Hilchos Kesamim: Kesamim in a Ketanah, Shiur Kigris, and Teliyah B’Macholes

Transcript

We're gonna start beis, tzadik beis, inyan of tinokes, and then we'll jump to hei some. We'll start the inyan of kesem and gris. Okay. The din of tinokes, lo gazru b'tinokes l'hagia zman liros, d'hainu shehi pchusah miyud beis. So they weren't gozer b'tinokes, even if she was b'vias ayris, all this, but weren't they gozer? They weren't gozer on the kesamim. They weren't gozer on kesamim. What happens in case it's not a kesem, but rather it's al gufa, peirush, it's not a hargasha, it's not a hargasha. So l'choira, without a hargasha, there's a whole tumah, it's a whole question halacha if it's d'Oraisa, d'Rabbanan. So the question is, when it's without a hargasha, without a hargasha, and it's nimtza al ha-besorah, so it's not ma'aseh kesem, does tinokes have that? Because the lo gazru is by kesem. Hargasha she'll still have, right? That's klar, that if there was hargasha. So what happens if it's no hargasha and it's nimtza al besarah? So there's a Bach, that the Bach says that on such a case she taka be tamei. Says the Bach, such a case she'd be tamei. Haksamim lo gazru. Aber this is not kesamim. So what is it then? It's vad that yatza migufah, meaning we know for sure that it came from her. Pshat is it's without hargasha. So where's the lo gazru over there? What's your question? How do we know for sure? When it's al gufah, we say that it's mimena. Yeah, what do you say, Rafi? We say it's mimena, no? Right. So it's mistama it's from her. So the shaylah is what do we do with that? So the Bach says over there we didn't say the halachah. Shach says, se'if katan daled, that no, lo plug. It doesn't make a difference. L'maaseh it's not a hargasha, so it's a kesem. Therefore it's lo plug. I want to ta'ina a hezber in the machlokes, how they argue. Once it's plug and once it's lo plug, ken zayin. Bach says that even though it's not dam with hargasha, it's not a kesem either. L'maaseh, this is not called a kesem. So my shaila is, why? Why should it be that way? What's dam pluga, lo plug? They're arguing, kein pluga, lo plug. I want to say a taich. What is a kesem? A kesem is something which is not dam niddah, which is what I spoke to you about in the past. We asked this: is every kesem that taich not flow, so it turns into kesem? Or is every kesem that taich that it's a kesem? It has nothing to do with dam. There's such a thing called a kesem. In more explanation, I would explain to you like this: kesem could come from a choles; it can come from a bug. So whenever you have a kesem, it's a thing for itself, and the question is, should I attribute it to a bug or can I attribute it to her? But there's such a thing called a kesem. Or the pshat is anything which isn't a flow, anything which is not the—

Regular nidus is called a kesem. It has a din of a kesem. So I want to tie that that's the machlokes. The bachal, a kesem is a kesem. There's something called a kesem. Lo gazru al ksamim. This is not a kesem. Pshat, kesem is only something that you can attribute to macholos. This can't be attributed to macholos. This is not a kesem. Huh? Attribute means litlot, שזה מאכולת. Mashenkin, the Shach is saying, no, a kesem is any dam which is not regular d'Oraisa is a kesem. Any dam which is not d'Oraisa is a kesem. Now, is the mechayev of kesem because I can attribute it to a macholes? Not necessarily. The heter could be is that we contribute to macholes, but that's not the mechayev of the kesem. Okay, I'm going to repeat it again because I just said a beautiful vort. You understood what I said? Okay, so let me repeat it again. Pashtus, yesh machlokes, yatza migufa v'eino dam nidah because there's no hargashah. What's the din by ketanah? Mitzad sheini, we have a din, lo gazru, lo gazru ksamim. The din of ksamim is not shayach to ketanah. So the question is, do we look at this as ksamim, lo plug, right? So even though it's not mamash ksamim, but l'maaseh it's lo plug in ksamim, or do we say no, a kesem is a kesem; this is not a kesem. Omek ha-machlokes, kemen zogn. So, that's the last time chelkim, ten plug loi plug. Ze lo omek ha-machlokes. Omek ha-machlokes is, omek ha-machlokes is, what is a kesem? A kesem is something that you could attribute to macholos. So if I can't attribute it, it's not a kesem. This is vadai yatza mi-gufa, so this is not a kesem. It's dam. Dam d'Rabbanan. I dilma, kesem is anything which is not dam nidah, peirush, hargasha, flow, cycle, is kesem. Mimeila, this is not called a kesem, and this is not called a dam. This is called a kesem. It's a different thing. This is not dam. Anything which is not the dam nidah, this is a kesem. So, v'lo gazru k'samim. So where does machlokes come into the picture? So either pshat is machlokes is gorim kesem, or machlokes is the heter for a kesem. In other words, kesem is anything that I can attribute to macholos. Mashenkein if it's not attributable to macholos, it's not a kesem. Or the pshat is, there is, right, in ksamim there's a heter called a macholos. You know, you could come and say it might be a macholos, so that's all, finished. Okay. I hold that this is yesod ksamim. You'll soon see why I hold this is a yesod. Kol sugya shel ksamim munach b'nekudah זו. Okay. There's a halacha by a sechinah. Does a sechinah have ksamim? So look at the Pischei Teshuva, siman kuf tzadi gimmel, se'if katan beis. Go ahead, look at the Pischei Teshuva. שלח טובה. שחול לא פלוג. Even though it's not a kesem, it is a kesem. It's good enough. No, so it's like some. Therefore, kol shelo gazru on... lo gazru. Kuf tzadik alef, סעיף קטן ב'. Nu. Nu, go ahead, read. Who said by skenah you weren't gozer? Who said? It comes out that there's a machlokes if by skenah a gezeirah or not. Interesting machlokes. Notice that the Mechaber speaks about tinokes.

