Hilchos Kesamim: Stains on Non-Tamei Surfaces, Kinuach, and Begadim Tzvuim

Transcript

Davar she'eino mekabel tumah, lo gazru. Kesem shenimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So there's a few things over here that I want to be medayek. Reishis kol, shenimtza, shenimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. What happens if it's a kinuach? So it's not a bedikah, but it's a kinuach. Would you call that nimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah? Does it have to be that it's found? But if it was purposely made, maybe it's a different halacha. We'll soon see. Could be, yachol lihyot. Nimtza, dafka nimtza. If it was purposely made, it would be a different halacha. Could be, could be. Al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, on a thing which is not mekabel tumah. Now, l'choira the more classic case is on the begadim, right? What's the case of davar she'eino mekabel tumah? Pads is not. You can't expect the Shulchan Aruch to talk about pads. Al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So l'choira there's really one case. It's karka, right? Whatever, you talk about strange cases, right? But the regular case is karka, right? So it's mashma that it's not just a halacha of karka, but it's al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, which means is that it's not unique to a specific case. I mean, Chazal should have said there's a case: keitzad, batka karka olam, right? Oi beis hakisei she'eino mekabel tumah. So you see the Rambam's case is what? The Rambam's case is beis hakisei. There's not too many other cases than that. So why did they come and they make a klal on a davar she'eino mekabel tumah? I mean, they should have said the halacha of karka. Say the halacha of beis hakisei. I mean, begadim are all mekabel tumah, unless there are cases of certain begadim which are not. So then it's not karka, then it's begadim also. No, what I mean to say is like this: the fact that you're bringing me something about a yosheves, and you don't talk about here, here, oi kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah, veyashva alav u'matza boi kesem. What about begadim? I mean, you see that we went out of our way to stress sitting on something. And the answer is, the sitting on something is the more classic case, l'choira. And yet the takanah was al kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah. It's a pashut shailah. You know, you tell me, kesem shenimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So what do you need? Keitzad? Batka karka olam, beis hakisei? Just say, on davar she'eino mekabel... Unless you're teaching me that these things are not mekabel tumah, is that the chiddush here? Is this a chiddush in a case, or this is a chiddush in an example of eino mekabel tumah? It's a case, which means that that's the case of the lo gazru. You know, and the truth is we're going to learn this a little bit later on. Now that there's halachah of eino mekabel tumah, it turns into a whole machlokes in Hilchos, and we have to turn to the Rambam in Hilchos Tumah v'Taharah. What's called a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, v'legabei begadim. So which case, begadim she'eino mekabel tumah? That's the list you look up in Navi... the list. I'm not ready for a list. It's a list. Maybe the reason he did not mention beged. Because it's more complicated. No, because everything is mekabel tumah. That's what I'm telling you. I'm trying to show you something. So what do you need? What's your keitzad? Keitzad? There's no keitzad, I don't understand. Whatever's mekabel tumah is mekabel tumah. Give one example. Also because within begadim, there's colors. If it's white... He goes into the colors. V'chein keses shenimtza beged tzavua. He gives the details of beged that, you know what, so we'll give you a pashut case.

