Hilchos Kesamim: Stains Above or Below the Chagor, Teliyah, and Shuk Shel Tabachim

Transcript

Okay. Halacha Yud-Beis. Nimtza haketem al chaluka, matah mehachagor, oi b'makom hachagor atzmo, temeiah. Afilu nimtza l'tzad chutz. Then he says, v'im avra b'shuk shel tabachim, tehorah. Afilu nimtza l'tzad pnim v'hamsorah, v'im nimtza al chaluka bilvad mehachagor ulema'alah, tehorah. Afilu nisdak v'givul raglah. So this, be'emes, is a Gemara, and you did the Beis Yosef, so you know there's a Lishna Kama and a Lishna Basra, and there's a whole question how to learn the Lishna Kama and how to learn the Lishna Basra. So shaylah: how to learn the Lishna Kama and how to learn the Lishna Basra. So be'emes, there's a machlokes Rishonim: the Rashba, the Rambam, the Raavad, on how to learn the cases of the Gemara, machlokes. So let's take a look, halacha l'maaseh, without going into learning up in the Gemara. Bli likanes eich להסביר את הלשנא קמא, v'eich להסביר את הלשנא בתרא, נדבר על המסקנה, שלוש שיטות. There's three shitos. The Rambam's shitah is, avra b'shuk, you're always tahor, which means— She went b'shuk shel tabachim, so we know where the dam could be coming from. There's a strong tliya where the dam could be coming from. So l'maalo, if it would be on top and it's b'derech, or l'mata v'lo nisdarka, b'chol zois, in all cases, it's tahor. But he's mechalek between chalukah and b'sarah. B'chalukah, yes; b'bsarah, not. Right? So it doesn't make a difference, l'maalo, l'mata. The only difference is chalukah, b'sarah. If she didn't go b'shuk shel tabachim, so she's tamei always. Even chalukah, even chalukah would be tamei. You all know that that's the shitas haRambam: muskar lecha, mukar u'muskar, yeah? So again, the shitas haRambam is there's a tliya, but the tliya only works b'chalukah v'loi b'bsarah. No tliya, so even b'chalukah doesn't work. The Raavad argues on the Rambam, and he says that even if it's b'bsarah, even if it's b'bsarah, we can make tliya. If it's avra b'shuk. The Rashba, the Rashba says, al chalukah, l'maalah mehachagor, it's tahor. Afilu lo yaf. Even if she didn't go. On top is tahor. On the bottom is tamei, from the cloth. Okay, so again, the Rambam says top and bottom is only tahor if there's a tliya, that it's avra b'shuk. The only difference is, chalukim b'sara. The Raivid learns even b'sara, yesh tliya talui. According to the Rashba, l'maalah even בלי תליה. We come and we say that it's what? That it's a ketem tahorah; it's not tamei. Doesn't discuss b'sara. The chiddush is that even without a tliya, b'chalukah l'maalah is tahor. Now, l'choira, Rambam learns differently, Raivid learns differently. If you don't have a tliya, according to the Rambam and Raivid, so there's no tliya. According to the Rashba, you could work even without a tliya, as long as l'maalah, then it's tahor. Shulchan Aruch paskens like the Rashba. This is the shita of the Rashba here.

נמצא כסם על חלוקו למטה מהחגור, או במקום החגור עצמו, טמא. But if it's on top, it would be טהורה. Now, ואם אמרו בשוק של טבחים טהורה, אפילו נמצא על צפניו, על בשרו. But he's meikil without a kliah when it's on top of the, of the, of מהחגור. Okay. So what's the machlokes? So חוץ ממה שחולקים בפשטא דגמרא, the Seder Taharah is masbir that they have a yesodisdik machlokes. They're arguing בדבר יסודי. What are they arguing in? The Raivid learns that מספק לא גזרו. That whenever you have a safek where it's from, automatically לא גזרו. You have to be ודאי that it's בא מגופו. The minute there's a makom להסתפק אם בא מגופו, לא בא מגופו, על ספק לא גזרו. What about הוכחה? You don't need הוכחה. You don't need a raya. Therefore, למעלה, even without a kliah, since it's a good makom להסתפק, therefore it's going to be טהורה. Rashba, what is it? What? With a kliah or without a kliah? He said the only one without a kliah is... One second. Maybe not. Maybe the raivid takah holds that it's mutar completely. How'd you learn the raivid? Let me hear. How'd you guys learn the raivid? The raivid could be holds that it's always mutar, even al basar it's mutar. You know, look up the Siddur HaTair. Let's look it up. Look it up. S'taklu b'Siddur HaTair. What does the raivid... yeah? Im avro. Yeah, and the Rashba? Im v'daut. It could be I got just mixed up in the Siddur HaTair. Nachon. The Siddur HaTair words: that one shita learns al safek lo gazru, and therefore you don't need a kliah. And the other shita learns you need a kliah because you have to be mechiach. You have to have a pshat that it's not coming from the isha. You have the Siddur HaTair? You have it? All right, so take out the yesod. Yeah? Don't say safek. Safek d'rabbanan. Mostrinci. Otah. Yes, safek me'afo zeh ba. Therefore, yoinis, k'sheyeish safek, do you need a kliah? What do you need a kliah for? The minute you have a safek, kol yotzei zeh mutar. Azeh shetoches sovrim shelo tzrichim lechapes. The other shita learns, you have to be mechiach. You have to have a raya she'eina ba migufo, okay? Mai savar? What are they arguing? What are you taining? Nachamal. Nu, rabosai, nu. What are you taining? You have it? You have it, Rafi? No. You have it? Yeah, you have it, Raffi? No. You have it? To read it. Yeah, that's a kasha. He doesn't mean the raya, but that's a kasha, yeah.

