Hilchos Kesamim: Combining Separate Blood Drops Into Shiur Kigris on Clothing and Skin

Transcript

The ketes. B'makom echad kigris v'od. Af al פי שיש שם טיפין הרבה סמוכים זה לזה, עד שמצטרף יש בהם יותר מכגריס, טהורה. ... עד שיהא בו כגריס ועוד, במקום אחד. ויש אומרים, דהני מילי כשנמצא חלוקה, ... מצטרף מכגריס ועוד, ... So this already is a diyun in the Acharonim. Whenever he brings two shitos, stam v'yesh, so we pass like the stam. But the Chashukei Chemed says not like that. You saw the Aruch HaShulchan? Bring the Aruch HaShulchan. The Aruch HaShulchan says, yesh omrim. How do we pasken? How about se'if lamed ches? Let's try se'if lamed ches. That's k'matim, so then the one before here. Here it is. Here it says, Aval milashon Rabbeinu Beis Yosef... Okay, he says like this: Kasav Rabbeinu Beis Yosef, d'yesh omrim, d'zeh davka k'shenimtza chaluka, ... v'af she'ein mechubar, k'loimar, d'b'zeh nodim b'psul hachaluka. V'yesh ... shehikria k'dei zu. The Bach, the Bach is machria. אבל מלשון רבינו הבית יוסף מבואר דספילה לדינא כדעה ראשונה. He holds like the דעה ראשונה. ולכן כתב לדעה זו בשם יש אומרים כדרכו בקודש. So this is the klal, that whenever he writes יש אומרים, he's paskening like the stam. ובאמת ספרת היש אומרים תמוה, המנפשך, כיוון לספרי הרמבם, נצטרך שיהיה בבשרה, אלא בשרה וכחלוקה, כן למה יש חילוק בעניין זה? I don't understand בכלל how it works. הנה מחלוקתם תלוי בסוגיא, הש"ס, המקום הגמרא תמוה. Okay, so we pasken, he says, like the first shita, because whenever there's a יש אומרים, we pasken like the stam. Rav Ovadia also brings this klal. We're not holding by mechubarim. We're holding tipin tipin which are not mechubar. Tipin tipin, not mechubar, not yet. We didn't discuss mechubarim. Okay. Now, what's taam of the sevara of the יש אומרים? What's taam of the sevara of the יש אומרים? Now I have another shaila. Let's learn the lashon: אין בכסם במקום אחד כגריס. Why did he just say, אם אין הכסם במקום אחד? אין בכסם במקום אחד כגריס. If the kesem doesn't have in one spot a gris. Just say if the kesem is not in one spot. Does he learn that it's all taka one kesem? I understood from him that he learns, yes, it's all one kesem. The only thing is, the kesem doesn't have in one spot kigris. Am I right? This is called reading. Zeni kriyah, likrot. He says it. If he meant simply that the kesem is not in one place, let him say, Ein ha-kesem b'makom echad, it's not mitztaref l'kigris. Teretz is it is one kesem, but the kesem doesn't have in one spot kigris v'od, af al pi sheyesh some tipin harbeh, sham. What does yesh sham mean? Huh? Interesting lashon, af al pi sheyesh sham. What is he referring to? Back, I guess, the kesem maybe. Af al pi sheyesh sham in the makom echad, in the kesem echad, tipin harbeh. Again, it's back to—it's not tipin harbeh, it's sham. In the makom echad there's tipin harbeh. So what happens if the tipin harbeh are bichlal not sham? It's not going to not one kesem. Would then be by psara different.

Maybe the yesh omrim is only in the sham. That's what I was clarifying. I'm reading good, you know. Most people don't read like this, you know, most people read. Okay, let's see what the Taras HaBayis says. Okay, you didn't read the Shulchan Aruch. Shulchan Aruch is very clear. It's not even a diyuk. It's not a diyuk. It's the reading of it. Ein b'keses. Hakeses echad, aval im laketem hazeh b'makom echad, kigris. Af al pi sheyesh sham, peirush, laketem echad, yesh sham tipin tipin, סמוכין זה לזה, עד שמצטרף מיש בהם לתם כגריס תרישא לתוך כותל, עד שיהא בו כגריס ועוד, במקום אחד. It has to be kigris ועוד, במקום אחד. Now what does b'makom echad mean? Does b'makom echad mean mamash together, or does he mean b'makom echad in one place? So this is the diyuk I'm telling you. The sham is already that it's b'makom echad, and the tipin tipin is that it is b'makom echad. So then the b'makom echad is mamash mechubar attached. And on this there's halacha from the Bach, דהני מילי כשנמצא חלוקה, but al bsara, so l'mashal, tipin tipin in two different places. For example, it's all the way lower down on the foot and higher up by the knee. What would you say in such a case? Al bsara? I don't know. Maybe not, because it's not called b'makom echad. Or I'll tell you even further. What happens if it's b'shtei raglayim? Why am I clarifying this? I think that, I don't know, it gets killed and it maybe moves a little down. I don't know, but it's really small amounts of blood. I don't know, maybe two parts of the leg. Are the legs together? What happens? Write it down. You like halacha l'maaseh, so write down the following three questions. Chalukah, the bach, when it's not b'makom echad. You want to close? Close. Chalukah, the bach, when it's not b'makom echad, and what's called not b'makom echad? With not b'makom echad mean, let's say lower and higher on the foot, it means it has to be in the same ever? Does it have to be in the same limb? What happens if it's two different limbs? What happens if it's b'shtei... b'makom echad? Ze b'basar, tipin tipin. What happens if it's taka on two different, not different eivarim which are attached, different eivarim which aren't even attached? Two legs. Maybe we can start clarifying. Maybe she put her legs together. Maybe she put her feet together. Maybe she was davening Shemoneh Esrei. You know, she was davening Shemoneh Esrei, so she was together, her feet were together. Maybe that's not, that's what would also be called makom echad. Why am I asking this? Listen to the way a person's supposed to think. Is b'makom echad a din, or is b'makom echad a sevara? Is b'makom echad a din? If it's not b'makom echad, that's not called a kesher. So what do you want? It's all over. It's not a kesher. Or it has to do sevara. If it's not b'makom echad, it's stam, it's not a machlokes. How could one machlokes be here and there? Is b'makom echad a din, or is b'makom echad a sevara? Kliyah. Hashavcha. Onah yen b'shtei ha-stodos. Habach posel al habasar, yesh omrim — that's the Bach — lo mitztaref. For ker, mitztaref. Tipin tip. Dei rishona — no, it's not for you — dei rishona, ken mitztaref. The machlokes: ba'or chashucha sho'eh, hu sho'eh; or chashucha sho'el tov. Ma sevara l'chalek? What's the sevara l'chalek?

