Hilchos Borer: Shtei Minim in Chicken, Eggs, Mixed Nuts, and Selecting for Another Person

Transcript

Okay, here we go. Okay. Yesterday, we began an inyan, and I hope, be'ezras Hashem yisbarach, by today to finish it, and then, im yirtzeh Hashem, we'll be done with boir. The inyan is what's called shtei minim. Shtei minim is essential in boir. It becomes one of the, I guess, the foundations of the sugyas of boir, because boir is only by shtei minim when it's not real psoles, and if it's min echad, the Rama tells us there's no boir. So what creates, what institutes shtei minim? So we said yesterday that it could come from many different angles. It could be that it has different names, two things that have different names, or two things that taste different, or two things that have the same name, they taste the same, but we'll soon see it's possible that they have different functions, right? Then we could have an adding of two more cases, and that is that they are different in what they look like, in tzurah, they look different, or texture, they feel different. And we'll soon see which of the above meets the criteria to make it shtei minim. So we began with the Mishnah Berurah in se'if katan tes-vav, b'shem the Chayei Adam, that basar tzeluyim u'vushal is mikri shtei minim. Tzli mevushal is called two minim. Now, what is the—tzli mevushal has different taste, chayra. Otherwise people wouldn't do it. People wouldn't make tzli mevushal. Does it have a different tzurah? Not necessarily. It's the same piece of meat. Maybe a little bit looks different. Maybe a cooked chicken looks a little different than a roasted chicken, efshar, but very slight, right? Does it have a different name? That's a good question. It's a very key question. Because tzli mevushal, for example, let's even basar, the case that he brings—he's not even talking about chicken, but by regular basar, we know there's such a thing called roast, and there's such a thing called a pot stew. You go to the restaurant, you just say, 'Give me basar.' Avada, you say, 'Give me roast,' or 'Give me pot stew.' You come, there's chilukim, right? So maybe that not only is it different in taste, but it's different in name as well. Texture could be, maybe soft, maybe not. But the ikar nekudah: name. I think it's very important to identify, is basar tzli and basar mevushal, is it considered different only because it tastes different, or actually they're really different? Because the Mishnah Berurah continues with a kol shekein. What's this kol shekein? Kol shekein by two minim of—different types of bird. Good example: turkey, duck, chicken. Those are different birds, right? Now, what's the kol shekein? What does he mean, kol shekein? Does he mean kol shekein because eina chanami, they're so different, right? No, but maybe it just means that they're so different because it also is different b'taam. It's different in taste, right? Sure, a lot of people can tell the difference between turkey and chicken and duck. It makes a very big difference in taste. So why is it kol shekein? So maybe the kol shekein becomes because it's chaluk in tzurah also, maybe. It's chaluk in shem, right? It's a different name. Or, like we said yesterday, possibly that it doesn't need all of the above chilukim because they are shtei minim. Two types of oif are really two types. So what you liked, and I saw yesterday you liked it, and that's what the kol shekein is. Meat is two minim, whereas— Exactly. Meat is meat, and there's two different types of meat. Ma she'ein kein by minei oif, right, it's two separate. Okay, so this we discussed yesterday: what is the kol shekein? Is the kol shekein because kol shekein that it's so different in name, or maybe it has nothing to do with that. It just happens to be two minim. So all the chilukim wouldn't make a difference. For example, if lu yetzuyer, the chicken and the turkey taste the exact same, they look the same, they feel the same, it doesn't make a difference. Turkey is not—

A chicken, the chicken's not turkey. Mashenki, by basar tli, a basar mevushal, you would have to come on to the chilukim, let's call them the side chilukim, because essentially it's basar, basar is basar. This is what we discussed yesterday. We said, l'choira, that there's an interesting Mishnah Berurah above, where he talks about, from the Pri Megadim, tapuchim, chamutzim u'mesukim. If you have apples, chamutz u'masuk, right, sweet and sour, if those are considered shtei minim. So the question is, why is that a safek? If mevushal and tli is not a safek, why all of a sudden is this yes a safek? Why is it that this is a safek? So this is a question we asked yesterday. We decided that it's possible to compare to this sugya of chamutz u'mevushal, a chamutz and masuk, cucumbers and pickles, right? One is supposedly a sweet, and the other one is a sour, it's a pickle, right? It's a chamutz. Chamutz, in Hebrew it's called melafefon regular, and the pickle is called melafefon chamutz. So is it the same, or maybe there's a difference? And of course the shaylah would be, how do we understand tapuchim chamutzim? And that's what we pretty much ended with yesterday before we get into the stories. Tapuchim chamutzim could mean just the way it's the regular apples, they're both the same. Sometimes they're sour. Sometimes they're sweeter, but basically it's the same apple. The shaylah becomes how to translate tapuchim, chamutzim, u'mesukim. Maybe, maybe tapuchim, chamutzim, u'mesukim is all the same thing; it just tastes different. U'vazoi, we could say that that would be the safek of the Pri Megadim, because it's not very different. Ma she'ein kein basar tzli and basar mevushal is really different. Less sour, more sour is just levels in flavor, so to speak. But mevushal and tzli could be a really basic difference, could be a very, very big difference. And that answers why this is a davar pashut to the Mishnah Berurah, tzli u'mevushal, while chamutzim u'mesukim is a safek, the safek of the Pri Megadim. Then we would say we have an answer to our question of pickles. Why? Because by pickles, l'choira it's a different metzius. You walk into a Produce store, right? You don't buy pickles; you buy cucumbers. You walk into a store that sells bottled products, right? Then you'll find pickles. Pickles are not cucumbers, and cucumbers are not pickles. Mimeila, they're different, completely different minim, so to speak. So you can't compare it to chamutzim and tapuchim