Hilchos Niddah: Kesamim on Non-Tumah-Receiving Surfaces and Colored Garments

Transcript

We learned last three sugyot: ketem al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, says, lo mekabel tumah; haplachen ha'isha lo temeah, right? And also the din of bigdei tzevoinim tahor. Achshav kacha. We started last week to discuss the Shulchan Aruch. I want to repeat over the diyukim. The diyukim — it's chazak, you have to be bechazak, you have to be strong. So I want to discuss over the diyukim hayotzim from the Shulchan Aruch. Sif yud: kesem shenimtza. Now why do I say nimtza? Because we're going to discuss what's called nimtza. Where is it, nimtza? Nimtza lecha, nimtza al... What makes something nimtza? Nimtza is metziuti. Nimtza zeh matzata, re'ah, that you saw it. You know, the word nimtza has many definitions. Nimtza zeh nimtza lecha, nimtza zeh metziuti, nimtza eifo — where is it, right? Nimtza can mean two things. Od nireh shezeh inyan me'od bachutz, something very important to define, lagdir: ma kavanah nimtza. Al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. לא גזרו. אבל זה לא גזרו חכמים, דייקנו, שלא כתוב טהרה, אלא כתוב לא גזרו. ושאלנו, הרי בבגד צבוע, שם כתוב טהרה. אז למה מרן לא נאמר פעמיים? לא גזרו, לא גזרו, או טהרה, טהרה. אז הוא מדייק, זה לא ממש אותו הלכה. גם מצד שני, הוא מדמה את זה, הוא compares the two הלכות. הוא לא עושה איזה שתי סעיפים, הוא לא עושה שני סעיפים. הוא צריך להיות סעיף א', כסם שנמצא, ואז סעיף ב', כסם שנמצא על בגד צבוע. יותר מכגריס ופחות מכגריס, זה לא בהלכה. אז אתה רואה שאבviously, obviously, it's דומה, וכן, אבל בנוסח איך זה אסור, איך זה טמא, זה לא באותו נוסח. פה לא גזרו, ופה טהורה. בעזרת השם יש בו דייקנו יפה מאוד, יפה מאוד. זה מדויק, זה מה שכתוב פה. אז מה הציור? בוא, קא קא עולם. קא קא עולם זה גמרא. זהו הנוסח של הגמרא, קא קא עולם. השאלה היא, למה לוקח לדוגמה קא קא עולם? כל דבר שיש על דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה, תביא לי עוד ציורים, תביא לי ציור של בגדים. What about b'kadimut? I got stuck. But, bachronim yesh reshima. There's a whole reshima. What's the other kabbal tumah? What's the other kabbal tumah? So tell me. So, o yecholim lagid, she'nakat lashon shel haGemara. HaGemara dibrah. The Gemara speaks about this case, dugma zu. Az ulay lachen hu nakat. Maybe that's the reason, because that's the case of the Gemara. O yecholim lagid, she'be'emet kol habgadim she'einam mekablim tumah sheyesh lanu hayom, ulai lo hayah lahem az. Maybe it wasn't so shachiach. Maybe it wasn't so, you know. Today we have, you know, all different manufactured clothing here. Az hayah tachtonim zeh. I mean, what was there already? I'm saying, kol... so this is the shchiachdike case also, maybe. Maybe. O yecholim lagid, o yecholim lagid, she'be'ikar ha'tziur hayta, tziur shel yeshiva al gabei karka. That was the case. The case was yoshev al karka, botko karka olam.

ואחר כך אמרו שכל מה שדומה לקרקע עולם, בגלל שתיקנו קרקע עולם אינה מטמאה, בגלל שזה, איך אומרים את זה, it's not the mekabel tumah. לכן נכלל בזה כל דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. פירוש, the heter that they gave to קרקע עולם is davar she'eino mekabel tumah. But the original takanah was on קרקע עולם. עוד פעם. ... מדייקים, you hear, this is very important. Listen carefully, you're missing out very important yesod. I'm telling you, you're missing. רישא קא, what's nimtza, כסף שנמצא, but that's not a deal. That we're going to have to discuss, because it's not so clear what nimtza means. ולא פירשו מה קאמר הנא בנמצא. נמצא על או נמצא לי? מה הכוונה נמצא? Okay. על דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. So why does it say לגזול? Either say טמא, טהורה, like you said by beged צבוע. Okay, צד. בגד קרקע עולם. תגיד, עוד דמיון, עוד ציור. מה הציור? עוד ציור של בגדים שאינם מקבלים טומאה. היכא למיגד שהשולחן ערוך נקט לשון הגמרא. הגמרא דיברה על ציור זה, לכן נקט השולחן ערוך. היכא למיגד שהציורים לא כל כך שכיח בימיםיהם. What, this? This, a pants, a synthetic, nylon, they didn't have all this. So the most common case is karka olam. Oy cheilim, like, masha'ani, b'emes margish, yesh nekudah b'zeh. The takanah was batel karka olam is tehorah, and the reason that they were metaher it was that it was einah mekabel tumah. That was the heter that they gave to it. Aval hatziyusa, karka olam einah metameh. Im yosheves al hakarka, az hi tehorah. Eich tiharu et zeh? Biklal shetiharu kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Like, this is the b'shnei shlavim zeh holech. Later on, b'sof, we'll explain why that's so. But beinayim, let's say that that's the pshat, keitzad batel karka olam, v'achar kach, oy beis hakisei she'eino mekabel tumah. I would say my beis hakisei, because the beis hakisei is mechubar lakarka. As, l'choirah, bo nachkor she'eilah: achshav tzerichim lilmod ma ken u'ma lo mekabel tumah. Ta'ayan baShulchan Aruch, bahalachos shel mekabel tumah, ma ken u'ma lo mekabel tumah. Mizeh ani margish. From this I margish that it's shayach l'karka olam, shehi yosheves. Hi yashvah al mashu, az achshav omrim al hakarka, v'hu hadin al beis hakisei shemechubar lakarka. That's right, speaks about this. That's right, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'll give you an example. If poskim talk about the seat on top. It's made from plastic, and it's a whole shaila in the poskim if plastic is mekabel tumah. It's attached. So is the pshat it's attached, mimeila it has the din of kol hamechubar l'karka k'karka dami, tumah? Or the pshat is that that was the patur. The patur is the karka. They patured karka, patur karka, patur. Tiharu karka, nagid, okay? Tiharu karka, v'lachen tiharu kol hamechubar l'karka. Aval lo midin shel kol hamechubar l'karka l'gabei hilchos tumah. In other words, you don't have to go to Shulchan Aruch, Hilchos Tumah, to get backed over here that since it's mechubar it's not mekabel tumah. But you bring me a raya or a kasha. I know, I know. I'm just starting. You know what it is? It's something that ein li... ein li raayos ברורות עד שזה מסקנה. I feel משהו פה. תשמע, אני אוהב לשמוע לשולחן ערוך. I like to hear. כאילו עומד לפניי והוא מסביר לי. He's talking to me. You know what he's telling me? There's something about...

Yashva kaka oylam. Batka kaka oylam. So mashu ima yashva, she sat on the ground, she sat, and then the Ramah comes along and speaks about beis hakisei, and then he says, Oyal, kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So now he talks about davar she'eino mekabel tumah, v'yashva alav. So even kishumevia, kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah matgish inyan shel hayeshiva, she yashva alav. Something about the yeshiva, and if it's a kesher that was put, it fell onto something that's eino mekabel tumah. But not get other kushya. I was thinking, what happens if a kesem went from a thing, an object, onto a beged shemekabel tumah? It was like when you have blood and it's something that doesn't absorb the blood, and then it went onto something else, so it's not direct. Maybe it's yashva, maybe it's only when it's direct. Maybe a kesem can't be mizeh l'zeh. Kesem can't be asmosis, k'ilu. Osmosis, a milah b'Anglit. Kesheliach... science. Huh? Huh? It's a scenario where it's possible to think, why should it be tamei? She doesn't say v'yashva alav. Why? Because she wants to explain to you how did the blood get there bichlal, and there's a reason to think because she sat on it, chiddush is no, even if she sat on it, not. What do you mean? How does blood get on anything? No. Kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Yeah, v'yashva alav, she's just in a scenario. How did the blood get there? I would think to say, let's be metamei because she sat on it. Come on. Understanding it, considering normal scenarios, that's how blood... But why is Yashva any different? But I'm saying this, I'm really saying this. I'm saying, is something about here. You know what I noticed? She sat onto something. המילה ישבה מאוד... I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, you see that there was a הדגשה for Yashva. What do I think? I think it's because that's the original way they were מסיק. ישב, דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. והדין שנתנו לה זה בגלל שזה אינו מקבל טומאה, אז היא טהורה. ונכלל בזה ממילא כל דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. For some reason, יש הדגשה. אז יכולים אחר כך לחקור, maybe because Yashva is direct, so there's no safek that it comes me'alma. ואף על פי כן היא טהורה. ואף על פי כן, the נודע ביהודה we spoke about, that every time there's a kesher, maybe it's me'alma. Here it's not shayach to come into me'alma. Yashva וודאי. אז מה אתה חושב שזה ממשו אחר? Never תחשוב שזה ממשו אחר. Maybe that's why it says Yashva. Maybe. Or maybe we could come and say this vort: Yashva direct, לאפוקי if it comes indirect, please. Yashva when it's direct, not because of לא מיגלי ספק וליתא לא ממנה. העניין של קטן יכול להיות שזה... I'll give you an example. יש מסתפקים אם זה מצד אחד is a דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. Tzad sheini is a davar shemekabel tumah. It seeped on the other side, yeah? It seeped through. Cholin lagit, sof sof is a davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Gam b'bigdei tziv'onim nistapkim mizeh. Od ma'arei bachenim ad sof zmanenu, eich sheheim poskim. Yeah? If it went on one side and it seeped to the other side, one side is colored and the other side is white. Yeah, so I bring a psak from Reb Elyashiv, Baruch Hashem, you should know, today the sefarim that came out recently, they give you Reb Elyashiv, this is standing in front of you. Every word is, 'Reb Elyashiv said this, Reb Elyashiv said that.' You saw the latest sefarim, everything is Reb Elyashiv. No, it's mamash, you have a Reb Elyashiv psak on everything. Ilu you're living in his house and asking him she'eilos. Azu pasak, 'Achar sheze sof sof al davar lavan, azai ketem.' Yesh omrim, no, tzad sheini is no. It fell here. Yarad. The ketem was yarad, originally was on a tzavua, and it seeped through, right? Why not that? Why not? Because it's not direct.

