Hilchos Kesamim: Blood on the Heels, Hands, and Feet—What Counts as Efshar

Transcript

שיימצא שם כסם טמאה. ... כסם טמאה, אוקיי? אלו במקומים שאפשר שבא שם מן המקור. You need a place that's efshar. You know what the word efshar means? Not vadai and not muchach, right? We'll see in the poskim: muchach, lo muchach, kem mistavra, lo mistavra. I didn't see that in Shulchan Aruch. I saw the word efshar. Did you make this deal? Are you maskim to it? Forget about the rest of the shiur. This shiur is it. That's the whole shiur. That's it. ... efshar, no? It doesn't say shemuchach, shemistavra. ... efshar. יסוד של הסעיף במילה זו, שבא מן המקור. כיצד? נמצאת על עקבה — עקבה, ... עקבה. עכשיו אני פוחד, יש לי פה אחד תימני שמישראל, שכל מילה שאני אגיד הוא יתקן אותי. אני אשכנזי, תעזוב אותי. על עקבה טמאה, אוקיי? וכן אם נמצא על כלי ריקה, וכולי וכולי, הלכות: נמצא פה ונמצא שמה, ונמצא כאן, ונמצא שמה, כאן הוי וכאן... So the Taz says, b'makom she'efshar bama, kenimtza la'akeivah. How did it reach akeivah? He says, hegia shamah. אומר הט״ז, שמדובר שישבהה כדרך ישמעאלים. She sits like the derech Yishmaelim. כשנושאים רגליהם תחת אגוויהם. So it would come out, right? So it would come out that it's mashma that she did it, right? כולם יושבים ככה. כל הספרדים של של אז היו יושבים ככה, דרך ישמעאלים ככה יושבים. You have a picture of Baba Sali. Baba Sali sat like that. Okay, now, המשמעות, רבותי, המשמעות, רבותי, that it's talking about she did it. And if she didn't do it, so this halacha is not negeia, right? I mean, it's funny, isn't it, that the Mechaber doesn't speak the case, no? It's a particular case. Unless that was the normal. I guess you have to say, זה היה דרך של הנשים אז. זה היה דרך שכולם ישבו ככה. לכן המחבר לא צריך לפרש כגון שישבה ככה, שכולם היו יושבים ככה. Truthfully, truthfully, יש אחרונים שסוברים... מאחר שיש כאלו שיושבים ככה, אז אפילו אי לא ישבה ככה, הלכה זה הלכה. ככה כתוב באחרונים, שאיילו באחרונים, you hear? If you look at the Orach HaShulchan, look at the Orach HaShulchan, סעיף מ״ו, סעיף מ״ו. He discusses, I mean, because don't forget the Orach HaShulchan Ashkenaz. מי יושב ככה? מי יכול לשבת ככה? ... מי יכול? ... Says the Orach HaShulchan, ולכאורה לפי זה, במדינתנו שאין יושבים כן, צריך להיות היתר. ולמה לא ביארו האחרונים זה? ... הרמ״א אשכנזי, לא היה ... לא היה אשכנזי. הוא לא ישב ככה, אשתו לא ישבה ככה, right? אז למה לא ביאר זה? ולכן צריך לומר דחיישינן שמא יושב כן, לאו ודאי. לאו ודאי. So what happens if she's very heavy?

She's a big woman, and then she'll never sit like that. She can never. If she needed to, you would need a... to get her off the floor. How should she sit on a chair? I mean, in times of the Aruch HaShulchan, they didn't have chairs. So I'm talking, I'm talking l'maaseh. Of course there were chairs. Again, I'm talking l'maaseh. But he says an interesting vart: שהרי לא ביארו האחרונים. It comes out, in those times where they didn't have chairs, how did big women sit? Forget about that. They didn't sit. They stood for 24 hours. I'm talking... What do you want? It's a very simple thing. He's saying that it's possible she sat. ולב אדעתא. אז אני אומר, מהי ההלכה? כיש ודאי שלא ישבה ככה. יש נשים שלא יכולים לשבת ככה. I'll tell you the truth, most women that I know today—I don't know anybody who sits like this. ולב אדעתא, she didn't—she wouldn't know, or she wouldn't know if she sat בדרך ישמעאלים, who sits like this? Who? חידוש נפלא, חידוש נפלא, huh? אבל באמת, נראה לי דאין הטעם מפני ישיבת ישמעאלים, דאפילו בישיבה שלנו משכחת לה, שהיו רגליה בולטות מעט, סמוכות, דבאופן זה הוה היקף ממש כנגד אותם... Even regular chair. שייך, אפשר. So not common. Okay, listen. If you do me a favor, could we have like a shiur instead of having like a ... Yeah, you sit like that. You say, okay, calm, okay, we got the point. I'm saying, why? It's a shiur. A little bit I'm letting, but I'm saying it can't be a whole, you sit like this, you sit like that. Okay, come. So let me ask you like this, yeah? So what's the machlokes then? The prisha didn't know. The prisha knew this also. The prisha was ... No, Daniel, what are you talking? The prisha didn't know. Now, the Aruch HaShulchan knew it could be, but the prisha didn't know it could be. And no such ... such a ... ever such a thing. Huh? I don't understand. It could be, it could be that she sat. התאזו אומרת שזה מדובר בישיבת ישמעאל. Okay. אז השאלה היא, הרי השולחן ערוך לא כתב. It doesn't say that, Shulchan Aruch. It just says עקב. Okay. שבאמת בפוסקים שואלים, היום לא יושבים כך, מי יושב? So he says that the Rema came and said, היום לא יושבים כך. So he says lav davka. Why? Because the pshat is maybe she sat like this. ואולי, אבל זה גם חידוש. למה? אם היא יודעת בוודאי שהיא לא יושבת ככה, ובדרך כלל נשים שלנו כי יכולים להגיד ברור, במשך היום עובדים, they work. What, you think they had time to sit down ...? They would carry them away. היו לוקחים אותם מהעבודה לבית המשוגעים. מי יושב ככה? Lav dait, and she wouldn't know it. Now, the truth is, I was thinking of a little bit something interesting. You know, today women have an interesting custom. They fold their foot up, and they sit on the chair that way. They sit on the chair like— That's what you want them to say. Yeah, but you don't have to illustrate it. Right, but you're not the maggid. You see, that's the point. Nobody has to understand it from you. ... Okay, now. Okay, he's a tzaddik. You should know, he's growing, he's becoming chashuv. Okay, listen carefully. Okay, so listen good, listen, you hear? But l'maaseh, the Chashulcha wants to say, no, it has to do with any yeshiva. Any time they sit, sit, she could sit and it could fall on her foot any time. So I'm asking, so what did the Taz want? Well, what does he want? What the Taz was a Sefardi, chashuvas bas vila. The Taz was Ashkenazi, you know he was Ashkenazi. U'mistama baTaz, b'yamim shel haTaz, yashvu mistama al kis'ot. Right? You know that, right? The Taz is not derech Yishmaelim. So what does he want? Yeah. I'm just saying.

