Hilchos Niddah: Re’iyah Machmas Tashmish—Veses, Chazakah, and the Shefoferes Test

Transcript

I'd like to make a sikum of the things we spoke about in great length the last two days. Isha sherasa dam machmas tashmish. So we spoke, the shaylah if it's because of vestes or chayish. That's what we spoke. If you look at the Rashba, the Rashba is the mekor. I went to find the mekor of where it all comes from. It's a Rashba. Shailos u'Teshuvos, tof tof lamed tes, that it says clearly that it's because of vestes. Since it's only vestes, it's only d'rabbanan, and if it's only d'rabbanan, safek d'rabbanan l'kula, and the Noda BiYehuda actually, that says all this, came after the Rashba. But I do want to point out that there's an interesting nekudah that we didn't discuss yet, and that is that there's actually two types of vestes. There's vestes ones, and then there's vestes haguf. Which one is this? Again, there's such a thing called vestes ones, like kfitzah, jumping, forcing, ones. And then there's such a thing called vestes haguf, not forcing, but it's the derech of isha, simanim that she shows. Which... I mean, that's in hilchos vestes. There's vestes ones, like kfitzah, and then there's vestes haguf. I don't know if that's ... It's not so clear in the Acharonim. You want to call it akel, vestes. Okay, I don't want to get into vestes right now. ... I want to know, is it vestes guf or vestes ones? Which one is it? Now, I found a Tosafos. I don't know why I never saw this. I don't know. It just last night it hit me that I missed the Tosafos, and that's why I feel very important the need to tell it to you. There's a Tosafos in Niddah, daf samach-vav amud aleph. Rafi, I'd like you to take it and show everybody how Tosafos is mechadesh that it's vestes, like the Rashba. He says it, but it's vestes geruah. It's not a very strong vestes. ... is not a very strong vestes. Samach-vav amud aleph, divrei hamaschil v'ne'emenes. Right. Now, he's talking like this. Rebbe paskens that it only takes two times to make a chazakah. Now the shailah is, what would Rebbe hold in our case? It should also be two times. So there's a whole nidon in Tosafos: what would Rebbe hold in ...? Now that you have this introduction, now read the Tosafos. Says Tosafos: פירש רשי, דדווקא הך סעיף דנאמנת קאמר. That's Rebbi. The man is twice. That's Rebbi. Go ahead. When it comes to the Rei machmas tashmish is gimel. Why? Yeah. Even Rebbi, who holds two, will hold three times. Okay, continue. He says what he says. No, continue. Read me again the lashon. Dumi d'hachi d'le'eil. D'amar l'yamim, beis. U'lemashalei man chacham gimel, kivan achla shum, d'afilu Rebbi boi chazakah. Ah, because by achlah shum, achlah shum, when you eat shum, you taka need three. Vestis, which is totally on chazakah, which we would call vestis haguf, let's say, let's just say, is actually beis according to Rebbi. But when it comes to achlah shum, then you taka need three, and rei machmas tashmish would be more compared to achlah shum than to regular chazakah vest.

You see, I put in the word guf in everything, but just to give you clarity. One thing for sure, even Rebbe, who holds vestes is by two, by ro'eh machmas tashmish will be three, like by ochlah shum. The reason being, it's not as strong. It's not the same amount of chomer of a regular vestes. Normal vestes, Rebbe holds two. Ochlah shum, who? Could be. I mean, I saw in the Tosafos, and I didn't bring it out clearly, that even in vestes, and we'll soon see why this is very important. We'll see how important this becomes. I mean, truth is I cheated. I saw through a Chasam Sofer. We'll soon get to the Chasam Sofer, okay? So again, again, clearly, ishah shera'asah dam machmas tashmish, it might be vestes. That is a true statement. The question is, what type of vestes is it? And would we call this vestes like ones? Tosafos seems to call it that, because Tosafos says that even Rebbe, who holds of two, will hold of three, like by shum, and therefore you would need what? Three times. So he compares it to what? Ochlah shum. Is it as strong as your regular— No, it's as strong as regular vestes? No, regular vestes is by two times. Mashen kein by this, ochlah shum and ro'eh machmas tashmish, you will need three. The Noda BiYehuda— What's the svara? No, because it's true. It's called ones. It's a different type of vestes. From an outer, it comes from something that you're causing, so it's not as really. The patterns have to be stronger to prove it. Okay. Ilan, you with me? You see the Tosafos, it's a very important Tosafos in this sugya. Now, we spoke of a nidah. Yehuda, the word nidah, Yehuda came up a hundred times in the last three, four days, okay? So it's in Madura Kama, Yoreh Deah siman vav, Madura Tinyana siman tzadi aleph. He explains that it has to be that it's vestes, and it has to be that it's like a veset she'eino kavua. Again, because we spoke that it's vestes. Yeah, but what type of? Is it vestes kavua, veset she'eino kavua? Which one is it? These are things we never touched on. So again, I'm giving you, Yehuda, a sikum, a sikum. Is it vestes or is it chayli? That's the question in this. Now, on the side that it's vestes, the next question becomes is, is it vestes b'of or is it vestes ones? That's a good question. Tosafos is mashma that it's vestes ones, and therefore it's much weaker, weaker than a regular veset that kavua, and therefore what do you need? And therefore you need three, even according to Rebbe. Now, is it called vestes kavua, veset she'eino kavua? So the Nidah Yehuda says it's vestes, it's derabbanan, and it's called a veset she'eino kavua. Says the Nidah Yehuda, what's my proof? Pashut proof. If it's called vestes kavua, a veset kavua is only nekar if you have three times against it. Shvaiferes is how many times? Three times. How many times you do shvaiferes? So how could it be nekar, says the Noda BiYehuda, with a one-time checking, and the teretz is, it's called an eina kavuah. It's called an eina kavuah. What'd you say? I don't know. I learned a tremendous Noda BiYehuda here. What he said was that the Noda BiYehuda says it's not for him. Oh, that's not for him. Okay, shh. The Noda BiYehuda proves that it's a veses she'eino kavua. You know how he proves it? That otherwise shvaiferes, there's nothing to not be up. It's very... Harei machmas tashmish is mutaros. What is the problem with harei machmas tashmish? So either it has to be vestes, or it has to be choli and she's a sick woman. So I explained to you.

