Hilchos Niddah: Harchakos Between Husband and Wife, Kirvah, and Familiarity

Transcript

Chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto bimei tumaso, ad shetispor v'titvol. פירוש from the isha. What does he mean by being poresh? Does he mean tashmish? Does he mean that you can't live with your wife bimei tumaso? So what's the chiddush? By the time Kuv Tzadik Hei comes around, you should have known that. So what's the chayav adam? Chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto bimei tumaso. So to learn k'pshuto, that it means tashmish, it's almost not possible, because you don't need a Shulchan Aruch for that. You think anybody here feels that they need the Shulchan Aruch to teach them that you can't live with your wife in niddah after learning till Kuv Tzadik Hei? I don't think so, right? So then what is he referring to, the Shulchan Aruch, lifrosh? So I have two pshatim. The first pshat I would say is, I saw that Acharonim, by the Shulchan makes mention to it from the Tzemach Tzedek, that he was not referring to prisha tashmish, but rather prisha harchakos. Chayav adam lifrosh means harchakos. You got to separate yourself, ki'ilu it would have said larchik es atzmecha. It doesn't mean prisha mitashmish. Another pshat I would have said: Chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto bimei tumah. Doesn't mean necessarily harchakos; it could mean tashmish. The reason why he puts it together is because it's the same halacha, the same way. Chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto. So meileh, all these dinim are nichlal. All the dinim we're going to learn, all the harchakos that are going to be taught are nichlal, included in prisha min ha'isha. Let me repeat what I just said, and the reason why I'm going to repeat it is because that's the yesod, the yesod of this siman I just said in two sentences. I didn't make it glamorous. I didn't make it that it's earth-shattering. It sounds like I'm saying simple things, but it's very well chosen, my words. I chose my words particularly because the yesodos of this siman are in these two sentences. Now let me begin again. Chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto. Pashut, the translation is prisha mitashmish. That's the simple translation. The question, of course, is—I think we know that. So what is the Shulchan Aruch about? And not only that, what's the next line? Ad shetispor v'titvol, and then the Rema says, afilu shosas zman aruch v'lo tavlah. What's the Rema—what, that without tevilah you thought it would become mutar? I mean, what is it? If the Rema means to go back on the Mechaber, and the Mechaber means prisha from tashmish, then the Rema for sure has nothing to say, nothing to offer. How many, is zeramah have anything to offer? Is mamash nothing to offer. What's he telling me, that she's a nidah, kol zman you go to the mikveh? That's for sure. Afilu shases zman aruch, so what, it becomes better? Well, what, it disintegrates the tumah? I mean, what is this? And if you mean to tell me hilchos nidah, that you can't have, that the nidah falls off without a tevilah, so that's the beginning of hilchos nidah. I mean, what are you talking about now? It's peshat dike rama. So therefore, there's another way to learn this mechaber, that it's not prishah mitashmish, but rather he means prishah, harchakos. You have to further yourself. To be poresh is a lashon of furthering, not only to separate. Separation could also mean separate far. That's also separation. And then the Rama, we have to, you know, understand what does he want, zman aruch. I have a pshat in it, but al kol panim that's the other way to learn. And like I said, the Badei HaShulchan quotes the Tzemach Tzedek that learns that way. There is another way to learn this, and I would say the lomdish way of learning the Shulchan Aruch, that chayav adam lifrosh, it's taka tashmish, and included in that are all the harchakos. The prishah mitashmish is mechayev the prishah.

MiTashmish is the root reason for the harchakos. It's another form of prisha miTashmish. If you want to know why I say this, because don't forget, harchakos are things that are maybe lidei. They're maybe lidei. So could be in Hilchos prishas Tashmish, there's halacha of harchakah meha'isha. This is yesodos. Now let's do a little bit learning. Yeah. What I'm saying is that it's possible that it's nichlal in prisha miTashmish. You know what prisha miTashmish means? Tashmish, anything that will lead to tashmish. Don't forget there's halachos of schar, schar minah u'nezira. Isurim is not just, I could do it to the, like by Pesach, could I eat chametz mamash to the last second? No. There's zmanim of— so I shouldn't come, I shouldn't follow into the issur. So the prisha miTashmish is mechayev separation from tashmish, mechayev separation. And something that will cause tashmish is already in the issur and the din of prisha miTashmish. Now, this is yesodos. Let's do a little learning now. The word chayiv, the word chayiv, does it— pas, the Yiddish word is pas— does it apply, chayiv on harchakos? Chayiv is usually on issurim. Shulchan Aruch usually, when he has dinim d'Rabbanan that you have to do, uses which lashon? Tzarich. Yesh. What is the word chayiv? Chayiv is usually— usually. It could be that the Mechaber felt that he wanted to use a strong language here too. What do I mean? Because if he means prisha mi'tashmish, so the word chayiv is right. Chayiv, adam lifrosh me'ishto, tashmish. He's not allowed to live with her. There's nothing more to talk about. But if he means chayiv, that what? That there's halacha of prisha, harchakos. Harchakos is only a din d'Rabbanan. So should he use the word chayiv, or should he use tzarich adam? Yesh l'adam... Unless, what I'm thinking, the word chayiv is chamur. I want to know if the harchakos, which we'll soon see, is it d'Rabbanan? Is it d'Oraisa? It's a machlokes Rishonim. There are different levels to harchakos. For example, negi'ah, according to the Rambam, is harchakah which is d'Oraisa, and the other harchakos, hoshatah, is only d'Rabbanan. But according to the Ramban, they're all d'Rabbanan. All the harchakos are only d'Rabbanan. My klar is, A, let's say it's d'Rabbanan, is it a chamurdike d'Rabbanan maybe, and that's why the Mechaber used the word chayiv? That is my question that I'd like to ponder. I'd like to ponder that when we come to this siman, should we view it in light of kula or chumra? What do you say, Ilan? Harchakos is a serious thing, or is harchakos like any other d'Rabbanan? Takanah d'Rabbanan. You know, there's such a thing as issurim d'Rabbanan, there's such a thing as takanos d'Rabbanan, there's such a thing as harchakos d'Rabbanan. Which d'Rabbanan is how chamur? So maybe chayiv. So in other words, if it's going on the bi'ah... So then now you understand the word chai, but if it's גרם the harchakah, what's the chai? Maybe he's trying to put down that it's very chamur. And I'll tell you why I'm saying. The Gemara in Shabbos, daf yud-gimmel amud aleph. The Gemara says the story of a talmid chacham that died young. His wife obviously mourned him very much, so she went to the beis medrash, and she said he was a tzaddik, why did he die? So everybody knows the Gemara, I'm sure those sefarim quote it. And they asked, What's... chas v'shalom, he would never touch me. What about bimei leivan, the time that it was shivah nekiyim? So the Gemara says that he slept with me in the same bed, and this, b'kiruv basar. Baruch HaMakom shehargo, shelo nisa panim, because Hashem didn't show any favoritism. It says in the pasuk, V'ishah b'nidas tumasah lo sikrav. Now, did he mamash sleep b'kiruv basar? The Gemara says, chas v'shalom, he didn't sleep b'kiruv basar, because that's not allowed, especially according to the Rambam, it's mamash d'Oraisa, so she wouldn't come and talk about how great of a tzaddik he is. So the Gemara says, What, how did he sleep? They slept with a mechitzah, but it was on the same bed, which is the other harchakos, not the negi'ah harchakos, but the further, the further level, the lower level of harchakos, right?

