Pesachim 99b: The Four Cups for Every Person, Kiddush Al HaKos, and Shomea K’oneh

Transcript

You shouldn't give them less than four kosos. That's a simple question. If you're giving a guy four kosos, what happens to his wife and children? Who said Mishnah is only talking about single people? It's talking about everybody. How can it be, lo yifchasu me'arba kosos? Let's make a cheshbon. ... Put it away, put it away. This you'll have plenty of. ... Why does Tosafos say the word katzat? Pashut, you know why? Because the diuk is not such a strong diuk. You know why? You could come and say, lo yifchasu me'arba kosos, v'chol echad v'echad. How do you know it means lo yifchasu, period? You know, there's no more than four. No more than four for every person. Good? You're giving forty cups. I mean, who said it's so meduyak in the lashon of the Mishnah that you don't give the children? It's not muchrach. Therefore he says only katzat, only katzat mashma. You see? ... Mashma katzat. ... So then what's the diuk then? I don't think the diuk is on the lashon of the four kosos. The diuk is, lo yifchasu lo me'arba kosos. We don't discuss the children. No. In other words, right, the law. The diuk is not on the arba kosos. That's why Tosafos says l'chatchilah it's only mashma katzat, because maybe we'll give to the children also. Besides the diuk of loi, mashma loi v'loi l'banav kilu. That's the diuk of Tosafos. In other words, the diuk of Tosafos is when it says loi, he doesn't discuss the children. And the reason why it's only ktzas is because aba kasav, maybe we can give more than aba kasav. Aba kasav for him, but for the children, we'll give more. You know what I'm saying? All tries things like this. First of all, what's the diuk of Tosafos? So pashut, every person who reads the Tosafos makes the diuk, four kasav, mashma four, nothing else. Truth is, it's not a diuk. You know why? Because it could be four for him, but then for the children, give more. Huh? Whatever, I mean, well, two nights, depends on the night. What do you mean? Two nights, two nights. Okay, no. Each night, depending on the situation. Whatever, I'm telling you, yeah. So again, the question is, why does Tosafos only say ktzas, and what is the diuk of Tosafos? The diuk of Tosafos is mashma that you give four and no more. So then why does it only say mashma ktzas? The teretz is because who said four? Maybe four for him, and for the kids more. So then what was the diuk of Tosafos in the first place? Because it's only two kasavs loi. Vayivchesu lo. What about the children? We should have discussed, hayu tzrichim ladun vledaber al hayeladim. You understood this? Yeah, you hear clearly? Why? Again, the only reason why it's not a complete diuk is because who said four? Maybe four means for him four, but for the children more. That's the answer. Well, four means four each one. Each one. But then what is Tosafos diuk in the first place? Why do we discuss loi? Vayivchesu lo, lo yivchesu. Mazel loi, lo yivchesu. That's right. That was the shakla v'tarya of Tosafos. Loi, why? Because we're discussing him. Why are we discussing only him? Loi v'loi l'banav, that we're not discussing the children. Okay. Says Tosafos. V'hu motzi es kulam b'shelo. And he will be motzi everybody with his. It can be motzi. U'smaro. Says Tosfos, where do I get this from? I think it's a sevara, says Tosfos. Why? D'maishmaa b'kois is mikiddush d'chol hashanah, sheechad motzi es kulam. Why should it be different than Kiddush? So, shaila in Tosfos. The question is going to be, what's the shaychus to Kiddush? What are you talking about, Kiddush? I mean, Kiddush, the pshat is, you have to say Kiddush al hakos. Ma she'ein kein over here, the pshat is you have to drink arba kosos. Can I be motzi you with a maaseh? Can I say that I ate and you ate? A person's going to eat and say, you know what, you ate matzah for me. I think it's in siman lamed ches, in the early simanim. He says, Ha'kan yehei shlichus on tefillin? He says, no, it's b'gufo. It means something that you have to physically do can't be shlichus, right? So Tosfos. So Tosfos says, u'smaro, what's the sevara? We know different than Kiddush. So the first question we have to ask is, what kind of—

As far as this, for Kiddush. L'choira by Kiddush of Shabbos, Kiddush has to be ne'emar al hakos. Mashenkein over here, there's a din, שתי הכוס. You have to drink out of a kos. It's ברור. That's question number one. Question number two is, Tosafos turns around here and says, and maybe by Kiddush ... everybody has to make his own Kiddush too. Tosafos says like this: Who said? Who said maybe ...? Maybe Kiddush also ... needs what? Echad v'echad. Look at Tosafos lashon. U'mihu, gam b'Kiddush shemo, hayah lchol echad kos. Maybe by Kiddush ... every person had a kos. Now what does he mean? I think what he means to say is like this. I mean, they will ask for a kasha. L'choira, what do Tosafos know the metzius? I mean, either people made Kiddush by themselves, or people had everybody have a kos. Each one had his own kos. I mean, what does Tosafos say? Tosafos says, I don't know what I do in my own house. What's mihu yesh lomar? I mean, obviously the Tosafos doesn't know what he did in his own house. He has two types. He doesn't know what's the mihu yesh lomar. The pashut pshat in Tosafos, if you read it carefully, you'll see I'm right. He's not talking about all Kiddushim all year round. He's talking about Kiddush on the night of Pesach. Mihu, l'maaseh we could come and say that the first cup of Kiddush, that cup everybody has his own kos, like we do. There's no raya anymore that Kiddush. What Tosafos wanted to say is, there's no difference between the three and the first cup. That's what Tosafos means. No. What do you mean to say, kol ha'shanah, meaning what's the geder of Kiddush of kol ha'shanah? He's saying it should be no different than Kiddush of kol ha'shanah, which should be no different. The first Kiddush, the first cup. That's what he means, Kiddush. Tosafos means the Kiddush of the night of Pesach should be no different than the rest of Kiddush. Mihu yesh lomar that they taka had a kos the night of Pesach, each one of them. That's the question about the other three. That's the shaila of Tosafos. How do we look at the other three? Says Tosfos, look at the Kiddush. Pshat, if the Kiddush doesn't need, maybe this doesn't need. He's not referring to Kiddush, stam Kiddush in the house is what we make Kiddush. It's a Tosfos would know if they had—Miu they had a cup. What does that mean, miu they had a cup? What does that mean? You don't know what people do. Do they make Kiddush? Does everybody make Kiddush or everybody doesn't make Kiddush? You know the Yekkes have a minhag that every person makes Kiddush. A lot of people have such a minhag. Every person makes Kiddush. Every family. A lot of people have a minhag like that. Some have—We have a minhag, only for the family, especially in Bucharim, only the papa makes Kiddush, right? No, I know, but ... if three chasanim come, each chasan makes for his own family. That's only because they make him feel—That's to feel them. Each one wants to be, you know, I make Kiddush for my family. The shaila was, should each person literally make Kiddush? And where do they come? They point out this Tosfos. There's no ra'ayah from this Tosfos. Tosfos is not talking about all year round. Tosfos is talking about the night of Pesach. Pesach. Ah, and the Ra'avad, he brings back a Pesach. Yeah. ... Gabi Chazya, lahu saba, d'gachin v'shasi. Oh, there's a story in the Gemara later that the person didn't know when Kiddush was supposed to end. The Gemara says he didn't know—a certain tanna went to a certain place, I think maybe it was Rav or something, one of the Tannaim, he didn't remember when it was supposed to end. So he started saying Kiddush, and he was looking around, he was very smart. He wanted to see. All of a sudden he set up the bracha, and an old man bent down to drink. Ah, he knew Kiddush was over. Yeah, because he didn't know when the Kiddush—he didn't know how to make the Kiddush in that place. So, ahu saba, there was no beer. The gochin, he bowed down and he drank. So he chapped that was. So my question is, what's Tosafos bringing a raya from? From Kiddush, no? From regular Kiddush. It means a raya from regular Kiddush. Yeah. Perek Kol Ma'arvin? Yeah, from regular Kiddush. I don't understand this. I don't understand this from Tosafos. Oh, so come, so come. It means the food is that they use regular Kiddush in front of him. The only thing is, I see from... oh, no, it's Kiddush. The problem, I'll tell you what my problem is. You still have a raya, you have to make the Kiddush, you have to drink from the Kiddush. Who made the Kiddush? The Tanna made the Kiddush. Yeah, but what do you see? That you don't have to make Kiddush by yourself. You have to drink maybe from your own kos. That's all you see. Try to each guy had his own kos. But Kiddush, each guy had his own kos, because you see that he was making Kiddush. You know, let's learn the Gemara, very famous Gemara.