Let's say we'll leave choli alone for a moment. Let's say vestis. The Rashba says it's vestis. Tosafos says it's vestis. But then even in vestis, you don't know. There's two types of vestis. There's vest stronger and vest weaker. There's vest that are guf, and there's vest that, which is not a guf but ones. Tosafos calls it ones. Therefore, even according to Rebbe, you would need three. Tosafos calls it ones. Now, the Noda B'Yehuda comes and chips away in a different way. He says even if it's vestis, we still don't know if it's vest kavua. Is it as strong as a vest kavua, or is it as strong as a vest she'eino kavua? Says the Noda B'Yehuda, I'll prove it's like a vest she'eino kavua, because if it's a vest kavua, it wouldn't be nekar with a one-time checking. The checking of the shveiferes wouldn't help you. What's the chiddush? Chiddush in the Noda B'Yehuda, meaning the maskana, what comes out: A, that it's a vest; two, that it's a vest she'eino kavua, that we nekar b'paam achas; and that a shveiferes would help because it is Rabbanan vestis, v'chulei v'chulei. Okay. Does shveiferes work because it's like nekar? Is that how shveiferes works? Let me discuss that with you. Learn the sugya called shveiferes. How does shveiferes work? I would have said, and that's probably what Rav Daniel meant, maybe shveiferes is just checking that the whole story is not here. It's— Meaning, you're checking maybe it's min ha-stadim. Isn't that part of shoiferes, that it's not there, maybe it's min ha-stadim? You answer. How does shoiferes... What? Blood on the makor. Which means is, let's say it's not min ha-makor, what's now? A mistake. A mistake the whole thing, right? Isn't that l'choira what it's all about? Where does the Gemara use the lashon, this rapas? But what is this rapas? Is it about the shoiferes? No. No. The shoiferes is about that it never was, right? So it's not pshat it's nekar. It's not about nekar, it's about that it never was. What is he trying to prove, that she got better? Who said she got better? And why am I saying this? Remember I asked you a question. Chimud might be the reason what causes it, right? There's no chimud by shoiferes, so how could you prove it with a shoiferes? And the teretz is, the way I understand, shoiferes doesn't mean that. Shoiferes just means that it's not coming min ha-makor. I mean, because meichteis, maybe it only comes min ha-makor. I have a shaylah for you, and I want you to work on this today. When it's not on the top, is the story that it's on the side? No, that's what I saw, that if she didn't find anything... Let the oilam, let it sink into what I just asked. You like what I'm asking you now? I'm asking you a very, very precise question. You're supposedly sitting and learning this whole week, so let me ask you a pashut shaila. What is shvaiferes? Rafi, tell me what shvaiferes is. Talk to me, yeah? You take a thing and you check what, with the tube on top, and it's not on top? Yeah. Now, does that mean it's not on top, but it's on the side, or it's not at all? What's the story? From the top at all, that's what seems to be. So I'm asking, is it on the side? It could be coming from the side, yeah. What happens if it's not there at all? There's nothing on, not the top and not the side. From where is it? Again. So maybe it's... Again. Listen, start again. Let's start again. The Noideh Bihudah learns that you know what happened by shvaiferes? It's neker, which means it's the exact same thing like a bee and it says it's not there, right? That's what he says. And then, mimeila it's a raya that it's neker b'pam achas. Yes! So it's neker b'pam achas. So I asked you, is that what shvaiferes is about? I thought shvaiferes was about that maybe it's not coming from the mekor. Where is it coming from? Maybe it's coming from the walls, right?