Have to sleep on the same bed, even though they're not touching each other. Yet, the Gemara says shelo nisa panim, and he was over on what it says in the pasuk, v'el ishah b'nidas tumasah lo sikrav. What do you mean? He wasn't over lo sikrav. What kind of a pasuk could he be over? There's no pasuk on that. Unless you learn that the lo sikrav, the Torah wrote a word which could be defined broadly, and anything which is included in tikrav, and the Rabbanan have the koach to decide what. I'm not saying it's not the Rabbanan. I'm not telling you you're going to be chayav malkus, but it's a chumrah d'Rabbanan, because it's Rabbanan defining the guidelines, giving us the guidelines, the siyagim of what's called lo sikrav. You remember the Gemara? Yeah. You remember that the Gemara quotes the pasuk lo sikrav? You understand that lo sikrav is d'Oraisa, and the issurim that he did is what? The Rabbanan. Did he sleep mamash b'kiruv basar? So what kind of a chachamim could come and say, He's a horrible rasha, he was over on the pasuk? What kind of pasuk was he over? If anything, you tell the woman he wasn't over; it was Rabbanan, maybe he didn't know. I mean, what are you doing? Um, I don't know. Why would you do that? Why would you come and tell a woman that he was over on a pasuk when there's no such pasuk? And the answer might be, like what we're speaking, lo sikrav. What does lo sikrav mean? You can't come close. And the Chachamim defined to us what's called lo sikra, which is the pshat I was telling you, chayav lifrosh, separation. It's taka the issur prishah. It's taka the din prishah mitashmish. But darchakus, we're going to learn are a definition, the Chachamim's guidelines for what's called prishah. I see, Rabbi Fall, you're looking up the Gemara. Go ahead. What does the Gemara say? I understand. The Gemara says, yeah. Yeah, so that's how I learned the Gemara. I learned because that was the maskanah. I mean, that's the way everybody learns the Gemara. The Gemara is saying at the end, chas v'shalom, it wasn't a rasha, so he didn't sleep b'kiruv basar. Azei a mechaber learned the Gemara. Okay, so your homework for today is to not just learn the Gemara, because you might learn it like you're learning it now. So your homework is to learn the Gemara the right way, like I'm teaching you. So that's your homework for today. The Gemara l'maskanah says chas v'shalom, he slept b'keter. He slept on the same bed without kiruv basar. So why would you quote a pasuk? What do you do? And the teretz is this yesod, and that's pshat in the Mechaber, that the Mechaber is saying, chayav adam lifrosh. There's a din prishah, lo sikrav. And we don't mean tashmish. I need to tell me that you can't live with a woman nida? That's a din in Shulchan Aruch, chas v'shalom. In kuf tzadik hei, the Mechaber has to tell me that? The Mechaber's teaching me what is called prishah, and the Chachamim gave guidelines. For what's called prisha, and what would be the nafkamina? The nafkamina is that possibly, possibly, the harchakos are more chamur than just a plain, yeah, a plain derabbanan. I'm going to tell you one more angle of halacha which might come out a nafkamina if there's a chiyuv adam, a halacha of chayav adam that the Mechaber is posak, in general, that a person's chayav lifrosh me'ishto. And that is, does a person have to just keep the harchakos and that's all? Or there is a din chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto, to be marchik himself from his wife at those times, and then the chachamim came and said what they are. Very big difference. What happens if you find something that maybe it's a good harchakah, but it's not brought down in Shulchan Aruch, and the reason why the Shulchan Aruch didn't bring it down, because they're not going to bring down your story. They're not going to write one day there's going to be a guy called so-and-so and he's going to have this. They gave examples, and they gave, let's say, you're doing yourself. That is a very interesting she'eilah. Now, there is Gra, the Ramban, and an Or Zarua that takke says this yesod, that it's important.

To be marchik in everything, and whatever you're marchik, the more the better, the more the merrier. It's a lashon from Rabbeinu, I think the Baal HaShulchan even quotes it, the poskim quote it, that the more the merrier. All right? Let's say it's true. So l'choira, in lomdus it might have what to do with what we're speaking. If chayiv adam lifrosh me'ishto, and lifrosh doesn't mean tashmish, but lifrosh means in general a person has to be poresh, so there's a general rule of lo sikrav. Then there's halachos: what, how, what, how. So then do it, because there's a halacha of chayiv adam lifrosh. Now, is it earth-shattering what we're saying now? No. The diyuk, we could say yes, no, it is a diyuk. It's not — I don't really care — but the yesod is interesting. Would there be a din of harchakos, chutz from what the chachamim set up? Because maybe there's bichlal a halacha to be marchik yourself from your ishto. We're soon going to learn that even maybe sicha b'teilah, regular stam shmoozing, stam — maybe that's also. The Goyen brings down, lo yischaik. B'avos d'Rab Noson, perek beis, halacha aleph, v'isha b'nidah tumasah lo sikrav. So he brings the pasuk: Yachel yevamchah, v'yinashkecha, v'yadaber imah dvarim b'teilim. Talmud lomar lo sikrav. Now, dvarim b'teilim doesn't necessarily have to mean dvarim shemargilim. When it says in the Mishnah — the Gemara even says, the Mishnah over there says that they're going to tell you the speech that you're going to talk, the dvarim b'teilim, omrim l'adam ma sichach — now that doesn't have to be dvarim shemargilim midei aveirah; it could be stam dvarim b'teilim. Anything. And where does the Mishnah bring it from? Avister of Nasan, from the pasuk, lo yisekrav, huh? See what we're saying? So this is something which is, now, like, listen, you know, you guys know me for years already, so I don't have to explain to you my derech. But we have a very chashuvi ... and I think it's important for you to understand our derech. What is our derech? I push the envelope. I want you to think. I want you to clear. I want you to think out of the box. You want to think in the box, you have all the sefarim. You can just look it up. It says ... okay, good. And I'm not telling you you shouldn't do that. But you're never going to become a posek that way. A posek has to think original. He has to have a mind to think, let's see, maybe, maybe, maybe there's a tzad kula. Maybe there's a tzad chumra that nobody saw. Let's—what's the word I'm looking for?—let's squeeze the information that's given. Let's take it apart. Let's analyze what it says. We're analyzing. Chayav adam lifrosh, that everybody learns it means bi'ah. It's very difficult to learn that. And then I found in the Badei HaShulchan, like I tell you, brings from the Tzemach Tzedek, it can't mean that. It doesn't make sense. There's no Shulchan Aruch like that. So it has to mean that there's a din harchakah. Oh, chayav adam—so what do you say? Just say, chayav adam lo lischok v'lo l'yaker rosho. Oh, it's an introduction. He's just introducing, right? You learn it from a pasuk. The goyen right away quotes me, V'alisha beni's tumaso lo sikrav. The Gemara in Shabbos comes along and tells me that they said he was over on a pasuk. So the harchakos are a broader term, or what do we call it, a broader scope into kiruv lo sikrav, because it doesn't say you're not allowed to be bo'el an niddah. It says, lo sikrav. Pasuk never said bi'ah. It says, lo sikrav. So there's a din perisha. Sikrav, don't come close. You have to stay away. Now the chachamim defined to us, but ein hachanami, if you find something else which you feel would be a good harchakah, we're going to discuss what's called a good harchakah. Some people can be so crazy that they just stay away from their wives completely. What do you call a good harchakah? A guy's going to come and say, you know, I don't come home at all at night because it's the best harchakah, the best... That's not harchakah. This harchakah, the day institute, does not apply. We're going to discuss that. That's exactly why we sit here. That's, see, that's called pushing the envelopes, exactly what I want to discuss. What happens, and we're going to discuss cases where the harchakah doesn't apply to you. It just doesn't apply to you. We'll soon see, listen. We did page one. There's 15 more to go on this se'if, just on this se'if. We just finished page one, one and a half. There's still 15 more to go. So slowly, we're going to go through it, thinking, analyzing the din in the Shulchan Aruch. Okay. So now we've established that could...

