Hilchos Niddah: Bedikos for Hefsek Taharah and Shivah Nekiyim—The Eid, Chorim U’Tzedakim, and Depth

Transcript

Okay, let's start. Turn the pages. ... Six hundred hours. You can bring the ... Okay. Kol bedikos eilu, bein bedikas hefsek taharah, bein bedikas kol hashivah. And the reason why the Mechaber has to say this, because there are poskim rishonim that are mechalek between bedikas hefsek taharah and bedikas shivah nekiyim. If it has to be, bechorah u'vesadak. So if the Shulchan Aruch is going to conclude that there's a chiyuv bedikah l'cheira b'sadakin, it's a chiddush that it's called bedikas eilu. Bein bedikas hefsek taharah, bein bedikas kol hashivah, because this is machlokes and the Shulchan Aruch is paskening that there's no difference. That's why he begins, u'makdim, shehamedubar po lo chiluk, ein chiluk, lo mechulak bein bedikas hefsek taharah l'bedikas kol hashivah. Okay, so this is kol bedikas eilu, and that's why he stresses bein bedikas hefsek taharah, bein bedikas kol hashivah. Tzrichos lihyos bebeged, pishton, lavan, yashan. So here he brings a few nekudos: beged, pishton, lavan, and yashan. Mashma if it's not a beged, it's not good, right? Beged is something which is woven. What about if it's a raw piece of pishton, a piece of flax? Not good. It has to be beged, pishton, not a different type of beged. There's different types of beged: plastic, I don't know, we have a raincoat. Could you use a plastic beged? There's different types of begadim: synthetic begadim, cotton, that's semer gefen. That's the next case, semer gefen. You see, I'm showing you that if you medayik in the words, there's many, many—what do you call that? There's many chiyuvim. Not the word is not chiyuvim; I'm a little tired, I'm not getting the right word, huh? Criteria. There are many criteria. That is beged, pishton, lavan, and yashan. It has to be old. So it's mashma beged and not pishton, which wasn't nerag, because it's not a beged. It has to be lavan. What's called lavan? There's different types of lavan. I guess all shades of lavan. Maybe, let's say, a gray, like some things for ksamim is also not good. Some things would be okay for ksam, which means that it's not matzui. For example, a davar keהה, something which you can tell what the dam is. For example, yellow, they say, shades of yellow. Would that be good for bedikah? It's not clear. It says lavan. Is it the same halacha as like not kesem, right? Just like for a kesem, that's not called tzavua, something which you can see the dam. Maybe for a bedikah also, the nafkamina would be if, let's say, she has a T-shirt which is a color, which is not white, but it's off-white, or...

Yellow, which you could tell the dam, something which wouldn't be matzil for a kesem according to many poskim, could you use? Yashan, it has to be old. So again, old doesn't mean old. Old could also mean, according to the poskim, it was put in the washing machine. It doesn't necessarily have to be old; it has to be used. It can't be brand new. Okay, this is all stuff that you would see when you learn the Acharonim and poskim and mefarshim on the sefer Shulchan Aruch. I want to get to the yesod of the halachah, and lefi zeh come out with interesting chiddushim. What's the reason that you need beged, pishtan, lavan, and yashan? Where does it all come from? What's the reason for this? What's wrong if it's not a beged? What's wrong if it's not pishtan? What's wrong if it's not lavan? What's wrong if it's not yashan? What's wrong? What's the problem? So Rashi, daf yud zayin amud aleph, says that all of it is because if it's not all this, you can't see the white properly. I'm sorry, you can't see the red properly. You want it to be white, and that's white. A beged has to be nerag, pishtan, lavan, and yashan in order for it to portray the dam. You'll get a clear picture of the dam. If not, lo yitfos et hatzeva hanechonah vehaamitit. This is shitas Rashi. Lechem mishneh, right, the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch brings many rishonim, different reasons why. Many reasons why we have this halacha. The first thing he brings from Rishonim, Acharonim, that it has to be soft. Soft. It's not so much that we want white, but it's more soft. So beged pishtan, lavan, and yashan is about soft, okay? Why? Because if it's not soft, she can't make her bedikah. She's not going to do it. It's going to be very hard. Why? Because grada lavan. So lavan is the only one that has nothing to do with soft. Lavan, of course, is appearance, but everything else has to do with soft. So again, according to Rashi, it's all about white that gives you the color. According to others, like someone brings different shitos, that it's all about what, rabosai? Soft. Pishtan, beged, soft; yashan, soft; otherwise it's coarse, it's hard. Then he brings from the Rashba. It says that it's not so much that she can't make a bedikah; she's not going to want to make a bedikah. So she won't make a proper bedikah. It's not that it can't be used for a bedikah. She'll be afraid to make the bedikah with it. So therefore, we tell her that it has to be a beged rach, which is pishtan beged yashan. What's the machlokes between Rashi and the other Rishonim? Is it because we want lavan, we want the color? Or is it because we want that it should be rach, that she should make a good bedikah? You know what I think, rabosai? You can say, maram hachi, maram hachi lo פליגי. They're both discussing different pshatim. They're both right. The problem is not white; it doesn't make a proper bedikah. Or if it's not soft, it won't make a proper bedikah. We could come and say that there's bedavka, in shitas Rashi and bedavka in shitas Rashba and other Rishonim. There's a yesod. They're arguing what's the ikar of the bedikah. What's the ikar of the bedikah? So let me repeat again. You ready? Let's start again. We find criteria for the beged, the ed that's being used, and that is that it has to be beged. It can't just be a raw material. It has to be a made material, nerag, pishtan, afukei other materials, lavan, afukei other tzvaim, yashan, lafukei chadash, which is hard, lachora. So Rashi is going to learn that all this is because of the white.