That ketem, it doesn't go from one thing to another. It's blood. People in the cup, covered in blood. But this is drabbanan. This is not tumah from Beit HaMikdash. This is a din d'rabbanan. In other words, if she's yashva, like, she has blood, and then her shirt touches it, right? Right. Maybe not. That's 100% what's going through my mind. 100%. I'll tell you the truth, I didn't see any of the poskim talk about it. But you know what it is? When you listen long enough to what's going on in the rate of the poskim, that's really what they're asking. Does it have to be direct or it doesn't have to be direct? If it can, im ken, as Yashva zeh yashir. Yashir, Yashva. In that case, it's indirect. He just said it, Yashva, and then he touched the clothing, touched it. The clothing touched it. Huh? Ketem shenimtza, mai nachakach? According to you, Gershon, let's just leave that to the table, right? And then a little kid comes and cleans it up with a big cloth. For the first minute she was tahor, and now she became tamei. Now I want to tell you, Rav Avadi, I wrote down the page. I wrote down the page. I think it's Shin Samech Vav, I wrote that. Later on in the shiur I'll get to it. Rav Avadi brings pak like this, that what happens if it started off on colored and then it seeped through? So he says it depends when the dayan saw it, because ein lecha safek in ketanim at that moment that the dayan sees it. So if he saw it and it was already on the white, then it's on the white. But how are you seeing it in the first place, if it was on the colored? By the time it came to him, what do you mean? So why would she bring it to him? I mean, why would she bring it? No. She never knew it was a din of colored. Do you know where this case is very nogea? I'll tell you where this case is very nogea. It happened, meaning people came to me with this. Let's say you have a ketem, and she puts it in an envelope, okay? And what happens is that the blood went onto the envelope. The blood went onto the envelope, yeah? We have something. The blood went onto the envelope. So there's all shailos in the Yad: yena kabel tumah, not mekabel, pshutei kli... the poiskim, right? Okay. So on the colored underwear it was good, but then it went onto the white, so that also becomes a chelek of the ketem. So if you learn, הלוךי, mashahu is nimtza alav, אז נמצא עליו... גם משהו אחר כך, it's cheap to something else. It mamash happened, I'm telling you. I had this in New Hampshire, yeah. עד ש... רב עובדיה would say like that, עד שפוסקים. Huh? An envelope? Who told you? You're so clear that an envelope is a paper is a davar she'eino mekabel tumah? Oh, really? That's how you pasken? Oh, really? Who's paskening like that? Okay, so how many people argue on that sevara? Yeah? Okay. You want to read how many poskim disagree with Gershon? The yad is a very big question, halacha. I'll give you an example. You want to know the pads. The pads might have a piece on the inside which is temer gefen, which lets it is mekabel tumah, and on the outside it's made from plastic. So what do you want to say? Don't keep repeating the same thing. There's a machloikes, a peirush, a mekabel tumah. The question is, davar she'mekabel tumah she'eino mekabel tumah. He'd bring the Rishonim. He'll bring you all the meforshim. Read, read paper, no? Read paper. First read paper. Okay, so one second, so one second, so one second. But did they bring Gershon over there? Did they write that Gershon said?

זה להלכה, אבל, yeah. יש מחלוקת אם ניאבק קבלת טומאה, בגלל שזה בא מבגדים ומעצים, כן? לא מקבל טומאה, ובגד כן מקבל טומאה. כן, אבל סוף סוף היום, אני אומר לך הסיפור. היום, אם יש לך מעטפה, ומזה המעטפה לבן, וזה צבוע, אז יכול להיות שזה עדיין בעיה. But what did I do? I'll tell you the story that happened in New Hampshire. What happened in New Hampshire was, I noticed that on the envelope was a different color than what was on the beged. So I said, wait a second, slowly. The beged was tevul. Well, there was two parts. One envelope had a bedikah that was that way, and one had a ketem that was that way. So I said, you know something? Something is not right. Why? It can't be that on the ketem it wasn't, and on the paper it was. That's for sure not, right? Meaning, if this blood, whatever this color blood was, then the ketem was clean. It was a very clean ketem. Was the beged tzavua or not? What? Was the beged tzavua? Why did you bring it to her? I don't know. Why did they bring it to her? They don't know. They were freshly married. That was the story that came to me. It was a freshly married couple, and they were in New Hampshire, and they were all, what do you call it, mevulbal. Who are they going to ask in New Hampshire? I told them they could ask what's-his-name comes from New Hampshire, no? What's-his-name, the vice president that almost won, what was his name again over there? Lieberman. Lieberman. Ask Reb Joey. Reb Joey could pasken shailos. Okay, now. Kitzur, so, kitzur was good, because I saw that it wasn't the same thing, so I saw obviously they came from somewhere else. Okay, but that's not important. Bottom line, bottom line, bottom line. So the she'eilah becomes, maybe yashva has to be direct, something which is indirect, and that's why there's a din of yashva. So either, like Rashi said, good, like the Noda B'Yehuda, tzarich lada'at b'diuk me'efo zeh ba, v'im efshar l'histapek shezeh ba mi'davar acher, yashva yodin me'efo zeh ba. But the pshat is, yashva, the inyan of yashva, ma pirushu u'vechol zot ti'aru, that's the chiddush. Or the pshat in yashva is that it's dafka yashva, right, because it has to be direct and it can't come secondhand from someone. Okay. She'eino mekabel tumah, yashva matzui b'kesem, וכן, וכן. הרי בגדי צבעונים, אומר השולחן ערוך, זה וכן. ה'וכן' זה מילה מאוד מאוד... איך אומרים? זה קריטי, קריטי. Critical. מה זה וכן? זה לשון של השולחן ערוך, וכן? זו תורה לחוד, זה שתי סוגי... It's two different halachos. I hope it's an emes'er diyuk in the Shulchan Aruch. משהו מכניס את זה כהלכה אחת, זה באמת ראיה שזה הם דומים אחד לשני, ועוד נראה איך ולמה. עכשיו בוא נתחיל עם האחרונים. He says like that, like... וכן בגדי צמר הוא also נכלל in the... I just said that. So exactly I say it that way. No, why didn't you say וכן? ... על בגדי צמר. Just say וכן בגדי צמר נכלל in... But it's not נכלל. I never said it was נכלל. I said it's the same type of halacha. הגם שפה כותב טהרה, ופה כותב לא גזר. אוקיי, עכשיו בוא נפתח את הסוגיה, ונראה אם נביא אחדותו בשולחן ערוך, אוקיי? נפתח את הסוגיה, ונראה כמה מגדנים, מגדנות, איך קוראים לזה, המנגודים, כן, ממתקים, מגדנות שיש לנו פה מהאחרונים, ונבין את השולחן. You ready, Daniel? You with me? Ready? שמע, good, good, so far so good. מאוד, אה? You like, you like. I say good. You know, I see שולחן, שולחן is taught, but Dan talks to me. You see, most people, they say that they talk to meisim. It's great. I talk to the meisim all day. I like it better than the live people. Okay, now listen carefully. The Pischei Teshuva, in seif katan yud-zayin, brings from the Sidrei Taharah, which we spoke about last year, but עכשיו בוא נתחיל לפתוח, לפתוח את הסוגיה, אוקיי? נפתח. נמצא דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה, אבל הדבר שזה לא מקבל טומאה, זה נמצא דבר שכן מקבל טומאה, says the Sidrei Taharah.