chamutzim u'mesukim. And it would be closer, it would be closer to mevushal and tzli. It would be closer to mevushal and tzli, and therefore if a platya had a simchah, they have mixed together, let's say cucumbers with pickles, you wouldn't be able to be mevarer one from the other. I pointed out that it's interesting, in Europe, a pickle, as well as in Hebrew, is the same thing as a cucumber. They're both called melafefonim. They're both called melafefon, and Yiddish is called an ugerke. So an ugerke is the same whether it's a zisa, a zoyer, and sweet and sour, and so too in Hebrew, it's chamutz and matok, melafefon chamutz, melafefon regular. So it could be that they looked at it that it's the same min, just different flavor. But in America, which Reb Leizer pointed out, in America, a pickle is a pickle. You can't tell a kid, you give him a cucumber. He wants a pickle. It's a whole different entity. So it could be it's more doimeh to basar b'chalav and basar b'vush. Maybe not. That's what we're saying. A pickle's not a cucumber. You try, you try to give a guy a salami sandwich with a pickle, you'll see what happens. You'll see, you'll lose your customer. You give him a salami sandwich with a— I don't mean the fresh cucumber. Pickle is a pickle. A pickle's not a cucumber. So a pickle is— Right. I don't mean that. I know what he wants to say: there's sour and half sour, and sweet pickles and sweet dill, and we're talking about cucumbers and pickles. That's what we're discussing. And then, hachanami, in the pickle family, okay, that would be similar to apples. That would be similar to apples. Perfect example. That would be a very good—

Case of apples, the sweet and the sour. Okay. The problem that we really have to address is the Pri Megadim, where the Pri Megadim says clearly in Eshl Avraham, se'if katan yud tes, that in order to make a difference of shtei minim, it has to be different b'ta'aman oi b'shman. What? That would be something, that you have sour pickles and sweet sour. That's right, that's right. In other words, because it's in the pickle family, that would be like chamutzim. That would be like the apples, which are chamutzim and mesukim. That's exactly what I'm trying to bring out. In the same family. So it's one either way. It depends. Either b'vadei or misafek. Or misafek, I'm saying, but it would be a different case. That's all I'm just saying. It's a different... I mean, the truth, we're going to learn later that I don't think that's pshat chamutzim and mesukim of the apples. Eventually we're going to learn that chamutzim and mesukim by the apples is different entities. It's two different minim. There's a granny apple and a sweet delicious. Sweet delicious. It's a whole different apple. Red delicious, whatever. It's a whole different apple. Chamutzim is very shayach. Ai, what's the safek? Right, so the shaylah is what is that? Okay, so what is it? What is it referring to? Right, the shaylah is what the Pri Megadim is referring to. Are you talking about an apple that happens to be sour, or are you talking about a different type of apple? Exactly. That was what we said yesterday. This is all chazarah of what we said yesterday. We're not sure how to define what chamutzim and mesukim is. Is it different apples, different minim of apples? Is it the same but different flavors of apple? Good question. Okay. Al kol panim, the Pri Megadim himself writes in Eshl Avraham, se'if katan yud tes, that there has to be chalukim b'ta'aman oi b'shman, chalukim in taste. Or in their name. Okay. You should know that there's a gevaldige chiddush from the Pri Megadim, a gevaldige chiddush from the Pri Megadim. Okay, I mean, so really what's my kasha? My kasha is, if chalukin b'ta'aman, so really what's the safek about the chamutzim and mesukim? It's chalukin b'ta'aman. That's the Pri Megadim. Pri Megadim says clearly in se'if katan hei, that the chiluk between two minim would be when it's chaluk b'ta'aman oi b'shman. Right, right. He said it also. Pshat, he said yesterday. So the shaila is like this. The Pri Megadim brings down in se'if katan hei that shtei minim has to do with shechiyanu. Shtei minim has to do with shechiyanu. So the problem, of course, is that we don't really find by basar tli and basar mevushal that it makes it into a shechiyanu. It's still basar; basar is basar. So it's really a shaila. So what does the Pri Megadim mean by apples? Unless he meant it was two different types of apples. Otherwise, it's very hard to say that the chiluk in taste makes—now it would be a raya, l'choira, that it means two different minim. Because since the Pri Megadim himself says it's talui in the shechiyanu, I don't believe that an apple, sweeter and sour, is going to make a chiluk in shechiyanu. That's zicher not. Halachah, in Reish Chaf-Hei, se'if katan yud-daled, by the kelalim over there, zicher doesn't make this chiluk. Maybe a different type of apple, you know, it's a green apple to a red apple. By apples, that's what he brings in shechiyanu? He says it over here by peiros. No, you want to know the case he talks about, the different types of cake he discusses. Cake? Yeah, some kind of sweet cake with a honey cake, I don't know. I don't know. But if you look it up, you can look it up yourself. It's in se'if katan hei in Eshl Avraham. He says it's talui on the shechiyanu. Chayra, it's a shaila in halacha by meats if you make a shehecheyanu. Mishnah Berurah brings down two deyos. By gediim u'tloyim, if you have duck and chicken, if someone never had duck in his life, if he should make a shehecheyanu. Okay, point being, I don't really want to go into the shehecheyanu so much. I just want to use it as a shtikel raya, is that when he says apples, sweet and sour, hard to believe that the same Pri Megadim who spoke about shehecheyanu speaks about flavors in apples, because then there's no shehecheyanu difference between flavors of apples. So he's not the only teveiah what makes shehecheyanu. He says it, though. Saying there's peiros and things that are not maichalim. Correct, but by oichel he says to make shtei minim it would be the shehecheyanu difference. He says it. You know, if you don't like the Pri Megadim, what's fine with me. He holds slivos mushlos is not shtei minim? That was one of my kashas that I asked. I don't know. He didn't speak about slivos mushlos. It's not his. It's slivos mushlos is a chayadim. The Pri Megadim is about apples and chamutzim, so it's enough for me.

