Hilchos Borer: Sorting Silverware, Taking Items Stam, and Clearing the Shabbos Table

Transcript

So, give silverware. So first, let's do the basic clarification of what is silverware. Everybody knows what spoons are? Okay. Everybody knows what forks are? Good. I hope everybody knows what knives are. Stam, for little children, spoons and forks, but by your age already you should know what knives are too. But that's not the issue. The issue maybe is about bigger spoons and smaller spoons, bigger forks, smaller forks. That makes it more complicated. And I want you to know that I'm the only one that does it. Now, when the Acharonim bring the sugya, there's forks and spoons and knives, and the borer is between the forks, the spoons, and the knives. I would like to— No, no, the question is borer, not with, the borer of, which means when they're all mixed up together. I want to start gribbling one step. Yes. Big piece of fish to a small— Exactly. So he knows. You say the shiur. This is a meat fork, and this is a— it's the same piece of fish; it's just got one bigger. Did you see anybody ever say anything like that? I never learned. Okay, okay. Nobody ever says that, but why not? Why not? I don't— it's so poshut. It's like, come on, all the— please. What's the new thing? But I was born one day after them. Okay, come on. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's what we're gonna— that's— how do you know? That's exactly what we're gonna do tonight. The modern farm. Modern farm cases. Okay. So let's discuss, like I said, spoons, knives— spoons, forks, knives. Bigger spoons, bigger— smaller spoons, bigger forks, smaller forks, right? Fish forks and meat forks. Okay. What's the shaylah? The shailah is like this. A, are you allowed to select spoons from forks? Okay, that's the very, and that's the sefarim to talk about. If you want a spoon, yeah. Let's say, no, if I want the spoon for later, it's never an issue, but if it's the other way around. Let's say I want to put, I want to take a spoon and put it away. I want to take a spoon and put it away. I'm picking out a spoon and putting it back into the compartment. Or I want to set the table for later, so it's a l'achar zman. So the question is, is that called borer? I take a spoon to set a table, but the table's not for now. Yeah. So of course we're going to talk about that. If the olam waits, everything will become clear. We're going to talk about all these cases. But you know what the trick of the shiur is? To give you in 45 minutes the whole sugya. That's really the trick of the shiur. It has to be that I have to get down to the bottom, give you the basis in a way that it's a capsule, and then you can chap the whole sugya quickly and then you can move on. Okay. The third part of the shailah, I guess, we would discuss is clean spoons from dirty spoons, or the reverse, dirty spoons from clean spoons, right? Which, for example, is taking away from the table. Let's say you have a bunch of spoons on the table. One of them is dirty. You want to take off the spoon and bring it back to the sink, right? So sometimes one spoon didn't wash well. You have a bunch of spoons. Is that called borer? So these are the three shailos, okay? Now, let's begin the sugya with the Rambam. This is the haschalah of the sugya. Rambam, se'if gimmel says that there's halachah: hagaosh shnei minei dagrim, mikri shnei minei ochlin. Two types of fish are called shnei minim ochel, v'asur livror echad mechaveiroi ela b'yad, כדי לאכול מיד, אף על פי שהחתיכות גדולות, וחל אחת ניכרת בפני עצמה. אבל כל שהוא מין אחד, אף על פי שבורר חתיכות גדולות וקטנות, לא מיקרי ברירה. ואפילו אם היו שני מינים, which is something, rabosai, I don't think the oilam knows so well this part of the Rama, even if it was two minim, u'borer mishneihem b'yachad ha'gedolos מתוך הקטנות, which means he's not makpid on the min; he's just makpid on bigs and smalls. Which means he takes all the bigs out of all the smalls, or all the smalls out of all the bigs, and he's taking, let's say, in our case, forks and knives together, right? Not makpid on the min; it's also not breirah. Breirah is minim. Okay, so we don't care big and small; it has to be breiras minim. Okay. So l'choirah, rabosai, let's begin by clarifying: is silverware one min? That's the first shailah that we have to address. L'choirah, you could come and say, You're right, it's a spoon, it's a fork, and it's a—yeah, but chicken is chicken, right? So there's chicken top, and there's chicken bottom, and there's chicken leg, and there's—