It goes from the davar she'eino to the davar she, and therefore, isha zu mekabeles tumah, tumas nida. I had a simple question. It comes out that every time a woman brings to be shoyel or picks it up, so she's tameiah. Automatically she's tameiah, because her hand is mekabel tumah. Unless she didn't touch the blood. But she touched the beged. The beged is on her hand. It comes any time, you know, any time. So when they talk about these pins, yeah, when you talk about all these pins, according to the Seder, there's nothing to talk about. Who mitamei? You know what he's talking about? He's talking about you made a kinuach and... So, l'choira, l'choira, it's supposed to be the same thing if she's holding it and she brings it to the rav, right? Huh? It's the same story. Every time, every time the davar she'eino mekabel tumah is on a davar she'mekabel tumah, she is tameiah. Finished. And he says the case, kincha, kincha b'yad. He brings you the story, kincha b'yad. He said, that's what he said. Correct. Even though the ketem never touched the hand, but since it touched the beged that's touching the hand, tumas masa, and the isha is tameiah, and that's his... Huh? Says the hint. ... But the ... speaks about the case of hen. Yeah, both cases he brings. He brings the case in case she's kimcha. Why the ... he only brings one of the two cases? So maybe the ... over there brings that case, right? Yeah, I know, but the ... brings the case over there. Okay, whatever, that's the case. Oh. ... למה דיברתי? מתי זה נמצא? ... למה ...? מה זה נמצא? נמצא באותו רגע שזה נמצא? מה אחר כך? אחר כך היא לוקחת את זה לרב, זה לא בשעת נמצא. עכשיו אתה מבין למה אנחנו יושבים פה. ... להבין מה שכתוב פה, אוקיי? Now, maybe, maybe, דווקא נמצא. כשנמצא, אם הביא אחר כך, אין הכי נמי, זה לא נמצא. אבל קינחה? מה קוראים קינחה? קינחה זה נמצא, right? Is it really נמצא? The נמצא is maybe על בשרה, no? Where is the נמצא? The נמצא is על בשרה. The נמצא is על בשרה, והקינוח זה ללקוט מה שנמצא על בשרה. That the ... says. So ... and this is the ... nusach. יש ... מצידי טהור צודק. שזה לא נמצא על דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה, זה נמצא על הבשר. הבשר מקבל טומאה. אז קינחו צריכים לאסור. אין התשל, אין דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. Yeah? You wrote this psak? That's a tremendous chiddush. Huh? Of course. According to him, there's no sugya toilet paper. There's no sugya. The whole sugya doesn't exist. They come with toilet paper and they're wiping and don't look and it's nothing. According to the— and that's ... very machmir. I'm saying, it's not— that all the ... will bring this. There's nothing to look at. Yeah, because if it's tahorah, right, if it's tahorah, he's supposed to look to see that tahorah. If it's not, yeah, according to them, you can't— there's nothing to overlook. Because he's saying a word that it's not— Huh? No, but I'm saying something else. Okay, we're jumping. You're talking about different sugya of looking. Forget about looking. The point is, קינחו ומצא. You can't come and say it's on a דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. There's no heter of דבר שאינו מקבל...

That's a different. We're gonna get to that later. We're gonna get to that. I'm gonna discuss that a little bit later. Why am I gonna discuss that a little bit later? You'll soon see. I'm asking, yeah, Elon, when is the nimtza? Stop. So what's the nafkamina between what you're saying and I'm saying? The word nimtza. Does nimtza mean found, or does nimtza mean found that you found it, ra'ita? Let's not say him in— that's the two ways that we're saying. Maybe nimtza means nimtza lecha. As kol zman shezeh b'vas v'ata lo yadata, means that you don't know from it. That's not called nimtza. Again, listen carefully, listen carefully. The Seder Tahor comes with a tremendous chiddush, and the chiddush is that if it was kincha b'davar she'eino mekabel tumah, it's not gonna help you anything. Why? Because your hand is a davar hamekabel tumah. So I'm telling you, wait a minute. Hu hadin if I took that davar hamekabel tumah to the rav, it should be the same thing. So I'm telling you, maybe not. Why? Because there's a chiluk between nimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah versus achar kach al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Yoshvo is nimtza. This that a child comes later and puts a matafah there is not going to change anything, right? You see, I'm trying to get down: when does this din begin? So if we say nimtza means she's a nimtza al, it's not she'nimtza lecha; it's not about you. It's about where it stopped, where it was placed. Oh, so then we could say, chaval yechidish: by every kinuyach, it's placed by the isha. You're grabbing, wiping it off the isha. But then you say, but it's not nimtza; you didn't find it, you don't know about it. So when was it nimtza? Then it was already on davar shemekabel tumah. It's a chavaldige nafka mina. If you learn nimtza means al, the nimtza is the al, or nimtza kama al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Where is the nimtza? Nimtza al or nimtza psik al davar she'eino mekabel tumah? If you learn that the nimtza is al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, so the al is very important. This al habasar, so basar is mekabel tumah, guf haisha mekabel tumah. Ma she'ata mekanehcha achar, it's like the child who came after. But if the pshat is, kishemata, when you found it, what was it? You found it was already on the davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Achachen ze diun etzli. Im nagid sheze al habasar— The what? The two ways like this. Either the pshat is, the nimtza is— Nimtza is it was. I'm saying, if it's on something שהיא אינה מקבל טומאה, what about if I didn't know about it till afterwards, where it's already on a davar שמקבל טומאה, when I found it already? Or the opposite. I'm just saying these are the two cases. Original. You see? And these are the two nafkaminas. If let's say it was על הבשר, you wiped it, or it's the other way around. It was על דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה and it went further. Yeah? Good? Good? Okay. מי חושב על משהו אחר לשתק... מי חושב בכלל? I know, but even the joke, it's not funny. Joke, joke... אמין בכל בדיחה יש מילה של אמת, יש משהו... סטופ, סטופ. Science fiction. Okay, here, בקיצור. עכשיו בוא נסביר מה באמת החילוק. באמת הסוגיא טהרה דחוי, דחוי דסוגיא טהרה. הוא דוחה דסוגיא טהרה, that it's on the davar שאינו מקבל טומאה, and who cares if it went further.

So paskens like the Shita. Aleph, and beis, second nekudah: mah bein metasvaros, is a talui b'efshar, is a nimtza. It's just pashut pshat, nimtza laita, nimtza al. What would be the difference if nagi'ach is a talui b'efshar is a nimtza b'metzius, or she's a talui b'nimtza efshar shera'ita? What's the difference? I mean, why? Either the pshat is nimtza al, or it's nimtza lecha, efshar is a nimtza lecha. What's the difference lahalacha? I'm saying why. Why should there be a difference? U'mah hesber hachiluk? What צריכים להבין? Eilu shecholkim al sidur hatairah, lamah cholkim? Mah machlokes? Okay. What happens if it was kinah with something which is mekabel tumah, and she found the kigris, pachos mikigris? I mean, l'choira it's the same sevara, right? Rebbi Yoshev's sevara that it's al habasar. So then if it's kinah, and she finds pachos mikigris, so what's the ma'alah? I'm trying to tell you. Let's say you have a sevara that's basar. If you hold basar is no shiur, so every kinah and it's pachos mikigris, you choira have the same problem. הרי דיברנו שיש שיטה שסוברת בבשר אין פחות. The Rambam, that's the shita that there's no pachos mikigris, right? The Toras HaShlamim. If you learn that the emes, the nimtza, is on the basar, it's always tamei. Every kinchah should be tamei. So the only thing you should be looking for is the color. What happens if it's a beged tziva'i? Today they tell you to take colored toilet paper. Yeah, but if, again, you hold that where was it found? Inside the guf ha'isha, so it shouldn't help you for that either, because where was it found? It wasn't found on the beged tziva'i; it was found on the guf ha'isha, where it doesn't make a difference. Huh? That's a good svara, but who says that helps? You're saying a svara. I agree with you, but it won't be any base, but it won't be a heter that it's... Okay, because you are saying the svara. If you learn that the... No, I wouldn't even say b'di'eved. I wouldn't even say b'di'eved. You know, aklal, is a kesem tamei till you know otherwise, maybe, so it's not going to help anything. Huh? You don't know the color. Maybe it's green color. Yeah, but again, if you can't be mevarer kesem, remember we said this yesod, that a kesem might be tamei till you find the heter. That's not this, it's not that. All I'm trying to bring out is, if you use this line of thinking, you're running... So then, A, what about pachos mi'kigris? It shouldn't help you according to those shitos. And what about bigdei tzivonim? Who said? I hear the tzad sheini, but I'm clarifying, maybe not. Maybe since it's guf ha'isha, so the colored toilet paper won't help for you. בלשון נגיד, שזה החידוש, שזה הלבוש, ואחר כך זה על גופא, על התינוח, זה אומרים רק — this we say only by the case of davar shemekabel tumah. אבל בגדי צמרים, ועל כפחס מקדיש, לא נגיד את החידוש הזה. Why? It has to do with understanding within a davar shemekabel tumah, al and nimtza. It has a lot to do with that. Again, עוד פעם, אני רוצה להגיד, כן, אני רוצה להגיד חידוש. הפוסקים ותלמידי זלחא, כולם, כולם מדברים באותו סגנון: קינחה, קינחה. I even saw the B'tzel HaChochmah — someone showed it to me in shul today — the B'tzel HaChochmah also, a hundred percent, it's called that it's coming from the גופא אישה, so every קינוח אין לך הֶטֶר של דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה. של גופא אישה. ... ממש ... אבל for a different reason. The ... is because it's על ידה. Okay. So I'm asking, אם כן, אז הוא הדין by פחוס מכגריס, because פחות מכגריס according...

