Hilchos Niddah, Siman 195: Eating at One Table, Heker, Shinui, and Harchakos

Transcript

I mean, siman kuf tzadik hei, se'if gimel, Rama, right? Gimel, the mechaber, the Rama, hekker. Now I want to be me'oirer that this se'if, many poskim pasken according to their instincts and feelings. It is, it's not, it's, it feels, it's, it is, you should be more careful. And the truth is, maybe it's based on the machlokes that we spoke. Is the ta'am of lo yochel imo b'rechicha? I guess it's up for, I guess, discussion. It's up for evaluation what's chibah. She'ein kein, if you learn Hergel, it's not a question of, you know, what do you feel. It's not a question of feeling. Is it hergel? Is it not hergel? Does it fall into halachos? Doesn't fall into halachos? I just want you to know that I believe that it's deeper than just this se'if, and I want you to understand this when you pasken a she'eilah. There is two attitudes towards psak halachah, one in the Chassidish world and one in the Litvish world. I analyzed this very much. I've analyzed it. I've thought about it, and I've listened, and I've studied the different poskim to find the mazakt. What is the basis of their psak? And I find the Chassidim pasken very much with svara. Svara and teshuvos. Svara and teshuvos, which means is by them any teshuva sefer is from the previous generation, kodesh kedashim, can't touch it. And things that are not in the teshuvos, it's svara. In the Litvisha world, in the Litvisha poskim, it's hagdara. You have to be magdir the din, and according to the hagdara, yes, no. They don't even care so much about the poskim, the teshuvos; it's irrelevant. What's the yesod of the din? You know, there was a big machloikes. Now I speak about it only because the oilam here knows it. Rabbi Yoshe Ber, Rabbi Roth, it was like a whole—turned into a whole mess. Now, I used to learn by Rabbi Roth. I got a call from a Litvisha, quote-unquote, yungerman, that's into psak. He says, How could a person like you— that makes sense to me. Makes sense. How could you do it? That makes sense. So I told him that from your perspective of what psak halacha is, there's no way for you— from your perspective of what psak halacha is, there's no way for you to understand why he paskens the way he does. No way for you to understand. So the point is mute, and the argument is irrelevant, and therefore I'm just not going to even leave it alone. That's all. I'll just tell you it's a different way of pasht. Okay, you missed the juicy part of the shiur. You know, when you discuss this siman, it's all by the whims of feelings. It is, it's not. It's hachacha, should be machmir, should be machmir. A lot of it has to do with emotion and hergesh and sevaras. And I spoke to poskim about this, that this siman is very conducive, conducive to sevaras, sevaras and feelings. And a lot of people say that, but it's not right, you know. And like I told you, whatever the chachamim said, they said, and whatever they didn't say, they didn't say. So, for example, like to go and understand why you're not allowed to sit at this table and drink a cup of soda, but at the same time you're allowed to sit at a table and schmooze about whatever you want. You would say the sevara is hafucha. You sit, you schmooze about life and kveis and good times about your wedding, you can sit and schmooze about your wedding. That's not a problem? No. To drink a cup of water, it's a problem. The Litvaks are going to say, but that's what the chachamim said. That's it. That's what it says, okay? This seif, because it's about chibah, so therefore...

A lot of small research said, Is that right? Is that wrong? So I want you to know that I don't think it has anything to do, per se, with this seif. I think it's all seifim and all Shulchan Aruch. There's an entirely different gisha, approach—the word gisha is an approach—between Chassidim and Litvishim on how to pasken. And I won't go into Reb Avadi, because Reb Avadi, we know it's a lot about pekius. That I understand. That's obvious. But I'm talking about chidush in psak. A person wants to make a new psak. So the Litvisha and the Chassidim have different approaches. The Chassidisha are going to go and say, Svara, svara. If it's like this over here, so meila it's got to be over here too, the same thing. And if this gadol in the previous generation said this, meila hu hadin, it's this. The Litvisha are going to work with hagdarah. You have to be magdir. What's the yesod? Once you get the yesod hadin, then you can say, Does it fit into this yesod of issur? Fine. Does it fit into the yesod of heter? Then it's mutar. Okay. Like I said to you, the machlokes between Rabbi Ruv and Rabbi Elyashiv was a classic case of this. Very classic, very classic. And the only people that could see it is people from the inside. I've spoken to Rabbi Elyashiv many times. I've spoken to Rabbi Ruv through learning, and it's so evident, the different approach, that, like Korach, not one can understand the other one, what the other one wants. And like I said, I got the phone calls, you know, Itach, you learn over there by Rabbi Ruv, and the answer was, There's no way for you to understand this. There's just no way for you. You see, the literature, it's a whole different approach. L'maaseh, l'maaseh. So what are you going to come and say? Should we taka work with sevaras? You know, in learning it's obvious that if you're a magdir the yesodes well, you could possibly be. It's very hard to deny that. The bigger the posek is, the person who understands the yesodes of halacha, no question. Now, I'll just quote you what Rebelsky said. Rebelsky said to me, I know he says on the tapes all the time, whenever you want to come and say that today it does apply or doesn't apply because it's different, he says, first of all, you have to be a mumcheh to understand what was in those days, which is historian, so to speak. You know, you gotta know, you gotta really research. And then you gotta know that taka today is different. It's very easy to say today is different. You know, you did a survey? How do you know today? What, because in your house it's different? And then you have to know if the difference that you are making between what it said then and what it says now is taka nemes a difference. Maybe it's taka not even a difference, which means I guess you have to be a chacham and be a talmid chacham. I guess that's what he's trying to say. So first of all, you have to know science of the hoveh, and you have to know that you're wise enough to medame milsa l'milsa and a talmid chacham enough to medame milsa l'milsa. So basically, you have to really know before you pasken a shaila. Okay. As I said, it's a hakdamah to this siman because— I know we've said a lot of svaras in the last few days, but I don't know if you noticed, I first work with hagdarah. I always start with hagdarah, and then I try to fit it into the geder of the din. I didn't just say, Well, whatever is chibah, yeah, chibah, so you know what? So he's come tell me. I don't have chibah when I go to the restaurant. I do have chibah when I go to the restaurant. Leave me alone. I don't know. I can't sit there and start addressing every person's emotions. Can't do it. Can't do it. Maybe that's what Chazal did. Chazal took a consensus, so to speak. Roiv. Huh? Roiv. Here, you know, I'll give you another example. Yeah, we're doing chatzitzah. Give you the papers. What's called a chatzitzah? Roiv u'makpid, right? Chatzitzah is roiv u'makpid. Who's supposed to be makpid? Who? Who's makpid? Person. When we say makpid, who? This person? So there's a whole diyun in the Acharonim. No. We go after roiv bnei adam, most people. Okay. So what do you call roiv? Roiv women who go to the mikvah? Roiv Jews? Roiv what?