Comes through on a beged, pishton, lavan, yashan. And white is how you can tell dam, detect the dam. The Lechem Simlah brings from other Rishonim that it's more about bedikah. The bedikahs won't be right, won't be thorough, if it's not going to be a beged, pishton, lavan, yashan. So pashut is they're not really arguing. All they're saying is two different points. They're both true, isn't it? Both true? Or maybe no. It's actually zeh luma zeh, that they're arguing in the yesod of what the chiyuv bedikah is. Now, I see that Reb Refael is looking over there. I don't mind. Does he say what I just said? Does he bring both shitos? Does he bring both de'os? Does he say that it's two shitos? Go ahead, read it. Read the two shitos, huh? I'm trying to find it. So maybe he doesn't say. He says it. I read it once, and I'm trying to find the place again. Aha, okay. Hevanta? Lo hevanta. Lo higshavta. Okay, lo higshavta. At least I marta emes. Okay. Aboysai, listen carefully. I'm trying to tell you like this. With what do you make a bedikah? Yesh—what do we call a criteria? How would I say criteria in Hebrew? Yesh? Huh? There's chilukim. Whatever. There's dinim that are—what's kosher. It has to be beged, it has to be pishton, it has to be lavan, it has to be yashan. And now, poskim עושים חילוקים. What's called beged? What's called pishton? What's called lavan? What's called yashan? Maybe beged doesn't have to be a beged. It means the outlet, the ikur is it shouldn't be pishtan, that maybe lavan, it could be tzvaim which are kosher for ksamim, which means that it's not mamash lavan, but you could tell dam, yashan if it goes into the washing machine, so even if it's chadash, it's like yashan. All very good. But what's the yesod of this halacha? So Rashi learns the yesod of this halacha is white, and the Rashba learns the yesod of this halacha is rach. Rashi, lavan; rach—sorry, Rashba, rach, soft. That's according to Rashi, it's white. According to the Rashba, it's soft. Soft, either it'll be a good bedikah, or she won't be afraid to make a good bedikah. You found it? Okay, read. Oh, see, he brings both stad, right? Like I said, either because beged is neherag, and even if it's neherag, it still has to be not chadash, yeah? יש מפרשים כי מפני הישנים הם לבנים ודם ניכר יפה בהם, אבל חדשים, וכן פשתן קודם שנארג לבגד, פנים לבנים. אין לבנים. They're not white. ואין דם ניכר בהם יפה. You can't tell to it; it's not a good thing to detect, yeah? יש מפרשים הטעם כי הישנים הם רכים, אבל החדשים, וכן פשתן קודם שנארג לבגד, הם קשים. According to Rashi, it's white. According to the Rashba and other Rishonim, it's what? What's the machlokes? It means soft. But see, it's not white and it's soft. It could also? That's what we're saying. That's the point. White is not color. How do we know the color? It's a dark color, not black but not white. But that's not the point. The point is you don't need that it should be chadash or yashan. But you have to know the bedikah. But the chadash and yashan has nothing to do with white. That's what he's trying to say. Kapada here of chadash and yashan has nothing to do with wine. We're not talking about wine. We're talking about chadash, we're talking about beged. What is that all about? According to Rashi, it's for the wife. According to the Rashba, it's for the... So I want to taina that you have to go to the yesod of these bedikos. What is the yesod of the bedikah? Is the yesod of the bedikah that we want somehow to see what's there. But how are you going to see? It's on the inside. So you do a bedikah, and the bedikah verifies what's there. So the bedikah is thus there to give me glasses to what's inside, to give me a telescope, so to speak, that I should get to where I can't see from the outside, to see what's going on on the inside. Or is it to be sofek? Are we trying to catch the dam? Are we trying to absorb the dam? Again, is it to see?

Is it to absorb, or is it to get to the cracks, l'choirim u'sadakim? What do I mean? L'choira, when you listen, it doesn't sound like one has anything to the other. Is it to see? Yeah, it's to see. Is it to get to catch the dam? Yeah, it's to catch the dam. Is it to go into the chorim u'sadakim? Yeah, it's to go into the chorim u'sadakim. So why am I making like three different things, right? I'll explain to you. If you take a look at the Shulchan Aruch, how do you make the bedikos? He says that you bring it in to— you bring it in. Read it, Rabbi. Tachnisenu b'oysam makom, omek l'chorim v'l'sadakim, ad makom shehashemesh dosh. Their— im yesh boi shum mareh admumis. Okay, so what do you do? V'tira im yesh boi shum mareh admumis. So there's two dinim. There's two things that we're saying that we have to do: omek, ad shehashemesh dosh, right? And chorim and sadakim. Those are the two things. L'maaseh, there's a machlokes rishonim if chorim u'sadakim is a chiyuv. According to the Rashba and Rosh, you have to taka go b'chorim u'sadakim. The Ra'avad paskens that l'chatchila, avada we try b'chorim u'sadakim, but that's not the chiyuv bedikah. The chiyuv bedikah is ad... Shaashamus dosh. That's it. Yeah? So the cherem sedakim is not the ikar. You knew this? You knew this, okay. According to some Rishonim, cherem sedakim is likuva; it's a must. According to other Rishonim, ad shaashamus dosh is likuva. But the opposite, the cherem sedakim is not. Okay. There's another machlokes among Rishonim. If ad shaashamus dosh is a chiyuv, according to the Chavos Daas, why do you need ad shaashamus dosh? According to the Nodah BYehuda and Reb Akiva Eiger, siman lamed daled, no. There's no chiyuv to go till where ad shaashamus dosh. You knew this? So why are you playing with your phone? Huh? Okay. Wasn't Nissan here? And he has given me some plain water. I'm very tired. Huh? No, just plain water. Huh? Of course yeshiva. Of course yeshiva. Okay, so again. According to one shita, cherem sedakah is chayiv likuvah, and according to the other shita, cherem sedakah is not chayiv likuvah. At the flip side, we have the other way around. Chavis daled paskens that you need ad shehashamish dos, while Reb Akiva Eiger, the Noda BiYehuda, say, nah, as long as you went unlike, as long as you went deep, it doesn't have to be mamish ad shehashamish dos. Let me ask you a question, my boys. The lashon of the Shulchan Aruch is interesting. Does the Shulchan Aruch say that you have to go ad shehashamish dos and the cherem sedakah? It says the other way around: v'tachtisenu b'oiso makom b'omek l'cherem l'sedakah, and the cherem sedakah was ad shehashamish dos. No, how far? Ad shehashamish dos. I hold this, I hold this, because Emes Lamit, I said it like years ago, and I always said, good stuff. You hear? It doesn't say you have to put it in ad shehashamish dos, and then you put it in b'cherem...

