Hilchos Hefsek Taharah: Moch Dachuk, Bein Hashmashos, and the Purpose of Two Bedikos

Transcript

U'le'olam yilmad adam, l'hachmir lechatchilah, b'soch beiso, שתי בדיקות ביום הפסק טהרה, במוך דחוק, ושם כל בין השמשות, שזו בדיקה מוציאה מידי כל ספק. So yesterday, last shiur we medayek that the Shulchan Aruch brings the hefsek taharah and the moch dachuk in the same se'if. We're going to work a little bit more on this today, because there are applications, practical halacha, if it really is the same or it's separate. We have to work on it a little bit. So I'd like to begin with the lashon of the moch dachuk, and that is, l'olam yilmad adam. What kind of a lashon is l'olam yilmad adam? Sounds like a pirkei Avos, you know, something that a person, l'olam yilmad adam, you know, l'olam yehei adam, I don't know, it's like a very musardike lashon, l'olam yilmad adam. So what does it mean, l'olam yilmad adam? So l'choirah, we find l'olam whenever there is a chiyuv, they use the word l'olam. For example, a person should be b'soch beiso, to say before Shabbos, Yisartem, yeraftem, biku'aner, that's chiyuv. That's not the— Eitza toiva? No? I never saw anybody do it, so. It says, l'olam... Use that lashon. Shlosha dvarim. It says... No, it says the lashon of the Chazal's l'olam. You know where you have the lashon? You have to relax. You also have that lashon. Also l'olam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember correctly, the lashon was there too, that you're supposed to teach the wife. Tes. Yeah, yeah, you found it? You found the lashon? What is l'olam? L'olam yilmad adam. Tzarich adam loimar b'soch beisoi. Does he give any good examples of l'olam, l'olam yilmad adam, where it says it? Any examples? Shaila is what it means, okay? So the truth is, the Aruch HaShulchan learns that it's a lashon of lechatchila. That's a lechatchila, chumra. You're not mechuyav; l'olam he should do it. So then what's the Rama then? What is the Rama? Again, l'olam, it doesn't say you have to do it. It says, l'olam yilmad adam, a person should teach. He should teach that they should do it, teach b'soch beisoi. So what does that mean? That's a chiyuv for him taka to teach, to make sure, I mean, or maybe it's just a lashon of lechatchila. A person should taka talk.

That's an inyan to do. The Orach HaShulchan learns that it's a lashon l'chatchila, and therefore he asks a kasha: so what is the Rama? The Rama says clearly, l'hachmir l'chatchila. So it could be the Rama is just explaining the Mechaber. Le'olam yilmad is mashma that maybe you're mechuyiv, like tzarich adam lomar. So le'olam yilmad maybe it's tzarich. So the Orach HaShulchan—I'm sorry, the Shulchan Aruch—the Rama says that when the Meran says le'olam yilmad, all he means is l'hachmir l'chatchila. He doesn't mean more than that. Oitelma, maybe that's how you're supposed to teach it. Le'olam yilmad adam. How do you teach it? You teach it in a way that it's l'hachmir l'chatchila. That's what you're supposed to teach them. Don't tell them they're mechuyiv, but teach them that they should be machmir l'chatchila. If they could, they should, and if they can't, they can't. Or maybe—I'm thinking about shtarker and shtarker—when the Rav gives a shiur b'rabim, what you should do or shouldn't do, or when, let's say, the ladies get taught by the teacher, is she mechuyiv to teach that, or it's something in the house? Le'olam yilmad adam. Maybe the husband should teach his wife to be machmir; it's a private chumra. I know nobody says it like this, but that's what it says in the Shulchan Aruch, no? Le'olam, a person should be zahir b'soch beiso. Maybe it's just a personal chumra. What do you taina? You don't know. But how did you learn it? Forget about what you... How did you learn when you learned it? And what does the Rambam mean, ...? Aha. Okay, okay. So let's go through it one more time. So, לעולם... Ah, he's bringing me a Gemara. Let's see. Well, what do you have for me? What do you have as a raya? What? Okay. So, לעולם ילמד אדם... What does it mean, לעולם? Just say you're mechuyiv to make a moich tochachah, and that's all, or you should make a moich tochachah. If you don't want the word chiyuv, say a woman should make a moich tochachah, since when is it prone to the limud of the husband, that it's a husband's...? Huh? I'm saying, I use—that's what I'm trying to say. The word לעולם usually—לעולם is a good advice. It's a... Yeah, but לעולם, that's the word. Usually when you say לעולם, it's a good advice. It's like a Mishnah in Avos. No, it's an Avos-dike nusach. So shayla, what do you mean by that? So either you could come and say that he means to say it's taka not a chiyuv. Hagam, if I remember correctly, by chafifah there is a לעולם, a person should teach to be makpid, and there is taka chiyuv. In kuf tzadi tes, the case—I am not finding it at this moment—but it's a famous lashon, לעולם a person should teach to be makpid on a certain chatzitza. Okay, al kol panim, either we could say לעולם ילמד means lechatchilah. And therefore the Shal's, what's the Rama? So either the Rama is just being mefaresh the Mechaber, or that that's the lo olam yilmad. That's how you should teach it. You should teach it that it's only a chumra. Or the third pshat is, lo olam yilmad, that it's taka not a din klali; it's a chumra in the house. It has to do with the chumra of the person. It's kedai for you to tell your wife that. But ein hachanami. Let's see further. Nafka mina: how chumra is this moich dachuk? Is this, rabosai, connected to the hefsek tahara, or it's separate from the hefsek tahara? What do I mean? Maybe it's enough to make the hefsek tahara and to keep it there for the moich. No need separate. Where does it say anything about separate? ... So is that the original hefsek tahara, and the ikar chiddush is, v'sheyeisham kol bein hashmashos? Or it's a separate—there's a second bedikah besides the bedikah mentioned above. There's another one that has to be, bedikah b'yom hefsek taharasah, b'moich dachuk.