Rov people of your place, so that means in your place they're makpid. So there's a teshuva from Reb Chaim Ozer, and Reb Chaim Ozer writes, Rov anshei ha'olam. It doesn't have to be rov people who are toivel. Rov anshei ha'olam. In svara, it's really... in svara, it's very difficult, right? How would you know what rov anshei ha'olam do? What, you have to go onto the internet and then check what rov anshei ha'olam do? You know that the society, what do we call that, the norms of America is completely different in India. Israel. I'm saying, Israel you could both say Jews, it's more... Start from Bangladesh. You know, maybe I'll go to Afghanistan. Maybe, Reb Chaim Ozer, when we go to Afghanistan, I'm sure they're not makpid on anything over there. I'm sure that the women, they're not makpid, especially if you'd cover from head to toe, what's there to be makpid about? Besides, if you see what the husband looks like, who cares what the wife looks like, right? I'm just saying. You know what it is? I want you to think. I don't want you to be, you know what it is, closed-minded in halacha. You gotta think. What does it mean? I don't even know what it means. You want to know something? I was thinking about it. Maybe not. Maybe that's not what Reb Chaim Ozer meant. When he said rov, he meant rov of the people around you. Otherwise, why do I care rov olam? What, I'm gonna start going to the Chinese? They eat shrotzim, they eat shkatzim, they're dirty. I mean, what are you talking about? Well, you're gonna say what a Borough Park woman's makpid on is the same thing that a woman in Afghanistan is makpid on? What does he mean by rov anshei ha'olam? I don't even know what he means. She means, right, Yehudim sheba... I don't even know. I don't know. It's interesting. What I'm trying to say is, over here too, chibah. You know, every person feels differently than the other person, you know that? Every person in the world has different things, which, let's use the English terminology, I guess we're older people, which turn them on. But I'm supposed to know with it. So then you could come and say that the Chachamim gave rules. So wait a minute, ad hachak is derabbanan. So whatever hei amru vhei amru, it's only what they said. If you hold that ad hachak is—some of them are more than just derabbanan, right? Serious derabbanan, right? I'm saying, so they knew what's—maybe, you know, a person would come and say what Chazal—they didn't have refrigerators in the times of Chazal. Maybe with our yetzer hara it's a lot different. You shouldn't even be in the same house with your wife. I don't—I'm trying to—tell me it's not a legitimate shaila. I mean, Chacham said, whoever Chacham, Chacham gadol, tzaddik olam. Unless you say that the Chacham, even though they're tzaddikei olam, they were smart enough to know what we're going to be eventually. In other words, they're not even talking to us; they're talking to right before Moshiach's time, the lowest of the lowest. At least are these halachos. I don't know, but why don't you think about this? You see, I don't even want to answer this question, but I think to pasken a shaila, you have to go down to the bottom. What is this siman all about? Okay, this hakdamah is general for the whole siman. What's the geder to this se'if and this particular halacha? Let's go with one hakdarah, a chakirah, all right? Is the inyan of hefsek, shinui, whatever you want to call it... Is it a siman? You put a siman, that's going to remind you, so to speak. Or is it a chitzah, separation, to have a separation between the husband and the wife? The Shulchan Aruch uses the lashon, shehei shum davar mafsik. It does use the word mafsik. I know he also does, but you know I'm here for that reason. I'm here to answer that, right? But I could first point out the word mafsik, right? You made this deal, bad. That means you're learning, right? That means you were taught by me how to learn, because that's what I do. I right away zoom in on the word mafsik. Now, I do want to tell you that it doesn't say chitzah, it says mafsik. Mafsik thereinai, the gematria, as a siman. I don't think it means hefsek as in mechitzah. Okay, so that's also what I'm pretty much saying there, right? That I didn't say chitzah, I said mafsik. That's exactly what I'm saying. The word mafsik, at first, what do I call it at first glance? Strikes you as hefsek, separation, chitzah. Yeah, but wait a minute. I don't know. I mean, you know that.

The Acharonim ask this first shaila: is it mafsik, or is it — is it mechitzah, or is it heker? So let's do our own research on it. Mafsik — mafsik is mafsik mechitzah. Yeah, but if he meant mechitzah, he could have said choitzetz. Maybe mafsik doesn't mean mechitzah. Like Elon said, it's so beautiful. Mafsik just means there's something intruding — that's the word — something, huh, which memeila makes it that it's different, and therefore, okay. He definitely writes the word shinui. That you can't run away from, right? Elam kein yesh shum shinui. So you see, it's not just a mafsik. It is, let's say, mafsik, but it has something to do with shinui also. So I hold that the pshat is emes, that the mafsik is the shinui. It says it over there also. Wow, he gets text messages pshatim on the Shulchan Aruch. That's amazing. You know, I might have to make you sit next to me. I feel very funny. I think it was third grade. I was saying, Come on, tell me, how did you learn? Very nice shaila, no? Mafsik is mafsik chatzitzah; shinui is mafsik shinui. So everybody's going to say that the pshat is that if it's mafsik, mimeila that is a shinui. I don't think so. I would say it the other way around. The fact that it's a shinui, that itself is mafsik. You said it very good. I like the way you said it, but you were trying to undermine the mechitzah sheboi. I'm using what you're saying to me, that's the mechitzah. It doesn't have to be mamish with nails. I sit there with a nail, put up a mechitzah. And the way it's done in Satmar and in Klausenberg and Williamsburg, a mechitzah to the sky. You don't need that. That's not the point. Tell me, is there shayach a mechitzah which is—what do they call that? You can't see it. What do they call that in English? Huh? Translucent, but whatever. Okay, whatever. Huh? Transparent, translucent. Okay, you guys are too collegey for me. There's an English word, just the word itself. It's a—huh? Illusionary mechitzah, okay? What does it mean? I'll tell you what it means. I'll tell you what it means. Here, I'll give you an example. Let's say, just for argument's sake, you know when you have a dog, there's no mashal without nimshal. You have a dog and you don't want the dog to run off your yard, right? So they have a mechitzah, but it's not a mechitzah. You know what it is? It's that when he passes it, it gives a zap. Yeah, yeah. Right? It zaps you. It's a mechitzah. It's chotzetz. It's stopping you. There's no mechitzah there, right? It's chotzetz without having the actual mechitzah. Let me ask you a shaylah. If let's say in a shul they would have this zapping thing, right? This electrical current, right? Electrical wall, whatever they call it. Would that be good for men and ladies? I don't know if that would be good. Just go into a conservative shul, you hear, and you make it frum. You know how you make it frum? You put up an electronic mechitzah. To anybody who pisses gets zapped. Why are you laughing? I think it's a great idea. It's a tremendous invention. They don't know about it. Nobody's gonna care. They're not gonna care. Well, unless they do care. Maybe they talk and want to dance with them. So maybe they want to pray with them. I don't know. Maybe they... But if they don't go, if officially they don't go from one to the other, I don't think they do. It's just that they have to sit without the mechitza, because the mechitza makes them crazy. They can't. They feel like choking. They become claustrophobic if there's a mechitza there, right? So you put up an electronic zapping mechitza. It's good. Of course it's not gonna work. Why not? Because there's two things in a mechitza. One is that it's chotzetz, and one is the result of the chatzitza, which means that it's two separate places. It makes it two separate rooms. The inyan of mechitza in a shul is that it should be two separate rooms. Mechitza over here is not that you should be in two separate places. Tell me, does that have all the halachos of mechitza? Halachos of mechitza? Okay. Lechazeh, pashut, lizlo ayaf kol kach pashut, ad shebati lhagdarah nechonah, lo, zlo ayaf kol kach pashut. אני מתכוון שהשולחן ערוך מתחיל מזה שיהיה שינוי, ואז זה מביא את ההפסק לשינוי. זאת אומרת, ההפסק... זאת אומרת שאתה הבנת מה שאני... זאתו. That's what it says.