This many sheets, al haboses not going to help you. Hu adin b'migli tzivoinim. If you learn that a kesem is tamei, unless you could come and say, I don't see tumah, you can be mevarer the kesem, so maybe she's tehorah. Well, what are you? You can't be mevarer. It's like neveilah; it's like neveilah. What are you going to do? Right? We spoke about it. What happens if there's a kesem and it's neveilah? We said there's a machlokes, right? Depends how you learn, right? If it's kesem and neveilah, it could be a problem because ein li ata kesem. That's what the ... titaher temeiah. Az im kein, im zeh al habosa, lo yodia metzava, va'al habeged shekinachta. Lo, zeh lo nafal al habeged; ata kinachta את זה. So good, so what? You can't see. Whose fault is that? Okay. In lashon, I'd give chidush, that the din of al habosa v'ata kinachta is a chidush rak al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. But when it comes to zavuah v'gris, lo mimtachidush. Lama? Why? Trichin lachzor lanekudah, ma nitkaven b'nimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, lasbir את זה, lagdir את זה טוב. Achar kach nihyu chilukim, bein bigdei tzivonim, yeah, bigdei tzivonim, and gris. Okay. Now, let's talk. Could a person come and say, Kincha? I throw it away. So that's what they tell you, right? Melamdim otcha, don't look. Throw it away and don't look. Throw it away and don't look. That's how they melamdim. Okay. Let me ask you. If you learn the chiddush of Rav Elyashiv, that the nimtza is really al habasar, yeah? So what are you doing? You're gonna come and say, I'm a kaneh what's al habasar and I'm not gonna look? What does that mean exactly? Could a person come and say, every time a woman has underwear, don't look at it, ever. Never look. Or it's dafka by kinuach we say don't look. Maybe you should teach a woman all the time, never, never pay attention. A woman would never bring any kesam to a rav. I don't know, I didn't see, I don't know. Throw it into the laundry and finished. Unless it's not a good tznius. What? Unless by the stain she looked and then you bring it, huh? No, I didn't know that. Maybe that's how they do it here, but in my world they don't do it that way. In my world, by kinuchim they tell you to throw away. Doctor, doctor. Normal. Which means don't look at it. I never... I never... Normal people take off their underwear and they look inside and understand what is that. Okay, so most normal people do look. Most normal people look. Most normal people do look. No, it's not good from time. Okay, I want you to look it up and tell me where it says not to look at the underwear. It says it by kinuchim. It doesn't say by underwear. Don't say that. Goyim. I don't know. Goyim look at other people's underwear. I don't know. I'm talking about normal people. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Okay, there's nothing to look at. It's not found anywhere. They tell you by kinuchim not to look. Okay, I challenge you. You know what? I challenge you. תמצא לי איזה מקום, איזה פוסק, איזה ספר, איזה בן אדם, איזה ... איזה ... מישהו ... מה אתה רוצה? ... שיגיד לי שצריכים ללמד אישה ... להסתכל בשום דבר, בשום תמים, לא להסתכל, להעלים עין מקטנים. כתבו את זה בכינויים, כתבו את זה. כתבו את זה בכינויים, כתבו את זה. You found somewhere that it says about underwear? You found it? No, you didn't find it, because it doesn't exist.

It doesn't make a difference, white or color. Not to look. Not to look. By white, by white you don't look. By white. Underwear? Oh, you look. Don't say that you should drive. But say that you should drive. By the teacher they tell you don't look. By the look. Ilan, am I right? Is your rebbi right? Do I know what I'm talking about? That's the way you see it. Whatever you look at, they always tell you kinuchim. So don't talk about kinuchim. Talk about everything. Teach a woman never to look anywhere. I don't know if you're allowed to do that. I don't know if you're allowed to take underwear and just throw it out. I don't know if you're allowed to do that. I don't know if you're allowed to do that. Maybe kinuchim is different. I hope kinuchim is different. I hold that kinuchim is a whole different sugya. You know why? Because the nimtza is different by kinuchim than it is on tzivaim, on begadim, excuse me. I know it's worse, but it's different also. The same cheshbon of worse is also better. You know, if you notice, it says, Batka karka olam. What is she looking at? I don't know. Huh? Oh, so he's not mechalek, huh? He brings from Reb Elyashiv. How does he get to Reb Elyashiv? Okay, very good. Okay, so I was right, huh? I was right. So according to the cheshbon of Reb Elyashiv, then anything. Or maybe not. And I'll tell you what is going through my mind. I'll tell you what's going through my mind. Yeah. Mishmeres taharah is a sefer shemeivi Rav Karp. Rav Karp. It says by both, you see? Okay, now, because of this cheshbon, right? Because the matzah is babasar. That's Reb Elyashiv's chiddush. I mean, they all say it, but he says it obviously across the board. Okay, now, the question becomes, the question becomes, yeah, what's called the re'iyah? What's the re'iyah, right? Yeah, what's the re'iyah? What's called seeing? If you learn that it's on the matzah, the makom hamatzah matzah, then there is a bedikah. You're supposed to check. I mean, there is an inyan to see what's there. Bedikah karka olam. So teach you that Shulchan Aruch should just say, don't look there. What do you mean, bedikah karka olam? What is she checking? I don't see. She got up and she looked. Bedikah, she looked. What are you looking? Why does a woman look? Oh, you want us. I hear what you say. You want to say to build a case. That's like by yashan. Bedikah karka olam, she checked. But it's really not, again, what do you mean? Maybe she matzah. She got up and she found blood. What do you mean, bedikah? What do you mean, she wasn't checking before? The case of bedikah—what's bedikah? Oh, that's the case of bedikah karka olam? Bedikah means she checked before. She sat down, then she sees that there's blood, and she sits down. Now why is she checking before? It's just a case, not a story. Even checking, there's no dirt over there. Aha, so that's what you're... It's not that she was looking for blood before. What's the difference? It's a theory case. It's a clean area. That's it. I'm trying to ask, why would they do that? Why would a woman do that? She wants to sit down on the ground, keep it dirty on that. Even if she checked the ground, let me ask you, why would she do that? Even if she did, what's the difference? She did. Why would she check an eidah baduk? She did. Can I say what I think? I have a feeling, from learning Hilchos Niddah, that they used to check. When they got up, when they sat down, they used to check. They used to check. For what? For niddah. Could you bring the Rashi? Read me the Rashi. How does Rashi explain bedikah karka? Do you know what I'm saying? I'm saying, there's something there that she sat down, that she's checking. Who checks? I don't know. Most people, when they sit down, I never saw anybody check. You know people who check? Yeah? Okay, so what you're going to do is, you're going to look at the Rishonim, and this is your homework for today. Is it possible bedikah? Because that's how they used to do things. That was the taharah.