But it's all chicken, right? Oh, so exactly what I'm trying to say. So l'choira, the first thing we have to say, possibly, that silverware is shnei minim dagim, right? Dag is dag, fish is fish, right? A carp. Would you say that a carp and a white fish is considered more shtei minim than a spoon and a fork? Maybe, yeah. I don't know. Maybe, maybe. That's a great question. And you want to know something? I see it's going to be a hot, hot night. No, I see already. I see in my mind that it's going to turn heated here very, very soon. Because, you see, I'm knocking off the whole hanachah. I'm not even so sure the whole thing begins. Huh? First of all, if it would talk about in Shulchan Aruch or in the Mishnah Berurah about silverware, you got me. There's no Mishnah Berurah about silverware, so I have the right to say whatever I want. There's no Mishnah Berurah, all right? And there's no Aruch HaShulchan about silverware. So then I could come and say, you know something? Maybe silverware is all silverware: a spoon, a fork. Would you compare it to shnei minim dagim? Not necessarily. What's the tzad? In svara, I could hear it's not so pashut. Shnei minim dagim is actually two different types of things. Silverware is silverware. It's all within the— you don't buy whitefish separate and carp separate, but you don't buy a fork without a spoon, without a knife. It comes together, a set. It's silverware, all right? Forks, knives. When you walk into a store, do you come and say, Give me fish, or you give me carp? Or give me whitefish. And if you ask for whitefish, you don't get carp. If you ask for carp, you don't get whitefish. They're sold separately. No, but silverware could be one thing. People don't sell one spoon. So I'm asking. So, Rabbi Yamin, I hear that side, but you see a talmid chacham, a genius, sits on the other side of the table and says differently than you. So you see, after... I feel, again, you know what the yesod of a pasuk is? One min. One min. But why is it even fish? The Gemara in Sukkah לגבי lulav, which has nothing to do with... Right, therefore goes by what the Torah calls it to affect... Yeah, but I'm not saying it's not even a min. It's one min. I hear your side also. I just said maybe. Okay. All I'm trying to say is they both make sense. Say by sefarim, there's no borer, no borer by sefarim. Exactly. That's exactly what I said. You have four volumes of Chazon Ish, and you took out one from the others. They're borer? We said no. Good, but it's because it's one set. Clothing, clothing. The point, the point being, listen to the point. The point is, all I'm trying to say is efshar. Think, think, think. Okay, come with me. A shirt and pants. We have to go... A shirt and pants is borer. A shirt, pants, shorts, socks, they're all clothing. Shirts are bought separately and pants are bought separately. If you want pajamas, you buy together. I don't know. I don't know. It's a nice... Okay, rabosai, enough pilpul. Let's move next. Okay. I also want to say an interesting chsvara, that minei ochlim—come, come, Yitzi—minei ochlim, minei ochlim could be, doesn't need much difference. Because you see, even tops and bottoms, and then we find by ochlim, which is the real breirah, that anything turns into shtei minim. That almost anything turns into shtei minim. In other words, could be by ochel, shnei minei ochlim. So since there's by ochlim psoles, so whatever I want to eat becomes ochel, afukei psoles, the minim don't have to be completely separate minim. Anything which there's a difference becomes shtei minim. Could be by begadim and by keilim, the difference of to make it shtei minim has to be more bolet. What about codes? They say that it's byer by codes. Who says it? I don't know. They say. Who's they? When you tell me who they is, then I'll— Exactly. Okay, let's move on. All I did was just, I shot a hole into the— That's right. So you know how I could read that Mishnah Berurah, by the way? Kasvu Acharonim.