First, he wants to say you might not need to, because it's another kiddush, and then he wants to say maybe by kiddush also. Yeah. Oh, so let's see. So, many years ago, huh? Okay. Amar Rabbi Yehuda, bari pri hagafen. In the morning, what's the kiddush in the morning? It's just a borei pri hagafen. Rav Ashi ikla l'mechuza. Rav Ashi went to Mechuza. Amar lei, likdish lan mar kiddusha rabba. That's what I like to call kiddusha rabba. You know why it's called today? Because it's a very small kiddush. All you have to do is make a borei pri hagafen. Havu lei. So they gave it to him. Savar, mai neihu kiddusha rabba? Well, he never heard the word kiddusha rabba. It may sound very scary. Big, ooh, this big kiddush. He didn't know what it was. He only knew a borei pri hagafen. Amar, michti, kola bracha borei pri hagafen. First of all, one thing for sure: a borei pri hagafen I definitely have to make. Okay, I'll start with the borei pri hagafen, I'll see. It's like a Gemara. You have no idea how I enjoy this Gemara. He gave him a kibud, but he didn't know what to do. He didn't know kiddusha rabba. He only knew you make a borei pri hagafen. He didn't know what you're supposed to make. He never heard of kiddusha rabba. So what did he do? So he said like this, listen. And it's interesting, why didn't he ask? You see from here there was a kavod haTorah, maybe. I don't know. He wasn't allowed to ask, maybe. No, very פשוט that he's close. I don't know. Yeah, I gotta say, could be halacha, a talmid's not allowed to ask maybe. I don't know. Because he made a cheshbon, not to ask. Everyone starts with a borei pri hagafen. I'll start with borei pri hagafen, and I'll see. Hashem will help me from there. So he makes the borei pri hagafen. ... So what was happening? Some old man drank. Some old man drank, and soon he made the Borei Pri Hagafen. Ah, this must be the kiddush. Kari anashi chachamei b'raishai. Call out a song if you are very smart. Says Tosfos, you see from here that every person had a cup in front of him. This is a very, very nice vort from Brisker Rav. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful vort. What's pshat in the pshat? If you learn l'maaseh that kiddush, we don't make kiddush by ourselves, right? Either the Gemara brings a very nice raya. Tosfos brings a beautiful raya, the gachin v'lachash, and the teretz could be is very pashut. Brisker Rav was makpid that by Friday night, let's say I make kiddush, do you have to drink from the kos? The din teima. And what's the din teima? Anybody. Teima is anybody. Somebody has to drink from the kos. Technically, I'm not mechuyav to drink. Not every person is mechuyav to drink. By Borei Pri Hagafen, Brisker Rav held in the morning, everybody is mechuyav to drink. Why? Because that's the whole kiddush. What is the kiddush then? Friday night, the kiddush is, zachor... it's a kiddush. It's a bracha, it's a kiddush. So what is the kiddush of Friday night, of Shabbos morning? It's just to drink the wine b'tchilas seudah. That's the whole kiddush. The whole kiddush is just to start the seudah Shabbos b'ofen chashuv. So that's the whole shaila, the birur on the heter. Big machlokes Rishonim Acharonim is: is Kiddush a birchas hamitzvos or is Kiddush a birchas hanehenin? So he learned that Kiddush is more birchas hanehenin Shabbos morning. Friday night it's a birchas ha-mitzvah; Shabbos morning it's a birchas hanehenin. L'maaseh, what happens? L'maaseh, you have to drink—what? Comes along the Brisker Rav's son, the Beryl, and he says to the Papa, This is true that each guy should have to drink a revi'is. If indeed Kiddush is what, you need a revi'is. And the whole Kiddush is the yayin that you drink, so each guy has to drink a revi'is. You know what the Brisker Rav answered him? Don't be such a big mach... You have to drink a revi'is Shabbos morning. Ever since the son asked him the kasha, there's no raya anymore to the night. Could be garchin melachos is by day because the pshat is each guy has to drink. This is stam, I'm pointing out. First we're talking about raya, then we're talking about regel. Then I'm pointing out to you, I l'maaseh, Tosafos brings a beautiful raya that each guy had his own kos. So how come we don't make our own kos? Teretz is, it's talking about Kiddush Rabbah there, talking about Shabbos morning. Stam, we're two different things. We're asking on Tosafos, and then we're asking l'maaseh if it's true that you don't drink l'maaseh, what do you do with Tosafos' raya? I'm telling you, Tosafos' raya is because it's Kiddush Rabbah. Kiddush Rabbah is a different halacha. You know what this is megaleh also? By Seder Kiddushin, you make a borei pri...

The mesader kiddushin makes two brachot. What? Yeah, but he makes a borei pri hagafen, right? He doesn't drink. Mesader kiddushin doesn't drink. I make a borei pri hagafen and you drink. I don't drink at all. I don't drink. The mesader kiddushin doesn't drink at all. This is very famous. In Europe they spoke a lot about this, and I told you this: if you learn to birchas hamitzvos and a chanan is not a problem. But if you learn to birchas הנהנין, you have to drink. So they say over there, Reb Chaim was very makpid, used to spill from the cup on his hand. And then he would lick it off his hand like this. You should be yotzei, it shouldn't be a bracha levatalah. Because he was choshesh maybe it's a birchas hanehenin. A lot of times you have a borei pri hagafen, it's just there, like by Kiddush, like I explained to you by Kiddush. Friday night's Kiddush is a birchas hamitzvos. You have to make Kiddush al hakos, so you do it with the borei pri hagafen. And the child tracks. So according to this, it's not good. You see from the Gemara, the Gemara says, the gachin velachash. Every person had to drink. It wasn't good enough for one person to drink. Who can give me a pashut teretz? Who can give me a pashut teretz to the kashya of the Gemara, that the whole Gemara is not a kashya in the first place? This guy had a kos before. Who said? No. We'll make a cheshbon. When you're sitting at one table, when you're sitting at one table with your family, right? So why do they have a safek if it's birchas hanehenin or if it's birchas hamitzvah? That's not a kashya. They didn't know what they wanted him to say. They didn't know what they wanted. It's not a kashya. He thought they wanted him to say more, so he started off like this and he started, and he drank. No, but if you see that everybody has a cup, so then it's only birchas hanehenin. Who said? Maybe you have to say something else also on the birchas hanehenin. It's not a kashya. Comes along here, comes along Tyson, brings a raya from this. I don't think it's such a big raya. You ever see when a person makes a kiddush Shabbos morning, right? Each guy stands there with his schnapps and his kichel, right? You ever see? Right? And his cake, whatever he's holding, right? His zonos. Why is he drinking the schnapps? He's drinking the schnapps because he wants to be yotzei kiddush, or he's drinking the schnapps because he wants to drink, no? Who said the kois is there for kiddush reason? Maybe each guy had his own drinking. Maybe everybody prepared a cup of wine for themselves. Yeah. And who says it was a full cup of wine? I don't know what Tyson wants בכלל. How do you know it was a full cup and each guy had his own cup? They drank wine. What's the beer? They were sitting at kiddush and they were drinking wine. Who? The kiddush. Here was the kiddush and each guy was drinking from his own cup. I don't see a Tyson. No, yeah, I'm saying, technically it could have been a Pepsi, I don't know, whatever was in the cup. Yeah, but what do you want to say? The guy, the guy, he drank. What do you want from him? It's not a pashut shaila Tyson. Simple, it's not a pashut question. Tyson brings a raya that each guy had his own kois for kiddush. Each guy was standing prepared. You know, you ever buy a kiddush? Mechinim it, chas v'shalom, if you touch it, this guy is... he's standing with his... he's waiting for the guy to drink kiddush. Ah, there's nothing to do with kiddush. This is why he's drinking, he's drinking, this is his drink, his schnapps. I don't see the Tyson. I don't get Tyson. Each guy had a kois in front of him. Who said he had a kois? Maybe it was a little schnapps cup. I mean, how does Tyson know what was there? You want to tell me? I'm matzmi on Tyson. I'm poshut matzmi on Tyson. Tell me, you think they drank soda in those days? They drank wine in those days. So what's the kashya? Because it was a bari pegam. Obviously, I made the bari pegam, and he drank. He drank. That's Chazal. Chayei. We learn from a pasuk, l'cheira al yayin. It's drash of a Chacham on the pasuk. No, no, no, l'cheira al yayin. It's a davar chashuv. Wine is chashuv, l'cheira al yayin. Pashut, pashut kashya. This guy bent down to drink. He was drinking his drink. What do you want from the guy? But how do you know? I don't care about Tyson. What is Tyson saying already?

