Hilchos Kesamim: Teliyah B’Makah, Retroactive Discovery, and the Limits of a Valid Teliyah

Transcript

Okay, let's go. So the pshat is, yeah, what's called a teliyah rechokah. Okay. Now I want to make an interesting observation. Af echad lo asah et ze, u'af echad lo ya'aseh et ze, u'bafarim lo katuv. Yesh lechol adam להגיד מה שאינו ראויות; אין לדיין אלא מה שעיניו רואות. The lashon is, v'to'eh, v'chol davar sheyachol litlos. Tell me, who are we talking to? Her. Is it our psak or it's about her? And I want to tell you, the lashon of the Gemara, where this comes from, shehi yecholah litlos. The Gemara adds even the word shehi. Tola ze hi, yeah? And the Gemara even says shehi. The Gemara is madgish, shehi yecholah litlos. Now understand, give me cases of normal teliyah. What do you mean, shehi? So kipshuto, I would say because she's the one that's becoming tamei and tahor. It doesn't mean more than she's becoming. It's a negelah. Because meilo omrim kol shehi yecholah litlos. It's a nigleh, ולכן אומרים היא. או יכולה להגיד חידוש. בשכופה ראשונה ונדבר זאחא. Does she have to go to a rav to ask? Could she come on her own and say, I think it's from here. אני מרגיש, אני חושב, אני... היא לא יודעת, טיפשית. A woman is not... she doesn't know halacha. נכון שהיא לא יודעת הלכה. היא לא, היא לא, היא לא... סתם, היא... היא לא משוגעת, היא יודעת, אם יש כתם. And tell me something: when there's a stain on a child, the wife knows right away where it's from. אדם לא יודע, אבל האישה יודעת. היא יודעת, שזה... יה, יהוא אכל, יהשב... They know about dirt. They're not stupid, right? What do you think, they're stupid? It's, if you think about it. So maybe the pshat is, כל שהיא. It's a din to her, which means if she feels secure, אם היא חושבת שזה כתם, לא יכולה להיות שהיא לא חייבת לשאול את הרב שאלות. לא צריך לחפש בשולחן ערוך דינים. זה מה שאני רוצה לחדש, בינתיים. בינתיים, בשכופה ראשונה. Rav, you hear it? It's interesting, interesting dehe. כיוון שקסמו דרבנן, מקילין בהם, so it's us, מקילין us. But then it says, ותולה, and she, not ותולין. It should have been, we are תולין. And the Torah says, ותולה, בכל שהיא רוצה לתלות. זה תלוי בה, במחשבתה ובהבנתה. So she doesn't have to go to a rav? If she, maybe. I'm saying, I'm saying, בשכופה ראשונה, I would say no. She's not stupid. If she has a cheshbon, then it's good enough. If she has a cheshbon, if she's not stupid, she knows if it's from her, from the street, she's not a dummy. Maybe she could be toleh because she coulda litless. I'll soon show you why I'm saying this, okay? There's a big shaila in the poskim if you could say a teliyah l'mafreya. What does it mean, a teliyah l'mafreya? For example, there's a ketem, and then three days later she has a makah. Three days later they find the makah. Im yecholah hi lagid, ah, mistama zeh hayah ketem shel shnei yamim lifnei zeh. This is a machlokes haposkim, and they all bring it. Every sefer, I think it's a Beis Shlomo and this one and that one, and the Badei HaShulchan brings it down, halacha l'maaseh. This is the way it is, okay? Sheyesh machlokes. Pashtus lo omrim. Pashtus we don't say l'mafreya. That's the maskana of the later, the Acharonim, which is a very interesting thing, because it comes out that a woman says, Ah, no.