At those times, past times, they sit normal. Right, so he's saying a chiddush that even if you sat normal, the Chashulchan says even if you sit normal, it's possible for it to fall on the floor. So I'm asking, so I don't understand. So why, what did the Taz—Taz doesn't always talk. Taz didn't know this? The Taz has to go look for something. The Taz has to go look. The Taz has to go look for a case. Orach HaShulchan, you see that the Taz argues with you, so what are you saying his sevara for? What are you doing? You're arguing with Taz. What are you doing exactly? Pili ploy. I have a husband, by the way. The word efshar to me is a very key word again. You know, like every time we'll speak out a halacha or a nekudah or a diyuk, we'll always go back to the word efshar. Remember I told you, go back, bring up the word efshar. Efshar. What does efshar mean? This, what I think, is a very big machlokes between the Taz and the Orach HaShulchan. The Taz possibly doesn't want efshar. The Taz wants muchach u'shchiach. The Orach HaShulchan is happy with efshar. Possible. Probable. It's probable that— you know any woman that sat down and all of a sudden she had a kesem on her toe? I don't know, it's just a story. It's definitely not normal, but it's possible, no? But if she sits k'derech Yisraelim, not only is it just possible, what is it, the refuah? It's probable. You like it? Not so much. Okay, let's go further. We'll talk about that. The next halacha, keitzad, nimtza al ekvo temei'ah, vchein nimtza al kol orech shuka u'parsah mibifnim, vheim hamkomos hanidbakim zeh bazeh b'eis sheta'amod, tidbak regel b'regel v'shok b'shok, vchein nimtza rosh godelah l'ragleha, u'kol shekein aragleha mamash. So every place, hamkomos hanidbakim, that they get attached. I don't know, I'm not sure. And if it's not nidbakim, it can't be. It's not possible that it should go down. I don't know what's not—can happen? No? Could happen. So what's the chiluk between nidbakim and lo nidbakim? So what did you learn, Rafael? What? Aha, so you did learn what I'm saying. You think it's possible? What? Yeah, but I'm just saying, but you obviously were medayek that there's more probable and less probable. Nidbakim is probable, and a nidbakim is possible. Mekomot hanidbakim. Mekomot sheharaglayim nidbakim, no? Thighs, it's nidbakim on the inside. So obviously he learned the same thing I learned. So why did he not agree to the first thing I said? Because he has to argue. Okay, also good. Now, the Torahs HaShlamim was a good peirush, you should know. Where, what? He says that the two parts of the foot... I need back. Right? You didn't learn, you didn't learn the sefer, you didn't learn, you didn't have a chance to learn. Huh? Okay. So it's good. So the next question that we're going to speak is going to be just for you. Do you remember that Beit Yosef asking a question on the Rambam? Remember such a question? What was the question that he had on the Rambam? Yeah, I guess you remember. What was his question on the Rambam? You didn't get there. You didn't get there. You got to the beis without the yud. All right. To the beis of Beis Yosef you got to. Okay, also good. Can I once asked the guy in Bnei Brak, The lechti zuzi miman nafshach, he didn't get there yet. All right, it's not bad. He's still holding at the box, Shnayim. But not even the shnayim, he's holding on the nun of the shnayim. You want to stop for one second? The Beis Yosef has a kasha on the Rambam. The Rambam says, v'chein im nimtza kol orech shuka, parsaiseha, right? But it doesn't say in the Rambam the shiur.

Here, he doesn't say the shiur. Abeisi Yosef. You have it? Yesh litmoa, lama lo hizkira haRambam. היינו מקום גבול סוף מקום חבל מצד זה ומצד זה, שהוא נראה מבפנים ומבחוץ. The Rambam gives an entire description of what's called makom chavak. How does the Shulchan Aruch bring it down? אם נמצא כל אורך שוקו ופרסותיה מבפנים. What about the whole diameter? Yeah? Look how the Rambam brings it. דמקום חבק, קרוי למקום המדובק ממש, וחבק עצמו היינו מקום גבול סוף מקום חבק מצד זה ומצד זה, שהוא נראה מבפנים ומבחוץ. There's a whole—I don't even want to go into it. I don't really care. It's not negeia to me exactly what exactly is chavak and not chavak, and which part of the foot, and inside, outside, left side, right side. Okay. But the Beis Yosef comes and says, v'tamua, v'tamua. It's a question. Why the Tur—I'm sorry. U'mekomokim yesh לתמוה, למה לא הזכירה הרמבם? For Rabbeinu haTur, דחבק עצמו כלפנים. He never talked about chavak, and the chavak is bifnim. Says the Teres HaShlomah, I have a better question for you. Neither did you. Neither did you, Beis Yosef. When you wrote your sefer, you also skipped it. V'hu atzmo shmitei kam Mishulchan Aruch, d'kasav, kloshon haRambam, patur. So it's taka very difficult kasha, no? Yeah? Could you repeat the question for them? Repeat it for them. You saw this? You saw this in advance? You saw this? I'm saying, but you saw the kashas. It's a very difficult kasha, yeah? Question is, after the Mishnah brings down the places, it says, what's called the knee? Gemara says makom chevek, whatever. The Gemara says, what about chevek atzmo? It's knefnim. Chevek, the chevek atzmo, yeah? Explain to chevek, because they don't know what you're talking about. Tell them what chevek is. It's like a muscle. It's like, right, the back of the knee. That's called chevek. So from that point on up and down, everything that's inside is considered pnim. The problem is not the Rambam. The Gemara says exactly where that is, how far out. Even though the Gemara does. Even though there's a whole sugya in the Gemara about it. So if you ask the question, why didn't they explain it, and he gave a teretz what he thinks it should be, how far out, how far in. But the problem is, in Shulchan Aruch he just quotes the Tur. He doesn't explain. It's a pili klal. Valig kasha, you know? You see the way he learned up the Beis Yosef. So you, Beis Yosef, why'd you bring it? So what's taka pshat? What's taka pshat? So chevek is the hamstring on the inside, which means that's the shiur on the inside. How does he bring it? Kol orech shuka. Now what is shok? Isn't shok till the end of the hamstring? This is a very bad picture. This is bad stuff. Okay, yeah. I think they said that from this point on inside is considered to be inside. Right. So I want to know what is kol orech shuka, though. Shok, I think this is the bottom part. Yerech is the... just describing the orech, that's how far down. This section all the way down to the foot. Yerech is the section all the way up. What's parsah? What's mi bifnim? Inside. So what is chevek? What's the neged? I'm saying, what's chevek then? No, I'm saying, what's the shiur of chevek? The way they explain according to Rashi, since the tendon starts over here, so the first tendon inside from that point... I see, but it's not true. I thought it's all the way down. From there down. The question is, until where does it go? You mean this is the chevek, the width, and this is the length.