So I'm asking the shaila as follows. Are we toleh that you taka saw on the sides, or it's toleh that you didn't see on the sides? So you didn't see on the sides, so what? But you saw something, right? What, it came from fresh air? Maybe it came from the nose. It was a nosebleed. That's what happened. What's the story? Daniel, what's the story? What do you say? It doesn't make a difference. Whether it's clean or it's not clean. The ikur is that it's not coming. You say not like that. That's it. The whole thing you want to be oker is it's coming from the sides. That's the whole akirah. Ah, what if she saw nothing? If she saw nothing, it's definitely not from the sides. Not from the sides, and she's... Do me a favor, show everybody where you saw this. Tell me, you're learning this halacha? I'm learning also. You know what? Go ahead. You know what I want? You know, Rafi, you know what I'm talking about now? You know what I'm trying to get at? Okay, tell me. While you look, I want to tell another piece of information. Before you say it over, I just want to tell you another piece of information. When something does come from the sides, is she tameiah? No. Why is tameiah? Really? It's a chazakah. You don't know that it's machlokes the Rosh and the Eshkol; you didn't see it. Of course. She needs steady. Because still... Yeah, but it's like maka. Yeah, but what if she's ro'eh machmas... who cares? Stam if it's not from a kor, it's not from a kor. Dam min hatzad. Dam min hatzad, shetamei. Ro'eh machmas tashmish, maybe. Dam min hatzad? What? You found it? You found what he's talking about? Okay, go ahead, read it. Read it. עד שתבדוק, כן? שהיא לא יכולה להינשא... עד שתבדוק. Iyana, can I teach you something? Clear? כמו שיעור. תדבר כמו אתה מגיד שיעור. You're talking to people. Connect to them. I want you to become a magid shiur. Let's go. אשה בתשובת נודע ביהודה... שכתב, דאישה שראתה שלוש פעמים דם תשמיש והזקיקה לבדיקת שפופרת, אם ניתברר בבדיקת שפופרת... כל זה אם בדקה ולא מצאה כלל, לא מהני, אבל אם מצאה בצדדי השפופרת, שהיתרו משום דדם מצדדים קא אתו, מהני. So the whole thing is finding on the sides, but if she didn't find anything, it doesn't help. It doesn't matter, because the whole heter, the whole akirah is coming from the side. Ah, she didn't find anything, it's coming from the sides. So it's a different... nifla, it's a nifla. People can spend the whole week learning halacha, and they don't know what they don't know. All right, isn't this a ...? You read the Be'er Heitev tes. You go ahead, Daniel, read the Be'er Heitev tes. Go ahead, clear. Does it matter if you find or not find? What did he just read? So read the Pitchei Teshuva. Go ahead. Go ahead, read it. You know what, let's, you know, we'll give a baby question. You found it, you didn't find. No, you want questions like a test? Okay, here's the test. And he's busy reading ArtScroll. What are you reading over there? Magazines. Art magazines. Go ahead. Art about scrolls. Art about scrolls. Put it away. ... Let's go, no? Go ahead, read the Pitchei...

Teshuva again. The big teshuva, but he brings a nice thing. The big teshuva says it talks about the ubar. So because she's mesulekes damim, why you didn't send the sides? Because, well, she's me'uberes, so she would have didn't seen, you know. That really makes no difference if you found or you didn't find. Didn't see, she's not right. But I want to say—she's a muteres, the case that he brought the pas. What do you say? What do you say? Daniel said was you don't find anything on top, it makes no difference, she's muteres. Yeah. That's right. Fine. What he read— No, I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about the case, this story, right? That in case they check and they found nothing, then it's muteres. Why? Because as long as you didn't find min hamakor, that's good enough. Wait a second. So what happens if they found minatztad? It also. It also. Okay, so let's go a little further. What's wrong? What's bothering you? Very simple. We're saying a simple thing. I want to know, is the story of Shfoferet—the story of Shfoferet—is that we found, or even if what, even if we didn't find, we found or we didn't find? Okay. Now, do you know what happens if we pasken vestos d'Rabbanan, right, and you didn't check. You didn't check. Let's say the vest came and you didn't check. Are you allowed to go now and live with an isha without a bedikah because vestes derabbanan? Huh? Beautiful. Says the Noda Bihuda that if you hold vestes is derabbanan, I'm still not in good shape. You know why? Because we pasken that vestes l'gabei to be bo'el with next time is de'oraisa. So how could I tell you that it's vestes derabbanan, Rashba, it's not negei anything? Vestes derabbanan could be that in case I didn't check, so vestes is derabbanan l'gabei the avar. In case I was bo'el. No, no, no, only derabbanan. But l'gabei l'haba, we say vestes is de'oraisa. Even if we pasken vestes derabbanan, we're still not bo'el her. So Noda Bihuda is me'orer this shaila. Says Noda Bihuda, that's why I say it's called a vest she'eina kavua. Maybe it's not a vest kavua; it happened three times. The first thing is that it's derabbanan, because you see it can be nekar one time, okay? And therefore it's like a vest she'eina kavua. Then he says, besides everything, l'gabei l'haba, let's say the vest passes. We pasken vestes derabbanan. Are you allowed to go live with her now? Min haTorah, it doesn't change. Unless you learn that it's vest she'eino kavua. By a vest she'eino kavua, it's not min haTorah. Says the Noda BiYehuda, that's my proof that it's a vest she'eino kavua. Now, the Chasam Sofer comes along and he says, No, no, no, no, no. That's not why you're allowed to live with her. It's not because it's she'eino kavua, because the type of vest is a vest geruah, like Tosafos. That's where I got to the Tosafos. Okay, the Chasam Sofer is in siman kuf nun gimmel, kuf samech daled, and kuf ayin hei. Okay, now you see how they're breaking it up. It's vestes d'rabbanan. So the Noda BiYehuda says its kulah is actually based on the fact that it's a vest she'eino kavua. While the Chasam Sofer breaks it up and says it's actually because it's a vest ha'ones, and a vest ha'ones is not as strong as a vest. The heter is not that it's not kavua. The heter is that it's a vest ha'ones. It's not kavua, but it's vest ha'ones. I hold it's such an important...