In those days. Now the truth is—wait a second—the truth is, there's other cheshbonos also. There's real tumah taharah. So it's very shayach the bedikah is because of real tumah taharah. I don't know. But I find that bedikah wasn't just, גראַדע she looked. It's tumah that she looks. Bedikah, she checked where she sat down. They used to check before they sat down. Now, could be they used to check. Could be she bedku because of tumah taharah, so b'Mikdash. אז היו טומאה טהרה, they were very makpid where they sat. Could be. But it's very shayach that there isn't an inyan that when you get up, you don't check for crumbs. I don't know. To be malim ayin miktamim is something which is very chiddush. אני לא מצאתי. אני לא מצאתי בפוסקים שיגידו, לא להרים עין מכתמים, קינוחים, huh? That's a very good question. You want to know something? There's a Chasam Sofer that says that in halacha we do that. Right, right. So you see I know what I'm talking about. I'm not hacking Chinese, right? I'm coming from somewhere. Okay, now the truth is there's a lashon of a Rambam which says clearly it was a takanah that they were mesaken that. So therefore, you want to know what goes through my mind? What I was thinking, I was thinking like this: יכול להיות שבלאו התקנה לא היה מותר לעשות את זה. תקנו את זה ככה. Again, the point is, you see that they allowed people to be malim ayin. No, I didn't say that. I said they allowed certain halamas ayin, and that is they were mesaken bigdei tzivonim. You can't call that halamas ayin. That's right, because that was a takanah. Because that was a takanah. Because halacha is it's a ... That's right. You know what, lady? ... That's halamas ayin. That's exactly it. You're telling me that—Elon, Elon, what did you eat this morning, or how good did you daven? You must have davened good this morning. You know why? Everything you said today makes a lot of sense. And you're winning him. He's right, but you're right also. I'm just trying to understand something. That's not called a ... No, no. You have a lady who comes to me, she drips every five minutes, and she has a problem because she has nice whatever. Chacham mesaken. What does that mean? Chacham mesaken. Why did they do that? Chacham mesaken. Let me ask you a better question. Let me ask you a better question. Why does it mean she must wear only colored garments? She must. Why did they give her permission to do that? You're saying that if she wears white, she could be ... She must be that. Let me be in. I'm just saying, you don't say that it's not ... Why not? Halamat ay means when you have a situation where you'd be aser, and by you ... Yeah. No, because they were ... that it's mutar now. Now this became a davar shel mutar. Bigdei tzivonim is on the ... The white, you're being ma'alin ... on the white. On the white itself. You know, she's a woman that always ... And then you start seeing those same intervals with stuff on her. Let me say. I hear both stuff. Let me say to her. So it's a raya to me then. Let me tell you something. The bottom line is, what am I doing here? I'm trying to make you open up your mind to understand this sugya. I don't care lemaaseh. I'm not coming, because let me tell you, I'm saying big chiddushim, but I'm saying chiddushim that are good. It's understanding the halacha properly. I wanted those words, ... sheze din shebeged hatzivoni kvar lo mekabel. Ze lo mashtam, halo masayin, lo ro'eh. And I'll give you a raya. Let me speak about this. Bigdei tzivaim, v'ani ro'eh barur sheze dam. Ein safek sheze dam. Ein li shum safek. Gam ze nechlaku haposkim. Yesh omrim, ani ro'eh, ma matir oto? Stam rotze lihyot meshuga? Vyesh omrim, no, סוף סוף, bigdei tzivaim. You know who says such a nusach? And that's what I like about the Chazon Ish, I'll tell you the truth. You know what I like about the Chazon Ish? Hu mefarech es hahalacha lemaaseh. Let's get down to the bottom line. He says a chiddush. The Chut Shani brings down a chiddush, the Rav Karelitz. Dam, it's bleeding, okay? So everybody says, Bleeding? ... bigdei tzivaim? Okay, yeah. And first of all, you know what they're toleh on? They're toleh on R' Moshe and the teshuvos. R' Moshe in the teshuvos writes that you can't call that a kesem; it's regular dam. So bigdei tzivaim is not going to help you with a lot of blood. They didn't learn the teshuvah. They didn't learn the teshuvah, rabosai. He says therefore you should be choshesh that it was bargoshah. He says it clearly. If there's a lot of dam, you should be... and if, what happens if it's not bargoshah and it's a lot of dam? Bigdei tzivaim.

It does work. I, what do you mean? You see, what do you want? And you know what the teretz is? The way the loshon he says it, chutzani. That was the takanas chachamim, that's all. What do you want? A bagged, lo mekabel tumah. Good. Hmm. According to רבי, how would you ever know the difference? Because if you see a lot of blood, you'd be choshesh, because kol dam usually ba b'hargashah. I don't really care the difference between the two. He's saying it even when he's arguing on רבי. I know he's arguing on רבי, but I'm trying to tell you, but the lomdus is the same. That's all chazonish Torah, whatever. You want to know Chazon Ish Torah, you want to... תראה, חזון איש. Okay, ... פוליטיקה. תאמין לי, זה ... חזון איש, מסתמא לומדים שם את החזון איש, מסתמא כל חזון איש הוא יודע טוב, ולמד את זה, ואני לא יודע. ... אומר שזה חזקה, ... אני לא יודע. ... אני לא יכול. ... זה ראיה לשיטתינו. אם בני ברק אומרים ככה, מסתמא זה להפוך, לא? ... אמרתי, מאה אחוז. This is all בני ברק ... תאמין לי שזה בני ברק ... לומדים את החזון איש, לומדים את ר' ניסן קרליץ's תורה, לא? אם שזה אותו... Signon. He was a talmid. He was very close to the Chassidish. Chassidus p'sakim in a certain way. Chassidus p'sakim in yediah. Chassidus p'sakim banui al yediah. In this the Karelis is nekudot haChazonish, nekudot — to break up the... It's the same way of learning. This is the same way of learning. Okay, it's important. Listen, you know, אין לך ראיה יותר גדולה מהספרים. תסתכל בספרים, רואים שזאת הדרך של החזון איש. ממש הדרך. לא שתי אנשים חושבים אותו דבר, אי אפשר ככה. אבל זה אותו סגנון, אותו איך שהוא מחדש, איך שהוא מפרך, ביותר כולות, הוא יותר מקיל. הוא מאוד כולס, אבל... זה לא כולס, לא החזון איש. זה אותו שיטה, תמיד. אני לומד כל היום. זה אותו סגנון של הלימוד. יכול להגיד חידוש מעצמו בלי להביא ראיה, בגלל שככה... פירק את הסוגיה לנקודות שלה. תמיד, גדולה לעולם, תמיד, כולם הם גדולי עולם שמה. פה אין לנו... אוקיי. יש לנו רב שמואל חופני אולי, שהוא יהיה תלמיד של החזון איש. Let's go. Okay, let's go. עכשיו. Okay, now. עכשיו. יפ. אוקיי, listen carefully, come. נו. עכשיו ככה, נו. Listen carefully. על מה זה תלוי, על מה זה בנוי? על מה זה בנוי? רואים את הדם, אבל סוף סוף זה על ביגדי צבעונים. דבר שמקבל טומאה. בוא נפריך את הסוגיה. נמצא, דיברנו, נמצא לאישה או נמצא על. דיברנו בבגדי צבעונים. בדם, לא רואים את הדם. הפשט זה הבגד כזה אין. בוא נפריך את הסוגיה, בוא נפרק את הסוגיה, אוקיי? נעיין עוד נקודה בסוגיה. הפשט הוא כתם על דברים אלו, לא כתם? או הפשט הוא, זה כתם. אבל מה? כתם טהורה, בגלל שזה...

על, דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה, זה על בגדי צבעונין. Maybe it's בכלל לא כתם. Maybe this is not a ketem. Or maybe the place that it's on makes it tahor, ketem tahor. What's the lashon of the Gemara? אינו מקבל כתם. דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה is אינו מקבל כתם. או, אז דיאקטי בהתחלה שזה לא כתם. אבל יכולים להגיד, כן, אבל לא מקבל כתמים, לא מקובל. הכתם כתם, אבל הבגד לא מקבל את זה. יכולים ללמוד שתי הדרות. או שפשטות, לא מקבל כתמים, לא כתוב טהרה, לא כתוב שזה טהור, כתוב שאינו מקבל. אז כנראה שזה לא כתם. זה דיוק ראשונה. אבל כשמעיינים עוד קצת, כשקולפים עוד קצת, רגע, זה הכוונה אינו... maybe כתם, אבל אינו מקבל לה כתם. תגיד ככה: האם זה דין בבגד, או זה דין בכתם? הכתם על בגד זה לא כתם. הכתם על בגד זה, הבגד לא מקבל בזה טומאה. מה הטעם שפתחו דבר שאינו מקבל? אתה שומע מה שאני רוצה פה? או שהפשטות זה לא כתם. כתם על בגדי צבעוני, דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה, it's not a ketem, not a ketem. You know what it is? It's spilled milk. Spilled milk. Lo var ket, lo var shum davar, okay? Lo var ket. Ketanim is, is, is davar sheshayach l'tumah; ze lo shayach l'tumah bichlal, okay? Ha pshat hu, ketanim, davar she'eino mekabel tumah, az hi tahor. עכשיו הנידון: זה הדין בקטן, או זה הדין בבגד? Eino mekabel tumah — יכול להגיד שזה הקטן או שזה הבגד, okay. מה טעם לפטור דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה? אז תוספות בנידה אומר, כשם שהבגד לא מטמא, כשם שהדבר שאינו מקבל טומאה לא טומאה, כן, אז לכן האישה טהורה. שאלנו, למה? ככה, לא גזרו. כמו שזה, כמו זה. הר״ן, הר״ן ידוע שזה שייך לגזירת ותקנת חכמים, שאם יתירו את האישה יגידו שהבגד טהור, ובאמת הבגד טמא לגבי טומאת טהרה, אז לכן אמרו שמה ששניהם או שניהם טמאים או שניהם טהורים, right? פירוש: דבר שאינו מקבל טומאה — אישה טהורה; דבר שמקבל טומאה — אישה טמאה. האם יכולים להכניס את הרמב״ם ותוספות? יכול להיות. לא כתב מזה, אחרת מזה, right? הוא רק כתב, אז לא גזרו כשהבגד לא טמא, right? Could you come and say that the Rambam and Tosafos are the same thing? Why not? Maybe yeah. Why not? Possible, huh? Are you listening to... You learned that it's the same thing? You learn different. ... My hechrech l'cha. ... shekol haposkim agree that it's k'shtei shitos. I don't know. They machliku. Teisis, v'Ran. Teisis, v'Ran. Teisis, v'Ran, yeah? Az im nagi'a to zeh shtei shitos, az mah b'emes pshat b'Teisis? Yeah? Yeah, רבי, you can learn the Ran and Tosfos don't say not like that, right? ... masupik zeh shtei shitos, okay? Az בוא נגיד the mesorah sheyesh shtei shitos פה. Tosfos just says that just like the beged tohorah, so isha lo gazru al isha, lo ratzu ligzor al isha. Lamah? Lo kotev lamah. He doesn't say why. The Ran says it's a sevara, it's a gezeirah, that just like if this would be tahor, then people are going to say, Oh, the isha's tahorah, so the beged is also tahor. It's not. So when the beged is tamei, so the isha will be tamei, right? Because otherwise people are going to make a mistake. Mashenkein when the beged is tahor, so we could say the isha is tahorah. So we can really say that the Ran and Tosfos are the same thing, you know, because why? Because Tosfos is saying the same thing. Tosfos just repeats the yesod that whenever...