We never spoke about skeinah. L'maaseh, ktanah is a mesulekes damim, and a skeinah is a mesulekes damim. So, bishleima according to the shittos that say just like ketanah, so too skeinah. L'vah, k'mo zeh, mesulekes damim, gam zeh mesulekes. V'im matzinu, if we find a halacha of ksamim lo gazru by ketanah, ksamim lo gazru by skeinah. Unless you say, heim amru, aval po lo amru, stam kacha, bli sibah, you know, matzinu she'amru kacha v'lo matzinu. Lamah? Go knock your head in the wall. Fuck it, that lashon chabah, lamah? Lo chashu lamah, lo matzinu. That doesn't fit well. So what's the pshat? I would say like this. I once told you that a ketanah is a different mesulekes damim than a skeinah. A ketanah is a mesulekes damim, peirush she'ein lah dam. A skeinah is a different type of mesulekes damim. She's a mesulekes damim b'chezkas mesulekes damim. Od paam, ketanah, she's not supposed to see. A skeinah doesn't see. A skeinah doesn't see. Well, what's wrong? Last time we put both of them in one category. I did it. That's not true. By mineket, the Rebbe said this, what's his name? No, I clarified it. We would clarify all the shittos. We were clarifying by tinokes and skena. That's not true. We clarified there's tinokes like skena, like muberes. Muberes, right. Okay. I said l'maskana, I said by muberes, but could be the yesod of tinokes and skena is two different yesodos. You understand? She never saw. She never saw. A tinokes never saw. A skena always saw. Stopsi. So she's not stopping. She's seeing kesamim. What am I learning? I clarified, is kesamim dam nida b'shir shel kesamim, or is kesamim not called dam at all? When you look at a kesem, the pshat is you're looking at dam. She's mutar, because me'achash she's a lo dayraisa, dam heter. Az a kilu b'zeh, l'fi ha'excuse of machlokes. Oy, the pshat is, omrim, ma she'ani ro'eh zeh machlokes; ani lo ro'eh dam bichlal. If you learn that it's dam nida, so you can say, gevaldige vort: tinokes, like gazru al ksam. Why? She's not supposed to see. Mashenkein by a nida, by a skena. By a skena the pshat is, hifsikah lirot, so why lo hifsikah? Kanireh shelo hifsikah because she sees kesamim. You know, it's interesting, I was thinking to myself an interesting thing. You know, R' Moshe holds— That the ksamim in the beginning of the vest starts the vest. Why? Is it ksamim? Yeah, it's ksamim. Is she temeiah? She's not tamei. I'm not telling you you can live with her, because you might come and have a problem, but she's still not tamei. The ksamim, ksamim. It's not bigdei tzivonim, let's say. It's still not the shiur. And af al pi kein, you're toleh that that's the beginning of the vest, because ksam is a taich; it is dam. Nar is felt in the halacha, sefek. Why the pshat could be ksam is no pshat. According to this, and a Chanami, ksam might not have anything to do with the vest. Maybe not. Unless you say vest just means chashash, and the ksam can bring you the chashash also. When you look at a kesem, what do you see? You see dam nidah, or you see dam macholes? What do you see when you see the kesem? If the taich is you see dam nidah, so you could say by tinokes it's not shayach the whole thing. She's not a mesulekes dam; the pshat is she's muchzekes not to see. She doesn't see. Ktanah doesn't see.

Huh? We'll talk about that. We can discuss all this. I'm not holding it, and I want to do that in sefer with machlokes. I'm saying the pshat is, is it dam nidah? So the din by katan is different than by zaken. If you learn kesamim is a thing for itself, so ein hachanami, so every time she's not supposed to see. So why are you gozer? I mean, why is this mesulekes dam different than this mesulekes dam? But if you learn that every kesam is b'emes the tach, that is the dam, but we excuse it with machlokes, Chazal say you can be toleh machlokes, so then the lo gazru is for a different reason going. The lo gazru is because a katan is takanah not supposed to see, she'ein ken by gedolah, it's different mesulekes dam. Efshar. What do you say, Rafi? Ken, so svara. Okay. Okay, so here the nafka mina: if you learn kesam is a din for itself, it's a chiddush in machlokes. Ein hachanami, what's the difference? Let me say it a little different. Let me say it a little different. What is kesem? Is kesem a din for itself, l'tameh? Let's say the kesam is not dam nidah, unless shiurim. It's a thing for itself, and it could be the pshat is it shouldn't make a difference, like the lashon of the Rishonim, they shouldn't come to make a mistake, so they aser. Some seifim. You know, there's some seifim. The seifer says, why did they aser? Kesamim. What's the reason for the derabbanan? It shouldn't be a tumah. L'taharah she's tamei, l'baalah she's mutar. So kesamim is a taich; it says nothing to do with dam nidah. It's just a gezeirah. What? It's a gezeirah for taharah; it's an aya sugya, kesam. So if they were lo gazru by tinokes, it's lo gazru by nesiah also not. We're saying it's a tumah and sveikah. But if the taich is that they were gozer, pshat is they furthered the cycle to less also, so then it could be you could say by an isha that has no shaychus to dam, so there's no kesam. A isha has no shaychus to dam; you can't say she doesn't have shaychus to dam. So meileh it's different halachos. Efshar. Okay, what do I want with this introduction? I want to do seif hei now. Let's jump to seif hei. Lo gazru al hakeses. They weren't gozer on the keses. El im kein, el im kein, yesh boi kegris v'oid. Unless it has kegris v'oid. Now what is pshat in keses? So there's a sidrei taharah in seif katan aleph that says, keses? Yeah, keses. Lo gazru al hakeses. They weren't gozer on the keses. But, ober, if you have dam, v'loy hargashah, she'll be tamei midrabbanan afilu b'chol shehu. You saw the Sidrei Taharah? You know about it? So what do you mean, dam and kesem? What's the difference between dam and kesem? Dam b'cholshu and kesem, which is not b'cholshu. It's the same thing. No, what's a kesem? Kesem is not dam. What is it? It's orange juice. What is kesem exactly? You ask the kasha that way? When it's dam, then it's dam nidah in small portions. When it's kesem, you're not even sure what it is. I mean, the kesem is the taich of something which could be attributed to something else. Kesem, you don't know what it is. It could be a machlokes. You're not even sure what a kesem is. It's a whole new sugya, kesem. What's machlokes? It's dam. See, you see that has nothing to do with the measurements. You see, it has to do with where it originates from. Something which originates from the mekor, that's nidah in small number, in small quantity.