There's no ah. There's no ah. If you knew of the ketem b'shaas ma'aseh, good. Now, I guess b'shaas ma'aseh could be b'shaas she'eilah also. B'shaas she'eilah, k'she'sho'alim. B'shaas ma'aseh doesn't have to be b'shaas shematzata ketem. I just want to point this out. B'shaas shematzata ketem, lo chayav sheyeh kvar et ha-makah. Aval mi'shaas she'eilah, hayah tzarich lihyot kvar makah. Acharei shnei yamim, להגיד, oh, zeh yevsher. It doesn't say this clearly in the poskim. I would just add that. Take out your Badei HaShulchan, your Yalkut Yosef, your Avnei Shoham, your Shiurei Shevet HaLevi. What else does everybody have over there? Your Shaarei Taharah, your Torat HaTaharah, your machloikes ha-poskim, whatever you have over here, okay? Kol sefer she'ata mishtamesh bo, Darkei Taharah, Taharas Derech, whatever you have, okay? ותציין שמשמע שממשעת מציאת הכתם היה צריך כבר להיות המכה. I don't know. I'm not so sure about this. As long as b'shaas she'eilah it's there, it has to be b'shaas. You came to ask, why am I saying this? Why am I saying this? You know, in sevara it doesn't really make sense. What would be the sevara behind it? I mean, honestly, if you have a makah, so maybe it's from there, so what's the problem? Yeah, so whatever it is, I don't understand. A suffix. I mean, you have a ... stam. Suffix on the issur started earlier. Yeah, but you found the kli later. I mean, if you try to find something later, it's no good. Again, you're missing my story. If there is something that you investigated and found out later that could be the reason for what was before, it's not that that's not the reason, but it could be the reason. But again, time-wise is not of the essence. The shaylah is, is there something that I could come and say that it's from? Yes, I found out later. Hasna dukei. This is a simple thing. If a person comes and finds a ketem after, before, and a day later, or two hours later, she finds a maka, why is that a problem? She just didn't see it; now she found it. What's the big deal? Could be, but it could be not. I don't see it. Every kli b'makah is that way. If you have a suffix ... this is not what I'm talking about. עכשיו הגרון מתחיל להתרפק קצת, ברוך השם. Did you learn with him? Yeah, I did. Was he happy? Okay. Baruch Hashem, I went. I took care of what I had to take care of. It's getting a little bit bad. You notice it's getting a little bit bad, right? A little bit. ... Hasna dukei, rest over Shabbos. It was terrible on Sunday. Hasna dukei, rest over Shabbos. Just I went to the mekor of the problem and I took care of it. No, I didn't take care of the problem. It's the acid. I burned the ... Okay, you hear? Okay, listen carefully. Listen good. Listen good. Tishvu utav. Shabbos is a matchil litrapek tzad, little, little, yeah? Shabbos, I want to talk. Al tafriot. Listen good, rabosai. In sevara it doesn't make sense. If there is a reason to be toleh, and it's a derabbanan, so be toleh it. Why not? What does it have to do with time-wise? For some reason it has to do with like a din. Sheketem haya tzarich lihyot kvar lefanenu... I'm sorry, maka haya tzarich lihyot kvar lefanenu keshenimtza ha-ketem. What's that din? I don't know. I mean, in sevara it doesn't make sense. In sevara it is that way. I mean, if two hours later you found the reason, so you got your reason. What's the big deal? Why, if it's all about what it—what could it be? Okay, now you know what it could be. I mean, a kli is never what it is vadai; it's always what it could be. So why can't it could be an hour later? But the issur started. Yeah, punk, you didn't see it. Not that it wasn't there. So you think because it wasn't there—I'm not telling you it wasn't there. You didn't see it. But what do you—

Here, if you don't know. Yeah, on a drabbanan you have a sfek sfeika l'hachmir. You hear the lomdan? It's a drabbanan, and it's a sfek sfeika l'hachmir. I'm asking you, this is normal talk. You hear what a normal guy says? It's a safek, it's a drabbanan, but you have a sfek sfeika to be machmir. Sfek sfeika to be machmir. What are you talking about? Because there's no such thing. Why drabbanan? If you're already telling me there has to be a good teliya, that means you're not going to accept just anything, right? So I invented a makor. Oh, you know what? It could have been this, could have been anything. I invented? Who says I invented? And who says it's three days? Maybe it's an hour. Maybe it's an hour, maybe it will be different. Oh, so you're saying, okay, you know what, beis shlo... let me rewrite the beis shlo. Can I have it? That it's a difference in an hour, an hour and ten minutes. Ten minutes. Let me write it down. What are you talking about? What are you hacking a chainik about? I don't want diyukim. It's not diyukim. No diyukim, no diyukim. Please, please, no diyukim, no diyukim. It's a simple halacha. I'm medayek because I'm the Rosh Yeshiva. I have the right to do it. No, you say you're a shiur, then you'll hear your diyukim. In the meantime, I'm saying the shiur. It's my job. What do you want, take away my job? Want to take the ... שלי? ... בכבוד, תיקח את זה. אבל בינתיים היום אני פה. מחר אתה יכול לקחת את זה. Look, I'll pay the difference. Let me teach you something. In order to make diyukim, you have to be melumad in the lashon of the Gemara and the Shulchan Aruch. I'm melumad in the lashon of the Gemara. I spent my whole life, I spent 40 years of my life doing this, day and night. That's what I do. So when I make a diyuk, it's