To be a raya that the primagadim wouldn't jump from making a shehechiyanu to make two minim to apples that have a little bit more sweet or a little more sour taste. And by davar lach, there's never going to be. By davar lach is also, but borer anyway, yeah. Chalas don't borer. Okay, I'll tell you the emes. You can be mefalpel a lot in this Pri Megadim, because it's a tremendous, interesting brainstorm to use the shehechiyanu to make the shehechiyanu the ikar of the din borer. What's shehechiyanu for borer? You can be mefalpel, and it's a good idea to write on the sugya, to work on this Pri Megadim. But l'eis atah, just once they get to the case of chamutzim, to give us the case, it would be a hard jump to jump from a shehechiyanu, from a shehechiyanu that makes two minim, to chamutzim flavors. Very, very difficult. Very difficult. Okay. Now, oy bazoi, we have a big chiddush, that when it's the same min be'etzem, technically there is no borer, right? Because it has to be two minim for the shehechiyanu, so to speak. And even apples is a different type of apple. The problem is the Mishnah Berurah in Taf Kuf Daled, se'if katan chaf, speaks about matzah meal. He says you have thicker pieces and thinner pieces, there's different types of matzah meal. It's well ground, better ground, and you want to sift, take out the better from the worse. Says the Mishnah Berurah there that there's a problem of borer because— Because it has two different usages. From one you make kneidlach, from the other thing you make chveiz kugels, I don't know, whatever the case over there is. So you come out, and that was the klal I told you, when it's chaluk b'tashmishan. When it has different usages, when it has different usages, chaluk b'tashmishan, it has a criteria of shtei minim. Choira, choira. You see from here that even though it's the same thing, you know, it's not a chiluk in shechiyanu. Not going to make a chanatz mil thicker and thinner. Avin dak is not going to make a chiluk in the shechiyanu. And if it's true what we're saying, that in order to make shtei minim, it needs to have that it's completely shtei minim, that's completely different than the minim, what do you do with this Mishnah Berurah? Tzarich iyun. So Mishnah Berurah tzarich iyun says mashma that even in the same min, right, it has different usages. Now the question is, why do you call different usages? You know, a pickle, you wouldn't eat—when you need a cucumber, and a cucumber you wouldn't eat when you need a pickle. Is that called different usages, where it has to be usage that you use it differently? I'm not sure what the criteria and the hagdarah of the Mishnah Berurah in Taf Kuf Daled of different usages means. Does different usage mean that you would take this and use it differently, or it's used in different—right? For example, you have tomatoes, right? You know, they make pickles out of tomatoes. Tomato pickles. Pickled tomatoes. Tell me something, if someone needed a salad with tomatoes, you think he'd pick the tomato pickles instead? No, right? It's different tashmishin. Different taste good. It says different tashmishin, right? Unless that's not a hagdarah of different tashmishin. Tzarich iyun. We'll move on, okay? It's a good ha'arah. What does different tashmishin mean now? Practical applications according to the above hakdaros. We just finished learning different hakdaros and what makes shtei minim. So let's discuss the following cases: tops and bottom of chicken. Famous machlokes, Reb Elyashiv and Reb Shlomo Zalman. Reb Elyashiv holds that tops and bottom of chicken is considered min echad. Reb Shlomo Zalman considers it shtei minim. Famous machlokes. It's got to be a lot of pieces anyway, right? The derech hashulchan. Let's say there's a lot of pieces. You have tops, you have bottoms, they're mixed up. Very negeia. Very negeia, of course. So the question is, is that called shtei minim or min echad? Beautiful question. Okay. So let's go through the hakdarah. Let's go through the hakdarah. L'choirah, if you learn that shtei minim is תלוי in taste, maybe I could hear a chiluk. Tops don't taste like bottoms, and bottoms don't taste like tops. My aunt used to get, when my father used to go to my aunt, she used to get special from only tops. Because he couldn't eat a bottom. Okay, aril mefunak. The other way around. The other way around is also, right? Most people, the other way around, they can't touch a top because they're too dry. Too dry. Right. Okay. Al kol panim, so you definitely have chiluk in texture. You definitely have chiluk...