Mashe'ein kein. Stain, a stain could be anything. A stain could be from something. So there's nida, and there's stain. So you see right away that the svara that I was telling you is black. You see from the Sidrei Taharah, klor, klor, barur. Sheyesh inyan shel ketem. It's something unique. It's not pshat it's dam nida sheloy b'hargashah u'b'shiur mu'at. It's not what it is. It's something which could be not even dam nida. We don't know what it is. Milsa d'stavra. Toras Hashlamim, kuf pei gimel, se'if katan aleph, argues and says no. Mamash dam also is a ketem and has the sugya of kegris. Why? Because he learned, l'cha'orah, that the pshat... Let's see who... Okay, yeah. You saw this? You saw this inside? Go ahead, read it, read it, read it. It's in kuf pei gimel, se'if katan aleph, Toras Hashlamim. Agash. Without agash, it's not nigei because that's din kesef. That's din kesef. Meirai v'rabeisai, what is the Torah's shleimus learning? And by the way, it's a milsa d'stabra also, that ksamim is dam. It's just quantities, that's all it is. It's a question of quantities of dam. So this is the yesod that I see in Tzav. Even ksamim is davar chadash. It's a new thing. It's an entirely new thing. We don't even know what it is. Yachol yotzes zeh dam, yachol yotzes zeh macholes, lo yad'inan ma zeh. So when we're toleh b'macholes, omrim shezeh bichlal lo dam. Well, the pshat is, it's dam. So what does kgris have to do with anything? If you know it's dam, you know it's ba min hamakor, what are you talking about? And the teretz is, because there's such a thing as a macholes. Like I said, the reason why we're toleh by ketem like that is because it's on the beged. That's the only reason. Because it's on the beged. That's why we're toleh in macholes. By dam from— but it's on the beged, so there's a plia to macholes. But if it's on a guf— Why not? There's more tzadim to say that, understand, but there are more tzadim to say that it's dam nidah. Why should you say that? Because ketem is usually found on the beged. Ketem— no, for sure it's dam. So how can there be a heter of kgris? I mean, that's a peledige zach, the Torah's shleimus is saying. You know it's dam. ... What are you— ... kgris? ... macholes. ... but you know what it is. Is Rebbe talking about a ketem or regular dam? Right, what's called a ketem? Even dam sheloi bargasha, so you know what it is, you know where it came from. What do you mean? And af al pi kein tolin b'kigris. How can you be toleh b'kigris? For what? It's an imaginary halacha. It's mamash a... it's a weird halacha. You know what? It's in the Cinderella world. You know what's in the Cinderella world, eichonim? It's a fantasia, fantasia. Oh, what? Bami mehachulas. Chulas. You know that's not bami mehachulas. Tagid she'sa bami mehachulas. Okay. Rabosai, let me tell you what I think the pshat is. אבל הרי כל אדם הוא בדרבונון. דרבונון גם מחליטים ש... שמחליטים שתולין. הרבונון החליטו שמה שזה שחור זה באמת לבן. הם החליטו למה שיכול להיות שזה בא מכלב. מה זה שייך פה כלב? You see, ... זה ממש... You see, dam שבא ממנו, תולין שזה בא ממחולות, because the Rabbonon אמרו. Rabbonon לא היו משוגעים, הם היו נורמלים, no? נגיד שזה דרבוני, אבל גם דרבונון צריך להיות על בסיס, no?