Right, continue. But that's the sugya. Where's the svara? He has a svara here. Oh, continue. Why? This is all the sugya, besides the sugya. Besides the sugya, this entire thing is a svara. The svara is, where you need a tliya is the pshat because you have to be machiach, machiach that it's not coming from the isha. If you hold you don't need a tliya, not צריךין תליה. עצם זה שיש מקום להסתפק, אז זה כבר בסדר. למעלה מהגוף, למעלה מהחגור, right? You don't have dochacha. You don't have the raya to come and say it's over b'shuk, but do you know it's מגוף האישה? חלוקה למעלה מן החגור. You don't know, right? So since it's a safek, so therefore it's good enough according to the Rashba. Mashenkein, if you learn that you need a tliya means you have to have hochacha. It's not just enough to have a safek. So the pshat is you have to be machiach. You have to say, oh, there's a pshat that it's not מגוף האישה. So this is how he explains the machlokes, which is true. But the question is, במה מונח יסוד המחלוקת? L'choira, there's a halacha of safek d'rabbanan l'kula. We're gonna soon learn this. We're gonna learn this in seif tes-vav. Shtei nashim shekitsu roshim b'chaluk echad, shteihen temeios. V'im achas kitzav acheres lo kitza, af al pi sheshteihen lavsha chaluk, v'nimtza kesem l'maalah me'achas, safek d'rabbanan l'kula. There's a big sugya here. The pashtus, the halacha is safek d'rabbanan l'kula. So if safek d'rabbanan l'kula, so why do you need a klia for? Every safek d'rabbanan needs a klia? No. So how can this be different? Only d'rabbanans you should need a klia, right? The what? Mutar, right? He's asking. No, what do you mean? Why should you not know where it came from? But if you know that it's coming, if it's b'me'osem makom, it's l'maateh min hachagar, you need to guarantee. He's saying that gufa should be enough to matir. I think the machlokes is: is the klia the safek of the Rabbanan or not? I mean, the klia is the safek. What do you mean the klia is the safek? What does that mean? When she goes to the shuk, so that's all safek. It's safek from her body. No, every time you have a keter, it's l'maalah min hachagar. Meicha teisa where it's from? So say safek d'rabbanan l'kula. Why should you have to come onto a chagar that's lo ba mi'gufa? The shaila is a simple shaila. Why matzrichim tliya, even בלי תליה? ... תליה. Why matzrichim tliya? I need to have a cheshbon where it comes from to be matir a safek. As long as I don't know, it's good enough. I would say first let's start with the over. Lematah we can come and say it's vadai. You know where it's from, so what do you want? I mean, you see where it's from. It's from the isha. When it's lematah, lemaalah, so you have a safek. So what do you have to come on to? Which is how he's learning the din. He's learning that the two צדדים are: either the pshat is any safek d'rabbanan is לקולא, or the pshat is that as long as you don't have a תליה where it's from, ... So I'm asking, why do you need a תליה for? Safek d'rabbanan, that's all. What do you need a תליה for? Okay. I want to say pshat in this sugya, yeah.

Take a look at the pizchei teshuvah. We did it last time, but I want to do it again. Sif katan mem-vav. תסתכלו בפתחי תשובה. Yeah. Sif katan mem-vav. Yeah. יש גילוי בגד, no? ... What did I tell you then? We did it, no? Mem-vav. But what did we do to gimel begadim? Huh? So why did I write mem? I don't know. I'm tired. I'm falling asleep. Chav-vav. Try chav-vav. Tetzayin it was, tet-zayin. Let's do tet-zayin. Gimel begadim. No, read. Gimel begadim, we did it. Huh? Chav-vav, shloshe chiluk. Chav-vav, I'm sorry, chav-vav. Yeah, no? What's the story? You have here three begadim. The top one has a ketam, and the bottom ones don't have. So he says, how are you going to be tovel it? What are you going to come and say? That's from the isha, right? Unless it's shayach sheyitkapel. In our clothing, that it's not shayach litkapel, it's not l'maaseh. So therefore, we don't say that it came migufa isha, right? We don't say it came migufa isha. Tell me it's not shayach litkapel, huh? It's very far. Not shayach. Reb Elyashiv paskens that because today, type of clothing, it's shayach that it moved a little bit. I guess it has to do with the style of clothing, but we'll take on that in Eretz Yisrael the clothing could move. Because I remember last year, דנו על זה. אני לא רוצה להיכנס בזה. בבקשה תמחולו לי אם אני אקח את זה כחוק ולא יעבור. It could move a little bit, okay? Says Reb Elyashiv, and hachanami, so then you could come and say it's migufa isha, and we can't come and say, ah. It's not on the top, so maybe it's only on the elyon; it's a siman that it's not mea isha. So I'm asking you a question: Shayach litkapel? Shayach? It's all about, it's possible. What is the probability of it? What's his lashon? What's his lashon when he says by kippur? What? What? It's possible to say it, yeah. But what? What does it say? I don't know. Says, מה שאמרתי... אני לא יודע. ... נגיד שזה מציאות, נו. Yeah. So what was the case? The case was it's shayach litkapel, and our—whatever he says, which we're not toleh from her—is what case?