banui al yesodot halashon shel haGemara v'haShulchan Aruch. סתם לעשות דיוקים באמצע שולחן, בלי לימוד, צריכים לעשות. כשאתה לומד, אתה חייב לעשות את זה כדי להבין. אבל להגיד דברים מסקנה, מה שכן דיוק, מה שלא דיוק, זה עבודה של מישהו שלמד הרבה שנים. ולכן אני פה. אם לא, אתה לא צריך אותי. אתה יכול לזרוק אותי לזבל. בשביל מה אתה צריך אותי? אם לא, from my experience in learning, you don't need me. I answered your question. Okay, okay, I'm not upset at you, chutzpah. Believe me, I don't care. I like chutzpah, but I answered you. Okay, let's go further. Come. Listen here. Listen good, listen good. Rafi רצה ל... את הבישליים. He wants to kill it, he wants to take it and shoot it and make a difference, an hour, not an hour, before. You made it up, you made it up, you made it up. I found the makor. Well, I don't see it. It makes sense. אני הייתי אומר משהו אחר בבישליים. It has to do with זמן, that the makor is not just something clear mi-svara. The maka has to be there, she'al hamaka zarni to'enu. Why? Okay, so sit there, you'll listen. If you pay, if you wait, you'll listen, you'll hear. But that's what I think. I think that it's not just sevaros. And I'll tell you why I say this. You know why I say this? You said, kivan sheksamda banah, mekilin mehem, v'tovel b'chol davar sheyachol litlo. So finish. Whatever, I don't see. We're stupid? Who are we talking to? The people have no brain at all. A woman can't figure out where her ketem comes from? Shachta, this, leveses, chalukim. What do you want? Tell me what you want. Tell me what you want. Let me tell you what I think. I'm thinking of skipping a little ahead. You know what? I'll skip a little ahead in the way I wrote it. The Mishnah is where this comes from, and the Mishnah brings the din of klia b'maka, and then the Mishnah brings the story. The Mishnah brings the story. Ma'aseh b'Rabbi Akiva that they came, and then... so she says, You have a maka? Good question, right? What was the answer? It healed. Then he said—

Maybe it scraped it. Then, rosh hatalmidim, the talmidim were mishtaimim. They couldn't understand. So what did Rabbi Akiva answer? Remember what Rabbi Akiva answered? They said, Makel lchumra lkula. Im sorry, they said ketem lchumra lkula. Notice that I started this shiur with this yesod, lchumra lkula. Remember that? Lo amru lhachmir, ela lhakel. What do you mean, lo amru lhachmir? What does that mean? Right, but certain ones we did. Obviously, from the lashon it's mashma sometimes yeah, and here not. What do you mean? Just say, safek drabbanan lkula, and finish. Why didn't you just answer straight out, safek drabbanan lkula? Notice that I started the shiur with this, and you know why I started the shiur with this? Because I read the Mishnah. The Mishnah is telling me, yes lhachmir, vyes lhakel. There are times to be machmir, times to be meikel. But tos signon shel safek, it's not all just across the board, safek drabbanan lkula. Afilu bketamim, amru lhachmir vamru lhakel. Beautiful deal. Beautiful, no? I'll tell you something else. אתה שומע את הדיוק במשנה? נפלא. היה צריך לאמר, ספק דרבנן לקולא, ותלך מפה, מה אתה רוצה ממני? ולא אמר את זה. What did he say? Lhachmir ulhakel. Yes matzavim vyes matzavim, vhachachamim קבעו את זה. Ah, that's what it says in the Mishnah. I'm not making up more. I mean, you're just reading the Mishnah. I told you that this is pshat in the beginning too: yes lchumras vyes lkulas פה. מה הפשט בגמרא להביא את המעשה? ... I need a maaseh. Bring me — the rest of the cases are there. שחט, לבשש — ... מה באמת הפשט שתמו התלמידים? I'm not tamu. They don't know, I don't say they didn't know the halachos. I don't understand. לא ידעו את ההלכות? They didn't know the halacha of teliyah? What's the pshat in the ... tamu, הלשון תמו, תמיהון. They couldn't figure out safek d'Rabbanan l'kula. Rabosai, you know what the teretz is? This has nothing to do with safek d'Rabbanan l'kula. It's a different halacha. כיוון שגזרו חכמים דרבנן, אז מעיקרא הקילו בזה. It's not because it's a — it's not a d'Rabbanan u'v'safek d'Rabbanan. קבעו את ההלכה הזו באופן של קולא. אילך, you want to know the best thing you could do for yourself? Is to listen to what I just said and write it down. The best — it's better than any sefer you're going to find on this sugya, because I'm telling you a yesod. It's not about safek d'Rabbanan l'kula. And you want to know something? The Beis Shlomo — I'm sorry, the Lechem Mishneh — that's what he's asking: ... ספק דרבנן ... That's not what the Shulchan Aruch wants. The Shulchan Aruch is not saying that it's a safek d'Rabbanan. That's not what he wants. כיוון שגזרו חכמים דרבנן, זה מעיקרא החמירו והקילו. He's learning up the Mishnah. Beautiful. Rov ha-talmidim, v'tamei. Why would they tamei? Because they stood that it's a regular teliyah. Tell me, what are the chances of it being a makah that got scraped off? Scraped off? Well, why should it be a makah that's got scraped off? He galei adei... he scraped it, he scratched it. What's the story? And the answer is, almost not. אז התלמידים תמהו על זה. What are you saying? What did you tell him? You told that maybe, maybe, maybe it's possible? You really think that the dam comes from that? And the teretz is, hikilu v'chmiru, which means the chachamim were kovea certain guidelines of kulah. If there's a makah, you can be somech on it. Period. The chachamim didn't come and say, where you have a safek, where you have a safek, you can say no makah, no ketem. But the chachamim did say, I'm going to give you klalim.