Don't say that. It says you put it in b'cheimer sadakin. How far in the chomer of sadakin do you have to put it? Ad shamash das. The implication is that chomer sadakin is not and shamash das. It's not a Tosefes to, like a better bedikah of hashamash das and also the chomer sadakin. It's a shiur in the chomer sadakin that you put it so far up, ad shamash das. The bedikah is actually b'chomer sadakin. What do I mean? Let's go into what exactly is a bedikah for. What's it for? So there's a Beis Yosef. The Beis Yosef says the reason for the bedikah, that in case there's any bleeding from the mekor, so in the beginning, which is makom shamash das, it would come out. That's where it would come from. Shamash das is mamash till the beginning. So if there's any bleeding, which is where it comes out from, which he calls the beis hachitzon, you saw the Beis Yosef, it's called the beis hachitzon. So therefore you have to check over there. So then it comes out that the ikar nekudah is what? Shamash das, right? If the whole tumah is— That it's coming from the beis harechem to the place where shashamish dash, and the bedikah, says the Beis Yosef, is what? To check for that dam. So the ikar is the shamish dash, no? The cheirem of tzedakim is that in case from there, maybe also. The Beis Yosef says clearly it's to check the dam that's coming out of the rechem to the beis hachitzon, which is makom shashamish dash. So avada the ikar bedikah, what is ad shashamish dash. The sefer Taharah says, Beis Yosef, I don't agree with you. I don't believe it's to check for now. Why? Because you're right, maybe now it's not, but maybe a minute before, yeah, and maybe a minute later, yeah. I mean, what? Every minute it's going to come out of the beis harechem to the beis hachitzon? So what do we do? It's to check if it ever did come out yet, for the avar, and the best place to check for the avar is where? Is in the cheirem of tzedakim, because that's where it lodges itself, if it did come out already, because it gets caught in the cheirem of tzedakim. So says the Taharah, ... Beis Yosef lo med. יסוד של הבדיקה, זה לבדוק עד שהשם, מקום של השמש דש, שם יוצא דם. אנחנו עכשיו לדעת, עכשיו, מה, עכשיו יצא משהו? לא, שום דבר יצא. So that's ikar bedikah. ומזה מתבאר לי שהוא יסבור שעד שהשמש דש זה יסוד הבדיקה. שכן, לפי הסדרי טהרה, הסדרי טהרה טוען, הרי מי אומר שזה עכשיו? אולי זה יצא לפני חמש דקות. אם זה היה יוצא לפני חמש דקות, it would get lost in the cheres hadakim. So checking the cheres hadakim is for the avar. So the ikar bedikah, according to the Sederi Tahara, is what? On the avar. במילא, where is it? It's in the cheres hadakim, right? Okay. In the Beis Yosef, you see that there's an ענין of עד שהשמש דש, huh? He says, אל הקרקע... Read, read it. No, no, go ahead. אל הקרקע. Read, אל הקרקע. ... שאין מוצאים ספק בחשש דם מצדדי הרחם למעלה, למקום שמגיע האצבע שם, וחורים ודקים של רקותי הרחם, ... כי זה gets lost over there.