Ik lemeimar sheniskaplu, right? אבל במלבושים גמורים, ובפרט מלבושים שלנו, what do he mean, מלבושים גמורים? Gmurim, which means strong, not ... it's real clothing. ובפרט מלבושים שלנו, דאינו מיראי, דאינו מיראי. Yeah, yeah, yeah. דאינו חוששת ... דלאי קא למימר במלבושים כאלו שנתקפלו. Oh, דלא קא למימר, because he can't say, דלא קא למימר. Why can't you say it? Because obviously it's vadai, no? Oh, as long as there's a safek there could be that came from that place. Oh, as long as there's a safek, then we can come and say that it's a ketem. That's what it's mashma, right? You need leka lemeimar, there's no reason to say it. You can't say it. Does it mean that it's mistaberes from her? Is there any chiyuv that it has to be mistaberes that's from her? All you need is to come and say it's shayach that it came from her. Okay, let me ask you a different question. Tell me, is it negea today, over b'shuk shel tabachim? Do we have it today? No? I'm saying, nagea. A woman walks in from the store, could she come and say it happens to be from the tabach? So this halacha is not negea. It's not negea, what would you ta'ina? Huh? Over here it's תמיד תפיס like that. In Israel there's more like that. College point. Where they do shechita, right? College point. I'm asking, halacha l'maaseh, halacha l'maaseh. If a woman went in, chashashim metzius, halacha l'maaseh, what would you pasken? So give me—you say, what does it say over there? Yes, neged b'zman hazeh, it's not neged b'zman hazeh. Does it have to make sense? What? What happens if the mi'ut is not the majority? Because it wouldn't have blood. It would be tamei anyway; it's not bat Yosef. Okay, go ahead, let me hear. Nu. So what does he say, nu? No, he says it has to be dafka shuk shel tabachim. I'm saying, let's say if there would be—if there would be shechitah, and she got blood, that's what I want. Who—what does he quote it from? Mari Bruna. See, I know what I'm talking about. I want to know, avro b'shuk shel tabachim. That's the only case? Avra b'shuk shel tabachim. What happens if she's sitting in the kitchen, she's working with chicken? Oh, she's a nurse. Normal metzius. That's a chutz la'shuk, shuk shel tabachim is a metzius. What would you ta'ina? Okay, okay, okay, shush, shush, shush, calm down, calm down, calm down. Let's try to be shiur. Shiur means I ask the question, I let you play around a little bit. So I want you to think, I want you to think. Avra b'shuk shel tabachim. So what are you telling me? It's all cases? Any case that she comes in contact with blood? A nurse? A chef? Okay, so what would you ta'ina? So what does he ta'ina about a nurse? He doesn't bring all these cases. He says like this. He brings from Sheilot Uteshuvot Mahari Bruna. Mahari Bruna, yeah. ... ליד עוף שחוט, בספק אם נגע בו, אין התולעה, אפילו העוף מלא דם, ואין זה עסק בכתמים. Why not? So he says, ורק בשוק של טבחים תולה, שאדם ניטז תדיר. Nitaz, nitaz tadir.

אז ובפרט בשוק של טבחים, אינו סתם קצר, אלא הרבה שוחטים שנזרק דם לכל הצדדים. אבל בנגע, טהורה, דהיינו מתעסקת. זה מה שרציתי להגיד. עובר בשוק של טבחים, אי אפשר שלא תצא דם. You ever walk into a, what you call, בית שחיטה? שלחטויס. They make you wear special clothing. You know why? Because it's impossible not to walk out with blood. So עובר בשוק של טבחים is שייך, whereas עובר בשוק של טבחים, we know the story. That's where the dam came from. Is שייך good enough? Maybe not. Maybe not. Now let's go learn the case of the Sidrei Taharah. You can't say, you can't say, you can't say קיפלא, it's not possible. Maybe that's what he means. But the minute there becomes a safek possible, a דילמא the pshat is, of course it's possible, but that's not what happens. It's not guaranteed to be that way. The derech is not that way. So what would be, what would be, בזמן הזה? Okay, the clothing can move a little bit, but tell me, does that happen? Is that common for it to happen? I argue, רבי יהושע, מתמיא לה, פשוט מתמיא לה. U'lamaded ha-sugya. It's all metzius. It could be, can't be. People told him, Shh, you didn't hear what I said. Because of what you said, I see there's one word that I... It's not what people told him. I'm asking you a question. L'maaseh, every time a woman wears underwear, her outer clothing gets dirty. You know such stories, one and a who knows what. I'm saying the fact of clothes move. How does he know the metzius? I'm not talking about that. He learned that the sugya is, as long as it's possible for it to move, that's these sugyas. All the tliyos are, it could have been, possible, could have happened. And the minute you have a safek, so let it be enough, right? Let it be enough to come and say, let it be enough to come and say, yeah, that could be misafek, could be not, so it's tahorah. But it's possible we can come and say it's not enough just misafek. Misafek is still tamei. You need a good explanation to why, to come and say that it's not from her. Again, let me say this one more. You know, when you learn this sefer, you know what it's about? You can learn pashut. He's giving you, yeah, makes sense, it doesn't make sense, could make sense, right? So what, you know? Again, what do you need all these cases for? Tzadik, tzadik, you have to go there. I can't say shiur when you're learning here, okay? Yeah? You understand? Either we can learn the seifim that the seifim are about, dvarim sheshayach. ... lo shayach. He's saying a mechudash. It could be avra b'shuk shel tabachim is not shayach. Avra b'shuk shel tabachim is a chiddush, that since it's karov levadai, so the karov levadai is mechayev me to come and say that even though safek d'rabbanan l'kula, even though be'etzem safek d'rabbanan is l'kula, right, we're not going to say safek d'rabbanan l'kula. We're not going to do that. Avra b'shuk shel tabachim is going to tell me, don't say that it's lehakel. It's not a question of sfeikos. It's a question of teliyah. It's not a question of sfeikos; it's a question of teliyah, which means we're not giving could it or couldn't have been. What it is is that a kesem is takah tamei, till you have a cheshbon to come and say...