That these klalim, if it's a maka, you're okay. There's one condition: the maka has to be a real maka motzi dam. It's a type of maka. There's a type of maka called a maka motzi dam. Once you have a maka motzi dam, i, the trap is not already a maka motzi dam, because since it could be that you could scratch it—I don't know if you scratched it. The shaila is not about you scratching it. But since it's a maka that could be motzi dam, on a maka that could be motzi dam, if you find it, then there's no problem of ketamim. And that's what they were tamu on. They were tamu on clear a choik in the sugya of tliya l'hakel. What does tliya l'hakel mean? How rachok does it have to be? So that's what I'm trying to say in the beginning of the shiur. Does rachok mean it's possible, like the Aruch HaShulchan, matzui? Or does rachok mean that it should be shayach b'metzius? Maybe rachok can mean all you need is that it should be shayach b'metzius. So what are the odds? You're talking about a—I mean, this is a normal person wouldn't say, Mistama, mistama not. Mistama not. Af al pi kein, because since it is a maka that could be motzi dam, since it's a maka that could be motzi dam, since it's a maka that could be motzi dam, therefore there's a din maka motzi dam that paters. I'm going to say it again. Tishme'u... Tishme'u tov. Let me say it again. The Gemara says a story. What do I need the story for? What is the story? And what does it mean that the Talmidim matmia? What is matmia? I don't say, You don't know safek d'rabbanan l'kula? I mean, what don't you know? Third of all, le'omru l'hachmir, l'hak... just say safek d'rabbanan l'kula. What are you talking about? The Teretz, rabosai, is it has nothing to do with it's a safek d'rabbanan and m'meila now we'll go l'kula. Hikilu mi'ikara, that way. They set up the dinim that it's a certain kula. It's not safek u'meila mekilin. It has nothing to do with really sfeikos. It's not about sfeikos. It's about because these are things that could have brought the dam. Once you have these things, maka, finished. You have a maka, but it has to be maka al yedei dam. It's a type of maka. So even if the chances of you... You know how I say it? It's about the maka and not the me'urah. It's not about what happened. It's not sfeikos about what happened. It's about the maka. You have a maka, so we have what to hang toleh, we have what to hang it on. Zeh, look at there. Tolin b'chol davar sheyachol litlot. Anything that you can hang it on. Not to come and be say it's probably here from here. It's not about that. And that's pshat, omru l'hachmir. So for certain things they were machmir. A certain things they will make. So they didn't give just a blanket halacha; you figure it out. Think of it yourself. I'll tell you what I have from this. I'll tell you what I have from this. In the sugya of l'mafreya, right, so I asked you a kasha: why does it have to be that the makah was there at the time? What happens if I have a hochacha that it is l'kusher? You're right, it's l'mafreya, it's afterwards. You found the makah afterwards, but, rabosai, what? But you have a hochacha that it's... I don't remember where I saw it, maybe in the Chut. I saw it somewhere, that they say if you have a hochacha... yeah, it's muchach, right? What's called a hochacha? No, I'm talking about l'mafreya, a story of l'mafreya. There's a sugya, we just said, that if it works l'mafreya. There's a whole shaila. I don't think it was — it wasn't the Badei HaShulchan. It was someone who talked about a hochacha, and he said that maybe the Chut Shani, with a hochacha, then l'mafreya would work, because now you know.