and mashma that it's a separate one, otherwise you don't have to repeat. I mean, just say, I mean, if you're talking about the original hefsek ta'ira, so just say, it should remain there, kol bein hashmashos. I mean, why would you repeat? You said there's halacha that you have to be mafsik b'tahara, so why would you? Just say it should stay there the whole bein hashmashos. So it's mashma that besides for the din of the hefsek ta'ira, there's a separate thing called moich dachuk. Why? I don't see—you don't see that in the Shulchan Aruch? Rabbi's asking, you already explained my question to this. You have to do two bedikos, and the last one should stay. I didn't say that either. Okay, so obviously you misunderstood me. My question is, is this one thing called hefsek ta'ira, and the hefsek ta'ira should stay there kol bein hashmashos, or there's a separate moich dachuk, which is you, after the hefsek ta'ira, you put in a moich dachuk and it should be there. I'm not holding anywhere yet. The first thing is that the lashon is mashma that it's something separate. Wait, not according to that yet. There's hefsek ta'ira, there's a moich dachuk. That's what the mashma'os is. The problem is what you're bringing out. What's the problem? The problem is that then the moich dachuk becomes a bedikah for itself also, which is a problem, and that's the safek that I have. I don't know. That if you learn the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch the way everybody learns the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch, the way the minhag olam is to learn the Shulchan Aruch, that they do a separate... So, eino chinami. So then the bodekes is for the moich dachuk separately. And I'll explain to you what I mean with this. I'll tell you what I mean. L'maaseh, they do take out the hefsek taharah, and they have a separate thing for the moich. So the Badei HaShulchan gives two reasons for it. The first reason is, he says it's technical, because if you leave the original hefsek taharah and leave it there for the moich, maybe it's not good. So you end up losing one day. Like this, you could check the hefsek, maybe, and the hefsek is good, right? If it's no good, so you do another one. Like this, you check the hefsek. So eino chinami, according to this it comes out it's just a technical thing, that they make two shlavim, two steps out of it. Actually, it's a hefsek taharah with leaving it there, which is the moich. The second reason he brings is that kol zman she never checked the original hefsek, she doesn't even know she's bichlal clean. So when she starts counting the next, for the first day, she actually didn't know she was clean yet. So the sefirah is not a sefirah nekiyah. She's not counting the clean day. So also, whole machlokes, according to Rashi you need both the night and the day, but according to Tosafos all you need is the day. The sefiras hayom, to know that you're naki, it starts from the next morning. You don't know. If you're taking the original hefsek and using it for the moich, you don't know that it's clean bichlal. If you made a hefsek, so you're clean, and the moich is for whatever, to be extra careful, but you know that you're clean. But if you start and you don't even know you're clean, so the night is starting without even you knowing that you're clean. So it's not sefiras hayom. He brings two pshatim in the Biur Halacha. Okay, let's get the ... so you don't know the sugya. If you make a hefsek ta'irah, you take it out, so you know that you had a hefsek ta'irah. Now what do you want with this moich? So either what you do is the moich is on top of the hefsek ta'irah, but you already know that you're clean, so the moich is an extra precautionary. So you're counting now the clean days knowing that you started already with a hefsek ta'irah. This could be the reason why we take it out and put in a separate one for the moich. L'maaseh, the Shulchan Aruch is mashma that it's a second bedikah, that it's a two-step. Otherwise he should have said clearly, you do the hefsek ta'irah, and then he should say you keep it there all day, all through bein hashmashos. When you say that there's a hefsek ta'irah, the next thing is l'olam yilmad adam to keep it there till the end of bein hashmashos. So the mere fact that you're starting to talk about again that she should be...

What do you mean by that? I mean, you don't have to repeat over that there was hafsik. And the answer is, it might be a second thing. Again, you don't repeat. You don't say, because he's telling me I'm not adding to what I said before. L'olam yilmad adam ... shetei b'dekes b'yom, hefsek taharah. Which means, forget about what I just told you. Why should I forget about it? Because this is a much better way of doing it. This is a much better option. This is the mekor hadin. You really want to do things this way, you should check and just leave. Exactly. That's why I wasn't sure. What's the problem? Whatever I just said. Otherwise you don't have to go through the entire story. Can we wait for that? Because I don't think that you have enough information to say what you're saying. You're right, but I don't think you have enough information. In other words, let's— No, the reading is mashma. ... Now I'll tell you why I said what I said. Where did the word moch dochuk come in? Do you know, first of all, what the word moch dochuk means? Something stuck. Okay. Now, is that the regular bedikah, or what is that? That's a different type of bedikah? What is— I don't say every hefsek taharah is moch dochuk. What is moch dochuk? It's not, it is. What is chorem u'sadakin? Don't leave it—the word dochuk means to leave? Okay. Can someone take out a dictionary and tell me where it says dochuk, to leave it there? No, no. Dachuk means to be stuffed. No. Dachuk means to be pushed in. The word dachuk means to be pushed. Dochek raglei haShechinah — you're pushing. The word dochek is to push. Every hefsek taharah has to be dachuk. What are you talking about? As a matter of fact, if you look at the leshonos of the Rishonim, the word dachuk is not there. It's a mechabes invention, you know that? Look at the Chinuch. There's no word dachuk. Maich. Okay. Huh? Machdachuk? The word dachuk? Maich, not dachuk. That's exactly what I just said. I want to know where the word dachuk came from and what is the translation of the word dachuk. See, now they're doing the homework. Right, so I'm saying, so I don't care that it's the Rashba, but that's Rashba. Whoever said it is Rashba. Do the other Rishonim use the word dachuk? It's the only one that brings this idea. Yeah. Okay, you know what? How about the Chinuch mitzvah chaf-hei? How about the Chinuch mitzvah chaf-hei? The what? I want to know, I don't see, what is the difference between a regular bedikah and this? This doesn't... huh? Chaf-hei? No, okay. You don't believe that the word dachuk actually is the regular bedikah of hefsek taharah? It's not dachuk. You're dochek and you take it out. It's not called dachuk. Stuffed pill doesn't mean I just put the feathers for a second and put it out. Where's the word stuff? Where'd you get stuff? Pushed, fine, pushed. You know something, tell me, when you have stuffed cabbage, called the cabbage dachuk, and I don't— Is it because they put it for a second and took it out? Oh, it's a stuffed cabbage. The word dachuk has nothing to do with stuff. Fine, it's not stuff. The word dachuk means that you pushed it all the way to the top. You pushed. You pushed. But it's a sheim Torah. It stayed that way, not that I just did it and I went like this. Ah, it stayed that way. Right? Isn't that what dachuk means? Not dachak. It's not I did it; it's pushed. It stayed. And I hold you wrong. I hold you completely wrong. The word dachuk is not going to state it. The word dachuk is because of where you put it. Huh? I agree with you. I know you agree. I mean, Chaznish says that. I mean, it's pashut, pashut. The word dachuk has nothing to do with how long it stays there. Dachuk has to do with the type of bedikah you did. If that is the hefsek taharah, so why do you have two different terminologies? I don't know. I have no idea. I do have an idea, but that's what I was talking about. Let me tell you the way I read it. The way I read it is like this. The first thing is that such a thing called a hefsek taharah.