Okay, but I could hit. Shailah is different names. It's interesting, you know, they don't call it tops and bottoms in the, when you sell it in the store. Chicken thigh. ... Chicken, chicken breast and chicken thigh. ... Chicken thigh and chicken breast. ... So it could be that that's what the machlokes, Reb Shimon Zalman and Reb Elyashiv, is. L'maaseh, it's the same min, yeah? L'maaseh it's the same min. How do you attach the kashken of shtei minei oifos? Maybe by shtei minei oifos the kol shekein is because it's really different taste, and it looks different, and it's—so this has all the ma'alos. It looks different, and it's different tashmishin, and it has all the ma'alos, right? The only difference is it doesn't have the ma'alah that it's a different min. Can't say it's a different min. So Reb Shimon Zalman is learning you don't need that much to make it shtei minim, as long as it's chaluk b'ta'aman, right? As long as it's chaluk b'shman. This is called a thigh and this is called a top, achveisvas. Mashenkein, Reb Elyashiv is saying, no, in order to make it shtei minim, it has to be such a very, very big difference. You know what? I'll tell you the emes. I thought about it in an interesting way. When they serve chicken, they don't serve it as tops and bottoms. They give you chicken. I thought about it. It's interesting. In other words, top and bottom is not the same thing as roast. Let's say you order chicken at a chasunah, right, to serve at a wedding. They'll give you tops and bottoms. Try to have tops and bottoms. And you never know what you're getting. No waiter's not going to say, Would you like a bottom? Would you like a top? He gives you a chicken. You don't like it, switch with the guy next to you. Ma she'ein kein mevushal and tzli, it's the menu, right? There's a very, very big difference between a mevushal and a tzli over a top and a bottom. So yachol lihyot, it's possible, it's possible. Reb Shlomo Zalman's learning, it doesn't take much. Remember in yeshiva, huh? In yeshiva, the lady behind the counter in the dining room always questioned, Do you want top or do you want bottom? First question. Which yeshiva? Neir Yisroel. Neir Yisroel, because they're proper people. And that's because they asked you top or bottom. Which chasan do you go to that they ask you top or bottom? They put it down. You like, you like. Now you switch with the guy next to you. Usually they don't pick tops by chasanim. It depends if they, depends what they... It's always going to be bottom or... Okay, so I'll tell you the emes. I'll tell you the emes. So I'll tell you the real emes. Let's be practical. To sit and discuss, you know, everybody's what they do with chasanim and how you eat chicken, it's not much for a shiur. But the point is, I can hear a difference between top and bottom and mevushal and tzli and shtei mitos. It served together, tops and bottoms. People serve tops and bottoms together. You want, you take what you want, but it's served together. What does the Mishnah Berurah say about tzli and...? Tzli mevushal is considered tomei. Oh, so we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk. Give me a minute, give me a minute. On kapanah, so what do we have? We have over here a big machloikes. According to Reb Elyashiv here, roast is mevushal also. What? Roast, when you buy a roast, you cook it in a pot of water. That's mevushal also. We spoke about this. You said it's two different names because you have pot roast and roast. Roast is also mevushal. So I don't mean sli. Give me a name for it. The shwarma chveis, that sli is a... I don't know the case where you go to a store and you say, sli. You might decide to be tzli, but I don't think it's a different name. The different types of meat, they all usually, they all have different names. There's pot roast. But that's all in mevushal. That's not a difference between tzli and mevushal. It's not like a roast is sli. Your standard roast, when your wife makes a roast, she's making mevushal. Lemaaseh, it's very shayach we can be mechadesh that kol zeh is for the person that has a detifus of a top over a bottom and a bottom over a top. But for the person who hates the top over the bottom, or he hates the bottom over the top, to him it could be a pesailus and a hakel meidim. I would say that Reb Elyashiv and Reb Shlomo Zalman would both agree that it's shtei minim, because the truth is, shtei minim...

This is different than oichel u'psailus. This, if you look at the Biur Halacha, the Rav Maschil b'niyach, and also the Rav Maschil sheboirer, the Biur Halacha says clearly that there's a very big difference between shebir shachris, for example, the din of laalter, right? So the Biur Halacha says clearly, by shtei minei ochlim, it's different, borer from psailus. V'nikra boy bayom ki im misuda l'suda, right? Mashenkein when it's real, real borer, when it's real borer, psailus mitoch ochel, then it has a different halacha. You have it? Ayin b'Mishnah Berurah, right? Kakasuv seif, seif Shabbos, seif ma'aser keach, v'yesh me'achronim. V'haMagen Avraham michlalam shetiknu l'inyan shtei minei ochlim nishtaneh hadin mi'borer ochlim mi'psailus, v'lo nikra l'boy bayom ki im misuda l'suda. Ha'acha she'achal ha'suda, meichal suda acheres, af she'odain zman muflag, mikol makom michlal laalter. So you see that the laalter of shtei minim is different here, the Rav Maschil shebir, page 280. Because it's a different—shtei minim is less, shtei minim is less. I want to tie into this nekudah, ha'oles emes ha'vart, that by shtei minim, so then the halacha could be that if you have an adifus, so you could say that maybe shtei minim has to be stronger. But if you hate the top, where then it becomes mamash like psailus to you, could be it doesn't take that much of a chiluk of minim to make it shtei minim, psailus, toch ochel. So let's say you have two minim, right? So if, more or less, a chicken, a top, a bottom, okay. If you hate it— And to you it becomes psailus, so maybe then the hagdarah becomes even on the top and the bottom. Anything that's psailus is more chamur. What do you say, רבי? I think it's an emesdik. I'm just saying, if the pshat is you have an adifus of a top over a bottom, so you could say, Rabbi, the yashiv is saying, what's the chiluk between a top and a bottom? There's no real difference, okay? מה שאין כן if you hate it, so there's a very big difference, and then it becomes like psailus. So by psailus it doesn't take much to make it beir any psailus, so it's much more chamur, so it could be would have a din of psailus, huh? If you hate tops, if you hate tops, whatever it is, whatever, if you hate tops, whatever it is. I don't know, I don't want to pasken, it's not really nogeia. Huh? I'm saying it's neged the din of lalter. It would be neged the din of lalter. It wouldn't have a din of she'eino mekaven. When you hate something, it's not she'eino