So then the ikur becomes, I hold it so emes what I'm telling you, so the ikur becomes the cheremes hadakim. Only thing is, how far up? You have to go ad makom shehashamash dosh, because that's from where it's coming from, so you can get lost anywhere in the cheremes hadakim from there. But the ikur bedikah would be from the cheremes hadakim. Okay. I saw, I saw acharonim, partshimonim, how could it be that the ikur bedikah is for the avar? How could the ikur bedikah be for the avar? Yeah, but maybe now. Again, if let's say you go b'cheremes hadakim, so that's a raya for the avar. Yeah, but how could you not learn like the Beis Yosef, that the bedikah is for now? You want to know now she's clean. You don't want to know if a few minutes ago she was clean. How could it be a bedikah? You want to know she's clean now, right? So what, are you going to go check on something that happened five minutes ago? That's what you're checking. When she makes the bedikah now, it's to check that she's clean now. Hafsek taharah, she's making a hafsek taharah. Do both. Huh? Do both. You'll check if she's what's in there. Again, but that's not what she says. The sivur taharah comes along and tells me, I learned this, yeah, that the ikur is not to check for now. The ikur is to check for before. Who checks for before? The ikur is to check for now. What's it called? Who cares what happened five minutes ago? Shaila is what happened now. Huh? Question is now. Let's say five minutes ago she didn't see. Maybe now she sees. I don't know. I thought this whole case was talking about shevuah נקיים, not hefsek taharah. She what? I thought this case was shevuah נקיים, not hefsek taharah. It's everything. Go back to the Shulchan Aruch. It's both. It's hefsek taharah, it's everything. I mean, right now, the bedikah. How can there be a sevara bedikos for something that happened before? We're talking about now. It's not a raya from now. How is checking chumras bedikahs נקיים for now? Because she can't have any dam in her. Who cares when it came out? Cherev v'sedakin means that maybe now it's coming out. Cherev v'sedakin is to check something that came out. Why is it that way? It is. I just need to make sure she has no dam in her. Why should I care when it came out? In her could mean that it's in her from before, but it could be that it's coming out right this minute. So you need both. You have to make sure. You don't have both. That's what he's trying to say. Yeah, but if you're not going to check the chumras bedikahs, how do you know if tomorrow morning you're going to check, you see the chumras bedikahs dam, how do you know if it came from the shemesh dochak, from the chumras bedikahs? And if you see it's red on the clothes, how do you know where it came from? אתה חייב לנקות את הכל, כי אם לא, אתה לא תדע... אבל זה משהו לא אומר. אם היה אומר, don't say that. It's all wonderful, we don't say that. That's good. If he would say that, it would be good. That's not what he says. How does checking chumras bedikahs tell me about now? Chorim tzadakim tells me that before. Okay, go ahead, read. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be reading. Whatever you want. You read what you want. You tell me your kashas. I don't have any kashas. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. No kashas. I understand. Somehow, somehow, chorim tzadakim, the shamash dosh is avar and hoiv. That's what you see, that chorim tzadakim and shamash dosh is avar and hoiv. Chorim tzadakim is for the avar, and the shamash dosh is for the hoiv. And the shamash dosh is for the hoiv. So let's see, get inside. How does the Shulchan Aruch tell me? V'tachnisenu b'oyso makom. I understand, why can't that—I'm trying to clarify, maybe that's what it is. I'm saying, obviously one is for the avar and one is for the hoiv, and maybe you're doing both. Let's see. V'tachnisenu b'oyso makom b'oimek, v'chorim l'tzadakim ad makom shehashamash dosh, not because of the chorim tzadakim. He's just telling you the order. You go b'chorim tzadakim, and then...

You go all the way, Hashemish does not, because it's a shiur in the chomer ha-tzadakim. Okay, let's start again. You want to compare Rebbe's girsa, because we have a little different girsa than Rebbe has. By me, in my Shulchan Aruch, when it says, Makom, v'omek l'chorim ul'tzadakim. By Rebbe has it, v'l'chorim. It doesn't say ve. Not here, but here it does. I have the girsa in my... V'l'chorim. Very good. Also, because then it could be mashma that it's after. What's the text? Omek, also chorim ul'tzadakim. See, I want to tie this to Chishulach. The nafka mina would be, and then I'm going to go back to explain it. I'm not moving away till you get this, because it's beautiful what I'm going to say. I want to know if the chorim ul'tzadakim first, on the way up to get to the omek, or to the omek and then to the chorim ul'tzadakim. Do you like it? It's a shaylah how to read the Shulchan Aruch. I don't think any of the acharonim talk about it. I said maybe, maybe you can learn it, or the other way you can learn it is stop, l'chorim ul'tzadakim, stop, and add makom should, because that's not for the chorim ul'tzadakim anymore. Separate, you have to go add makom shehashamayim... Huh? I don't know, I don't know. This is the way I have it here. This is the way I learned it all my life. If he didn't mention the old one, it's different. Maybe it's just printed. I don't know, maybe. What should I tell you? I don't know. That's the way we have the girsa, l'chorim ul'tzadakim. Do you? What about your Shulchan Aruch, like us? He must have. No, no, no. Everybody, all of ours has the same girsa. The old ones are all this girsa. All the new ones have v'davka, but all the new ones have vudavka. I just want to see the black, the one that came out this year. Okay, so do your homework. Reb ... Reb ... Now you know what I'm saying. I'm saying, here, here, smack, smack. Okay, okay. Good. You have to hear smack. Again, let me repeat. I learned the din in Shulchan Aruch. Let's talk all through again. I don't care, say it again. It's so beautiful. You need a bedekin, and you need lavan, and you need the pishtan, and you need that it should be yashan. Rashi learned it's all about color, white, white. It has to be about tzemer. So what's the machlokes? So you know, you could say there is no machlokes. It's both true. You need it to be white, you need it to be soft. And grada, each one says a different nekudah. It's not mashma. It's mashma because to him the lavan is more important, and to him, to the Rashba, the rach is more important. That's what I want to do. According to Rashi, what's more important? Lavan. According to the Rashba, what's more important? Rach. What's the yesod of it? Is the yesod of the bedikah to catch? Catch. ... All of the yesod of the bedikah is cheir mesadak. So you're saying, but both are true, no? Let's talk a little. A shitah says—now let's talk different. One shitah said, learns the ikar of a bedikah is cheir mesadak. If you don't have cheir mesadakim, not good. Rosh, other Rishonim, Rabbeinu Yerucham, I think, holds like this. The other shitah is, no, cheir mesadak—al nefesh, but ra'ui. It's good to have cheir mesadakim; it's only good, it's not a chiyuv. So is it l'ikuva, not l'ikuv, machlokes Rishonim. What are they arguing? Why does one hold it must be and one other one holds, no, there's kefel? We find another machlokes: ad shehashemsh dosh. Does it have to be according to many...