Because shemachmiru, as a ma'asu gam kulei bachure. They're not... It's mutar. Don't tell them machulit. תגיד שזה מותר, and finish. תגיד, אני יודע מאיפה זה בא, וכל זאת. כי griss is only machulit. The whole thing about griss is machulit, so what are you talking about? אז בוא נעיין, מה זה machulit? Ha-machulit הזה זכה. איזה זכות, you know. שכל מסכת נידה, כל היתרים של האישה תלוי על המחלוקת. So let's see, who is Mr. Machulit? Who is it? מי זה המחלוקת שזכה להיות הבסיס של היתר...? הקושיה ידוע. הרי היום אין מחלוקת, אין כזה דבר. גם שתדע, you should know that כבר חוזר קצת. What is it in English? How do you say? מחלוקת is bed bugs. Bed bugs. And I want you to know, you know why there was no bed bugs? By the World War II, now they came back. They said they made a whole thing. I heard on the news that the tiny bed bugs came back. Okay, so let's start again. What happened was that when they made the beds years ago, in the '40s, '50s, they sprayed it, and shenever bed bugs, so they killed it out. They got rid of the whole bed bug business. But they tell me it's coming back. I know somebody... has bed bugs. His wife? Oh, real bugs you're talking. Okay. Bed bugs could be a wife and then family, you know, they kill me, bed bugs. Okay, now. They have it in the... whatever. Okay. B'kitzur, aval nagi'a she'ein, az ulai k'she'ein, az kol halachazak batel, no? Ve'ein chashash shema yachzor. We want to be matir, right? Lo chosheshim l'zeh, matirin b'klal zeh, right? Aval l'maaseh, yesh chashash l'hatir. Yesh gezeirah. There's always sometimes a gezeirah, shema, you know, yachzor l'kilkulo, by the Yom Tov Sheini shel Galuyos. So maybe here too, shema yachzor. It doesn't make sense over here. Okay, you want to be matir it. Don't be matir if there's no machlokes. This is a kashya yedua. Another question. Tell me, you know how big a congress is? Let's say the size of a nickel. That's pretty big. That's pretty big. Today, if you find a machlokes that big, you better call quickly the exterminators that should come with the big masks with the guns. Machlokes are very small, just like niskatnu haanashim, niskatnu hamachlokes, right? Niskatnu hadoros. Im kein, sho'ela chasam sofer, az ma kol ha'inyan shel hamachlokes? It's a bilbul, it's a fantasy. What, אין מחלוקת. Afilu ki yesh, אז קטנים, small little bugs. They're tiny. How could you be toleh b'machlokes? Oy, machsam sofer, chiddush. Eh! Kol hamachlokes is stam sippur shel Bavel ma'ases. Ha'ikar halacha zeh rak gazru biglal sheshetumah tahorah sheyehei temeiah l'inyan taharis az hi yehei temeiah l'inyan baalah. Az b'seder, az lachen shelo yehei stirah, yecholim la'asot et hagezeirah kemo shehayah. What? There's no real gezeirah b'machlokes. It's really, you really think it's a machlokes? What, are you crazy? That's machlokes. You belong in Lala land if you think that it's a machlokes. A woman comes and she brings you underwear — machlokes? You know of machlokes? What are you talking about? Aval hayah pam inyan shel machlokes. Hamachlokes, zeh davar shel hayah, u'maspik lakachat et hashiur shel hayah, biglal shekol hagezeirah zeh lo be'emet. I saw the Ireim in siman chav-vav. Be'emet, anachnu nami niskatna hamachlokes, niskatna hashiur. Let me be honest with you, if the whole thing is based...

Machlokes, smola machlokes, smola shiur. Shas teshuvos Rav Pe'alim, chelek alef, siman lamed-vav. Go ahead, go look it up. It says a chiddush, chiddush. Smola shiurim today, that's it. Im ha-machlokes kacha, azel. Aza ketem ze kach. It's not here. The Chera Pe'alim finished, they took it away. Chelek alef, siman lamed-vav. Lamed-vav, siman lamed-vav. Go ahead. What does he pasken, smaller ketem or bigger ketem? Go look it up yourself, lamed-vav. Yeah. Oh, that's why. Kamashma lan the right thing. Oh, here it is. Lachein l'inyan halachah... Lachein l'inyan halachah... Did you know this? Did you know that according to the Bagdadim, according to the Ben Ish Chainiks, the Ben Ish Chai... The ketem is a tiny little thing today. Ooh, it's dangerous stuff. Nobody knows this. Of course, you know Rav Ely makes from it. You saw that, because he says, Chumra ati lidei kula. You saw that? You saw it inside. But you knew this, Rav Palim? You knew this? Oh. Ben ish chai, Rav Palim. He says, he says, Af echad lo yodea mi zeh. Even this guy, this guy knows kol haTorah kula. They know kol haTorah kula. Ata yadata? Ata yadata kvod haRav. Lefi shitas haYereim, Rav Palim holech k'shita zu, shema shemitkaten hamachlokes, az mitkaten hashiur. So, כדי לחוש לדבריו. Okay, now, hameikel, hameikel, hameikel. Why not? Let's say kach. Hamachlokes hitkaten. Does the Yerayim mean kulam, they're all like that? Or hamachlokes meant shayach, they're not as big as they were. It's possible to find a big one too. מה להתכוון? HaYereim מתכוון, כולם ככה, אז אין במה לתלות? Or the pshat is, here Eliyahzer, the machlokes, most of them, some of them. It's possible they're bigger, it's possible they're smaller, but it's possible it's takke big also. You know what I think the shaila is? How serious is machlokes? Is macholet a real kli, that this must be this, or vacholet became a shiur? According to the Chasam Sofer, macholet is just a shiur, that's all it is. Macholet isn't the name of a kli. You don't need the bug, what you need is the shiur. It's a shiur. Macholet is a shiur, that's all it is. I understand that the macholet is the yesod of shiur kegris. We're going to soon learn in the Shulchan Aruch, what happens if the gris is bigger? What happens if the beans get bigger? We're learning the bugs are getting smaller and the beans are getting bigger. You walk into Chassidish chunt, the beans are the size of a bumbas. So what is a gris? A gris could be maybe jumbo beans. What do they call that? Lima beans. What gris? What bean is the gris? You know bean is the gris? Shulchan Aruch says that in case she has a bean which is big, it's okay. We're learning the next halacha, nu. Veshiur hagris hu...