What it says is, you understood that when the Acharonim talk about a hefsek, they don't mean a hefsek. They mean a shinui, and the shinui makes the hefsek. He's making faces. It's good, I like when he makes faces. He looks cute that way. When they make faces, they look very cute. Now let me explain to you, in the next hour, what I gained from all this, okay? What did I have from all this? Do you understand the difference? Certain things are a mechitza, mafsik, and certain things, the shinui itself creates the mechitza here. How big is this? Just, I'm going to talk about later, but how big is this hefsek that you have? You know how big it is? It can be anything. It can be a ring. It can be nothing. Okay, so we'll talk about that. I said I don't want to talk about it yet. I don't want to talk about it yet, but pashut it can be anything, all right? Now you know the story with R' Moshe and the Satmar Rav, right? You know the story. R' Moshe was matir very small mechitzah, everybody knows that, right? So the Satmar Rav and R' Moshe were once together being menachem avel. So the Satmar Rav gave R' Moshe shalom aleichem. So R' Moshe said, Beis avel, you don't give a shalom aleichem beis avel. So he turned to the little boxes that the aveilim sit on. He said, To you that's a mechitzah, so what's the problem? R' Moshe got him back, don't worry about it. R' Moshe got him back. Satmar Rav, you know, he started to daven Mincha, it was ten o'clock at night. After the nichum aveilim, he wanted to know if he can make a minyan for Mincha. See, ask Reb Moshe if Reb Moshe daven Mincha yet today. You know Reb Moshe answered. I did yesterday, not today. Yesterday I already davened Mincha, though. Anyways, could you imagine a person has a mechitza, which is a ring, a dime, a nickel. A nickel. He puts a nickel down. Wow. You should know, if you would pasken the mechitza for the Conservative shul and the Reform shul, put a nickel, you'd be the biggest rabbi. They would take you. You know what you'd say? Look in Hilchos Niddah, Hilchos Niddah, it's a mechitza. Why are you laughing? You know that over here is a whole shaila if you can compare it to the mechitza basa mechalah. When you eat basar b'chalav on the same table. So you saw the Taz, the Shach, the Acharonim, they discussed: is it like basar b'chalav, not like basar b'chalav? So what are they telling me? They're telling me what I'm saying, in other words. You know what they're saying? Let's understand what the din mechitza is. Is it like basar b'chalav? Is it maybe a little more than basar b'chalav? What is it by basar b'chalav? Is it heker? I don't know. Or maybe it's just to make it that we shouldn't be sitting on the same table, like mechitza, huh? It's true we shouldn't be sitting on the same table, so it's more mechitza. It's not heker. Or the pshat is, it's that we shouldn't come together, so maybe it's heker, but basar b'chalav. I don't want to go further than this. I'm just opening up your eye to concentrate and, what do we call that, contemplate. What is this din? What is it, hefsek? Is it chinui? And I hold, halacha l'maaseh, after thinking it through, that there's no din hefsek. It's a din shinui, and the shinui makes the hefsek. And that's what the mechaber means. Ela im kein yesh shum shinui. He starts off with the shinui. The shinui is sheyehei mafsik. The shinui is going to be mafsik. What do I have in this? A lot of nafkaminas lahalacha. Zeh atah yachol להגיד. אני לא בטוח עדיין, אני אגיד את זה, אני אדייק מזה, אני אדבר על זה. אבל גם זה לא פשוט. גם זה המפה, אולי איזה שתי שולחנות, אולי זה היכר. נדבר על זה. נדבר על זה. אבל בינתיים, בוא, מה שכתוב פה. Shinui chotzetz. The shinui is the chotzetz. Now what do I have in this? Listen carefully. When we say shinui, does the thing itself have to be a davar meshuneh? שיהיה שום שינוי. אלא אם כן יש שום שינוי. כמה? שיהיה שום דבר, mafsik בין קיירא שלו לקיירא שלו.

Or the pshat is that itself is the shinui. There's that there's a hefsek between the two kairis. So now we're saying an interesting thing. A, we're learning that the shinui makes the hefsek, but then all of a sudden we're clarifying maybe the hefsek itself is also the shinui. Very interesting. Let's figure it out. There's a shinui, and the shinui is the hefsek. Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe the hefsek is the shinui. The fact that there's a—well, you need something mishunah. So, for example, what happens if I take, you hear, if I take something which is not mishunah, normally supposed to be on the table, say a ketchup bottle, okay, just for argument's sake. You know, in America you can't eat anything without ketchup. They put the ketchup between the husband and the wife, and they keep on taking from it. So we're still going to learn that you don't have to take from it and then it turns into a shinui. If you decide that you both want to take from it, it turns into a shinui, okay? It's not mishunah. There's nothing mishunah about it, nothing weird about the ketchup bottle. So bishlema if you went and you took, ichveisa, you took mushrooms, a can of mushrooms, and you put it over there, yeah, it's mishunah. It doesn't belong on the table. But if you took a ketchup bottle which belongs on the table, maybe the fact that it's bein hakairis, that's the shinui, yeah? The lashon of the Shulchan Aruch is mashma that the thing itself doesn't have to be mishunah. El im kein, el im kein, yesh shum shinui, that there should be a shinui, sheyesh shum davar hamafsik bein kairis shelo l'kairis shelo. And he brings classic examples: lechem hakankan, lechem hakankan, stuff that's on the table all the time. Bottles and then bread. What more classic? The Shulchan Aruch took the most two classic things that are on a table: a bottle and a bread. So the shinui obviously is just that it's between the two kairos. That's clear. It's almost—yes. So the Acharonim say there is, but that's, I don't think it's relevant really right now. In other words, the point is, either way, it's not something which is mishunah. Not something which is mishunah. You're right. Some say that lechem doesn't mean pieces of bread; lechem means a whole kikar, and it doesn't belong, a whole kikar, again, between the two plates. It belongs on the table, though, unless in the old days they didn't put out a whole kikar; they cut it up first. I know the Acharonim talk about the full loaf of bread. Does he mean the full loaf of bread uncut? Maybe it's even a full loaf of bread cut. Where does it—I'm seeing in the Acharonim that discuss it, the idea is shalem afukei perusah, one slice. And when it says lechem, it has to mean a full one. Well, I'm saying it's a whole different thing. And what happens if it's a whole loaf of bread that is cut up, just doesn't belong there? No one puts between his husband and wife a full loaf of bread. It's in the middle of the table. You see, it's not clear. You know, when you start reading and start saying, what happens if it's a full loaf of bread? You don't even realize what you're asking me. Full loaf of bread cut, not cut. I understand what I'm explaining to you, that even that—maybe not, maybe. You know, maybe that's what I'm trying to say. I don't know. Either way. I don't know if it's about the cheftza that's meshunah, which some Acharonim say that has to do with the cheftza that's meshunah. Or pashut has to do, in the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch, it has to do with where it's placed. If it's placed in a way that it's meshunah between the two kairos, okay. Lechem, kan kan, like I'm telling you. Kan kan is his meshunah. Lechem, if it's a whole slice of bread, maybe a whole loaf of bread. Kan kan. Unless I was thinking maybe kan kan is the big jug. Who puts a jug on the table? And I remember my bubby, Aleha hashalom, taught us a lot of ethics. She was a Chofetz Chaim talmidah, talmidah. She grew up in Radin. So everything she spoke and everything she did, it couldn't be gross. And I don't mean gross ugly, I mean gross big. Lagrand. Lagrand was not proper. Not to be. You notice that when we drink cups of coffee in America, there's ten gulpers. You ever noticed a cup of coffee? Large. This is called a small. Small, medium, large, extra large. Big gulp. Big gulp, yeah? Big gulp, with ice on top. You know, in Europe when they drink coffee, tiny little...