mekaven. What? No, so when it has to be lalter, it wants to be mutar, because derech achilah. That's the klal. The klal is that when it's not real she'eino mekaven, it's less. It's less of a beir. When it's she'eino mekaven, it's less of a beir, so the lalter becomes—it has to be... If the problem is that it's she'eino mekaven, not psailus and oichel, not real psailus and oichel, just it's because you... No, minechot's always mutar. So minechot and real psailus is also asur. I'm saying if it's minechot, so then what's the bottom line? No, let's see. No, so I'm trying to explain to you, the svara of minechot, that you can make a broad minechot. Maybe it's taka where you have just an adifus one over another, that you want to eat this and not this. But where you hate something, and to you it maybe becomes like real psailus, you can't eat it. So then it's more chumrus, so then the hagdarah would be a little different. In other words, then it would be a heter v'alter. And then it would be a heter v'alter. What I'm saying is, and then you could say that at top and bottom, and then you could say a top and a bottom is taka two different minim; it's aser. And it would be also always to take the one you don't like. Right, the one you don't like. I'm saying that the svara, the svara of min echad and shtei minim, and that we say that there's a certain criteria to the shtei minim, maybe it's not when you hate it. When you hate it, it wouldn't make a difference. That's what I'm clarifying. When to you it's so bad that you can't eat it, it could be it's different. Okay. Now, I want to say an interesting chiluk, yeah? What happens where you cut up the pieces, and it's, you know, slices of chicken and slices of turkey? So let's see the difference. If you learn, like we spoke before— It's normally, and my grandmother used to do it, so that's how I know it's normal. I mean, I grew up that way. Yeah, she used to. Okay, so I'll tell you. And don't push me, and don't push me like last night.

Stories my grandmother, okay? Stories that my grandmother told. It's a good book. Bubby Meises, yeah, yeah, that's good. Let me tell you, she had a thing that it had to be eidel. It couldn't be—so, for example, the soda bottles on the table were not allowed to be the big ones, because it's gas, it's ugly. It has to be the small soda bottles. I, the small soda bottles, double the price. Double the price. No. She used to say these words: I don't care. I like it. This is the way I like it, and for me this is what—it's worth the money, she used to tell me. Till we came up with a gevaldige idea. We bought the big ones and filled up the little ones. Every Erev Shabbos, the kids would go there and fill up the little bottles. It is what it is. It is what it is. In the good old days, my bubby was into this. Bekitzur, so my bubby held that it's not a kavod Shabbos to put a turkey bone on the table. That was a big thing by her. So they chained the turkey. The whole Shabbos, turkey has to have tish, you know, and the chicken, you had to cut it up. It had to be badinos. So everything was sliced. Everything was sliced. Not Friday night, but Shabbos by day, everything was sliced. So let's say you have slices of turkey together with slices of chicken, so you can't tell any difference, kimat not. The only thing is maybe, maybe, maybe a bissel a chleis, hapsa. Example, the top of the turkey and then the chicken, you kimat can't tell the difference. The only thing is if you learn the kol shekein in the Mishnah Berurah by shtei minim, you don't need all the klalim, so it wouldn't make a difference. So maiseh, shtei minim, who cares? Okay. Soft-boiled and hard-boiled eggs. L'choira, soft-boiled and hard-boiled eggs is just a chiluk in texture. Same egg. An egg is an egg. Just a shaylah if it's soft-boiled or hard-boiled, right? Not the same. Not the same. A soup, ... is much more tasty, different, it is different. Okay, okay. I agree with them. Paskin like them. What do you want from me? I don't pasken for the ... I like soft-boiled. Hard-boiled and soft-boiled is further apart than ... Yeah, okay, so pasken that way. Next. The kitzur, what about if I want to take away the yellow, the yolk of the egg from the white of the egg? So this is a Mishnah Berurah, סעיף קטן נח. In סעיף קטן נח, Mishnah Berurah is mistapek. I saw this yesterday. סעיף קטן נח. חלבון וחלמון. The chalbon and the chalmon, he has a whole shaila if it's considered borer or not, right? But the funny thing about this Mishnah Berurah—not funny, but the thing that you have to pay close attention—is it's talking about eino mevushal. The story over there is that it's eino mevushal. Lechora, lechora, if a person would be mevashel the egg and you want to take out the yellow from the white or the white from the yellow and throw out whichever one you don't want, it's not the same, because Mishnah Berurah spoke about a case of what? When it's not mevushal, huh? Maybe when it's mevushal it's different. Reb Elyashiv holds like this. Reb Elyashiv holds that the whole halacha of this chalbon and chalmon, that the Mishnah Berurah has a safek because it's an eino mevushal. By a mevushal, it's all considered min echad. Egg is egg, and that's the story. Now the truth is—so I'll tell you what I thought he meant. You know, there are certain recipes that call for egg yolks, and there are certain recipes that call for egg whites. So, mashenkein, when you cook the egg, you don't get served yolks without whites and whites without yolks. You could choose to eat one without the other, but basically it comes together as a package. Maybe that's what ribui yashiv means. Either way, I want to pasken that if a guy throws out the yolk because of cholesterol, so to him it's real p'seilos, ken zayin, and when it's real p'seilos, I told you that it's a little bit more chamur. Doesn't eat the white. Doesn't eat the white. Two what? Has no taste. It's like the chicken skin. It's not the same. It's not the same. We spoke, I told you this, that if a guy throws out the chicken top because of cholesterol, it could be it's a little different. Could be it's different. But could be it's different. First of all, it's a lot different because what? That's not if he can't stand it. Here's if he can't eat it. If you're not allowed to eat it because it's dangerous for you, it's a lot different than the chicken skin. The chicken skin could be more like a peel. It could be different. It's a peel. Peel, peel. You have to know pshat in Remaisha's teshuvos. Remaisha's teshuvah, because everybody eats it. Remaisha's teshuvah, it's like a peel. We spoke about this. We spoke about this. Okay, so egg white and egg yolk could be, could be. I stress the word could be because I agree, I assign and agree to all of the above. I assign and agree to all of the above that could be there are slight chilukim between that and the skin of a chicken.