So that's the kal davar, or it's the shtei minim. How do you read that Mishnah Berurah? Chaldavar, it's going on b'chaldavar. Oh, so that's what you say, maybe it's shtei minim. Rabbi Taisha, b'chaldavar. I know what I did, I know, and I have the right to be chozer. Either kasvu Acharonim, duvadim b'chaldavar k'sheim shtei minim, kal davar, which is keilim u'bgadim, or shtei minim, keilim u'bgadim. So you look at those Acharonim. Go search the Acharonim. Rabbi told the sevara that pri megadim, that Acharonim was a pri megadim. Okay, let's go weiter. Let me tell you something. I know exactly how much I have to say on every nekudah, and it's overload. All I want to do is—there is no— the other side is to go weiter. The point is, the point is that I'm just telling you that if you learn enough of Hilchos borer, you get the feeling that by ochel it takes very little to make shtei minim an issur borer, while by chafetzim the minim have to be shtei minim. And therefore by silverware, I don't know, spoons and forks could be two parts to the same silverware. Let's move on. Now, another shaila: fish forks, meat forks, soup spoons, dessert spoons. Which means even in the spoons, like I told you, we could clear. Halacha l'maaseh, in Acharonim, Acharonim say there is a problem with silverware, and therefore they're going to tell you to be borer l'alter, which means the one that you need. You need a fork, take the fork, and it has to be for l'alter. What about when a person wants to be borer— And to leave it, so you have a problem, l'choira. So here the Acharonim come with innovations, with interesting ways on how, because otherwise, otherwise you have problems. So the first thing is, before Moshe, you talk about that, that's such a complicated thing, what you just said. You have to start with the Taz. It's called heter ha-Taz. That's the way it's brought down in Acharonim, the heter, the Taz. The Taz in seif katan beis throws an interesting heter. Borer is when I choose, but if I stam take, there's no problem. Borer is when I choose. So therefore, if I just take one, I took a spoon. I didn't choose to take the spoon and put it away. I stam, I pick up a silverware, and now I'm holding it in my hand. We'll soon see what you're allowed to do with that, but the fact that I didn't pick, I didn't select, I just happened to have chosen a spoon. It happened to be that the thing I took in my hand is a spoon. It's the seif katan beis, the Taz. Okay, for example, I want to put away sefarim. That was the case. I want to put away sefarim, so all I do is I take the first sefer. Oh, I didn't pick the sefer. I picked the first one that was there. You mentioned that before. We spoke about it. We spoke about this, right? Okay, so that's the Taz. You have it? You want to read the Taz inside? So the end of seif katan beis, the end. It's a long one. It's all the way at the end. It's towards the end of seif katan beis. Okay. Yes, so read it. How can you say that on the line? What's up? No, can I tell you, I'm surprised that on the line, it's one of the biggest Tazes, one of the biggest Tazim borer is this. Maybe it was such a davar pashut. Oh, davar pashut. Okay, go ahead, yeah. Go ahead, now on the line. Maybe I was so busy underlining everything else. Okay, okay, so let's hear. Maybe now that I underlined so much, the part that's not underlined is... Okay, go ahead. Okay, כיון דיש כאן... אפילו במין אחד, ולא גבר אפילו במין אחד, אפילו גדולות מתוך קטנות. Okay, continue. רק מה שהוא רוצה לאכול עתה. Okay. What you should do, right? Or another eitzah: o sheyikach stam min haba b'yado. Okay, that's it. Remember those words: yikach stam min haba b'yado, okay? He's snuck it in there. You want to know something? I never knew if it's halachah l'Moshe miSinai. Mishnah Berurah doesn't bring it. Mishnah Berurah does not bring it. So do we pasken maybe? Maybe we don't pasken like this Taz. Maybe we don't pasken. I don't know. Mishnah Berurah doesn't bring it, okay? So this Taz, se'if katan beis, it's one of the most famous Tazs. It's like a—this is it. You want to talk about boirer? This is it. Like, kech stam becomes mutar. The shailah is, what happens now that I'm like kech stam? What could you do with it? Can I put it away? Because now I'm putting away a spoon. Again, no. Now I'm being boirer. Boirer means that I selected it, the spoon, b'davka. So when I took it, you're right.