Okay. Now, let me ask you a question like this. For it to go down, for it to go down, kol orech, does she need to sit? For it to go with a chevek, does she need to sit? Huh? I thought yes. I don't know why. I'm saying that's why I wanted to make sure we're on the same page. How does it curve to the side? Inside, but it's still outside. It's curved. What's the question? How does it curve to the side? Inside, but it's still outside. It's outside. Stand, pokazhi. You said the middle of the knee. That's only until then. Let me ask you a different question. It says in the halacha, do you know what I want? Chevek is the hamstring, so that's wide, okay? A length, hu mevi lecha, kama aroch, it could be from the beginning until... okay? The hamstring is in the back, okay? So actually, it's not... Dripping straight down. It's somehow moving a little bit, dripping down. L'maaseh, the Teres Shloms asking that the Shulchan Aruch doesn't bring it. The Shulchan Aruch doesn't bring it. My question to you is, why doesn't it bring it? Kashya. Does the Rambam talk about her sitting? Let's take a look at the Rambam. I mean, we know al ekvo was the discussion of sitting. Ekev was in the shailah of sitting. I understand. It's slowly. I'm talking about something slow, a little bit slow. I want to know, is the story sitting? In the Shulchan Aruch, l'maaseh, we don't have sitting. There was no story about sitting. Now I want to show you something else. What happens if it's on the other toes? You don't know? You know some machlokes that you did the Shulchan Aruch, you did it? Okay, so let's see the halacha inside, okay? V'habach kasav. Let's do the Shulchan Aruch, come. Kasav Beis Yosef, d'mashma loi, kein. Mileshon, afilu rosh godel, aval b'zeh ein hechrach, d'efshar d'hai lashon afilu koi hagodel atzmo. I want to know, he brings a case. V'chein nimtza rosh goidel l'ragleha, so it's on the thumb. What about the next finger? No, that's not a regel, right? Rak goidel. Mai matzpot acherah, lo yachol lihyot shezeh shamma. U'kol shekein haragla mamash, that's something else. Where is ragla mamash? On the foot, not on the... Aval gav haregel lo, i gara mitzad chutz. Ela she'ein lo kele ma'aseh, ki v'shkacha hu zaken. V'nimtza al sharei etzbao shel regel, you see what it says? Aval zeh nir'eh lo hakel. V'im nimtza al sharei etzbao shel regel chutz min hagodel, the Taz says it's mutar. Tell me, you know the difference between the godel and this? You're talking about an inch, a centimeter. I'm asking, again, let's start again. You know the difference in l'maaseh between a centimeter? It's not shayach, that it fell here and it doesn't fall here. It's a pshat. It's a peldike thing. Okay, I want everybody to look at the top, the Shulchan Aruch.

And then we'll do the Taz again. It says, V'chein nimtza, haroish godel l'raglah. It's not even al godel l'raglah, al roish godel l'raglah. Okay. Says the Taz, that the Raffi read it, Kol shekein al raglah mamash, kach kasav. Which means you have here two things. First of all, roish godel, since mashma afilu roish godel, but gavah regel is for sure. No, because gavah regel would be like what? It's possible it's like chutz, shok min hachutz, and therefore it won't be tamei. V'chein פירש באר היטב ז"ל, דבך. Ela she'ein halochah, l'maaseh, כיוון שכבר הורה זקן בית יוסף. So the only reason why he doesn't want to pasken against the Shver, against the Bach, is only because the Beis Yosef said it. But he holds that it's al gavah regel. Where's the gavah? You know where the gavah regel is? Top of the foot, gav. You're talking about the, not underneath, al gav, like this of the foot, right? What do you mean, it can't fall over there; it can only fall al roish hagodel? It's a strange halachah. You start listening, you say, what are you talking about? And then he says even a bigger chiddush. Here? Yeah, a centimeter over. Now that's it. Al sha'ar אצבעות, it's no good. It's chavanah. אתה, תקרא אתה בתימנית. תגיד לי, זה באיזה נוסח שאתה רוצה. ... אתה, זה נשמע אשכנזי. תגיד לי כמו תימני, ותקרא את זה עם טעמים, עם טעמים, let's go, no? He wants to know what does it mean, afilu. Afilu, afilu, what's the afilu? So mashma afilu, pshat is, v'al gav regel is, is v'afilu al godel. Now, teretz is gava regel tahor. Afilu is, it's whatever, it's not muchach. So al gava regel tahor? רגע, רגע, it's only al godel, on godel shel haetzba. אפשר, that's fine. I never knew that a ketem has, what do they call that, a laser bullseye, what do they call that thing that has the, when you shoot the, the target, a guidance system. I didn't know that. יש לו כזה כמו טיל. דווקא בראש הגודל. If it's anywhere else, no, it can't be the ketem. You learned these halachos? You don't hear my question? Well, let me hear your answer. Okay, I'm gonna talk about it. See, but I'm saying that, so your answer is, I'm gonna get to that. I want to say that, the word efshar. Why are you arguing with me? I'm saying what you're saying, and you're supposed to argue with me. Okay, let's go further. Next. Yeah. Go ahead. You know, could you imagine a guy would say, Hey, you know what someone's gonna say? I'm like, Alis Yerushalayim al rosh simchasi. Yeah, al rosh simchasi. He's gonna sit there measuring the rosh. Al rosh simchasi. One second. Oh, get the cameraman. Let's see if we can get exactly rosh. Lo, ze lo rosh simchasi. Oh, yeah. Nu, my hair. Tali Yerushalayim al rosh simchasi. What's that for? Okay, let's see the Shach.