Postar says this: Does each guy have four kosos? So we spoke about the diyuk from the Mishnah. Lo, not lo, do we give him or we give? Okay, that's Tosfos. It says Tosfos is a svara. What's the svara? The svara is it should be no different than what? Than Kiddush. So first of all, pointing out, what does it mean by Kiddush? Kiddush of that night. When you make Kiddush that night, does every guy have his own kos? No. So who says everybody? Maybe just like I make Kiddush and I drink and I'm motzi everybody, so too, arba kosos, I drink and I'm motzi everybody. That's what Tosfos wants to prove, maybe not. No, Tosfos wants to say, so maybe it's no different than the other kosos. That's the question that we're asking. Maybe it is different. Our question is maybe a daled kosos is different, that maybe Pesach night is different. Right? It's Kiddush, right? That's the question. Tosfos says not that way. Tosfos, let's prove from Kiddush. That's the question that we're asking. The hakrafah is what we're asking. How does Tosfos know from Kiddush? Kiddush is a different halacha. What do you want from Kiddush? Also you have to drink by Kiddush. That's the question. Okay, yes? Yeah? Are you with me? Are you with me today? You'll see why I don't want to bunch them together, because the truth is they have to be bunched together. If you understand it better this way, ask it this way. Maybe one and three is different. Okay. Comes along Tosfos, you hear? And it says like this: Ve'oid, de'amar b'Gemara, hiskemu l'batel me'bei, so yatza. If let's say he gives from the daled kosos... These children, it's good. V'hu d'shasa ruba d'kasa. As long as he drank רוב of the kos. משמע דהם יצאו בשמיעה. It's mashma that they were yotzei with the shemiah. Why? D'b'gina ruba d'kasa. In order to be yotzei, you would have to have a whole, a rov of a kos. They don't have rov of a kos; you have it. So then who made the kiddush, and who made the hagadah, whatever it was, or the birchas hamazon? You did it. You can't just drink a little bit and say, Oh, I have kiddush. So who are you being yotzei with, obviously? Obviously being yotzei with what? With the baal habayis. V'od, ... I skipped something. Who? Oh, give Mr. wine. V'od. V'od, ... and also it says hiskah. Hiskah means if he did do it. What do you mean, if? Do you have to do it or you don't have to do it? Mashma they didn't even give him the rule. Mashma from the Gemara, hiskah, if he did do this, mashma not mechuyav to do it. If. Mashma regilus that you don't even give him to drink. Here, arba kosos, I make it and they don't even make it at all. Says Tosafos, no. ... It's talking about a case where they take out their own, and you still give them from yours. They have their own, and you're still giving them from yours. ... hiskah ... it's like I gave my family as long as I have rov kos. The chiddush is not the children anymore. The chiddush now is me. Tosafos understood the chiddush is the children. Kovach b'lo, the children have their own kais. So what's the chiddush? Meaning, as long as I drank rev kais, it's good enough. Hiskamehem is a chiddush that even though I drank rev kais. Okay. Hagam min shatah is very difficult. Why does it just say he drank rev kais? What happened to the story? This is the chiddush to the children. You say hiskamehem, buttom they base. Then you learn that the chiddush is that you could drink only rev kais and say rev kais. All right. No, they have their own kaises, Tais. That's Tais's chiddush. They have their own kais. Okay. So then Tais says like this: Inami, b'bonav uvnei beiso ketanim. It's talking about that they're very small children, shelo higi'u l'chinuch. They're not הגיעו לחינוך, and since they're not הגיעו לחינוך, therefore they takan don't need wine, like we'll see in the Gemara. Ay, what about his wife? It says, bonav uvnei beiso. No. Tais says, ay, what about the wife? It says, Tais, v'ein ishto bichlal. Ishto is not included, right? If you take a look, ayin brachos kaf daled, Tais dibur hamaschil matani. Let's see right here, Rabbi Akiva Eiger, anyway. What's that, ein ishto bichlal? That she's included with his shtiyah. That's what means ein ishto bichlal, like by menorah, Chanukah. They don't have to light his own menorah. As long as I light, she's included in my act of lighting. Ein ishto bichlal. Okay. So what about the— yeah, the Tais maybe.

No, the eishes is בכלל, she's not included. What do you mean she's not included? In this hiskabel ... she's not included. I try, she does it with the husband, I'm telling you. No, but she's yotzei with the husband. What do you mean? It's so different. I mean, min ha'iroso, so what? Min ha'iro... what do you mean? She patur, so we said ... Okay. U'mihu, b'Gemara mashma tzarich kol echad arba kos. So Tosafos is saying maybe, again, you see this whole Tosafos is back and forth: yes, maybe, maybe not, maybe yes. That's this Tosafos. The question is what was the maybe yes and what was the maybe not? What's the kiddush yes and what's the kiddush not? I mean, he doesn't explain why. He just goes back and forth, ping-ponging: yes, no, yes no, maybe yes, maybe no. But he never explains the why. U'mihu, b'Gemara mashma shetzarich kol echad arba kos. The ma'aseh is mashma in the Gemara that each one does need arba kos. D'tani: hakol chayavin b'arba kosos, echad nashim v'echad tinok... Ah, tinok? Amar רבי יהודה, מאי טעמא? סתם תינוק is b'ayin. רבי יהודה says, what does a child have from drinking wine? He has nothing from it. Mashma, to l'tana kama tzarich kos afilu tinokes. You see, according to the Tana Kama, he does need his own kos, and he can't be motzi with what yotzei with his father. Yesh... says Tosafos, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. When it says hakol chayavin b'arba kosos doesn't mean arba kosos. You know what it means? It means something else. Arba kosos, says Tosafos, lishmoa birchas arba kosos ka'amar. He's mechuyav to hear from the father the bracha of the arba kosos. Okay, so what was the question of Rabbi Yehuda then? Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. U'mishum chinuch, and the chiyuv would be because of chinuch. Kids, it says, Taisis, v'nir l'hachmir, v'nir l'hachmir, ul'hatzchar b'kol echad, that even the children, everybody needs a machmir, and somebody who is already machmir, you see it's not the chiyuv chiyuv, but a machmir. Tzarich l'hizaher shelo yehei kosom pagum. It shouldn't be a kos pagum. It shouldn't be, for the children, you shouldn't come and give them a kos pagum. D'amar b'Gemara, tamai. If you taste the pagum, you ruin the kos. ... If you hold you're mechuyav, then of course you can't have tamos coming pagum. You know, there's a very famous Ritva. People don't know this. When you give a child a chinuch set for a lulav and an esrog, could be pasul l'kach, that's kosher. You need to know that you can't give a lemon and say, Oh, it's chinuch. No, it's pasul. It's not kosher. The Ritva says it has to be the mitzvah that's mechanech chinuch. You can't give a pasul. It's a chiyuv now of chinuch. What do you mean, you can't give a pasul? It's famous Rishonim. It's famous open Rishonim. People think, and people don't know this, people give a pasul lulav to a child. You don't give a pasul lulav to a child. Why not? Because he's mechuyav, mitam chinuch now. Whatever it is, but you're mechuyav to do the mitzvah, mitam chinuch. Whatever it is, but you have to do the mitzvah. Whatever it is. Okay, both. The father, the father. The father, the father. The son, the son. Whatever it is, but it's... You're missing the point. If let's say the father is mechuyav and the child can be mechanech him, right? But I have to mechanech him with the real thing. That doesn't make a difference. You see, that's the whole point. Ritvos don't learn like that. Ritvos, Anashim to'im b'zeh. People say, Oh, he's learning the lesson anyway. It doesn't make a difference. But now he's a chuyiv in the mitzvah, b'tamchinu. They have to do the mitzvah. You can't do a pasul mitzvah. People don't know this. It's a famous response, very famous, with this mitzvah now. Of course. You know, you want to know something? It's a very big lesson in chinuch. People don't know this. You can't fool a child. I didn't say you have to buy him clothes, but not necessary. You're adding. That's some bar pakumrus, you know. They buy the child the mehuderdik esrog, you know. But it has to be kosher. What's pshat Tosafos here? If you're machmir, if you hold you have to be machmir, make sure it's not a kosher pasul. What's the chiddush? If it's a kosher pasul, you didn't have anything. Okay, so let's chazer quickly the question, and then I'll tell you over the Brisker Rav. Question, Tosafos says, yet children not...

Okay, so we spoke about the ksat, not ksat mashma. Okay, good. So Tosfos says it's a svara. What's a svara? The maishna, what? Yes, I think then it becomes each guy is called loi. Each guy comes with his own thing. Yeah, no, that's simple. Each kid comes give me, and then, I mean, if he's 17, he's not a kid anymore. If he's 13, he's not a child anymore. So then he becomes loi. He comes to collect. Each child says, listen, that's called loi. That's for me, each guy. Why does Tosfos discuss the difference between 13... Okay, so let's hear. Again, so the first thing I want to tell you is, we spoke good. We spoke good about the diyuk in the Tosfos. Lo, aba katzot, the sefarot are not clear in the Tosfos. Why? The Tosfos on one hand says it's domeh to kiddush, and then he himself turns around and says maybe by kiddush, both of you would need. I mean, how did that change? Maybe it's domeh to kiddush, and then Tosfos, maybe kiddush itself. Then Tosfos comes along and says that we're talking about the ketanim, you hear? And then he says, so then what's the pshat? Chayavim u'shmoya. What do you mean, u'shmoya? What does that mean? Aba katzot, this u'shmoya, birchas aba kais, what would that mean? What was the hava amina? If you're mechuyiv in arba kosos, the chiyuv would be lishmoa birchas arba kosos. But you'd have to hear the Borei Pri Hagafen and Birchas Hamazon. I mean, what is he talking about? At the end, Tosafos says even if you're machmir, you have to do it, you should make sure it shouldn't be a kos pagum. What is that all about? I mean, if you have to do it, then you have to do it. The guy's gonna come and say, you know what? You're mechuyiv in arba kosos? Don't do it by drinking four cups of Pepsi Cola. I mean, what was the hava amina? You gotta do what you gotta do. Kos pagum is not a kos. So I want to tell you over, there's a gevaldige Brisker Rav over here, very important Brisker Rav. Brisker Rav says like this. Oh. Kosos eilu me'ayin. Yeah. Oh. Okay, you know what, we'll start from here maybe. Says the Brisker Rav, it's muchach that there's two parts to arba kosos. Heinu, the Tosafos, he brings our Tosafos, and he brings the Tosafos and he says like this: וכבר שמעתי מאמור הגאון זצל שטעם על דברי התוספות, דמה ענין ארבע כוסות לקידוש כל השנה? What's the connection? Which is the kasha I asked you. How could Tosafos compare kiddush by arba kosos? Arba kosos you have to drink. Arba kosos you have to drink. Mashenkein over here, the mitzvah is to make kiddush al hakos, and this you have to drink the cup is only a special halacha, bizayon for the cup of kiddush. What else is it? Arba kosos is kiddush, and hagadah, and the Birchas Hamazon, and the Hallel. I'm saying that's the kasha. Drinking, to drink it derech cheirus. Says like this, beautiful vort. He says, like, the hachsamat mitzvah bracha, and that's ikar kiddush. U'bezeh v'din l'shomea k'oneh, aval b'koses, d'ikar zeh shtiyah. V'hichiach mizeh d'sfira l'haTosafos, says Reb Chaim, you see from here, d'gam b'arba kosos ein ikar mitzvah b'shtiyas hakosos, rak b'bracha shel hakos. You see from Tosafos, you must say that arba kosos is just like what? Just like kiddush. V'havi mamash dugmas kiddush b'chol hashanah, b'chol kos shel bracha, akan baruch. V'chein hu muchrach gam midivrei haGra. Says the Brisker Rav, the words of my father, Reb Chaim, are muchrach from the Gra in Shulchan Aruch, siman yud-reish ayin aleph, se'if yud-daled. Hadi isha sham, puktas harasha l'Tosafos b'kos shel kiddush.