There's harchakos, and that's it. Or it could be that there's a din to be poresh, and then it leaves room for you to fit in harchakos. Poskim don't use this nusach, like we hang around Rav Chatzkel, and the poskim that I hung around to get, you know, shimush from, with chacham asi, the asi, and that's it, you know. It's not muchach, it's not mashma that. It's mashma from the first Ramban, first Ramban, first arza rua. There is room for a person to... No, they hold a big yesod. If it wasn't what chacham asi, you're not mechuyav. You see, you know what your problem is? You don't know what margolavera is. You've decided margolavera is going to do it. I don't know if that's what it means either. We're going to learn that. That's page five. That's what we're going to discuss. Can we wait? First let me just tell you this: should I make my own list? And the answer is, poskim say no. Rama says yes, and I believe it has to do with how you learn the first. Once you learn the first seif clearly, you start to think maybe there is room for saying, you know what, I should make my own list, because the whole thing is about prishah, and chacham gave me guidelines, that's all, but it doesn't mean that that's all it is. Okay. Keep this in mind. Should I add, or it's what the chacham said, I'm not mechuyav for more. Now, what does it mean, bimei tumasah, in her days of tumah? So we did chayav adam... The word chayiv we just did. Chayiv means strongly. It doesn't mean tzarich, but chayiv. Adam, I guess it's adam v'lo beheima. I don't think it applies to beheima. Adam v'lo akum, I don't think it applies to a guy. Okay. Lifrosh, we explained that the word poresh can mean, tashrus poresh can mean what? Poresh can mean harchakah, bimei tumasa. What is that, bimei tumasa? Now, a woman can be tamei for many reasons. She can be tamei, A, d'Oraisa, when she's a nida. She can be tamei d'Rabbanan when there's a kesem. Does it apply to both? L'choira it does. Poskim say it does. You look at the Badei HaShulchan, he'll bring down right away, bein bein. It makes no difference. So I don't need that, right? Because you don't need me for that, because you could have seen that in every sefer. Tumah means anything. How about what you do need me for? What about if it's a safek tumah? Oh, very good, very nice. Let's say you have a safek. Your wife comes home and says, You know, I saw the, I don't know, the color, I don't know. So you have to go ask the rav. So now that you found it in that book, you don't need me. Okay, so get this, all right? You hear what I want? Does bimei tumasa mean any time that you can't live with her? Bimei tumasa is when she's established tamei. We're going to discuss this as poskim, the achro, how to pasken this shaila, a little later on in the shiur, because I still want to learn the text with you, okay? So bimei tumasa, bimei tumasa, right, is, right, bimei tumasa means d'Oraisa, d'Rabbanan. Okay, we'll let you have that, all right? It doesn't have to mean dafka bimei tumasa d'Oraisa, all right. But, but it doesn't talk about safek. Maybe it's only when it's muchlat, once she's already established. But if you don't know, or I'll give you another example. What happens if it's the day that she's supposed to see? What happens if it's the day, for example, the onah, the day of the onah? Does the harchakos apply? So that's going to be a mefurash in the Shulchan Aruch. But the point is, what does bimei tumas mean? What does it mean? Now, if lo sikrav means you're not allowed to come to a nida and you're not allowed to get closer, and that's the mekor of the harchakos, so on a din d'rabbanan we could put it back into the pasuk. That's interesting. If it's based on a pasuk, lo sikrav, so then I could start to say, wait a minute, maybe when it's a d'rabbanan it doesn't really apply. I don't know. Maybe, I mean, maybe you have to do it anyway, but it's not the chomer — that's what I mean — it's not the chomer of the lo sikrav that we're talking about. We base that there's a chomer to harchakos because it's chayav adam lifrosh because there's a pasuk, lo sikrav. But wait a minute, but the pasuk doesn't call this a nida. But if you learn that it's nothing to do necessarily with lo sikrav, it's only an asmachta, and there's a din harchakah mid'rabbanan, and that harchakah is a chamurdike harchakah anyway.

So if she's a nidah d'rabbanan, maybe l'choira it makes no difference. Or we could say, no, listen, if it's only a d'rabbanan anyway, so a d'rabbanan, harchakah, d'rabbanan, trei d'rabbanan, it's not so chamur. I don't know, it's a good question. In other words, I know that when you read it, you're going to right away get from the poskim, d'rabbanan d'oraisa. But I don't know for sure you have, and what I expect you get either on your own or from the shiur, how chamur is those harchakos, or is there a difference? Maybe there's no difference. Maybe just like there's a din harchakah by d'oraisa, and as chamur as lo sikrav, the pasuk, so maybe hu hadin by the d'rabbanan. I don't know. I mean, I do know, but I'm saying is you have to work on it. It has to be dealt with. What's the nafka mina? You'll soon see when you start learning Kuf Tzadik Hei, there are cases maybe it could be more meikel, different type of harchakos. So let's discuss how chamur, how chamur is bimei tumah even on a kesem, that it's even on a kesem, I'm not going to argue with anybody. The only thing I'm going to do is I'll ask you when it's a safek. That's one shaila. A second shaila, even on a kesem, how chamur is it? Is it with the chumra of chayav adam and the guy has to die for that? I want to know if the Gemara Yud-Gimmel, that the guy died for it, the Talmud Chacham, did he die by a nidah or a kesem also? You know, there's two types of kesem. You can come to a rav, it's a kesem and he's mesupak, and he paskens on the kesem l'chumra for whatever reasons he had. All right? So I'm asking, let's say the rav paskened b'miyos toiv. Also on that, there's a din of harchakah, in case you don't keep it, you're chayav misah, you're gonna die for it? I don't know. You have to know. It's an interesting ha'arah. What is it called? Bimei tumasah. Okay. Now let's learn the next piece of the Rama. So we did, chayav adam lifrosh me'ishto bimei tumasah ad shetispor v'titvol. Now, the tispor is a little bit of chiddush. I don't know, he's telling me the halachos of Shivah Nekiyim, k'vesh chiddush. All right. By kuf tzadi-kei, you don't know that you have to count days and go to the mikveh? K'vesh. All right. I don't know, I don't know. The word tispor is a little bit strange here. But all right. Now let's learn the Rama. With everything I told you, I have a shtikel pshat in the Rama. You ready? Afilu shasas zman aruch v'lo tavlah, tamid hi b'nidasah ad shetitbol. So we ask, yeah? Rama, what? What? Where? What are you talking— we don't know this. Out of the picture. Now you see, you see? You see why you come here to this yeshiva? Or I would say even a different way. Let's say for a year she didn't go to the mikveh. Doesn't mikveh— what shayach? We don't live together, come on. We don't shayach to each other. So maybe there's no harchakos. Afilu shasas zman aruch v'lo tavlah. Took a long time. So you see that we're able to hold out. You see we're able to hold out. So maybe there's no problem of perish, harchakah. Kamashmalan, tamid hi b'nidasah, and there's halachah of harchakah. No, you like it? It's a lot better than the pshat the Badei HaShulchan says. Everybody look at what the Badei HaShulchan said. And I don't like to argue the Badei... I don't like to argue with gedolim, people who are much bigger than me. But I like my pshat a lot better. After learning the beginning of the Shulchan Aruch, he says an interesting pshat. He wants to say—it's a very simple thing—this Ramah is nothing. He's not saying anything. It's just the stam... in case you didn't go to mikveh, still a nida. Yeah, okay, we know that. By kuf tzadi you don't know that? Ramah, you have to add to the Mechaber. Well, what are you adding? What did the Mechaber not say? So the Badei HaShulchan says a pshat. Yeah, the Badei HaShulchan says a pshat that sometimes a woman didn't go to the mikveh because she's an ones. She didn't find the mikveh around, and then weeks are going by, and achvei... So you would say maybe it's mutar, kamashmalan it's not mutar. What does that mean? You would think because mutar because she has no choice, she can't go to the mikveh. I don't know. Read it. That's what he says. I don't know. And he doesn't quote anybody because it's his own vort. He's definitely bothered by this kashya. What is this Ramah talking about? I understand. Slowly. Go ahead. Yeah, say it over. Right, that's what it means.