Hagoydo. I don't understand. What's the katan? Which katan what? Yud zayin. Yud zayin. That's the girsa I have. That's all I know. According to... whatever, this is the way I know the pshat. The pshat is, gaber regel ken, aval k'neged rosho. So it has to come down to gaber regel exactly k'neged the finger. You know how small the rosh of goidel is? But what are you—I'm listening to halachos, I'm thinking to myself, someone lo no mali po, mishu lo no mali po. Im haiti omer halachos ka'eilu, choshev she'ani meshuga. What does it mean? I don't understand what it means, here. Shek'neged hagoydel, מצד חוץ, וכשכן בנמצא שער ראשי ד' אצבעותיו טהור. ואין דבר מוכרחים, גם בדרישה כתב שצריכים בשער ראשי אצבעות רגליים, so shach is cholek. What's the machlokes, the Shach and the Taz? Shach, what are you talking about? Etzba zeh ken v'etzba zeh lo? What are you saying? He's arguing. He's arguing with the Taz. He's saying, what's the difference between this etzba and that etzba? What are you saying? You didn't do the Shach, you didn't do it. You hear? So there's a machlokes, this etzba, that etzba. Okay. Let me show you an interesting Torah, hashlamah, Sif katan tezayin. Habach hesik bazeh. How would you expect a person to live in this world if you didn't give him this? But what would he do? He'd go crazy. He'd be משתגע. ... אח בנמצא שער ראשי אצבעותיו, ... ואפשר שגם הבתי יוסף מודים לזה. ... אין להחמיר בקסמים כל כך. What is he saying? I hold this is a big yesod in this Torah ... I hold this yesod of kesamim. Don't be so chomer. What do you mean, להגיד ספק להקל? I mean, give a different klal. What is this a klal? What does he say? I mean, normally you say ספק דרבנן לקולא. What? He's saying, you're right, you can see there, but ... Yeah. What he's saying in ביאור הגר״א, he's saying is, you're right, it's שייך, and you're right in hilchos sfeikos we should come and say, huh? Not out ספק דרבנן לקולא. אין להחמיר בקסמים כל כך. Don't make it such a big deal. Don't make such a big deal out of kesamim, huh? You see him saying ספק דרבנן לקולא? Saying a little bit more, right? Okay, let me show you something interesting. There's a machlokes, the Rambam and the Rashba. What happens if, let's say it's on her hand, right? It's one of the cases here. חֵן נִמְצָא יָדֶיהָ, אֲפִילוּ קִשְׁרֵי אֶצְבְּעוֹתֶיהָ, שֶׁהַיָּדַיִם עַסְקָנִיּוֹת הֵן, שֶׁמָּא נָגְעוּ בָּהּ בְּאוֹתוֹ מָקוֹם. Maybe she touched. So if she has on her hand, maybe she touched b'oso makom. The Rashba wants that she should go. D'hainu, if she touched, that she washed her hands, she knows for sure she washed her hands, then it's tahor. She knows for sure, shema she touched, but she washed her hands. The Rambam, the Rambam says like the Shulchan Aruch, that even if you don't know, you touched, you didn't touch, and even if you think you washed your hands, according to the Rambam, yeah, but maybe you touched it again. סתם ידיים עסקניות הֵן. What's the machlokes? What are you arguing? Machlokes, ma machlokes? According to the Rambam, shema, right? חֵן נִמְצָא יָדֶיהָ, אֲפִילוּ קִשְׁרֵי אֶצְבְּעוֹתֶיהָ.

Sheyadayim maskanis. Shema, shema nahagu. Rashba? It has to make sense. Stam shema, maybe. I want to show you an interesting halacha. Every time there's a kesem, could you be toleh b'makah? So let's see the Shach. Hein nimtza al yado. Yeah. Mashma lehedya midivrei ha... What is this? So how come it's not good? This is the new Turs. This is the new ones, no? This is the new one. Look how they wrote this. Nebach what they wrote over here. It's Dvar Halacha tes-vav. Wow. Looking... Dvar what? What is this? Okay, yeah. Afilu b'stam, chayshinan shema nagu. Hein daas haRav haMag. Okay. Right, so it's not here, not the Shach. What about over here? Makah. You have it? Aval im yesh makah b'guf sheyachol litlos bah sheefshiyav ha'adam, imenu toleh bah v'tahor. Last part of the halacha. So makah you can be toleh. Says the Taz, the Toir... I'm sorry, the Shach, the Toir gimmel. You hear? Yam mei rishonim shel sfiras zayin nekiyim lo talina. Gimmel yamim rishonim lo talin, afilu b'maka. Even with a maka. Why not? It has to be chazakas taharah. Why? It's a kesem. The kesem is a kesem anyway. You learned this halacha. So could you learn it? That's unbelievable. That's a very big chiddush. You have a chazkas taharah? I know differently. I know that as soon as she makes, as soon as she makes a, she is now b'chezkas taharah, right? What's that first bedikah called? You remember what it's called? A hefsek taharah. So the Gilyonim are saying, mamash chamah, I hear that. Afilu b'maka. Kilkamon siman kuf tzadi gimmel, sif katan yud gimmel. Could you look at Taka, kuf tzadi gimmel, sif gimmel? You want to look over there, please? You want to tell me if the Rema Taka says that over there? What does the Rema Taka say about it? I want to know if that's taka the halacha. Halacha l'maaseh. Yeah? Yeah? Okay. It says if you toleh b'maka, you keep reading. It says, it does say. Sif yud, you have sif yud? Yeah. If you know for sure it's blood, you can be toleh. Yes, he's just mekatzeh him maybe. What is this? First three days, it's a chumra in ketem, so we're not toleh. Even—what happens if it's, you know for sure it's a makah hamotzi dam, then we are toleh. Makah hamotzi dam, we are toleh. The Taz doesn't talk about it over here, huh? How about kuf yud gimmel? You want to look over there? Go ahead.