If two people drink, could be mitztaref l'mloi lugmav. Maybe ... l'shitas Rosh, ... ... Daf kuf ches, v'hu d'asti ruba d'kasa, af al gav d'binei bei shisha sha'ah. So yesh omrim, right, tzrichin lihu v'koi kulam yachad. Harei mevuar mi'divrei haגר״א, l'man d'leis lei shtiyah shtayim mitztarefes, gam b'koses din kein. If you hold that shtiyah shtayim is not mitztaref by kiddush, where's the raya from Pesach night? By Pesach you have to drink. The Teretz is, you don't have to drink. You don't have to drink. Shtiyah shtayim mitztarefes. Oh. No, he says that obviously you see Tosafos, you see the Gra learns this way also. What? By what? By the Arba Kosos? Okay, it's a good ... brisker ... The shiur, that's a whole long brisker ... I want to tell you—what? I'm sorry, what's your kasha? Okay, I'm going to answer Tosafos. First of all, slowly. So firstly, you see one yesod from here, that by shtiyas Arba Kosos there's a halacha of derech cheirus, there's a halacha of derech cheirus, meaning that hagam, technically I would have thought that you have to drink the ... kos, kamashma lan that as long as you have the bracha al hakos is good enough. The Brisker Rav had a very big chumra because of this. The Haggadah of the Brisker Rav is brought down that he used to hold the cup the entire Haggadah. Why? Because the same way kiddush is al hakos, this is not gadol al hakos. The way the Reb Chaim learns, it's not the shtiyas hakos; it's the bracha al hakos. So the truth is, we taka do this. I don't know if you know, before you make Asher Galanu, Asher Ge'alanu, when we make the bracha itself, we taka pick up the kos. We pick up the kos. The pshat is, technically we were supposed to do the Haggadah, but the Brisker Rav used to hold the Haggadah. I mean, it takes a Brisker to do it. He used to hold the Haggadah like this. He would hold the kos. Then he had another chumra. Whenever he would spill, that tzaf chadash, bachav, write the makos, he wouldn't spill from the kos. He would take a separate kos. Why? Because since he wants that the yayin, the Haggadah should be nemer al hakos, so he didn't want to take away from that kos and then add on extra later. Why? Because that extra wasn't nemer al hakos; the whole Haggadah wasn't nemer al hakos anymore. So it's a major chiddush. Yeah, so the pashut you have to learn it's al hakos. It's not the actual wine, but that was his chumra. His chumra was that since it's not pshat that you have to drink the arba kosos, the pshat is the Haggadah has to be nemer al hakos, so maybe he didn't want that this wine that he's in, didn't have Haggadah on it. Most of the Haggadah wasn't said on it, so he would spill from a different cup. He would spill. Why? Because it is wine. It has a din of wine al hakos. Okay. Listen, we can't do it. We're not holding by it. No, it's good enough. Yeah? Sure, it's good enough. Let's say if I make kiddush. Yeah, let's say if I make kiddush. Because you want to take a bite tefillah, if you lean on something, it's not called amidah. You want to know if this is not called... Yeah, I understand, but could you lean your hand on the... Yeah, why not? Again, to pshat in the Tosafos is beautiful. Now let's talk about this. Taisis comes along here and says like this. Maybe, just like by Kiddush, one person has Kiddush and the rest drink, says Reb Chaim, what's the pshat in that? Because maybe there's no din of drinking by daled kosos. So now what does Taisis turn around and say? Maybe by Kiddush. What's the havamina now that by Kiddush, that each guy had his own kos? What's the pshat in that? I'll tell you a mefurashdikah vort. Shomea k'oneh. How does shomea k'oneh work? There's a machlokes in the poskim how shomea k'oneh works. Either shomea k'oneh is the pshat, the words are misyaches to me, or me and you become like the same person. Shomea k'oneh means that the dibbur, the words become my words, like I actually spoke. The question is, what's that halacha? Is that you can say it for me, or you can do it and I'm yotzei with you? Could either way. So the question by Megillah, what's the pshat?

It's like with USA, or it's like you and me are saying the same thing. You don't need that. You don't have to. Stamucha, because it's just since you read it mitoch haksav, so I have a reading mitoch haksav. Because I'm him. That's good. If I'm not him, I can't have. That's me. That's how the chazan was in the pasuk. I'll explain to you what I mean. Ready? I'll explain to you what I mean. There's a very famous Beis Halevi that speaks about an interesting halacha. Interesting halacha. A kohen who has to make birchas kohanim, the halacha is he shouldn't daven for the amud. Why shouldn't he daven for the amud? Because shema yitbalbel and he won't be able to be chozer to the tefillah, from the birchas kohanim to the tefillah, from the birchas kohanim to the tefillah. Today we pasken, since we have siddurim anyway, so there's no problem. There's no such problem. Comes along the Beis Halevi and asks a simple question: You're about tefillah. You're a kohen. You want to daven. The halacha is better not to daven. You know what? You daven and send this other guy to be a shliach. Why? No, tell the other kohen, Kohen, you're going up anyway. Be my shliach to make birchas kohanim to the other people. Why can't I send a shliach? That's the same. You... that's a different word. Why can't I? That's a chumrah. That's a maaseh. Can I come and daven and not say birchas kohanim and tell him to say for me? Oh, bring me a maitzeh. That's not telling. That's the Beis Halevi. It's the Beis Halevi. It's in the Beis Halevi, back in the Chumash. What's the maaseh? It's a maaseh. Kiddush, I make Kiddush twice. When I'm being motzi you in Kiddush, I say it twice: zachor, zachor, Yom HaShabbos, Yom HaShabbos, l'katchilah, l'katchilah. I say it once and I'm motzi; me and you together. Like I say, me and you are yotzei with it. Maybe it's Beis Halevi. Kiddush is the same thing. Here's the same thing, amirah. You have to say the Kiddush. Amirah is you have to say the Kiddush. So there's a very famous Beis Halevi. Famous Beis Halevi. Says the Beis Halevi, ah... You know why? Good, everybody do it, do it. Good. I'm saying, but I'm talking in a case where the guy has no choice. The guy is down for the amud. Halachically, a kohen should not daven for the amud. Says the Beis Halevi, why not? Says the Shliach, finished. That's all. What's the big deal? That's been hagging custom. You said it for me. Why not? The pasuk says clearly I have to make kiddush. Can I send somebody else to do it? The pasuk says I have to read the Megillah. Can I send someone else to do it for me? Very good, speaking lomdus, yeah. Comes along the Beis Halevi. A little bit different. Comes along the Beis Halevi, yeah, and says the Beis Halevi that you know what the answer is? Very pashut. Since there's a din of kol rom, kol rom, right, halacha that the kohen has to say in a loud voice, that you won't have the shlichus. The words you'll have with the kol rom, you won't have. Everybody, I remember in Brisk, used to... kol rom. He brings up the kol rom. Brisk. This I was zoche to hear in Brisk. They say that the Beis Halevi wasn't written properly. That's not what he meant. He didn't mean kol rom and you can't give over kol rom. Emor lahem. It's a special halacha that it's not just I have to say it. I have to say it, me to you. Someone else cannot hear it from me, even though I'm hearing it without trying. I said it, but I never said it to you because I never said it. You said it through here. Think about it. Think about it. I said it. But can you come and say I said it to you? That, that you don't have. This is interesting. This is interesting. Betalei, this is me and someone else. Oh, totally silent. If you learn the pshat is those words is like my words, then I... But if it's like me and him are the same, if he has the emor lahem, then I have the emor lahem. You know where all this conversation I just told you comes from? The Chazon Ish speaks about it in our... Says Chazon Ish, that's the...