It's such an important ... It's unbelievable. Again, both of them are maskin that it's nekar with shfoyferes. The question is why? Because it's only drabbanan, and it's only, and it's only, right? But wait a second. Wait a second. If it's still asur min haTorah, a vest kavua, drabbanan, le'osid—forget about le'avar—le'osid, could you go live with her? You can't live with her. That's min haTorah. So how come we come and say it's drabbanan? And the answer is because vest she'eino kavua. That's the nekudah. That's the whole piece of ... drabbanan. It's nekar b'pam achas because it's a vest she'eino kavua, and the proof is because otherwise it wouldn't be drabbanan. There's no such thing. The ... says, no, that's not why it's called a drabbanan. You know why it's called a drabbanan? Because it's actually not a strong vest. It's not the vest haguf; it's the vest ha-kfitzos. Okay. Now, l'mai nafka mina l'dina? Do you want to see this inside? Should we show you this inside? It's important for you to now see it inside. What? Yeah. Okay, so do me a favor. I want you to see it inside. Okay, it doesn't have to be now. You'll do it in the evening. So again, I want clear, I want clear, all right? Ro'ah machmas tashmish asur, either it's vestes or choli, right? In vestes, it's not even the regular vestes. It's something a little bit less than regular vestes. And the proof is because it's nekar with the shvoyferes. Ai, shvoyferes, l'choira is telling me that it never was. The answer is, they're not telling you it's never was; they're telling you that it changed. It's like nisrapeh. So you have to say that they're learning that it's like nisrapeh, right? Otherwise, you have no raya. Now, why is it less of a regular vest? Because either it's eina kavua, or because it's a vest hakfitzah, ones. So therefore, like the Tosafos, even according to Reb, you'll need more. There's a Reb Akiva Eiger. Okay, if you look, it's on the side, Reb Akiva Eiger, kuf pei zayin, se'if ches, Reb Akiva Eiger. Go ahead, Ilan, take it away. Kuf pei zayin, se'if ches, Reb Akiva Eiger. Go ahead, read it. Can I read the Mechaber first or no? It's not that important. It's on the Shach, actually, se'if katan chaf. Okay, you have it? Kuf pei zayin, se'if ches, in Reb Akiva Eiger. I don't think I have it, Reb Akiva Eiger. You don't have it? Shach se'if katan chaf, mishum agunei. V'lo hachi yesh lomar, d'l'ba'alah d'issur rak d'keivan d'huchzeka liros machmas tashmish, shema tirah b'shas tashmish, d'hu inyan vest, d'havei rak derabbanan, kedekaimanan vestos derabbanan. L'zeh samchinan l'hakel litlois b'makah. Aval inyan zayin נקיים, lo samchinan, lo samchinan, lo samchinan. I asked you this question. Let's say it's midat stam. So what happens? You told me she's clean, she's clean, she's very clean. I don't know if that's true. Is that true? Rafi, you pasken that she was clean, right? That's what you said, midat stam, it's nothing. There's nothing to worry about. Why should we have it? You saw before. No. See it now. I'm not giving you a minute or so to sink it. Could you tell him the Rokeach? Rafi, tell him the Rokeach. Tell this young man. Tell him. Page kuf ches. Page kuf ches. He just translated. Say it. Say it.