And then there's a new thing. Le'olam yilmad adam b'sei beis daks mi'mefsed terasa, something new called b'moich dachuk. It's a new type of bedikah. And that bedikah sheyesh sham kol bein hashmashos. So why don't you say—first of all, why don't you say, why don't you say, shezu bedikah motziah mi'dei chovah? Why does it say— You know what I'm saying? Unbelievable nekudah. It's something new. It's a new type of bedikah. Le'olam yilmad... No, it went b'chezkas tzadakah. It doesn't have to go all the way up into the rech. Yeah, the Chazon Ish says that. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody thinks the moich dachuk is the fact that it's there forever. No, it's not. It has nothing to do with that. Fine, it's dachuk, but it's not the ikar bedikah. If you just did that, would that be motzi ידי חובה דחוקים and zakkim? Maybe not. I don't know. And we can discuss it. We can discuss it. There's room for discussion. But at least you know what I'm talking about. I'm teaching you something completely different. Okay. Is it one or is it two? So if you learn that it's all one, right, so the fact that they take it out could be for technical reasons, right? B'emes, you could have done the regular bedikah and then just leave it there. Why do they take it out? So the Baal HaShulchan has a whole thing that they take it out for technical reasons. The first reason they take it out is to make sure that it's clean. Maybe it's going to be dirty and you lose a day, like this, you can make another bedikah. And the second reason is she should know that she's counting, it's already clean, and then he brings all machlokes, Rashi and Tosafos, when does she have to know already that the sefirah starts from the night before, the sefirah starts from the next day. Good, mask. Okay. Agav, if you learn that the sefirah actually starts from the next day, like Shitas Rashi, starts in the morning, the sefirah, so what exactly is the whole reason for the hefsek taharah? Remember I asked you a shailah: is the hefsek taharah to know that the yemei tumah are finished, or is the hefsek taharah l'haschalas telling the shailah? It could be the sefirah's hayom actually is from tomorrow; it's not from today. Take out this, and he brings the machlokes Rashi and Tosafos. It's good to read it; it's good information for you to know. Here. Here. Shitas haTosafos, pesachim peh aleph: the sefiras laila lav sefirah. The night is not negeia, really. Rashi, on the nir'eh she'af al daas Rashi, according to Rashi, sefiras halaylah is sefirah. But according to Tosafos, sefiras halaylah is not. So he wants to say, on the nir'eh she'af al daas Rashi, it צריך להחמיר זה, דאף על פי שמסופקת בתחילת הלילה, because even if you have a safek, but that's how it works, that she thinks maybe it'll be, maybe it'll be a sefirah is good enough even according to Rashi. And then he brings from R' Moshe; R' Moshe held not like that. But, אין מה שכתוב בספר ... סימן עא, not like that, that you have to know. So according to that, you have to take it out to make sure that you know that you're counting. Geshmak. But it has nothing to do with what, rabosai, that it's too—technically, the reason to take it out is for other reasons, but al tzad bedikah. You could have used the old bedikah, the old bedikah, the regular bedikah. And use that as a moich dachuk. We're gonna learn maybe not so poshut, not so poshut. Why? The word moich dachuk. So you're saying the word dachuk means that it's there the whole time. Okay. You know, try mitzvah Chof-Zayin. Look at the Chinuch, mitzvah Chof-Zayin. Huh? Reish-Zayin. So go ahead, read it. No? Okay, go ahead. Reish-Zayin, go ahead. Yeah, the what, what? Bodekes, no? Right, that's what I'm saying, the word dachuk. He makes the diyuk. Yeah, because there's no word dachuk. A lot of Rishonim don't bring the word dachuk. There's two types. There's bedikah, and then there's something called dachuk.