Between basar and chaluk, I tell you like this. Could be, bachaluk it's a din. This is the din of kesef. Habasar, they didn't give the din of kesef, but they gave the din of tliya, which means that in case you taka have a good reason to say it's not, it's not the kinyan. You have to... a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. No, but that's called a window that doesn't give fresh air. It's called closed. Why closed? The metzius of being closed, it tells how much fresh air comes in. What its purpose, right? You want an open window. What's the point? If it's to look outside, ein hachanami, you can look a little bit. But if it's to get fresh air, okay. Now, see, you can't start up with the lamp. You can wiggle his way out of everything. Okay, now listen carefully. Could be the first halacha is that it's a din, it's a din tliya and sevara. So he's saying the sevara is the same both. Mali mali, what would be the chiluk? Sayal basar, it's ein mitztaref, and say on the chaluk it's ein mitztaref. Why? Because since it's not in the same place, since it's not in the same place, so it's probably not from the kinyan. I'm sorry, the other way around. Since it's called mako mechad, since it's called mako mechad, and it's a din, so whatever din kesem they gave, they gave it tziyal bsara vtziyal chaluka. The pshat is that it was never a din of mako mechad. It wasn't the din of mako mechad; it was the svara of mako mechad. So in svara, taka, maybe we could say there is a chiluk or there isn't a chiluk. So then the Bach is coming along and saying maybe there is a chiluk in svara. Maybe bsara is less shchiach. Maybe chaluk is more shchiach, which we spoke about. Or the pshat would be, stam a din, and it's taka bmako mechad. No, the pshat is that the Bach is holding that they didn't give the heter al bsara. Let me say this again, because you know what I really did? I said shtayim shein arba. That's what I said. Okay, so let me repeat. You ready? Ilan, what's the kasha of the Bach? What's the kasha? I mean, I'm sorry, the Aruch HaShulchan, which is a pashut kasha. Usfarasoi tmuah. The manefshach, if you hold that there's a din of kesem al bsara, so then it's like chaluk. Im kein, lama yesh chiluk binyan zeh? Beautiful question. No, it's not a good question. If you hold of it, you hold of it. Im yesh ketem, אז יש ketem. וגם פה וגם שם. Im sovrim sheein bichlal ketem al habasar, בסדר, okay. אבל אתה אוחז בשיטת הרמ״ש יש ketem, רק מה? עכשיו מדברים על טיפין, על ketem חדש. אז כמו שיש בחלוקה, יש על, על פס. זה השאלה. שמה מתי לחקך. בוא נעיין, let's understand. What's the case? Is the case ketem lafukei not ketem, because it's all over the place? Or it's both ketem? But there's a new sugya called b'makom echad, chidashti lecha, שמלשון שחנורך משמע it's all ketem; it's not that it's all over the place. We're gonna get to that later. We're gonna get to that. It's a shaila from R' Akiva Eiger, from the Pischei Teshuva. We're gonna get to it. If the pshat is that it's taka called ketem, and it's taka called b'makom echad, and af al pi kein there's a din of touching and not touching, so what is that? Is that in hilchos tliyah because it's not to be toleh if it's not touching, or it's a din that as long as it's not b'makom echad, then it's not a ketem, even though it's a ketem, even though it's taka one ketem. But Chazal said it has to be b'makom echad.