The levalada isur rak dekivan dehuchzeka lirot mechamat tashmish, shemuchzeket lirot mechamat tashmish, shema tiraa beshaat tashmish, dehu inyan besed davka miderabanan, kedekaima lan bisto derabbanan. Let's discuss vestes. Then we say vestes derabbanan. When you're discussing nida, this is not going to help. We're not going to be toleh bemaka. You know, it's toleh bemaka. We're not going to. Because it has to do with... Very interesting stuff. Very interesting. ... How is it different than what the W said? It's not a question of different. You know what he's doing? We're splitting now. So what I'm saying is, I'm telling you, you know what you see from over here? Re'uyah machmas tashmish is not about a nida. Re'uyah machmas tashmish is about chashash shebaka. He just said it simple. ... goes to lakel. Why? Because if it was doraita, you can't touch it. Therefore, she's allowed to touch it; it's derabbanan. The fact that we're worried, the shema tira is a derabbanan dekalacha. Legabei her status of nida, the shveres is not going to tell me anything. Afema. Afema. Okay, so everybody write down my homework. My homework is to read the Noda BYehuda. My homework is to read the Chasam Sofer. My homework is to do this Reb Akiva Eiger, all right? Now I'm going to show you chidushim atzum. Why? I went from Reb Akiva Eiger that l'gabei nidah l'bailah, we're not going to say she's not nidah. That's not the issue. The issue is that she'll be mutar the next time. That's all the Shvefer does for you. Toleh b'maka just helps me for the next time. Where are the chiddush? Where are the piece? Peace. What do you mean, what else is going to be? Maybe she's tahorah. What do you mean? The Shvefer will be that she's tahorah. What do you mean? She doesn't need zayin nekiyim. Why should she need zayin nekiyim? Because she's a nidah. From the sides, from a maka, she's a nidah. I told you this. This is what I'm telling you. I'm trying to tell you a moyridike yesod, a moyridike yesod. She still has to sit zayin nekiyim. She still needs zayin nekiyim. The question is the fear about what will be. That's the shaylah. It's not she's not a nidah. She saw machmas tashmish. The question should be choshesh for the next time. That's only derabbanan, a veses derabbanan. Okay, so this is what you have for homework. Now I'm going to show you a little bit more. Do you remember that we said that this is only in vestos, but if you learn that it has to do with choleh, then it has to do with the beis meir, and then it has to do with de'oraisa, right? V'chulei, v'chulei. Does anybody have the Badei HaShulchan that argues with me? There's a Badei HaShulchan that likes to argue with me. Anybody who's argued with me. I'm very upset at him. See, I was learning the whole time that if you learn it's choleh, then it's de'oraisa. If he learns vest is then it's derabbanan. He says, chayli can be derabbanan also. What does one do with the other? Very interesting. Sif katan aleph, go ahead. Then I'm going to show you another very big chiddush, unbelievable chiddush, yeah? Where is it? No? Your wife. I can't start. Go ahead, Nu. Yeah. Give me two different reasons. Go ahead. Continue. Okay. Continue.

If it's for chayli, is it still de'oraisa or derabbanan? What does he say? Continue. ... Continue. Give it to me. It's only derabbanan. What does it say? How? ... We're talking about different cases completely. What should be ...? We're talking about makka, regular makka. ... there, you know it's bleeding. It's different case. Yeah, I mean, because he's not mechal. That's the way he's reading. Okay. Yes, what do you want? There'll be a kivas that the ... needs to wait, right? Can we ... according to Chasam Sofer, that it is veset kavua only, it's a lower thing, it's not as chamur, then she did see, she needs to keep zayin nekiyim because it was. All I'm saying is like this: the heter of tliya b'maka, the heter of tliya b'maka, when mechal between a re'iyah machmas tashmish and the actual ... that's what I'm showing you. The heter of tliya b'maka, the heter of tliya b'maka, is a special heter that we gave to re'iyah machmas tashmish because it's going to be aser her l'olam. What's negea to her herself, we're not going to be toleh b'maka. Why not? Because we don't know if it's motzi dam. So we don't want to be meikel l'gamrei when we don't know what's ... Here, we see dam. We don't know if this makah is being motzi dam, right? No, I'm asking a different shaila. I'm asking, what happens if you didn't find? You didn't find anything. I'm healed. You didn't find anything. I'm asking, what happens if you didn't find anything? She's muteres or asurah? Again, but you don't find the makom; it's your daas. So, well, what's the heter? It's the same thing. The exact same thing. That's what I'm trying to tell you, the exact same thing. Now, you hear me? Okay. The way you read it, he's saying this. He's saying that even after it's a chayli and everything, he's not mechalek that if it's a chayli, it's de'oraisa. He says the maskana is derabbanan, no matter how you look. That's the mashma'us here, okay? But if you learn vestes, then it's a chadrabbanan, right? Not so right. You know who argues on this? The Netziv. The Netziv in Hemek She'eilah says not that way. The Netziv in Hemek She'eilah says that even if it's vestes, Hemek She'eilah siman pei tes, page kuf lamed tes, and also meishiv davar, nish'alos u'teshuvos, Even HaEzer lamed ches, that even if it's vestes, it's still de'oraisa. Even if it's vestes, and vestes is de'oraisa, you hear, Ilan? Even if it's vestes, and vestes is de'oraisa, it's still gonna— I'm sorry, even if vestes is derabbanan, here it's gonna be de'oraisa.