I picked it up, it was stamah. But now that I'm mevarer it, I'm putting it away in the compartment of the spoons, so then I was mevarer. Let's say I take stamah from the spoons and I put it on the table. So right now I have a spoon on the table. So what is the Taz letting you do? What is the Taz letting you do? Maybe the Taz is just—okay, you know what? Let's just tell you how the Velt says it. The Velt uses now Reb Shlomo Zalman's chiddush. Reb Shlomo Zalman says, now that it's in your hand, now you can put it away and do whatever you want, which is really what we've touched on by the sefarim. So this is in the Mishmeres Shabbos, Hilchos, perek gimmel, se'ifayin ches. The problem with this is that it's a mistake. It's a very, very big mistake, and I'll tell you why. Reb Shlomo Zalman is not talking about where I picked it up stamah and therefore now I'm putting it away. Reb Shlomo Zalman is talking about I picked it up to use it, and now I want to put it away. For example, if I take, let's say, a spoon and I wipe the spoon. Now that I wiped the spoon, I could go put it back. I took out a spoon stamah. I wiped the spoon, so I was mishtamesh with the spoon. I did something. But just to pick out stamah and put it away, that's a joke. Isn't that saying borer? Isn't that another way of being borer? What, because I didn't look at it? So you borer it later. But you are selecting. Yeah, the trick is, I don't care. Of course I care. I found the spoon and I put it away. I was thinking it should be worse than if you were borer for the seudah and you had leftovers. Maybe, maybe not. But it's zicher not a raya for Reb Shlomo Zalman's psak. Reb Shlomo Zalman's story— Case of the taz is that you take stam and you use it. You take stam. The case of the taz is not you're putting it away. The case of the taz is that you're using it. The case of the taz is you're using it. And then the ... is right. Once you use it, you can do what you want with it. A proof from the teshuvos of the Rosh Yeshiva ... that's the real pshat. What was the ... chiddush? Nothing. He's saying a valid ... he's passing like the taz. He's taking a good ... No, he's taking a different ... because here the pshat is I'm using it. Now the chiddush is I could go and be ... it. He's saying once it's already in your hand, b'heter, so it's not a ta'aroves anymore. Once it's in your hand b'heter for hishtamshus, so we don't say retroactively, oh listen, you were ... Now you can be ... it. I'll show you, rabosai, from the teshuvos of the Rosh Yeshiva ... You ready? And let me just tell you, l'fi zeh the ... halacha. If I take a knife, you hear, to clean it, a dirty knife to clean, or a clean knife to wipe it, then maskim, you could go and take that knife and put it away in the compartment of the knives, in the drawer, because you took it to clean. Much, I take it off the table to clean it. I took a dirty knife to clean, right? Why is that mutar? Stam, I didn't take it b'davka for that. If you take it b'davka, what's the problem? No, because if you're ... what do you mean? Because it's ... This is ... What's the ...? I want to clean it. For what purpose? I want to clean it. I want to clean it, no. You want that thing for a purpose right now. To clean it. That's a ... that's mutar to do. If you're allowed to do it, I don't know, you're allowed to use ... for the ... The ... is only for you, not for the thing. Okay, rabosai, listen to me carefully. Listen carefully, rabosai. Same thing by food. You want it now. Okay, I'll tell you, you would want that food, this orange here, that the orange shouldn't get dirty. Halacha l'maaseh, halacha l'maaseh, come, come. Okay, so this is Reb Shlomo Zalman's—according to Reb Shlomo Zalman, this is mutar, not more, okay? And that's l'choira with the Taz. Not more. Wait, give me a few minutes, I'll prove it to you. I'll prove it to you. You'll see the beauty of today. Today she is a piece of art, and art takes patience. The Taz is saying a pashut—how can it be called? The Taz is saying a pashut, when I didn't select b'davka, so there's no problem taking pesoles. That's the chiddush of the Taz. Now, the question is, is that good to use as a trick to be borer? That's not what the Taz is saying. Taz never said this is a good way to do borer, that if I really want to be borer, just close my eyes. That's not what he's saying. That's not stam. Again, if I take something stam, right?

