Hilchos Kesamim: Colored Garments, Shivah Nekiyim, and When a Stain Is Tahor

Transcript

It's not good for this, right? It makes the worst thing. So what helps for this? I should go on like this for weeks. I'm telling you, I can go on for weeks if you don't take care of it. You know. Why? Because the coffee makes... Okay, a different time, a different time. Okay, now it's too late already. No, he's saying I need the coffee for tomorrow cup. Okay. Shpansky woke me up yesterday. I'm still up since then. Okay, now. ... שנמצא על בגד צבוע טהורה. ... the Mechaber and the Rama, the end of the Mechaber and the end of the Rama. So be'emes, there's two things that you have to ask. The fact that the Mechaber doesn't bring it, does he not hold of it? ... I mean, it's not niskar. It's funny that he wasn't maskir a psak halacha to go and wear bigdei tzevoinim. Now, be'emes, the Rama, there's a whole shailah in the Rama: did the Rama mean... Halacha. What did the Rama just mean, an eitza tovah? Did the Rama mean, lefikach tilbash, that you have to, you should, tzrichim la'asot etzeh? Well, lefikach tilbash, eitza tovah. It's a lashon lo barur. It's not a clear lashon. Truth is, and there is a tzad to say—you're not coming? The truth is, the truth is that there's a takanah that she should wear bigdei tzivonim, lashon the Rambam. So he's quoting the Rambam. So it could be the pshat is he didn't feel that it's mamash a takanah, but at least it's mutar. Maybe the—harei the Rambam iskishes a takanah, la'asot etzeh. Az haramosha mayvi et haRambam, ulai hapshat hu shehu באמת אומר לך לעשות, he's telling you to do it. Now why doesn't he use the strong lashon of tiktu? All right. Or the pshat in the Rama is that he didn't want to pasken mamash like the Rambam, that there's a takanah, but al kol panim it must be that it works if there's such a takanah. And the mechaber, I guess, either didn't bring this because it's only an eitza, or maybe he didn't hold of it at all, which is a big shaylah. B'emes there's a whole diyun in the poskim that maybe it's not true. Maybe on bigdei tzivonim it is mekabel tumah. So it could be that the mechaber is paskening, if it is already al beged tzavua. Okay, so then it's a tahorah. But to go and make it that it should be al beged, tzavua, maybe not. Again, rabosai, listen carefully. I hold I'm telling you pashut pshat in the Mechaber. The Mechaber says there's halacha that if it's on beged tzavua, it works. The Rama says, Lefikach, she talbish begdei tzvuim. So first of all, I mean, talbish, it's a takanah. If he's quoting the Rama, it's a takanah. What's pshat that the Mechaber doesn't bring it? What's the pshat that the Mechaber doesn't bring? Hu lo meivi she... bigdei tzivonim. Im omrim baRama she's rak eitzah toivah, so maybe a mechaber lo matzia eitzah. Eich veis? So halacha is eitzah. Ktzas tirutz, aval lo me'achuz tirutz. Aval haRama says, lefikach, hu meivi eitzah. O yecholim lehagid shebe'emes hapshat hu, shehaMechaber sover im ze kara, azei tahorah. Aval lalechet, la'asot sheze yikreh kacha, ze kvar lo nachon. What do you say, Daniel? Yeah, you maskim?