The shiur has to be b'makom echad. Did you just understand what I said? Naturally. Rafi, help me out here. Say it again. Tell me it has to be all together. Maybe what was said, maybe it wasn't said. I'm sorry. Not all together. You're jumping five steps further. I'm saying something else. What I'm saying is like this: if the pshat in the Shulchan Aruch is simple, attached and not attached, so you could say because when it's attached, it's a ketem. When it's not attached, it's not a ketem. It's all over the place. Tell me, is a stain twenty stains? No, twenty stains is twenty stains. Over here we'll be discussing what's called a ketem. Right. So first of all, do you mean it's all over the place? It's mashma that there is some nirah that it's connected, but it's not b'makom echad. It's not in one place, this kigris v'od. So I'm asking, so what's the reason for that? Is that because in sevara, in tliya, it doesn't make sense it's a kinah, it makes more sense it's not a kinah? Because if you kill a kinah, it'll be attached usually, right? Or it's a din in the shiur. In order to give the ketem, the shiur, whatever the shiur is, tliya, but not because of sevara, because that's the din. So Chazal said it has to be b'makom echad, otherwise here and there, it has to be. You see a ketem b'makom echad, even though the ketem could be not b'makom echad. So then it's a din. Okay, now let's clear. If you learn it's a sevara, and we pasken like the Rambam that shayich a ketem... On the body, shayach a ketam. So then what's the chiluk? There's really no reason to be mechalek, unless the Bach is some kind of sevara that even in hilchos tevilah, it's hard to be toleh that it's still called, right, it's hard to be toleh tipin tipin, which is tahor when it's al besarah. When it's b'makom echad, right, af al pi sheyesh sham tipin harbeh, v'yesh omrim d'hani nimtza chaluka, aval b'nimtza al besarah, then it's mistafer l'kigris v'od, to become tamei. So what's the cheshbon? The cheshbon is that you're saying it's a sevara machlokes. Al besarah, it's less of a sevara, maybe. Al besarah is less. That's how you're gonna have to learn. In other words, if the whole thing is a sevara, so machlokes in sevara, it makes more sense al chaluka that it's not mitztaref, but al besarah we're gonna say that it's not a machlokes. What? Yeah, I'm saying in sevara, it's like sevara, al besarah, it makes more sense it's this over this, so we'll not give you that sevara d'kli. Because in sevara it makes more sense, l'mashal, you have tipin tipin, right? So you could say it's five kinos. You could say that she sat down on five. Al besarah, pshat is it has to crawl through, let's say. I'm just thinking a sevara. So four or five crawled through and made so many stains on her body. That's what I'm saying. It's not stains, like he's flowing. So that's the svara that we spoke about. What happens if it looks like it flowed down? I asked you all this. Again, let me tell you what I'm saying. Ilan peitesh, that's a pashut thing. Six stains al gufo. Are we talking about that who cares and therefore it's always aser? Is that what it is? We don't care and it's mitztaref? Or the pshat is we pasken like the Rambam, that there is a din kesem and that there is something, right? And this is taka what looks like one kesem. But the heter that we had in the first shita, that it's not mitztaref, we're not going to have over here. So if the first shita is about tliya, it's a sevara that the tliya is still shayach even though it's tipin tipin. So maybe al psara it's less shayach, it's less mitztaref. A chayavim lehagid, babach u'bashulchan Aruch, pachot mitztaref. That's what you have to say. Al chaluka, tipin tipin still mitztaref, that it's a kinah. Well, al psara is less, and I can hear why. Al chaluka, maybe she sat down on—

2020 watchwords. Mashein kein al bsorah, the garment has to get through, it has to penetrate the clothing. One, five, makes more sense that it's dam nida, okay? That's if you learn kliah. But if you learn dinim of shiurim, then lechatchila the shiur is that it's a sugya about shiurim, which means it's not about sevara. That's the shiur the chacham gave, so of course a shiur. Here, could you imagine, you have to drink a reviis, so you drink, tipin tipin, and twenty minutes later you drink again. It's not a shiur, that's not the shiur. Right? Like the Chasam Sofer, so it's not the shiur, right? So what's the first shita? The first shita learns that it is the shiur. Tipin tipin will still be—what do we mean it's not the shiur? That it's not mitztaref, right? And therefore it's mutar. Could be al bsorah, they gave a different shiur. They broadened the shiur. You know, the shiurim in between hefsek, achilas pras, they gave a bigger shiur. But ein hachanami, if it's taka two different legs which has no shaychus to another, for example, you drank in the morning a reviis, and at night you drank, nobody holds it's mitztaref. So if it's in one foot and one foot, or one foot in a different ever, then ein hachanami. You hear the sevara? Either we learn the Shulchan Aruch, kliah and sevara, or we learn the Shulchan Aruch here. Shit, does he say this? He says this also? ... He's making some. Okay, no, I'm saying, okay, probably making more lomdus, but now let's go on. So, יש לנו שתי דרכים להבין את השולחן ערוך. או שיכולים להבין שהכול סברות, הכלי פחות, הכלי יותר, על בשר פחות. Or the pshat is, it's a shiur. And tipin tipin doesn't have the shiur of mokom echad, so the din of mokom echad is not by basar. That new shiur, that new shiur of mokom echad lo yehei b'basar. Again, either it's a sevara and tliya. Is it logical kinah, not kinah? So maybe we have to say, on the clothing it's less logical, right? If you sat down on five kinim, so it could be it's five kinim. It's very possible, so it's not מסתבר to the degree. מה שאין כן על בשר, maybe it makes less sense to say that. One, and it penetrated. Okay. או אידך, or maybe we could say that mokom echad is a shiur. Even when you know it's kesem echad, but that's the shiur. In one kesem there's a shiur שיהיה במוקם אחד, like a shiur revi'is. You can't have it in four cups. Could you have a revi'is of yayin in four cups? But I drank a revi'is. Yeah, but it's in four different places. It's not one kos. So it could be that shiur they didn't give, that shiur they didn't give al basar. Okay. Now, what would be a case like this? I think you explained that. How, why they made that shiur is because of the sevara, because of the sevara. About that sevara, so that's what I'm telling you, that sevara. That's the sevara. Even in din, I'm saying, even in din, why they made that din is because of that sevara, right? So that's a sevara. That's what I'm saying. You want to say it's a din, okay. It's when you want to—it's just adding; you're not really doing anything. Okay, good, I hear, but it's based on a sevara. But the second thing is based on shiurim. It's not a gevar, it's based on a shiur. I'm asking, why the shiur here and not here? What's the reason why? Because al psara is always more chamur. Even if we hold there's a kesem, hakel madim is more chamur because of a sevara also. That din of shiur that was given is because—no, because it's a din, maybe there's no kesem al psara. We spoke, there's reasons for it. But why? Rebbe's still not saying why. You don't have to go back into previous seif from that psara is more chamur, and vholach acharai because there's a shita that doesn't even hold it like the Rambam. Even when the Rambam came along and said, yes, we hold of kesem, so it could be the shiur are different when it comes to the tziruf. It's not the end of the world to hear that everybody's modeh al psara is worse, and for whatever reason. Oh, you're right, because the sevara is more, or because it's a din al psara, like the Tosafos that we spoke about, the Gemara, that there's no—