Then I go and I put it away, that's not called stam. That's not necessarily what stam means. Stam means I stam took it. I stam took it. I'm taking the first thing that comes. Now I want to, after I finish whatever wiping, cleaning, whatever the story is, then I can put it away. You'll soon see where I got this from. Give me a few minutes. Okay, if it's too... say if you have to read. Maybe, we're gonna learn this. We're gonna learn this. We're gonna learn. We said a half hour, remember we learned this, Reb Chaim, we said this. Okay. Abaye said, know that Reb Elyashiv argues on Reb Shlomo Zalman on this point. Reb Elyashiv, in Eil Meshulash, he brings down that he holds that no borer afterwards. You can't use it and be borer, okay? Which means you pick it up and to wipe it and to put it away is not gonna work. Doesn't work. No, Reb Elyashiv. Okay, now, it's a very big problem. You're not really using, what are you doing? In stam, there's no heter borer in the first place. It's not the putting away afterwards. The point is, to wipe something and put it away. So by making the heter that I took it stamah and I used it and I put it away, the whole thing doesn't klap, because really what I'm doing is putting away so... So same thing by the oranges. In this example, I'm telling him if let's say you want to take an orange away from a pile of whatever because there's like a leak in the roof or something, you want to take it away l'tzorechah, for the fruit, not for you. Reb Elyashiv, it's not hishtamshus. Not hishtamshus, yeah. Chayr, chayr. I'm actually a little different. Okay. Let's get to the end. Let's say you wouldn't use it for anything. Let's say you just take it out. Not do anything. You wouldn't put it away, you wouldn't use it, nothing. You just take it out. The Taz is very simple. All the Taz is saying is that when I pick up something without a kavana, there's no problem. The question is, what does he mean by that? Does he mean that I'm going to use it now? What happened? I stam took it. Now you want to say you could put it away, but maybe something had to happen in the middle. Otherwise I'm stam being boirer to put it away. Let me tell you where I saw these nekudos. Roshiva zatzal has a teshuva about putting dishes back into a dishwasher, okay? You with the Roshiva's teshuvos, ayin daled, rechitzah daled, okay? He speaks about putting back into a dishwasher. Says the Roshiva, you have no right to take keilim and set it up, plates and spoons, because that's boirer, and it's not for lalter, okay? It's considered boirer shelo lalter, and therefore you have no right to put it in a dishwasher, because boirer is setting the spoons separate, the plates separate. You have no right to do it. If it's not separate, then it's fine. Yeah, so that's what he says you should do. You should just throw it in there. That's what you should do, okay? I'm saying the plates is kind of hard to just throw in. So whatever it is, but it can't be boirer. You take it and you put it. You can't set it up in the compartments. Plates you don't have, okay? The boirer. Yeah, the other boirer. So much. The shaila is, I feel like Rav Shach here pointed, only you say one word, it's gevaldik. The only difference is in lomdus I can hear, but halacha has to move, it has to flow. You have to have flow. Now, what? No, but I heard, I heard. I was never—I only saw Rav Shach in his room. I went to Rav Shach's room. It was funny. I came there, I didn't have a hat and jacket. I forgot it by Rabbi Benyamin Zilber. I went first to Rabbi Benyamin Zilber, and then I went to Rav Shach. And Rabbi Benyamin Zilber was so hot, he told me, Take off my hat and jacket. It was so hot, it was the middle of summer. I thought, you know, they don't have air conditioning; you could die over there. In Bnei Brak, you could pashut die. They don't have air conditioning. You could pashut die in those houses. No, you're saying Rabbi Benyamin—the tzaddikim don't have. Rav Shach had an air conditioning, but Rabbi Benyamin didn't have an air conditioning. I thought I was going to faint, and then he brought out tea for me to drink. I have the pictures of it. One day I'll show you the pictures. I'm sitting with this talmid. He's also without a hat, without a jacket, but he wore those big yarmulkes. And I'm sitting—I came with my wife. Else, we're both sitting over there, and he's drinking tea. It's funny. Okay, you guys got me. You got me good. He was telling me how he's a Tzioni. Half-hour shmooze on how he's a Tzioni. And I'm sitting there, nobody wants from me. And you know what the pel is? There was an article about him when he was niftar. They didn't speak much about him when he was niftar because of the politics of Eretz Yisrael. He was considered one of the most heilige Yidden until about 15 years ago.