You heard? Either the pshat in the mechaber is he doesn't hold of it at all, which is one shita. There is a shita that holds it's not true. Bigdei tzivonim is not the right thing to do. You don't go and wear bigdei tzivonim, right? I'lu ma'asit works. The teretz is it works before you did it, meaning if it happened, then it works. It's a kacha kacha, בסדר. Kesem shenimtza, aval לעשות שקסם יהיה, זה לא יעבוד. That's not going to work. The Ramo is saying then, לפיכך תלבש להדיא to be matzil me'ketamim. So the mechaber is going to learn it helps. יש דבר כזה, אבל זה לא דין שצריכים לעשות את זה. שהרי זה רק חוסך את הסוגיא של הכסם. You're not supposed to do that. You're not supposed to take away the whole sugya of kesam, right? Yeah? If it happened, fine. And the Ramo is saying to go and look, to take care of kesamim, take care of it. Better that way. באמת מה הסבר המחלוקת? If it works, it works. Why shouldn't you do it? Why not? I mean, it's a very good eitzah. Why shouldn't it be that way? So we discussed this. Remember I asked you, is there a yesod to be ma'alin mayim from a kli? I asked you this question. Maybe it's only by kinuach. L'choirah that's what it says in this mechaber. You can't go lehadgia and put on bigdei tzivonim to be maalim ayin from a kesem. You can't go and make that you shouldn't see a kesem. Maybe, maybe that's the pshat. What, he taina her phone? Did you do the homework? Did you search what I asked you to search? You didn't see the shailah last. What's the shailah? No? How could nobody ask it? I asked them a pashut question. By kinuach it says if they wipe, they shouldn't look. What about not kinuach? Regular some, don't look. And the pshat could be, it's not going to work. You can't lehadgia not look at what's there. By a kinuach, meichateis. By a kesem, if she feels that there's a leichus there, there's something there, you can't say meichateis. And that could be the shita of the Mechaber. The Mechaber is saying, you can't go and wear bigdei tzivonim in order to make it that you shouldn't see it. The Rambam, either the Rambam held you could, or it could be, a taich in the Rambam could be like this. The Rambam learns that it's not a hatzalah masayin that I can't see. Together with the color of the tzivonim, it's not a kesem. It's not pshat I can't see memeila. It's grad like I told you yesterday, it's not a kesem. Eino mekabel pirush, b'metzius eino mekabel. It's not working. No, it's not. No, it's not. Either pshat is I can't see, so if I can't see, so don't look at it. If I can't see, so don't look. All the pshat is that right now, that's not dam. Remember I told you, kesem has to be dam. It's not dam. It's not dam gamur lefanecha. It's not. The Rashi I told you. Remember the diyuk that we said in Rashi? It's not the pshat that I'malei ayin, I can't see. It's not about can't see. It's about l'maaseh, there's no red over there. Good to do that. It's not halacha l'Moshe miSinai. It's not halacha l'Moshe miSinai. Could you imagine a person comes and says, You know what? I'll put on sunglasses. He mamash came in at the right time. I'll put on sunglasses, and I'll look at the ketem through sunglasses. So you'll say, You can't go put on sunglasses. Okay, so what about a person who wears sunglasses all day? You know who? Let's say you bring a ketem to Rav Elyashiv. He can't see. He's wearing brown glasses. Does he have to take it off? Huh? Maybe you're allowed to pasken that way. Why? He didn't see. Yeah, maybe I can pasken in the room and there's no window. You bring it to a blind man. What do you see over there? I don't know. I can't see. Oh, ... because you're ... Wearing bigdei tzivonim is not the same thing. Wearing lehedya bigdei tzivonim is not the same thing. To put on big...

Of course you can't see, because you put on bigdei tzivonim. What do you expect to see? I'm taining that according to the Mechaber, it's like putting on sunglasses. You're putting on sunglasses. According to Rama, it's not putting on sunglasses, but the pshat is that's not called a kesem. The kesem is what it's on. The nimtza, l'maaseh, right now there's no red color there. It has nothing to do with me physically not being able to see. It's not about me, l'maaseh, not seeing. So then the shaila is, is it really mutar misafek or mutar mivadaus? If you say because I don't know the color, so it's misafek. Right, that's really the nafka mina. At the end of the day, the pshat is I don't know, so it's okay, forget about it. Misafek, or pshat is