That's an absurd. Whatever it is, it could be different shiurim. Now, I want to tell you an interesting episode that we once had. They brought a beged to Rav Haush, yeah? They brought a beged to Rav Hausch. It looked bad. It looked bad, yeah? And he's looking and he's looking and he's looking. And I was thinking to myself, it's a technical thing. Yes, no, I mean it's red, yeah? He says to me, Wait a minute, I'm thinking of something. What could you be thinking of? Like what? There's a Shach, a time you're looking in Shulchan Aruch. I couldn't, really, because they say expertise in mareh. What is the expertise in mareh? You know the halachos. What other thing could there be an ex- or you have a good eye. Well, maybe you have a good eye, you know what I'm saying? I could hear that, but this is not about a good eye. There was nothing eye here. It's red. He's sitting there and he's coming. I want to show you something. Never forget this. You know there's always two layers in that spot. There's two layers. The material is a double layer. He goes, and don't forget it's white. It's a white, right? Well, it's a white undershirt. He takes it and he separates the two layers. He tells me, Tell me, does it really look so red now? Does it look so deep red like it looked before? I said, No, it's less because... Huh? I can't hear what? He saw it from outsh. This is outsh stuff. This is all outshes, sipurei outsh, yeah? It's good, because the klal of the mareh has to be strong red. It's not strong red anymore. Now tell me something. You know it's one kesem, right? It's the same kesem. It's not one from one side, something else from the other side, right? How can it be? It's the same spot and the same everything. It's the same place. You don't have a safek what it is. It's just, you separate the begadim, so it's on two separate begadim, and therefore it's not as red. This was color. This was color. Let's discuss the same story by kikaris. On one side, it comes out that it's big kikaris. There's a tziruf, while on the other side there's not, which means on the front side, not, let's say. Which means if you separate them? No, no, no. Let's say it came out, it's not metzuraf, but in the back, when it soaked in, it became metzuraf. So on one side, let's say, let's argue and say, I could say that it's... But let's say it this way. Let's say it a simple way. On the side which is closer to the isha, it's not—there's no tziruf. While on the second side, when it's soaked in, it's soaked in together. What's the halacha? If the shaila is teluya, it's borur what it is, right? That's what happened. It's the same kesem, but it's soaked in in such a way that on the other side it's attached. But if you learn that it's adin in what? In shiur, shiyeh b'makom echad, it should be in shiur, shiyeh b'makom echad. Where is the kesem? On both? It's on one? When it's in two different places, what becomes the kesem? What's the difference? As long as you know where it came out from, if you have it complete on one of the sides. Oh yeah? Oh yeah? I didn't know. Why not? What do you say, Rafi? Not so poshut, right? Okay, so then let me ask you a different question. You ready? What would be if there's a little bit on this side and a little bit on the other beged on the other side, and together...

You have a k'gris of blood. They're definitely touching each other, but they're not touching on the beged; they're touching on two different begadim. Do you have a k'gris of blood together? Yes, you do. But on the beged, do you have it in the same place? No, because it's two different begadim. I mean, if you hold this shtick works, it could be it doesn't work. ... Baruch, it's not ממש, but it's like someone who has a problem with ... Okay, but it's ... Okay. It's not ממש, but it's close. Does he talk about this case with both sides? How about this other one? ... something else. Yeah, what about him? Does he talk about it? No. Okay, so I guess I'm on new territory. The question is, is it called a chibur or not? Yeah, if you learn that it's chibur al tzliya, it's mechubar. My friends, it's one kesher. You know where it came from. It came from here and it went to there, and it's one thing. But if it's a din that on the cloth it has to be makom echad for a shiur, what would happen? The guy takes two koises, yeah, and he makes kartrapes. You know what kartrapes is? Like by the mikveh. What's the right word? Kartarfes. Kartrapes, I think. I'm not saying the word right, huh? Whatever, it's very close, yeah? Could you say you have a reviis? It's touching. The things are touching, yeah, but it's two different begadim, it's two different koises. Oh, he said it, he said it. What? What is he saying? That's something else. That's shkiyas ha-blitis. That's a different case. That's pischei teshuvah. That's close. We're gonna get to that. That's why it's negeia, okay? You're walking around. Why are you walking around? It's good stuff. Okay, so make it a little less. It's a sugya shel nikar. That's what I'm trying to tell you. It's not exactly. It's not b'diuk, chumra, it's a fit tov. Okay, it was a karov. You know what I want now? First I want this. I get rid of this. This is not negeia. Okay, now, yeah? You hear what I want? If it's teliyah, so you have the teliyah. What do you mean? You have it. If you learn it's a shiur, shiyehei b'makom echad, v'makom, peirush, makom, ulaish b'shtei begadim, ze lo nechshav makom echad. I could say, ze nechshav beged echad. Don't get me wrong. Could be there's no such... Chiddush. Huh? No, it wouldn't be separate. So then you just every time you have a kesem, you know, erase it, take white out, and then erase it. Huh? How do you separate them? Okay, I understand what it was. How do you separate them? I'll tell you another chiddush. You ready? What happens if taka... No, I don't like this chiddush. Okay, let's move along. Now, I don't hold yet. I'm still in the middle of formulating havanah, havanah, in this Shulchan Aruch, okay? Now, Rafi, do me a very big favor, okay? Maybe do me pasken if we have underwear that's lined blue, white. We're gonna get to that. That's the milsa d'stabra. We're gonna get to it. We'll get to it. Slowly, we'll get it. We're not holding yet. Okay, now. Okay. Oh, that's not the one on the Chumash. That's the one on Chumash, very interesting sefer, huh?