Because there was, there was with the machloikes for Rav Shach and Zakin, so they pushed him away. Rebinyamin, his name, HaTzadik, came from—what's his name? The Chazon Ish. Chazon Ish used to say, Don't come to me for brachos. Rebinyamin HaTzadik, he was the one who coined Rebinyamin HaTzadik. You're talking about, mention a malach; he was a malach. Oz nidberu. Mamash a malach. The kitzai come, they give me a whole speech. So it's funny that in that article that they have, they have like a whole paragraph how everybody who came to his house, he would give a speech how he's a Tzioni. I couldn't stop laughing when I saw it. There's, in the article, right, he always said how he's a Tzioni, you know? He read this, says, I love Eretz Yisroel. He used to say, he would say, I just love Eretz Yisroel. I need Tzioni. I need Tzioni. Eretz Yisroel. He kept on telling me. Maybe he was trying to tell me I should stay in Eretz Yisroel. I don't know what he wanted. The kitza, this was about— I left my hat and jacket. I left my hat and jacket in his house and I forgot it. I came to Rav Shach, so, How are you gonna go back? So the grandson tells me, You go back, you're gonna miss your turn. He's not letting in people all day. You go and you go. I said, Wait, with go my shirt like this? Come on. He tells me I should go to Ponevezh and I should borrow a hat and jacket from some yeshiva guy. So I thought, telling him, I have to go now to Rav Shach. I need the hat. Can I borrow your hat and jacket? Typical Eretz Yisroeldik. What do you think he answered me? Made a deal with me. After you go in, you quickly give me the hat and jacket and I'll sneak in. Now, when you come out, the door's open, so as you give me the hat, I'll go in. That's the deal. That was the deal. I said, Ah. I was too American to even—wanted to be like, you know, you like sneak in over there. I said, Okay. So, kids, I wore his hat and jacket, and the guy didn't know. I spent the hour in the room over there. I don't know what he was doing outside. He thought it was just for a bracha, you know. I spent a good hour over there. He was telling me stories and zachin. It was like a real good, maybe even more than an hour. It's gevaldik. I kept on thinking during the whole time, the poor guy. He thought maybe I snuck out from some back door and I took his hat and jacket. Then I had to go back to Rebinyamin to pick up my hat and jacket. That was also funny. Came to the door, he comes out, he brings me my hat. He came to the door, he brings me the hat jacket. Shachachta zeh, shachachta. Because I was trying to think, what did he think? Because the truth is there was Mincha and Maariv. There was a—like, what was he thinking the whole day I walked around with a hat and jacket? Kids, you guys got me at a good moment. Okay, Rosh Yeshiva Zatzal says that you're not allowed to put— that you're not allowed to put ayin daled, rechitza. Okay, so I wanted to know, does the Rosh Yeshiva mean even with the Taz? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe he means even with the Taz, that even if I took it stamah, I'm not allowed to put it back. Ah, that's a good shaila. Let's say I take the first thing that comes, can I now put it back? Borer. That's a good shaila, ah? That's good, right? Could you read me the Rosh Yeshiva's teshuva quickly, quickly, quickly? Okay. Now let me tell you a few more cases of borer, and then I'm going to continue with the teshuvas Rosh Yeshiva. Big plates and small plates, what would you call that? One min or two minim? I could hear it's different than spoons and forks. Plates are plates. No, no, but I'm saying it's better a little bit. Spoons and forks have different uses, different usages. A big plate, a small plate, a dessert plate and a chicken plate. I could hear—I don't know—I could hear a difference a little bit. It holds food, but it's different than a fork and a knife. Even a fork and a knife is also a plate. Entirely different. You hear? You hear, Rebinyamin? So it could be big plates and small plates, no borer. How about big cups and small cups? For sure. I spoke about that. You came late. You knew I was gonna scream at you at some point. You knew I was gonna let you miss three nights in a row. You knew I was gonna come to your house and drag you by your ears. What do you think was gonna happen? Okay. We spoke about big forks. We’re gonna get to it. Big forks, the small forks, maybe the two minim. I don’t know. I don’t know. We’ll talk about it, okay? I was thinking, though, how about plates and bowls? That’s a nice shaylah, plates and bowls. Would you call soup plates? I’m saying soup bowls. In English we call those bowls. No, I’m saying, so as far why it shouldn’t be ... the righter plates. Yeah, but it’s not this. I think for keliter, plates and bowls, and that’s like ... And another shaylah I would have is paper cups and, what do you call it, and hot cups. What, do they mix together? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why don’t top of the other mix together, though? Okay. Read the teshuvah of the Rosh Yeshiva, ... go, go, go.