When you make kiddush, you need kiddush has to be al ha-kos. So if you learn that my words are your words, but I still don't have al ha-kos. But if you learn me, you become the same, so whatever actions you did, you did it al ha-kos, I have al ha-kos too. Because me, because I'm yotzei with you. I'm not yotzei me. Because I'm yotzei with you. You did kiddush, it's me and you are shluchim. Shlucho shel adam k'moso. ... That they speak about it, because that speaks to the kohein. No, tefillin is different. Tefillin pshat is it has to be on my guf. That's the same thing. It's on my guf. This is the famous Chazon Ish, and it comes from this. Again, any posek—this is yeshunos, sifriyah, not halacha l'maaseh—any posek knows, shomea k'oneh. What is shomea k'oneh? So the machlokes Chazon Ish discussed this at great length, and there's rayos hen v'hefuch. And you want to know something? Hundreds of people before the Chazon Ish speak about it. Hundreds. But the Chazon Ish speaks about it afterwards. Shomea oneh or shomea k'oneh? Shomea means me and you have become shluchim. Means your act is my act, we're one. Or the pshat is shomea k'oneh. I could use your—you're telling me, I could use. I use your words to be yotzei with them. Comes along the Chazon Ish, that's the shakla v'tarya of Tosfos. If you learn shomea k'oneh means that I mean you become one, so then the kos, you did al ha-kos, it's good enough for me too. But if the pshat is, Shema Koin, I use your words. Yeah, but I don't have your maiseh. I don't have your emor l'hem. That's what the Beis HaLevi meant. It's very simple. If the pshat is when I say Kiddush and I hear it, it's as if I said the Kiddush. Yeah, but I didn't say it al hakos. It's very nice, it's very nice, but the act of al hakos wasn't there. It's like someone ... the Kiddush, the emor l'hem. It goes like this: the words could be misyaches to me, but the maisim that were done during these words are not misyaches. Why not? How? Also because if you learn shlichus. If you learn that it's a shliach, that's right. That's what the Chasam wants to know. How do you learn Shema Koin of Kiddush? Shema Koin of Kiddush means you make Kiddush and I'm yotzei with your Kiddush. Or pshat is, me and you are making Kiddush together. We both make Kiddush by you making Kiddush. You're my shliach, you're my ... shlucha shel adam k'moso. My hand is your hand, my words are your words. But ... I understand how this works. Or the pshat is no. Shema Koin means I could use your Kiddush to be yotzei. Yeah, but not al hakos. It's a very nice Kiddush, beautiful. He's saying, it's good of you, but you're not doing my thing. But you're not doing it al hakos. You said those words. It's very nice. You said ... that's right. That's right. But that's right. Simcha always says it good. Amen means I agree, I have those words, but I don't have the maisim of those words. It's very good. You said ... You said all that. You said it. Yeah, but you didn't say al hakos. Says Tosafos, you'll need a kos for what? Kol echad v'echad. You need each guy to have a kos, kol echad v'echad. Because you need maiseh ... That's what Tosafos is trying to prove. This is Tosafos by Kiddush. Tosafos starts off saying like this: maybe I have a kois like Kiddush. And then Tosafos turns around and says maybe even by Kiddush you need al hakois. So here, safek is a safek shemea kois. How does it work in hilchos shemea kois? Problem with this is, if you really want to be an emes, it really comes out that Tosafos is talking about two different sugyas. First Tosafos wants to know in Hilchos daled kosos that there's no din shtiyah, but there's a din bracha. And then first Tosafos turns around and says, and maybe there's a safek by Kiddush, let it be a separate Tosafos. According to this it's two different sugyas. You want to know maybe is Kiddush shtiyah takas or amiras hakiddush al hakois, and then you have a safek by Kiddush now in Hilchos Kiddush shemea kois. Tosafos's mashma, it's one shakla vetarya.

Part of the Chazon Ish learns, it comes out that the question is always like this: Kiddush — I'm sorry, daled kosos. Daled kosos is a question: do I have to drink, or the bracha is good enough? And then I turn around and I have a safek by Kiddush, a separate sugya. How does shemea koneh work by Kiddush? So there's already the original question. I believe that that's not pashut. I would have learned pashut. You know what I would think pshat in Tosfos is? Like this. I'm saying, it's very difficult to learn that Kiddush is a new sugya of shomea koneh. I think what Tosfos is saying is a much deeper yesod. What Tosfos is saying is like this: the din of shtiyah — if you look at the Avi Ezri, I don't remember why, but I think the Avi Ezri says the same yesod about this shaila. So the shaila: how much you have to drink. Kiddush is one din shtiyah and the daled kosos is different din shtiyah. So the Avi Ezri asks for a kasha: compare to Kiddush, how come they have different halachos? One is rov kos, and one is melo lugmav. I think that's Rav Shach. Rav Shach has the question: if it's the same halacha like Kiddush, how could by Kiddush be a din of shtiyah melo lugmav, or you have to drink melo lugmav, mashenkein by Kiddush, mashenkein by daled kosos there's a din of rov kos? If you're learning that it's the same halacha, how can it be different? Yes, so that's a special halacha in how to do the Kiddush. That's already a difference. But the question is in the Kiddush itself. If you're comparing it, saying it's the same halacha, why is this a din shtiyah of melo lugmav and this a din shtiyah of rov kos? That's the same as kashya. Rav Shach asks for a kashya. Okay, you know what I think the pashut pshat is? I think the pashut pshat is like this. There's no question that there's a din shtiyah also. There's no question. A guy can't come and say, you know, I don't have to drink the daled kosos, and the Brisker proved it. If let's say I took all the four kosos and I put it together, my yotzei? No. If a guy went and took one kos and made all the brachos, Kiddush and Hallel and everything, would he be yotzei? This is the Brisker Rav. The Brisker Rav speaks about it. Gemara says clearly not yotzei, right? Shasah bvas achas, you're only yotzei one kos. So you drank the amount of chapter three, right? You drank how much you have to drink, but you didn't have separate kais. There's no question you have to drink four kais. It's out of the question. No question about it. What's the pshat? Pshat's like this. What creates the daled kosos? That's the halacha of the bracha al hakos. What creates the daled kosos? What makes this into daled kosos? The bracha al hakos makes it into daled kosos. The Hallel on it makes it into a kos, into a daled kos. Now there's a special halacha of how to drink the daled kosos. There's a shiur called rov kos. That's the din of the shiur of daled kosos. By kiddush, how much you have to drink of the kos of kiddush, that's מהו. There's no question that the yesod of the din shetiyah is created from the din of daled kosos. In other words, there's a din daled kosos, and there's a chiyuv to drink those daled kosos. So Tosafos begins like this: When we talk about daled kosos, how does it start? Does it start with the bracha, or does it start with the din shetiyah? It starts with the bracha, and that compares it to what? To kiddush. That's what Tosafos means. Tosafos is saying like this: If it was stam to drink, there would be no comparison to kiddush. This is where Rav Chaim says, no, it starts with the halacha of what? Of arba kosos, meaning there's a din bracha to make a bracha, say Hallel על ד' הכוס. Then the question becomes, says Tosafos, maybe by kiddush gufa there's a special halacha that also you have to have a kos. What's the pshat? Meaning, it's not a safek in shema ka'ina now. It's a safek in the bracha, meaning what creates a bracha al hakos? Bracha al hakos is— The ikker is the bracha and al hakos like a bircha. What is the special halacha of bracha al hakos now? In other words, in order for it to be a birchas kiddush, you would taka need the bracha, and you would taka need the al hakos. So there would never be a halacha anymore that I could have the yotzei somebody else's kiddush. Because it's not enough to just have the bracha al hakos. It has to be a kos shel kiddush now. There's a new halacha called kos shel kiddush.

In other words, it's not a sevara of shemei koneh anymore. It's a sevara pashut: what's called birchas kiddush, just like there's a halacha of birchas al hakos, meaning I have to say the hagafen, and now the kos becomes what? A cheftza of daled kosos, and there's halachos, I have to drink those daled kosos. There's now something called kos shel kiddush. Not just the kiddush is al hakos. Meaning, it begins with the bracha. It begins with the bracha. Avada it begins with the bracha. But what's the pshat? It's not just that the bracha has to be on the cup. There's a halacha that there has to be kos shel kiddush. There's a halacha that you have to have— It's not the kos of kiddush. It's bracha al hakos, but it's not birchas kiddush. Kiddush, Chazal were mesaken that there's a tzurah to kiddush. That's the Tosafos's kashya. That's exactly it. Meaning, now that we already learned zachreihu al hayayin, what's the pshat? All you need is a zachreihu that should be al hayayin, and now there's something called kiddush. Now there's something called kiddush. Huh? It's not going to help you anything on shemei koneh. It doesn't help you shemei koneh because it's not anymore the bracha. The shayla is, according to Chazal, what is shemei koneh? I'm telling you, even shemei koneh means I have the ma'aseh al hakos. I have that. But that's not enough, because it's not the pshat that you need this al hakos. You need kaish kiddush. You need whatever was created out of it. That's right. You need the kaish kiddush. You don't have that by Shemeih Kaina. What you have is maybe that you said the kiddush. You might even have that you said the kiddush on a cup. But l'maaseh, you don't have kiddush. Machlokes, you didn't do kiddush. You said kiddush, but you didn't do kiddush. That's the word. That's what I'm looking for. You said kiddush. You didn't make kiddush. That's what—write these words down. You said kiddush, but you didn't make kiddush. Huh? That's what I'm trying to tell you, because Tosfos starts off like this: I have a kais, maybe I have a kais like kiddush. So Chaim tells me, what do you mean? You have to drink arba kosos. You don't have to drink arba kosos, right? Obviously not, right? You'll see later in the Mishnah, I'm going to make you copies of it. That's not true. You have to drink it. The Mishnah says clearly two things. So I'm explaining to you like this. Then Tosfos turns around and says, well maybe by kiddush, gufa, you have to drink for one reason, for Shemeih Kaina. So what's two different Tosfos over here? It's two different sugyas. What are you bothering him? It's like you're mixing in two different sugyas. First of all, you want to know that you have to drink kiddush. One, it's just like kiddush. And then Tosfos, maybe by kiddush it's a separate sugya now. By kiddush, give the yaitzei with somebody else. You know, Tosfos should have asked this a pashut kiddush. You know what this Tosfos should have been? Zocher, ... the yaitzei with somebody else kiddush. See, why is it in the context of Pesach? That's the kasha. That's the kasha. Why is this Tosfos here? You know what this Tosfos should have been? On the Gemara in Shabbos. When the Gemara in Shabbos is ... That's what I thought of it. We're talking about Pesach kiddush, and what's the pshat? The raya is— Because it becomes a cheftza of a kos shel kiddush. It becomes one of the daled kosos. It's not stam kos kiddush al hayayin. It becomes like it's one of the daled kosos. That's why I told you I want to bunch them together. Because he's trying to prove from regular kiddush. Tosfos says like, let's say daled kosos. ... you see that the first kos, unless stam a kos meaning kiddush al hakos, it becomes the first one of the arba kosos. It takes on the shem kos shel kiddush, and that's one of the daled kosos. The same sugya. Okay, let me say this. ... What's the question now? When Chachamim said that, what did they say? The act of kiddush has to be done al hayayin, or now there's something called making kiddush? There's a ceremony called making kiddush. ... mitzvah. So ... kiddush. ... v'im ani lo ya'aseh ...