It could be, it is the same kuvia, it's not the same, but I could hear that if a guy throws out egg yolk, which has a name for itself, egg yolk, and egg white is different than the skin of a chicken. The skin of a chicken doesn't have its own name, by the way, if you ever thought about that. It's skin of chicken. Egg white and egg yolk has a different name. That's what I felt. You feel differently, it's fine. I have no problem. I'm the last person to complain if you argue with me, okay? As a matter of fact, I invite, I invite the olam to argue and to say your own and to pasken the way you like, there's no problem. Just let me say my piece and we move on. Now, mixed nuts. I'm sure everybody, all the sefarim are going to tell you that the borer, the ones you don't like, is real borer. I have in the back of my mind a little, I guess, buggy that tells me it's not so poshut. A little bit something, a little voice, that was the word, it wasn't a buggy, I meant to say a voice in the back. But they come as a group, mixed nuts. Mixed nuts could be a thing for itself. You buy it as a... I don't want it. I want it separate. You want it separate, then you should have went and bought separate nuts. When you buy mixed nuts... That's right. Exactly what I told you. My yesod is a borer runs straight through all the sugyas, because it's all silverware. You buy mixed nuts, you're buying mixed nuts, that's what you buy. The only difference is chelboin and chelma could be a little different because it comes that way. So maybe I can't compare, even though it's yolk and white, but l'maaseh it comes as one entity. An egg is one entity, so it could be an egg is taka considered no borer when it's a mevushal. Mashenkein, mashenkein mixed nuts, someone had to go and put all the nuts together. So even though in the store it's sold and you bought it as a mixture, as one entity, I could hear, I could hear that it's not the same as an egg. But at the same time, if you want to be mechadesh, you could say it, and then you'll get screamed at and so on. It's a good vort. It's something to think about. Huh? I created a monster. This is what it is. I created a person that sits there. I would do the same thing. If you notice, I said that yoke, white, there's different names, mixed nuts. Notice that it doesn't have a different name, but it's called mixed nuts. So you could play with all these sevaros. I just want to bring it up because it's כדאי to think about all these things. What's considered shtei minim? What's considered min echad? Good. Now, what about matzos sheleimos u'shvuros for Lechem Mishneh? You want to pick out the shvuros because you want Lechem Mishneh, or you want to pick out the sheleimos for later for Lechem Mishneh, right? So what's the halacha by matzos sheleimos u'shvuros? Reb Shlomo Zalman assers it. Reb Elyashiv is matir it. Reb Shlomo Zalman says it's two minim. What do you mean? A person's makpid on sheleimos u'shvuros. It's Shmiras Shabbos K'hilchasa, perek gimmel, se'if katan chaf-ches. Where does Reb Elyashiv matir it? Ayin Mishnah Berurah. Go look in the sefer Ayin Mishnah Berurah. He brings from Reb Elyashiv. Reb Elyashiv says it's mutar. What, you don't remember such a thing? You remember it's mutar. Okay, we have the Shmiras Shabbos K'hilchasa here. If my notes are wrong, then I quit, because that's what I have. I have my notes. Guess what? I'm not ready to quit. I'm right. Sit down, and that's the word. It's the Shmiras Shabbos Kehilchasa, it's perek gimmel, se'if katan chaf-ches. Reb Shlomo Zalman writes clearly that it's aser, and Reb Elyashiv says it's mutar. What's the pshat Reb Elyashiv is saying it's mutar? It's the same din. What's the difference? Shleimus shvuros, what's the chamishah have to do with the metzius? The metzius is it's the same min. Different tashmish maybe? What, dak? Such a thing, Reb Elyashiv? Stam Reb Elyashiv knew the chiluk between dak and not dak, right? As it says, dak al daka, ein nidbak. ... There should be a chiluk in tashmishim, no? What do you do with taf-kuf? It's the sugya of taf-kuf daled, right? Taf-kuf daled, se'if katan chaf. What do you do with that Mishnah Berurah? Okay, so we have a machlokes, Reb Shlomo Zalman and Reb Elyashiv, about the broken matzos. Now I want to point out an interesting chiddush, that the olam does it, it's not so pashut. Everybody's makpid on matzah kefulah. If you have a matzah that's doubled over, the olam breaks it off and they eat. There's really no heter to break it off, by the way. If something you're not allowed to eat becomes pasul, so you're being mevatel the pesoles mitoch ochel. On Shabbos.