All of a sudden, Rafi found, he found something that says not like him. So, yeah, it says the Nitazei. So machlokes, the Shach and the Rama. Rama says you are toleh, yeah? So the Shach says we're not toleh. B'makom, yeah, lo talinon. If it's a makom motzi dam, and the Rama says b'makom motzi dam, כן תלינן, megilui yam Rishon, yeah? So what's the machlokes? What are they arguing on? In ma'aseh it's a good sevara. Do you see that it's motzi dam? So why can't you be toleh? Ela mai, because Leah Rafi was mechadesh a big chiddush, which isn't true, that she doesn't have a chazkas taharah for the first three days. So the Rama didn't know this. The Rama was ... and what was the Rama? He didn't know all these halachos. And the teretz is that she has a chazkas taharah anyway, and the Rama knew this. And af al pi kein, okay, but you see that there's a machlokes. So it's interesting. I don't know if it's even here. I didn't find it here. Maybe it's the Be'er Heitev over here. He doesn't bring — I don't see why it's not here. You should know. Maybe that's what the Tereshlam wants, he's sending you over there. I don't know. I didn't find it here, but it's another pashut. I mean, he makes it sound — he's very biased over here. He's making it sound that any makor, we're not toleh. It's not true, according to the Rama we're toleh. On a maka motzi dam u'tahor. So what's the machlokes? What's the hesber of the machlokes? So, Rafi, please say it over again, because they don't realize that there's tremendous sugya over here. There's a tremendous sugya going on over here. Okay, continue. We read over the Shach and then the din of maka motzi dam. Just a few shniim, just a few. Nu. וכן, the last part of the halacha: Aval im yesh makif b'gufa. Aval im yesh makif b'gufa, the mechaber. Says the Shach, nu. Ah, so the Shach's saying not gimel yamim rishonim, like it says further on, but that's not what it says in the Rama further on. In the Rama further on it says that if it's b'gimel yamim rishonim, we are toleh b'maka. If it's maka motzi dam, so what's the machlokes? What's the hesber? No chazkas taharah. It's not true. Hefsek taharah means there's a chazkas taharah. Muchamah maybe. Okay, good. So what's the machlokes? What are they arguing? What happens if a woman ta'ines, Bari li, without doubt, you hear? Bari li, without doubt, I definitely didn't touch b'eis imah. Bari li, I know for sure. Is she ne'eman to come and say— That the dam is not from her. So the Sidrei Taharah says that she's ne'emenes. A woman is ne'emenes to say, I didn't touch. A woman is ne'eman to say she didn't touch. So what's the pshat in the Sidrei Taharah? Pashut, because just like all other inyanim of niddah, yesh lah ne'emones. It's gam b'zeh yesh lah ne'emones. Ah, yadayim askani, you're saying. Ah, yadayim askani, you're saying. How can a person ever say bari li? How? How can you say that? Let's say she just washed her hands and she sees it a second later. You mean bari li, I washed it. That's not the case that it says. If a person knows from the time he got up that he did not touch, all right, that he did not touch any— he doesn't need to tell shedayim. But that's— you're not asking, no? That's my question. If a person washes hands once for bread...

In the morning. And then he goes and he's mamish, she's saying, Bori li, I didn't touch a whole day. Imagine, what's halacha? I do know. I don't think it works. Stam yadayim, askaniyos hein. What is she, a person comes, I know for sure. But that's different, because that he takkeh didn't go anywhere. He was in shul. Huh? Okay, so you know what? Let's look it up. Huh? To what? How long a time does it go by? Huh? I mean, she's talking lo sachti daas. Can we look up the Shulchan Aruch? Look it up. On the case of the halacha, yeah, the case. Aval im nimtza, right, v'shema naga boi makom, v'chein nimtza yodea, afilu al kishei etzba'osav, shehayadayim askaniyos hein. So let's go see the Shulchan Aruch. Go ahead, new posik. You're a posik, look it up. Go ahead, read Shulchan Aruch. I don't remember the seif katan. It's on this halacha. Go ahead. You have it? Oh. Yeah. Oh, see, it does say it. They can't function if you don't tell them seif katan. Where is it? Chav-vav in the middle. Okay, in the middle. N, I N, middle, M-I-D-D-L-E, okay? Otherwise they can't function. Go ahead, yeah. Oh, he speaks it out, and we don't say that this is something, no, that she can't be ramya lei, that she can't know for sure. No, no, but v'lo minda lei ramya lei. I'm saying it's not tumah. This is—dohu milta. It's a type of thing, lei ramya lei, that can't be omed on. We don't—don't translate the words. Dohu milta. This is—we don't say that this is—we don't say these are one of the things that you can't say, I know for sure. Okay? She could. She could say. So either he means, because she could know, right, or maybe he's saying, we don't care. As long as she says bareli, it's good enough. Does a sidur ta'irah mean because it's shayach to know, or does a sidur ta'irah mean we don't say these are one of the things that it's impossible to know, even though it probably isn't possible? I know you're not sure. That's why I'm speaking it out. I know you're not sure that that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know. I had to say not sure. I don't know what he means. Does he mean—it's exactly my question—does he mean because she could be sure, and then it becomes like eid echad b'issurim for everything that's nogea to nidah, or he means to say is it doesn't really make a difference. As long as she says bareli, it's good enough. Ay, there's a safek. You know for sure? Does it mean? Maybe it's like Rav Miller. How does a whole day you think a woman pays attention all day? All day long a person could say, I don't know. You know, people have nervous twitches. You know, it's another thing also. She goes to the bathroom, yeah? What are you gonna come and say? She knows for sure? A whole day, from morning to night, I know for sure. So either pshat, yeah, maybe, dachol yatzi, she can't have that. Or pshat too, afilu, it's good enough. Shetaines bari li, it's good enough. What's it based on? Efshar, the word efshar. I'm not holding yet. I'm just telling you the yesod. You want to know, you want me to explain? I will soon, in a few minutes. It's based on the word efshar. Okay, let me show you a few more points, and then we'll go back and you'll see. You want me to say it now?