And we spoke about this. Remember I told you this yesod? A ketem is tamei until you can prove it's tahor. So the tliya has to be a tliya of not machnis safek. The tliya can't be a tliya of machnis safek. It has to be, I have an explanation to what the dam is. Kol zman I don't have an explanation, misafek I'm not going to come and say. And that's what the Noda BiYehuda explained. What the Noda BiYehuda is trying to say, one says that every safek, every safek is a safek. Once it's a safek, it's safek dRabbanan lkula, we don't care. So what's the second pshat? No, no, no. You have to prove that it's not megufa. What does he mean? So I'm saying because he learned that every kesem is tamei till proven otherwise. Every kesem is tamei till proven otherwise. Arba bshuk shel tabachim is not a hachnasas safek to the sugya. Arba bshuk shel tabachim is a tliya, to be motzi from the fact that it's a kesem tamei. Okay, Rafi, say it again. I'm having a very hard time with my voice. Go ahead, say it up. Get up and say it. Tatchilah meatchalah barurah. I'm saying a beautiful vort. You could be like any tliya. It's not like we should be toleh on this. But it has to be a tliya, though. And the tliya is not just she sat next to a chicken, because then it's a safek. Sitting next to a chicken is a safek. It's a good safek. Working in the kitchen is a good safek. Right? A nurse, it's a good safek. Yeah, but it's not a pliya. It's not an explanation, vadai, what the dam is coming from, that we can come and say, tahor. Okay, say it again. Start from the beginning. Yes, you could. There's a machlokes. You know what? I have an idea. Say over the Rambam. You forgot the shitas haRambam? Maybe the beginning, the Rambam. As long as you have a tliya, it can be tahor. As long as you have a tliya, it can be tahor. What about l'maalah? Huh? What about l'maalah? It needs a tliya. Here, so the Rambam's shita is, you always need a tliya. Once the tliya is there, l'maalah, l'matah, just not b'psarah. And why not? Because b'psarah, we know we're more machmir on some, okay? Nakim ovar b'shuk shel tabach. Stam l'maalah, l'matah, lo chash. Okay, continue. The shitas haRaavad, it's even b'psarah. Once you have a tliya, it's good. Okay. Oh, here, on top you don't need a tliya. Everywhere else you would need. Now, what's the story on top? You want to explain to me what's on top? The chances are it's not from there, unless she picked her foot up over her head. You know, why should you think that way? I ask you, I'm asking like this. First of all, what would be the pshat in the Rambam? I mean, what are the chances of her pick her head up over her head? You need teliyah. Why is the Rashba not right? Okay, so repeat the question. The Rashba's story is what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Who? The Rashba? Yeah, the Rashba's even. Even if he lifted the foot. Afilu. Afilu. Afilu is darkei birah gleah. Continue. Nu, continue. So the first thing is, what's taka pshat in the Rambam? I'm sorry, what's taka pshat in the Rambam? What's taka pshat in the Rambam? Yeah, what's the Rambam? Why do you need teliyah? What do you need teliyah for? Okay. So the Seder Taharah says a me'iri devar.

Yeah, what does he say? No, no, no, no. This is first shitah, the hezber of the machloikes. The hezber of the machloikes is like this. If you learn that it's only with a teliyah, because the pshat is she needs a teliyah to be machich it's not megufah. According to the first shitah, as long as it's a safek, so we say it's not megufah, right? Once it's a safek, so therefore it becomes tahorah. The other shitah is, the other shitah is no, that you need a hochachah that it's not megufah. So what's the yesod of the machloikes? What's the yesod of the machloikes? Okay, so he said like this. Look at the Seder Taharah. Seder Taharah says an interesting thing. It's a whole story. Okay, go ahead. They don't move around. There's nothing. Comes Reb Eliyashiv. Reb Eliyashiv says it can move to the side a little bit. Lamitkapel, lamitkapel. It zaz, and therefore it could be, and therefore she's tamei. Reb Eliyashiv, the Mishmeres Taharah brings down a psak from Reb Eliyashiv. It's probably in that new black book. It has all the psakim of Reb Eliyashiv, that new sefer. Okay, go ahead, yeah. He means to say that it's shayach that it can move around or not move around, or does he say that it's possible to move around? Right. It's just possible, so anything is possible. Anything is possible. No, possible. But what is possible? Possible. It has to be mamash not possible at all to be tahor, or it has to be that that's what happens. It's shachiach. Okay, so that's the hesber of the machlokes? Yeah. What is? You could learn, you could learn that anything... Yeah. Right. So then, according to this, let's say she comes and she went into the fish market. It's also good. No. No. You bring from Rabbi Bruna? No, no, no, no, no. Chazal gave a case, arva b'shuk shel tabachim. It doesn't say yavda b'mitbach. It doesn't say she's a nurse. It says arva b'shuk shel tabachim. Why? Because there it's mamash, it's almost impossible to come out clean, yet you need boots for it. You know, even the... to check it, they go with boots and then they go with a... I can't talk. I can't talk. Okay. That's the only time she has a heter. If she sits next to something that has blood next to it, that doesn't count. In order to come and say, you need a strong tliya what happened, right? So then I could come and say, you know something? All right. Let's say like this: it moved over, right? It's not from her. It's shayach that it might have moved, so that would be good enough, right? If you need a strong, strong tliya to be matir, you need a strong tliya the other way, meaning like this. In order to come and say that it's not from her, to come and say that it's not from her, which is what we're trying to say, because it's not on the beged tachton, it's on the beged elyon, so we're trying to say it's not from her. So the mere fact it's possible, possible, possible that it could be from her already takes away from the rov b'shuk shel tabachim. In order to say it's not from her, you need a strong tliya. In order to say it's not from her, you need a strong tliya. So kol zman it could be from her, and when you don't have the tliya, so then it's tamei. So here too, even though the chance...

is of it moving is almost nothing, but could have happened. So you don't have a guarantee that it's not from her. Once you don't have the guarantee that it's not from her, so Rabbi Yoshma says, therefore that's finished. It's not the sugya of bishul on tambach. Because l'maaseh this is not in the Rashba, because the Rashba learns that when it's l'maalah min hachagar, because it's only a safek, it's good enough. Because he holds not like— I'm showing you, he's learning it in the halacha l'maaseh, in this shita, in the Mechaber. I'm saying nobody argues on the Rashba. Yeah, but you're saying a different story. But what's l'maalah min hachagar and b'nizrakah? You're talking about that the foot went up, right? We're talking afilu nizrakah raglah. So the shayach is there. The shayach is there. That's not shayach. Afilu nizrakah, afilu nizrakah, what's the story? Yeah, but it's possible. It's not possible? It's not possible? No, I want to know what's the story. Nizrakah, her foot went over her head. If it's going on clothes, that definitely goes. So when it says— so when he says like this, afilu lo avra b'shuk shel tapachim, she'ilu ba min hamakor haya nimtza gam al bsarah. Vadai or it's a sevara, meaning he's saying, and therefore it's muchach that it's not from her. I want to see from the poskim, how do they read this? How does he bring it down? How does he learn up the mechaber? Let me explain to you, yeah? I have one question. According to Rashi, the ... Let me explain to you, yeah. Who says this? The Shach quoting the Rashba. Iefshar. It's not possible. Yeah, but what is he—how do you learn over here? No, read it. ... It's not possible. The point is that there is a makom to say that it came from her, because her foot—she picked her foot up over her head, no? It doesn't make a difference. The point is, יש מקום להקיש זה מזה, ובכל זאת, ובכל זאת, ... למה? So he says a cheshbon because it's impossible that it shouldn't come from her. It's impossible that it wouldn't have been al psarah. So I'm asking you a simple question: what about if it's possible, possible, but it's not probable? What would be if it's possible but not probable? Huh? ... Im כן היה צריך להיות גם על בשרה. I'm asking you, so it has to be impossible? So it has to be impossible. So what's the pshat in the Rambam? The Rambam's arguing on a metzius then? I didn't see what the Rambam says. What would the Rambam hold if it's l'maalah min hachagrah bli תלייה? I- it's impossible.