V'teisa dosha. V'shira dosha, k'daled tzayrus. Mathematics, okay? Here. V'im nizdamen lo gris yoser gadol mizeh, mesharin bo. In case she finds a gris which is bigger—you saw this din in Shulchan Aruch—in case she finds a gris which is bigger, mesharin bo. What does that have to do with her? I don't understand. This is a metzius. Bugs or not bugs. Gris bean. One bean? I don't know. Bean. Gris is a bean. Gris bean. So if she finds a bigger gris, she could be meshayer. What is a game we're playing over here? It's a ... no? You thought of this? You thought of this question? Like purely play. What kind of a game? ... In case she finds—I saw the poskim clarify a shaila—what happens if she finds such a bean? Could the rav pasken bigger because of the bean she found? Or it's only the chi, because it says mesharin bo. It doesn't say that chi. It says we. It doesn't say he ... So now she set the shiur. So one lady has a smaller shiur, and another lady has a bigger shiur. Why? She has big—because she found the bigger bean, so she has bigger bugs. I don't understand the story. Hafla fela, hafla fela. You hear? Rafi, ... She found it. Can you imagine? The Rav comes and says, This, this is not — this is too big. All of a sudden, she comes out and she takes out a big thing from her wallet and she goes, I have the super bean. I bought it in India. Whoa. Now that you have the super bean, your shiur is different. What do you mean? The machlokes is different. It's the same machlokes. Didn't change. Let's go weiter. There's a gevaldige Tosafos in Niddah daf nun beis amud beis. Tosafos, Niddah nun beis amud beis. Ein derech shel isha lihyos ro'ah pachos mikigris. Very interesting. You saw this Tosafos? Look it up. Niddah nun beis amud beis. Because I hold this is where it comes from. This is the yesod of some. There's no re'iyah which is pachos mikigris. What size is? It's mamash what I was talking about. Are we discussing that it's not a re'iyah? Or the pshat is it's kigris, pachos mikigris, it's a machlokes. What's the nidon of the sugya? Go ahead, read the Tosafos. Niddah nun beis amud beis. Ein derech shel isha...

By gris, it's in this toast. He doesn't use those words. You see, shalish grisin, trei yoyin, parti palgi chazisa, v'idach dam macholisu. There's no real which is pachos mikikris testes. He makes the cheshbon, that's why the other half has to be okay. Macholis is a tliya, or macholis is because you know it's not dam. How does macholis work? Macholis works because we know that it's half through toleles in the macholis, or the pshat, since it's half, we know it's not dam nidah anyway. The excuse will be macholis. Is macholis a tliya, or is macholis the excuse to be matir it? No, it's not. Macholis means that since we see this shiur, we'll say, you know what, it's probably a macholis. Or we don't care to say what a problem is; it's irrelevant. Since it's possible to be a macholis. Since it wasn't a hargasha, so the macholis, the tzad that there could be a macholis makes it a safek, and it's a safek d'rabbanan, so you're meikil. How do you know for sure? That's the beginning, sidrei taharah. I'm trying to show you that it's possible to say kesem even when you know where it comes from. Let's say you get a bedikah and you know you didn't go. That's a big chokhmah. If you say that you could be toleh, but then you can't. If you taka know, you can't. But if you say that we don't care, we don't care. Kesem is, it's not the dam nidah. That's what kesem is. You want to know what Chazal said? Since it's possible to be, when it's not, when it's this shiur, it's possible to be a machloikes, so כאילו that helps me shelo gazru. It's just to help me to come and say, however, they'll get mixed up. They'll get mixed up and say, letumah, letaharah, l'ba'al, muteres. But this is not dam nidah; this is machloikes. So machloikes is another type of nidah dam. ... So, ... the pshat to emporia, as mah machloikes. Im erias tagid, mutar, u'mah tzarich machloikes? Machloikes is only shebiglal sheshayach ksamim litlot b'machloikes, as ein makom l'ta'us, בין קסם לדם נידה, בין קסם פסיק מגריס לדם נידה. Aval tzerichim mamash litlot shezeh kesem, shezeh machloikes lo tzarich. Im hakavanah shezeh safek d'Rabbanan, v'yesh machloikes shecholin litlot b'zeh, hatzarich lihyot tliyah b'emes, lo tzarich stam fantazia, o ken o lo, ma zeh stam, stam tzchokos. But if the taich is that b'emes it's mutar anyway, the pshat is the Chazal came and said what shiur, because that shiur people could come and say is b'machloikes. That's a shiur which is tolui b'machloikes. So therefore, it doesn't have the shem, oh, people, she saw bleeding and she's mutar. Even if the badam is coming out from her, and she sees it from her. So even if it comes out from her, it would be mutar, because you don't need the klia mamash. You need the shiur. The shiur is the machlokes. Machlokes isn't the klia; it's not the history. It doesn't make a difference. That's Chasam Sofer's mechadesh, since in the olden days there was, so people know ksam is not nidah. They know ksam is not nidah. I'll tell you a chiddush that goes through my mind. You know, let's say you have a kesem. It's on white and it's big. Litfosh hapoiskim are very machmir. Chassidisha makeil, I'll tell you what they makeil. It has to be strong red, otherwise it's nothing. This comes to the Divrei Chaim. Divrei Chaim, the Debretziner used to pasken.