No, I'm saying a very simple thing. Is there a unique case, and then there's cases which are included? If it's a regular halacha of davar she'eino mekabel tumah, then I don't really need a case. Keitzad bad karka olam. What do you need? I know what you want. I mean, I understand, anything that's not mekabel tumah, then you go look up the halachas, unless you bring me a case of something which is yesh mekabel, not mekabel tumah. It's a very—when you read it, it doesn't read, it doesn't flow properly. If you mean to tell me dinim of mekabel tumah, it's not here. Here we're saying a very pashut thing here: kesem shenimtza. The first diyuk is clear: nimtza. Nimtza. Okay, we're going to soon discuss that kinuach maybe is not the same halacha, and maybe that's why the Shulchan Aruch stresses nimtza. Okay, al davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So that's a fact. It says davar she'eino mekabel tumah. And then he says, keitzad bad karka olam. The case of karka olam is not really negea to anything, more than an example of tumah taharah. So then just, I don't know, what do you give me this example for, unless this is the case? And then there's other cases which are also included. Another shaylah. And he says, kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah veyashva alav. Again, so why does it have to be yashva alav? It's only yashva alav? I don't understand that. And if it's clothing which is not— Mekabel tumah, it's the same thing. Why are you going out of your way to talk about yeshiva? And the Rambam goes out of his way to talk about a beis hakisei, and then even the ohel. What's the ohel? Ohel, a case that she was yashva alav. Doesn't bother you? I don't know, so tell me what clothing. I don't know what you want. What is the yashva? Keitzad, badka karka olam, o kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So it makes sense that that's what it is. It's karka, and any... and yashva. Yashva is the only case. What he wants. And then, if you notice, he says, lo gazru. And when it comes to v'chein kesef shenimtza al beged tzavua, tahor. Now, l'choira it's two different cases. Why is it in the same v'chein, k'ilu it's the same halacha? And by the case of davar she'eino mekabel tumah, use the lashon of lo gazru, and here he says tahor. See the difference? He should have said, kesef shenimtza al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, lo gazru. And also, v'chein al beged tzavua, lo gazru. Why does he switch from gazru to tahor? Rabosai, I think if you understand the sugya of davar she'eino mekabel tumah, everything is meyushav. The Mechaber was a tremendous writer. You know, it's interesting that he got the lashon of mechaber. I was thinking to myself, why is it like— no, it's an interesting thing. Huh? I understand, but do we call him the Mechaber? I understand, but why would we call him the mechaber? What, the name. Got a name in Klal Yisroel, the mechaber. He was a writer. He knew how to write. Those— I don't mean poetically. I mean to say was, he was an author of a Shulchan Aruch. There's a diyuk in the lashon, the way it's written. It's mesudar. It's very interesting. Mechaber, the author. It's meduyak, everything that he says. Now let's discuss. Okay, so you all understand what I want? Everybody look again inside. Kesem shenimtza. Nimtza, mashma found, right? Nimtza. Al davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and then he says, lo gazru. When it came to beged tzvua, doesn't say lo gazru; it says tahor. Keitzad? Batka karka olam. So don't give me keitzad. Keitzad anything, any time that she found it on beged, on a beged she'eino mekabel tumah. Why is it yashvu? Yashvu, and the Ramo brings a case of beis hakisei, and he continues, yashvu on—

Anything that's eino mekabel tumah, matza b'kesef. And also, why does he put together davar she'eino mekabel tumah with beged tzavua? Okay, so rabosai, let's discuss a davar she'eino mekabel tumah. So rabosai, take a look at the Pischei Teshuva, se'if katan yud-zayin. Ayin b'sidrei taharah. Go ahead, Raffi, read it. Ayin b'sidrei taharah. Mikom makom, this is the chiddush now in the Seder Taharah. Oh, ayin sham. Okay? Which means is, it's not only the davar on the imtza, but if it's on something which is a davar hamekabel tumah, kivan d'nitma mishum masa... carrying, that since the davar hamekabel tumah is carrying a tumah, right? So therefore it becomes tamei. So you put pad on the underwear, so the underwear carrying the pad, right? So on the pad she saw blood. Davar hamekabel tumah, right? So this is the pad. Case of pad. No, don't hack to the pad. I'll give you an example to understand. No, but it's not the case. One second. Davar she'eino mekabel tumah, it's on this which is mekabel. Right? It has blood on it. It stands like the blood is being carried by this, and therefore it becomes tamei, right? Yeah, who said it's not straight? That's why I'm telling you, it's very, very strange. A woman carrying this. She was sitting on his chair. You have the blood here. This is the mass. This is carrying the blood. This is the mass. This is the mass of the blood. See, let me tell you the pshat. Leave peads alone, because peads, we don't even know what it is. It's mekabel tumah, it's not mekabel tumah. Leave it alone. This is a different story. A regular thing which is a mekabel tumah, masa. If it's a masa, right, so it becomes the masa of the tumas nida, the nida kesem, and therefore it goes and brings back the tumah to the woman. Okay, that's called a davar hamekabel tumah which is carrying a davar she'eino mekabel tumah and the tumah. Tumas masa. Unbelievable chiddush. Again, ayin b'Seder Taharos סוף, סעיף קטן צדיק גימל, שכתב דיצא לו דין חדש. He comes up with a new yatza loi. He invented, he invented a new din. Now he says, yatza loi, it's a new din, yeah? Now what? דהא דקיימא לן בנדה קסם, הדבר שאינו מקבל טומאה לא גזרו, הוא טהורה. מכל מקום, עושה דבר שנמצא עליו מונח גבי דבר המקבל טומאה, כיוון דנטמא משום משא, לכך גם האישה טמאה. יעקב שרוצה להחמיר בנמצא על בנין מחובר, כיוון שהוא מקבל טומאת נגעים, שזה תוספות, ר' יהודה. Okay. So what's taka pshat in this halacha? What's the pshat in this halacha? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, what's taka pshat in this halacha? Ready? The Seder Torah, if you look at it, he actually is coming from a Rishon, the Ran. These are actually the words of the Ran. And he brings another case. The case is an interesting thing. The isha's yad, is the isha's yad mekabel tumah? The isha's hand.