it's not a kesem, there's nothing there. B'vadaus, it's not a kesem. Huh? You're thinking, ah, I started him thinking. Okay. Let me tell you another nekudah I was thinking about. You ready? Are you allowed to wear bigdei tzivonim bimei leivin, bimei libunah? So they talk about it. It's a big tumult, right? Okay. Shivah nekiyim, ata lovish. Okay, so the psak halacha is that if a woman is mamash, she can't get clean, they let you do it. Okay, good. That's the l'maaseh. What's the machlokes? Some say it doesn't even work. Why doesn't it work? What do you mean? L'maaseh there's no kesamim on bigdei tzivonim. So maybe they mean to say it doesn't work in Hilchos Shivah Nekiyim, maybe. Maybe that's what they mean. Oh, since there's a din of Shivah Nekiyim, good, it works in Hilchos ksamim, but it's not going to work in Hilchos Shivah Nekiyim. Oy dilma, it's not going to work in Hilchos ksamim either. Why? Because how does it work, bichlal, ksavainim by ksamim? If the taich is it's not a kesem, then it works. What's the difference? It works. But if the pshat is there's a din of halamos ayin, but by the din of Shivah Nekiyim, it's not to be ma'aleh mayin. So the whole bigdei tzivonim can't work. It's like looking at a bedikah through sunglasses. It doesn't make—you had no—no, no, because this is—no. So you know what? You caused that. Right, so l'maaseh, if she just happened to be wearing bigdei tzivonim during Shivah Nekiyim and they're just staying on it, good, so now it doesn't work anymore. No, I mean to say, again, I'm not talking about a pshia. I'm not talking about a pshia. If you learn that the pshat is it's not a kesem, so she did the wrong thing, but it's not a kesem. What are you going to do? But if you learn that the pshat is that it is a kesem, but you can't see it—yeah, but the din of Shivah Nekiyim is to go see it. So what does that mean? You cannot? When you cannot? You could. You could. Had you not worn the colored underwear. Good, so again, so you can't come—it's a safek, so you don't have taharah, you don't have Shivah Nekiyim. No, what I mean to say is it doesn't work. That's not our special din it doesn't work. It doesn't work because it is a kesem. If you learn on Shivah Nekiyim it's not a kesem, if you learn on tzivonim it's not a kesem. Okay, so it's not a kesem. But if you learn that it's a kesem, another pshat is you can't tell, yeah, but by shivah nekiyim that's nothing, that doesn't work. Okay. Nachman said, תוכנית. שמואל תמודא לרב... ותחזור על מה שדיברנו מהתחלה, עוד פעם. המחבר... הרמ״א מוסיף שלכן האישה לא תלבש בגדי צבעונים כדי להציל המכתמים. Okay, אז עכשיו השאלה... למה המחבר לא מביא את העצה שמביא הרמ״א? עצה. אז יכולים להגיד, האם נאמר שהרמ״א זה רק עצה טובה, או שנגיד שהרמ״א והמחבר חולקים? מה זה עצה? זה עצה טובה, והמחבר לא רצה להביא עצה טובה, איך... כמו שאילן אמר. או שאנחנו יכולים להגיד... או שאנחנו יכולים להגיד שזה חילוק בהבנה דיש... שהמחבר מבין שכתם יש פה כתם.

רק למה שיש לי בעיה לטמא, אז חכמים לא גזרו, כי אם זה בגדי צמר, אותם חכמים שגזרו לא גזרו על בגדי צמר. אבל יש פה כתם, יש פה דם. למה אני לא יכול לראות, או שכל סיבה אחרת? אז אין לשים דבר של הֶגֶה אני לא יכול לראות. אני לא רואה. אז תעשה משהו שכן תראה. אם זה קרה, קרה, אבל מלכתחילה לעשות שזה לא יקרה, אנחנו לא מורשים. אבל הרמבם אומר לא. כן, אבל שכל דין של כתם זה גם, שזה על הבגד, וכל עוד והבגד צבעונים, אז הוא לא קיבל את הכתם, אין פה בכלל דין של כתם. ... זה לא שאני מלאך, תאמור. ... עכשיו נדבר בימי לובן, בימי שבע נקיים, אוקיי, נו. בשבע נקיים יש מחלוקת אם זה עובד, בשבע נקיים. אז אנחנו פוסקים אם זה למעשה יותר מדי תמים, אי אפשר להיטהר, עד טבילה, אוקיי. יש אומרים שזה לא יעזור לך. זו מחלוקת, זו מחלוקת בפוסקים. למה? מה המחלוקת? אמרתי תכף. או יכולים להגיד שמהלכות כתם זה כן עובד, אבל הלכות שבע נקיים לא עובד. הבעיה היא שאין לך שבע נקיים. יפה מאוד, זה very פשוט סברה. You're right, some it works. שבע נקיים you don't have. או יכולים להגיד שבאמת זו מחלוקת בגזירה, פירוש, אם נלמד שהיסוד של צבעונים זה להעלים עין. Poyesh din she'im ata mali mayim, ata tamei. That's the din of shev v'al ta'aseh. The din of shev v'al ta'aseh is that to look at check and not to be malei mayim. So you went, you were malei mayim, so you're not tahor. What do you want? Hayesod shel ketem is a hepech, hayesod shel shev v'al ta'aseh. Ketem b'beged tziv'oni is hepech, hepech. It's the opposite of shev v'al ta'aseh. The din of shev v'al ta'aseh is you root your shev v'al ta'aseh. It has nothing to do with the ketem. Ketem is beautiful, right? But the halachah is, when you're malei mayim, you don't have shev v'al