Pat, this guy, who donated it? Okay, calm, you ready? Three chalakim, they put it in a whole, it's a whole thing. Yeah, it's perfect. It's like seven, eight, ten chalakim. Okay, now, here, listen carefully. It's a lot of gera Torah. What it is, is pilpul from the Polish world. It's a very interesting sefer. Okay, now listen carefully. No, I don't have. Here, so listen carefully. Piskei teshuva, se'if katan tezayin. Go ahead, read. Read, Rafi, read. What's beit yad? Do you know what a beit yad is? Sleeve. They used to have this thing that they wore to warm them up, like a... Yeah, the women, they wear it. The winter park, yeah. The women wear it during the week, and the Rebbes wear it on Shabbos. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Makom ha-kmatim. Okay, now, so the first sheeta holds that it's not mitztaref. I'm saying it is mitztaref. And the second sheeta holds only if it's sewn. Only if it's sewn together, then it's mitztaref. I mean, I don't see the metzius is the same, no? I mean, if you hold it's a kinah... That's why it's a kino, right? Yeah, I said it's always maybe four kinim, but it's together. Again, so when you see it in front of you, you see it joined together. So what's the sugya? What do you want exactly? Who cares? Who cares? So what does tefurim have to do with anything? Oh, because tefurim means it can't move around. Wow, that's wild stuff. That's very wild. That's wild. That's the pshat, tefurim can't move around. Read me how he learns it. I didn't learn that one. No, no, no. Okay, get to this case. Read the books. Let him read it, but read the right case. Go ahead, yeah. Bet yad, go ahead, yeah. ... im ... או ... וכתב דאם אינו תפור, פסול דאינו מצטרפין. ... אפילו בתפור צריכין. ... יש אוויר ביניהם. It's not tight. You see, see, it's one thing. So what are you, again, what are you—what are they arguing about? I don't understand. It's niker that it's one. If the story is that it's niker that it's one, then there's nothing more to—And if it's not niker it's one, so what are you arguing about? I don't understand what—you're making that it's a svaradike thing. It's not new svaras, because it's not. You know that it's one. Otherwise you wouldn't be mistapek. All these things, we know that it's not a kinyan. I don't see pieces of kinyan here, and I'm still—obviously this game called svara, it's not a real svara. Still, we're trying to get alibai. Okay, you want to say it that way. Can I say it my way? I think my way is better. I think my way makes more sense. אם זה דין של במקום אחד, השאלה היא, הרי הבית יד זה בגד אחד, אבל חסר במקום אחד. והשאלה היא אם תפור, אם זה נחשב למקום אחד, ועכשיו שאלה אם זה לא תפור מהודק, יש קצת אוויר ביניהם, still it's called מקום אחד. So you're saying, yeah, kinyan, not kinyan. Well, I don't think it has anything to do with that. I don't believe it has anything to do with that. I think it's—the svara is it's ked me'echad. The question is here, like you have the—

They call that the, the, the accordion. Now you see it, now you don't. So what's the shaylah? Is that called makom echad? It's sfeikas in din makom echad. How does he bring it down? Read it. No, how does he bring it down? The way he said it, the way I said it. He's not masbir it at all? Nothing? Okay. Yeah, compared to negaim, exactly. Chibur. Thank you so much. He says compared to negaim? Okay, good. That's it. That's my raya, okay? Okay, you know that that's the raya to me, right? Okay, that's finished. Im ze shayach l'negaim az ma ze? It's a sevara shel chibur. That's the sipuk. Finished. It's not a sevara in the kli and the kina. He says even without negaim, forget about this, as long as it looks like it's... That's the shaylah. Either you look at it as a kliah, so who cares? Or you look at it as a din, so now you have to know chibur of din. Gevaldik, zachinu, zachinu. Who said negaim? He himself said negaim. I'm saying the Piskei Teshuvos says negaim. Ah, so I was zoche. Atah shomea? Zachiti. Zachiti. It's not a din like Rafi, it's a din in negaim, it's a din chibur. Exactly, it's a din, yeah. Pashut. See, Rafi's saying it's sevaros of kliah. It has nothing to do with sevaros of kliah. You see it's one, but af al pi kein yesh diyunim. Ha'im ha'makom echad zeh mitzad ha'tziur, o ha'makom echad mitzad ha'beged echad? What makes makom echad? So that's the shaylah if it's tafur, not tafur. That's where the shaylah comes from. Yafeh? Negaim. Tzachinu. Because of that, he says it's a sevara ברורה, clear sevara. Because it's, you see, it's one kesem. What do you want? You see it's one kesem. In hilchos tliyah, you see it's all one kesem, so what do you want? But if it's a din, so the dinim don't come lemaaseh because you're missing the din of makom echad. Yafeh meod, yafeh meod. You understood? Beautiful. The ra'ayah — who said again the Chochmas Adam? Ra'ayah from the negaim. Huh? Who explains it? Aruch HaShulchan. It makes sense, negaim, it's a din. Okay, now. So if it's tafur, you have to look like it's not niftach? No, that's the shaylah. Tafur means that it's attached. Shaylah is if tefirah makes it attached. Even if the tefirah isn't mamash attached, the point is not attached. Okay. Now. אז דיברנו, או שזה סברתא, הסברה שזה... זה לא יכול להיות דין. יכול להיות שזה סברה, אבל זה מאוד פלים, זה סברה. אבל אם אומרים שזה דין, אז זה הדין, ככה קבוע, חלוק ככה ועל בשרה, משהו אחר, יותר חמור. עכשיו בוא נראה, because of the sevara of Shalom v'reius, אני אראה לך, או חשולחן באמת, למאן כמו ר'... You ready? How do we say, for the sake of unity, of peace and unity? Okay, now I don't want him to read it, because then he's going to be... Mishrachet, לקרוא, אני מבין, לא כזה חסר. גשרון, גשר, read it, read it clearly. יש מי שמסתפק. Here, this is the difference between chochmas adam, Negaim, or the second mahalach. Baruch Hashem, Baruch Hashem, nu? יש מי שמסתפק בכתב שנמצא על המקום אקטמים. Okay, it's not kmatim, kmatim, kmatim.