It has to do with sneeze. It has to do with... it has to do with mentality. When you drink, you don't pour full, a little bit, a little bit. No, it has to do with—it's a chinuch. It's a European chinuch. So I remember my Bubby, aleha hashalom, did not let the big bottles of soda when they came out. You remember the big bottles of soda? It used to be the small one, the two liters. To you already three liters is the big one. The two liters she didn't let. They had the small one, the one liters. She used to have one-liter soda on the table, and she refused—remember this? She refused to have it. You don't remember this? She used to have two-liter soda. Wait. So I remember my father used to tell her, 'Ah, you're wasting money. For the same price of the two-liter, you're getting one liter. Don't you understand?' She says, 'Ich ken nisht, ich ken nisht legen di big bottles lach auf the table. I just can't put the big bottles on the table.' Now you see the difference between then and now. You see, I know some of the difference between then and now. Not everybody does, but all right, neither here nor there. The point being, I forget, ich ken nisht... chaffaint. I remember she used to say, 'Chaffaint. I hate the big bottles on the table. I can't take it. I can't take it. Chaffaint, the big bottles.' I remember there was a tekufa that we forced her, and we bought it, we went and we put it on the table, and then we even came up with a chiddush, you hear? So let's buy the big ones and put the little ones. Ma, what are you doing? No. Just can't stand looking at the big bottles. I can't stand. I'm willing to pay double. Go ask my—it's a chinuch. You got to ask my brothers about it. It was years and years, the big bottles on the—small bottles on the table. Kan kan. What's a kan kan? U'minoiser kankanim naaset neis lashoshanim. Kan kan, big or small. I was thinking about it. Maybe kankan, big jug, doesn't belong on the table. Well, maybe truthfully, I think kankan. Small. Mashma small, no? Menaisa kankanin. Tell me, how many Rosh Yeshivas you know give shiurim and learn ... raayos from ... from chanukah? But I'm right, no? I understand. What is the word kankan? Big? Tell me, there's your cheating book, and what's the one you have now for this moment? Avnei what? It's ... very big. You should know. He's ... you should know. He's a genius in learning. The guy is unbelievable. I want you to know this guy is unbelievable. No, no, no, no, no, this guy, yes, you should know. It's not like ... he knows, knows the sugya. You see, the guy knows what he's talking about. Nah, he's a classic, a classic case. Okay, so take a different one so I can make fun of you. Take out another one. This one's also very good. The guy's beating me up. Rav ... I get what do you want? Give me the other ones, the other ones. ... Bottom line, it's okay, you're not missing much. Stick with this. This is better. Okay, you listening carefully? So, oh, I want to know, translate the word. You know, everybody translates the word lechem, because that's the pasuk. Lechem, do you mean a full loaf, big, a grande, a big, big loaf, or do you mean prusah? How about kankan? Nobody touches it. Nobody touches it. Nobody. I went to look, nobody touched it. Kankan is a cover. Okay, so you're gonna write this down. ... kankan is big, is kankan small? I don't know. All right. Point B, pashtus, pashtus. There's nothing different about it. Kankan is regular, and lechem is regular, and af al pi kein it's a shinui. What's the shinui? The fact—I want you to know, the simcha I have in my heart to teach you this, simply because I know I'm telling you the truth. You have no idea the truth. It's true. Learn the Shulchan Aruch. Learn kankan. What does it mean? What is bigger? It makes a very big difference. Is it normal for the kankan? It doesn't say it. It doesn't say it anywhere. I went to look. It doesn't say it anywhere. Maybe kankan is such a big zach. Kankan could be a serving thing. It's not a cup. Kankan maybe is a serving thing. It doesn't belong on the table. I don't know. It's important to know this. Okay, now. So what is it l'maaseh? Now, does it mamish have to be mafsik? I mean, the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch is mafsik, right? You know what I could say? That the word mafsik is just hypothetical. I don't mean mamish, mamish, like a brisker, mamish mafsik. It doesn't mean mamish. Shinui, and the shinui is the mafsik.

