say it that way, I don't like that. Is safek vestes de'oraisa or derabbanan? Safek vestes lekula ul'chumra. That's so cool. All vests, is that like that? Okay, I want you to write this down for homework, okay? The following homework: are all vests—what do you have over there?—that davening before shkia. Put that. Yeah. I want you to do this for homework. Are there certain vests which are more chamer or less chamer? I want to know if they're all the same. The equality of the vests, are they all the same? Okay. Now, I want to know the following. Ready? Let's move to the next point. There's an interesting Shulchan Aruch Harav, Shulchan Aruch Harav, that says a chiddush nifla, and the Chasam Sofer argues on this chiddush, and that is that when do you start counting, right, the haflagah, from techilas re'iyah or soif? So Shulchan Aruch Harav says, you know what that means? Do you know what that means? Moshe, explain to him. Rafi, explain techilas re'iyah and soif. They say that everybody argues, but they say that in Chabad some do it. It's machlokes in Chabad how to do it. The dayas in Chabad, they do it also. She has to count. She has to count 20 from when you start. Okay. So the Chasam Sofer says a pashut zach, right? The teshuvah is siman kuf samech vav. I mean, the haflagah is when she'll see, right? He says there's Shulchan Aruch HaRav. No. The way it works is, the interval is when she doesn't see. The number of the gap. The number of the gap, exactly. Right? So according to the Shulchan Aruch HaRav, he's saying, my lomdus, my lomdus was, I was trying to clarify a she'eilah: is the haflagah about when she will see, or is the haflagah about when she doesn't see? Are you aware that the Rambam clearly writes that by ones...?

You start from the re'iyah. Yeah, because he doesn't pasken like Beis. But he himself, I'm seeing the Shachar Rav is me'oirer this. Bring me the Shachar Rav. He's me'oirer that shita. One hundred percent, I'll show it to you in one second. Where does he quote the Shulchan Aruch Harav from? Which piece is he going from? Kuf pei daled, this one, the one that he says in the bottom. What? Chaf pei, right, that's this one. Okay. Kuf pei daled, right? Chof beis, huh? Kuf pei daled, chof beis. Kuf pei daled, chof beis, here. Okay, here it is. The basar techilas haveses, linan, v'ein leh leshamesh משום שעת הווסת, כמו בראי מרובה מקודם הנץ החמה. Okay. מה שאין כן ... ענין פרישת העונה. Uh-huh, uh-huh. אבל אם לא נזדקק ... בתחילת הווסת. ... ווסת ... גימל פעמים. ... קמא סימן קפה. Uh-huh, here it is. וכיוון שפליגו מה שאין הרואה, ... ובסימן קפה טס, דרוב נשים, you have it, דרוב נשים יש להם וסת שוה, כך וכך יום, הוא המים ... עד שיחשב ויפטור בתחילת ראייה. ... מים ... קפה טס, there we go, C4, C5, קפה טס. וסת שוה, כך וכך יום. Uh-huh, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring me the Rambam. Let's see how the Rambam brings this halacha down. The Rambam brings the halacha that it's from techilas reiya. Shayla is what he's talking about. Do you know what I'm talking about? Okay. Right. Techilah v'sof. Now he talks about haflaga. He talks about a story about haflaga, yeah? Talks about haflaga. So they're all like that? All the veses are like that? The what? Let me show it to you. Okay, let's do it.

באסלי לאילא לאדם שיבוא על אשתו, סמוך לווסתה, שמא תראה בשעת תשמיש. דארך ליראות ביום, דארך ליראות ביום, אסור לשמש מתחילת היום. הוי, דארך ליראות בלילה, אסור לשמש מתחילת הלילה. So it says clearly from when. ממשתא ריא? No. Huh? Again. Again. ואסור לאדם שיבוא על אשתו סמוך לווסתה, שמא תראה דם בשעת תשמיש. שנאמר, ... ותומאתה. וכמה? אם היא דרכה ליראות ביום, אסור לשמש מתחילת היום. הוי, דרכה ליראות בלילה, אסור... So it says clearly. What? Yeah, what's the shaila? Why? It doesn't make a difference. I'm asking, so what's l'maaseh? L'maaseh, in other words here, nemenes. Give me one more second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying, but how would you count that? How would you count from the... Give me one more second. I have to see one more thing, and then we can figure this out here. Choshesh l'yom lamed. One more second, one more second. The Gemara, Tazvav amud aleph. You hear? Tazvav amud aleph. And where's the Rambam? Yeah, so what do you have? You have the Rambam? You have it?