Dishwasher. Dishwasher. He said exactly how the Rosh Yeshiva would say it, dishwasher, yeah. Some melachah Shabbos. ... But it's because it's not—he doesn't think he's gonna turn on the dishwasher on Shabbos, and he's trying to say it's a melachah Shabbos because of not balter. Okay, okay. ... He mutar l'sadram kefi shetzarich l'hadachasan. Okay, l'sadram, yeah. Kefi shetzarich l'hadachasan, yeah. Teshuvah. Mutar. Ve'ein bazeh mishum hachanah, shebishvil hayom tov l'anshei bayis... Maybe he means that it has to be clean, clean house, clean house. Okay, go ahead. What about the bayis? The bayis, the makom shebayim... Yeah, bayis. ... אבל לסדרם... heword, asur. Mitzad hachanah. Mitzad hachanah? Really? U'lepa'amim gam mishum borer. He knows how to read a teshuvah. You're gonna be a big... Now you know how to read it. Now you know how to give a shit. That's how you're supposed to give a shit. You say how you got everybody listening. I don't know. Maybe he means the Taz. I don't know. I was clarifying, does he mean the Taz? Does the Rosh Yeshiva hold that if I pick it up stamah, if I pick it up stamah, maybe I could do it. I don't know. I don't know. Why is it that I don't have the heter of the Taz? I picked it up stamah off the table. Does that could this shailah? Does that could this shailah? Okay. L'maaseh. Okay, you ready? Huh? No, the Rosh Yeshiva is saying not. You can't do it. Yeah, yeah. So you're saying, l'sadram b'kavanah asur, mitzad hachanah. Yeah. U'lepa'amim gam mishum borer, u'v'lo kavanah. I don't even means. You tell me what he means. But either way, he means boir. He means boir. He means boir. I'll call ponim laboisai like this, a good shaila, right on the side, with the taz or without the taz. Okay, now, with this, listen carefully, you hear? I want to tie in a meydik vort. I hold that the— I have a פירוש ראיה the Rishiv didn't hold of the taz. Full פירוש, full ראיה. Go to the one on boir, you hear? איגרס משה, חלק ד'. This is classic. Advaice, this is it. This is one of my good ones. You ready? חלק ד', סימן עין ד'. Huh? עין ד', but it's rechitza, yeah? It talks about, what happens if I took a sefer— yeah, עין ד' by boir. Yeah, go ahead. What happens in case he's looking for a sefer? What's your kasha? I don't remember. I think maybe it's Yud Aleph, maybe. That was Yud Aleph, okay, so that's why I have Yud Aleph in my mind. Keitzad efshar lechapes sefer hatzarich lo l'achar zman? How is it possible to search for a sefer that he needs for later? U'me'urav min sefarim acherim she'ein shmo kasuv me'acharav. Okay, just in case, guys, what's the answer? What do you do? Kvar amarti eitzah, likach kol sefer u'poseklo. You open up every sefer, which means you use it, yeah? U'k'shero'eh she'eino hasefer shetzarich, yanichenu. Where? Where? Weir. Continue. ... למקום למקום. גם ולא צריך שרוצה בהתעסקות בעולם, ולא יעשה בשביל כוונת השכר, ... התעסקות זה בשביל למצוא הספר שצריך, מאחר שהוא דהוא מעשה התעסקות. אבל יעשה באופן שהוא מעשה בורר. דהיינו, בעוד שהוא עומד, יפתח רק מה שאפשר שהוא מעט, ויניח על ידי זה שאינו הספר שצריך, שזהו מעשה הבורר. וכן בבגדים יכול לעשות זה, דהיינו ליקחו מהכלל זה דרך התעסקות עד שימצא את הבגד שצריך, אבל לא באופן הניכר כוונת הליבר. I didn't say where. Oh, before, okay. ... גם ולא צריך.