What do you mean? Why are you looking at me like that? I'm asking you. Oh, oh, what the Rambam means—oh, what did you say? He meant to say it's very, very not sharp. Okay, thank you so much. It's not probable. Sound familiar? What is the Rambam talking about? How could the Rambam commentates from her if it's impossible? How could the Rambam say it's from her if it's impossible that it's from her? Because that's what it says. It says, it says it's impossible. That's what it says. I'm not reading, that's what it says. That's what he says. Oh, what? You mean they're arguing in the metzius if it's possible or not possible? Yeah. ...it's the rightos, no? How do you go? ...she jumped. ...the Rambam, ... What does it mean? She laid out flat? What? She jumped. She jumped like a goat. Like a gedi. Dear. Dear. So what is the Rambam? Tami explains the Rambam. Does anybody explain this Rambam? Can't be, so it can't be. So what do you want? How could you talk about something that can't be? ... al basarah, lo al basarah, v'aleha al chalukah k'shehi kaftzah. Katuv פה, right? ... Right? ... Shani, she'efshar lidam l'tavtei, l'shois v'yoreh, v'negaei pa'amim b'chaluk v'shelo yiga b'bsaro, efshar. So what happened? Nu? What is the efshar? He doesn't mean the efshar. The efshar doesn't make—it's not reasonable. It makes sense. The Rashba learns that whenever there's a safek, whenever there's a safek, finished, that's all. The Rambam says it's not enough for me. The Rambam holds even where there's a safek, it'll still be tamei, as long as I have an explanation to say vadai. Avra b'shuk shel tabachim is vadai. Lefi zeh, I don't agree with ... I just don't agree with. The way I learned up the Shulchan Aruch, I don't agree with. Okay, repeat over. Write him a letter. No, because I'm learning that once there's any safek. The Shulchan Aruch, who's paskening like the Rashba, will hold it's mutar. מה הסברה של הרייבד בין הרשבא ובין הרמבם? שמע. הרמבם לומד. הרמבם מבין. עוד לא הרייבד, הרשבא. אנחנו עדיין לא ברייבד. הרשבא. הרשבא לומד. כל פעם שיש לי ספק, אני מבטל את זה. הוא יגיד, כל הספיקות. והרמבם אומר, אני צריך להיות מאוד מאוד מאוד חזקה, כי אם אני לא מאוד חזקה, אני... למה? הפשט הוא, הכתם עד שיש לי ראיה לפוך, זה לא טהורה. According to who is this? The Rambam. But the Rashba would hold? The Rashba is going to learn, no, that kol zman, kol zman... There's a svara to say... Even if it's not a proper probability, it's a good safek. It's a good chance. Well, why should be tamei? So then why is it one time... Rebbe, so why is it on top then? Why do we say it's tahor? Because there's no chance. I mean, it's...

It's a safek, no? Why should you think it comes from her? For what? Either the pshat is whenever there's a safek, it's tahor, or the pshat is you need a clear, tell me why it should be tahor. Otherwise it's tamei. Otherwise it's... So the reason according to Rav why a mechubar l'ma'alah is tahor, because it's a safek. It's enough for him. Huh? No, that's not called a safek, because it's reasonable where it came from. You don't need guarantee. Why do I need a guarantee? No, read the... Okay, now, listen carefully. Mamshich. Listen carefully. How does he pasken l'maaseh with beged elyon and beged tachton? L'maaseh, beged elyon, beged tachton. Are we afraid that it moved over a little bit? Are we afraid of such a thing? Yes, what does he say? U'bizmaneinu, shehanashim lo lovshos beged tachton hamehudak laguf, v'nimtza dam beged b'chelek hachitzon, tahor. Im lo pashtah habeged bein tayos, shenafal dam b'eis hazman. Kach, cause a piskei teshuva b’shem Mesivta Torah, dafke b’gil chalakim, ... irus, she’azai habegadim tuchim milmaalah u’lematah k’miluchim im Ezra. Okay. ... vadai eino over Torah. ... bedika to’eh. ... paskins, it’s not a gezeirah b’zman hazeh. What’s his name says that it is. Could have moved. It could have moved. He just says if there’s a makom to say that it moved over. ... Maybe he’s not talking about that case. He’s talking about our case. What if he’s talking about a case where—what do you call this—the shorts, the boxers? It’s makom to move. It could move. So maybe that he would say yes, we could be. You’re busy with the boxes and the underwears. I’m not interested in boxes and underwears. I’m talking about in sevara. You know, you don’t—how could you metameh an isha? Because maybe. That’s a safek. What do you want? You have the Mishmeres Taharah, you have it here. You have the black book here that brings ... Why not? Okay, let’s move on. Now. I have to go to a doctor. Okay, let’s move on. Huh? Be strong. You have strong. I fight. A whole life I fight. Okay, let’s move on. Vocal cords. Who? Something in the vocal cords. It's something in the vocal cords. It could be that the bacteria went into the vocal cords. I need medication. I need medication, otherwise it'll never go away, right? I mean, I need antibiotic, otherwise it'll never ever go away. It's not good for the... What? For this, for that. Because otherwise it went on and on and on. I don't know if it's going to go away eventually, but they said... I heard it's not good to take antibiotics because, well, they're going to be, you know, the bacteria... Okay, antibiotics. I know, I know. Okay, come. That's why I'm not going, because when I was in the hospital, I took so much antibiotics that I'm trying to stay away from them. Okay, let's go. This is never going to go away with antibiotics. Okay, let's go now. Right, but I can't do that. Now, the Seder Torah has an interesting question, all right? Tell me something. It's not possible. What are we afraid of? Did she pick her foot up, right? I have another resolution. יש לה עוד עצה. She bent down.