You have a raya. So I was clarifying what's called a raya. The rov is, the pshat is that the rov himself comes. You asked him a she'eilah, and he gives chakiros, whatever the story is, so he makes chakirah, he makes chakirah. U'vadai lo yeshal chachot, שזה המכה שיום אחרי שייך לקטן שיום שלפני, right? Or maybe that's not called a hochachah. You know what I would say a hochachah might be? A doctor comes and says that this is a makkah from two days ago. How about that? Go to a doctor. I'll tell you the nafka mina. I'll tell you the nafka mina. If you hold that it's about the story, so then the hochachah is where? In the story. But if you learn it's hagdarah in the ketem, that it's a ketem hamotzi dam, and on this there's a din to be toleh, so the hochachah might have to be from the ketem, that it's a ketem, from then that it's motzi dam. If you want to be toleh, and that's why I think the pshat is l'mafreya doesn't even work. Why doesn't it work l'mafreya? And the teretz is, it's not a raya. It's not a clue game. You know, in English there's a game called Clue. Know Clue is? Drisha v'chakirah, mi harag es ha... who is it, the butler, you don't know, whatever. Spy, haechon... espion. Huh? It's not a spy game, dude. It's a din that if there's a makah, you're toleh on that makah. It's a din to be toleh on the makah. So me'eila, mafrea doesn't work. Now, v'yevoi chochah. So what is the hochachah? Chochah might be enough, a raya that it was there then. Maybe. Well, maybe it's better. The hochachah has to be that this is a makah from then. The hochachah is not on the ma'aseh that the kesem was there. It's about the makah. That that makah came from there. That that makah was then. Let me say it again. Let me say it again. A lot of this could be investigative work, drisha v'chakirah. Ken, lo, haya, ken. I don't see it that way because it's too much detail. Yes or no, so you let the lady decide. Am I stupid? Maybe not. Chachamim hikilu. The lashon of the Mishnah, there's a certain, לפעמים החמירו, לפעמים הקילו. Hikilu. What's hikilu? כשיש דבר שיכולים לקלוט את זה. יש לי דבר מסוים, יש מכה, שוק של טבחים. These are teliyos. Makah. So then it's not so much me'efo ba adam. It's more about if you have a makah. Hasugi doesn't turn around to be. It's not about, does the dam come from the maka, but was there a maka that I could say that the ketem is tahor because of it? It's not about, is this dam maka. It's about, do I have the tliya of maka? Do you understand what I'm saying? You. Asking? No, but I hear, but you're starting— I told you, because the pshat is that the maka has to have the ability to have sheichus. I'm saying it's not stam a din, the maka. There's a maka in the— Okay, so let me explain to you what I mean. It's a type of maka that could have caused this. Do I need to know the middle? Do I need to have any rayas about the middle of that? There's a maka and there's a dam. How did the two get together? There was a—

Cat them, and there was a davar. There's a story in the middle, no? Do I have to know anything about that middle? Do I have to have any sevara behind it? Does that have to make any sense? Huh? Yeah, but what happens if it's such a davar rachok that it's almost impossible? The chances are not that way. The story of L'mafreya is the storyline of what we're talking about. You know that? In other words, it's two, three days later, right? So you have, you know what you have? You have the what could have been. You have the storyline, but you didn't have the makor. The storyline is there. What could have happened? Where could this dam come from? Yeah, it could have came from the makor. It makes sense. But you didn't have that makor to be toleh on. So what's wrong with that? I didn't understand. You can't say it could have come from there until you prove first that that was there. Till you prove. But why do you need that for? Why do you have to— Yeah, shayches. What do you mean, I see it? What do you mean, I— But just because I didn't see it then means that it wasn't there then? No, it doesn't mean that, but it means it could have come now. Since you don't have a definite source. You assigned anything to them, you don't know for sure it was there. I don't know. Probably it's the same thing saying in different words. What are you saying? Say it again. All I'm saying is, it's not even a story. Maybe this blood came from here because you found this thing much later, so who knows where this maka came from. How could you say, maybe the blood came from here? It's just a shaylah. I don't know anything about this blood. I don't know any kesher between this blood and this maka. I don't know when this maka appeared. You can say, yeah, maybe I didn't see it. Maybe you didn't see it. Maybe it actually just came now. It's a safek, I'm saying. So why can't you say safek l'hakel? I'm saying to you, already doesn't like this. It's bad enough to say that when there is a maka, yeah, it probably came from there. You don't even know that. You don't even know if the maka was there in the first place. So you're really going on a very, very... The fact that you're toleh at all is already playing statistics, not guaranteed. Give me the baal ha'esh, let's see how he brings it. I didn't understand it that way. Yeah, let me show you where it is. תחב לו כספק אצלה, עבר בשוק של טבחים, שאין התובע בו. דהכא נמי ספק אצלה, אם יש שייכות כלי כל עיקר בכסם זה, וכן בשאר כלים. ... ואין התובע בו, והיא טמאה. Shaychus. You don't know that there's a shaychus. I don't see why he can't see something about the... because he's saying it's too much of a...