Doesn't mean that the cheftza of the thing has to be mafsik. If the word is that it's all about shinui, so the shinui, like you said, catches the eye, and then that's the choitzitz. Especially if you don't learn that it means mamish chatzitza, choitzitz. Why aren't you paying attention to me, huh? You're sleeping. I see you're not there. You'd be jumping. You'd be screaming, Come sit next to me. Come. Like this I can hit you. Come here, sit down over here. Why do you have a bench? I'll tell you. I'm not telling you beautiful stuff, because you're not screaming back and you're not fighting with me. I need that you should sit there, look at me. Wherever I go, people look at me. I want people to fight with me. I'm not interested. Sit down here and learn with me. What do you have to chatter? You know, Rav Shimon Shkop, he once said a shit, you know, Rav Shimon used to say shiur in yeshiva, holiness, right? And the way they used to do is like where Rav Shach, he used to scream and yell on everything he said. So the older guys in yeshiva went over to the younger guys and said, You know, there's a very big problem. Because while you're fighting, you hear, he says nothing. He says a kashya and teretz, and we end up with nothing. You know, let him say the shiur, then... So they said, It's a good idea, and then we won't ask. So Rav Shimon asks a kashya, and he waits for the oilam to start roaring, and nothing. Maybe the kashya, he doesn't know. Says a teretz, no one says anything. Then he chap what happened, because in the beginning maybe he's not saying good, but then he chapped it. He went down and he said, In a beis hakvaros you're not allowed to learn Torah. This is a beis hakvaros. One day when you give shiur, you'll look around, you'll see people... You think you want to give shiur? You think I want to give shiur and everybody's just dreaming about something else? Let's go, let's go. Okay, now, lefi zeh — don't worry, his father takes good care of me, special deal with his dad, okay? Now, im tzarich b'emes, sheyehei mafsik. Or, like Elon said, gevaldik, it's the shinui itself which is a subliminal mafsik, not mamash mafsik, mafsik. Okay. So l'choireh it's תלוי. If you learn that it's all about heker, so it doesn't have to really be mafsik, technically, okay? But if you learn that choitzetz, you want it to separate between the two, then you would need it, right? Choitzetz. This is pretty much more or less said in Acharonim; it's not my vort, it's pashut, okay? Yeah, if you learn it's al heker, so then it doesn't have to be there. Ma'aseh says bein kaira l'kaira, so I don't know. So the teretz is, it doesn't mean that. It means that through the heker you'll have a hefsek. Yeah, it's not beautiful in the word, but there are poskim that say that, that it doesn't have to mamash be bein kaira l'kaira, okay? So why do the ...? I don't know. Once again, don't get me wrong, I'm with you. I would say it means literally, the bein kaira l'kaira, okay. Though, I want to point out something interesting, yeah. Let's say you put on the table behind bottles, behind chaves, other dishes, and it's not noticeable. Let's say you have a full table set, right? You take the heker, and it's taka not bein kaira l'kaira, so it's not in front of you, right? It's somewhere on the table. Now you know there's a maze which thing doesn't really belong. You ever notice those things they give for the children? They have a good thing, which, find the Googie clown in the middle of the picture. You gotta look for it, you gotta search it. What happens if you have a heker like that? You gotta search for the heker. There, I found it. It's over there. Is that good enough? So l'choira, he's going, No, of course not, because— Why not? Can you see it? Not this. It doesn't remind you. The whole thing is to remind you. It's not reminding you. You need a reminder to remember that it's there, no? So why don't you just put, like, a screen right here and say, Listen, that's it. So what's wrong if I'm gonna talk about that? Maybe it's a good idea to do that. Maybe. Maybe it's a good idea. Maybe you should do it. Let's discuss it. I'm gonna tell you maybe you should do it. But here's the shayla, you hear? What happens if the heker needs investigation? It needs to— it needs charisha, bedikah, what do you call that? Drisha v'chakirah to find it. Okay. So vadai everybody's gonna say, You guys are young poskim, lucky. That's not good, right? I'm gonna teach you maybe a way how to look at it that it could be good. Okay, you ready? I'm gonna teach how it could be good. Excuse me.

Eshi kashu. What does it mean by bein kaira, between his kaira and her kaira? I mean, it doesn't have to be according to the poskim, so why would he say that? I'm going to give you a teretz. You ready? It doesn't have to be on the shulchan. Could it be a heker which is not on the shulchan? You don't have to be so artistic. The heker's over there, right there. You look on the buffet and there's a big weird jug. Or I'll give you one other weird case. A guy put up a patek, he put up a sign, by the way, you have to be careful. You want another case? Shomer. You want a case which is brought in Beis Yosef? I'll give you a case brought in Beis Yosef. What happens if they put something in the middle over there, between the two of them? A man is sitting there. There's no heker on the table, just someone sitting over there. A child. We'll discuss the pratim of these cases later, but I'm giving you examples where it's not mamash al ha-shulchan. So if you notice that it doesn't say it over here. Wouldn't it be nice for the Shulchan Aruch to bring down what he himself brought down from Rabbeinu Yerucham and the Beis Yosef? He brings in the Beis Yosef this case. What happens if there's a child between, or someone sitting in between, then there's no problem. You don't need the heker al ha-shulchan. We didn't pasken that way. Why not? So since you're ספרדים, I'll tell you, the ספרד, the Shulchan Gadol, etc., Rav Ben Tzion Abba Shaul, in Yechaveh Daat, he brings down that the reason is pashut, because he held that there has to be— On the table. It's not stam a heker. It has to be what? A beautiful, beautiful glatt. He says, no, he's not good. He says, that's why the Beis Yosef doesn't bring. Good? You like it? What, he's looking it up now? What's he doing? Huh? Look it up. Don't look up something else. Look up this thing. Why would you look up something else? It's supposed to be challenged. I don't care about that. It's not—we're not holding there yet. When we discuss the details of this halacha, we'll do it later. What? Isn't the problem of the... It is. We didn't hear yet. Let's first get—let's first let's understand on the table or a side thing. The Beis Yosef brings such a case, and the ... says he doesn't bring it lahalacha. Okay. So then the pshat is that there's a din that has to be on the shulchan. What's wrong? What's wrong? Ah? Ah? What's wrong? Write down the following pshak. It's emes lamito. You're going to be zoche to hear real pshak, the Shulchan Aruch. Ready? The problem is not that they're eating together. The problem is lo yochel ima al hashulchan, on the same table. It's connecting. It's the table. It has a lot to do with the table. The chiddush of the Shulchan Aruch is that a shinui on the table will create a chatzitza on the table, that it's not anymore al hashulchan, the same table, like two shulchanos. But— The chiddush is that you don't need mamash chatzitza. The shinui itself creates the chatzitza. And you want to hear a lomdus? You want to hear mamash a lomdin? I'll tell you how a lomdin would say it. The whole yesod of shulchan is the achilah al ha-shulchan. What's called shulchanecha, but that it's physically the same table. What creates that me and you are doing something on the same table together? And the answer is, if we do the same pe'ulah on the same table, we usage, because table is only through usage. Lo yochal imah al ha-shulchan. Not eat with her at the same table. If there's a shinui in the table, which changes the al ha-shulchan echad, which in turn changes that it's not anymore lo yochal imah. So I don't need mamash a hefsek, hefsek, hefsek, that as long as I interrupt the imah of the achilah, it's good enough. That's why he says bein kaira l'kaira. I asked, why does he speak about the kaira? Does it have to be literally between? No, that's not the point. The point is b'shulchanecha, between the eating, the plates, the eating. And that's why I believe the Shulchan Aruch continues with mapa. Notice, what does he say? He brings a—