It's a famous, the mesorah of the Chassidish is that way. As long as it's not strong red, it's nothing. Meaning, on a bedikah, the same colors would be no good. But on a kesem, not pachos, kashir; on white, it's good. And I never understood why. I never understood why. I understood why, but I thought about it. You know what the taich is? If you learn kesem as nidah, just the only thing is it doesn't have the shiurim, and it's a special din when it's on tzvoyim, whatever the cheshbonos are, right? So whatever the dam is, that's the dam. But if you learn kesem is not nidah, but the chacham were gozer, kedei shelo — it shouldn't be like the Chasam Sofer says, a chiluk between the taharis and nidah — so the minute it's not the same dam, you don't have the gezeirah. The minute it's not borur, and you could right away say it doesn't look like regular dam, then it's mutar. Where does the chiluk make — what do you make on it? Chacham were meikel. But where does the colors come? Where does the chiluk in colors? If you have a safek in shiur, so you can come and say safek d'rabbanan l'kula, but you don't have a safek in the shiur. The shiur is there; it's on white clothing, everything is there. What's the difference? The teretz is because it's not nira k'mamash klor k'dam, so it's not nichlal in the takanah. ... Lo shayach l'mashal. Lo shayach l'mashal. I didn't say. ממש ברור לו, להדיא אמרתי להפך. החכמים גזרו מה שאדם יכול לחשוב, אה, הרי נראה אדם. ואם הדם לא נראה כמו דם רגיל, it's shades of blood, it's black, so then the pshat is, it's not dam machil b'dam zeh ledam zeh. So blood, black is kosher? If it's colored black? In maris, yeah. In maris of ksamim, yeah. There's two blacks, but we'll get to it later. It has to be red, you know. Anything which is questionable, they right away say is mutar. And it's not because it's a safek; that's not where it comes from. Because the same colors, you know for sure asur by... I watch... by bedikah. The same colors which would be asur by bedikah is mutar by ksamim. Litvish don't hold like that. They don't know what you're talking about. The Chassidish all do this, all. I saw... the Debretziner does, they all do it. They all do it. I saw, I saw my own. And he told me, he told me clearly, he said, My father said it has to be strong red, otherwise there's no... If you're Litvish, can you make it like Chassidish? I don't know. We'll discuss that later. Come now. So now, lefizeh, יש לנו שתי שבילים, איך להבין תמים. או כתם is dam nidah, רק שלא הרגישהו בשפה. Is a ketem a ma'acholet בכלל? זה שייך, חציצת. מה זה מאכולת? או מאכולת is הההבש של הכתם, or ma'acholet is, מאחר שיש מאכולת. U'ma'acholet yachol לעשות, ma'achol could make a ketem. So even over here, not necessarily has to be ma'acholet, but it's a ketem. You see? What is ketem? Is ketem something which is יכולים לתלות במאכולת? Or is ketem—ketem, not do with ma'acholet. Ketem is a ketem. מה שיש על הכתם, מאחר שיש סוג של מאכולת, חכמים קראו את השיער של מאכולת. Okay, good? Okay. What would happen if she found a kegris on a bedikah by an eid she'eino baduk? Eid she'eino baduk. So you can't come and say it's asur, right? Because eid she'eino baduk doesn't aser. It's not a bedikah. So it's not asur because it's eid she'eino baduk, but it has a din of a ketem. So on that ketem—

Heter is the sugya is called kigris. So that same Chasam Sofer says, no. In such a case, we'll come and say that it's taka asur. The heter that I came and said with kigris and everything, that will say only on a nimtza, that it found on a clothing. But on a bedikah, on an eino baduk, then it remains asur. What's the nafka mina? Why should it be that way? What's the nafka mina? Eino baduk, anything that's found is drabbanan; it's a kesem, it's not a de'oraisa. Says the Chasam Sofer, so what happens if it's less than a kigris, right? You went and you checked. You went and you checked with an eino baduk, so therefore it's not de'oraisa anymore, because it's eino baduk. But it has a din derabbanan; it has the din of a kesem. So on that kesem, is it machlokes or not machlokes? Chasam Sofer says, here I'll tell you like this: you'll have the heter of machlokes, but you won't have the heter of machlokes with the shiur of the chachamim, like I said that you could go, but it has to have the heter of the shiur machlokes b'zman hazeh. And I guess he means to say is, lu yitzu, there is no machlokes, you wouldn't even have a heter at all. What's he saying? Then the taich becomes that it becomes a real kli in the machlokes. When it's a real kli in the machlokes, why? Let's hear the vort. You're talking about a case where you went in and you came out, so you zeiche where it came from. So there, the only way out of that would be is with a real clear machlokes. Ah, you're gonna ask a kasha. Ah, you're gonna ask a kasha, it's that makom is baduk linyan machlokes. We'll get to talk about that now. Yeah, but it has the din of a ketem, though. It has the din of a ketem, right? But I'm saying, but it has the din of a ketem. No, it doesn't have the din of a nimtza ketem. So when it's not a nimtza ketem, so you want to be toleh, there you have to have real clear. That's the real din. Where you have the real deal of the real din of tliya, then it's lefi the shiur of the zman. Where you don't have a din tliya, it's just a shiur, then it takes on the shiur machlokes of the zman. Okay. Let's say a husband wants to be machmir. It's kigris, pachos mikigris, right? He wants to be machmir. Okay. So there's a Chayei Adam, right? You have the Shevet HaLevi. Who does he quote? I thought he quoted Chayei Adam. Shevet HaLevi, the husband wants to be machmir. No? Okay. So Shevet HaLevi says that if, let's say, the husband wants to be machmir, and, v'yesh listapek im shelo lehachmir b'chol shu. Hilchos ketanos, asur, asur lehachmir. V'im isha tachmir b'pachos mikigris, mochin b'yadah. היינו, דשייך להחמיר רק במה שיש מקום להחמיר, אבל לא בדברים שנתפשט בחזל להיתר, ואין עלה לדון. וכן, מה שכתב שלחן ערוך בסוף. Okay, so בקיצור, he brings a whole thing over here that you're not allowed to be machmir. Now, וכמו שכתב פתחי תשובה. Okay, he says you can be machmir עד השיעור הקטן של כגריס. In other words, if you want to be machmir with the shiur הקטן, the היינו the— okay. אך, ומה שוודאי אין להחמיר, ממה שוודאי מותר אין להחמיר. Then he says like this. מקום מקום.