ta'aseh. But that's shev v'al ta'aseh. O dilma it has to do with the yesod of ketem. The yesod of ketem, the heter is based on halamas ayin. But the din of shev v'al ta'aseh tells me you're not allowed to be malei mayim. So the chacham didn't give you a din of leivin, of tziv'onim in such a case. So then it depends if it's not a ketem. No, so then it's a... The chacham didn't give you the heter. Either the chacham's heter works. It's a stira to hilchos shev v'al ta'aseh. Or the pshat is it can't work. You're using a mechanics which you're not supposed to, which is a program; it doesn't work during shev v'al ta'aseh. It doesn't work. You didn't look. Okay, that's just, so what do you want? Okay. Oidilma, it's a metzius thing. Now let me show you a very nice ha'ara that Rav Fall asked me, and I was me'ayin into it. One second, if you say that it's not a ketam, then even by shivah nekiyim it's not a problem. If it's not a ketam, then it's not a problem. That's what I'm telling you. So what do you want? Grada not a ketam. What do you want? Right. No, but maybe it's not. Yeah, but it won't aser you. Yeah, because of— No, but you're naki from dam. We don't have dam here. No, but he's saying it's not a raya that you're naki. Yeah, but dirty isn't a problem shivah nekiyim. Dam is a problem shivah nekiyim. We don't know. Chachamim said that this is not the ketem, this is not dam. A ketem b'yesod is a problem during shivah nekiyim, but it's not a ketem. You know, it's interesting. I was thinking to myself, when they matir the ketamim that are not mamash red, is it a difference between regular ketamim or even during shivah nekiyim?

And it's clear, they do it even during shivah nekiyim. Ketamim on white, which aren't fiery red, like a real red, they're matir it also. Even, yeah. What did I say? They're matir it. The shivah nekiyim, it's not a keta. Even on white? Even on white. I'm telling you, even meleivan on white. In other words, it's not pshat that they're only matir it during later. Lo bimei shivah nekiyim. Matirin ... mamash adam b'shivah nekiyim. You have to leave. You have to leave. Who got in an accident? Car accident. I hear. I saw on your face. When did it happen? How much money damage? You know, you should tell her after a few days not new anymore, so. At least report. And there's no insurance? No, there is insurance. We're just afraid the insurance will... And it's worth it to pay more. Are you sure? Maybe she can take a thousand dollars. No, it's ten. Maybe a thousand dollars. In junkyard, they fix those things for like a hundred dollars. She's not gonna want to go there. She's gonna want to go to... Whatever the price anywhere will be five, six hundred dollars, in junkyard will be like a hundred dollars. Someone in Brooklyn, where is it? She's not gonna want to go there. Rebbe, it happened to me, Rebbe. In Brooklyn, it's happened. I don't know if she has a right. Now it's too late to go to police already. I should have. You sure about that? Because her insurance also goes up. Take it to Etsy. Her insurance would also go up. She would not want to. My junk can fix this very well. They fix it. Okay. You know, I lost $300 this week. My glasses, my Shabbos glasses, gone. I was upset for maybe half a minute, then I said, I mean, the truth is, I don't... I never use those glasses for learning. Maybe that's what happened. Mishkafayim shelo mishtamshim lalimud, rak l'yofi, bishvil Shabbat, bishvil chatunahs, ein zchut kiyum. Mishkafayim eilu... No, ze avad, ne'evad, bateil kehit. You see what's going on in here? You see how many scratches? Can you see through here? I want to know if you could see through here. Leshesh shanim, heveti את זה לזב, אומר לי, אתה חייב חדש. לשש שנים. לא, זה עובד, עובד. It's upsetting us. Okay. Yeah, it's good, it's good. My voice is my problem. ... You think so? You think so? I'm a pasken. Okay. Okay, let's go. Ready? Now. I can't help, man. I have to speak tonight somewhere in Lakewood for a few hundred people. Okay, let's go. Now. Ah. Okay. מהלכה, כשרואים דם דם, וברור שזה דם, אפילו על בגד צבעוני. יש ידוע, בספרים יש מחלוקת בזה. עוד פעם, המחלוקת תלוי בזה. אם אומרים שזה סוג של הלכה מסייע, אתה מעלה מים, אבל אתה רואה. אדם יגיד, אני מעלה מים, אבל בינתיים אתה רואה, you see between the, you see מעלה מים, right? ומחבואים או מסתוסים ככה, right? הסתכלת? כן, הסתכלת, you saw it, מעלה מים, but you see it. הריבד פשט is, it's not called a כתם, because it's on בגדי צבעונים מעורב בו. So who cares? Who cares if you see that?