The beged is tahorah, the isha tahorah. Lama lo katav lah? Oshichelim lagid. Right? Zeh dibarnu, shehaloshon shelchonoch lo gazru. Lo shayach l'taharah; it's shayach l'gezeirah. Lo gazru, davar she'eino mekabel tumah. Hagezeirah sheshema yavo lite'ot, lo gazru, az lachen bashulchano uvahalochos, mofia lo gazru. Okay, zeh dibarnu bashiur hakodem. Okay. Now, oichim lagid, shelhaRan ein habeged metamei isha, rak gezeirah. Leteisvis, hageder shel ketanim, habeged metamei isha. Me'achar shehabeged mekabel tumah, az habeged, shezeh laisha, achshav tamei. It's a maga, but a maga of nida. Who said she's not touching? Who said she's not touching? What? No, but that's what Tosafos says, but what I'm saying is something else. What's the normal case? I'm saying a moridikah... what's the normal case? Ofksam, directly from the isha, touching, yoshva. Somebody asked you this question. Yoshva, she's sitting. What could you guarantee between the isha? In other words, what part of the ksamim process did you see over here? You found the kesem on the davar, right? So how do you connect the ketem to the isha? By the idea that she touched it. Wait a minute, I'll explain to you what I mean. Give me a minute. The yesod shel ketem is ha-nimtza. Okay, you have to stop. Stop, I have to talk. The yesod of ketem is nimtza. It's not about knowing, it's about finding. How did you find the ketem? How did you find the ketem? Eich matzata et ha-ketem? B'yediah sheyesh ketem. Ze ketem? Oh, matza ketem. She found the ketem. Let's say we could somehow verify a ketem is from a nisha. What? No, but the yashva is a case where she sat, so she's in direct contact. Again, she was in direct contact with the davar shenimtza boi haketem. Yashva, she sat down and she got up, so, and she found what's called she found, meaning directly from her you found on a thing, a ketem. What's a ketem? There's dam mehaisha, and then there's something that it's nimtza al. So what's the nimtza al? The nimtza al is from the isha, but it's indirect that it's al davar. Every ketem, what's called a ketem? A ketem has to do with that you saw it, or a ketem has to do with that it's nimtza from the isha, a ketem. I'm gonna get into od pam, or ulai b'milim acherim. It means some more water. I'm gonna need a lot of water for this.

Oh yeah, my yucofi, can you give me some of your— oh, you have to make it still. Okay, so come, come. Add some cold water also, hot and cold. Okay, od pa. Botishma. Have a good haftarah now, right? Good, good, good. We have plenty. There's a lot of work to do. Forty-five minutes a quarter? Huh? No, I see forty-five, I see. Okay, you hear? Listen carefully. It all depends on how you look. Okay, so listen carefully. I need to tell you, chadesh: is the ketem about the ketem, or is it always about the thing that you found it on? Let's call it a ketem. A ketem is— etzem hadavar zeh haketem? No. Or ketem zeh al davar shezeh lo haisha, ela al davar acher. Yeah, what makes a ketem a ketem? A ketem is a shiur of blood. Tell me something. You know what the word ketem means? I don't know if you know the word ketem. Let's translate the word ketem, huh? A stain. What is a stain? Tell me, what is stain? Define the word. Tagdir et hamila ketem. Ketem is always al, you know that. Could you have a ketem which is not al something? Huh? Then it's blood. I don't know. But let's just say ketem al. I'll give you an example just to show you how my mind works, and you'll appreciate it. Maybe not now, but one day you'll appreciate it. What happens if it's a ketem av, thick, yeah, and it's on the clothing, al habeged, af al pi shelo balua b'toch habeged, it's on the top, ad sheyecholim mamash separate, yeah, nafrid oto, liklof it. You know that the poskim talk about that, you know that, right? On a beged tzavua, yeah. What is a ketem? A ketem is the thing is the ketem, or the thing that it's stained on. Is a chelek of the ketem what it's on, or it is, or it's something that is? Is a chelek of the ketem is what it's on? So now I see what Chachamim are saying. Think about it. If the thing that it's on is a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, so right now the ketem is not a tameidike thing. The beged is what makes the ketem a ketem. So it could be called a ketem, but it's a tahordike ketem? Yeah, of course. A beged. No. What I'm saying is it becomes a ketem just it's a tahordike ketem, because since whatever is on is what makes the ketem. That's right. If whatever is on makes the ketem, if tahor... do what? Do what? It does not make a tamei. It is still luz on shem ketem. No. I would say it very simple. When the ketem falls on the davar she'eino mekabel tumah, the ketem isn't a thing for itself. It's the cloth now. And wasn't even the stomachos and the clot were the same? Because the tamei is tahor, and the tahor is tamei. One is tamei, one is tahor. It looks the same. In the cheftza, it was all the same. All the spiritualized is all different. What? Tamei or not tamei, they say it. A cheftza is the same cheftza in respect. If you look at the thing, is the baluna balu in the cheftza? It is. You could say, it's both. What's the difference between tamei cloth and not tamei cloth? I'll show you the same. It's tamei, it's tamei. My point is, I don't look at the blood. I look at the paper. A ketem is a paper. It's not blood. I'm telling you, it's a ... in the sugya. So therefore, the question is, if I could peel the blood, who cares? It has to be on something. A ketem is not a piece of blood in the air. The ketem isn't the blood. The ketem is the stained cloth. The ketem, rabosai, is the stained cloth. The nimtza and the al is a chelek of the same thing. Either nimtza is you found blood, where al, or a ketem ha-nimtza al. That is the ketem. That is the ketem.