כל שהוא נראה דם ממש, אלא שפחות, כגון כשיר מחולות שלנו, טוב שתיבדק עצמה. I thought I saw here that you can be machmir. How come I wrote down—what I wrote here—that you can be machmir? סעיף קטן ה'. Maybe he writes in סעיף קטן ה'. Okay. Oh, I did see here. ועוד נראה, בכסם שנראה כדם חי, which looks like blood, דם חי, the tari and fresh. Remember I told you that that's real ksam, you know, that's—okay. דאף על פי שפחות מכגריס, מיקרי דם טהור, אך אי אפשר להקל, כיון שנראה כדם, כל שכן ריחו כשל דם נידה. It smells like dam niddah. Not so poshut, yes. Whole tumah. Does it mean literal? Smell. Okay, yeah. וגם לא שכיח מחולות בזמננו, ובעל נפש מחמיר בזה. But then that's good. But דם יבש, ספק, מר, טוב, that, that, that, therefore you shouldn't be machmir. Okay, so it comes out that if you want to be machmir, fresh blood, פחות מכגריס, you're allowed. Yeah? You're allowed. You look at Rav Avadi, you saw what he writes about it? No, מותר, מותר, מותר, and not מסתפק. דם טהור, פחות מכגריס, אין מה להסתפק. What do they want? I'll tell you, this is what they want. You know what they want? Dam chayiv Torah is ein litlois b'machlokes. Period. There's nothing what to talk about. U'me'achar shekein, yes heter. Yes heter. Chachamim nasnu shiur; heim amru v'heim amru. Aval b'chol zeh yesh makom l'hachmir. Aval im hapshat hu pachos mikigris is not bichlal dam niddah, what are you machmir on? What? You'll be machmir that in case she sees what? In case she blows her nose, you're going to be machmir on dam niddah? What do you want? It's not dam niddah. Im hapshat hu it's dam niddah, but there's heter. The heter is the shiurim. Im ksamim is dam niddah b'heter shel shiurim, it's kulo l'hachmir. What? Again, again, I'm saying like this: if you know for sure it's dam, so then what's the heter? Why is it mutar? No, first, why is it mutar? But you can't be toleh. You know for sure what it is. What do you mean? It's dam tahor. Let's start again. Let's start again. Kesem shenir'eh k'dam chai, af al pi she'amaru d'me'ikar hadin tahor, ach— Why is it tahor? He says, ach, because me'ikar hadin that was the chachamim's takanah. Because the chachamim came and gave a shiur. That's it. It lacked the shiur. It doesn't have the shiur. No, because you can't be toleh. The story is that you can't be toleh b'machlokes. Kivan shenirah kedamnida, kol shekein shereicha k'shel dam nidah, v'gam lo shichich machol b'zmaneinu, which means there's nothing to be toleh on. That's what the Chacham said. Heim amru v'heim amru. So then it's shiurim in dam nidah. That's it. You just didn't have the shiur. Chacham said, chaseva bashiur. Tachmir. Mah she'ein kein, where they came and they said. But if you learn that the pshat is that heim lo amru she'sa dam nidah bheter. Heim amru she'sa bichlal lo, ein niya pachos mikigris. And it's all gezeirah because of nidah with ta'iris l'baalus. What are you guys—Chacham said not to be. There's no gezeirah. What are you guys exact? Chacham said not to be gezeiros in such a case. What, you make your own gezeiros now? If the pshat is they get a kula in dam nidah— What's the kula? Shiur. Doesn't have the shiur. And the other side is what? Also. No, the other side is that it's not dam nidah at all, but they made a gezeirah. Same side. No, it's not. Different side. You were saying the entire shiur, there's two ways. Shvilei. There's two shvilei. Either because you mamash betoleh in something in metzius, or because they just never spoke about that, so even though they called it macholes, don't worry about it. It's nothing to do with anything. Right. Now, and explain what's the taich of the shiur of macholes. It's not three, it's the yesod of one and two. The yesod of one and two is—