Mekabel tumah, of course mekabel tumah, right? The cloth, if she's holding one, let's say it's davar she'eino mekabel tumah, right? Let's say it's not a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and she, when she made a kinuach. Since it's being carried by a davar ha-mekabel tumah, says the Seder Taharos, it would come out that it's tamei. So therefore he says this yesod, that kinuach, kinuach, this is the Seder Taharos. Go ahead, read it inside. Read the Seder Taharos, the Ran, tzad gimmel. Okay, and read also the part with the beis yad. Ah, come on, fine, fine. I know, two pages, fine. Does he bring the case of making kinuach? Does he talk about a kinuach? Does he bring that part of the Seder Taharos? You hear, rabosai, there's two nekudos here. First is a yesod, that if it's on a davar hamekabel tumah, the thing which is now mekabel tumah, it doesn't help. This is a ran. The yesod of it is a ran. Mimeila, there comes out a gevaldige chiddush, that in case she's holding a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and she makes a kinyuach, lemaaseh her hand is a davar hamekabel tumah, so therefore it becomes tamei, because the davar hamekabel tumah of her hand is going to make it that even though the thing itself is davar she'eino mekabel tumah, still she has to what? She has to metameh it. Acharonim say it's not true. Where did you get this yesod from? Lemaaseh, where is it? It's on the davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and if it's on the davar she'eino mekabel tumah, who cares if underneath it it's a davar she'mekabel tumah? So they would doche the... If you take a look, all the poskim come and say, It can't be, can't be. Okay, so I want to explain what's the pshat in this halacha. Why should it be that way? So who knows, bichlal, why lo gazru on a davar she'eino mekabel tumah? Why is it that way? Why should it be that way? Ma cheshbon? So this is a machlokes rishonim. Tosafos, here in Niddah daf nun ches, a kesem yoser kigris, should it be tamei? Why should it be tamei if it's yoser kigris? But it's a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, so the shailah is, why not? So what's the reason for that? So take a look at Tosafos, daf nun ches. And he said, I think it's aleph, lo ratzu, lo ratzu, they didn't want to be gozer. You have it? No, you don't have it. The taamim, taamim. No, nun ches. Oh, you have samech aleph over there? It's nun ches. Okay, see, I'm tired today. I can't concentrate. It's nun ches, right? You don't have it? Nun ches amud aleph, I told you. I remember clearly, amud aleph. Here it is. Taima d'Ramdachamya, keivan d'davar shehakesem bo tahor, gam al ish lo gazru tumah. V'hai, she'srisah d'mesamech d'lo mekabel tumah, gam mekabel tumah l'goy. So this is Ramdachamya's halacha. Kol davar...