You don't say kiddush. You make kiddush. There's a cheftza now called kiddush. It's a ceremony now. If you don't did it, you didn't do what Chazal metaken. You didn't do what Chazal metaken. You want to know how far it goes? I'll tell you how far it goes. I'll tell you how far it goes. That's the fact with taanis. Amirah. Tosafos says amirah, and therefore I can be yotzei his amirah. Any kiddush you cannot be yotzei then comes out. That's Tosafos says. Right, right. I'm saying that's Tosafos, right. We talk about what Tosafos writes. Then Tosafos comes along and says, comes along Tosafos and says that maybe they're not mechuyav more than the bracha. What's the pshat? Tosafos is like the Brisker Rav; it's gevaldik, because since the whole yesod of it is what? Is the bracha. Don't start with the kos. Start with the bracha. And since they don't have the yayin because they're tainois, they're not reason to drink, so at least let them have the bracha without the thing. Tosafos says, v'nirah l'hachmir. What's the v'nirah l'hachmir? That you should do the asiyah of the koses, and Tosafos says, and you should do it even which makes sure you should be makpid on kos pagum. So actually, the kasha: what's the shakla v'tarya of kos pagum? Tosafos says our kos should be good enough. It didn't make a difference. What's the din of kos pagum? In which halacha is there a problem of kos pagum? It didn't appear. It's a din that you didn't drink a kos. It's not al ha'yayin. You don't need kos pagum. There's no problem of kos pagum. Kos pagum is a din in the shtiyas hakos. I drank from a kos which wasn't a right stirah. But you have to be ... bring a kos. Maybe you don't have to be makpid on kos pasul. Why לאחמי גם על זה? Because the etzem, I want to be makpid and say that it's דין in the kos. L'chatchilah, it's a din in the bracha. Now that we made the bracha על הכוס, so now it's a din kos now. So maybe we'll make halacha k'vaas of kos pasul. Kos pasul is not din in yayin; it's a din in kos. Who says it's a kos? Who said the word kos? על היין — did you see one word of על היין? Think about it. זכרה על היין. You know what? Put it in my hand. I'll take the bottle, you know, זכרה על היין. I'll take the bottle of wine. Take the whole book. Where does it say I have a kos? That's chacham already. Put it on a plate. Any point to the Torah, it makes no difference. Think about it. זכרה על היין. You know what? Here's a book. Avraham! It's not a din in the kos anyway. But just to say it, to say על הכוס — who says what? Let it be a kos pasul. Who cares? מעיד, מעיד, פשט, שטam kos. Again. That's right. That's right. That's the whole question. When they made the תנאים, what happened now? They said that there's no kiddush without it. You know, Reb Akiva Eiger has a whole shailah if you're yotzei kiddush Friday night if I say good Shabbos. ... If you say good Shabbos, what? ... Why? Because min haTorah you could be yotzei by just saying good Shabbos. Shailah is, what's ...? Even ... ... The teretz is, once the Rabbanan — that's the shailah — once the Rabbanan came and said kiddush al היין, there's no way to be yotzei de'oraisa unless you do על היין. I know. This way, once the chachamim came and said this is the way — exactly, exactly — once they said this is the way to do it, this is the way to do it now. That's the shaila of kois. The shaila of kois always was, now that there became along with din of a kois, is there now a special din now of kois for Kiddush? Is there a special halacha of kois, a daled kosos? Yeah, something. You drink a lot of kosos, even on the bread, I'm saying. No, but that's again the... Exactly. There was... The difference is this is not me'din. It's from... There is a din of sachas Kiddush in accordance to Rabbeinu Yonah. Ulai. I mean, this is clear by Kiddush it's definitely that way. By Kiddush it is, they're saying that you're not yotzei any other way. This is the way you have to do. There's a kiddush. If you didn't make Kiddush, you didn't make it. What is the din of kos pagum? Kos pagum has nothing to do with the amirah al hayayin. This is a special din in the chachamim's halachos, shtiyas hakos.

It's not cold. It's not cold, but this kois. Stam kiddush. He's saying by night you have to drink, right? You have to give somebody, right? And you can do b'koshagum. No, ta'am. Yes, because somebody has to drink it. Somebody has to drink it, whatever it is. Whoever has to drink it — I'm saying whoever has to make kiddush al hakois cannot make al hakois. Why? Because it's a bizayon for the kos kiddush. Chachamim misaken — it's a bizayon for the kos. This is not a kos kiddush, right? For the kos of kiddush. And now, if you learn that kos of kiddush is lav davka to the kiddush, then ... what's pashut? But if you learn — yeah, so pashut, whatever your problem is, you want to ... Now, I'm saying, so now what? I mean, what do you want? Do the kiddush. It becomes one. Yeah, it becomes the kos. The kos becomes the chelek of the kiddush. The kos becomes the chelek of the kiddush. Okay, let's do one more time. Where's Avraham? Avraham, sit down. This is special for you. Sit down. It's a little tired today. Okay, let's start again. Pashut, pashut. Now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make you copies. You should learn the Brisker. You should really do it. It's the most famous — I mean, there's not a child in yeshiva who doesn't know this Brisker. I'm serious. There's not any guy who ever walked into yeshiva who doesn't know this Brisker. Make a copy and learn it on your own free time. We might still do it later on when we get to the sugya, if we ever get there, by this sugya. You put it together. It starts over here. It starts over here. Tell me clearly, what's Tosfos? If I ask you question number one, what's Tosfos's first diyuk? Lo nafik. What's the diyuk of Tosfos? Lo nafik. Therefore your answer — ah, because of the lo, right? Because if it's ... you'll say for him ... but why say leichasu lo? Lama lo nafik b'cheshbon ... So Tosafos says, you see from here that you didn't give the choice. Question: What's the first question? What's the pshat? Tosafos says just like kiddush. Svara. What's the svara? It's just like kiddush. I don't want to talk about kiddush. Here is a mitzvah to drink, and here is a mitzvah to make kiddush al hakos. So what's the teretz to that? Tosafos says you see from here, big yesod. Even the arba kosos, what's the halacha? The way we explain, it starts. What does it start with? Create it from—bracha al hakos. That's what it is. Hagadah al hakos. Hallel al hakos. It's like a kiddush. It begins with kiddush. That's how it begins. The kiddush is al hakos. It all begins with the bracha al hakos. Okay. We came along and said then Tosafos turns around and says maybe kiddush goes also for every guy. So Chazon Ish explains, what's the question? Shema kaina. Shema kaina, does it mean I have the act? Could be I have the kiddush, but who says I have the al hakos? We said that no, the problem with that is that it comes in two sugyas. That means two different—I mean Tosafos is like kiddush, and then maybe kiddush. This one, separate sugya. Why is this Tosafos not, you know, where? It's kiddush. Why is the Tosafos not Shabbos? Let's discuss kiddush. Maybe somebody else kiddush. We said like this. Tosafos later on explains that the child maybe only has what? The child only has the bracha without the kos. What is that? How can you have the bracha without the kos? Then Tosafos says, and now that we're machmir that everybody has their own kos, shelo yehei kos pagum. And what's the halacha? What's the halacha? You should make it, you should do yotzei the mitzvah properly. What does that mean? We said pshat like this. The way everything begins is, it's a kos al—it's a bracha al hakos. That's clear, right? Now the question is, what happens now that they will be taken al hakos? Is there now halacha called kos shel daled kosos? And the answer is yes. And how do I prove it? Because you see the din shtiah of our different halachos. One is the din shtiah of rov kos, and one is the din shtiah of what? Melo lugmav. It's clear. So why did Tosafos come and say, you know what, they're not comparable? Hachi compare, because here you see there's different halachos. And you know what the answer is? The answer is that once it became daled kosos, then the halacha is, you know how you mekayem daled kosos shtiah? Through rov kos. You know how you mekayem the din shtiah of kos kiddush? Melo lugmav. And the truth is, it's deeper than that. What's the reason for the daled kosos? It's cheirus. So Chazal kaveya—I once said this—Chazal kaveya the shtiah lefi the chiyuv of the mitzvah. Since this is for cheirus reasons, the kovea shtiah of rov kos. Here it's only a din of what? Latchilah asudah al hayayin. So any shtiah mespekes is...