Why? The pashut thing you could say is like the ... because it's only negea for the avar; it's not nogea for the asid. It's an unbelievable ... it's an unbelievable chiddush. It comes out ... chiddush. Rafi, you're going to do this with Elon, right? You're going to do this nekudah. Now what happens if you found nothing on the shvoyferes? And what's with Rabbi Akiva Eiger? It's not a makom. We don't know for sure if it's a makom metzius; it's still toleh b'makom, right? But not legabei the tumah, only legabei the ... machmas tashmish. It's a big chiddush; comes out a ... chiddush. Now, the ... why are you mechalek? I still don't understand, why are you mechalek? How can you be mechalek on that? So let me tell you. I'm going to get to it in two minutes if you just wait. In other words, I'll show you how everything fits. Understand another piece of information, and that is that there's a tzad to say that even a vests d'rabbanan, it's still ... There's two tziv possibilities. So either the tziv means because of what the ... is worried, that some ... is worried, that it's only legabei the avar and not legabei the asid. I don't think so, and I'll explain to you what I think it is. You ready? Are you ready? Listen carefully. You did the tur. According to the Tur — he brings from the ... Rav, you remember the Tur maybe a little bit — that how many times does you need that it should be nekar? Three times. Three times, right? In the case of רואה מחמת תשמיש, how many times will it take to be ניכר that she's not a רואה מחמת תשמיש? Three times she's not seeing blood. Api Rav says three times, right? You did it? You did it inside? You did it? You did it? Rabbeinu Chaim? Go show them where it is. No, it's not pashut. No, it's not exactly what it is. The Shach says it has to be vest ones. Since it's a vest ones, so therefore we pasken that it's good even with one time. But Rabbeinu Chaim, l'choira, learns that it's a vest haguf, so it's b'nekar with three times. Yeah? You have it? You want to read it for them? Api Rav, go ahead. No? How many times? ... כדי שלא לראות, כדי שהיא מסודר. How many times? How many times is that she's not anymore רואה מחמת תשמיש? Three times, right? You learned it. Api Rav says it has to be three times. Nobody saw it. So what do we do? You saw it somewhere. You saw the Api Rav? That's him.

No, you have it? No, you don't have it. You didn't see the apiram. What are we doing? I'm trying to find the ... I didn't get ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Yeah, what do you have here? What does he call it? It's a ... Where is it? Okay, you know what I'm going to do? Listen. Okay, listen what we're going to do. Ready? We're going to try to finalize and set you up that we should work on it next week. Let me tell you what we're going to do. The Rambam, I want you to do—this is what I want you to do, okay? I want you to do that ... I want you to do Chasam Sofer. I want you to do Rav Akiva Eiger. I want you to do this machlokes. How many times it take to undo a rei machmas tashmish? Okay, you need three times. Rabbeinu Chaim, there's two shitos, okay? Either you need one or you need three times. I want you to the Rambam, perek chaf-daled, halacha chaf-alef and chaf-beis, that it's chayli, okay? It's all about chayli, chayli, chayli. Now, what we're not giving—I'll tell you the rest of my papers here. Okay. Hilchos ishus, perek chaf-hei, halacha tes. Do you have to pay a kesubah? If an isha is a rei dam machmas tashmish, do you have to pay a kesubah? No. Huh? No, you don't have to pay a kesubah. Two reasons. What happens if she became a rei dam machmas tashmish later? Then you have to. Why? Huh? Oh, yeah? It's like a mekach ta'us. When you never got—when you never got... Why did she get hit by a car? Why wouldn't you get a kesubah? What? Okay, well, she's alive, though. I'm saying the point is, like, maybe when you married her she was good. If when you married her she was good, then it's fine, right? And if not, okay. So what's after twenty years?