So I just told you, it's all the same thing. That's exactly what I just said. According to the Chinuch, it's dachuk, it's one bedikah. There's a bedikah, and then we leave that bedikah bein hashmashos. So now you know why I read it that way, because if the Chinuch, it's read that way. That's the way it's read, pashut, that there's one bedikah. Now, let me tell you further. We'll go one step further. Hefsek taharah, I showed you from the Rishonim, has to be what? Becherem b'sadakin. The moich doesn't have to be becherem b'sadakin. Let me be mechadesh not. The ikar is the dachuk. The ikar is the dachuk, and it's not the becherem b'sadakin. A hefsek wouldn't be good for a moich, and a moich wouldn't be good for a hefsek. No, works both ways. A hefsek wouldn't be good for a moich, and a moich wouldn't be good for a hefsek. So then you got both. Baruch Hashem, he was matzliach, that's all. He did both, and then a chanami, you kill two birds with one stone, there's no problem. And that's why it's split. It's not split because there's two chiyuvim, but there's two procedures which are needed. There's one procedure which is needed, which is hefsek taharah, which is a bedikah becherem b'sadakin, and there's one which is called moich dachuk. Let's look at the lashon of the Mechaber. Says the Mechaber, shezu bedikah motziah midei kol safek. What does he mean? Shezu bedikah. So what's the motziah midei safek? Meaning, the moich. So why does he say, shezu bedika motzia midei safek? He means the whole thing, the fact that I did it this way, or it's a different type of bedika. Moich is a different sugya of bedika. This bedika is motzia midei kol safek. Why is it motzia midei kol safek? There's chazakah mesadakin. So I just explained to you. Because if you learn the Mechaber holds it's two things: there's a hefsek taharah, and on top of the hefsek taharah there's also a moich dachuk. Shezu, this second bedika is motzia, because after the first bedika there's still a safek. What is the safek after the first bedika? What could you have a safek? How do you make a bedika and it's clean? What's the safek? Maybe it came later. So you say because it came later, I hold something completely different. I hold something completely different. Are you with me? Is everybody with me? Okay. Reb Akiva Eiger, I told you, says clearly, yeah, that dachuk means davka dachuk, deep, deep. Nachmanides wants to say nishtasafek. Nachmanides' siman reish lamed beis, or Reb Akiva Eiger's in siman samech, Nachmanides' siman reish lamed beis says that dachuk, maybe he learns like you, that dachuk is just the type, the type of procedure because it's there the whole time. If you learn that it's taka chiyuv dachuk, so it's a whole different bedika, right? Peirush: one is a bedika to see dam. The hefsek taharah, is there dam? The other bedikah is to check mayon hapasuach, mayon hachasum. And therefore it goes b'omek to check mayon hapasuach, mayon hachasum. It's a bedikah. I saw the Debretziner, and that's why I told you—remember I told you there's a whole shaila. There's a whole shaila if you're allowed to use a tampon for a bedikah. So he says a chiddush: for a bedikah, yes; for a moich, I'm sorry, for a bedikah not; for a moich, yes. Why? He says this klal, because by bedikah you need chayrim u'sadakin. A moich doesn't need bechayrim u'sadakin. That's this vort. I'm saying a moichdiker deher. That's this vort. A bedikah does not need—I'm sorry, bedikah needs bechayrim u'sadakin. A moich needs to go doch, something complete, and therefore you're allowed to use a tampon. That's all different things. The Meishiv, chelek daled, siman samech daled. It's a nice psak. But if you learn, if you learn that it's all one thing, it's all bedikah, just it's the same bedikah that's left kol bein hashmashos, it's not going to be good. I want to tell you, I hold halacha l'maaseh.

If you learn the way you're learning, then the moich dachuk has to be with the bedikah, bechayrim sedakim. I don't know if they do it. It's a whole different—I'm telling you a chiddush, halacha l'maaseh. It's a whole different bedikah. One is a bedikah bechayrim sedakim, and one is not bechayrim sedakim. One is dachuk. The Chavos Daas, taina is that a moich dachuk is a completely different thing than what we do today. He says besides that you put all the way in, you also have to put around, because if you put it in, maybe on the sides it'll fall out. Look at the Chavos Daas, siman kuf tzadi-gimmel, se'if katan ches. It has to fill the whole gap, like a bottle stopper. It has to close up everything. We don't do it today. The oilam doesn't do it today. Maybe because we have underwear. Maybe, I don't know if that's the cheshbon, but they definitely don't do the moich. Maybe the cheshbon is because of this, maybe. Go ahead, read it. Kuf tzadi-gimmel, se'if katan ches. No? Go ahead, read it, read it. I have it in the... Please read it. שמוח דחוק כשהוזכר בפוסקים, וענין הפסקת הרהור באופן שתתמלא את כל בית הרחם במוח, וגם תניח מוחים הרבה מחוץ לרחם עד שיכסה את כל בית התורפה, שאז בוודאי אילו יצא טיפת דם הייתה נמצאת על גבי המוח. אבל אם תניח מוח בלבד, אויל ודרכו להיכווץ, כדמוכח בנידה, יש לחוש שעדיין לא נסתמו כל החורים והסדקים, ויכול דם לצאת דרך הסדקים באופן שלא ייגע במוח, כי לכך אין בדיקה זו מועילה להתיר דם הנמצא בפוסדור שאינו סגור. But maybe today we have underwear, so it's not. The truth is, so don't do the bedikah at all, and we have the underwear. So what are you afraid? Because it's maybe going to get lost on the inside. So why do you have a problem, no? Why don't we choshesh for this for this Chavas Daas? Say a good word. Bishlema when you make a bedikah b'churim v'sadakim, so you're going everywhere, and at that moment you mevarer this, anything anywhere. But here you're leaving something. What? Maybe it fell on the sides. I don't know about the metzius. I was thinking the metzius makes sense. Is it shayach for dam to fall out and not...? Even if it's niskabetz. I guess it's possible. It's possible to go by the wall and this is not going to... I guess. So what's takke pshat? How can the velted take on this Chavas Daas? Huh? Isn't this why we're doing two? Isn't this why we're doing the bedikah first, even if the moch doesn't work with the Chavas Daas? What he just said—he just said my shitah. You just said over what I told, exactly what I just told. Could you get up and be modeh l'emes? You just said what I said. That was the whole— the whole shiur is to show you this. You want to get up and explain why we don't have to do it? Why don't we have to worry about what the Chavas Daas just said? Chavas Daas says that the moch has to be something which completely, totally fills the rechem, and the beis hataraf also, both, because maybe the churim v'sadakim, maybe it's going to go on the sides, right? Yeah, okay. We don't do it today, so what happened? So we do a separate bedikah before. So what are we left with? Just the what? The mayanah pesuchah, the opening. That we take care of with the cut. You like it. Now you know what I'm talking about? I knew this. I read it. So now you see the reading of the Shulchan Aruch? So get up and say. Get up from the beginning. Start. Get up. Get up. So I'm going to make you come to me and you have kiddush. You ready? Get up. Okay. La'olam yilmad adam. A person should teach. So this is like a chumrah, it's special, it's whatever it means. Then what? That she should make a bedikah b'yom hefsek taharah. That part's not in the Mishnah Berurah, right? That part is anyway. So leave it there also. So how would you write the Shulchan Aruch? Not if it was you. You're happy the way it is, the way I would like it. What should be the—