Ah, there is a possibility. There's a possibility. What I'm trying to say is, yeah. Listen to me what I want to tighten. Listen, kid. In order, in order to come and say that a ketem is tamei, do you need possible that it's from her, or you need probable? What happens if it's possible without probable? Possible? Is it a sfeikas d'halacha that whenever you have a safek, we'll say that it's a problem? Or it's probability, which means it's not enough just to have a safek. When she ta'ines bari li, right, without the bari li, you know what you have? V'chein nimtza yada, afilu hakishu, shehadayin maskanis hein. So the probability is that she touched. The minute she ta'ines bari li, it goes from a probability to what? It's possible. Possible. It's not enough to say she's tamei. She can't say bari li. She could come and say, 'But what, she crazy?' How could you believe? No, I know for sure. Huh? Let me tell you something. When a woman has a ketem, she could come and say that from the morning since she woke up, she knows for sure. How could she know for sure? How does anyone? My friend, askanius hei means not only white, it's everything. It's touching, it's... How could you know for sure? Sometimes you pass through a place and you paint on yourself, even though you don't know where it's from. Askanius hei, you know for sure. I don't know. Maybe, maybe there is such a thing that she, you know, in the olden days they would frum a woman, but today they work. What, you think a woman knows the difference? Could a woman come and say, I want you to know something. I want you to know something, that a lot of times the women talk and say, Oh, I know for sure this and I know for sure that. It's not true. They don't know for sure anything. It's just not true. It's all hasharos later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know. The husband says, Was it like, was it this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know for sure, 100 percent, I know for sure. They don't know for sure nothing. It's not true. Do you know there's a halacha by bedikas chametz? Not that you hear, maybe, maybe, maybe he says it over there. Does he say this? About this point, if it's shayach bari li. Oh, so find it for me, find it for me. This is what I'm getting at. You see, I'm saying good. Bedikas chametz. Bedikas chametz is not given over to a woman because they're not... oimed b'dikduk. Dikduk. It's very hard for them. Factual things are very hard. When you start asking a woman a discussion, did you or didn't you, you know you'll get b'erech, and then you'll know that you're going to get a straight answer. You know that, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. They go into details. So you should be... okay. Yeah. So you should be prepared to pasken she'eilos that they don't know what they're talking... Be prepared to listen, to shema, and you'll see that whatever you tell them, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Try it. You know what? Try it at home. I'm telling you, I'm giving you a... Is it baduk u'menuseh? I mean, unless it's... certain women are not like that, but b'rov am is like... Are you masking? Is it true? You know that it's true, right? The minute you start telling, but maybe it was like this, yeah. But maybe it was like that, yeah. Whatever you tell maybe it was, that's what it is. So the she'eilah becomes askanus. Askanus is a factual thing, right? But the... okay, so read it, read it, read it. There's a machlokes; you can say bari li. Go ahead, no? Says, יש חולקים... ויש חוששים... That's something else. That's the... yeah.

What? What was the story there? What's the machloikes? What is what machloikes is he bringing? No, no, but what's the story? No. That's the story? That the machloikes is bari li? Could you read it again? I don't hear it. Read it. I want to know. Tell me. I didn't hear that case. ... Bari li, נאמנת, וחד טוען ברי לי אינו נאמנת. I didn't hear that. That's not what I heard you read. That's ... makom. That's something else. That's something else. Other places. That's something else. See, now you didn't bring me the story. I knew that this is something else. That's a Taz. That she can always come from somewhere else is a Taz. Okay. What would happen ... אישה אומרת ברי לי, ברי לי, מה זה נאמנת? היא לא נאמנת. אבל מאחר שהיא טוענת ברי לי, ברי לי, אז להגיד שזה ודאי בגלל שהיא עדיין ... להגיד ודאי אין. אבל זה עדיין ספק, זה עדיין ספק. ובכל זאת, ובכל זאת, מכלים, because safek kesem, not in hilchos ksamim, has to be efshar, not efshar. The opposite. What I'm saying is a different word. Efshar could be that it has to be probable. A kesem tameiah, as long as it's possible, then already it's tahor. Possible is not enough. You need probable. Okay, now let's discuss this. What happens, beged, some machlukufa, underwear, it's not there, and all of a sudden it's on her clothing. So what's the halacha? How did it happen? So there's an interesting halacha in the Pischei Teshuva, seif katan chavah, b'shem haSidrei Taharah. Go ahead, read it. Oh, she wore three. Can you imagine? Ishah lavshah three. Go ahead. Okay, so בקיצור, after Krias HaTorah, okay, Baruchu es Hashem hamvorach... You want to tell me what you just read? Get up and say it. Get up and say it. Get up and say what you just read. Then the Siddur Torah says that any time you have a beged elyon that the blood would not go there without going to the tachton, you don't see blood on the tachton, then you cannot... Where did it go? Then he brings v'yesh cholkim. What's the cholkim? Kipul. No, but he says about kipul. What does he say about kipul? That in case it was able to fold. The original one was able to fold. Okay. Now there's a big shaila today because the underwear, it's like very not common. Again, the truth is I thought about it. It's so muchach, not shayach to move over, it's shayach to move over. You don't know.