What happens if it's on beged tzavua, but the tzavua is bohir? The milstaka, the milstaka. White holds it doesn't make a difference. Yeah, white, all the poskim say. It's considered white also. Right. No, because it's a type of tzeva. Yeah, yeah. So what is— you painted it white, and then... Okay, so there's white, white, natural white, and then there's white which is off, like... I said that. No, but here it's yellow. I'm not considered... No, it's saying, it's saying a gevaldige vort. They're saying that, which is one of my raayos. I mean, how could you call about white? I mean, white is white. And the Torah says in Hilchos Tzava, there's the white in the red. Of course, 100%. It gives a different color. It shades the red. It shades the red, so it's not kemarah dam gamur. I hold it's an emesdige vort. You know, when the poskim talk about white— see, I wasn't there yet. I'm still first holding by yellow, right? They talk about yellow. So the milstaka says, בסדר, yellow is tzahov. What is yellow? Tzahov. Tzahov, right? רואים, מה אתה לא רואה? שחור וחום וירוק, זה לא רואים. אבל צהוב רואים. אבל מה? So the milstaka אומר, בסדר, צבוע. מה שם? Right? Now, forget, the Masham, I think it was fakeir. I wrote here, the Masham chelek aleph says even if it's clear, afilu bohir, as long as it's a color. What do you mean? You see the dam. So today the poskim, Rav Oisha, right, Rav Vozner, yeah, I'm sure you looked at all the little cheating books, right? Everybody, right? Today we're not meikel on what you can see. Rav Ovadia says, yeah, because he's good, he's good, man, you should know. Let me tell you something. When you know—oh, he brings Rav Vozner. You know why? Because Rav Ovadia is learning that any little change is not, it's not it already. That's it. Rav Vozner, lo yachid, kulam omrim it. Kulam. Tzivonim is רק בצבע. It's not true that you can see. They're never going to use yellow lights because they're going to make their meat look ugly. They use white lights to give it the bright. So that's what I'm telling you. That's what I'm telling you. If you learn that the pshat is that any change, any change, that's what they're arguing about. Mamash, I'm telling you, that's klar the hesber of the machlokes. אם יש הלכה של צבוע, גנדיק, נגמר הסיפור. למה? לאו אם את הדם כדם גמור. I'm saying, that's what it is. So what's the shaylah of white? Shaylah of white is gevaldik a heter. It's gevaldik. L'maaseh, the moment you put it on white, that's a different color. You know, I want to teach you what they do. You know what they do? When they look at a marah, they don't take it and put it— On a table, because the background is, they put it on the envelope. They'll take the marah. Why? Because it adds light. He told you to look at it in the hand. He just creases the etzem marah a few times to get the color from the beged itself. It might have the biggest stain, even more redness from the back. Oh, I'm sure he did. Somebody did that. Somebody came to spy. People can envelope it, never do that, because it's going to give it a bright red. But he does, Avsh does it all the time. All right. They put it against the white background. But the point, I'm just trying to bring out a point. You see that any little shade, you see, you see what it is, but any little added, kol tosefet, or lavan, or mashu acher, mosif o megarea batzurah, ve'etzem, etzem hatzeva shel hamarah, niflu me'neira. זה הפשט. או שהוא מלאים, לא רואים, או הפשט הואים, אבל זה לא אותו דבר. Okay, now. רציתי רק להגיד, כשרואים המטפה, לפעמים המטפה...