Eino mekabel tumah, eino mekabel ... So the lashon of the Gemara is mashma a p'sak interesting velt, yeah? That's not mekabel. Just like it's not mekabel tumah, so it's not mekabel ... which is tumah. That's not what Tosafos says. Tosafos says, d'keivan shehakesef vaytahar, gam al ha'isha lo ... So it's not so much the beged; it's that p'sak goes the other way, because since this is tamei, this is tahor. Why? You have ... it's like divrei nevius over here. No, ata chacham, tagid li pshat. Kol davar she'eino mekabel tumah, eino mekabel ... It doesn't take ... So a good ... it has to do with the beged, right? Something has kabbalah, something mekabel ... Tosafos comes and says, No, I don't learn pshat like that. V'meileh, since this is not mekabel ..., v'meileh therefore lo gazru al ha'isha. Yeah, but why? Why not? Why not? The Ran says a different sevara. The Ran says that the cheshbon is like this: if it's mekabel tumah, and on the isha would be tahorah, right? And on the isha would be tahorah, so then people are going to say, just like the isha is tahorah, so too ... This is tahor. So therefore, in order for it to match, it's not mekabel tumah, the isha is not mekabel. It is mekabel tumah, and the isha is mekabel. Otherwise, you're going to have people making ta'ut. He brings the ran, he brings the ran. Read the ran. No. Read the ran. Read it faster. You read the ran. V'Ran b'chidushav, yeah. There's nothing what the Toras should have been mutar. There's nothing to talk about. Since the beged is tamei, you have to be tamei the isha, because people are going to... shelo yavo'u letaher es habeged. Good. Maybe is that what Tosafos means? I don't know. It doesn't say, but pashut, Tosafos is one pshat, the Ran is another pshat, so what's the pshat in Tosafos? How do you understand pshat in Tosafos that because the beged, so too the isha? Okay, rabosai, let me tell you what I think the pshat is. There's a noyta b'Yehuda. What? The Ran says a thing. It has to do with... How people are going to view it. If it goes on a beged which is mekabel tumah, so what are they going to say? The isha's tahor and the beged's tamei, they'll say the whole beged is tahor. People are going to start saying, take a look, this beged, the isha was tahor, and מסתמא the beged is tahor. It doesn't mean that it's tahor; it's not true. So therefore, אם הבגד טמא, אז האישה טמאה. אם הבגד טהורה, אז האישה טהורה. So on a davar שאינו מקבל טומאה, לא גזרו. They weren't gozer. Now, let's take a look at the lashon of gazru. According to the Ran, according to the Ran, that בעצם it should have been tahor. It starts the other way; it should have been tahor. נרוואס, they were gozer on a beged because of tumah tahorah, so ממילא לא גזרו on a beged שאינו מקבל טומאה. Since the whole issur begins with a gezeirah anyway, so therefore they came and said, לא גזרו. I understand where the gazer—notice even Tosafos uses the lashon of gazer epes. On a davar שאינו מקבל טומאה, that's the gezeirah epes. Notice Tosafos says the lashon gazer. People, people, the mechaber, they all use which lashon? Gazru, gazru. Where does gazru come in? Ah, the Ran is gevaldik, because the Gemara says nothing to do with nidah.

He has to do gezeirah. Rav shemekabel, like goshu. Tosafos also uses that, so what's shat Tosafos? Now there's a very interesting Noda BiYehuda. The Noda BiYehuda says, because it's a sfek-sfeika. You hear? It's a sfek-sfeika, which means like this: lemaaseh, it's a safek if it comes from her or not. That's one safek. Then there's another safek. Maybe—let me see what the sfek-sfeika would be. Let's work it out. Maybe it's tar. I'm saying, there's hargasha, there is hargasha, there's no hargasha. And even if we don't know where the blood, maybe it's macholos, maybe it's me'alma. And he makes it the sfek-sfeika. He brings the Noda BiYehuda, read the Noda BiYehuda. Not Chavas Daas cholek. What is about the Noda BiYehuda? Chavas Daas brings the Noda BiYehuda, okay, yeah, yeah. Every kesem is without hargasha, have a safek, which is what I told you, the first safek, yeah. Oh, so that's with dilma d'alma, and sfek-sfeika. Okay, I'm sorry, so I thought it was two sfeikos. Sfek-sfeika d'alma l'kula. Lemaaseh, since it's also she'eilah of tumah, continue. I'm mekabel