Case of mapos. Oi sheyochol lechlech memapes two different shulchanes. You like it? You don't understand? That's very good. I like that. That means you like it. That's what it is. I like it. Okay, Reb Yitzchok, do you understand what I said or I should repeat it over a few more times? A few more times. You hear what I'm getting at? I'm driving at something. Okay, let's start again. I asked you if the heker is not noticeable, what happens? Which means it doesn't strike the eye right away. You got to go and then do an investigation to find where Harpo is. Let's go, where Harpo? Elmo. Where Elmo is. Where is it? Okay? Huh? You know I'm getting—Waldo. You know that I'm getting already from a different generation than you guys. Like I'm coming in old senile man, so you have to bear with me, teach me the hintinga lingo, okay? Where's Waldo? Okay, where's Waldo? You know, my brothers used to go to yeshiva, they used to ask, Where's Wolkin? Couldn't find the man. Which one? I don't want to tell you. I think you'll figure it out yourself. Okay, now. And the truth is, I'm telling it to you because they used to say the same about ... but I don't want to get there. Okay, we don't want to go there. Okay, listen carefully, you hear? The kids, the kids, listen good, you hear? Hear good, hear good, rabosai. Listen good. Listen geshmak. So the shayla is, would that be good? Havadai, everybody says, the heker, it's not good. So I said, let me show you how a posek would invent, invent a whole new gisha, a whole new approach. The point is saying, you know what? No, that's okay. So let's—I'm not telling you halacha l'maaseh. I wouldn't say this in the street, but I'm saying it here in the, what do we call that, in the examining room, in the study room. Let's see if we can come up with the brainstorm. You ready? Let's start with taka learning pashut pshat. Lo yochal ima, you hear? And if you make a shinui, it's good. Now, does the shinui have to be al ha-shulchan? So the truth is, Acharonim bring cases where it's not al ha-shulchan, Beis Yosef, even Mishnah Berurah, Bnei Yirucham. A case where it's not al ha-shulchan, that they're sitting and somebody's in the middle, yet there he paskens that it's good. Here he doesn't bring it down, and the poskim say it's because he doesn't hold. Okay. Why should it be that? And with this I'm going to answer: why does it say bein kaira l'kaira if you hold it, it doesn't literally have to be bein kaira l'kaira? I thought you said it doesn't have to be. So why would it say taka such a weird lashon? And the answer is—Elan, put it away, Elan, put it away. I'm teaching you something more important. Listen carefully. Lo yochal ima. Don't say lo yochal ima. Lo yochal ima la-shulchan. The problem is the shulchan. Now understand that shulchan is just a table. You're allowed to sit at the same table with somebody. What makes it that the table is me and you? It's the pe'ulah that we do together on this table. A shulchan is there to make a pe'ulah, and if the pe'ulah is done together, then the shulchan combines us together. I mean, what do I have with you? I'm sitting on the other end of the table than you. So any people can undo it together? Chazal said דווקא אכילה, but I'm saying, and I can tell you because most of Shulchan is about achilah. It's not a desk, it's a table. Most of a table. Especially you guys should know that. What do you do on a table? Only eat. What else do you do on a table? Okay, just kidding. What if it's two different tables, one needs it and one is not? We'll talk about that later. Don't give me any examples now because I have to concentrate. I have to concentrate on the yesod. So the problem is Shulchan. So what is needed? Is it needed that the shulchan should be divided, or that the achilah should be divided? Technically, I don't really need the shulchan to be divided, even though I do, but it's more relevant that the achilah should be divided. Mameila the shulchanecha, it's not there either. If I could separate the seudah, it's already just as good as if I separated the table. Even if it's a tiny cap on it like this? Any siman is enough. You can separate the seudah. Together it's a siman, it's not a siman. You can't see it.

Because I didn't get there yet. I didn't say that yet. First I said the din in the Shulchan Aruch. I'm starting with the Shulchan Aruch: Lo yochal ima, shulchan, unless there's some shinui. It doesn't say choitzetz; it says mafsik. And what does it say, mafsik? Keira means the food, the eatings. It's about the eating. That's why it says the word keira. It's not choitzetz between the two of us. It doesn't say beino lebeina; it's not about us. It's about our meals. It's gevaldik, you hear? And that's why it continues with the case of mapa. Mapa means that it's different meals, different tables. It's another form of breaking up me, you, and eating on the same table. Now, now, now, is the shinui in order I shouldn't do something, or is the shinui to break up the meal, to break up the seudah, the shulchan? If it's to break up the meal, then anywhere is fine. The difference is where it is. Exactly. Meaning, we don't have to go constantly that you should see it. As long as when you put it down, you saw it, that should be good enough. I'll tell you a chiddush lahalacha: as long as when it was put down, it was put down for that purpose. It doesn't have to be constantly reminding us, because if it's al tergel, Hashem yavo, you'll go upstairs to the bedroom afterwards. Hashem has to remind you constantly. But if the taich is more that we have to separate the meal, how do you say, when you sit down, lechatchila, that's good enough. Let me ask you a question. Let's say you put a mappa, right? You put a mappa, and then because there's so much food on top of the mappa, you don't notice the mappa. You put a mappa. You want to tell me that every time you have food, you always see the mappa underneath? Who said? Who said? As long as when you sat down, when you started the meal, you started as two separate meals, that itself is called a hefsek. It doesn't have to be a constant heker. What don't you know? That's right, misvara. That's why I told you not to come to my shiur. If you want a misvara, there's sefarim, Shabbos drashim, that speak about svara. If I have a three-and-a-half-hour meal and I put the thing down in the beginning, four minutes later it's gone— I didn't say it's gone. No, it's on the table. You just can't see it. It's gone. I forgot about it. Yeah, it's not nikar. It's covered up. The mappa is covering it up. It's gone. I didn't say covered up. It's there. It's not noticeable. Obviously it's there. You want to know something? You want it? Okay, if that makes you happy, okay, there's no— Even if it gets covered. I just told you why. It's just to be mafsik the shulchan. It's just to make the— together. What are you laughing for? Ready to say asur. You should hear. He's saying something. Who said? I told you some poskim say you're allowed to do that. What do you want from my life? You're allowed to make a clap on the table. I just want to know, is that true? You said you make two claps on the table and that's a heker. Three. Three claps. Okay, three. Three claps. Yes or no? It says clearly, A, you're allowed to put a piece of paper. Okay, but you put a piece of paper— It's not on the shulchan, but— I want nothing there. Shomer.