She didn't go because of a sakana. There's a baby. Let's be matir her. Let's say, you know what? I don't know. That's not a reason to be matir. I mean, if you feel that she might come to live with her and she's a niddah, so what are you going to do? Because sakana. So therefore we should come and say there's no harchakah? I don't even know what he's talking about. I have no idea what he's talking about. Maybe it's being lefukei the case where they say that they're in a goyishe neighborhood. There's no idea where they're... Right, you're right. It's all good. At the end of the day, so what's your... So I would think what? Repeat after me. I would think that let's be matir that harchakah. No, you might think the guy could help her go into the mikveh. He could help her go into the mikveh. Maybe he also... No. I mean, it's not. That's not what he's talking about. That's not what he's talking about. But back on this halacha, this halacha, l'yischaik, l'yakel, you would say it becomes mutar. Why would I say it's... I don't understand. It's weak. It's very weak. I don't think you understand what you're saying. Why would I... What, the Ramban and the Rama has to come in? What? The way we're learning is davar gishmak. If the whole pshat is you might come to hergel aveirah, what happens in a case where you see it's not happening? You're going to make it weaker, nothing happened. There's no problem. You see it's not happening. What does that mean? It means exactly what I just said. That if a woman goes, if it didn't happen today, tomorrow it might happen, or five minutes later, there's no... You see that they're able to control yourself. You see this. So go speak to somebody who knows this. I don't... Okay, now, I don't know. Whatever it is, the Ramo is saying something, and even if it's zman aruch... So you know what? Let's forget about all these halachos. It's not negea so much. Kamashmalan, it doesn't make a difference how long it is. Tamid hi b'nidasa. That's the halacha. No matter how long, no matter when it is. And we're still going to see cases where a woman doesn't go to the mikveh for a year. For a whole year, a woman couldn't go to the mikveh. Menopause. A woman has menopause, it's almost a whole year that she doesn't go to the mikveh. Bleeding, menopause. Menopause. Menopause. Chadoshim, chadoshim kacha. Okay. Now, let's continue. So we've now established that there's a halacha, harchakos. Maybe it has to do with you shouldn't come to do an aveirah. Even if we're possibly, we see that you don't have the problem. You're able to stay away from the woman. Af al pi kein, there's halacha, anidah, chayav lifrosh, there's a deprisha. Okay. Let's clarify a shaila. If you learn that it goes back to the pasuk, is the lo sikrav only because the bi'ah will come? Or the lo sikrav is b'etzem asur? If you learn it's a din d'rabbanan, so it's only for that reason. If it's a din d'rabbanan, it's only as a siyag. But if it's a taich, translation of the pasuk of lo sikrav... So, the Torah assered not just the bi'ah, but any kirvah. Maybe it's a ta'am in the mikra. Shh. You have to calm down. Please calm down. Maybe lo sikrav in itself is, for example, you know the famous thing, hirhurim is asur. So everybody asks, אי הכי הקדוש ברוך הוא מצטרף מחשבה למעשה? What's the teretz? It's a shtus kasha. Why? Because where the issur is the issur, and you're thinking about doing the issur, that's called machshavah l'maaseh. Where the issur is the hirhur itself, what is the issur of lo sikrav? Is it the bi'ah, and the lo sikrav is not to come to the bi'ah? Or even the lo sikrav itself already? לאישה בנידתה. It never said you now have bi'ah; it says you now'll be kareis. I don't know. Again, I'm saying, you have to know this. For example, according to the Rambam, if you touch her, you chayav malkus. I don't know. Maybe because that itself is an issur. I don't know. I do know this is reid, Rishonim, Acharonim. I'm giving to you b'kitzur. Okay. That's why I'm saying, is it possible that even where the ta'am doesn't apply, but there's still an issur kirvah, even if it's not going to be something that's going to come to bi'ah.

The kirv itself is aser. Or even if the taam doesn't apply, lo plug. Even where the taam doesn't apply, maybe it will apply. Maybe—you're right, it doesn't apply, but it'll come to the... You never know what, like he said, one minute like this and the next minute something else. We're going to discuss this in light of the halacha l'maaseh. Is lo sikrav b'etzem? Is lo sikrav lo plug? Or is lo sikrav because it's going to bring lidei? Okay? Again, lo sikrav b'etzem. Now again, the pasuk—not the pasuk, forget right now the pasuk—is the problem of all these arayos b'etzem? Are the problems of all these arayos lo plug? Are the problems of all these arayos that it's going to be meivi lidei? Lo plug b'etzem. No, b'etzem means you're not allowed to have certain close relations with a niddah. It doesn't mean only bi'ah; it means even touching her is not allowed. You see a point to the Rambam. He oiver an issur d'Oraisa for it; you get malkus for it. B'etzem, you're not allowed. It has nothing to do with it might come lidei bi'ah. You can say maybe not; you can say it's ta'am d'kra. Again, but it's not muchach. Let me tell you, I learned the sugya. There's—you can learn it, believe me—there's raayos to this way and that way, there's raayos, but I'm just, l'maaseh, at the end, what are we supposed to say, halacha l'maaseh, when we learn this seif? Are arayos b'etzem aser? Especially the negiah ones. Are arayos—pshat is, might not apply to you that you will—or let's learn it the other way, you know, let's do it the other way. Are arayos b'etzem... Archak is only a komli day. I, what happens in case not, lo plug. Okay, they closed it because you put it back on. Now, lo yischaik v'lo yeikel rosh imah. So the first thing the Shulchan Aruch tells me, which is interesting, he didn't start right away with touching her and, and, and, and, and passing her, and the first thing. Isn't it interesting that the first example that the Shulchan Aruch brings is laughter? Interesting. Is it because it's worse? Is it because it's the most common? I think the pshat is because it's the most definitive of the halacha. The yesod of the halacha is in lo yischaik v'lo yeikel rosh. Afilu bidvarim. Exactly. We're going to talk about this, Rebbe. Again, I mean, you want to talk about archakos. Jokes is the biggest harchakah. I thought the passing is worse. I thought a lot of them are much worse in my mind. No? So either you could come and say like I said. Try not to help me with the shiur, because I said that, so try, let's try to function as a shiur. Maybe the pshat is because this is dvarim ham... In other words, this is the first step. The Gemara says, schok and then aveirah, so. So, schayk is the first step in the Shulchan Aruch. Someone says pshat over there, why is schayk first? You know, the Gemara says, schayk, margilin es adam lidei aveirah. Okay, so maybe it's the first step before. Or, laniyas da'ati, he's telling you that din prishah is about the first step before. The din prishah. You notice he says, shemo yargil la'aveirah. You know, not to touch a nida could be b'etzem. Certain harchakos are b'etzem a kirvah. Then there's certain harchakos which are yargil la'aveirah, yargil la'aveirah. And that's why the Shulchan Aruch brings it first, and let's discuss it, okay? So let's take it apart now. So first of all, what does lo yischak mean? No jokes. What does lo yeikel rosho mean? Same thing, no? Unless it's one word, really. It's supposed to be read together, because the word imo comes afterwards, lo yischak v'lo yeikel. Notice, what happens if you make jokes and they're not funny? No, I don't know.