Without that, you don't have a. According to many Rishonim, Yehuda, kiveikar, shemefelach. Even if it's not that fara, as long as you put it in. Yeah? So either chiyuv tzedakah is likuva, or ad shehashamesh dash is likuva. Like I said, the yesod learns that the ikur is to find now. Now, now let's get down to where it comes out from. Where is that? That's ad shehashamesh dash. Lefi zeh, and l'chanami, the ikur would be ad shehashamesh dash. So if Tairus says the ikur is the avar, what's the ikur, the avar? Because then it would go l'chumra l'tzedakah. So according to him, it comes out l'chumra that the ikur is chiyuv tzedakah. You got a peleh. How could the ikur be the avar and not the chovah, but he doesn't care about... he doesn't care about what, Rabosai? The shamesh dash? The other way around, Beis Yosef, you don't care about the avar? You don't want to know what? Where does the Divrei Yosef says that that makom shehashamesh dash is lav davka because it's impossible? He says it clearly. No, but he says that the whole thing is l'beis hachitzon, and that's mamash almost... So it's not mamash. That's what it means. You do as much as you could, but the nekudah is to where the beis hachitzon is. The chiyuv tzedakah on the side is not the main thing. The main thing is to see now, there's blood coming. It's clear in the Beis Yosef, you're checking now for dam from the rechem, that's what you're checking. Is it dripping? L'sheikei, according to Seder Taira, you're checking avar. The meileh, the ikur is chiyuv tzedakah. This is clear. This is a clear... Others ask, how could it be the avar and not the chovah? So the truth is... It says the Shulchan Aruch both. It doesn't say chumras tzedakim only. It says chumras tzedakim and shamash dash, right? It says both. So let's take a look. Do you mean in the Shulchan Aruch that you put it in l'chumras tzedakim, and that's the bedikah, and the shiur is ad sha'ashamash dash? That's how we would bedayek originally. I dilma, should we read the Shulchan Aruch as a stop? You have to put it in b'omek. And even according to your girsa, it's even better: b'omek, stop, u'l'chumras tzedakim, stop, ad makom sheha-shemesh dash, stop. And the pshat would be, it's not a shiur in the chumras tzedakim. It's not a shiur in the chumras tzedakim. It's a thing for itself, ad sha'ashamash dash. What would be the nafka mina? It could be like this: do you put it in l'chumras tzedakim on the way to the shamash dash, or do you do it the other way around? You put it in ad sha'ashamash dash, and then you go for the chumras... Two bedikos? No, same bedikah. Even as you go up, you go l'chumras tzedakim. So why can't you follow the order that he's giving you? Because you have an insurance order. Order could be only period, u'l'chumras tzedakim afterwards. Yeah, and then— No, and what's called ad sha'ashamash dash. Is it possible to know— Yeah, I could tell. Yes, you could. You should be able to tell if you're a good rav. So you'd be able to tell if the direction was from downtown up to down? Yeah, I could tell. So you'll know the order of the way. I could tell. First of all, I don't really care. I'm just answering you because you bothered me for no— I'm not asking what the— There's nothing to ask. Just first let's see what it says. Have you ever seen mafka mina? I didn't say there's a nafka mina. I just said, is the bedikah chumras tzedakim, and d'rabah the chumras tzedakim all the way ad sha'ashamash dash, or you go to the chumras tzedakim? I'm sorry, the shamash dash. Then— Right. You know what the nafka mina al peh of the nafka mina is. What happens if a woman has trouble going to makom chayim tzedakah, and it hurts her? She can go all the way up, it's no problem. But if she starts rubbing around, it hurts. Should you say, you know what, at least she got a makom shasham is dust; it's good enough, and forget about the chayim tzedakah. Or I could say it the other way around: it hurts to go all the way up, but she can go b'chayim tzedakah. If the ikur is the ovar, and it's the chayim tzedakah that it falls, it says all the way up on the sides. If, for example, she—