Aino b'kabel. ... No, no, because meila ain't ketter bichlal. It's like, כאילו שיש לו כתר בכלל. There's a beged tahor, מה אתה רוצה? יפה מאוד, הא? כדאי היה לעבור רק בשבילו. Okay, now let's get back, you hear? What? Okay, so slowly, slowly. This is page seven from eighteen pages, so you have to wait. We're going slowly, okay? What would be if the beged is ראוי לקבל טומאה, but for some reason it's not מקבל טומאה? What would be if the beged מצד עצמו is ראוי, yeah? Now, לפי הרן, it's really not נגע, right? Why? Because the Ran's גזירה is— I'm sorry, according to the Ran it would have to be בעצם מקבל טומאה, right? According to the Ran, the pshat is that in order that it shouldn't be מטהר טמאים, right, so you want something which is טמא and it shouldn't become טהור. But if it's a din in the beged— I'll give you an example. I saw the Badei HaShulchan ask a nice שאלה. What happens— If it's on oichel, she'eino muchshar l'kabel tumah. So the oichel — very nice, the biurim, he asks from ha'oro — ha'oichel מצד עצמו, it's davar she'roi l'kabel tumah. Aval l'maaseh, sof sof, זה לא קיבל טומאה. It didn't have the water. It's not roi l'kabel tumah because it's too small, huh? Mi'achar it's roi l'kabel tumah, right? So what's the shaylah? So then it's not mekabel tumah, but the pshat by oichel is it's davar ha'roi l'kabel tumah. No, it's not roi; it's changed the whole metzius, that's something else. Here it's a davar which is roi, it just wasn't muchshar yet. That's all, it just didn't have the capability. It's not the same case. So something which is b'etzem ha'roi l'kabel tumah. So here's the shaylah: do you need b'etzem it should be tamei to be metamei the isha, or the pshat it's a din in the type of begadim? Only a beged which is roi l'kabel tumah is the beged that it's mekabel tumah. Again, according to the Ran, the pshat is like this: in order for it to be aser, it had to have been tamei, and we're afraid that we're going to come and say maybe it's tahor. So therefore, when it's tamei, it's tahor; when it's tahor, it's tamei, right? And then you know who comes along and says, Yeah, but tzveikes? Okay, good, yeah. According to Tosfos, do I need that it should be tamei? No, I need it should be a beged, haro'ui l'kabel tumas k'sam, right? Do I need be'etzem should be tamei, or do I need that the beged, the din in the begadim of k'sam? I'll tell you what the nafka mina is. You want the nafka mina? What happens if it's only ra'ui l'kabel tumah midrabbanan? Oh, he's already going to the books, so he knows the Aruch HaShulchan, right? The Aruch HaShulchan comes along and says, yeah, se'if mem aleph, right, that even if it's a davar she'kabel tumah midrabbanan, it's still the nidah b'Yehuda, right? You're not mashkim what's wrong. What's wrong? Do me a favor. I don't like to fight other people's battles. Take out the—let's get me the Badei HaShulchan, and you look at it, man, what do you want from me? ... Right, he has to be muchsar l'nichaleh. He doesn't want it. Okay, go ahead, yeah.

Yeah, okay, but look at it, look at it. Go ahead, go ahead, Nu. What? And you're looking up the Rabbanan. Okay, so bring me the two stamim. Yesh drabbanan and ein drabbanan. Go ahead, Nu. Yesh drabbanan, not drabbanan. Who? Achronim, achronim. Mi achronim? Rashi v'Eliach. Shnei Achronim. It doesn't say achronim, it says tachtonim. No, yesh sipur יפה מאוד. If אתם אחרונים, אם אלו אחרונים, אז זה סתם התחתונים. Let's go, go ahead, Nu. ...שקיבל טומאה, ומצא על גביו כתם, האם הוא טמא? ...זה לא ביודעא, דין שטמא בכתמים ... גם עליו. וכן ... השולחן. ואילו לדעת ... לא גזרו עליו חזקה טומאה, שהרי הטעם שכתם מטמא אף על גב דהוי ספק דרבנן, ... משום דממקום מקום טמא. זהו, בעצם כן טמא, כן מקום, טמא. ממש זה דרבנן, כן. ...אז היא לא טמאה, ממש היא לא טמאה. אוקיי, good. So let me ask you a question, yeah? מה המחלוקת? מה המחלוקת? בין הנודע ביהודה והחתם סופר, Rafi, what would you say? I could say very big machlokes between the Noda BiYehuda and the Noda BiYehuda. The Noda BiYehuda learns דין דבגד. ממש, it's a beged הראוי לקבל טומאה. Such a beged is מקבל טומאה. What do you want? It's מקבל טומאה. Mashenkin if you need בעצם, it should be מקבל טומאה. You really need a tumah. Midin shnei ksheikes, midrabbanan, it's not mekabel tumah. What do you want? And hilchos shnei ksheikes is not mekabel tumah. Go ahead, read it again. He wasn't paying attention. He's busy with the hachsharas ochlin. One more time. The daas ha... hadin shemitamei biktanim, the chachamim lo chilku bazeh. Lo chilku bazeh. Peirush, it's a bigger... mekabel tumah. What's the difference, be'etzem, what tumah it is? What's the difference? It's that type of beged. Go ahead, yeah. He goes into the what? Into the metzius. Is she tamei? Is she... is it metamei? It's not metamei. What do you say then, Neil? You're not maskim? You don't like the yesod. You're saying spiritually it's a safek. I lost you on that, that part. The what? The נו, do the same as within the beged. The beged, what's the difference? The beged's a beged. The beged's a beged. A beged is mekabel tumah, so it's mekabel tumah. I hear, I hear, I hear. But otherwise you're completely not saying anything. Kemo, kemo, who said? Maybe not. Lo chilku. Well, we don't find a chiluk. That's what he means. Maybe there is a chiluk. But why should they not be mechalek? Masheinken, the ... comes and says that in the gedarim of kabbalas tumah, the isha is not mekabel tumah with this. In Hilchos, next perek, the isha is not mekabel tumah. So that's mishum not mekabel tumah, there's beged. No, here you want to say that the Noideh Bihudah is poshut. Who said? Okay, I don't know, I don't know. It's very, very difficult for me to learn that it's lo chilku. Who said lo chilku? Actually, yechalku. So he means to say, lo matzinu chiluk. Just write that. Write, lo matzinu bahalacha chiluk, and efshar yech. Who said not? Maybe the bekius of the Noideh Bihudah didn't see a chiluk, so say, lo matzinu chiluk. And the ... is going to the guf ha-davar. Okay, so let me tell you what we're going back to. Now, now I want to know, what about beged tzavua? This, what tosafos? Beged tzavua, the pshat, it's not a ketem, or it's not a beged that can be mekabel? Huh? So I'm asking, now that they came and they said that there's none.

So what's pshat? It's not a ketan, right? Or it's the beged. So the truth is, let's go to the reason. What's the reason for beged tzavua? So we have nida daf yud aleph amud beis. Are you with me? If you're not, stop. If no one's not—I'm saying no good, I'll stop. This is not—this is no good. Huh? You're not maskim. So why aren't you maskim? No, you're not. You're not happy. I thought you'd be dancing. It's a sheinah zachin we're saying. ... that kesem is the beged. Okay, so let's see by bigdei tzivonim, all right? Bigdei tzivonim. What's the reason for bigdei tzivonim? So Rashi says, She'ein hakesem nikar bo. Is that all that Rashi said? Rashi said a few more words. Rashi says more. What did Rashi say? He says a few more words. You see, if he just said it's eino nikar, all right, you can't tell, you can't tell. Does he just say that it's eino nikar? It's not noticeable? Or he has more? Eino nikar kemarei dam gavoh. He's just saying eino nikar, you can't tell. Kemarei dam gavoh. Let me—she'eino nikar dama, not nikar dam. And the truth is, I don't understand the takanah. Bigdei tzivonim. If you can't tell, so you can't tell. And if you could tell, so what are you playing games? I don't know what the game here is exactly. Yeah, I know it doesn't—what's the whole sugya of bigdei tzivonim? Either you could tell or you can't tell. I don't know, that's a game. It doesn't look—so, so, either you could tell or you can't tell. Either you can tell good, if you can't... So the truth is, the truth is, anybody ask this kasha? Who? No, I'm saying, but from the books, from the cheating books, no? Yeah, but this is, you're trained by me. I trained you. I need a galti or ... It's a simple question. Any person who reads this halachos ... unless you learn this lomdus, a ... is a ... till proven otherwise. So here that you can't tell, ... I don't care, which is what we spoke about. But what happens if you could tell? Okay, I say, but at least one part of it is explained, that the pshat is, if you can't tell, you might still be tamei. Yeah, but that's a very big chiddush, right? That's what we started the shiur. Don't bother, who said we're machmir? We spoke about, are you tamei till proven otherwise? Okay, but pashut you're tahor till proven otherwise. So what's it to talk about, ...? So you know what I would say the pshat is? Maybe, ... since it's only a safek, so that's pshat, v'lo nikar, so it remains a safek, therefore we're meikel. That's what it means, eino nikar. Eino nikar means it always remains a safek. Pshat, you can't tell. It's dam, but it's eino nikar, the dam, so the—what does it mean? I don't know. I don't think it means anything. It's just ... that's what I would say. I hold it's something completely different. Okay, the ... means like this: the machashein nikar, which means is even when you think it is, you can't 100% ever be sure. That's what it means. Eino nikar means you know for sure, ... You can have no question. Because that's part of ... white. Okay, part of it. Now you're talking about a different question. Is that how you learned? Is that how you learned? I would say it's better than you. Even though I learned like this ... and I would say it like this. Listen to the tights. Yeah, he asks this kasha. According to this, if it's vadai, right, then he should be tamei. If you know for sure, I have no question, right? You're kash. Yeah. Okay. I want to say it like this. Soif soif, the dam cannot be nikar properly, okay? So even if you know what it is, that's not called a kesem. You can know what it is. You can see what it is. But since at the end of the day it isn't the right color, therefore it's not a problem of kesem. You want to know where I understood this from? I told this to you in Borough Park. You can have dam on the thing.