Unless you take. Unless you take with the other, very good. Huh? Right, so whatever it is, that piece is not aser, is not mutar. Something that's aser, something that's aser. So l'choira, let me tell you over a few things. There's a Magen Avraham in siman taf kuf sif katan yud beis that speaks about orlah, that orlah and regular, which are mixed together. So since it's an issur, right, peiros orlah aser, right? So the halacha is that there's a problem of borer. Magen Avraham taf kuf sif katan yud beis speaks about chametz. If, for example, let's say there's chametz, meaning a part of the chametz becomes wet, becomes chametzdik, so you want to take that out. So Magen Avraham says also there's a problem of borer, right? So the Magen Avraham— Is there a chiluk between when it's for sure chametz or just a... Is it de'oraisa borer or derabbanan borer? So the Magen Avraham says it's derabbanan borer. It's only midrabbanan; it's not mide'oraisa, the borer. Issur only makes borer, since it's the same min, it only makes it midrabbanan. So l'choira, hu hadin if the matzah kefulah, you're not allowed to eat it because of issur, unless you say, 'moydim k'moydim chiddush.' Since the issur itself is not a real issur—what's matzah kefulah? It's only a chumra ba'alma. What's matzah kefulah? It's chumra, noyeg, choshesh. It could be since the whole borer of the Magen Avraham is only derabbanan anyway, so in such a case you can be meikel on the matzah kefulah. Efsher that's the ta'am of the velt that they do it, because that's what the whole world does. They break off the matzah, they put it aside, they shtickel, that's kefulah. L'choira, nobody ever questioned the problem of— When you crack off a little bit, that's psoles. You're not allowed to eat that, so that's psoles b'toch ochel. What else is it? So if you take a nice chunk, it's nachbes. By the way, even that little chunk you take over is to be machmir, not to eat the chunk around the matzah food. You see a little bit around, huh? So do it. Is that what the Veld does? The Veld bedavka takes because of boirer? I know, I didn't know that. The Veld bedavka takes pieces because of boirer they take? Huh? Nobody, nobody, no one thinks of it. It's a meiri deka ara. L'choira it's a problem of boirer, unless you say since it's only a chumra ba'alma. So meila, even the Magen Avraham that never said it's de'oraisa, he only says it's rabbanan. Now I'm going to tell you five question scenarios. Yes or no? Does it have halacha of boirer? Is there a problem of boirer in the following cases? After we learn the bir halacha, the famous bir halacha, the Yishuv Yankiv, that the yesod of boirer is melacha she'eina tzricha l'gufah, and yet it's chayiv because it's tikun ochel. We don't look at the taking away the psoles, which you don't need, it's throwing out. Since what you're doing is fixing the ochel, meila it becomes melacha shetzricha l'gufah. So I have the following five questions I'd like to discuss with you and see what you hold. What happens if you take a little bit psoles, but you didn't take all of it? So if you remember correctly, we brought down from a bir halacha in siman shin mem, divrei hamaschil u'melaket, a Yerushalmi that says that you're patur. And the truth is he never said the word patur; he just said you're not chayiv. So we brought down a machlokes Rav Moshe and the Chazon Ish. The machlokes, the Chazon Ish and Rav Moshe. The Chazon Ish said it's asur to melaket some of the psoles, leaving some of the psoles, while Rav Moshe... V'chein l'dalet ... says that it's mutar. So we discussed this because each one learned the Yerushalmi a little different. That's what we spoke in the past, right? We said that one learned the Yerushalmi holds you're not chayiv mameila a patur, and R' Moshe learned that it's patur, right? And we said that it couldn't be that R' Moshe would pasken k'neged a mefurash Yerushalmi, unless he held that we don't pasken like that Yerushalmi, k'dei that we send the pes. Or the pshat is like the Chazon Ish in the Yerushalmi that it's patur v'la issur. Okay, if you remember this, we learned this, right? Remember we spoke about this Yerushalmi? Okay, so this is Yerushalmi. I don't want to go it over again because time conservation. L'maaseh, I'd like to clarify: is there a difference on how much pesilos I took and how much I left? In the case that they argue, R' Moshe and the Chazon Ish, is even if I took just a little bit, I left a little bit off. Let's say I took a lot of the pesilos and I left a little bit. Ah, would R' Moshe hold that that's mutar? Or the other way around, where I took just a little bit of the pesilos and I left a lot of it, right? I took a little bit and I left a lot. Would that still be asur, according to the Chazon Ish? So the truth is, R' Paltiel, if you remember correctly, it's a little bit of what you asked.