Based on the original gezeirah, what was the original gezeirah? Is the original gezeirah that kesem is dam nidah? That was the Tosafos I brought you. Ein re'iyah pachsah mikigris. There's no such thing. It begins with nothing and therefore it ends with the chamsaif. When it begins with nothing, then it ends with the chamsaif. It's only ta'irus, tumah. Tumah, you shouldn't make a mistake. So if you shouldn't make a mistake, so you can make your own gezeiros now? What's your making gezeiros for? Ella, mai d'pshat is, the chachamim—it's a... I don't want to be toleh. I don't want to be... I don't want to be... I don't want to be machmir. I don't want to be scared. I want to be afraid. I'm a guy that thinks, you know something, I don't like machloikes. So to me it's not a good heter. Okay, so we're saying the same thing. Now, what happens if the way the mar'eh looks, it's impossible to say it's a machloikes? It's impossible. You know when the case is, there's a mar'eh, the entire underwear is full of everything. Most of it looks dam, which is not dam, meaning it's tar dikah color. And part of it around it, whatever it is, but you know for sure now where it came from, yeah? So the Milchemes says that you could still be toleh, even though the kesem itself is screaming what it is. It's not a machloikes. Haketem zeh maneh, it's lo machloikes. Chelek, he says, is dam. So you see where it came from. If it's full of secretion and everything, and then there's dam in it, on it, on top of it, so you know for sure it's not machloikes. What are you talking about? Says the Milchemes, af al pi kein it's tahor. Af al pi... the Chavas Daas. What are you talking about? Understand, it says clearly it's not a machlokes. You're reading a ketam, right? And the ketam is telling you it's not a machlokes, so what are you talking about? Hesber machlokes. This is the hesber machlokes. If you learn that you need a tliya taka, so the Chavas Daas is saying it's telling me that it's not that way. How could you tell me something that it's not? But if you learn that since tamim mishayech to be machlokes, the chachamim matiru, the chachamim will matir. So the question becomes, maybe it's mutar even if you know for sure it's not a machlokes. That's the machlokes. Huh? I don't think—you have to go so far. It has to do less than the Chasam Sofer. Pashut. If you learn that machlokes is the tliya, there's no tliya. If you learn machlokes is the taich, it's the shiur, it doesn't have the shiur geder. Okay. Now, Reb Akiva Eiger, it's not a third way. You know what it is? There's two ways how to learn. There's Chasam Sofer, which is nothing. There's a stam gezeirah l'ba'alah, there's no shaychus. And then there's dam nidah, and what's the taich? Either the pshat is we're toleh, or the pshat is we don't have to be toleh. The chachamim l'chatchila gave the issur with that shiur, and that's all finished. Okay, it works out. Okay, let's— I just don't see how that third thing that Rabbi said is different. Okay. Now, it doesn't have to be different, but I'm saying it's possible to learn even in dam nidah the two ways. Okay. Now, Reb Akiva Eiger, in sif katan pei, over here in the siman, he brings from the Ra'avad, davka adom is mutar. Black. It's not going to be mutar in kesamim. In other words, we can't come and say less than a kigris is a machlokes and only if it's red. But if it's black, you can't say it. Why? Because yetushim don't make black blood. The color of their blood is red. L'maaseh, the poskim don't bring it down. The poskim don't bring it down. Chiluk. Same chiluk. Poskim don't bring it down. L'maaseh, the poskim don't bring it down. I want to taina a vaiter it's the same chiluk. You hear? Tell me, you saw b'kiveiger, you saw the ra'avad. You'll do it today by second seder, you'll do it. The ra'avad says red, yeah; black, no. What's the hesber? The hesber is this hesber. If the taich is that you need mamash a real tliyah, the black is telling me that it's not yetushim. So what are you talking about? It's not these machlokes. Mashenkein if you learn it's just a shiur because it's shayach kesam to machlokes, so once it's a din kesem, I don't care that this kesem can't be from a machlokes. It's not nogeia. This is the machlokes haposkim. Okay. The Pischei Teshuva brings l'maaseh a chiddush. Okay, sif katan tes. Read the Pischei Teshuva in sif katan tes. Yeah, good, good. Yafeh meod, huh? Pischei Teshuva, sif katan tes. Yeah, it's very long. Okay, so let me tell you over what the Pischei Teshuva says. Okay. Pischei Teshuva says, what happens...

If it's a very fat kesem, it's thick, it's a thick kesem, yeah? But the shiur is not kigris. What's the halacha? Ova, kesem ova. Aval einoi the shiur, the measurement to kigris. Okay. Tell me something. You know for sure that it's not from macholis, right? Macholis can't make that much dam, right? It's not that much dam. Okay. What about safel? It goes deep inside the clothing. It's a heavy, it's a, right? It's, what do you call that? It's a lot of layers of clothing. They have over there sometimes a few layers, right? So it's, you know for sure, vadai it's hamacholis. What's the halacha? He brings a she'eilah. He's done. He brings the... ... she'ba lefanai. What is it, a trick? I don't understand. You see it's not a macholis. No? It doesn't have the shiur. There's a shiur. ... Now, I told you over, what happens if it's nizdamen, nizdamen, right? Nizdamen, she finds a bigger gris. She found the bigger one. So let's see the Taz, no? So the Taz says, what's the hesber? The gris says the Taz pshat. Well, how does that work, yeah? Yeah, so what it says, the Taz, what? Ah, says the Taz because maybe she found the bigger gris. Maybe she found the bigger watcher. So what are you talking about? Do you know what he's talking about? She found the bigger thing, so maybe, maybe, maybe, and what? So I was thinking the absolute pshat is that the Eibishter runs the world. That why would she find such a thing today? Why would she find such a big bean? And the teretz is the Eibishter wanted her to know, by the way, this is a big kinah. It's efshar. Well, maybe she found that she was me'orer her. Do you understand what it means? Because she found the bigger being, the meila means that it was a bigger kinyan. That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. If you found the gris, that's the gris, that's all, that's the shiur. Now you can tell her the shiur, the shiur is this, that's all. As long as you can say it's this shiur, then it's that shiur. Last and final thing. What happens if it's beged hatzamid legufo? So tell me, where are the machlokes coming from? So Chazon Ish, siman pei tes, se'if katan daled, says, what? Doesn't make a difference. It's toireh. Ah, you can't say that it wasn't there, right? So be'emes, the Sederi Torah in se'if katan nun zayin says it's possible. Can't shayach machlokes. I don't know, got in there, I don't know, got in there. Okay, says it got in there. Chazon Ish says, I don't care. I don't care, tzamid legufo. It's tight. I've got it. Possible to get in, all right? You saw the Sederi Torah, se'if katan nun zayin. Chazon Ish is saying, I don't care if it—there's a real kli, right? Since lemaaseh the shiur is not there, so the shiur is not there. This is haschalah, the beginning that I want to start with. ... mitzvah shelo nimshach on Thursday. Okay. Oh, he's a famous person. He's the—what? Oh, he does the Yemenite Yisroel.