It's not strong damage finish. On a ketem, as long as it's not strong, it's not dam gomur. Red, red, it has to be dam. The minute you don't see dam gomur, it's already not a ketem. Finished. End of story. That's the whole ketem. That's the pirush. What's not good for a bedikah, what's not good for a bedikah is kesem is 100% good. Shenishtart loit. Why? Because that's not the ketem. Ketem has to be dam gomur. Nira — I'm sorry, nira dam gomur. I'm playing a major vort here. Since you don't see the dam gomur, she'ein ha-ketem nikar bo kimare. It's not even ein ha-ketem nikar — eina nikar, but not just eina nikar dam. Eina nikar kimare dam gomur. You need to see the mare of dam gomur. I want to tie it in. Rav Moshe paskens that if it's a lot of blood, yeah, so we said it's tumas meah. I told you, if you look at the teshuvah, all he says is because we know it's b'hargashah. But if not for the yesod of hargashah, l'maaseh, l'maaseh, it's tahorah. Why? Because it's not ketem. It's not what — you don't see dam gomur. That's not the takanah. The takanah was if you see dam gomur, it's ketem. Now let's clarify this. Listen carefully, rabosai. What role... Does the beged play? Look at the lashon by. I like the word Rashi, she'eino nikar boi. Beged. Look at them saying, nikar, kemar dam gomer. Bo lo nikar. It's in beged. The beged is what makes the ketem, and this beged is not roi likar boi dam gomer. You hear? Why is it that it's important that it should be nikar boi kemar dam gomer? So what? So it's not nikar boi, but you know what it is? Mefurash lachazuv, shetzarich lakir bo. There's a chiddush. Tnai chitzon, tzrichim lakir. ... af al פי אומר sheketem tzarich lihyot beofen sheze nikar sheze dam gomer. Yes. How do you see from Rashi that he says even if you know vadai it's dam, but— All I said was nikar dam gomer. What do you mean gomer? You want to explain the word gomer means? Watch, there's dam which is not gomer, which means it's only halfway blood. There's a new type of blood. There's low-fat milk and, what do you call it, and skim milk. So there's low-fat regular dam and not dam gomer, 1% dam gomer. What are you talking about? That's what I'm telling you. So that's what I'm explaining to you. That's what I'm telling you. Crazy. That even if it's dam, as long as the mar is not gomer. I'm telling you, if you could see, that's because— There's no such thing. There's no such thing, because you can't see it. Eino nikar. You can't tell. You can't tell. You know it, but you can't see it. What if it's, ah, Rebbe, on this— you see it's blood, then you start— Don't ruin the poshut zach. It's not nikar. It's there. You know it's there, but it's not noticeable. Not k'marah dam. K'marah dam gomer. It's not a complete marah of dam. You see dam. That's not what it looks like.

Exactly. Not that it's a dam gomor. I know, that's what I'm telling you. So the marah is, the color of it isn't the normal color of blood. So you don't—what do you mean, you have a safek if it's blood? No, don't say that, because that's not what blood looks like. So, meila, that's not a ketem. It's a beautiful deheira in Rashi. ... I want to say a chiddush. You know what a ketem is? A ketem has to do with nimtza, spotted. You spot a ketem. I'll tell you another chiddush. Just write this down. I saw something interesting, the way they see maris in Brurah. I'm saying, what do you call it, they don't pay attention, they look quickly. You'll see, I do the same thing. I look and I go and I move my eyes away quickly. On first glance, spotted. Does it strike you, nimtza? איך שאני מוצא את זה. לעיין זה לא ketem. Ketem is not iyun. Ketem is nimtza. Spotted. And it has to be striking for me to spot it. It has to have a right color of red blood. Not a question of doubt. How would you say it in English? Yeah, but it has to be... admimut. Nimtza. I think the re'iyah and the al play a very big role. Kesem shenimtza. Remember I asked you a question: when do we decide what is the kesem? Is the kesem b'bsaro? Is the kesem when she sees it? Remember I asked you about the seeing. How does the seeing—where does the seeing come in? The seeing is what makes the kesem. And it has to be al dovar, A, it has to be mekabel tumah, but it also has to be al bigdei lavan and not tzivonim, because then it's not nikar. The nimtza isn't there. It's together. It's the same halacha, v'chein. It has to do with the bigdei tzivonim. It has to do with the beged. V'chein, it's a din in the beged. It's not a din in you. It is a din in the beged. Bigdei tzivonim is a din in the beged, just like davar she'eino mekabel tumah. These begadim are not ra'ui for ksamim. But you need a beged that it's nikar bo, that you're able to recognize. Dam gam. There's not still—why is it that way? Give me a few more minutes. I want to go a little further now. I want to go a little further, okay? You ready to go further or you're not maskim? You're not in? Okay, so let them do that. I don't care less. Tell me, are you with me or you're not interested in this? You hear what I'm saying? You like it? Not so much. Not yet. Huh? No. Okay, let's go further. What happens is not a davar shebikdusha. Are you allowed to take a ketem, you listening to me, and throw it away and not look at it? No. Yes. Yes and no. Before you know it's a ketem, tinchen throwing it out. Or after you know it's a ketem and you bedavka don't want to look. So before the nimtza, it's not a ketem. But once it's nimtza, to not look what it is, that you can't do. Something that is a ketem, you can't say, I don't want to look at it. If let's say she feels that it's wet or whatever it is, I don't know if you could come and say, I don't want to look at it. Before the nimtza, so it's still not a ketem yet, so you can get rid of it.

Once you know there's a ketem, I don't have a raya from the poiskim. You can just say, you know, I don't want to look at a ketam. You know, I'll prove it to you. You ready? I want to tell you now, what happens if you come to the rav and the rav says, I don't want to look at it, throw it out. She doesn't know what it is. She comes to the rav, I don't want to see it. No, she doesn't know. She's mesupek. She doesn't know anything. What are you tired? It's good silence. Let the rav cover it, I don't want to look at it. With this, let's discuss. No? No, no one's not with me. I don't know, I feel very... So when am I going to do the rest from 10 all the way to 18? Huh? Tomorrow. The what? After? Can we do it after? No, you're leaving after. Thursday. Okay, you daven Mincha, I guess we'll see ma'ariv. Watch out. I definitely started according to 12. You can't ta'ina and say. Yeah? Okay, Mincha. Learn Torah. What kind of bracha? I'm listening, Rafi. Come, come over. What's your name? Scott. Okay. Yom hadin you'll remember. To me and us to remember. What's your name? Moshe what? Shmuel. Oh, you want to be a tzaddik? How about Talmud Chacham? Also? I'll ask you like Rav Shmuel Birnbaum would say. How about baseball? You like baseball? And Shmuel Birnbaum asked this in Adelphi yeshiva, ‘What do you like doing, Yankees or tasties?’ Tzaddik yeshiva, Adelphi. Yankees or tasties? Of course tasties. You want Yankees? ... Bezeicher, ... yourself, ... yourself. Bring tefillin, ... the clothes yourself. He was first. He was first. Yeah. ... beged ... Why is it ... beged? ... unless that's called. You mean beged clothing. Obviously you see they don't need clothing. No, all the ... all the cases, it's not clothing. Only clothing. Yeah, what's the lashon? It's interesting. What's the lashon of bigdei ...? Bigdei. That's a very nice ... I know, but it's a nice ... I never thought of that. Why dafka by ...? That's a nice ... I never thought of that. All my years. Just like ... ... ... Again, because the shchichus is that way. In other words, the shchich was karka, and then the vegadim was shchich. Makes sense? Okay, yeah. I want to buy the book from somebody. I need copies. Yeah. When I buy the book from somebody, I shouldn't... No copyright. Now I want to use the copies. How should I go about it? If I buy the book from him, or I have to ask permission from the owner? Either one. Either one. Either one. Go ask permission. Not the owner of the book, the one who copyrighted, the one who printed the book. Say, I want to just buy the book off the present owner. Yeah, you could buy the book, then you're allowed to use it. Yeah, you're allowed to use it. Yeah, of course, it's your book. And then if he wants to buy it back later on? No, that's fake. That's not real. That's you're playing games. If I buy it, then that's it. I mean, at least for a while, it has to be real mechirah. It can't... It has to be real. You can't play games. Okay.

Amen. Amen. Shemai. Amen.

Shmai. Amen. Shmai. Amen. Shmai. Amen.

Another end doesn't want to finish. ... בסדר? ... נותן ליעף כוח, כמו שיכול לתת כוח ... זה. תשמע, אדם יכול להיות מנוחה ואין לו כוח. אדם יכול להיות בעייפות תמיד ויש לו כוח. תן ליעף כוח. הרי שמן, שהעייפות לא באה. על אי כוח, זה. כשאדם עייף, יש לו כוח. לא, לא, לא. אדם יכול להיות עייף, טוב להיות עייף. לא כתוב שהקדוש ברוך הוא נותן לאדם שלא יהיה עייף. כתוב ... נותן.