Listen what I... let me tell you what's going on. I don't know, for some reason I can't find the nusach I'm looking for. I'll tell you what's going through my mind. You ready? What I want is, you ready? This is what I want. Where the sheilah is, where the sheilah is when she saw and when she will see again, then we go after techilas re'iyah. Where the sheilah is where she didn't see, where she didn't see, then we go after sofek. Certain vestes is when she will see. Certain vestes is where she's not going to see. Yeah. With this, we can explain klal, all the machlokes that we learned. And let's start from the beginning. I started off by telling you, do you need four, or even three times is good enough? If you learn the pshat is when she saw, so once she saw three times, so there's no difference. Now, Rafi, you have a pshat in the ra'ah? If the taich in haflagah means when she did see, it's not how much intervals that she didn't see. It's not about the intervals. It's about when she saw, right? When are you supposed to expect? So if she saw three times, so then she has a chazakah. It's because the point of haflagah is not so much the interval. It's about the seeing, and when is the day that you expect her to see.

There's no reason to think that way. There's no solid, but the other two make the first one solid. Huh? We don't look at the gap. We look at what happened. So then it doesn't make a... You don't need four. You don't need four. Three is good enough. Because you're looking at when she sees, not at when she... If you... What? You don't... Let's see. Huh? Is the day for the gap or the gap for the day? That's right. If the day is... Who's... Right. Who's making what? Is the day making the gaps, or is the gaps just telling me when the day is going to come? The word haflagah is about the times in between when she sees. So you don't have three of those times till there's a fourth time where you have three. But if the pshat is that it's not about the times when; it's about the re'iyah, so three re'iyahs is good enough. When she doesn't see — rather, when she sees — the second re'iyah makes the first re'iyah a haflagah; it works backwards. That's the... Rav is not happy. And he'll get up and explain. Explain, explain to Moshe. I gave up on that. Write Moshe, write, he wants to see it. Go ahead. I'm trying. I think it's like this. What's the main thing? You want to set up the haflagah itself. Is the haflagah itself the one which you're looking for? I was like, you're looking for the haflagah. Are you looking for the gaps in between? Two gaps is not three gaps. Until you don't have three gaps, you have to wait till four to make three gaps. But the gap is just to tell me when to worry about when the re'ah is going to come. It's only a heichi timtza to tell me this time I have to start worrying. So once you saw from one to two a gap of 20 days, so one is a problem already too. Why is one already a problem, man? Because the gap is not a shaylah of—the gap is what we're looking at. The idea is— That's shitas haRa'ah. The shitas haRa'ah is learning that the ikar is the re'iyah; it's not the haflagos. The ikar is the re'iyah. L'maaseh, you saw three times. He says the ikar is the re'iyah. Who said? Who said? I understand that the lomdus—I understand what the lomdus, I understand. I'm just telling you that the Ra'ah was taking this lomdus and saying, Wait a minute, ikar is the re'iyah. Who cares what the haflagos are about? The haflagos is just when to worry about the re'iyah, that's all it is. The haflagah just tells me that if there was two haflagos, and then the next haflagah—in other words, if you're looking to use the haflagos as a zman hamutar, you need three haflagos like that. But if the haflagah is just when we have to start worrying when the re'iyah is going to come, so the one to two is haflagah of 20, I already have a problem with one-two. One is also a problem. I see she sees one, and then 20 days later she sees. I see between the 20 days she saw one and two. Huh? I hope that's ga'inus. These guys are looking like I know what I'm talking about. Huh? No, no, you have to appreciate this. This is such beautiful. It's so beautiful. It's Pashupshat d'ra'ah, how else do you learn d'ra'ah? Okay, let's say it one more time. Matthew, you ready? Concentrate on the words, okay? Are we looking for intervals? And the intervals is what's mutar, כאילו you have a chazakah on the intervals. So you need three intervals to judge. You don't have it till there's a fourth re'iyah. If you're looking to see how many days cause a re'iyah, how many days cause a re'iyah, so if you see that it was 20 to the first, right, then 20 to the second, so you see even one re'iyah to two re'iyahs is a 20-day difference. Re'iyah one to re'iyah two was a 20-day difference. So she had one re'iyah. Of course you count the first one. Of course you count the first one. If you're counting the second one, then behechrech you have to count the first one.