I would pass from that, even if you can't see the heker. As long as it was put down l'chatchila. In other words, you don't have to constantly see it and keep in mind. You don't have to constantly remind you. Isn't it learned that from masav v'chalam? You have to always... Isn't it? And maybe I'll tell you it isn't. It's machloikes. Isn't it? That's exactly what I was telling you. Isn't it? Maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah, but maybe not in that you don't need such a major heker. That's what you say. That's what you... I say different. It's different. That's what you say. I just explained it to you. Who says that the heker is there to remind me as much as to show, in the beginning, that we're not eating together? Who said? Who told you? You decided it was that. I decided not that way. Can I ask you before? Why doesn't it say you should put it down? It should just be there. Sheyehei shum hefsek between them. Where mesheyehei. Put it down. Okay, that's good. Sounds like it has to be there from before. Okay. It's a diyuk. It's not more than a... I know. I hold that it's not muchach. That's all. I hold it's very shayach that it's all about... Sheyehei meaning what? No, he says sheyehei should be there. It doesn't mean you have to put it down. It's constant. It has to constantly be there. It should be. Yeah, but then what happens if the guy came and ate up your thing in the middle, because somebody came and ate up your... or somebody came and stole the ring, because they claim it was theirs? According to everybody, if the heker is there from last night, we ate yesterday, there was a heker, we came back to the table and the heker's still there. According to the Rebbe, that's not good. You didn't do anything down. There was no ma'aseh done. We're just continuing from... Let's say... Yeah, yeah, you want to know something? Yeah, okay, maybe. Okay, so very good. You say very good. You're adding to my sheet. It's very good. I like it. And according to the way it was from yesterday, maybe it's not good. It's very good, no? I'm asking, no? You want to know something? Now you understand what I'm talking about. The fact that you added this point, I'm asking. I'm asking. Let's see the Ramah a little. Let's see if the Ramah can help us. יש אומרים, ... לקערה שלו. Yeah? היינו דווקא כשאינם אוכלים בקערה אחת, כשהיא טהורה. אוכלים בקערה אחת שהיא טהורה, סגי מחז בקערה בפני עצמה, ואין צריך היכר אחר. Okay? So the Ramah is saying that if they're eating b'kearah achas, k'shehi tehorah, yeah, so you don't need any other— if you eat separate. If you eat separate. If you eat separate, yeah. So you don't need— hello, so you don't need a heker, right? Does the Ramah hold that you need a heker? Chitzah, machamah, hefsek? Obviously not, right? Oh! So Rafi decided the table between them. The table is always between them, so what is Rav Chaim talking about? No, but what is the mechaber talking about? Mechaber is talking about even though the table is between them, yet you still need a hefsek. According to the Ramah, you wouldn't need that. So I'm asking you, so what happened to the hefsek? And the teretz is, I understood the Ramah that it's never about hefsek; it's always about heker. Huh? It's always about heker. Wait a minute. So do you need a b'foeldike heker? Do you need something to remind you? Or if it's memorable, mimeila it's good enough. If it's different. Hairgoel, it's different than the hairgoel is good enough. Mashma it's good enough. You don't need any shinui b'etzem. Unless you're saying that the not eating, I don't know how you would say it, the eating from a different plate in itself is an act of shinui. But it's lo nikar l'zarim. Huh? It's lo nikar l'zarim. Huh? It's not for... I think he brings... It's not about zarim. Usually you use matsa, and now you don't want to use a mat, it's considered shinui. Right, that's what I'm trying to tell you. That's what I want—I'm trying to get at, do you need a b'foel shinui, or you need that it should be meshuneh, something different? Right. Could you have the not having? So you know what? I'll make him a party. I'm happy that he brings a case. What do you want from him? Okay, very good. Of course he brings this case. He's good, and I'm good, and I'm saying we're saying the same thing. We're trying to understand from the Rambam, do you need a shinui, or the pshat is the Rambam is saying the fact that—or maybe he learned the eating from a different plate is an act of. Now what would be the difference if you need—

The paila shinui, or the pshat is, as long as it's mishun. Now, if you learn hefsek, does the Ramah talk about hefsek at all? Obviously not. It's not mentioned in the Ramah, right? Unless Rafi's chiddush, the tables and hefsek. Because the Mechaber obviously didn't hold. I don't know. Ah, Mechaber. Okay. The tables. What's the problem? Why would he want to hold a hefsek? You see, there's no hefsek. Where's the hefsek here? No, he says, v'ha, d'tzrichim hefsek is only when this and that, but when you don't have that, you don't need a hefsek. It's exactly what you said. You don't need a hefsek. That means otherwise you would need a hefsek, only because of heker. This idea that he's doing is that because it also is a hefsek and you don't need another one, or pshat is this is a heker, right. I mean, it's a legitimate she'eilah, and it comes out a very interesting she'eilah. According to Ramah, do you need or don't you need, or it's just about heker? So it could be that's the machlokes. The machlokes, the Mechaber and the Ramah is, the Mechaber held you need to be mafsik. To reestablish, the Mechaber holds mamash a hefsek, because the mapah is not a hefsek. Whatever it is, because it's something. It says mafsik, choitzetz. He used the lashon kaira l'kaira. He still puts them. It's not stam shinui. What I want to be mechadesh, according to the Ramah, all these cases would be good. As long as there's a shinui, you don't need anything halachically. Any heker. Any heker. That's what I want to be mechadesh. According to the Ramah, you could have a shomer. According to Ramah, you could have a piece of paper. So sefardim, you have to be careful to make sure that you have something that separates the two. No knives, because you never know, you get angry, you might throw a knife at someone. No knives. Ashkenazim, they used to call them sakinim. Don't they call them Arkai sakinim? They’re cool. This is the idiom, that they get angry, they’ll kill you. They’re cool. Merkayim sakin. It’s a joke. One time— It’s not Ashkenazi, it’s a ספרדי joke. I’m telling you one time, people who say about מרוקאים that they’re סכינים. Yeah? פעם אחת דוד לוי אכל עם הידיים, אז אשתו אומרת לו, תיקח סכין. הוא אמר לה, מיבא. I’ve already had a whole thing about Morocco. If it’s סכין, then to be killed. That’s good stuff. I can’t even say it over my house. I’ve already had a whole thing about Morocco. I had to warn them this and that, so I showed that thing to my wife. They went crazy as I talked about them. Okay, okay. Let me tell you, he’s a new guy, so he knows. Any intelligent person that talks about racist things is a fool. It shows that his mind is—gotta be a tom to talk about where people come from or where their background is. We’re going over the papers, they said something. Yeah, I don’t— I’m just trying to tell you, anybody normal laughs, it’s a joke, like any other joke. It’s humor, that’s all it is. What else? People come from thousands of different places, and everybody’s a human being. When you start with these— I’m saying when people start with this racism stuff, it comes from being stupid. You know when it comes from not having self-esteem. They’re not mechabed themselves, so they don’t know how to mechabed another person. But there’s nothing wrong. I can make fun of myself also. It’s not racist. Of course it’s true. They come from this mentality. Yeah, so what? So what, now what? You want to tell me you can’t—that won’t kill you. If Ashkenazim kill you also, what does it have to do with the Arabs? Got to make that on a video played by the Chazak video, by the Chazak. Reish Chazak said that. Okay, let's go weiter. Now. אי בעית אימא. אבל הוא שואל למה הסוף של ה... או שיוכל עם המפה שלו, רואים שאין שום הפסק. זה מה ששאלתי. לא. מה? What do you mean? The map itself is the hefsek, and I want to prove that. I'm going to discuss that. Let's discuss that. You ready? So now that I learned pshat in the Mechaber that it's about mafsik, so what's או שיוכל כולך מפה שלו? Either you learn that in such a case you don't even need a hefsek because it's considered like shtei shulchanos. When it's shtei shulchanos mamash, right? When it's shtei shulchanos mamash, you don't have to come on to hefsek. אי דילמא, maybe it's taka means hefsek. What's called a hefsek? So a lot of Acharonim want to say it has to be a little bit higher than the plate, otherwise you're mafsik. Put a piece of paper — that's a chatzitzah. For a mechitza maybe it's a mechitzah. I'm just kidding. It's not a mechitzah, right?