Good enough already also. But look, look, it's good enough. But look, look, it's good enough. But look, I drank. I drank something. Shetiti yayin b'tchilas hasudah. See the difference? Okay. Me'eila, certainly much more. Rav Kaiv. Good, so then the secher, but if it's nav, I'm saying, is that halachah? What is Rav Kaiv? Me'eila, that's what Tosafos discusses. Says Tosafos, maybe by davar kais, since the yesod of the mitzvah is not the shtiyas hakos, but rather the yesod of the mitzvah is what? The bracha al hakos. So where the child can have the bracha without the kos, because he doesn't need the kos, he can be yotzei with the shemiah of the bracha itself. Once we're knocking away the din of al hakos, so me'eila all he's left is what? With the shemiah. So he can be yotzei with somebody else's shemiah. And Tosafos knows the eshlahacham they should have a kos. So the havah amina is what? Maybe you don't need a kos. There's no problem of kos pasul. Why? Because maybe it's just a din she'al hakos. When it's al hakos, then there's halachah of pasul. Haytachi al hayayin. If there's a special halachah in kos, there's no chisaron in the etzem mitzvah if it's pasul. It's just a problem in the kos shel kiddush. But if you learn there's a halachah of kos, so davar kos is, or there's a halachah of kos shel kiddush, so then pasul is a chisaron in the kiddush already. Then pasul is a chisaron in the davar kiddush already. You don't have davar kiddush anymore. If it's stam to have it al hayayin, then pasul wouldn't be a problem. But if it's al hayayin and now the kos becomes a chelek of the mitzvah, then the pasul means I didn't have the mitzvah. Says Tosafos, therefore, v'nihyeh l'hachmir. You better be careful. Once we say in this chidush that there is a halacha of kais, then you have to be careful to make sure it's not pogem anymore. Tosafos is learning maybe there's no din of kais bichlal, maybe there's a din ala yayin. And kais would pogem is stam halachic, yotzei bizayon. Okay, so for the child it's not. What are you talking about? Tosafos is bichlalish. Shema she'll be yotzei with this ishtakegufa, the same as like by menorah, ishtakegufa. Okay? Okay, tomorrow ... So it's the same halacha, then he becomes a gavra. So then he becomes a gavra. He becomes an own gavra. What do you mean, his own chiyuv kiddush? Only by nisuch. Only by nisuch you can do that. Nisuch, ishtakegufa. If it's midin shlichus, I'm telling you. Yeah, okay, whatever it is, ishtakegufa. Time shlichus, ishtakegufa. It's even more. ... And this is only by Shabbos and Yom Tov, says the Gemara, because a person's kovea seudaso al hayayin, so therefore what? The bracha of the yayin betchila patters the whole meal already. Says the Gemara, vShmuel amar, Shmuel says, afilu kiddush lo yatza. You're not yotzei kiddush either. Why not? Because you need kiddush b'makom seudah. Says Rashi, vim kidesh, right, vlo yasad, lo yatza yedei kiddush. Because the problem is, you don't have kiddush b'makom seudah. Let's say you eat seudah over there. You good, same kiddush. Okay, so that's if you drink a reviis. One second. That's a shita in the Magen Avraham. That's already halacha after this Gemara. Now, k'lal, we have a machlokes here. The first man damar says that you're yotzei the kiddush, and the second man damar says you're not yotzei the kiddush. Kiddush b'makom seudah. Comes out that the first man damar is mashma that you don't hold kiddush b'makom seudah. Well, seudah is a shtach that says it's not true, that even the first man damar holds kiddush b'makom seudah. We'll see, we'll see. But al kol panim, this is pashut in the Gemara. Okay. Oisam bnei adam, who are we referring to? Who are the oisam bnei adam? Ah, so pashut he says the people that do kiddush in the shul, right? So the Rishonim, example, the Maharam Chalavah, the Rosh, the Talmidei Rashba, they all ask the same question: how could they be yotzei if they didn't drink from kiddush at all? There's a halacha of ta'am mekadesh payim. You have to drink. The whole shul, the whole shul drank the kiddush. The whole shul. Who said the whole shul drank the kiddush?

Every Shabbos night, they make Baruch Atah, right in the shuls they make kiddush. ... When you walk into a Young Israel, one person drinks and that's it. Nobody else drinks. The truth is, you do. You have to see the Gemara. So let me show you. Osam bnei adam shekinshu b'veis haknesses, right? Ami kai u'medaber, osam bnei adam. Who is it referring to, osam bnei adam? Who are those people that there's a machlokes if they're yotzei or not? So says the Rambam Chalava, says the Rambam Chalava, says the Rambam Chalava that the pshat is that what? It's referring to all the people. Says the Rambam Chalava on this, but the question is, the Gemara says clearly, hamekadeish, if he's ta'amei, yatza; lo ta'am, lo yatza. Let's see the Gemara, Kuf Zayin. He brings the Gemara, Kuf Zayin. Yes, that's true, but now we're talking about the kiddush of the laila. We're talking about the kiddush of the laila. The kiddush of laila, because that's what it is. B'veis haknesses they used to make kiddush by laila. Okay, so let's see the Gemara, Kuf Zayin. Im lav, lo yatza. Hamekadeish v'ta'am, yatza; lo ta'am, lo yatza, v'hachi hilchesa, says the Rashbam. Huh? What do you mean? Who says they were? Who says they were? Let's go slowly, let's go slowly. Again, the Rambam Chalava comes and says, osam bnei adam. Who is the osam bnei adam referring to? Says the Rambam Chalava that who is it? Osam bnei adam are the people in the shul, you hear? Pashut means the people in the shul. Says the Rambam Chalava, how could the people in the shul be yotzei? If they never drank, it says clearly that you need... because it's not anybody drank. Why not? I mean, let's see it. I have a question. I'm forgiving hefer everybody. You have one cup and... You don't think everybody drank. You know what it is? You never saw the minhag, that's why you don't realize it. The minhag, in the younger years, they do it. He gives little kids to drink. Oh, that's why. Why not? ... Right? Who has to drink? The mekadesh has to drink. But all the people, says ... don't have to drink, right? ... because they didn't have enough in the wine of Kiddush to give every poor person to drink. ... like you said, like the chassidim, each guy has his own cup. ... Right? Right? Or maybe they gave everybody out. Lo imamti lei vadai. Afilu teima de-mamti lehu, lahu kasa lekulei bnei bei knishta, lo imamti lei vadai. Aha, it's not for sure, though. V'afilu hachi, amar רבי יוחנן: אפילו יין נמי לא יצאו. Kol shekein ידי קידוש. Aha. He's saying it's not for sure. That's what he's trying to say. You can't be guaranteed that everybody would get. So how could they talk clearly, yedei yatzu v'lo yatzu? Depends if they drank of the drink. In other words, let it come and say, okay, those that drank it, those that didn't drink.

The teretz is obviously no, it doesn't make a difference if you drank enough. This is Rav Chalav, okay? Good? No, he's trying to say is—no, he's trying to say if everybody drank, so then what's the shita that holds yedei yayin lo yatza? Yeah, maybe because they didn't drink enough, maybe. Because they didn't מספיק. That's why. Sometimes they pass the cup between each one so you can be to'eim. Even if they're to'eim, because they didn't מספיק. It's mashma from Rashi that even if they would be to'eim... But his kashya is, why does Rabbi Yochanan say that you're not yotzei kiddush, eino yotzei kiddush, aylma if you drank, so then you should be yotzei kiddush because you have a makom seudah of the drinking. Because... the less makom seudah, kulei... Rabbi Yochanan... lav dika amran. Okay, this we want to say back and forth. All right, this is Rav Chalav. Okay, good. You ready? So let's answer question number one. Question number one: oisa midei... If you see in the Rishonim, the Rishonim want to say that everybody—which Rishonim? You see from Rav Chalav, he tries to say that it's everybody. What's the kashya on it? The kashya on it is, but they didn't taste. And I saw you have to taste. So the teretz is, gimel, shedavka mekadesh bo yeshi. If you look at the Rashbam, he says the same thing in the Gemara over there, that the mekadesh, the mekadesh has to drink. Huh? The Ramchalavah says it clearly. Here's the Ramchalavah says, and if you look at the Rashbam, he learns the Gemara like that over there. Over there, kulam zayin. When the Gemara says, ha'mekadesh, the mekadesh tzarich sheyitaym, but not kol echad v'hamesubin. How did it come into Pesachim? How did it come into Pesachim? Why is the sugya of Kiddush over here? You wanna... Kiddush of Pesach night is de'oraisa. No, that's what I'm trying to say, but l'maaseh the ikar sugya is Kiddush. Huh? Yes. Okay. Kiddush Pesach night, you want to make a beis haknesses. You didn't make Kiddush b'veis haknesses. You needed a dollar kosos. You didn't make b'veis haknesses. Yeah, yeah, okay. So part of this is teretz number one. Teretz number one, that who has to make, who has to taste. So I have to taste the wine to be kasher. Let me ask you a kasha. That's ... I don't understand something. If you learn that the other guy didn't taste the wine, so what happened to the ...? I don't understand. Well, how am I yotzei? What's even the shakla v'tarya there? Yayin yotzei, it is shelo yatza. Kiddush only, not the wine. So why do you say al ta'ei k'mekaymai? I never had a borei pri hagafen; the other guy drank. I had kiddush, not the wine. Okay, but I didn't have a borei pri hagafen; the other guy drank. What does that have to do with ...? Excuse me, you don't have wine because you don't have ... Can I come and say like this: I'll make a borei pri hagafen, you don't have to drink, it's good enough for you? No. Yes, yes, you can say that. No. What's the harmony that you can drink later? You can say ... Otam bnei adam. We're not jumping over. Otam bnei adam. What about other people? Says the ... Chalav, you know who the people are? Not the mekadesh, but otam bnei adam means everybody in the shul. Says the ... question, says the ... question, I don't understand. So how could you be yotzei if you didn't drink? Says the ... and the Rashbam says it over there also on that Gemara, and who says you have to drink? As long as the mekadesh drinks, it's good enough. So we'll get talking about it. Again. No, otam bnei adam means the people in the shul. Why'd you say everybody? Why'd you say otam bnei adam? We'll talk about it, we'll talk about it. We'll see. Comes along, you hear, comes along the ... and he says this teretz, that only the mekadesh has to drink. My question to you is, what is the Gemara have a tzad that who's yotzei and who's not yotzei? Says the Gemara, yedei yayin lo yatzu, meaning when he goes to his house. He's a kid. He doesn't even have the, you know, here either. He doesn't have the [unclear] over here either. What's the [unclear]? I don't understand. If I want to drink wine.