It's a petza. She has something that hurts her in the place which is shamash-dosh. It hurts. Maybe it's not a problem. You know when they bring this case, I'll tell you they bring this case. They bring a case, there's a petza in the makom shamash-dosh. The other way around, there's a petza on the sides. So what do you do? You poke a shveiferes. You put it all the way up to makom shamash-dosh, right? I'm telling you, this is telling you the shayla. If the chorem said dagim, but you don't have any, what do you have? If the ikur is the shamash-dosh, so you have. It all depends on what the ikur is. Is the ikur the bedikah, the chorem said dagim, and you don't have any? You closed it up, so what do you have? If the ikur is the shamash-dosh, so you have. What happens the other way around? Makom shamash-dosh, mamash, it's too hard. It hurts. You know where you have this a lot? By kallah, she can't go up by makom shamash-dosh. So her bedikah is b'chorem said dagim, and she can go. What about a yevidah? Huh? It's also a case. It's one of the cases. That's where Moshe brings the case. A yevidah, she can't go up. So it's one of the cases, I'm telling you. You can't go up at makom she'elah, you can do the chorem said dagim. So if the ikur is the chorem said dagim, so you do that. But if the main thing is the makom shamash-dosh, so not to do any of it is not a bedikah, just to say. So chorem said dagim, you come to most of the chorem said dagim. I did as much as I could. But you can't say I did as much as I could of makom shamash-dosh by doing chorem said dagim, which is not even close to makom shamash-dosh. I'm like, it's a teshuvah about it. The nafkamina is, is the ikur the bedikah, makom shamash-dosh. Or is the ikar the bedikah, wat garshan, chayrim u'sadakim? So therefore that's the shaylah: is the likuvah the chayrim u'sa dakin, or is the likuvah the makom shehashamesh dash? Now, if you can't go up, so if you hold the ikar is the chayrim u'sa dakin, so you can't do both. So it can't go up, and you can't... so then what do you want to do? You want to not do bedikah, so what should I do? Huh? There's a shitah, there's a special—if you can't, you do as much as you could, and then you have to do a rov if it's enough. There is certain enough which is enough. Okay, now, what's wrong? What's wrong? Hello, what's wrong? Are you here? You bother? It's beautiful, no? Are you missing? Shameh zacher, hear it. Why'd you write this down? This would never get supplies to the first... It's only sefer Torah. All this I says in the sefer Torah? Yeah, let me hear. Did you say this last nekudah? This, when Rebbe was speaking about the sefer Torah, he spoke on Chelsea's different yoser, and said this psak. What? He had a problem in Korim, they blocked off one side, and he paskened, just go up, check on the top, and finished. And she was asking this question. He says, B'zayin... I understand. It's only to check mayim... He says, zayn... Okay, and what about the nekudah of how to read the Shulchan Aruch? Ah, that you don't—because that's mine. It's not the... it's not that... But this, I want to say a chiddush, chiddush. Of course the nafka mina is l'chatchilah u'bedi'eved, right? Meaning, if you do the chayrim u'sa dakin, you do b'shaas shemesh dash. If the ikar is the chayrim u'sa dakin, so bedi'eved it's kosher. Or if you learn the other way, so then bedi'eved it's kosher the other way. You didn't do the— you heard, so you should do the chayrim u'sa dakin. Okay. There's a gevaldig Chasam Sofer. Kibalti — Chasam Sofer. How are you supposed to make the bedikah? Standing. It's supposed to be done standing. Why? Not laying down, not laying down. Chasam Sofer says that in case she lays down, in case she lays down, it might go back. The dam. If it came out now and she's laying, it might go back. Whatever, it's not gonna drip down. It's not gonna catch it, okay? The what? If she's laying down, it's not gonna drip down. Read the Chasam Sofer inside. Kibalti, no? But he doesn't explain it that way. If she's what?

It's a machlokes haposkim to start with. Many in extrastral holders, it's really... If you don't do it, stay in the United... I'll explain to you where that comes from. Go ahead, Nu. It's on the side of the Shulchan Aruch. Kibalti, kibalti... Nu. Go ahead, read the Chasam Sofer, Nu. You have it on the side of the Shulchan Aruch. You don't have the Chasam Sofer? Oh, they don't keep the... You have it. No, you don't have the Chasam Sofer on the side. See, this is what they do. You know, they try to make it fancy for you, and the way it works is... Okay, where's the Chasam Sofer? Is he bringing it from somewhere else? Here, he brings it here. Huh? Go ahead, Chasam Sofer, Nu. Kibalti... No, it says kibalti. Where's that? Go ahead and say where it is. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Kibalti... Kibalti. Where's that? Shimshat habdikat hamot v'raglav... Where's that go? Say where it is. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Shimshat habdikat hamot v'raglav echad al kisei o al hashulchan. Okay, the kid's supposed to stand. Why? Why do you have to stand? It's very important to stand. And the answer is, pashut because in case she's slain... Huh? That's the one hand. What about the standing? Standing is קל. He has to get down. Just Leah says that the reason is, because otherwise it might go back. Okay, now. ... It says it very clearly. ... What do you have here? It is. ... It says it clearly. It says it clearly. ... Yeah. ... It says it clearly. ... I see, he says this. I want to say this. You hear? Okay, so let's go by him. So you have to do it b'amidah. Why? What's the chiyuv amidah? So let's make a... Amidah means you can drip down. If you're doing it b'makom ... so then you're catching it when it came out. You're catching it when it came out. ... It should make a difference, right? Let's say you can put it over there. You're catching it when it comes out. So what's the difference if you're laying over... You don't need to drip down. Huh? Same thing with... Wait a minute, wait a minute. Unless you say that it's shayach to metzius, you can't mamish go. It can come out, it can go back. You're not going to catch it, mamish the top of makom shehashamish. Right? So when you look at the chomer mesadam, what are you looking? You're looking in case dam was zav. So if you do it b'shchivah and it came out, so the dam can never be zav for the chomer mesadam, because it's not zav; it's you're laying flat. So where does it run? It stays. Where? At the opening. It stays. You're talking about a drop of blood. It stays. If you're going like, if the bedikah is at makom shehashamish...