למה? מוסיף אפילו. או מגרע. למה? That's probably what he was doing. כן. ודאי לא לשים את העד על גמרא. You take the ed and you put it on this. It's a little bit something. It is. You know what you're supposed to look at? To the shemesh you're supposed to look. Huh? Because it's all red. Okay, you want to know something? How many times did I tell you that I go outside? You ever see what I do? And I don't know if you remember, I tell you that as a reason. Everything here is red. So in your mind, badat, there's a red right away. What about sun also? Yellow. No. Obviously the sun is not. Macheshiu. Macheshiu what? I say shalom aleichem, what? So I can't talk to you. I'm telling you, I wish I could talk to you. What is this? You got to show a melechah from anybody in the middle of a shiur. You know any other person gives you a shiur? That's it. So I gave you, see, I gave you shalom aleichem, and I said I'd like to talk to you after the shiur. Okay, now listen carefully. Beged menumar. Write this down. If you're in a room that's all red, or you're in a room that's all something else. Maybe that's, it's changing. It's changing. You should try to look at the marah l'fi mashahu. You know that it's true, though, that that's psychologically true? That when a person sees a lot of red, he sees red. A new color is striking. You get used to it, you know, it becomes a little less. Okay, now. Beged minumar, spotted. So the Chavos Daas says, Achon sheyesh tzvaim, aval yesh gam lavan. Yesh tzvaim, aval yesh lavan, right? So, Chavos Daas holds everything already. Chavos Daas holds you don't have the heter of ksamim, right? The Sidrei Taharah argues. Let me find the numbers here. Doesn't depend on how it's situated? How much? Both. How much do you have over grease together? In the mitztaref. He brings Reb Akiva Eiger. Does he bring Reb Akiva Eiger? Meiko. Sidrei Taharah, sif katan chaf aleph, meiko. Machlokes. The Moishe says, the Moishe says, Tamo shel haChavos Daas mistaber. Moishe paskens like the Chavos Daas. Makes sense. How could you come and say you have the heter? You don't have the heter anymore. What do you mean? What's the pshat? Because Reb Moishe was learning in the Chavos Daas, it's mali mayim. It's not the ma'alma, you see it. But you're right, half of it is uncolored, but the half that's not uncolored is teaching you what it is. Migaleh. Mashenkin, if you learn it's a din that it's not a kesem when it's on such a beged, says Reb Akiva Eiger, that's what I hold the svara of Reb Akiva Eiger is. What's the difference if you know what it is? It doesn't really make a difference. Okay, Rafi, get up and repeat it. Yeah. Isn't there different shades of color? Is that true? Sure, because the colored one... No, no, no, I need to say, let's say you have a white... and you have different shades of red, or it's just one... Sometimes you have the ketem... We'll get to that. That's later cases. How could they say, therefore, whatever is on the... No, you see, it's one ketem. What do you mean? In that one ketem, there's different areas. This is darker red, this is lighter red. No, it doesn't work like that. It only works like that l'gabi shiur, not l'gabi color. So how do they know? Maybe there's no shiur. Maybe the one that went on the red color, on the... But you're missing the story. The tzivonim is only a heter because you don't know what it is. But the moment you know what it is, you know what's on the white. You know what the other shades there are in the color, because we said the shades change. You don't understand. They hold that there's no heter when it's red. The heter of shades is because you don't know what it is. It's not a b'etzemdike heter. They're learning that...

The heter of not red is because the Chacham said, I never saw red. I don't know what it is. Because now let's say they see half a gris of red, real, real whatever bad one, the bad red, right? The rest of it is on green color. The rest on what color? The rest of the whatever. So again, if it's the same thing, so you can't be meikel, I don't know, because you do know what it is. I'm asking, let's say somebody would come and say, Listen, by the way, if this was white, the rest of that stain would have been light, light pink, and you would have been metaher it anyway, so why are you being machmir now because it's green? You're right. So that's, for us, the sevara of fakert, that you need—see, that sevara holds you don't need mamash colors of dam, as long as it's red. Yeah, I hear what you're— you can't use the sevara of mamash red, red, and then put it back in where you have only chatzi gris and a chanami. The first sheet holds we don't care, as long as you know that there's dam over there. It's just, I can't tell there's dam. If you can tell, you can tell. Second sheet holds, yeah, but it has to do with—part of it is, yeah, dam, and part of it is kesem, which is tahor. Okay, get up and repeat it. That's right. That's right. That's right, 100 percent, even if a little bit. Don't say half-half. Okay, get up and say it. Get up and say it. Yeah, no, from this Chavos Daas. So there's a machlokes between the Acharonim if the ketem is partly on color, partly on white. Some say if it's partly on color, partly on white, you have the part that's on color, you have a heter, the tzavua, and the part that's on white is you don't have a heter, so you have to work with shiurim. Other Acharonim say the Chavos Daas says no. Once you know for sure that some of it is definitely blood, because you see on the white that it is blood, so it's megaleh even on the tzavua that that's also obviously blood, so now it can be metzaref the whole thing to make it into a gris and make it into a ketem. Obviously the nafka mina is because some learn that something which is on a beged tzavua is dam which you can't see. Therefore, if you have some kind of a hachachah... You see? And some say, no, anything which is on beged tzavoa is not a