Well, maybe, well, maybe a meikel, right, but it's not a joke. I don't know. Maybe he needs two leshonos, yeikel and yitzchak, no? I don't know. Tzchok v'simcha. Yeah, we spoke about it, the two leshonos. What do you say, layeikel v'lo yitzchak? Okay. So that's the first question. What's called meikel and what's called yitzchak? You know, it's very nice to say it broad, with a broad brush, layeikel v'lo yitzchak. You know how many questions people come to ask about this halacha? What does that mean? Let's break it down. What does it mean? You know, people ask, am I allowed to watch television together? What does the word ima mean? No, what does the word ima mean? Okay, if you hold you're allowed to watch television, okay, I don't want to get involved in that. I once told this to you, that Rav Soloveitchik, they asked Rav Soloveitchik — it's brought down in the peninim, Rav Shechter brings it down — if you're allowed to go to the movies Shavuos by night. Shavuos? Shavuos, but not by day, because by day is already the taanis. Are you allowed to go the night of Shavuos to a thing, right? So he goes through a whole shtikel Torah, the taanis starts early. Remember I showed this to you. I said, he doesn't answer you're allowed to go to the movies. That's not the answer. If you went to a — that's what he asked. That's not why. Whatever it is, could you not ruin my shiur? What are you ruining my shiur for? What do you want? What are you doing? It's not a seminar over here. The point being, I don't want to get involved, yeah television, not television. That's not my story about television, okay? But what does the word ima mean? So let's write this down. Lo yeikel, tzorichiyin, what does it mean? What does it mean? Lo yischak, what does it mean? Maybe tachbeh. What if the joke's not funny? I don't know. What does lo yischak—what does the word imo mean? Imo means me and you together. What about if it's—we're in together in a situation where there's schok and kalus rosh. Can't go to work. A comedy show together? Maybe, I don't know. I mean, it's halacha l'maaseh. I'm not trying to entertain you. I want a halacha here. Lo yeikel rosho imo. Imo means me and you together. It means I have to make the joke with you. What happens if the joke is not with us, but we went together to see it? We're sitting at it in front of a television, and there's a comedy show. You're allowed or you're not allowed? It's a nice hora. Okay. Okay. How about lo yischak, schok which brings aveirah? What about schok that doesn't bring aveirah? For example, for example, he makes Polish jokes. What does it have to do with aveirah? He makes jokes. Make a joke. He makes a funny joke about the food. It's going to be margil l'aveirah? I don't know. Or the pshat is, it has to do with yeikel rosho, to make it light, which means does a person have to come home, bimei niddah, and be serious? Is that what it means? Could be. Could be when he talks to his wife, bimei niddah, he has to be a little more stern, and when it's not bimei niddah, he could be a little more... Ritzini, ritzini, stern, serious. Mashenkein when it comes, bimei, what you call it, the atmosphere could be s'chik and kalus rosh. Now, that is the lashon of the Shach and Acharonim, that a b'schok hameivi lidei. There's different type of jokes. I guess it means dirty jokes. It means things which are not clean, or things which make ishus jokes. Maybe that's what it means. Mashenkein regular jokes, maybe it's not aser. This is a good shaila. This is all under the heading of lo yischok v'lo yeikal rosho. He's from Africa. He didn't take the cold, you know. All right. It's okay, you were caught in the act. You see, they know who to send, you understand? They send you because the thing is like, they're afraid if they send somebody, I'm going to kill them. You I can't tell you not. Make it a little—it is getting cold in here because I see everybody's putting on their coats and their scarves and their mittens. So make it a little—okay, no problem. I don't know. You thought. Who cares? I mean, you thought. I don't know, I don't know. How about knowing? It's very nice to think. The question is, what is—

The question is, what does it mean? All right? Does lo yeikal mean atmosphere? Does lo yeikal mean a form of joke, which is ishus, not clear in the Shulchan Aruch? And what does ima mean? Okay. It's a taina that it's important to be magdir the word shema yargil la'aveira. Does yargil mean that the joke is going to bring that the next step is the aveira, or it's the atmosphere which will cause in the next step? It doesn't have to be one directly to the other. In English we say one thing leads to another. Does yargil, l'choira, which is the pashut pshat of yargil, one thing leads to another. So then it comes out that it's very chomer. The way we're learning yargil, it's a lot more chomer. Pashut you would say it has to be things which will... Now, but if it's true what we're translating the word yargil, then I'm a big machmir. People are not going to want to come to ask me she'eilos on these halachos, because the way I'm learning yargil is the atmosphere, to create an atmosphere of—what's the word in English that I'm looking for where it's lax? No, not lax. Give me a better word, where it's lax, a lax situation. Maybe it's taka asur. So let's keep this as a—what do we call that?—as more room for investigation, because I don't want to be a machmir and then I'm going to lose all my customers for shailos. All right? So let's say tzarich iyun. Does yargil mean that this leads to this, or does yargil mean— Things about an atmosphere, an atmosphere of lightheadedness, of lax, and one thing leads to another. Now let's see what the Rambam means. Comes along the Rambam and he says, Afilu b'dvarim. Why not? What do you want? What do you think? Make jokes with your eyes and your ears and your nose? It's possible. You know, winking and mechveis and hand motions. So the havamina was, dvarim is better or worse? I don't know what do you want. Or does—a better question: does the Mechaber argue with that? Does the Mechaber hold that dvarim is mutar? Maybe he meant to say was. I don't know. I'm saying a big kula now. Maybe the Mechaber held in action, you know. But if a person makes a joke, who said? Well, a joke is going to lead to who knows what. I don't know. It's a very nice shaila. Let's say you make a lax situation in talk, but that's normal. I was clarifying this years ago. Maybe the Mechaber is not telling you you're not supposed to be not normal during these days. You can make jokes, especially if you always make jokes. Now, if you're making jokes which entice, which lead to, okay, let's be together, so then ein hachanami, I don't see the chiddush in dvarim. But the way we're learning dvarim, it doesn't mean—it just means to make a situation where it's light. So possibly, dvarim in the Mechaber holds is not such a big problem. It's very big chiddush. Rabbi, I want to say a chiddush. You ready? I want to know what the Rambam wants, afilu b'dvarim. You know how to make jokes without dvarim. The only one that makes jokes without dvarim is a mind. A mind makes jokes without dvarim, and it's very uncommon to have minds. So what does he mean exactly? Chaykes lightheadedness. So what do you mean by dvarim, lafukei what? I mean, dvarim. What's of course dvarim? I mean, what's the chiddush of the Rama? Does the mechaber cholek on the Rama? Maybe he's just mefaresh the mechaber. Maybe the mechaber didn't hold of dvarim. I don't know. What does it mean? So I want to say an interesting chiddush. Let's say a person always makes it lightheaded in the house. He makes the situation easy. That's what he does always, okay? Now, what happens is, should he come home and, like I say, now she needs to be very serious. Well, maybe that's not a problem. Why not? Because it's not jokes, which make a pleasant atmosphere. So the Rama is coming along and saying, even b'dvarim, the mechaber held lo yeikal rosho means maybe to do activities, to do activities, play cards, like you said, drinking wine, to have talk which is gishmak. Maybe it's no issur, and the Rama is cholek and says even b'dvarim. What do you ta'ina? You don't know. Aha. No, but you see, I'm clarifying what the Shema Yargil is. If the—