L'olam yilmad adam, that he should leave it there. He just finished talking about having sefek dayra. Who says he needs two? That's why I asked, what do you want halacha to say? I want the halacha to say like this: a person must make a hefsek taharah. L'olam yilmad adam, l'saifei sheyeshair sham kol bein hashmashos. What's wrong with that? And that hefsek taharah. I don't say—you want, what's the chiddush? The chiddush is that it should be there to write, it should be there, and that's all. So I'm telling you maybe you want a second thing. Maybe l'olam yilmad adam that she should make another thing. Oh, so that's why it's written that way. First there's a hefsek taharah, then l'olam yilmad adam that you make another one. What's the problem with that? But that other one is not a bedikah. You make it sound like there's another bedikah. It's another bedikah? It's something separate. So Chaim come along and say, of course it's nothing separate. So why is it in two shlavim? It's in two shlavim for technical reasons. Take it out, then it's not clean, you can do it again. Or she should know that she's counting, Rashi, tosefos against a ma'aseh. But if you learned that it's not technical, that it's taka halachic, the reason why we want you to take it out and put another one in again, and l'olam yilmad adam is a second one, so what's the second one? What's this second bedikah? And the Teretz says, you didn't pay attention to the bedikah. It says something different. It doesn't say bedikah. It doesn't say the regular bedikahs. It says moich dachuk. So they're learning dachuk in because it's there, kol bein hashmashos. I don't know. That's true. I thought it's a description of the moich. It's a description of... And the answer is, it's deep. The moich is deep. I take a look and I find רבי עקיבא איגר. רבי עקיבא איגר says it's not enough to make a regular bedikah. It has to go deep, deep, deep. And the Noda BiYehuda says lav davka. Chazon Ish talks about it. You want the Chazon Ish, siman צדיק בייס, siman כה. Look up the Chazon Ish. Dachuk, yeah, dachuk. רבי עקיבא איגר says no, it says dachuk. So wait a minute. So is that like the regular hefsek taharah, or that's part—maybe that's part of the chumrah? Normally all is good enough to make a regular one. You want to be machmir, it should be dachuk, and it should be there kol bein hashmashos, maybe. But maybe it's a whole different sugya. It's a different type of bedikah. One bedikah is bechorin uvesa, dachuk. The other sugya is moich dachuk, and the moich dachuk should be there kol bein hashmashos. The nafka mina would be maybe you don't need cherem sadofkin. So let's say a tampon, for example, no problem, as long as it goes all the way up to where it's supposed to go, it's good enough. Chavos Daas says, wait a minute, moich dachuk doesn't help you for what could go on the sides. And you know what the Teretz is? We're not interested in the sides. We're interested only in the mayan hachasum and mayan hapasuach. Pshat. So I'm telling you a me'oreidikah vort. The hefsek tairah is to make sure that there's no doubt. The moich dachuk, this is for a different reason. The moich dachuk is to make sure that mayanah is chasum. That's why it has to be dachuk. It has to be something completely different. And I'm telling you, chishalach, I would pasken this way. If you ask me, I would pasken that the hefsek tairah should be bechorim tzedakim, while the moich should be dachuk, and one has nothing to do with the other. The nafkamina would be taka the other way around. Let's say I did a moich dachuk before this zman. It wouldn't be good. I pasken it wouldn't be good. If you did a moich dachuk before this zman, it's no good. Why, why, why? Because you don't have the chorim tzedakah with the moich dachuk. Let's say you did before also. Yeah, let's say you did. Let's say you put together, so it's no problem. So let's say you did before this zman. What do you mean if you did before this zman? You said that you did the hefsek. I'm telling you, but if you did before this zman—I'm trying to explain—if you did before this zman, you put in a moich dachuk. That's the only thing you did. That's what I'm saying. It's the only thing you did. According to this, it's not good.

I have a different shailah. If someone wants to mekayem the inyan of moichtach, and makes a second bedikah bein hashmashos, bechayrim b'sadakin, a good bedikah bechayrim b'sadak, would you be yotzei the minhag of moichtach? According to me. According to me, you're not yotzei; it's a whole different bedikah. It would have to go all the way to the end, and it would have to be the kol bein hashmashos. It's a whole different sugya. But it's only beginning... Yeah. Could you just listen to this part? That in case — see, I know how to do it — in case you did a mamash a perfect bedikah. Let's say a lady is afraid to make a moichtach, yeah? Afraid to make a moichtach. It hurts or whatever. Should the rav be meya'etz that she should make a second bedikah to mekayem the moichtach, bechayrim b'sadak, a good bedikah too? Yeah. What? Make two bedikos, bechayrim b'sadak? No, make one for hefsek taharah and one for the moichtach. And the moichtach is where? Not bechayrim b'sadak. Sometimes I try to show you. L'choirah, if you learn this, not bechayrim b'sadak, you have nothing from it. Right, so what? I'm telling you a big yesod. The kol bein hashmashos is the bedikah of moichtach. It's a chelek of the bedikah of moichtach. You chapped it now? It's not to check if there's dam. If there, you'll find dam. It's to check mayan chasum, so you need time for that. How do you check if something's mayan chasum, mayan chasum? How do you check chasum? You leave it there. You have to leave it there. You can't do it enough. It's not a checking if you'll find dam; that's not the shaylah. The shaylah is if it's chasum. So the zman is a chelek of the shiur of what you have to check. You have to do bein hashmashos. Ah, so why do you have to do bein hashmashos? We have to talk about it. Okay. That's what I'm going to get to in a few minutes. Let's discuss when it has to be kol. Kol bein hashmashos. Mashma from the beginning to the end, starting from the beginning. Now, does it have to be kol, as Ashkenazim would say kol, or could it be kol like Sefardim? It's here, it's there. Mamish kol, with brisker kol. If you miss a minute, that's it. So the truth is, l'chatchilah it should be kol, or it could be kol. First, I don't care if freezing changes it; I have nothing to do with me. So change it. Put what you want. I used to care, but I don't care. I don't know. I don't feel this makes a difference. I fight to say the shiur because I'm tired, and it doesn't make a difference. Once you're fighting, so what's the difference? You're comfortable, you're not comfortable, it doesn't make a difference. I'm tired, it doesn't make a difference. Okay, you hear? So what is kol to me? Oh, he's your gabai. Oh. Wow. Sholom aleichem. ... Oh man. ... What is kol bein hashmashos mean? What is kol bein hashmashos mean? Mamash every minute? So the truth is, yeah, pashut is l'chatchila. You have one more minute. So pashut it means, mamash, ... you have ... claring, what bein hashmashos, ... two minutes, ... sixty minutes, ... Shabbos. They compare it to Shabbos. Or l'tziyun, 21 minutes. מסתמא it has to be ... with shkia and zachin and ... okay. Rabbeinu, 15 minutes, because the Gra, right, shkia according to the Gra, 15 minutes, it's good enough. Okay, 15 minutes.