Yonatan, you have to do me a favor. We have to have a shiur. Shiur is, מי שמדבר והשני שומע, okay? Bakasha. Lefael, is it possible that she bent down? Why does it have to be that she picked her foot up? Maybe she bent down. Same thing. Are we worried when she picks her foot up? How's it gonna go on her beged chiluk if she bends down? She bent down to cut her nails. So what's the big deal? The same way she's able, I think, honestly, it makes more sense that she bent down than she picked her foot over her head. Don't you have to have the nitaz on the clothes? If she bends down, it's never gonna be nitaz, but with her foot going up, it's gonna be nitaz. If a woman goes to cut her nails, there's no reason why it can't be. There's no reason for it. It's hard to imagine that. Okay, so you know what? Could you look at se'if yud alef? No? Yeah. חן נמצאה על ידה, ... ואם ידה נזדקף והגביהה רגלה למעלה טפח. One second. Is this the same halacha as this? Something's wrong over here, no? Isn't this a shtickel contradiction? V'chein im nimtza al yadeha, afilu kishetz bosehes she'adayin maskanis, Hashem hanagah boi samach. Aval im nimtza shekeva pesem mitzad chutz, afilu matzdadim, v'ein tzarich lomar l'ma'alah meisamakom tahor. V'im yoda shebigbir haglel l'ma'alah tmeiah bechovak shtein, afilu l'ma'alah mechagrah. Why? Because we're afraid that it got there. So why over here we're not afraid that it got there? Because it's chaluk. Why not? What's the difference? Over here we also see on her basar. Yeah, but she didn't see on her basar down; she saw on her basar up. Yeah, because she wasn't covered with clothing. Again, they're talking about two different nireh al basarah. Nireh al basarah means underneath. There's no reason that it shouldn't be down, anywhere down. Here we're not talking about this. Here we're talking about al basarah meaning on top. Does it say that we're afraid that the blood went on top? Is it on the ne? Doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter, right? When it says psarah, when it says psarah, he means on the ne, because it can't be that it's not here and it's on top. One second, maybe you know something. You don't even realize what you're saying. What are we afraid of, I'm sorry? What's ma pachad? He says, no, explain me the Shach, nu. Nu? The Shach in se'if chav-zayin says that it should not be on her basar, it's impossible. Which basar? No, why should it be on top and not basar? Because if she sees it on her beged on top, so it should be on her basar also. Not on top, on the bottom. What are you talking about? On the leg, of course on the leg. Of course, it has nothing to do with the basar. What are you talking about? The basar that he's referring to is down, not anywhere, not on top, down. What are you talking about? In our se'if, the story is that she's wearing clothing on top, and the top is dirty, not the basar. Forget about the basar on top, we don't care about the basar on top. Why don't we care about the basar on top? Because she's—

Clothes. The shailah is, but why is it not anywhere on her body? It had to come from somewhere. So the case over here is what? Al yadei on her hand. But it doesn't say that we have to check the bottom, because it's possible that it came. What do you mean? Why don't you check the bottom, see it's impossible, how could it not be al basarah? How can we don't come and say that it's—why is it not al basarah? So this kasha the Seder Taharah asks. He says he doesn't understand, something wrong over here. Pokatuv shechosheshim, when she picks her foot up, and pokatuv shelo chosheshim. It had to be somewhere on the bottom. So if it's not on the bottom, there's nothing to talk about. What about this case? It's the same story. It's on her hand here. The basar here is not helping you with the question, how come it's not down? Why don't we say, let's look on the bottom, how come it's not there? That's the Seder Taharah's question. The Seder Taharah's question is, when she picks her foot up, how can we don't say where is it on the bottom? That's the Seder Taharah. So he gives a teretz. Says the Seder Taharah that there's a chiluk if she's wearing a chagurah. In halacha, in aleph, she's wearing a belt. Yeah? Huh? Whatever it is, whatever you want to say, it's loch patim. Ma she'ata choshev shezeh, zeh. Okay? Pam medubar... בלי. In our case, it's with this, and there's talking about with. Go ahead, read the siddur. Make it up. Go ahead, go ahead, read the siddur. No? No? Right. Yeah. V'kasha li. Yeah. Afilu eini yachol l'hagia. Yud gimmel. Yeah. Nimtza. Yeah. Nimtza al beis yad shel chaluka. Let's see, yud gimmel. Nimtza al beis yad shel chaluka. Im hamalkos shenimtza b'yadam, b'beis yad, magia ad beis toref u'tmei'ah. V'afilu eini yachol l'hagia sham, ela im kein tishkarbeh, v'im eini yachol l'hagia sham, klal, then it's tahor. So we're choshesh that she'll bend down a lot. V'kasha li, d'ilu hacha mitameh afilu eini yachol l'hagia al yedei sicha harbeh, v'ilu il, see if you're beis, gabi makom hachagar, kasav Beis Yosef, d'metamei mishum sheyedei shechiyah hu etzba'ah l'makom hachagar k'neged beis hataref. Mashma davka, shemagia lo is l'makom, al yedei shechiyah hu etzba'ah hu d'metamei. Yeah.