ketem. So therefore it's like it's not there with him. So you have to work without it. So that's why you have the entire of grease without the color. And it tells you you don't have grease without the color underneath. Anyway. Okay, now. Beged samud laguf. So the Pischei Teshuva brings down siman katan chaf alef, b'shem Achsam Sofer. It's dafka beged elyon. Beged tachton samud laguf, there's no heter of tziv'onim. The Chazon Ish comes in siman pei tes, ot beis, and he says, where did he get it from? What's the difference? Why should there be a difference? Lo matzinu b'shum makom lechalek b'zeh. Beged samud laguf, tachtonim, im yesh ptur shel tziv'onim. Ma, because it's a... I can say that there is no heter of tziv'onim? Samud laguf, ein heter shel tziv'onim. Yeah, and therefore, that's the kasha of the Chazon Ish. The Chazon Ish wants to know, why is there a problem? Now the truth is, let's go back to the Rama. When the Rama says, lefikach tilbash bigdei tziv'onim, according to Chasam Sofer, it's beged elyon? Oh, that the Rama is going against? How can he be cholek on a mefurash Chasam Sofer? Very hard. Very hard for me to mekabel, unless he's learning with the Mechaber. I don't know. It's very hard for me to mekabel. He says, Gemara, when they said bigdei tziv'onim, they weren't gozer; that's only invisible clothing. Yes, it means he's mamash, he forgot a mefurash Rama. That's a katan. So, they're trying to convince Yosef brings the shita of the Rambam that he brings the same eitz as the Rama in the Beis Yosef, so the Beis Yosef brings it. So the Rama, why would he argue? I'm asking, but why did he bring it? He says that the Beis Yosef brings the Rambam. Okay, good, but... It's very hard to say he paskens; it's not here. No. Acharonim want to like to cholek on the Rama. I don't want to. Tell me, outwardly. What the Rama... Tell me, do you remember the Gemara that the Gemara says there was huchzak b'shecheinoseha, and the Gemara says, how was it huchzak? With the clothing. I mean, I thought the only difference is tachtonim. It was outside also. No, that was the heker for ba'al. That was like a heker that she wears these clothes. B'shecheinoseha, it says. So I'm asking, nobody's sitting there looking at her underwear?

So what was it? It was beged elyon. The Rama is not telling you to wear neat clothing. He's just saying during your k'mei time, wear colored underwear. So I'm trying to— you don't even know what I'm talking about. I'm trying to show— so, you know, if you would listen and you'd realize what I'm saying, you wouldn't scream. You'd understand. I'm trying to show you that there was outward difference between whites and colors. It had to have been, right? Okay. Is the Rama himself talking about outs or ins? Now you're telling me he's talking about ins. Wait, so be quiet. I'm going to have to start screaming at you. Be quiet. So I'm telling you like this: if the Rama means even ins, right, lefikach tilbash, she should wear bigdei tzivonim, so the pshat is he meant outward also, because there is a problem with outward also. There is a sugya to be matzil from some on the outward. Okay. My question to you is, how does it help inward and outward if it's going to be outward, then it's going to be inward also? I'm asking a pashut zach. He holds that beged elyon it will work, right? The Chasam Sofer is learning that there is such a thing called takanas bigdei tzivonim. We're going with it. So according to Chasam Sofer, what was the takanah? Outward. So I'm asking, if on the outside it is, it's not on the inside, what happened? What was the story? If it doesn't help, if it doesn't help you on the inside, so what is the takanah about? So then how did it flew, it went— I mean, how did it go? It had to have went b'derech hagadim hapnimiyim. But they didn't have b'derech hagadim hapnimiyim back then. You know what, you know what? Could you let me talk? Let me talk. If I can't say one word, how do you expect to understand what I'm saying? I'm asking a simple thing. According to Chasam Sofer, there was a takanah. He's not arguing on the metzius. So what was the takanah? Outwardly, clothing. Okay, so I'm asking, how did the kesem get there if on the inward it doesn't help you? I know you don't know. I know you don't know. That's why you shouldn't talk, because you don't know. You're modeh al ha'emes, you don't know, so be quiet. That's it. Again, so I'm asking, she's wearing bigdei tzivonim on the chutz. Why was this such a takanah? What— I mean, it definitely, once it touches the underwear, it's finished. It's over. So therefore, I have to let me talk. No, so the answer is that I want to say the answer, that they didn't have the underwear in those days. So when the Rama came and said, tilbash, so he wasn't talking about that, because they didn't have that. So that's how the Chasam Sofer learns the Rama. According to the Chasam Sofer, bhechrech— The pshat in the Rama is that they didn't have. What's the diyuk? The Rama doesn't say. Rama talks about bigdei... Why? Hechach teisi? He's talking about bigdei tziva'onim. It's a hechrech; it has to be that way. He argues on the Rama, so what does he hold? He holds the Gemara is talking about what? With tachtonim there wasn't; it has to be without. So then it's not muchrach anymore. The Rama is cholek. Now I want to tell you an interesting diyuk. What is the word bigdei tziva'onim? Bigdei tziva'onim. The plural. It means every day. That's what she's referring to, bigdei in the plural. All her begadim should be. All her begadim. In general, all her begadim, right? The word bigdei is all her begadim. According to the Rama, why do you need the outwardly begadim? Just do the inwardly begadim and finished. Why, according to the Rama, unless there was a case that the... that it happened she wasn't wearing them. Maybe, I'm trying, but it's such a nachshchidike case to come and say that because of that she has to wear bigdei...