A suki called nishtapchesa dayu. What? What the suki is? Nishtapchesa dayu. Ah, I know this in Mishnayos. Mishnah Kesubos. If it happened under your watch, not my chayli, then it's your problem, not mine, right? That's only if it's chayli. You know that? No, that's only if it's chayli. Let's say she doesn't want to do melacha for the guy. She doesn't want to do it. She doesn't want to do melacha for the guy. Nishtapchesa dayu. I became crazy under your watch. I became a meyredes under you. It's finished. The marriage was good, now I'm not interested in you anymore. Nishtapchesa dayu, it's your fault, no? No, over here you have to give the kesubah for all those good signs. It has to do with nishtapchesa dayu. You want to bring the Rambam in? What's the case with nishtapchesa dayu? Again, let's say she's a ... nishtapchesa. Hilchos Ishus, perek chaf-hei, halacha tes. It's your mazal. Yeah, bad mazal. My wife turned sour. She was a nice girl and then she went crazy. Went crazy, not literally crazy. Not because of me. Huh? Not because of me, no. If it's not chayli, so what's the shaylah? Nishtapchesa dayu, exactly. I'm asking. According to that, then a person, you know, whatever, he says, You know what? I don't want to divorce her. I don't want to give kesubah. You want to make me pay the kesubah? I'll give it a different way. המדובר האמורים, בשהייתה כך מתחילת נישואיה. מביא לראשונה רדם, אבל עיר לה חולי זה, אבל עיר לה חולי זה אחר שניסת, נסתבכה שדה. לפיכך, אם בא בעלה ומצאו ולא נמצא דם, ואחר כך חזרו לישראל דם מחמת תשמיש, יוציא ויתן כתובה, ולא יחזור לעולם כמו שביארנו. How does this really happen? In עיר לה חולי זה אחר שניסת. How can it happen before she nises? Oh, after the three times. Yeah, three times. ... Very nice Rambam, no? ... אבל עיר לה חולי זה. And if it's not a choli, would it make a difference? Let me ask you a question. Is she a nisha ro'ah dam machmas tashmish, or is it that you can't live with her because there's a chash, maybe she'll...? Is it your din or her problem? Because of your din. Is the ro'ah machmas tashmish? Seems like it's her din, her problem. Second, you're not giving her the kesubah, not because of her problem. Why does the Rambam speak about choli? אבל עיר לה חולי זה אחר שניסת, נסתבכה שדה. Okay, now, there's two Aruch HaShulchans that I want you to do as well. You ready? In Kuf Pei Zayin, se'if gimmel, and in Kuf Pei Zayin, se'if daled. Rafi yet? You writing it down? You writing it down? If it's vestes, we spoke about this. So when there's no dam and there's no vestes, it should be mutar. That's the first question the Aruch HaShulchan asks. The second question he asks is, in all vestes, the way it works is that there's a zman heter. It can't be vestes where there's no zman heter. I love this Aruch HaShulchan. You should know, I would walk a mile to learn by the Aruch HaShulchan. For me to walk a mile is going for you to the moon. Bring the Aruch HaShulchan, we'll read it and then we'll wrap it up. Bring the Aruch HaShulchan. Moishe, Moishe, you hear the question? All vestes, you know the way vestes works? There's a zman mutar, and then there's a zman that the vestes asers. She'ein kein if it's k'seder aser, that's not that one. Who said? Why? What's...

Send it to Rafi. ... Let's. We're almost there. Five more minutes and it's Thursday. Thursday. Come on, let's go. End of the week. Go ahead, see ... read. The od, the od, he has another question. The od. The first question is what? Yemei zekeinah, yemei iburah, there shouldn't be a practice vestus. The od. Why? Only she should tell you. Takes a Brashi and he says, you know, let's erase it all. Vestus? Rabbanan? What are you talking? There's no vestus. This is not new vestus. No, it's a mistake. It's just a wording. They just use the word. You like it? Why can't it be this or this or that? I don't know. I don't know. Why can't it be both at the same time? What? Clearly, what are you saying? Each lady has a different reason. Yeah, she's sick and she has vestus, and this one is... Let me say that it has nothing to do with vestus. The word vestus has nothing to do with this. So yeah, because it can't be. There's no such thing as vestus. It's unbelievable, chashucha. This is an unbelievable ... chashucha. Okay, you know what the explanation to all this is? Are you here listening to me, or are you talking to this guy over here? Explain it. Raffi, it's unbelievable ... chashucha. Nah. All right. Yeah? So listen. So if I ask you on the test, is it about vestus? So you'll say, ... this one, ... the Rashba. According to ... it's all a mistake. You take out, delete, delete the whole thing. It's all a bunch of nonsense, not true. What is it then? What is it then? Just a name. It's called, because by the name it's called vestus. It's not dinei vestus. That's what he says. That's what he says. Okay, I'll tell you what he means. You ready? Okay, let me tell you. There's two yesodos, okay? Listen, listen. There's something called vestus that the veset itself, we told you this, is mechayev the prishah. The pattern is mechayev the prishah. The pattern itself. For example, there's a misgeret, okay? The misgeret is this: yamim which you're allowed. Then there's yomim which are not allowed. You know why the yomim is not allowed? Because that's her misgeres, that's her cycle. Could someone be in a cycle—he's in a cycle of violence, let's say, such a lashon—if he's just killing everybody all the time? Would you call it a cycle of violence? It's not a misgeres, right? It's just killing. It's just killing, right? So it's not a misgeres. The word veset, the word veset is that this is a pattern in her bleeding. This is not a pattern in her bleeding. Why? So let me explain it to you right now. Pattern in her bleeding is that she's not a nidah. A ro'eh machmas tashmish possibly is already a nidah. I hold that that's what the Netziv is saying. See what the Meiri אומר. If you learn the Netziv is saying because it's neged, the ahavah, the asur, I don't think he's saying that. He's not saying that.