I'm sorry, I have to take him off to the doctor, okay? So, yeah, it's something just, it won't be done now, so... Good, good, good, good. Okay. Okay, let's wait. I hear what you're saying, but I would like to say differently, because it bothers me. It bothers me. Yeah, that's the way I understand. He understands like me. I don't see why. Because he can't do that. Oh, so then you're going back to what I'm saying. Now what you're doing is, you know what you're doing? You're going back to the tachacham already made a balance. That's what I'm saying. So, okay, so can we not argue? Because I think we're getting very close to... we're getting closer and closer. I'm coming from one angle, you're coming from another angle, that there's something more than just sfeikos. Okay, let me move on. Let me tell you what I want. The Seder Taharah, se'if katan tzadi gimmel. The Seder Taharah in se'if katan tzadi gimmel says that even if it's a makah she'eina motziah dam, meaning she doesn't know. She'eina yodaas im motziah. You don't know? You know if it's a bleeding makah? How do you know? Still, it's mutar. What does he mean, yadaas? Means, you don't know if it's mamish motzi; you don't know if it's doing that. It's definitely shayach, otherwise it's not a maka. It has to be a maka motzi dam. Okay. What happens if a woman has pains? She has pain. You know, a lot of times when we make a bedikah, they ask if it hurts. And if it hurts, they can maybe tamaka, yeah? So what happens if she has ke'evim without even actually knowing that she has the maka? Could we come and say that this is maka, maka, sheshayach l'hotzi dam? Or maybe, what happens if she has pains, and those pains are normal pains that come with a maka? For example, you make a bedikah, siman sheyesh maka sham, aval hi lo yodaat mehamaka. Now I'll give you the best example. Let's say they want to be tovel by a bedikah that it's a maka. Does she have to go to the doctor? The doctor see the maka? Or it's enough to say if it hurts her, there's probably a maka there? Halacha lemaaseh, this is mamish nogea halacha lemaaseh. In other words, we don't have the maka even in front of us, but we have the ke'evim, which are a siman to the maka. Another shaylah: what happens if it's a maka that safek is motzi dam? You don't know. You don't know if there's a maket, motzi dam. It's possible. You don't know. A person get a punch. Sometimes motzi dam, a punch, sometimes not motzi dam. She got a punch. Books. Got a kick. Choliot sheze motzi dam, choliot sheze lo motzi dam. So, b'tliyah shel sofek shayach. Possible. You want to know what's possible? Is it possible? Yes, possible. But you don't have the makif in front of you. L'maaseh, there's no makif. Amati lecha shtei efshariyot. Efshariyot shayach, bli sheyeh hamakar lefanecha. ... Okay? Huh? Yeah. I'd rather didn't.

The case of the punch is not whether they bring a case where the makah is. You don't know. I'll give you an example, you know. I think Rav, what's his name, the Chut Shani, Rav Nissim Karelitz, I think, you give a shot. A shot. Sometimes motzi dam, sometimes not. Could be motzi dam. Choliot? Suffolk. You don't have in front of you makah motzi dam. It's not pshat makah sheyachol lhotzi dam, v'rak anach lo yodim im ze motzi dam. It's a safek on the makah itself. Maybe a makah is בכלל not motzi dam. It could be. So, but hilches tluyah shel maybe, maybe, maybe, hakol maybe, קיימא maybe, עד שצריכים ממש שהמכה יהיה לפניכם. Okay. The way we're learning, that the din kli b'makah is not so much in the maybe, but it's a din in the makah. So you first need a makah. Maybes is not enough. You would need makah. Maybes, what must be? Makah. You hear? I know, I'm just excited because I like it. My voice is better today, Baruch Hashem. Maybe, maybe. You have the maybe anyway. A maybe yesh on the makah. Ha-maybe yesh. המכה אינו. מכה שיש, maybe של המכה, ולא המכה עצמו. ... תלוי בשאלה שלו. ה-maybe יש. Okay. עכשיו, כשיש הוכחה למפרע. Let's go back to that. So what's the shaylah? The shaylah is, in the maybe, the maybe you might be a hat, but you don't have the makeh. The maybe of what happened you have, לפניך. The maybe is there, but the מכה לפניך, שאתה רוצה לתלות בה, it's not there. So you're saying it in the maybe meheicha teisi, but maybe is always not meheicha teisi. My kashya on the whole thing is maybe is never vadai; maybe is always maybe. So you're