I saw it from Reb Tuvia. All the Reb Tuvia guys walk around. I used to learn with my friends, learn by Reb Tuvia Goldstein. I used to ask that maybe it's two tefachim. Maybe my plate, my wife buys bigger plates, it's two tefachim, and I can't listen to this stuff. You know what I mean? When you start with— Huh? Who has it? Fold. Okay, so you want shiurim? I in the shiurim of Reb Tuvia Goldstein and Kutshani, right? Every time you see the light bus— No, no. Because of shiurim, they give it. It's a busa b'chalal. Okay, I can't help it. Now, the way I'm learning, that it's not etzem chatzitza, it's the shinui that makes the chatzitza. No? Do I need anything? I don't need mamash chitzitz. No, not— they're saying that you want something which separates. I don't— No, notice. You find a ring between two plates, what's it doing there? You can't notice. You can't see it, so you need a higher— It depends. Why can't you notice? Okay, you're looking at your plate, you're not— One second. When you look, and you— and the carrots, because it's not about— that's exactly what I just saw. That's exactly what I'm mechadesh to you. It's not about chatzitza. What is it about? Shinui. So any shinui is good. It doesn't have to be kavua. I know that he says that, that I'm arguing with him. I know, but they're not using the word mechitza. It's like they're coming— But he's saying he's arguing. I'm telling you, I'm arguing because who said? Who told you this? He says, you know, it's not a hekker. I won't see the ring. Mapa. He means a higher mapa. The mapa goes up. Because obviously it's different. Obviously it's different. I don't think it's. I see the same. To me it's the same. Oishi yochal is the same. I tie it's the same, and the pshat is it's a raya that you don't need higher. That's all. And that's what I would do. It's having a ring in the middle of the table. That's right. That's right. That's right. I know he learned. A lot of people learn like that. It makes sense. That's right. That's a good idea. That's right. The only problem is you might both come to use it. Not at each other, not with each other. What did you say about my food? Okay. Now, the point being, the point being that according to many poskim, according to many poskim, it has to be what? Higher. And if you learn mapa is the same sugya as davar chaytzitz, so it's takkeh pshat not as two different tables. So stam that it's chaytzitz. You see, the chatzitz doesn't have to be what? It doesn't have to be higher. Okay. What happens if you have two mapos and they touch each other? What happens if you have two mapos and they touch each other? If it's l'shinui, it's fine. If it's l'shinui, it's fine. The same color. It's two shulchanos. Maybe, maybe not. Unless maybe different color, different texture. Make me nervous. Halacha l'maaseh, you ever notice they put two mats and they touch each other. So if it's al tekker, you have to hekker. If it's al what? I mean, if they put the two mats there. If it's al that shei shulchanos, maybe you won't have that. Halacha l'maaseh, if the mats touch each other, I think it's talui in this shaila. Okay, more. Tell me, when you have two taka two shulchanos and they're not allowed to touch, agav, I just want to know, does it say it anywhere? Let's say such a case, such a case. She's sitting there and I'm sitting... How do you know? Because you said so. No, it's two beds. What's your raya? I'm saying, where does it say it? Who said? Who said? Maybe not. Two different... Maybe, who knows? Who knows? I know. I know that it has nothing to do with each other. Two different shulchanos, not the same. And I would say it's one shulchan. So that's what I'm saying, the heker. Unless there's a shinui. I'm telling you, ... this he doesn't talk about. You know why? Probably doesn't have to pay, not even one penny. In Eretz Yisrael, they have to discuss if the table split in half and it's cracked, and they're eating on two different sides of the crack. You know, that's how the shailos you have to ask in Eretz Yisrael. Okay, now, with this, okay.

What happens if it's normal stuff on the table, but they're both maskim that they're not going to eat it, right? Tell me, you're going to come and tell me that in such a case there's a heker? No, but if it's for sure, then it's no good. It's for heker. If it's for heker. I mean, if it's normal, it's normally there, it just, we both decide we're not going to eat it. Why? Why would that work? Why would the pas hold like that? No? Has something to do with what we're learning, I think. It's a shinui in the achilah, that there's something different, that there's a piece of bread that we're not going to eat. It's not shinui mazgir, maskir. It's shinui mishunah. But if for maskir it's no good? I don't see why. Why does that— if normally you always have bread, and then we always eat bread— That's exactly what I'm telling you. It's not about the difference. Even though you might forget about the bread. That's what I'm telling you. L'maaseh, it's mishunah that we have a klal, there's something here that we're not supposed to eat in the middle of the day. I think it's a very big raya. Otherwise, what's this pas? Okay, let's move on, because I want to finish. I want to finish. Now, here. Okay, now. What happens if they normally don't eat with a mapah, you hear? Yeah. Shh. What happens if they normally—I'm sorry—eat with a mapah and they take the mapah off? That's the case I told you, the Rama, the not having. That's the story of the Rama, the not having, okay? So there's a darkei teshuva about it that they all talk about. Darkei Teshuva says, machlokes, a posek is telling you this shaila. If it's half-six, you can't have a half-six that you don't have. I mean, you can't use a half-six, the fact that you don't have something. But if you always have a bottle of Coke and you remove it, that's called a half-six. That's called a half-six, but it's called a shinui. It's called a shinui. So listen, Rafi, do me a favor. Listen to what I want to say, because there's two more minutes left. So the darkei teshuva says that the chayr should be telling this shaila. The way we're learning is gargishmak, because even the Shimi makes the half-six, maybe it's not a shaila. Okay, now one more thing. What happens if there's people in between? The shinui itself is the half-six, the fact that there's something mishunah. I showed you from the Rama. Which normally is there. If it's normally there and you go out of your way to remove it, the chayr should be more good. Okay, now, what happens if she's mishaneh her makom kavua? What time is mincha? One-thirty. One-thirty. Okay. Mishaneh makom. Okay, so, mishaneh makom, and also I want to talk about tables long. What happens if the table is long? That's your shaila. Maybe the table itself can be called a half-six. Also tell you. Okay, I couldn't finish. Now, shinui makom. No? Shinui makom is a shinui, not if you ... because it's not on the shulchan.