Last night, I have some of the sauce, right? I don't want all of it, so some of it I took back. Whatever, I'm saying in that case, whatever I took is what I didn't want. What you didn't want, right. But it's still left over, right, because you still wanted a little bit. So it's not an exact same case. Forget about his case. I just—it's an interesting... okay? So l'choira, this is a shaila. The machlokes, the Chazon Ish and the Mishnah Berurah and the Remaisha, what's the case? Is the case I took away all the pesailes, most of it, left a little bit, and that the Chazon Ish holds af al pi kein is—okay, Remaisha is going to hold af al pi kein it's mutar? Or maybe the other way around, the shaila would be: if I took just a little bit, would the Chazon Ish hold it's still aser? Let's add boirer, both of them l'achar zman. We take both of them for afterwards. I'm not eating either one now. Take two minim, and I'm boirer shneihem l'achar zman. So the Biur Halacha, shin yud tes, the Rama's, ha'oyleh l'fanav says it's still aser. If I'm boirer for later, it's still aser. What happens the other way around? I'm boirer min mimin for l'alter. For example, I want to eat both of them now, but I want to eat first one and then the other. I'm boirer shneihem for l'achar zman. I want this and this separated for later. So that Mishnah Berurah says that it becomes aser. What about the other way around? I'm boirer shneihem for l'alter, but to eat one and then to eat the other. I'm taking the one I don't want. I'm taking the one I don't— I push away the one I don't want. I'm gonna eat it soon. But first I'm gonna eat the one I do want. So what would be the tzad de'asheilah? Tzad de'sheilah are very poshut. If you learn that l'alter is a din heter achilah, so maybe it has to be that I have to eat it now. It has to be derech achilah. If the heter of l'alter is derech achilah, so if I push it away, the psailos, I'm not eating it now, so that's not called derech achilah. If you learn that the pshat in l'alter is because otherwise it's borer l'otzar, as long as both of them are l'alter, maybe it's not borer l'otzar anymore. This is a machlokes Reb Elyashiv, and I have a psak from Reb Dovid that Reb Moshe held differently. Reb Elyashiv in Ohel Moshe, perek vav, se'if yud-daled says that it's called b'alter. Even though I'm pushing it away, one, to eat later, so I'm pushing away the one to eat later. That's called l'alter, because l'maaseh it's l'alter, it's not l'otzar. I hold Reb Elyashiv held anything that's not l'otzar is l'alter. Mashenkin Reb Dovid told me that Reb Moshe held that that's called borer, because it has to be l'alter for right now. So you have a very nice machlokes, Reb Elyashiv and pshat Reb Moshe. Reb Moshe held it has to be derech achilah. That's not called derech achilah, that's called borer. I'm separating the psailos from the ochel. That's not called derech achilah. Okay. Possible, possible that the she'eilah is not on the same plate. Let's say on the same plate I push away one thing because I want to eat it after, because I push away the rice from the chicken because I want to first eat the chicken. I don't know if that, that Reb Moshe would say is asur. It could be Reb Moshe meant for dessert, like I want to take away something for, let's say, a chreisa, a shtickel chicken from the soup to eat it later with the— Oh, that's something. I don't know if that's what R'moisha meant. Otherwise it comes out, I'm being mechadesh. Otherwise it comes out, on the same plate I can't push away, if it's a shtickel me'ur, if I can't push away what I don't want to eat right this minute, like if I want to come... No, but it's a mechadesh point, R'moisha. On the same plate, I have to be careful on how I eat, unless you say that that R'moisha didn't mean in such a case. R'moisha meant it if I take now for later, meaning not in the same course, for a different course. I don't know. Maybe one time, next time I speak through David, I'll ask Reb David shat in this psak. Okay, question number three. In the heter of borer l'alter, he does it l'acher. Not for you, but it's l'acher. So we learned about this from a Pri Megadim, Mishnah Berurah, siman yud-tes, Mishbetzos Zahav, se'if katan beis, that it's mutar. What's called l'alter? It's a very nice shaila. If you're being borer for the other person, so what is l'alter, that he has to eat it right away? No, l'acher has all the same klalim of l'alter, of what your l'alter is, loy l'seudah. It doesn't have to be I'm borer now and I'm the... Okay. But what happens, I'm not really borer it for him, but I'm borer because I don't want it. Sometimes you don't want a certain piece of the chavis or whatever it is, and then you give it to the other guy. Would that be called you are being borer פסולת מתוך האוכל?

Or would you call that that I'm being boir, pseulos l'oich for the other person l'alter? Das is geret zum zach. Okay. Reb Shlomo Zalman, in Shemiras Shabbos k'Hilchasah, perek gimmel, halacha gimmel, says clearly that even if you're boir what you don't want, but you're giving it to the other guy, so that saves the pesoles mitoch ochel. That's it. For him it's not pesoles; for him you're allowed to be boirer. Okay. Rav Nissim Karelitz says that this is not called boirer l'alter, because you're really being boirer your pesoles. Ma'aseh, you're doing a ma'aseh tikun ochel for you. The whole sevara is that it's called what? Not tikun b'derech achilah for the other guy, but you're first doing it derech tikun ochel for you. So if you don't want something, and therefore you take it out and then you give it to the other guy, then it becomes what? Regular boirer. But so what? But it's derech boirer for you. That's the chap here. What would you be matir? Very nice. I want to point out that even according to Reb Shlomo Zalman's heter, there wouldn't be a sevara of l'alter for the oisah seudah. In other words, let's say you boirer what you don't want. It has to be that the guy is there to get it to eat. I don't believe Reb Shlomo Zalman holds that you're allowed to be boirer it, to put it on the table and whoever wants it can eat it. If you have a child, if you have chicken for the child. So if you take it out, if you take it out, yeah, and you boirer it because you don't want it, the sevara of l'alter has to be a real alter. You can't use the sevara of l'alter of oisah seudah. You have to make sure someone eats it, unless, or you think that someone—you know you're doing it for somebody. If he rather doesn't eat it, it's not your problem, but you have to be doing it for somebody. Okay. What happens—Mariv and I have to go weiter. Okay, so I'll tell you what we'll do. I guess we daven Maariv, and after Maariv we'll finish. We're up to case daled. I have five shailos in Hilchos Borer, and then we move on, okay? And then we say Tam v'nishlam on the sugya of borer. Maariv, yeah? Okay, Maariv. We're off.