מצאת בית יד. מגיע עד בית תרופה. אפילו אינה יכולה להגיע שם, אלא אם כן תשחה הרבה. ואם אינה יכולה ליגע שם כלל, בית יד. Sleeps. נמצא על בית יד של חלוקה, אם המקום שנמצא בו האדם בבית היד מגיע עד בית תרופה, טמאה. Oh. It could be magia there. You could touch. You could. Right. אפילו אינה יכולה ליגע שם, אלא אם כן תשחה הרבה. Right. Lemaaseh over here, she picked her foot up. What about if she bends down? I asked you this question. So Beis Yosef says, we don't care about bending down. Bending down doesn't count. Now she—why not? How come it doesn't talk about bending down? Yeah. I thought you did the Beis Yosef. You didn't do it? Bending down. ... למה לא מדבר מישהו לוקח הרגל ושם את זה למעלה מהראש? Acrobatics. Talking about normal case, she bent down. So how come it doesn't talk about bending down? Why ... Daniel? Good kasha. ... Nifla, nifla v'noira. למה לא מדבר על bending down? So what's his teretz? He says, Yud Aleph is talking about what? Oh, there is chagur. The mafsik. Yeah? She's told that she's wearing a chagor. Hamafsik, ma she'ein kein over there. What about over there? What about in the halacha over there? Mafsik. Mafsik, in a way שהוא למעלה מן החגור. ואי אפשר לבוא נגד בית התורפה. אבל כשאין החוגרת חגורה, יש לומר באמת חיישינן, אף אם נמצא למעלה ממקום החגורה, ומיהו מסתימות הפוסקים לא משמע כן. Where she wears a chagurah, we're not choshesh l'maalah min hachagurah. Where she's not wearing a chagurah, חוששים. First of all, you want to know something? I was thinking of something interesting. Your nephew told me, שאתה באים משבט בנימין. You know this? Aha. So I was thinking maybe teimani has to do with Binyamini. It has to do with Binyamin. יכול להיות? ימיני. ימיני? אני אומר, תֵי ימיני. Okay. הימיני, תמות. ידיד ה', ישכון לבטח עליו, תמוד ותגיד את השאלות פה. Okay, that's why אני עמוד הרגלך. התחיל מהדין שכיחה, הסתירה, וגם הסתירה משם לפה. Yeah. Okay. ... אני לא יכול לדבר. ... Yeah. Okay. אז אומר מרן השולחן ערוך, שאם נמצא על התרבול של חלוק, והמקום, אם הקטע שהמקום נמצא... Last week it was supposed to...

Okay, let's see. Come, yeah? What do you have over there? What do you have? What do you have? מה יש לך שמה? Okay, go ahead. Say it over. אם הנמצא על שביל חלוקה, וזה במקום שיכול להגיע ליד... Yeah. ואף על פי שבשביל להגיע לשם היא צריכה להתכופף... מה אם she has to bend down? I mean, acrobatics. אז למה את כל השביל, אם אתה בידיים אתה מגיע? חוששים. אז את כל השביל, אז מה זה? מה כתוב פה? דיברנו על שהרגל למעלה. What about מה שהיא צריכה to bend down? אומר הבית יוסף, אה, זה לא. לא חוששים. שואלת חכם, מה יותר שכיח? What's more normal, that she should bend down or she should pick her foot up over her head? What's the pshat? כך הוא אומר, שמדויק, שלא אמרינן שהיא bent down a lot. תסתכל בשירי טהרה, כתוב מפורש. נו. מה זה, אם נמצא באותו מקום, הרי אם אתה אומר שאפילו כשהיא משתחווה, אז כל השביל יכול להגיע לאותו מקום. אם כן, כן או לא? אין, אין. תביא לי מקום שזה לא יגיע. זו שאלה מציאותית. נגיד שכן, אז כן; נגיד שלא, אז לא. לא חשוב. אבל זה מה שכתוב. הבית יוסף אומר, אבל בהלכה שלנו רק only אם מרים את הרגל. No, no. What's the difference? There's shelatzuma. V'ani sho'el, harei po bahalacha katuv she'imi herima es haregel, lo mechapsim lirot im ze lemata gam ken. Why not? Why don't we say the same svara? Why don't we check where it is? Hacham it's not on the foot down here. Hacham it's only on top. But because it's on her hand? תסתכל בהלכה י״א. כתוב, תוסיפו. לשם כתוב שתמיה. תוסיפו. נזדקקנו. But why? What's the difference? If you tell me it can't be, so it can't be. I'm going to tell you yesod. I hope this is a very big yesod. You hear the kashya, Rafi? And I'm maskim to them? Yeah. What happened? And also there's a stira between benting and not benting. So the Siddur Torah says a nafka mina, a very interesting nafka mina. Here it's talking about she's wearing a belt. Mashenken here she's not wearing a belt. What's the difference? י״א she's... she is wearing a belt. What's the nafka mina? There's a meirdiker Rashba here. Let's take a look at seif yud daled. Who wants to read seif yud daled? Go ahead, Ilan, go. ... בכל מקום שנמצא בו טמאה, ... וכן הדין נמצא ... שמחזיר ראשה או שחוגרת בו. אם קשרה בו ראשה היטב, כשנעורה, גם כן מטהרתו, קשור יפה, אין לחוש. Okay. So it's mashma she'yesh bi poshet u'mitkaseh bo. What about, says the Rashba, he lo pashta, aval nitlachech ha-sadin, u'meha-sadin hi. She's no sleeping. Why can't we be afraid that the sadin became tamei? Why it's on her head? No, she's laying on it, and from that she... Why does it have to be that she was poshet u'mitkaseh bo? Omer ha-Rashba, kanideh, muchach shelo omrim — we don't say that from the thing and then to you, and that's called lo machzikinan tumah.

Mimakom l'makom. The tumah is here, fine, we all say, came to you. There's another Rashba. The Rashba says, what about, let us be choshesh that she took it from her hand. It's a halachah, maybe she wiped herself and she touched on her hand. Says the Rashba, oto davar, lo chosheshin, mimakom l'makom. So what's the pashut pshat? The pashut pshat is, it's klalim in tumah and taharah. Kan nimtza, kan hayah, and that's all finished. Tumah doesn't work mimakom l'makom. Yeah? Are you ready? You know what I'm going to say, right? No. I'll show you what I'm going to say. Anybody tell you that a ketem isn't the blood? Ketem is where it falls on. Remember we spoke about this? Is it the blood? Is it about the blood? Or is it about it fell onto this, so that's the ketem. Samim is where it falls. Let's say a woman is wearing a chagor, she's wearing a belt, wearing a belt. So when she bends down, where did the ketem fall? Again, she's wearing a belt, she's wearing a chagor, right? And the ketem came out, and she bent over the chagor, right? And now it's on her. So it's on the top or it's on the bottom? Where is the ketem? Huh? I say it's on the bottom. I say it's on the bottom, and the top got it from the bottom. When she's not wearing a chagor, and she bends down, so then the taich is that it could be it fell on top. It's called it fell on top. Even though it's first on the bottom. Where it's not supposed to go on top, and you bend down to bring it to the top, that's not called it fell on top. It's called it fell on the bottom. Think about it. Kisheyarad, v'ani, I bent down. So here I'm not wearing a chagor, so my whole body is roi l'kabel this ketem. If I'm wearing a chagor, so technically, מצד כשזה יורד זה צריך להישאר שמה, אבל אני עשיתי איזה פעולה to go get it. You know what it reminds me of? When you make a kinuach. Remember we spoke about it? When you make a kinuach, where did it actually fall to? It fell... Inside of you, but you went and you took it. Where it fell, lematah, you bent down and you got it. Were you not wearing a chagor? Were you not wearing a belt? It's like one body; that's the difference. Yeah. If it fell on a baget and then you got it from that baget, that's you got the ketan from the baget. I don't care if now you find it by you. Dibarnu, im adam asah kinuach. What happens by kinuach? We say a very big chiddush, that actually where was it found? Inside, by you. And you were mekaneach it, so you took it from where it was found. So if there's a chagor, right, so technically when it fell there was no way for it to come on top. You're wearing clothing with a belt; there's no way for it to come on top. By you bending down, it's like a kinuach. That's what the Seder Taharos is being mechadesh, muridike yesod, muridike, muridike yesod. And I hold maybe that's what—