You say this woman is a niddah, she's finished. This woman has on herself a niddah. Is a niddah aser because it's her time of veses? Is that the reason to aser her? Or she's a huchzakah liros? Again, there's such a thing called the veses is mechayev the prishah, and there's such a thing that the veses tells me she's a niddah. Let me ask you a question. If someone lives with somebody b'shaas haveses, what kaparah do you have to make? Kares. We learned this, right? Someone lives with an isha b'shaas veses, what kind of kaparah do you need? There's no kares. Amazing. Remember the Tereses Shlom? What did he want? Is it like living with a niddah, or it's like living with a drabbanan and a veses? Which issur are you over? Drabbanan veses. Remember this Tereses Shlom? Did you live with a niddah? It's not so clear. What is veses? Veses doesn't mean you live with a niddah. You live with an isha that you shouldn't be choshesh for niddah. It's a whole different sugya. It's not a chashash niddah. The veses never made her into a niddah. By re'iyah machmas tashmish, the veses made her into a niddah. Zogt der Chashukei Chemed, it has nothing to do with veses; it's the way you understand veses. Veses is the pattern. It tells me, worry that she will see. That's not what it is. It's a reuyah machmas tashmish. Her vest is to teach me she's now a reuyah machmas... It says nothing to do with vestes, really. It sounds like vestes, but it's not vestes. You can live within the pattern. That's called the pattern. That's called the pattern. So then she's a nida. What's not? Maybe, you could be... This could be the deraisa, because vestes. One is not do the other. Rafi, do me a favor. Get up. Repeat. Repeat what... I don't know if you noticed that the words I just said, you hear? ... is what I said a whole week. I said this whole week I've been saying. It's not a chashash. It's not her history that makes her a chashash. She's called a... It's not chashash. It's ... d'Oraisa. It's exactly. I want to ask. Can he just say it over? Let him say it over, because the oilam needs to hear it from Rafi, because for me they don't listen. I'm not good enough. Rafi says, then it'll be good. Go ahead. Yeah, say it. Go ahead. Let's go. What Rebbe was saying... Rafi, bishlama mei, you don't have to have derech eretz for me, but for Rafi, yeah. If reuyah machmas tashmish is a vest, that means there should have been times that she should have been muteres, just like in any other vest. You have b'shaas vest and you have shelo b'shaas vest. What is shelo b'shaas vest? Explain what that means. It means that vest is only telling you the schedule that she's scheduled to become aser in that time. She stay away. But she's בעצם a normal woman. Just certain times are a problem. But if her schedule is that every single time you come up there, she says, By the way, I'm tomei right now. That's last schedule. That's just, she's always... She's not called that fear that she might be a nida. She is. She's a nisha asurah. What are you talking about? And that's called de'oraisa. That's what the Beis Meir means. It's de'oraisa. It's called huchzak. It's something else. It's called something else, called a huchzak. And that's what the Netziv means. Rabosai, let me tell you, it's very rough. This is a rough, this is a rough... Now, over Shabbos, I'm going to figure out how to make it work for you, for the oilem. Test this. What? Test this. Okay, we'll see. Learn this. You know what? Start by at least learning the Shulchan Aruch. Get the siman in the Shulchan Aruch. Finish the whole siman. You know what? We'll see. Maybe I won't even say shiur on Monday. Maybe it's not that important. Main thing is get the fact. There's a lot of Shach. I don't think you'll be able to... You'll never be able to get through all the Shachs on the siman. It's too much, right? On kuf pei-vav, you're not going to be able to do it. So at least get the mechabers, and I'll tell you what you have from that. You know what you have from that? Yeah, kuf pei-zayin. At least get the mechabers and the Rema, and I'll explain to you why. When the shaila comes up, you'll know where to look. At least that.

At least get to that point, because you're not going to be able to do all the shailos. You just won't be able. It's too much. It's way too... We'll spend on it till we're finished. So do me a favor, just do the mechaber, and then we'll see. All right? Maybe we'll have a kitzurim, halachos l'maaseh, come out of the shakla v'tarya, the mechaber and the Rama. I'll figure out what to do with it next week. But at least you know the yesod, and then you'll know at least the mechaber and the Rama, and then we'll see. Okay? Good? Good. You got to tell what you want to say. I want to say that she's a vadai nida. I want to say that accordingly, if she was tovelet, then touching her, passing thing is allowed until she's nida. That's number one. Even more so, if she nida and contact with the first moment that he goes in, so maybe it takes a minute, it takes five seconds. So since he's going to a vadai nida, but that's not... give it the five seconds, so then it's good. First of all, he could pass with her, he could live with her, not be with her, and that's... We'll talk about this. It's exactly what I want. Close it. I don't know how to stop it.