There's no chiluk between laying and sitting; really, it's not chiluk. What the bedikah is for the cherem sedakim. So what are you catching in the cherem sedakim? But the sidur tahir only the afar? Of course not, no, because it can't be only for the afar. It can't be for the afar. It always is. You're never going to know that. I don't hold that. See, that's what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not sure. When I looked up the Shulchan Aruch, I was trying to tell you it's very possible that it's the afar and the hevel, because there's two places where you check. No, you see, that's not what I'm trying... Ad makom she... It's like this: could you go ad makom she... You can never go there anyway. But what you could do is go to the cherem sedakim that are in the place where that makom she... Why wouldn't you be able to get to them? That רבי עקיבא איגר says. That's right. רבי עקיבא איגר says, שאם בדיקה בולו ורשא אינו ראוי כרגע, ולכן צריך לבדוק עד מקום דישת השמש. אלא שכיוון שעל פי רוב אין לחוש להכניס יד עד לשם, יצריכו בדיקת חורי מסדקים כדי לברר שפסק הדם מלוז. והוסיף שכך כתב סדרי טהרה בתם הדם. That's what רבי עקיבא איגר learned it up. רבי עקיבא איגר had this kashya. Choira, according to you, ... this is for the afar, but you want to know about now. You don't want to know about the afar, so you don't mean afar. You mean afar of the hevel. How do you know he's just not just saying it? Do you have a different thing? Since you can't check that it's happening now, ... make sure that it didn't happen the whole day. There's nothing like that. I'm saying maybe that's what he's saying now. You can't go up all the way to see what's now happening. It's impossible. ... checked that she wasn't dirty that day, and מסתמא she stayed that way. That's how it says. That's what I heard. I'm saying it's not רבי עקיבא איגר. Take the Mekubei ... The ... say that the checking of the chorim v'sadakim is another way of checking at makom shehaShechinah mishdash, but that can only be if you're standing. If you're laying, you don't have in the chorim v'sadakim the checking of at makom shehaShechinah mishdash. When you're laying down, you're going to have to go at makom shehaShechinah mishdash. So I want to say a chiddush. I want to hear baalei chiddush. If it's possible to reach that at makom shehaShechinah mishdash, and a chanami if you lay. Huh? Oh, you learn the second thing, that it goes back. The nafkamina would be if you could reach it. So if it's only because you can't reach. Let's say you could reach it. Let's say you're doing it with something, with an utensil. That she knows now. If, for example, I was clarifying like this: let's say you have a doctor who's doing the bedikah for you. That's going to do — that's the bedikah. Going to doctor do the bedikah. Likewise, possibly you're allowed to do that. The seventh day you go to a doctor, that's your bedikah, fine. You don't stand, you're laying. So point of chasam sofer, you're not yotzei. So first of all, you come and say the Chasam Sofer is not ... He only said lechatchilah. But he brings acharonim, poskim, Knei Bosim. What's — he brings a big poskim, ... Branzdorf. Branzdorf. Branzdorf is the place of all the white guys. The guys who walk around in white, huh? All the zeves, they call them zeves, all the zeves. ... Hu hapaalach. Hamalachim. Hu hapoisek shel malachim. ... All right, kasha. You don't do this. You don't. So I learned that could be the shochet is a different problem. Maybe the shochet is a problem that it goes back. If the shochet is a problem that it goes back, I think since R' Eliezer learns like this, then even with the eved you're not yotzei. If you learn the problem is that it comes out, then it has to be ... So, lu yetzuya, lu yetzuya, yeah? Lu yetzuya, she goes to a doctor. Doctor's not going to make her ... unless she says.

He goes all the way in to the pia. That's what I'm telling you. It's telling the shaila. I'm taining he goes in anyway, so there's no story. That's what I'm taining. It's a chiddush. But the Chasam Sofer's not the gear because you go in all the way in. Unless you say it might go back. Say it might go back, that's all the. If you go back, if you go all the way in, you still can't reach. I'm saying if you go to check till there, but it goes back. Maybe it goes back. If you're laying flat, maybe it goes back. It doesn't really laying; she just... fine. The opposite, the third character. No, the third character. You're laying in a way, in a position that... it's not even laying flat; it's more than flat. The laying is even more than flat. It's laying tilting upwards, tilting the other way, that the head is tilting facing down and the feet are facing up. Again, if you learn the Chasam Sofer's taam is, which is brought down in Acharonim, many Acharonim learn like this, it comes out might go backwards. So then, and a chinami, in the doctor's chair it's not going to help you anything. But if you learn it's because you need zav to get to the chayrim mesandakim, so where you taka go ad makom meshashamesh dash, it's b'chalal not so. What's the nafka? The nafka is this yesod, that it's very shayach the chayrim mesandakim is another way of checking ad shashamesh dash. It's the whole other way of learning the sugya. You check, you hear, b'oimek l'chayrim u'lusadakim ad makom shashamesh dash, because that's how you check ad makom shashamesh dash, through the chayrim mesandakim. That's why the Shulchan Aruch talks about the chayrim mesandakim. Again, either the pshat is like this: tatlisenu b'oiso makom b'omek, and that is makom shehashamesh dash, and also l'chayrim ulsadakim. Or the pshat is, you're checking l'chayrim ulsadakim, and then I ask you, but what do you mean, makom shehashamesh? So he teretzes two different things: chayrim ulsadakim, and then ad shehashamesh dash. A dilma, if I care, it's all hagdarah in chayrim ulsadakim. So I ask the kashya: so why is hagdarah—according to Kiveiger, it's gorer gishmak—because the etzem, you're really only checking the chayrim ulsadakim. Like, checking the chayrim ulsadakim, that's how you have makom shehashamesh dash. Really, that's what Reb Kiveiger is saying. Not shayach to get to there. So how do you ever check what was there when she's omed? Okay, go ahead, say it. Say it in two ways to learn the shulchan aruch. I'm not saying it's the reading of the Shulchan Aruch. I know, but that's what you would have to say. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Get up and say the two, three pshatim. Let's go. Shulchan Aruch says you're supposed to do the bedikah b'omek uvchorim ulsadakim ad makom shehashamesh dash. The shaylah is whether it's two separate things: you're supposed to go deep and also chayrim ulsadakim, or she's supposed to go chayrim ulsadakim עד where? Ad makom shehashamesh dash. Because makom shehashamesh dash is not a separate place; it's a shiur in where chayrim ulsadakim end, meaning that's how thorough she has to be. So if you learn that the ikar is the chayrim ulsadakim, so then it's beautiful, so it's chayrim ulsadakim till. But if you learn you takke need ad shehashamesh dash, which is what kashya, chayrim she always really need, so the teretz is either like Reb Kiveiger, because that's the only way—the way you have ad shehashamesh dash is by chayrim ulsadakim—or the pshat is you can never get to shehashamesh dash; at least you have the chayrim ulsadakim. Yeah, but eina chanami, takanah, a shamash dosh. Possible, but it's not possible. So therefore, it comes out a chiddush. Lu yetzuyor, you can get a shamash dosh, so then you don't need the cherem sadakim, so then you don't need the whole sam soyfer, unless you learn the sam soyfer is based on it going back, so then it has nothing to do with cherem sadakim. It has to do even in a shamash dosh; you can never catch a shamash dosh either. What would be the nafkamina? I have three nafkaminas I want to discuss. Let's say you want to make a bedikah not with a cloth, with your finger. Use your finger. So you see your tahor. No good. Beged. Lama? You can tell dam? No, you can tell dam on the color of the skin, no? But it's going to make it ... It's not kolet; it doesn't catch blood. What? He doesn't say ... He doesn't say on the bottom. He says he's not 100% sure. He brings maybe it's this, and maybe it's this, or maybe it's that on the bottom. He brings this ... He brings this ... and he says he doesn't know which one is it. Is it because it's not white? Is it because it's not kolet? Is it because it's not a beged?