So maiseh, you take it, you look at it, or you put it back. Of course, the chiddush is you could put it somewhere else. He's saying you're doing a maiseh hashas. Putting it away somewhere else, much better. It's worse. That's borer. Putting it back for sure not. It's a maiseh hashas. That's what he says. What is the part? I don't need to say first, I put it back. That's borer. Of course it's borer. So let me tell you over an interesting Shmiras Shabbos K'hilchasah. The Shmiras Shabbos K'hilchasah, perek gimmel, orek kuf tzadi zayin, says that you're chayav to put it back. You can't put it somewhere else. You take out a sefer. That's not what Rav Moshe said. Rav Moshe talks about— no, Rav Moshe is saying that the heter is because you're allowed to take it out derech hashaskus and bring it somewhere else. That wasn't the sefer. I wanted— beautiful. If you're showing that that's not the sefer you wanted, so that means you're being borer. No, no, no. You put— let's say you put here, this is not it, so you put it back. According to Rav Moshe, you have to put it back. No, it's dark. Rav Moshe holds it's a problem when it's dark. So he comes out, the Cheshbin says, the Rav Shlomo Zalman, that you have to put it back. You know why? Because you undid the maiseh borer. He brings a marshak that it's shayach to be— there's a din of kayama. It has to be kayama by borer, and since I put it back, so nothing happened, nothing. And Rav Shlomo Zalman says it doesn't make any sense, this marshak, and he's mamash matmia on it. But that's the nidon: when you pull out a sefer and it's dark, should you put it back to the same place, or could you put it somewhere else? I remember standing on ... the yeshiva. For sure, I have no shaylah that they learn up the ... I'm gonna look into this again. I thought R' Moshe's words were even that. You want to know something? We have to look in Acharonim. There's something changed. I know for sure R' Moshe said to put it back in the same place. I'm 100% not to put it back in the same place. I mean, I see from what he says about hisaskus, but I think even the words, I have to look in Acharonim too. Al kol panim, remember we have this with these two, this one word. We have to look at the ... Okay. L'choira, if you have the Taz, there'd be no reason why you can't be ... afterwards, because once you took out stamah, you're a mishtamesh, you're allowed to put it back. You see clearly the yeshiva ... Huh? Because otherwise it's ... it's regular ... The fact that he says not to put it back in the same place, why put it back? You were mishtamesh, now you can be ... The answer is it's not the Taz. Okay. Why do I have this? Okay. Unless, chaveisi, you say ... You hear? ... When I take something out b'to'us. What's wrong? What's wrong? When you take something out b'to'us, you hear? When you take something out b'to'us, it's a lot worse than taking something stamah, because when it's b'to'us, the kavanah was for ... When you take something out, your kavanah is it's not the right thing, you're gonna put it back. That's not the same thing as taking it stamah. K'ritz pashut, right? So it could be this isn't ... Even hachanami, in the Taz, maybe I could take it and use it. But once it's a story of ta'us, ta'us is batel. I take it out. I made a mistake. I put it back, so what else? That's what I—lechatchila, when I took it out, I meant that. Okay. What do we do? Just start it with—two more minutes. Two more minutes. Okay, let me give you a little case now, so then it will be a little exciting, the case. All right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go. Little cases. Okay. According to this, are you allowed to take from the table dirty dishes and put it in the sink? Just stam. How's that stam? Avada, because even though you're being borer, you're taking whatever's there, right? You're not choosing one, right? If you take stam and you put it in the sink, it's no problem. But if I would take stam and put it away so the clean ones, and I put them away, then it's asur, it'd be borer. If I take a clean one from the table—huh? Oh, so we'll talk about that. Unless you use the heter of the Aruch HaShulchan, which is a good heter, rabosai.

Four or five. Unless it's—if it's not four or five pieces, more than four or five pieces, then it's going to be nikkar. I don't know. I don't know. The case is a very... yeah. No, so stam on the table, if it's one by one, it's no problem. I'll tell you a chiddush. I'll tell you a chiddush. He brings down the Rav Nissim Karelitz that when you take away from the table, he says first of all it's a sevara that it could be not borer, it's called pinui. It's called cleaning up the table. It's not called borer. And then he says a chiddush that if you're choshesh for borer, then every person should take one—every person at the table to take one, stam, whatever the first one they take. So like this it's stam, and it's not with the cheshbon borer. I always tell you that's more melachah than the whole melachah, to get every guy to clean up the table. That itself is tircha d'Shabbos, to get every guy to help on Shabbos to take off the table. Okay, we'll revisit this tomorrow, okay? We just started. The truth is I wanted to go through this. There's a lot more to go. Is borer in this certain—are you selecting or are you cleaning up what's there? That's—seems like it's misselecting. So if I have a saskus, I'm not selecting. Correct. But then you're mixing in that the remoishes are holding you have to put it somewhere else. That's a maaseh of the— I don't know what happens afterwards. If you hold it, then it doesn't matter where I put it. Then if it's the chaftzah, then it doesn't matter. If it matters in the chaftzah, so it's the pile of sefarim, so now I can't put it back right after...