If you're counting the first one, then you have to count the second. You hear that? Tell me something. Could you have two haflagas? Could someone have two haflagas? Does that make sense? Could you have two haflaga? Could there be such a thing as a Taz that wants to learn two haflagas? He wants to be choshesh twenty from two days? Huh? That's gufa the machlokes. How is that a machlokes? The question is, what is mutar? What haflaga is mutar? You can't have metzius of two haflagas. There's no such thing. The words don't make sense. Can a person have two haflagas? There can't be such a thing. The taich of haflaga means how much time's in between. Could a person have two haflagas? This can't be such a thing. If you learn that taich of haflaga means not intervals, but it's when days that she's ra'uy to see. So what's the difference? Sometimes she's ra'uy to see, and she's ra'uy to see here. You can have two different days. An interval is a metzius, what it is, right? That you can't have two. You can't make intervals. Then one interval is asur to the other one. You can't have— Can I ask you a question? Let's say, how big is your pocket, right? Could you have one pocket, one pocket, huh? Could you have one pocket and say that it has two sizes? Then it's not one pocket anymore. Now, you want to know how big the pocket could be. Well, if it's a pair of pants, it can have a small size. It depends what size it is. This woman can have any size pocket. That's the question. But if you're mechayev מצד the intervals, the intervals can't be two. There can't be two haflagos. It could be changing haflagos, but it can't be haflaga that's asering you because of each haflaga. You can't have two haflagos asering. It doesn't make sense. Could you have two haflagos asering you? I just want to know. Could there be such a thing? No, I mean something's wrong, because then it's not the— if this is the interval that asers you, so then this is the interval that asers you. But if haflaga always means yamim sheyaldu liro'os— Oh, you have something good. I think he asked this kasha. Who's this? Let me see. Huh? I mean, how could you have two haflagos? That makes sense. He brings this? Let me hear, what does he say? Let's read it. Right. Yeah. Listen, listen, because if they hear from Avnei Shayim, it's much better than hearing from me. Okay, so good. Now I'm getting consulted. Go ahead, yeah. It's exactly what I'm saying. Right, because we're not going in that flog, we're going in the re. It's exactly what I'm saying. Okay, so I'll say it. They don't like dafni bilui, they like dafni sheyim. Okay. Huh? Oh, now it's good. Now Rebbe likes. Now, very. It's like you, right, the first time, like, he doesn't like it. Okay, so I want you to know that I love my boy. I'm here for him. Don't you understand? I really don't. Let me tell you something. You think I'm upset when he argues with me? It's the greatest thing that could have ever happened. You think I want to come in, I should say Torah and you'll say, Yeah, yeah, very good, further. I want that. I want to learn also. I'm here that you should challenge me. I like it. Really? Yeah. You don't see I enjoy? What are you talking about? This is the enjoyment. No, otherwise I wouldn't call on you on every third word. I call on you. I want you to challenge me. I want—maybe I don't. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you, you don't think I know.

You guys are learning it and I'm not. I'm not. I'm just, from the top of my head, making up shiurim, you know what I mean? I don't have time for this. You guys are working on it, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I make a mistake. Maybe I missed something. I don't know. I'm not looking at all the sefarim. Maybe I missed something. I don't have time for that. It's just what's... when I see the... oh, I have a taich in the... Maybe others say it also, Baruch Hashem. Baruch shekivanti l'daas haShayach. No, be'emes, I asked you. I want you to challenge me. I hold the derashah in the... is beautiful. And with this, I'm telling you, go back and be mazhbir the machlokes if a ketzarah could undo an aruchah. Why? Think of the taich, please. If the pshat is haflagah, which means when you'll see, so l'maaseh, the Shach pashut, you'll see. You saw the last haflagah was this. But if you're looking at an haflagah, if you're looking at an haflagah, which means to be mechayev an interval, right? You can't have two different intervals. You can't have two different intervals. Zogt the Taz, wait a minute. Haflagah ketzarah is going to be oiker, not oiker. Maybe you could have two different intervals, meaning not the interval sheba'ikar. Yeah, so then how come by haflagah... You can have two different times of re'iyah. Haflagah, dilug three times is enough, right? The Rama. Rama is saying maybe you could have two times of re'iyah. Who said? What's wrong? Who says so? To keep out. That's what the Taz said. Keep two different... two different times. What about haflagah b'dilug? Why not? What's wrong? It has different days, three times. Okay, dilug is the next... All right, you hear where I'm going at? You hear? You'll do chazarah, you'll work on it. And this is the nafka mina. If you go after the ona, if you go after techilas ona, not techilas, it's also the same nafka mina. If you learn that it has to do with when she saw, it's about the re'iyah. So then it's the same thing, like every other, like chodesh. So again, it depends if it's yom valaylah. But if it has to do with interval, interval is really not nogea. Within the day, it's not nogea. If you want to set up a zman when you have to worry, so then there's ones. But when you start talking about the intervals, the intervals don't have to be with ones, maybe. That's what the Noidah B'Yehudah wanted to be mechadesh. It's an interval. That's what he says, ... It's not about a time. It's not about an exact day, a time. I wish I have a nice day. It's hard. We have a lot of fighting ahead of us. We have a lot of fighting. My shaila is, if it's about an interval, how can an interval, Rebbe just said, how can ... contradict, Rebbe?