saying it's too much maybe. It's maybe maybe. ספק ספק, right? Maybe maybe, אולי אולי. עכשיו צריכים להסתכל ... בכללים של רבנן, אולי אולי, אולי וכן, אולי ולא, ולא וכן, אולי ואולי, איך פוסקים? Okay, maybe. גם זה אני אגיד אולי. Okay. גם האולי ואולי, שלך אני אומר אולי. Or maybe, יכול להיות. I want to say like, אולי, יכול להיות. It's possible, possible here, it's possible that since it's a דין תלוי, the מכה, you don't have that תליה in front of you. And if you need a hochachah, maybe the pshat is you need a hochachah not in the maybe, a hochachah in the makkeh. The makkeh was there. If the makkeh is such a makkeh that you see that it's three days old, so then the makkeh was there then, so then it's mutar. The hochachah shouldn't be in the me'ureh, in the makarah, but in the makkeh itself. Getting a little bit better? Okay. Now, what happens— no, Shabbos is יפה, יפה, no? מה לא הבנת? אני מחייב אותך להגיד כן. רק ... כל השיעור. סליחה, סליחה. ... לא ... All right, אתה כבר מוגזם. Okay. Now, what happens— שמואל, what happens b'makkeh ketanah?

It's a small makkeh. But it can't be motzi so much dam. But you have a makkeh there. Shatz, bidiyuk hatziur. Shatz, you can squeeze a little bit more. Could be. Did you squeeze it? Do you know if you squeezed it? What are the chances you squeezed it? It's a wild story. Now the truth is, the truth is you have a gris anyway. That you know you have, right? You have till a gris. Mashu yoter al a gris. Now gittin is lefi shiur shel hamakkeh. It's possible to give more, but you don't know, right? So I saw in sefer Chut Shani, he says like this. I even wrote down the lashon. Isha she'asu lah rofim zrika, o shehotziu lah dam lebdika, vechulu, kedaima, toleh bazeh, mipnei shematzui lif'amim. I like the way he says matzui lif'amim. To me that's contradictory words, but all right, matzui lif'amim. Shachami kan notef dam mimakom hanekev, af shelo nikar klal sheyesh sham makkeh. You hear? It's possible. It's possible, right? Possible. What's the shaychus to me? Could be, maybe it's notef dam. Huh? Nots in the phone. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I'm telling you, the way I look at it, once you have the makah, you can be toleh. Maybe you scraped it, maybe this, maybe... What's the difference? You have where to be toleh a possibility where it's from. It has to make sense. No, you don't know. If you know for sure that it can't, then it's not even worth to talk about. I'm saying, let's just a safek in—see, it's a different story. It's a story. I'm telling you another story, where it's a safek if this makah could produce so much dam. You don't know. Could be, but you don't know. According to you, what should be the halacha? Oh, come on. But the way you explained it, it's like a sfeik sfeika, so how should it be toleh? You tell me, because you don't have a hechrech where to be toleh it on in the first place, because you don't even know it exists, such a thing. You don't even know if you have the makah that can be motzi so much dam. I forget about his case. You know what? I'm sorry, forgive me for bringing it in. I want to know a story. Yesh lachash? Zeh kach. Choliot. You don't know. You don't know if this type of makah can be motzi so much dam, according to you, what should be the halacha? You can't be toleh. I say you could. Possible. Do you know fakert? Do you know the opposite? That's the difference between me and you. Now you see where the difference? The difference would be halacha l'maaseh. Write it down. Write it down, but write it down my way, because his way is wrong. If, let's say, you'll be maskim in a case if you don't know for sure, if you know for sure it's ... That's for sure, that I'm maskim. Here, אתה שומע? יש מכה, ואתה לא יודע אם שייך למכה זו להוציא כל כך הרבה. אתה לא יודע. It does make sense. It does make sense. You don't need kamutze. You don't need it. Where did you get kamutze from? No, no, no. It's a makah motzi dam, and it's a safek maybe it could happen. So you have where to be toleh from. ... לא מבין? ... אז מכה יש, אבל אתה לא יודע. ... למה? ... Because you have a makah that could be motzi dam, but not so much. But you don't even know that. You don't know either way. Let me tell you something. Because he thinks like me above, that's why he thinks like me here too. It has to do with the same way of thinking. And because you, deep down, think of what you think of above.