Which reason is it? Why can it be all? Huh? Maybe it could be all. Huh? All. Kulam. You know what I hold? I hold—that's why I started the shiur with—I want to know what the ikur is. Is the ikur the cheirem of tzedakim? Is the ikur to catch the dam? Is the ikur to check the dam, check what's in the dam? Hey, I have a shaylah like this. Lu yitzuyur—I once spoke to you about this—lu yitzuyur the bedikah didn't catch the dam, but it made the dam fall out of the fellow... Are you trying to take the dam out? Dam should be from there; it should be here now? It should be on this? Or are you trying to get to find out what's going on inside? Or are you trying to dig into the cheirem of tzedakim? Read on the bottom what he says. Read—it's the first... on the first... He doesn't know what the reason is. What's the shaylah? Maybe dam is davuk. Who says dam is davuk? What do you need that for? Because it's clean. Oh, it'll come out. Meanwhile, I don't believe... I don't believe that there's no trace of blood. If there's something going like this, pulling, cleaning it out, you go and you put... Coming out, coming out, right. And there's other liquids there also. Okay, go ahead, next. O mishum she'eino lavan, u'ba'inan eid... O mishum she'eino nichnas heitev b'kol hachorim v'hazdakim. What's the ikur? Is it tzedakah? Okay, two more points I want to bring out, and then I want to leave. You ready? How big, how big does it have to be? Huh? How big does what? How big does the aid have to be? Some say it has to be three by three. Shenaked, bedek is three by three, right? They give shiurim, acharim a busy, sheva, aleivi, they give shiurim, yeah? If it's to catch makom shehashamash dash, then what does the shiur have to be? Anything. If it's about the chomer tzedakah, so the ikur is the finger to go around, as much to cover the finger. I hope that's the shaylah of the shiur. The shaylah in the poskim what the shiur is: do you want shamash dash, you want chomer tzedakah? And the shiur of the aid will be talui. Final last thing: what happens if you use one of those things that... suction cup. Not a suction, the thing that comes for a shot, a syringe. A syringe suction. Put it in, and yes, you go all the way up makom. You can't miss. You go mamash all the way into the makom shehashamash dash, okay? And you pull out, okay? Oy yoy, it's not a beged. But you can't get a better bedikah than that. You can't get a better bedikah than that. If you're afraid of the shamash dash and the chomer tzedakah is all about what, rabosai, just to get the shamash dash. Maybe, I’ll invent a new type of bedikah. I want to taineh Rav Abadi’s, under Rav Abadi’s auspices, a new type of bedikah. We’ll use a syringe to get in there and suck out the dam from the beis makom shehashaon. But if the bedikah is the chumra of chatzitzah, you won’t have it. I’ll tell you this shailah: could you use a syringe? The first shailah would be the doctor who gets up b’chumra of chatzitzah, and it’s not b’shchinah. I’m sorry, it’s not b’amidas b’shchinah. You say it might go back— No, there’s no shailah he could go chumra of chatzitzah also, but that’s not a problem. But the second shailah is this: could you use a syringe to get into the— it’s not going b’chumra of chatzitzah. He could go mamash al makom shehashaon. What’s the reason for the beged? It’s because you have to be teikef, you have to be sofek. Ein lecha sofek gadol mizeh. You have to see the dam; ein lecha re’iyas dam gadol mizeh. Is it rach because of chumra of chatzitzah, or is it lavan because of— that’s the color.

You're supposed to be this way. A woman that has a beza, she has pain in her finger for whatever reason. Maybe her finger hurts. She has a problem with her finger. A woman that has a cast, she can use a syringe. Big chidush nifla. You like it? Have a nice day. How do you close this toy? This top button. It has a box in it. It looks like a box here with a box.