Right now, I don't think another boy ... technically. Yeah, but I wasn't—I don't have a boy ... at all. Why am I saying because of hesch hadas? I wasn't telling him anything. It wasn't chal on anything, the boy ... Yeah, but I wasn't chal on anything. I didn't taste anything over here. I'm telling you, he had better reasons. So say I wasn't—there's no boy ... at all. I didn't drink. But I didn't. The Rishonim say I didn't taste. No, I mean to say it's or al kaponim b'yotzi with that bracha, fine. But I wasn't yotzei that bracha; I didn't drink. That's your kasha, right? Why are we claring about hesch hadas? The bracha wasn't chal on anything. Let's see the teretz of the meiri. It comes from the meiri. That oisa bnei adam is not referring to the people in the shul. Oisa bnei adam is referring to the mekadesh, those people who make kiddush. Those people who are making kiddush, and they're drinking l'maaseh because they're the ones who are making kiddush. Otam bnei adam, they're talking about—those people who are making kiddush, and everybody else not a shaylah. That's how the meiri learns. Otam bnei adam. He says like this. Says the meiri two reasons. How do I know this? The first reason he says I know it because of the lashon, otam bnei adam. Those people. It's like a certain group, yeah, and a certain group not. I mean everybody in the shul, no? If everybody's there, everybody's there, right? Otam means referring—otam, those that made the kiddush here, and those that's— Okay, shekitzu means that they made the kiddush. Now, pas shekitzu means they were trying to hear the kiddush. It says no, it's דווקא shekitzu, the ones that made the kiddush. And that's happening to me, we learn. Now, so I bring you over here: Mahu yesod divrei haMeiri, lamah hein bnuyim? The answer is, halashon otam bnei adam. It's based on the lashon of otam bnei adam, mashma lkula. Mashma is a group. So I want you to know there's two things that I think you have to know in pshat. There's a very interesting Chasam Sofer that asks this question: What's the otam bnei adam? Say, the shul, the people in the shul. What's otam? I mean, everybody made kiddush. Says the Chasam Sofer, you see from here that the minhagim were talui then also, not every shul made. Otam bnei adam means those shuls that did it, not all shuls made. Yeah, yeah, whatever it was. Yeah, whatever it was, whatever it was, the minhagim, there's different shuls. The Chasam Sofer says, the otam bnei adam meaning, what's bothering him? The Meiri's diyuk. The Meiri makes a diyuk: otam bnei adam, lama katuv otam? Those groups of shuls, the shuls, those shuls that make. Otam bnei adam, yeah, you with me? Okay. What's the second thing? The second thing I want to tell you. The truth is, I don't understand the whole thing. I mean, if you read the Gemara, pashut pshat, you know what otam bnei adam means? The people don't want to be yotzei with the kiddush. Yeah, I mean, you think every guy in shul, everybody left. What do you think, most people left? Yeah, I'm saying they ran out. What do you think, everybody stayed for kiddush? People ran out, people were talking. Otam bnei adam means the people in the makom to be yotzei with kiddush. I don't understand the big thing, Rishonim. You see the Meiri's bothered by the kasha, otam bnei adam. I mean, there was people in the shul that weren't interested in being yotzei with the kiddush. Not everybody wants to be yotzei. Otam bnei adam shekitzu bveis haknesses means that they were mechaven to the kiddush. Not everybody wants to be. I'm trying to tell you, the question is not—what's the shaylah of the Rishonim and the Chasam Sofer, why it says otam bnei adam? Yeah, because not everybody wants to be yotzei with the shul; they went home. But, that's why it's otam. Otam means those aniyim. Why should the shul be only aniyim? Why should the whole shul be aniyim? You have a shul of aniyim. You know, they used to have in Europe, I don't know if you know that, the shuls where the people were all the same. There was the shuster shul, there was the chlayster, the—huh? The shuster means the shoemaker shul. Then they had the blacksmith, the cahanim shuls, they had this. In Europe, the shuls were, you know, all the kohanim stuck together. I'm telling you, it's a famous thing. The what? Yeah, I'm telling you, in Europe they used to have this. In Europe they used to have that they used to stick together. So why does the whole shul be aniyim? Otam, bnei adam.

People who want to be yotzei the Kiddush, huh? ... Friday night, very good. Who goes to shul Friday night? Only the poor people. The rich people stay home. Ah, yeah. Al kol panim, guys, you hear? Truthfully, if I had to write over the Gemara, that's how I would write it. ... those people that stay for the Kiddush, not everybody stays for the Kiddush. Not everybody wants to be yotzei the Kiddush. Most people said, I don't need it. I don't know. The Meiri makes a diyuk in some sefer, I don't know, it's not such a big ... There's a pashut pshat without the diyuk. I'm not telling you pshat. I'm learning how to read. ... it's those people that stood for the Kiddush. Not everybody stood, not everybody paid attention to it. A lot of people were outside talking already by Kiddush. Who needed it? They didn't need it. You're missing the point. I'm trying to tell you, ... the Rishonim want to know, who are these people? Why does he use such a lashon? So the Chatam Sofer says, you see from here that not all the shuls did it. It's ... means those shuls that did it. The Meiri says ... means דווקא the people who were making the Kiddush. No, he's just trying to say, because the question is, should we medayek from this thing, sometimes should we medayek from here that you should make Kiddush in the shuls Friday night? Yeah, the question, Chasam Sofer wants to know in minhag. Maybe there's a mekor from the Gemara you should make Kiddush. Same, because of this Gemara. It's based on this Gemara. Says the Chatam Sofer, lahalacha it's not so muchach from the Gemara, because all the Gemara says is ... Obviously you see not everybody did it. But it's a very nice Chatam Sofer. Yeah, there's no reason for it, because they hold there's no reason for it. Not Friday night. Not Friday night. No such thing as Friday night cake. Yeah, I'm saying the question is, should every shul do it? Says the Chasam Sofer, in Shulchan Aruch it says you should do it. Why does Shulchan Aruch say you should do it? Because of this Gemara. Says the Chasam Sofer, if you read the words of the Gemara, it's not muchrach that you have to do it. There are shuls that do it and shuls that don't do it. That's what you see from the Gemara. Meaning, he's being medayek the lashon of the Meiri. The Rishonim's question: why say al Tam bnei adam? So the Rishonim give a teretz, al Tam bnei adam, because it's referring to the Mikdash. The Chasam Sofer says, no, it's referring to the whole shul, but it's certain shuls. And I'm telling you the whole kashya is not such a big kashya in the first place. Why? Al Tam bnei adam, because not everybody paid attention to the kiddush. No, but I mean, most people went home. What do they need the kiddush for? They went home. Al Tam bnei adam. It's not a question about if you should or not, what you should do. Because there's people that want to do kiddush Friday night; you have to do it for them. Who says I have to do for them? I have to make in shul kiddush, go make your own kiddush. Good, take the wine and make kiddush; what do you want from me? Why do I have to make a ceremony in the shul to make kiddush? Yeah, but—do you know what? Do you know what? They don't have wine, they don't have the ... to do kiddush. Yeah, but why would I make kiddush in a shul? I mean, you're not even yotzei with the kiddush in the shul. Don't you understand the problem? The problem is he wants to even better. You're missing the whole point. Should a shul today make kiddush in the shul? Today nobody needs it. Should I make the kiddush anyway? So if the minhag was to make kiddush, in case, in case, then you make it anyway. Fact question of learning: you don't have to make kiddush for people to learn. It's not a lesson. It's not a— Because for him the problem is kiddush makom seudah anyway, is to make another kiddush. And he says why: ... Orchim. I, l'maaseh, we don't have it today. Go ahead, Baran, go ahead. Lo batla atakana. Zehu taam mekomot ha... Gemara. ... Avu yoter tov. ... That's the... That's the... Chatam sofer, oisim bnei adam. You see that it's not everybody. ... This... ... Chatam Sofer, this Gemara. Now you understand what the Chatam Sofer wants. But you see, even then it was ... bnei adam ... But it's ... even then it was.