What do I need? Does it have to be on shkia? Well, it has to be a minute before shkia, so from already by shkia you have. So he's going to think, The Bach, the Bach's not yeshiva. ... The Bach says, maybe you should do it before. You saw the Bach inside, you saw it, because you need kol bein hashmashos. It has to be bein hashmashos. Hmm? What does samuch mean? What does he mean by samuch? He means mamish that you should... Huh? A minute before, second before. You know, R' Moshe has an interesting teshuva. R' Moshe writes that you have about eight to nine minutes after. Nine minutes after. ... I don't... She's before, you have to look before. Bring the Bach. Bring it. Why don't you read the Bach for you, the Bach? Okay. Let me ask you. Is the ikur that it should be clean for the day? Is it about the day? Or is the ikur that kol bein hashmashos, which is the zman that you have to check, you checked. What is the bein hashmashos for? Kol bein hashmashos... Is it about the yom v'layla? Is it about the day and the night? Is the sugya of bein hashmashos day and night? Or the sugya of bein hashmashos is, since that's the zman you're going to start counting, that's when you're going to start counting the next day. So when it comes that day, at least you're checking, you know that it's clean. Is it about the bedikah or is it about the yom? You're a big lamdan. You want to say it, or you could say it. Go ahead, say it. Bein hashmashos is sof of the yom? We don't know. In other words, do we want a bedikah? What? Do we want a bedikah so that you're checked, and now you can start counting the yom? Or is it that the yom should be yom naki, so we're making sure that there's a nekiyus during the time when the day is coming? Yeah, this moment. How do you know this moment's from today? Maybe it's from yesterday. So kol bein hashmashos. Bein hashmashos is when it's sof of the day, sof of the laila. So the entire sofek yom, sofek laila. Maybe it's now, maybe it's now, maybe it's now, maybe it's now, maybe it's this moment. How do you know when the laila is? How do you know when the night started? One second. Maybe it started now. So you want to make sure that you're clean now. Is it for the bedikah, kol bein hashmashos, or is it about the yom? Okay, let me ask you a different question. You ready? Let's say they daven. ...and you must have it, and that means you have to take it out before ... because otherwise you can't start counting from the next day, because you're in a safek. Why would you be able to start counting? Also, that's what you just said, that you're allowed to count thinking that if it's clean, it's going to be good. That we spoke about. Every time you have a kesem, you go to a rav. How can you start counting? Maybe the hefsek taharah wasn't good. Taharah says you bring the child to the rav, and if he says it's good, then you start counting. Ah, you didn't know; you didn't know. It doesn't mean the metzius is not there. Let me ask you like this. Let's see the Shulchan Aruch HaRav in a case shedei daven Maariv early. Im hispallu Maariv—okay, they daven Maariv early. Read, read. Ramah, nu. Oh, she can't check, right? Why? For them it's laila. They started to daven Maariv, right? What happens, says the Ramah, v'yesh omrim—there's a different shita. What's the second shita? V'yesh omrim, mutar. So first of all, what's the machlokes? What's the shaylah? What's the two sides? Second of all, I want to know by Yom HaVes, they daven Maariv, I want a halacha l'maaseh.

Women has a vest on Chof-Gimmel. I don't daven Maariv, everybody, including her. So the Yom HaVest is for Chof-Gimmel at night. So she can't because it's night now? Or the other way around. Nighttime when it's supposed to finish. Huh? It's supposed to finish. You like the shaila? You like it? She can go daven Maariv early. That's... If you travel to Eretz Yisrael, it's a few hours difference. They talked about that also, but that doesn't bother me so much. That's tachan wherever you are. That's a different type of shaila. Here it's a different shaila. It's takke day. But, sachakim, we don't find this hispa'alus Maariv by vestos. This kasha bothered me all my life, all my life. Recently I got a teretz. I found a... What? We don't find this by vestos. Onot. Why don't we say the same thing? Dam ma'iriv. What happens in dam ma'iriv? He says a ma'areh degevart. He says that vestos is תלוי in yom velayla. Here it's תלוי in yom. When you daven Maariv early, what you daven Maariv is, you daven Maariv on the previous day. In other words, you daven Maariv, but it's not laila. Laila it's not. It's the next day, but it's not laila. It's the next day, but it's not laila. I told you the story. It's the next day, but it's not laila. I told you the story. The boxes. The Satmar Rebbe wanted to daven Mincha way after shkiah. So he asked Rav Moshe if he daven Mincha yet today. He says, Yeah, yesterday davened Mincha. The day changes. The day changes the Mincha d'mairev. The laila, by Sefiras HaOmer, if the olam's mekabel Shabbos early, can you say Sefiras HaOmer? Huh? For what? For Sefiras HaOmer. Again. So this is talui in Yom v'layla. I'm sorry, in days, while this is talui in Yom v'layla. This is Ksav Sofer, siman tzaddik. Ksav Sofer, beautiful Ksav Sofer. Okay. So listen carefully. Why is it talui? Okay, I'm going to tell you a chiddush, you ready? The hefsek taharah is talui in Yom v'layla, and the moich dochak is talui day and night. Which day it is. Again, the hefsek taharah is talui on what day it is. The moich... Tolin the zman. The hefsek taharah has to be b'yom, the day. Shevesikah b'taharah. The moich is tolin the zman. So one second, so if she davened Mincha Maariv, by hefsek, if she davened Maariv, it doesn't work. Lu yitzru, you were able to somehow institute the next night and it should still be the seventh day, should be able to make a hefsek taharah. Let me explain to you what I mean.