I don't know, why not? I don't know, but shayach to move over. Huh? If it's very tight, yeah, but if it's not very tight, I don't know. Not shayach for a dress to get stuck. You have to ask this to the ladies. I poshut don't know, but yeah, I don't know. It's a good shayla, yeah. They'll be so happy if they know we think about them all day, learning this. Yeah. Mata chush? Mata chush. Lama, mama? ... Yesh halachah, yesh shlosha begadim, yeah? אז התחתון לא מלוכלך, והעליון מלוכלך. הסימן שזה לא ממנה, אז למה התחתון לא מלוכלך? שלושה תחתונים, שלושה בגדים, חד על השני. She's wearing the tachtonim, and then she's wearing, from what you call it, tights, because tights, right, whatever they wear, tights, and then what you call it, then a skirt. So, ... אז כתוב בסירי טהרה, okay? כתוב בסירי טהרה. אז מאחר שהתחתון נקי, אז מוכח שהעליון לא מתממין. אבל אם שייך לקפל, אז היום יש לזה ספק של היום, שלושה בגדים, אחד צמוד, מה הסוגיה? Okay. מה הכוונה? האם שייך שיתקפל? What does he say over there? I know, but what's the... yeah, but what's the lashon that he uses? What does he use? איזה לשון הוא משתמש? בכיפול, איך, איזה לשון הוא... Again, what? What? No, when he brings the case. ובהני איכא למימר שנתקפלו. ובהני איכא למימר. אי אפשר, okay? You can't say. You could say. You can't say, you could say. What about שכיח ולא שכיח? I mean, is it common? Is it normal? What's the story? מעשה פה פה. שכיח? שכיח ולא שכיח. He didn't speak about שכיח ולא שכיח. השאלה היא כך: אם שכיח שיתקפל, ואחר כך העליון כן להתלכלך ולא התחתון. לא, העליון מלוכלך, התחתון לא מלוכלך. אז אם אי אפשר להגיד שזה התקפל וממילא העליון, right? אז טהורה. אם שכיח, אז אומרים מיילת טמאה. אמר לי, שואל: שכיח או לא שכיח? שכיח, הרבה דברים שכיח. It's possible, it's not common. לא שכיח בפשיטות. אנחנו לא מדברים על היום, מדברים על ציור של הסוגיא. שמה הוא כותב אם שכיח או לא שכיח. ולא כתב שכיח ולא שכיח. אז אני מסתפק. צריך להיות שזה היגיוני, או שצריך להיות שזה שכיח. כי לשון של הסדרי טהרה משמע ששכיח, אבל אם זה לא שכיח בכלל, אי אפשר. אז אומרים שיטה. אז אם זה לא אי אפשר, זה אפשר, אבל זה לא שכיח. מהי ההלכה? What's gonna be the halacha in such a case? מה אתה חושב? What do you think? You don't know. So I'm asking good, right? Now you know what I'm talking about? אני מסתפק בחומר יסוד אחד. In order to be metaltel, does it have to be that it makes sense? זה הגיוני ככה, או שזה שכיח? ככה דבר כזה. עכשיו ככה: לא בכל מקום שימצא שם כתם טמא, אלא במקום שאפשר. אז הלשון אפשר משמע לא שזה שכיח, שזה שייך לבוא לשם. לא צריך הגיוני; שכיח. אפשר במציאות. אז מה אם זה דבר רחוק אבל שכיח?

It would be temeiah. It's hefsed. Keitzad, nimtza aleha kvar, okay? So עכשיו שאלנו, רגע, יש מיילדת יושבת ככה, ואומרה על השולחן שייך שיהיה ישבה ככה. It's hefsed. We're saying it's a gevaldige vort. The Aruch HaShulchan was learning the whole sugya as long as it's possible. Even if she doesn't know, but it's possible, meileh it's tameiah. וכן נמצא על כל עורך שוקה, ופרסה, הא מבפנים, עכשיו ככה. So שאלנו, שאלנו, למה לא מדבר על הסיפוש של חבק? חבק. You know what the chiddush of chabak is? The chiddush of chabak is only if you say that we have to be choshesh that she sat down. זה מה שנראה לעניות דעתי. To go straight, so it drips down. In order for it to go on the sides, so you need one of two things. You need that she either sat down, or you need that the, how do I say it, that the nidbakim, nidbakim yachad, so it moved, and then it could go to the sides also. Which is more common, yoshva or nidbak? Which is a bigger chiddush? Let's see the lashon. You’re talking about that she’s sitting, right? What’s the story? How does it start? היא יושבת. It’s talking about that she’s yosheves. Tell me, ha’im ra’ita את הנקודה הזו בעצמך? Did you see this by yourself? Does tamud mean amidah? Does tamud mean amidah? Or does tamud mean miyeshivah, amidah? Tamud means to stand, or pshat is tamud that she was sitting and then tamud she was standing. Which halacha is it? Be’ez, זה כל הפואנטה. Be’ez זה when she… but she’s not… Be’ez shetamud is in dikduk, is when she was sitting and then she stood up. When you want to say standing, it’s keshihi omedes. Yeah, you know, but when you want to say... I'm asking you a question. It's mutbak, right? So therefore this is what. ... mutbak, and meila, wherever it is, it could be shayach that it should go there also. So I'm asking you a kasha: was she sitting first? Yes. I don't think they can't see that because she was mutbak, that's why you found it there. Oh yeah? I think so. Maybe I'm reading wrong. Yeah, you probably are reading wrong. V'chein im nis'al kol ha'ir k'shuka... Why? But why? What is this? V'chein... So I'm not learning that way. I'm learning not like you. I'm learning that the pshat is because it's mekomos hamudbakim, so therefore even if it's normally supposed to go straight down, since it's mekomos hamudbakim, so therefore it goes to the sides. Therefore it reaches there. The reason—this is not the shiur, but this is the reason. Ma nachka she'eilah. This is the reason, or this is the shiur? Shiur means only if it's a type of... Only that. That's how they're learning.