Tzivayon. Unless you learn that there was a system, whites and colors, and therefore even all her clothing was white, all her clothing was with tzivayonim. It doesn't mean clothing on top, or only clothing on the bottom. The Ramaz is a little bit difficult to understand, the bigdei, the word bigdei tzivayonim. Unless the Ramaz, and that's what he's learning, according to the Chasam Sofer, the bigdei tzivayonim makes him to understand you don't need beged. If you meant one underwear, you say beged tzivayonim. That's how you would say it. Unless you mean every day a different one. That's not the Ramaz's business, that you change your underwear every day. It's not. I mean, it's not for the Ramaz to come and talk to you about changing underwear. Let's take a... says a little Rama, right? Bigdei means begadim shel chutz, plural. So the Chasam Sofer is learning it's referring to begadim shel chutz. Okay, now. Not now. Now it's not the right time. Yeah, I'm going to get to it in a few minutes. Okay. There's another way we can learn the Chasam Sofer, that maybe the Chasam Sofer means to wear bigdei tzivayonim, right, lechatchila. That's what the Chasam Sofer means. Lechatchila, to go and take bigdei begadim bifnim and wear it, that you don't do. But not that it doesn't work, right? What's the chiluk? This is the chiluk that we spoke. To bediavad, this is like catching the ketem. To go bedavka to catch the ketem, and it shouldn't be a ketem, that you can't do. Maybe if it fell on bigdei tzivonim, a bad is kosher, even tachtonim. That's the pshat of Sam Sofer, and I hold that that's mamash a raya to what we spoke. If you learn that the pshat is it isn't a ketem, so what's the difference if you went lechatchila to catch it? But if it's pshat that it's just mimalei mayin, so lechatchila you can't go wear bigdei tzivonim. The Gemara is a kefirah. Do you hear how we're learning the Chasam Sofer? Not the Chasam Sofer is being mechaber between tachtonim and elyonim. It would be good even on tachtonim also. Now you can't lechatchila go to put on tachtonim. So what's the chiluk between elyonim and tachtonim? This is the chiluk. By elyonim it rather fell on the elyonim, ze yarad al haelyonim. Aval by tachtonim, ata mechapes leha'alim mayim, lema'im miktamim, ze ata lo yachol la'asot. Okay. Now, what happens if it's ketem av that you can peel it? So Milchemes says that the ketem is omeid bifnei atzmo. It has nothing to do with the beged. Mimeila, it's going to be tamei. Now I want to discuss this with you. Fall asked me a nice shayla. What about kelim? It says beged. What about kelim? It should say al davar shehu tziva'oni. Why does it say beged? So the truth is, the Rambam's lashon is klei. Klei tzivonim. But it's not a shvere raya. Kelim can be begadim, right? So maybe it's not a raya. Now, but another nekudah. By keilim is exactly what I want to get to. By keilim, so grada they say there's no chiluk. If you look at the Baal HaShulchan and the Pardes Shlomo and the Kmeis, and this one and that one, who are in keilim? I didn't say anybody there argues. The way we're learning can be very, very. Keilim is not bolea; the begadim are bolea. And since the beged is a chelek of the ketem, that's when it's called me'urav bo, seva acher. It's not about you can't tell, but by keilim it's not called that it's me'urav bo. Maybe not. Maybe it's דווקא by begadim. Since the beged is kolet the dam, so ha-beged v'ha-dam is the ketem. Ma she'ein kein by keilim, it's a ketem me'al gabei, me'al gabei keilim. Okay, now. He's starting. Okay, one more minute. Okay, now. Okay. Yeah, we have to stop Mincha. Okay, maybe after Mincha we can finish. ... after Mincha.