There's no way that it shouldn't have fallen first on you. Let me taftef, it goes down. So when you pick your foot up— let me backtrack a second. Let me go slowly. I'm putting five things together. Okay, you ready? Ad pam. Dibarnu shehayesod shel ketanim, ze efo ze nimtza. Kincha et atzma. We say ze nimtza bifnim, v'ata lakachta. You took it away from me. Chagor, ze haya tzarich lipol lemata. Atah lachta, and you took it by bending down. So if you're wearing a chagor, and a chanami, it's supposed to fall on the bottom. If you're not wearing a chagor, which means you're not wearing clothing, let's say, so then it could fall anywhere. When someone isn't wearing a protection, right, so then the ketem could fall anywhere, so the nimtza could be anywhere. But where there's a protection, where there's something, the ... it malfunctions, ... something happened, that's the pshat: you took it from the place. Where it was supposed to be. That's not that the ketan was nimtza. You found the ketan, maybe. מה אתה שואל? Huh? מה אתה שואל? אם יש חגור זה יותר חמור, היה צריך לא לעלות למעלה. מה שזה מפסיק, אז מה שזה נמצא למעלה, אתה לקחת את זה למעלה. So it's no different than what the sevara that we said by kinuach, that the poiskim... No, therefore she's tahorah. Therefore she's tahorah. It's not possible that it didn't drip down. So I'm asking, what do you mean it's not possible? It's not shayach? What does he mean by it's not possible? Huh? So I ask you, how come in the case of yad, how come in the case of yud aleph here, אבל אם נמצא על שקע ועל פוסל מצד חוץ, ואין צריך לומר למעלה מאותו מקום טהורה. ואם יודעת שנזדקק והגביהה הגללה למעלה טמאה, בכל מקום שתמצאנו. What's the case? With a chagah or without a chagah? Without. Okay, I have a better shaylah. You ready? I had this question: yadayim askaniyos, even if she's wearing clothing? What's the story about the yadayim askaniyos? I don't know. I'm not so sure about that. If she might do bedikah, right? What does that have to do with askaniyos? Give us the... yadayim askaniyos? It's a case because she might have done a bedikah. Let me talk, let me talk. What does yadayim askaniyos... Askaniyos means...

She's not, not bedikah. Again, again, again, again. What are you saying? This is what I want. She might have touched herself. What does it mean, not bedikah? She might have touched herself, right? Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. And what happened? What happened? Yeah, but there's clothing there. Huh? That's what the din is saying. Huh? That's a better question. The whole sugya about ikva al ragleha, with clothing, without clothing. Huh? Even with. Even with? Okay, so I want you to write down that I hold not that. I need my ... They go with robes. They go with robes. It's without clothes. It's without clothes. ... She's in the bathtub. ... It's not on a regular day. It's not the regular story of ... How does he explain ...? I want to see this. ... Go ahead, yeah. He brings Seder Taharah, and then he says, v'dachuk leha'amid din ze b'chugeret. Oh! Oh! You see? He just said it. That's what I'm telling you. Read it. Vedochuk lahamid din zeh bechogeret. I just said it’s exactly what I’m telling you. Ah! Go ahead, read it again. Vedochuk lahamid din zeh bechogeret. What are you talking about? Din, this halacha. Yeah, this is two things. He asks the question, he brings the Seder Taharah. Yeah, go ahead. So he says, vedochuk lahamid… and then he brings… No, he’s talking about the… Yeah, okay, the Aruch HaShulchan. He’s talking about the first… Okay, yeah, Aruch HaShulchan. Go ahead, go ahead. So, ba’Aruch HaShulchan דחה דבריו, וכן משמע סתימת הפוסקים. She went back on the whole… Okay, I thought you meant this halacha. I want to know these halachos. Is טומאה בחגרת or בלא חגרת? I hold it’s טומאה בלא חגרת. Yud Aleph. Yud Aleph is טומאה when she’s not wearing a garment. Yud Aleph is טומאה when she’s in the bathhouse. But if she’s fully clothed and the last time she checked for sure, there’s no— all these halachos are not… Okay, listen, rabosai, I can’t do anymore. My voice doesn’t let me. I can’t talk. That’s it. I have to go to doctor. I can’t. I have to go to Kolstein. But you know what it is? Goltzin has to stop talking anymore. I think you changed the schedule. I think he’s starting to act normal these days. I’m gonna meet Goltzin. I’m in big trouble. I can’t talk. Irrelevant to Goltzin. He said that this is in the… In the boat. Same thing. What weeks in love of not being able to talk. Months, right? And then I went away after ten days. Now it's gone away. Not by red, it's vocal cords. It's the vocal cords. I had— whenever I had in the sinus, went into the vocal cords. It's another issur. It's an issur. My main thing all day is I can't— all day long I can't talk. I can't speak. You know what it's to say shiur when I can't talk? You know what I'm saying? What? I said, I said it.