tumah, maga, adam, right? Mekor mekomo tamei. So therefore, because you don't need hargasha for that. Again, you don't need hargasha, though. The isha needs, besides the tumah, needs hargasha also. Safek d'rabbanan l'kula. Mah she'ein kein l'gabei tumah, you don't need the hargasha. So what are you left with? A safek of tumah. Huh? I know, he makes it into a sfek-sfeika. That's how I remembered it. Go ahead, yeah. Okay, so he continues: ... v'rak she'eino tumah gmurah. Okay, aval ha'isha temei'ah ... Okay. She touched the ketem. Okay. Oh, so he says, ela d'l'gabei isha yesh safek sfeika. See, I remember there was a sfek-sfeika. What was the sfek-sfeika, yeah? He says, shema einah mimena. She'eina mimena. Ve'im timtzi lomar mimena, shema lo naga bifsara, mibachutz, v'have rak maga beit hastarim. Beit hastarim. Okay, that's what it is, the maga beit hastarim. Okay, let me explain what that means. Inside, a woman's not tamei. We spoke about this. It's called tumas beit hastarim. There's nothing. So it's possible it never touched her. Outside, only inside. So l'gabei nida, there's no chiluk between astarim or not. But l'gabei tumah, there is. So it's a sfek-sfeika on the tumah, so even she won't be tamei. The sfek-sfeika is the question of being metamei her. So there's two things: nida, it's a safek d'rabbanan. There's no hargasha. L'gabei tumah, it doesn't make a difference, because safek d'oraisa, right? So therefore, if it's an davar she'eino mekabel tumah, therefore there's no problem of tumah, so therefore they were meikel completely. Mah she'ein kein a davar mekabel tumah, you still have the problem that the thing is tamei. Comes the Chavos Daas and he argues, yeah. אבל בגט שאינו מקבל טומאה, ... היקשה. ... דבגמר מבואר דכאן בוודאי מגופה טהור. Even if it's ... מגופו, it's tahor, yeah, because it was ... Right? So you don't have the ... So this is what it is. It has to do with sfeikos. Okay, so it's a safek d'rabbanan l'kula. Okay. So we have over here, l'choira, three cheshboinos. Cheshbon number one, that the reason why if it's on davar hamekabel tumah, yitamei, because then it's gezeirah rabbanan, just like it, so too this. Masha'en kein, if it's on davar she'eino mekabel tumah, lo gazru rabbanan. Then we have a pshat: it has to do with tumah d'oraisa. People are going to make a mistake. So if they make a mistake, I understand, people are going to make mistakes. It's a gezeirah; it doesn't do tumah d'oraisa. But according to Tosafos, then it's ki'ilu, just like this, so too we asser her also. Why should it work that way? And then we have a Noidah B'Yehudah learned.

That has to do with safek d'rabbanan l'kula. That when it's on a beged and there's no tumah here at all, so therefore we left it alone. Mashenkein, when it's not on a beged that's eino mekabel, it's on a beged mekabel tumah, so k'ilu the isha gets from that beged, she gets back a tumah, okay? So I want to explain, where does this come? What's the machlokes? What do they want over here? So I'll tell you pshat like this, rabosai. Is the tumah of the davar she'eino mekabel tumah b'etzem? Is there a tumah tack over here? Do we need that the isha should be tamei, and the davar she'eino mekabel tumah, mekabel tumah, has to do with the tumah in taharah? Or the pshat is that it has nothing to do; b'etzem it's tahor, meaning it has to do with where it was found. Davar she'eino mekabel tumah. It's a type of beged, and on this beged Chazal said it's not mekabel. Or it has to do with that, since she's tahorah, so meila—sorry, since the beged is tahorah, therefore she's tahor. Remember I told you the lashon of the Gemara. What's the lashon of the Gemara? K'sheim she'eino mekabel tumah, kach eina mekabel ksamim. That's mashma it's a din in what? The beged. Mashenkin the lashon of Tosafos is, it's just like the beged is tahor, so too lo gazru on her. Which is mashma that we want somehow that the beged should bring back the tumah taharah to the isha. If you learn that it's a din in the kesem hanimtza, does it really make a difference if, let's say, she's holding the beged in her hand and she's metameh herself with it? Oh, and you see from the siddur taharah that it's not that way. Why? Because since the beged is on her and she's carrying it, so then it's