So I was telling you that it's a shaila in makom echad, in the din of makom echad. And they showed me, the Chochmas Adam says like, like, like negaim, says Darach HaShulchan. Oh, that's the shaila. Oh, vadai mitztaref. Vadai mitztaref. Why? Moshim Sinai. You think it's a halacha l'Moshe miSinai? What is it? Taima d'rabba. D'meina dafka mefuradim. Sounds like what I'm saying, that there is a din that you need mefuradim, yeah? What? Taima d'rabba, the sevara. Mah sevara? He's saying exactly what you're saying. It's a sevara, so the sevara makes sense. Okay, so now let him read it. Let him read it. Mamash like what he said. Sevara. I'm telling you it's din, and he's saying it's sevara. Okay. ... ro'im shezeh mimachlokes, u'mah atah רוצה. ... lo, זה תלוי בסברה, לא תלוי ב... ... תלוי בדין, בדין, אם זה מקום אחד או לא. Nirash is a ketem echad. Aval, az ani to'en, yeah, but first he's giving you the sevara that you're saying. He's gonna say it's tamei, but for your sevara, you're saying the other way, that to be meikel, but it's a sevara. He's saying it's tamei in tliya. Whatever the tliya tells me, that's what it is. And I'm telling you, forget about the tliya. It's a shaila in makom echad, negaim. Okay. Let me ask you a question like this. What happens, what happens if the beged itself has holes? It's a beged menutz, it's one of those—it's like a net. Chulin? Chulin. The hole is not tamei or no? The hole is not tamei, it's empty. But you see that it's one ketem. Just b'metzius there's no beged there to be takein. He has a case like this? Someone has a case like this? Sefarim should know how to learn. Where? Where? So where—how can he brings a makor for this? Who, his teimani? Oi las Yitzchok, really he's Teimani? Teimani? Huh? How did—mai ta'amu chai, hu chai. Rav Tzvi? Rav Tzvi? Chai? Ma hu? Oseh falafelim? Ma hu oseh? No. ... למה לא ...? No, not me. He went against גדולים אחרים של תימנים. Oh, אז... פעם, let's go. אז בוא, אז הוא יש לו ראש טוב. הוא מסתפק כמו שאני מסתפק. אז זה, הוא מתפלפל כזה. This is havanah in the halacha. I had this shaila: what happens if it's a neted beged? If you learn that it's teliyah and it's a sevara, so you see that it's one ket. But if you learn it's a din, could be you don't have it b'makom echad; you just don't have it. Does he say it that way? Does he write it that way? He just brings the question. But there's no holes. There's no blood. There's no blood, of course. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So if it's a sevara, teliyah, you know that it's one ket. That's what I'm telling you.

He's not talking about the chibur, he's talking about the shiur. Okay, read it again, read it again. Then maybe it's not shebiglam. He's going with the milsa d'stabra. Okay, he's right, Rabbi. He's going with the milsa d'stabra of a beged tzavua. He's right, he's right. Okay, this is not the same case. Okay, so get him off the table. I know, but I'm talking about a different nekudah in the case. I want to know if it's kol makom echad. And the shiur girs... what? No, on one side is like this: either you come and you see it's one ketam, so it's mechabah. No, it's not. No. If you're standing on someone's foot, are you standing in a thousand places? But it's not the same place, deepin, deepin. Again, again, if you're standing on a beged, an underwear, and it's shayach tipin tipin, so you're going to tell me you're standing in ten different places? It's not about standing in ten different places. Everything is joined, right? The entire net is red. If I'm standing like this, and this is a net under me, I'm standing on a thousand different strands? Okay, I'm asking, if you're standing on an underwear, you're standing in ten different places? But, uh, it's teepin, teepin. So again, the blood is not joined because there's holes in the middle. No, there are holes in the middle. I'm telling you. I'm telling you a story. You're saying you're looking at it like a net. I'm talking about the tzitzis. The net, right? The hole is surrounded on all four sides. The whole thing is red on all four sides. Okay. There are little holes. I know what you're talking about. Let's say the tzitzis. No, let's say the net is little red on the sides. Not on the sides. If you have these tzitzis, whatever they call them, I don't know, the synthetic tzitzis. Okay. Right. So could be this is not mitztaref with this, and this is not mitztaref with this, and this is not mitztaref with this. There's holes in between. Even though they're l'maaseh mitztaref. But they are all joined. They are joined together. Again, I'm telling you, in metzius they're not joined together, because there's holes there. No, but there's still a connecting piece there. There's a string. It has to be connected. I'm telling you a chiddush. I'm telling you a very big chiddush. The hechrech is that if you learn that they have to be connected, this is not called connected. This is not called connected. If you learn that they have to be connected, this is not called connected. Who says it's connected? But if you think that it's a kli, that it has to be one, one, it is one. You know it's one. You know where it came from. I'm telling you a tremendous chiddush. I hold it's a gevaldige chiddush. You don't like the chiddush, so don't pasken it. I don't care. What do I care what you... ...ani... ...ani lo chayav. ...כן. Okay, בוא נמשיך. You know what I'm talking about? ... You know what I'm talking about. You don't agree with me, huh? Okay. So one day you will. Let's go weiter. Now, what are you talking about? If I put five holes over here, one, two, three, four, five, and all around it, why does it have to be all around? Even if it's not all around. But we're talking that it is. There was a big drop, this whole book is red, and there's one hole. That means what? Now this area is separate from this. It's connected all around. And if it's not connected all around? Then it's not a beged anymore. It's not a beged. If it's not connected, the stains are not connected, then it's two different stains. We're not talking about that. Around the circle. No, something... I feel like...