Shema yargil is that one thing leads to another. So I don't know, does it taka lead one thing to another? Every time there's a light gishmak atmosphere in the house, one thing leads to another? Who said? Who said? Okay, so this is what I want from you, page five. We're holding, we have ten more pages to go and 45 more minutes to talk. So right now I want—he's getting scared, I can't help it. This is what it is. This yeshiva is about hours and hours of shiurim. I can't help you. Don't worry, it'll come a time you'll appreciate. This is, you know, this is an analysis of every word, of every detail. I don't leave a detail out. Every detail. What does it mean? What does the Shulchan Aruch mean? What does it l'maaseh? How are we supposed to learn halacha l'maaseh from it? So, halacha l'maaseh, I want to ask a shaila, you hear? I like making jokes, and my wife likes my jokes, or at least she claims she likes it. She laughs at it. She's a nice lady. She laughs at my jokes, whether they're funny or not, okay? Can I come home, make a jokey atmosphere in the house, b'meini dusa? Or maybe I should show a little more, you know, reserved, a little more, you know, Ashkenazi style, you know, coldness? Or just should I be the Tunisian? The Tunisians don't stop making jokes, okay? So what should I do? So you say, ... but it's not about being with her. Yeah, but Rabbi Wolkin said, shema yargil. Maybe it's going to make an atmosphere, and one thing is going to lead to another. Oh, but then you say, you know what? Maybe that's only doing things. L'yischak v'leikor roish ima is to do things, activities. But just talk, talk is normal. I talk to my boss that way. I talk to my neighbors that way. To go on a trip, you know, which we'll discuss. Are you allowed to go on a trip, on a vacation with your wife? Bimei nidusah. Lo yeikaroshei. They go, they have a fun time. Hey, you go on a—what do they call it?—a hike, climb a mountain together. Maybe that's lo yeikaroshei. After you climb the mountain, you come... one thing leads to another, okay? But normal, normal—what should we call it?—talk, normal speech, yeikaroshei is normal in the workplace with strangers. So maybe it doesn't refer to that. That's what the Ramo adds, afilu bedvarim, and maybe the Mechaber doesn't hold of that. I don't know. It's a very good kula. Let me tell you, with all my chumras, this is a good kula. They'd run me out of Lakewood with this, but I don't care. I'm clarifying. Maybe this is what it is. Maybe that's what it says over here. Okay. Now, so we've just established, what is lo yischak v'lo yeikal, that we don't know what it is. That's what we've established. Ima, we don't know what it is, because ima can mean many things. It means directly with her or doing things with her. We don't know what it means, okay? Right? Because yischak, I don't know. Maybe what's the level of yischak? Does it mean activities? Does it mean talk? Afilu bedvarim. What does afilu bedvarim mean? Jokes, or does it mean light? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's a good shayla. These are all very nice shaylas, okay? Now, shema yargil aveirah, we said it's very not clear. Does it mean shema yargil that it'll bring to, or maybe it will bring to a situation that one thing will lead to another, and okay. Now, let's see a little bit halacha l'maaseh based on these diyukim and the yesodos that we spoke. Was there bichlal an inyan to be mema'et b'sicha with ishto nidah? Now the truth is, that's the obvious. That was the havas d'Rab Nosson that the Gra brings. L'maaseh, the Shulchan Aruch doesn't bring it. So I guess we don't pasken like that Mishnah. I guess the Mishnah doesn't, unless the Shulchan Aruch is toleh machayev, so chiyuv it's not. But with the Ramban that says a person should air her chakos, maybe he should take care of those harchakos. So that's a halacha l'maaseh shailah. Should I come and say, you know what, when people get married, they have these long conversations: You know, my feelings and my emotions, and you feel like this, and I'm this type of person, you know, and it's all baloney, shtus and havalim, because the minute you start diapering babies, you forget about you're that type and I'm that type. I'm the type to yell at you to diaper the baby, and you're the type that yells back that you do it yourself, right? That's the type we are. But—he's a new chassan, he's a little scared. It's all right. You hear? But, but, you hear? You hear? But the shailah is, l'maaseh shteit in Mishnah, Al tarbeh sichah im ishah. So what does that mean? Does that mean I shouldn't have these long, deep conversations?

Now, if she needs it, you know, some women need that you have to talk to them, or al kaponim you have to listen to them. That also you have to know. It's not about you talking to them; it's about you listening to them. So that's yisod echad. They make, in the beginning, they make believe they like to talk to you. They don't like to talk to you. They like that you listen to them. That's what they like. Okay. Now, if she needs it, I don't know. Listen, I'm not going to be machmir. I'm not such a—I'm not a sadist, all right? So I'm not going to go there. But let's say they're both masmidim. You know what? Let's be religious. Let's do it right. Should we have these deep philosophical conversations till two o'clock in the morning when she's a niddah? We do it. Okay. Now, we said, like I said, the Shulchan Aruch doesn't bring it, but on the other hand, the Ramban tells me whatever harchakos is good, right? Okay. I'm going to pasken on a limb. You ready? Sicha. Talk. Unless it's a certain type of talk, it's not asur. Lo yeikal. Sicha b'teilah. What is sicha b'teilah? Translate the words sicha b'teilah. I have two ways how to translate sicha b'teilah. You can translate sicha b'teilah, no purpose, or b'teilah can mean a definition of a type of sicha: empty talk. You know, I'll give you an example. I once spoke to you, what is bittul Torah? Does bittul Torah mean you're not allowed to talk at all? I told you from the Gra that my grandfather, Beis Aaron, spoke from the Gra, and it's brought down in the Rav Chaim Kanievsky's Mussar book from Nachdama, that one of the kinyanei haTorah is mi'ut sichah. So everybody learns to talk less. No. You need a mi'ut sichah. A person needs to talk. A person has to talk. ... Okay. So then what's called bittul Torah? So either bittul Torah means that I'm talking more than that mi'ut sichah. In other words, anything which is more than mi'ut, al kol panim to you, you don't need it and you talk, that's called bittul. Or I would tell you something else. It says, Sichah shel talmidei chachamim tzrichah limud. The talk of the talmidei chachamim have to be learned. It's a type of talk. And then there's sichah beteilah. There's talk which is inherently batel, inherently waste, hot air, okay? There's two types of sichah beteilah. What? Right. What's the point? The point is because it's empty talk. It's empty talk. I don't know if that's true. You see, now you just went with a paintbrush and you painted, I don't know, I don't know. I would say a big chiddush. I would say a very big chiddush, that the Mishnah says sichah beteilah, the Mishnah doesn't mean— B'teilah that it's extra. You don't have to sit there and measure your words. Sicha b'teilah does not mean to measure your words. Sicha b'teilah means empty talk. Can I give an example? Empty talk, to talk about the other person's jewelry is empty talk. You sit there, you saw they bought a house. What's it your business what the other guy did? It's none of your business whatsoever. Not your business. But to talk about yourselves, it's healthy, it's good. I, it's purposeless, but it's not b'teilah. B'teilah is the level, the level, the level. Even during the taanis days? Yes. Even during the taanis days you shouldn't talk b'teilah, and in the nidah days, lo sikrav is only b'teilah. Dvarim b'teilim. Because dvarim b'teilim lead lidei aveirah. There's a hergel lidei aveirah by dvarim b'teilim. Here, for example, I told you over that Reb Barin held that Janala got a college. Now, anybody goes to college here, I don't really care. That's not why I'm discussing it, okay? I'm just giving you the famous discussion that I had with R' Meir Hershkowitz, okay? What was R' Meir Hershkowitz? R' Meir Hershkowitz is a talmid, the, the, the, with the hei hayediah, the talmid of Reb Barin Kahn. So I went over to him, I said—

I don't understand. Reb Aaron's mahalach about college. I don't understand why. If you're afraid about the college, that it's not religious and you're gonna have a bad hashpaah, so go to Torah college. There's nothing. It's very religious. It's all Bnei Torah go there. You're not gonna come out— they take only people sitting in good yeshivas. And if you mean that the type of study, the topics are apikorsus, become a doctor. Become a doctor. What a doctor? What could be bad about learning refuah? What happened? He tells me, No, Reb Aaron held... I said, Listen to me, it's not gonna work with Reb Aaron held. You're gonna have to explain it to me. You're not gonna win by just throwing me in my, you know, 'Reb Aaron, Reb Aaron, Reb Aaron held.' I don't get nervous from that. Either you explain it to me, or you lose. No, he's supposed to be a person that could, so that's otherwise. Some of them just walk around screaming all day. So he tells me the following. He says that Reb Aaron held that the topics that they teach, when it's in relevance to Torah, is bittul. A person can learn a Tosfos and he's learning whatever it is they're teaching in the schools, that itself is inherently bittul Torah. So I told him, But wait a second. You want to tell me that you don't need a doctor? I mean, someone has to be a doctor. So he told me an interesting thing: dibarta bam v'lo bidvarim beteilim. Yeah? Is it because you're not learning? So, for example, in a place where you're patur from Talmud Torah, is there an issur bitul Torah? Is there an issur dvarim beteilim? Let's get—you're patur. You're patur from Talmud Torah. Do you have a problem with dvarim beteilim? It's a machlokes. Tell me this is a machlokes. Reb Chaim Volozhin is—not Reb Chaim—Reb Yitzchok Volozhin. Reb Yitzchok Volozhin had a brother, Zalman, right? Reb Chaim's—Reb Chaim's brother was Reb Zalman, right? The one that learned all the time. He used to sit in the mikveh and make jokes. Tell me this. Brought down in—why? Because since you're patur from Talmud Torah, so there's no issur dvarim beteilim anymore. It's brought down in the Reb Zalman, in the book. Reb Aharon will know that it's a type of talk. It's not—not to learn, you waste—it's not a wasting of time, bitul Torah, but bitul Torah is dvarim beteilim. And he held that there's dvarim beteilim. And what's the issur with dvarim beteilim? Torah says, the only thing you're allowed to talk is Torah and not dvarim beteilim. I looked at him, I go, you know, you guys really, really have it all worked up, you know? But you want to explain to me, how could science be dvarim beteilim? How could a science be dvarim beteilim? Hashem's briah. Rambam says you're supposed to look into Hashem's briah. So you definitely have to come and say, klape learning it's dvarim. So it's only if you look—again, so you can't run away and say it's badsem, because you can't say medical is badsem, right? So he tells me— Part of it is this, part of it is that way. So then you can't have a taina on a Jewish doctor, and that he goes to a Touro College, so it's gevaldik, yeah? So he tells me, Baruch, help me this. Why? Because he says that there'll be doctors anyway. Why do you have to be the one to do it? So I said, Why? Because they're not going to listen. Not everybody's going to listen to... That's it, you lost. I had enough of the conversation. That's it. They're not going to listen to me anyway. That's where I take the turn off the turnpike. These are big discussions. What am I telling you this to entertain you a little bit? Because I know you're getting bored after an hour, and not all of you are used to my shiur that goes on and on and on forever and ever and ever. And I just want to give you the havanah of what's called dvarim beteilim: wasted talk, a waste of time, or dvarim beteilim inherently talk, which is wasteful talk. Okay. Now, to talk about the children, yeah? You know, a lot of times women and men, once they have children, that's all they have to talk about. They repeat over the same thing a thousand times. You saw what he did, and he did it... Okay, so you have this with the children.