metameh her. If you learn it's a din in the beged, then whatever the beged is, it is. Wherever the kesem hanimtza, that's what it is. But if you learn that the heter of kesem hanimtza is because it's not mekabel tumah, meaning because it's taka not mekabel tumah and therefore it's not mekabel ksamim, so where there's a problem of masa, so then ein hachanami, it is mekabel tumah. There is a problem. If it's a patur in the beged, if it's a patur in the beged, then it shouldn't make a difference anymore what the beged is on. Is the beged going to be metameh her? The fact that the beged is not a davar tamei, so it's not mekabel tumah. Here, I'll tell you a very big nafka mina, ready? I want to tell you a very big nafka mina. Listen to this thing. What happens if it's on a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and that thing's on a davar mekabel tumah, but it's not the isha, it's not the isha's hand. It fell onto a davar she'eino mekabel tumah. And let's say after that, it fell further onto a davar mekabel tumah. Huh? It fell on a cloth, and the cloth fell onto the floor. If you need that it should be back to be metameh the isha, how is it metameh the isha? The beged is tamei. Now let's say the beged is davar she'eino mekabel tumah. I'm telling you a story. Let's say it never touched her.

It never touched her. Add a different shayla. Let's say it's a davar she'eino mekabel tumah, and she went to show the rav. And she went to show the rav, yeah? She has to carry it. So right now the rav still didn't pasken, but when the rav sees it, he sees it in her hand while she's holding it. What happens then? It's not tamei? Why not? According to ... maybe it is. Who said? The rav now has to pasken, and he sees her holding it. Okay. I'll tell you over a psak that Mishmeres Taharah, I saw last night, brings from Rav Elyashiv. He says something very interesting. He says the story of the Seder Taharah, we pasken like it. Legabei, in case she made a kinuach with her hand, and then there was a kesem. Why? He says like this: Be'etzem, where is it? It's taka inside her, and the kinuach was just to take it and clean it from her. So where was the actual nimtza? The actual nimtza was on her. The nimtza is on her. Lemaaseh she was mekaneh, so she took it from her. When the nimtza is on her, that's not called a nimtza davar she'eino mekabel tumah. The fact that she wiped it off with a davar she'eino mekabel tumah. And he brings down all the Gedolei meorei ha'ra, Eretz Yisrael, everybody paskens like that. Peldik a chiddush. What does he say? What does Shevet HaLevi say in such a case? Right, that's the story. You don't have to look. That's what they teach you, not to look. But let's say she looked, and she found. So right now, where is it coming from? It's coming from her, but she wiped it off. Is that called a nimtza davar she'eino mekabel tumah? What does he bring now? I know he says not like that. He argues with this. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay, so read me the kinui. Read it. The niyar is not ra'ui l'kabel tumah. Okay, תשמעו טוב רבותי. אני מרגיש קשה להגיד את השיעור הזה. I don't think you know the inyanim that well. And because I'm tired and you don't know the inyanim... I lo markish tov ba'shulas, az bo tishma ma she'ani rotzeh. Zeh hachanah. Yom rishon, we're gonna have a shiur on this seif, okay? But what I want to show you is that's the hemshech to beged tzavua. What's the heter beged tzavua? What's the heter beged tzavua? You know what the heter beged tzavua is? Can't see it, right? So it's not a shaylah of gozer. On a beged tzavua, you don't see. You might be meshayer that it's there, but you can't really see it. Well? On something else? Okay, we're gonna talk about all these things. The point being, you see that whatever the problem is by davar she'eino mekabel tumah, according to the Mechaber it's v'chein, because he puts it in the same halacha. And you'll soon see, Sunday, im yirtzeh Hashem, you'll see that's mamash connected. The way we explain davar she'eino mekabel tumah, you'll understand why the Mechaber says also by, what you call it, by beged tzavua, okay? So use this as hachanah. Sunday, im yirtzeh Hashem, Sunday we're gonna have a shiur on this. Okay, Rabbi, go ahead.