He's a man, but he didn't have to fight all the way. No. The truth is, because my voice is not 100%. That's the truth. Because I would start screaming now ... because I'd be scared. I don't have my voice anymore. I don't know what to do. It doesn't get better. Okay, now. What happens if it's סמוכין in a way that it's ניכר that it's from ...? It's a lawn. It's a strip. It brings the case, this famous case. They all talk about it in halacha. So what does he say in such a case? Because what does it say? טיפין הרבה, סמוכין זה לזה. But it's סמוכין באופן שנראה שזה מהאישה. Let's say it's on a beged. Let's say it's on a beged. So what does he pasken? Yeah, what does Chacham—what's his name over there? Abuhav. What's his name? Moshe? Chacham Moshe. What does Chacham Moshe ... say? Don't give it to me, I'm tired. Come, nu, help me, my throat. כשר לי לדבר, תעזור אותי. כוח נפש. ... So what does he say? That's mechabrim. That's something else. I want to know if it's טיפין טיפין. In a way that it looks that it comes from the guf ha'isha. He doesn't bring this case. Veim shezeh ha'isha. So what happened? Okay, I'll ask you another question. You ready? Let's say you have, and I was thinking about this, let's say you have, and I know they don't bring this, but I think it's modern-day she'eilah. Today they have pads that stick to the woman. There's no chance in the world that a macholes got stuck in there. The only way we could be toleh b'macholes is that maybe it was there before. Let's say she saw that it's clean, she put it on, it's clean. What happens then? They have today the pad that sticks to the woman.

Inside the pid, a dam, gris, a pachos mikigris. No, no, pachos mikigris. Huh? Assuming that it is. Assuming that, okay, it's not. Who told you that it's not? It's thick. Okay, you have to learn the halachos a little. It's not so pashut, because it's not a question chad pami; it's a thicker one, it's a thinner one, and even if it's true, huh? You go to ask, you tell him a bunch of kulos. No, I'm saying, even if you're going to say that it's only with a tziruf with other things, they're just coming and saying there's dam there, it's not mekabel tumah because ha-dam she'eino mekabel tumah. No, he means that the Rabbanan, that you can start bringing tliyos. Right, tliyos, you say that, but otherwise you don't say it. I'm telling you, it's stuck to your body. No, nursing, she's this, she's that. I'm telling you, they usually do, they tell you like this: you're nursing, you have a makkah, you have a this, I don't know, they come up with stories, and then they say, and meileh also there's a machshavah if it's a davar ha-mekabel tumah, so that's how they say it. Nobody's going to tell you on a regular pid, don't worry about davar she'eino mekabel tumah. What does that mean? It's not a davar she'eino mekabel tumah; it's not so pashut. I mean, so pashut, davar mekabel tumah, chazanish, I mean, gedolei olam, they had a question about it. If it's a davar she'mekabel tumah—if it was not mekabel tumah, Rabbi, right?—then we would still need these tliyos, or we could just say, listen... So that's what I'm saying. Let's say it's a davar she'eino mekabel tumah. I'm sorry, it's a davar ha-mekabel tumah. I'm sorry, it's a davar ha-mekabel tumah. Let's say it's a davar ha-mekabel tumah and you need a tliyah of... of macholis, okay? Macholis. But there is no פלוג, because it's stuck to the body, so you're talking ridiculous. There's nothing here to talk about. Which to me is the same case where, let's say you see the situation, it looks like it came from the isha. When you have a ketem, which you see comes from the isha, do you still have the halacha of ketem? So I'm telling you again, it's all תלוי in this shaila. If you learn that has to do with תליה, there's no תליה here. I mean, you see that it's not that way. But if you learn it has to do with din, so that's the din, and that's all. That's what it is. Now that's what I'm just telling you on the word סמוכין. If it's טיפין הרבה סמוכין זה לזה, עד שנצרפין, יש בהם יויתר מכגריס טהורה. So what happens if the סמוכין doesn't tell me macholis, but the סמוכין tells me גופה אישה? What happens? That's the question. What is סמוכין? Is סמוכין a din or is סמוכין a svara? What would you say, is סמוכין a din or סמוכין a svara? I could hear both ways. I could say סמוכין is a din just to make up the makom echad, or I could say סמוכין is about a תליה. And if it's סמוכין זה לזה, so then maybe it's not a קינה. Teretz is, we're not, af al pi כן, we don't say that it's maybe not a קינה. But what happens if the סמוכין tells me it's from the גופה אישה? What happens then? If the סמוכין tells me that it's not a קינה, we're not choshesh for that. So even if it's סמוכין, zeh l'zeh, we're not going to use it to say it's not a, right? The סמוכין is not going to be a raya. Let it be a raya from the gufei, maybe yeah, maybe not, I don't know. It's a very nice shaila. If you learn that the סמוכין is just a nidon of din of makom echad, so that's the shaila. The סמוכין make makom echad. But if you learn סמוכין is part of the sevara, so what happens if the סמוכין is in the sevara that it comes from the isha? What would you do in such a case? It's a very nice shaila. Again, what's the ma'aleh of סמוכין that there was a hava amina to say, af al pi sheסמוכין? So it's together. Meaning what? So it's not a machloikes. So does the situation of what it looks like could teach me something? Could the situation of where, the way it's situated, teach me something? I'm telling you, it depends on how you learn it. If you learn that it's a sevara, so yes, it teaches me that it's not a machloikes. But if it's for the din of makom echad, Hillel Eliezer, are you with me? If it's for the din of makom echad, so it's not teaching me anything. It's a shaila if it's סמוכין, could we call that good enough?