Well, that's the reason already. From the lashon. According to her, she says, bari li that I didn't stand like that the whole day. Maybe. Maybe. That's why I want to tagna. Maybe. Let's say she says, bari li I didn't do that. That's what I want to get. That's exactly what I'm getting. That's why I asked. That's why I spoke about bari. I asked you that question. What happens if she knows? Well, what happens? There's a woman that whenever she stands, it's that way. She's so big that it's always that way. What happens if she wasn't sitting, she was standing? These are all shailas that I hold you have to be patient. Is it a shiur possible, or it's a shiur in... not efshar? Probable. What happened? Are these shiurim impossible, or are these shiurim improbable? Do you need to work out shiur, matzav, this is what happened? Or this is the shiur because it's common, it could happen. But you don't need mamash kedei sheta'amod, that when she stood up. And what happens if she didn't stand up? And what happens if she didn't stand up? How can we not writing this down? Hmm? Hello? You don't understand what? Don't you understand? I'm asking you. I'm trying to ask you. You're right. You're right. You're right. That's also a horror. I want to know, what do you need a hundred cases for? You need a hundred cases of what's efshar. You need a hundred cases of what's efsher. Whatever's efsher. Use your seichel. If it's efsher, it's efsher. If it's not efsher, it's not efsher. Whether shiurim, whether dinim, regel zu, yeah, and not etzbazu. That's halachah. What would be the case where the isha is meshuteket? What happens if this personal woman is paralyzed? She's paralyzed. She can't touch baisim. She can't walk. She can't dance. She can't sit down. I don't know. Whatever all these cases are, what would be in such a case? It's not efsher. Yeah, but maybe it's the shiurim that they gave. Sounds like it's probable, just lo machmirin b'kulei hai on certain things. Is that possible? Yeah, probable, but even in the probable, you have a geder of lo machmirin b'kulei hai. Yeah, that's not pashut. Even the case is, he's giving you probabilities, and everything else is not probable, it's possible. Or it's shiurim, that that's a Chazal kovea, alei kvar finished. That's what it is. Do you need that she should be sitting l'maaseh? Who cares if she's sitting l'maaseh? Who cares? Who cares if she's sitting like Yishmael? Ekvah, that's it. That's the halachah, because it's possible, alei kvar. Or you need that it should be probable. Tzrichim sheyeh b'emet seforos shehaya kach. All the pshat is, be'etzem, Chazal אמרו, alei kvar sheshayach ekvah. Shayach ekvah, it's possible. So maybe that's the machlokes, the Taz and the Aruch HaShulchan. That's exactly what I just said. That's exactly what I'm telling you. The Taz is saying is you need a tzius. What happened? How did you get to eikvah? This particular woman sat like that. The Taz is saying, the Darchei Shulchan is saying, l'maaseh it's possible such a thing, so all eikvah is asur. You don't have to ask her, did you sit like that? Who cares what you did? Oh, Reb Nissan Karelitz ... chutz sheini. Shuteke? No, lo yechalah, lo yechalah. ... כל ההלכות האלו לא נגעה. ... היא בגלגל, how do you call it in the... You say galgalim? V'raglayim שלה למעלה, מעכשיו. ... כל ההלכות האלו לא נגעה. Chutz sheini. Also we're clarifying, she has on her ketifah, and she does gymnastics, and she's able to do... That's one of the cases that they say. No, he says if it's on ketifah, it's not. No, but it's one of the cases. If she had gymnastics, it's one of the cases. If she does flips or not. If she does flips, if she has raglayim מעל כספה. So again, savaita, it's possible.

No, no, no. It's talking about in a case where it's possible. He's not talking about where it's al kafas. The shaila is, ah, so m'meila, what's your shaila with chovek? Ma she'ein la b'chovek, right? You don't need the shaila of chovek. What is the Shulchan Aruch bringing? The Shulchan Aruch is bringing one case. V'heim ha'mekomos ha'nidbakim. So even if b'etzem possible, she didn't sit down. So which is more shechiach? This is a bigger chiddush. If she sits down and it moves, avad it's pashut. But here we're saying even a bigger chiddush, that since with the feet out together, it could also move. So it's a bigger chiddush. We don't need the case of chovek. We don't need the case. Avad if you sit, the Rambam is talking shiurim, let's say. Later, Beis Yosef says to bring me the shiurim. If you tell me chidush b'nefesh, so chovek is a bigger chiddush. I'm saying the story of mudbak is a bigger chiddush. Chovek is a chiddush in nefesh, not in nefesh, in shiur. That's a din in shiur. You know what the shiur is? The shiur is chovek. This is a chiddush in nefesh. He's telling you chidushim of nefesh. Avad, it's efshar by chovek. You need a chiddush, efshar she sits down and trying for it to move a little bit. Let's go vayter. The etzba'os. So vayter, the etzba'os is the same halacha, right? It's possible. It's possible that what? That it's on all the etzba'os. It's possible. You can't say, al gabei regel, it's possible. That's the shiurim that they gave, based on the problem. If it's going to fall, where would it fall? Efshar. Only when it... Again, if it's gonna fall, where is it gonna fall? Again, if it's gonna fall, where is it gonna fall? That's called probable. Probable, then there's halachos. So anything else which is not that, it's not called efshar. What's not efshar? It's lo efshar sheyehei batzvoys acheiros. Avad it's efshar. It's efshar. Since you need probable, and the taiches, so it didn't fall on the probable. It didn't fall on the probable. ... The shiurim are shiurim for probable. So when if it would fall, it would fall on the etzba gadol, the fact that it didn't fall on the etzba gadol, it's eino chanami, it's takke. But the shiurim that the Chazal gave. I'm telling you that the Shulchan Aruch is talking about efshar. What do you mean efshar? Efshar means like this: efshar, probable, mimeila then it becomes a shiur. Once it's efshar, which means it's probable, I don't care about your story. Your story is not nogea. Ha-sipur shelcha lo nogea li. Yesh shiurim, lachen yesh halachos. ... תגיד פשוט שישאל ... אם זה הגיוני, אני צריך הגיוני. That's what I want with makka also. With makka I want to tie in a modeh b'knas. I asked you a kashya by makka. Plia b'maka. If it's motzi dam, if it's a maka motzi dam, so the probability, the probability is from where? From the maka. The probability. If it's b'shloshah yamim rishonim, if it's b'shloshah yamim rishonim, so there's also probability that it's not from the maka, because she's still called the first three days, my yonek. The first three days is called, you're right, tahorah, b'chezkas tahorah. Tahor the shailas, but she doesn't have the chazkas nekiyah yet. We're gonna get to that. It's not a word. Not a word. Tell me something, are we more machmir with the first three days? Why? Why are there such chumras? Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't know there was only sefardim.

For Ashkenazim, okay? What are the three days? I do know. So it's impossible. Makes sense. No, no, no. No. Okay, I'm obviously not going to be able to finish this nekudah because it's a long shmues. Either way, if it's a maka motzi dam, the Rama is saying a modeh b'kvar, so it's zicher, efshar that it's coming from the makah. That's enough. While the Rama is saying—while the Shach is saying, efshar is not enough. You need probable. The first three days you still don't have that. Okay, we'll stop. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah, do.