So she played there, and you saw that she said she, and he stood there. It's dvarim beteilim, but it's inherently not beteilim. It's just that it's repeated and it's wasteful because it's not necessary. It's aser. This is the shaila. When we talk about dvarim beteilim, and that there's a chumra, that there's a chumra to be adding harchakos, I don't know. I don't know if a person has to sit there and measure his words and be reserved and not to be open and not to schmooze. In Shulchan Aruch, ma'aseh only says, lo yeikel rosho. You want to be frum, and both the husband and the wife are maskim. Let's see, the husband and wife are both maskim. Maybe, maybe there's an inyan of dvarim beteilim, not to talk extra, you know, words which are not necessary. All right, now let's move on to the next nekudah. Okay. All right, do you hear what I'm trying to get at? Does a person at bimei niddah have to sit and measure his words? Now, in Shulchan Aruch, not, because it's lo yeikel. Measuring words is not lo yeikel. But in the sicha beteilah, that the chumra, the Avos Rav Nasin, okay. What about giving a present? Are you allowed to give a present to your wife bimei niddah? So the crazy place poskins, 100 percent, you're allowed to give a present. Now I want to be mechalek; it depends what type of matanah you give. If you give a regular present, it's me'oir chibah, but it's not me'oir taivah. Me'oir chibah. You can't say it's not me'oir chibah. You're allowed to be me'oir chibah. I hold that all actions which are me'oir chibah... Is mutar, which is ma'oirer taiva, not allowed. And I'm going to give you examples where it's borderline. What about flowers? You buy a woman flowers. You'll be surprised, it's not ma'oirer taiva, it's ma'oirer chibah. You're allowed to, I think. I think you're allowed, unless you know that in your particular case that it's margil. Margil, if it's in your particular case, I'm not going there, but in general, you buy flowers for Shabbos, you really shouldn't have a problem. So can't you let me say my shiur? You have to let me say. I didn't go to the next one. I'm giving you examples of where it's borderline. That's exactly what I'm getting at. What about a card? You buy a card, and the card says, I love you. Now that's a very interesting shaila, because every card says I love you. Even when you give a card for bar mitzvah presents, usually on the bottom it says, I love you, because that's—you just go and you buy a standard card from the store, and you don't check that. I love you, I don't, I do love you, I don't. You should know, grada, over the years I learned that those cards mean very little to them, because they taina, you didn't write it, the card guy wrote it. Okay, so I learned the hard way. I mean, it was the hard way I learned. I thought it wasn't such a—I thought, come here, nice poem, and it says, I love you, and ... k'ma'aseh. I learned that it doesn't mean anything. Okay. But l'maaseh, the whole idea of sending a card is somewhere in the middle. You have to be careful. You have to know—a card, a card, I love you. I'll tell you where the I love you bothers me more, even with a card. Let's say you get into a fight and you write, I love you with a card. All right, it's not the end of the world. Shailah is, in general, could you say I love you to a... Shailah is, in general, can I say I love you to, when your wife is... Now, when you get married, it doesn't mean anything. It's just talk. As soon as you get married, it's, you know, it becomes like a have to say it. It's like in the morning, I love you. Otherwise, you don't say, How convenient to say? It's a whole story, you didn't say it, right? So the I love you doesn't necessarily mean a groysa chibah, and it doesn't lead to big chibah, and they say it during the day, and they say it during the night, and they say it. It's more of a shalom bayis, I love you. There's different hagdaros of I love you. If you feel that it's only that, then a chori should be allowed to say it, but don't tell other people, because then they're going to come and say, They teach you here in the yeshiva that you're allowed to do that bimei nidah? Yes, I teach you that, because lemaaseh, if you know the halacha well, what's mutter is mutter and what's aser is aser, unless in your particular case you know differently, which is the Ramban. So again, a card, again, a matanah, no problem. Flowers, 99 percent, no problem. A card, I love you, you wrote I love you, makes it even worse a little bit. You have to know what the card I love you does, all right? In general, I love you, so I think it makes a difference. If you're just married, it's okay, you can say I love you. It's not the end of the world. Believe you me, all it is is...