You're busy with this. See, I show you how halacha l'maaseh, it's going to come in nafka mina between me and you, the way we're learning. I'll bring you three, four more examples. You'll say it this way and I'll say it this way, because you started from that angle and I started from this angle. I'll tell you more. You ready? Now, take a look at seif tezayin. There was a lashon that bothers me very much. Let's do seif tezayin. יש לו מכה בצווארו, ונמצא קסם בחלוק, אפילו למטה מהחגור, שאי אפשר ליגע שם המכה פשטה, נתקסה בתול המכה, שאני אומר. Who's ani? Who's the ani omer? Oh, it's mechavel? I don't know. I don't think so. He needs to say שאני אומר in din. Hatlia. I would think to say. מי מדבר? שאני אומר. שאני אומר, he says mechavel. See, I told you I know what he's talking about. I'm not totally. שאני אומר. It's a way of saying kliyah. שאני אומר. When do I need שאני אומר? שאני חושש ששייך. I mean, what do I need שאני אומר? I have to say that that's what happened. I can say that's what could have happened. That's what it means. Anytime we want to use such a lashon. Could be, I don't know. I'm just being me'orer. What's the שאני אומר? Shani, I'm mistapek. I don't know. I have a safek. Shani toleh. What's shani omer? Shani toleh, yeah. What's shani omer? Shani omer is... Okay. Why taka? I don't know. It's something. It's more than just, it could be. Yeah. Also, what's taka pshat b'safek somech mi'ut? Why taka b'safek? I mean, why sometimes yes, sometimes not? I don't understand. What's the pshat? The Shach, kuf pei zayin, se'if katan chof zayin, right there. You know it? You know the Shach? Right there, right? Oh, you look it up, write it down. The Shach says a yesod, and it's very much like the Seder Taharah, that when you don't know if it's motzi or eina motzi, you just don't know. The stama, the halacha is tohor. So I always understood what he means: safek. And since it's a safek, derabbanan lekula, so it's mutar. According to you, does that make sense, what the Shach just said? No, I didn't think so. According to me, does it make sense? Yes, because kol zman you have a makor which could be motzi dam, so the makor is lefanecha. No, the efshar hotzi dam is lefanecha. You don't know. You don't know. It could. That's not a shaylah of could this thing usually does or doesn't. I don't know if this is בכלל a type of makka that's... That's right. That's right. So it's telling you here, not in the story, that happened to be, was it motzi yet or not. Maybe it's a completely different disease that never... Okay. You don't have that shem makka. Okay, so now let me show you again. The Rav Shulchan Aruch, Kuf Pei Zayin, סעיף ח׳. You can not take it out. He adds, because it's mistama, every makka is a motzi dam. Mistama, that's how we take it out. It's not שאתה לא יודע, אתה לא יודע. Don't take it out. I thought it was very cute. ... חסידים, ... מה שאומרים ש... ... כנסת, יום ראשון, I think it was יום ראשון. Tartikov, Tartikov a beis medrash. ... חסידים למדו, because זה הסמ״ד, היה נפל, היה ... היה נפל, נפל ונרה.

Run away from him. Al teilech mimenu, tarutz mimenu. Mi shematchilim sipurim ka'eileh, tarutz, tarutz, tarutzu, rabosai. Run away! Run away! You never know eizeh sirchon, eizeh masriach yetzei achar kach mimenu. Maher, maher, tarutzu mimenu. Hasirchon yetzei mehapech lo. Tzrichim miyad lehafef mimenu. Go ahead. Kuf pei zayin, se'if chof tes. Oh, the Shach, the Shach, afilu b'Shabbos veset... the Shach, yeah, yeah, what he is, he is. The what? Stam maka motzi dam. Stam maka motzi dam. So you don't even know that this is a maka hamotzi dam. You don't know. You don't know if it's a motzi dam. Since stam maka, Rafi's gonna learn, mimeila this one is. And I'm gonna learn, what am I gonna learn? Thank you. That's right. Okay, you see the difference? Don't bother me, don't bother me. You first learn. You see what he's doing? He added to the Shach those words, mistama. It was bothering him. I don't see it. You don't know, so what's the story? Says the Rav Shulchan Aruch, a maka stama is usually motzi dam. So mimeila what, this is a maka motzi dam? He doesn't say that. That's not what Rafi wants it to say. Yachol lihyot, ani lo omer, yachol lihyot, sheRafi yesh lo kav yashir im haMumcheh l'ba'atch. Haba'al hatanya, hu yodea u'mevin, kemo b'Karnaitz, yod'im u'mevinim, yod'im u'mevinim.