He said, he said, pshat. Oh, he said good? No, I'm saying you have to make ... Folks, I say ... In order for her to start counting shivah nekiyim, in order for her to start counting shivah nekiyim, could she start in the same day that she was once tamei? No. Is that tolin yom v'laylah, or is that tolin mispar hayamim? Is that tolin day and night? What's that tolin? It's tolin on the calendar. It has to do with the calendar. It has nothing to do with day and night. Depends. I have a different shailah. You know there are countries that there's seven, what do they call it, seven months day and seven months night? What's the name of those countries? Scandinavia. What's the name of the countries? You know the name of those countries? The North Pole, right? So how do you have hefsek taharah — I mean, how do you have shivah nekiyim in those places, huh? Twenty-four hours. White night. Leningrad, white night. Russia, there's a place in Russia like that. White night, meaning it doesn't get dark. Doesn't get dark. So how do you have shivah nekiyim in such a case? Let me ask you another shaila. I want you to work on this. A woman who does not have dam. L'maaseh, she doesn't bleed. Doesn't bleed. There's no bleed. She's menopausal, finished, no bleed. But she pumped was—she had a surgery, you hear? And the surgery made her needa. Does she need to have sefarim shivah nekiyim? Yeah? No. She's in menopause. Again? What did you say? She would need a bedikah b'moach. I love you. The shevet halevi says, Woo! You need bedikah? What do you need bedikos for? I said, bedikos to check, to check to see. What are you looking? There's nothing there to look for. You know she's not going to see. Me, I come and I say, Well, slow down, slow down. Is that what we said, the bedikah, the moach? The moach is to see if mayanah chasum or mayanah sagur, right? There's no mayanah sagur. There's not, right? No mayanah chasum. But the bedikah, I said, was what? To make sure that the dam that was metaher is not there anymore. Yeah? So she should check for that. Even if you know that there's no dam there, what's the difference? Kutshani. This is a kareis, paskening this. Even a woman who does not have dam, no—still have to make the bedikah. You won't need the moach, but you have to make it. It's exactly what I told you. And you know what my raya is? I'll tell you what my raya is. Could a woman make a hefsek taharah? Three days before she starts counting the shivah nekiyim. Yeah. The next seif, go ahead. Start reading the next seif. Go ahead. Days, let's go. First day. As long as she's mafsik, go ahead, read it. No. That's the chiyuv b'moch when there's only one day re'iyah. Go ahead. ... sheyom echad bilvad, ... tzrichah livdok ... That's how we see. ... Go ahead. ... סמוך לבין השמשות, ומצאה עצמה טהורה, אף על פי שלא היה המוך אצלה כל בין השמשות, ... אבל בדיקת שחרית לא מהני, ... רק יום אחד. יום שני הוא ... יום שני. What? יום שני is good. So was the hefsek taharah next to the yom taharah? No, it was the day before. You don't need that the hefsek taharah. As long as she made a hefsek taharah. How? He says it wasn't in the morning. She stops, she checks that morning, and she can start counting the following day. It's not two days.

Rasi yemecha b'vad, u'paska bo bayom, tzricha livdok atzmah me'och dachuk, sheyesh sham kol min hashmoshos. You have in a bedikah atzmah? It's daled? Ela pa'am achas ... no, it's not. No, it's—hey, maybe. Bedikah atzmah b'yom shepaskah melirot, u'matza temei'ah. U'bedikah lachar shlosha arba yamim, u'matza tehorah. ... no, it's not, no, it's not. It's beis here. V'rasah b'yomecha b'vad, u'paska bo bayom, tzricha livdok atzmah me'och dachuk, sheyesh sham kol min hashmoshos. V'yeved, bedikah atzmah samuch l'bein hashmashos, tehorah, af al pi shelo hayah mochezes k'bein hashmashos. Safek. Bedikas shacharis lo mehani, v'lo yatza rak yom echad. Bedikas shacharis does not help her, af al pi shelo ra'ah rak yom echad. But what happens in a case like this? What happens in a case she makes a bedikah, a hefsek taharah, and the next day, the next day, she starts counting the shivah nekiyim, does she need a moch dachuk? It goes like this: she makes the hefsek today, she didn't make a moch, she skips a day, and then the next day she starts counting the shivah nekiyim, so you don't need a moch. It's not the case of the Shach. Where's the case here? Here it is. What's this case? Right here, one second. Here it is. Yeah, let's do this bereitiv. Here it is. One second. Let's do this. Where's this bereitiv? Pischei teshuva. I want this Pischei Teshuva. Where does it start? Here, l'hakel. Mashkasa bereitiv, sheharia sherasa hoysta achat tefilos Arvis, b'od yom. ... sheyadayin yom, loi chamishi miyom hamachus. Like this. What would be this case? I got the case. Let's say she made a hefsek before the five days are up, so she can't start counting the shivah nekiyim. She stopped bleeding on the fourth day, right? She made her hefsek taharah, and then she's waiting one more day for the five, and then the next day, that's this case, the Pischei Teshuva. Im biyom chamishi lire'iyasa shaya dayoim, a chamishi miyom hamachar, b'zeh kasav, kivan d'lo shalom, maskil miyom vav, yesh l'hakel. Yeah. This is the case that they bring in the Pischei Teshuvah. Let's say she stopped bleeding on the fourth day. She makes a hefsek taharah, but she has to wait the fifth day because she can't start counting shivah nekiyim. So the hefsek taharah is good. The hefsek taharah is good. Unless she definitely didn't bleed. She knows she's not bleeding. That's it, she's clean. She made her hefsek taharah. Without moch, it's going to be good? No moch. So that's a different halacha. Once you have the next day, there's no moch. There's no moch. No, so I'm asking a question. How could it be that you have the hefsek taharah two days before? What is the hefsek taharah two days before? It stopped the bleeding. It's not about my... You're missing the point. There's one halacha, hefsek. There's no blood. Checked and there's no blood. It's not about the re'iyah. Moich dachuk is about the shivah nekiyim. Hefsek taharah is not about the shivah nekiyim; it's about the shivah temei'im, or the hatemei'im. Every hefsek taharah is to stop the tumah.