It's room for fighting. That's all, you know. It's a vehicle of, but didn't say it and mean it, you know, right? Didn't say it enough today, you know. So it doesn't really do, it doesn't bring much chiyuv. The only thing it brings is fighting. Someone just got married, פיל? Okay. I would say, yeah, exactly. I know you say the opposite, but I say it this way. When you're in my yeshiva, I pasken the way I want to pasken. You could say it the way you want. I missed you. That's right, that's right, with the gun, I missed you. A hundred percent it depends on you, but in the general, if I love you, it doesn't mean anything. It's not the end of the world. Okay, now let's talk that all this is only when we talk about lidei. But if you talk about b'etzem asur, that the kirva is b'etzem, and lo yischak, and all these things is b'etzem kirva, then there's no heter to say it even if you don't mean anything. Understand? This is only if lidei, so you can start clarifying what's going to bring lidei, and it's serious, and it's not. That's what I'm telling you. Then you can start playing with it. But if you hold b'etzem, and this is bituyim of ahavah, they're b'etzem they are, and there's an issur lo sikra b'etzem, then it's not so pashut. So again, avada, you know, if you could stay away from all this, it's fine. When it's necessary, just think twice and ask a rav, and there are cases where it can be okay. Now let's do the next part of the halacha, mutar lisyached. And we're going to get back to more details, more definition of lo yeikov, lo yischak, but first let's do the next part of the seif like this we did the whole seif. Aval mutar lisyached imah. Yeah? You're allowed to be misyached. D'keivan sheba aleha b'machasu, lo takif Yisrael. So right away, I would like you, as a posek, to ask, and what happens if not? What happens if you see that they had in the past problems? Let's say you see that the husband and the wife, they can't control themselves. So, su lo takif Yisrael. How can you say it if it's not true? So I'm asking, so could you come and say most of the time, and those times are rather flukes? I don't know. You're allowed to be... I don't know. It's not so poshut. Come to a rav and tell the rav, you know, we're not good at this inyan. Maybe... What's the heter of... I don't know what the heter of... is. What? Su lo takif Yisrael, but you see it's not true. Now, what happens if it's never happened, bid, that they did an aveirah, but the husband says, you know, I feel that when I'm misyached with her, I have a problem. It never came l'maaseh. It never came to fruition, a problem. Should he come and say better not to be misyached? I don't know. It's an interesting horaah. What happens if he says, I have takif Yisrael? I personally am made that I have takif Yisrael, unless that's where the havtachah of Sugah baShoshanim comes from. There's a Gemara. The Gemara says what stops a person from doing an aveirah b'shaas nida. So the Gemara says, sugah baShoshanim, the Torah, which is a fence. So maybe you do need a fence. In other words, it's not lo takif Yisrael. See, the emes is, from the Shulchan Aruch is mashma that there won't be a problem. But from the Gemara's mashma, there is a problem, but af al pi kein you won't be over because there's a gate, a fence that protects you. So maybe that's what sugah baShoshanim is good for, where you do have a protection, where you do have a yetzer hara, and you feel you have a yetzer hara, aval l'maaseh, Torah says don't worry, sugah baShoshanim. Next. No, this is the Shailah. It says, mutar lisyached, and the reason is, כיון שבעלה פמח. I'm asking you, what happens in case not? In case they come to the rav and there was problems in the past. So this halacha doesn't apply, l'choirah not, but I never saw anybody say differently. Second, what happens if the husband feels differently? He says, I do have a problem. Maybe that's some claring. Maybe suga b'sheishanim. You don't have to worry. You think you have a problem, and you taka have a yetzer hara, but it's not going to happen. And that's the Gemara, suga b'sheishanim. Okay, the Gemara says, what stops a husband from being over b'tzina, tzina? Who knows the difference? Gemara says, suga, a gate, b'sheishanim. The whole Hilchos Niddah is called suga b'sheishanim, you know that? There are books about Hilchos Niddah, they use this expression. They call it suga b'sheishanim, which means there's a fence of roses, which protects around the aveirah that you shouldn't do the aveirah. So I told you over already from Rav Gifter, I told you over many times, Rav Gifter used to say over a vort from the Telzer Rav, Rav, what's his name? Rav Bloch. Rav Yosef Leib Bloch, the Telzer Rav. He said over, if you want to protect something, you put up a...

Alarm system, a gate of metal. You don't put up flowers. Teretz is, no. He said, Mari dekvart. He said, when you see the beauty of a flower, you can't destroy it. Something is beautiful in someone's eyes, he'll go to the end of the world not to destroy it. Mari dekvart. Klal Yisrael sees the beauty in the Torah, sugya baShishanim. Famous vort from Rav ... from Bloch. Okay, now. So it could be there's a sugya baShishanim that says not to worry about if takif yitzrei, but l'maaseh Shulchan Aruch says loi takif yitzrei. Okay. I don't know, efsher mitzad eitza. Maybe mitzad din you're not mechuyav to not misyached. Maybe if you see you have a problem, maybe a rav should tell you an eitza to take someone with you. I don't know. You have to know this. I don't know. Now, what happens, yeah, a person calls his wife from a trip, from—he's now in the Bahamas or he's chves in Indonesia. He went on a trip, a business trip into Shanghai or wherever they go today to business. Now he's not going to come to live with his wife, right? He's not getting up on a plane and coming 15 hours. Could he tell her on the phone, dvarim shel chibah? The whole purpose and problem is—the whole purpose of yichud, the whole inyan is what? Hergel aveirah. So I have this shaila. I have this shaila. It doesn't say that that's the reason. Hergel aveirah is this. Hergel aveirah is to live with the woman. So my shaila is, halacha l'maaseh, are you allowed on the phone to say dvarim shel chibah? Okay. So I was thinking to myself to bring a raya from a gevaldige teshuva, Rav Moshe. Rav Moshe, in Igros Moshe, Yoreh Deah chelek beis, siman ayin zayin. Rav Moshe has a shaila the following: Could you come and be matir not to have a, you know, the passing? You want to pass in front of people. You're sitting by a table, and there are guests at the table. Are you allowed to be matir? So he has a few צדדים to the shaila. First of all, busha. It's very embarrassing. Show everybody here, put it down. Everybody knows that she's a niddah. Another nekudah is this point that I'm asking about far away. You're not going to come, lidei aveirah. Now what? You're going to throw everybody out of the house and start being together? What are they going to do, right? So Rav Moshe clarifies maybe this is a reason to be matir. This is Yoreh Deah chelek beis, siman ayin zayin. Rav Moshe says, also, you're allowed to be matir. You're allowed to be matir. There's no heter. L'maaseh she's a niddah. L'maaseh there's halacha. Busha, there's no busha. Every woman is a niddah at certain times, and everybody keeps hilchos niddah, v'chulei v'chulei. So I was clarifying, you see Rav Moshe, and the teshuva doesn't have a heter of what—doesn't use the heter that right now there won't be an aveirah. Doesn't use it. So l'choira we could shteltzu that if you call from far away, you could come and say, who says you could use the heter to say dvarim shebikdusha, but just because it won't come lidei aveirah. But the truth is, it's not a raya. Why? Because over here, maybe now at this moment, you can't do anything. Yeah, good, and after the people leave. But here you're in the city and not in the country, and now you're far away, so maybe there's no problem. Now don't forget another thing: when you have— When you have a far away, when you're far away, the character, the woman's looking for divrei chibah. She's alone, she's scared. Why? You only say that when he comes back if she's still needed, that he's developed a chibah so much that that would... Because that usually happens when you come back from a trip. Let's say he's there for a week. And what if you're having this party for... I don't know. I'm asking, shaylah l'halacha l'maaseh. Could you make chilukim? So it's what we spoke about in the beginning. Is that chazakah, because that's it, that's the way they are no matter who, what, when, and where? Or the chazakos are given to be applied, applied in particular situations? Okay. Now, what happens in case they hate each other? They haven't done shalom for three years, and they let us pass things to each other, right? Or for example, they're older people, and she became a niddah for whatever, the Chazal said, we learned halacha, an isha zekeinah, she became a niddah. He hasn't lived with his wife in years, has no shaychus there, okay? He's a bachelor already, even in his marriage for years, okay? So what about those cases? Unless we say maybe hergel aveirah, ilma kuz, maybe you never know.

Start the whole course, and you never know, maybe something will change. And it's still not our case. It's still not our case where you call from far, because you're far away; it has no shaychus to you. Okay. I want to discuss, and I know I'm doing this quickly, but there's a lot of different nekudos I want to discuss. What happens if you see— you know what, I'll tell you about peh what I want to discuss, and I guess we'll do it afterwards, or a different time. What happens if you see that one spouse is not makpid on these halachos? Happens a lot. You see one— you're makpid, or should a husband tell a wife, should a wife tell a husband. Also, I want to discuss, let's say a husband or a wife isn't makpid on hilchos nidah; you have to get divorced. What happens if you're not makpid on harchakos? I have big tzadim about these things. Okay. I also want to discuss with you what happens if it's not nidah: Yom Kippur, aveilus, Tisha B'Av. She's not allowed to live with her, but she's not a nidah; it's not bimei tumasah. Do all these halachos apply? These are mefurash in dinim in Orach Chaim, and Taz and Magen Avraham. Yeah, but you have to learn it well, because de'oraisa, derabbanan, Yom Kippur is de'oraisa, Tisha B'Av is derabbanan. Which halachos? There's different levels in halachos, so we're going to discuss, and then we're going to bring it back to— now I'll just tell you one nekudah quickly. The Taz is matir on Tisha B'Av that you're allowed to have the harchakos; you don't have to keep the harchakos. Why? Since she's menuval, since she's not— Tisha B'Av, she's eating, she's not dressed properly, so there's no problem of lidei aveirah. Wait a minute. So should we apply that also in a situation of nidah where you're not going to have lidei— maybe you can be matir, according to this Taz. Okay. This, rabosai, is— I want to do it today, but I guess we'll continue it next time. Okay.