The shailah would be the other way. If the slucha teaches me that's from the guf ha'isha, what happens? It's done in a way that it's put together and it looks like it's from the guf ha'isha. Okay. There's a whole shailah. What happens if you have ksamim and you have something else that's mekasher, like a lechem levanah, okay, a white thing, so you see that it's taken together, so you can't come and say macholos. So what happens in such a case? So the Tzemach Tzedek, which everybody quotes, everybody quotes the Tzemach Tzedek, it can be meikel. I saw, I went to look, he says—what? No, he says he could be. Noitel l'hakel. Noitel l'hakel. That's the Taras Habayis. Go ahead, look at the Taras Habayis. Rav Ovadia says if you— You should be machmir, but if you're meikel, you could be meikel like the Tzemach Tzedek. Read it, read it, Nu. He's machmir, I know, because everybody doesn't want to pasken like the Tzemach Tzedek. He brings the Tzemach Tzedek and he says, Don't pasken like the Tzemach Tzedek. Good. Rav Ovadia says, All right, nishkefelch, you could pasken like the Tzemach Tzedek. Go ahead. Does it say the Maharam? No, he has these ... So it's a very interesting shailah. You have a ketem, you have a yesh lavan shemechaber, sheharei mechubar. Aval shelo mechubar b'ma'aris tamei, so what's the halacha? Oh, so he has it. Okay, so go look it up. So, Bnei Brak... ...shatz tzaddik, shatz tzaddik, mishkafelach, yeah? Okay. B'machlokes. B'machlokes. Pashut. Harei nira sheze echad, aval sof sof ze lo echad. That's the shaylah. When it's nira echad and the kli is gone, is there still a din of lemaaseh ze echad? What do you do then? The shiur. You don't have it. That's it. That's the shiur that they were kovea. That's the need. Now let's do the miltztaka. Kiveiga, Haga'os, se'if katan yud. No, what does he bring down? We're gonna get to it. Nu, go ahead. Haga'os, Kiveiga. Nu? Go ahead, nu. He doesn't bring—one second—he doesn't bring the miltztaka. Se'if katan yud, Haga'os Rav Kiveiga. He brings Rav Kiveiga, nu. No, miltztaka. Okay, what's the psak of the miltztaka? Nu? Okay, what's the psak of the miltztaka? Mareh tahor, which means is you have two reds and a mar'tor in the middle, not a leicha which attaches it. So again, you know what? Obviously he knows one ketem, otherwise there's no miltsa d'stira; it's just stam a stam. And af al pi kein, that's the safek. So he says it's mitztaref. Why? Because in tliyah, the tliyah is gone. Sidrei taharah, another acharonim pasken no. We got the pasken l'hakel; most poskim pasken l'hakel. Why? Because that's the shitah the Chacham gave. It's not makom echad. It has to be b'makom echad. The makom echad is not for the tliyah. The makom echad is for the shiur. It's a pshat. Im zeh bishvil ha-tliyah, po'el tliyah. You see it's one. Mashen kein if it's for the makom echad, so it's not b'makom echad. What are you going to say? L'maaseh it's in two different places. Okay. What happens if you have old and new? Old and new. Old and new. So the sidrei taharah says what it is: two different bloods, old, new, what do you want? Chavaz daas paskens tamei. Chavaz daas, seif katan tes. What's the chiluk? Right, that's the chiluk. Sidrei taharah learns it has to be a sugya of tliyah. So the old and the new, the sevara is it's not the same thing, so what's there to talk about? Mashen kein the Chavaz Daas learned it's a din in makom and shiurim.

I might see, have the shiur. What's the difference? I care what in sevara you see over here. Very strange, but you can look it up. I didn't make it. If I made it up, you can look at me with one eye like this and one eye like that. But if the Chavos Daas says, he says. Go ahead, read it, read it, read it. Sif katan tes. Let's go. Huh? On what? No, so we learned this, no? That's where we started the shiur with this. We said this. That's what we said. Yeah, nu. Sif katan tes. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, royin, we see it's hakol ketan echad. Yeah. Chavos Daas. Oh, vaiter with the same sevara. Go ahead, yeah. Continue. Go ahead, continue. That's it? What about the next one? And the one before? Okay, I'll find it for you. There's a machlokes, Shitah... Chavos Daas. Okay, this is the machlokes, okay? You have it? Tliya o shir, tliya o shir, okay? So sif ches is tliya o shir. We'll makele on all these cases, except for maybe the case of the...