It's a stop in the tumah. You want to know if the shivah nekiyim started? That's moich dach. If you learn that it's all one, that there's a hefsek taharah, and with the hefsek taharah there's also shivah nekiyim. I'm sorry, there's also moich dach. With every hefsek taharah there's a moich dach. So the moich dach becomes a chumrah to the hefsek taharah. You want to know how to make the hefsek taharah that it should be strong? You make it by making a moich dach. But if you learn it's two separate things, so the moich is more about the yamim she'avru. That's the hefsek, and the moich is about the yamim shebo, the days that are coming. So for the hefsek taharah, do you need that it should be b'bein hashmashos, alts the bein hashmashos, or you need because it has to be when the other day ended? It's for the other day ended, so by doing a bein hashmashos you don't have anything. If you learn that the hefsek taharah is b'yom shepaskah liros, so you can't do a bein hashmashos. You can't do a bein hashmashos. But if it has to do with the shivah nekiyim that are coming— I'm not understanding something. If the chisaron is that you need that the days that have passed were clean, and it's finished, so you can't do it the next day bein hashmashos after shekiyah. You can't do it after shkiah, because when the Bach comes along and says that you should do everything before, and that the moich should be before that it starts kol bein hashmashos. Why do you need that it should be kol bein hashmashos? What would be the reason for kol bein hashmashos? It's to check, to make sure that the shivah nekiyim that start are always nok. If you learn that the hefsek taharah is about the yom she'avar, it's about the day that passed, it has to be before shkiah. It has nothing to do with the bein hashmashos. You cannot do more only bein hashmashos. You cannot do earlier. That's what we're trying to bring out. Let's say you do the— they daven Maariv. Let's make the cheshbon, they daven Maariv. So what day is it? It's the next day. In which halacha is it the next day? Not Yom v'laylah. It's the next day, and what's nogea to the mispar hayom? It's the next day. But it's still yom; it's not laylah, it's yom. If the point is that you need the laylah and the yom for the counting, so then you have to make sure that the laylah is complete, so then it has to be bein hashmashos; it doesn't do the yom. What is a hefsek? A hefsek taharah is that— Nifsak. What nifsak? Where is it nifsak? Which part is nifsak? Which? I'm saying from the yom, the day. But the day is not irrelevant, because you could actually do it two days. So it's not about a day. What is it? It's about nifsak before the shivah nekiyim started. So the yom velayla is irrelevant. If, let's say, shekiah sofek yom sofek. So why can't you say sofek should be good enough? So either you come and say because hefsek is d'Oraisa, we're more machmir. Maybe. And moich is less, so we're more meikel. Maybe the lomdus is hefsek is d'Oraisa, so therefore there's no bein hashmashos. But if you learn that it's a moich is d'Rabbanan, so you have the entire bein hashmashos to be clean, which comes out a chumra, which is not really true; it's the other way around, it's a chumra. Since a hefsek is d'Oraisa, so there's no sugya of bein hashmashos, so you can't do it by bein hashmashos. Mashenkein the moich is only d'Rabbanan, so the same reason why you could do it the whole bein hashmashos, right? Here, I'll give you another example. I want you to write this down.

Let's say I forgot to do the moich, and it's five minutes before bein hashmashos is up. Should I still do it? Huh? Comes out, yes, because the nekudah is not so much that you need the moich. The nekudah is the whole bein hashmashos should be there. So if you do a little bit, you do a little bit. Do they talk about this shaila? Let's say a wife wakes up, I didn't do the moich. You still have ten minutes. Go do it. Why do we call bein hashmashos? I don't understand. But it said kol bein hashmashos. When you do it, ask me, don't call bein hashmashos. That's it, period. Tell me something: you're supposed to fast for 24 hours, yeah? So if, let's, on a regular, 12 hours, you're supposed to fast 12 hours. What happens if you ate? Should you go eat now, finish? At least finish the rest of the day with the fast, no? If you didn't do kol bein hashmashos, should I at least do a little bit? It's telling you that's the period. That's the time frame. That's what I'm trying to tell you. If a guy misses ma'ariv, do five minutes, do it. Huh? They don't talk about it. I told some very big shaila. What happens in case that you missed? You didn't do it, and you still have ten minutes left. Go do it. They just tell you how many minutes you need. They don't argue about when you started, when you finished. And when I start, when I finish. So you want to start the day with the nekiyus, basically. That's right. You want to do a clear whole bein hashmashos. That's right. You didn't have the whole bein hashmashos. The heter of taharah is not so much the yom shepaska alts the yom. It's not a din for the yom. It's a din that in order to start the shivah nekiyim, it has to be that now it's paska. So lui yitzuyer, they daven Maariv early. Would there be a problem for the hefsek taharah? No. It lui yitzuyer they daven Maariv early. It's not in the Yom. Since it started in the Yom, it's irrelevant, right? If you start the Yom also we'll do a hefsek, I understand. I'm telling you a chiddush. If you did the moich, if you did the moich after they davened Maariv, yeah, and it's still Yom, and then you went, you did the hefsek taharah, it should be okay. Opposite. Change the order. I was thinking about that. Make the cheshbon. The moich is lgabei the bein hashmashos and light. You davened Maariv, so then it would be a shailah the next day. But the hefsek taharah — you chapped what I just said? The hefsek taharah is irrelevant for the day. It's not about the day; it's about now you're counting clean. When I start counting, I'm counting clean. So there's no zman lgabei the hefsek taharah. The problem is that I can't have the hefsek taharah the next day, because then I can't count the day. It's not a chesaron in the hefsek taharah. I can't count part of sheva nekiyim. When you chapt this, you're a gadol baTorah. You want to become a gaon in learning? Chap this. Tell me something: do I care that the hefsek taharah is the next day? Alts the hefsek taharah, or I only care that the hefsek taharah is the next day, alts the sheva nekiyim can't start in the middle? Alts the sheva nekiyim can't start in the middle. But the moich, which is a din in kol bein hashmashos... That the day should start b'tahaira, for that I care that it's the next day. I didn't do the meich when the day started. Actually, I say this: the meich is not going to help, basically, but it will help, and therefore just do the bedikah at least and you get it. At least you do the bedikah. Huh? If you learn it together... but it's kosher. Okay, let me tell you what we're going to do. What's... I don't know what tonight...