Hilchos Niddah: Re’iyah Machmas Tashmish—Chazakah, Veses, and the Timing of Bedikah

Transcript

Yesterday, we came to a yesod, and we explained that there's two ways to understand a re'iyah dam machmas tashmish. One is that it's a shash nidus, shash nidus, and the other one is that it goes under the gedarim. And one is that it goes under the gedarim of vestes. We explained that the chiluk between if it's shash nidah or vestes, it would be d'Oraisa or d'Rabbanan. We explained, Beis Meir says d'Oraisa, the Chochmas Yehuda says d'Rabbanan. I see here, I looked at it last night, I see Rav Vadya, kedarko bakodesh, brings a massive amount of mekoros, says it's d'Oraisa, d'Rabbanan. He brings from the Chelkas Mechokek that it's d'Oraisa, Beis Meir, and he finds it in the Shalos, the Maram finds it in the Shalos Harashba, the Chavas Daas, all the information. Okay? So we can— No, he just brings the machlokes, this opinion. No, we pasken like the Noda BYehuda, that since it's about vestes, vestes are d'Rabbanan, and meileh it's only d'Rabbanan. We even went as far as to explain, ... I tried to spend time. I know, I know, I'm sorry, huh? Ah, okay. So we even went so far as to explain the root of this shaylah. Is it because of choli, that that's what's happening over here, choli? So then if it's because of choli, so tchash shnida, that's all it is. If it's because of memale u'mefafeses, meaning that it fills up, like I showed you the lashon in the Gemara, it's a very sharp lashon, Chinese. For some reason, I don't know why, I looked a little bit, I don't see the books bring it so much, but it's in פירוש הגמרא, that it fills up and it explodes. That's oirech, that's the regular oirech, right? So on the side that it's the regular oirech, so it's vestes d'rabbanan, and וכו' וכו'. That's what we explained yesterday. This is where we left off yesterday. I believe that this yesod will help us understand well the Shulchan Aruch. It'll help us understand well the Shulchan Aruch. So again, the introduction we gave yesterday was very simple. Do we look at it as a choli, which the truth is I showed you the lashon of the Gemara is nisrapa, that it has to do with healing? Or do we look at it as oirech, in which I showed you the lashon of the Gemara could imply, could be an implication because it says it fills up and it bursts. So the question becomes, is it alt oirech, or this is a special choli that she has? What would be the nafka mina if it's orech? So, and this is, I don't think the oilam understood me well yesterday. Listen carefully and I'll explain this very clearly now. If it's als orech, then the reason to be choshesh for it is the orech. The word orech means way, cycle. That's what, and that's where veset comes in, and that's where derabbanan comes in. The word orech is cycle, okay? So is re'iyah machmas tashmish like cycle, like orech, or is it choli, right? Now, choli, the reason to be choshesh for it is not because she's a cholah. Meaning, I'm sorry, not because there's a tendency for the cholah because she is a cholah. It's like being mishamesh with a nida. I'm going to repeat this one more time because I just touched the nerve of the sugya, the nerve. You see, what I was doing till now is I was doing root canal. I was giving you the information, you know, cutting it down. I'm going to touch now the nerve, which I really said yesterday, because you asked me this. Remember, I said this nekudah.

Does the gimel pe'amim make the oirech? Somebody said this? Pay attention. By an oirech, what am I afraid of? And the answer is, it's the gimel pe'amim which show me cycle, and it's the cycle that scares me. Cycles are only d'rabbanan. An isha cholanis, that she has niddus, we're not afraid that she might come to see. She's b'chezkas niddah, and it's as if you're being bo'el a niddah. That's the side of the raya. Again, let me repeat this one more time. Okay, thank you very much. No problem, whatever. Thank you, I'm going to pay you. You understand? I'm giving you a present. You hear what I'm telling you? Listen to me. I'm giving you a matanah tovah that nobody will give you. You know, honestly, last night I was sitting and thinking to myself, what do you mean is d'oraisa? I don't know what the words mean. What is d'oraisa? What to be worried about? You know what? I'm going to challenge you. I challenge you. How do you understand? What is d'oraisa? What does it mean, is d'oraisa? I mean, she's a ro'eh machmas tashmish. Now... Yeah, but you don't know. I mean, it might be, right? I mean, how is it de'oraisa? What do you mean? Does she have to be choshesh min haTorah? Does it say it anywhere in the Torah? El mai, because of the din chazakah. So why is this any other time? It's more probable? I'm not sure how you translate the word de'oraisa, okay? Do you want to say that if it happened just once, you do choshesh, not three times? I'm not saying it's a very simple thing. This siman is based on one thing. So if you want to break it down into halacha l'maaseh, is it de'oraisa or is it derabbanan? What's a negeiah if it's safek? There's so many nafka minas, right? There's so many nafka minas l'maaseh, right? If it's safek derabbanan l'kula. If it's de'oraisa, then it's safek de'oraisa l'chumra. And the literature is about this: is it de'oraisa or is it derabbanan? So yesterday I explained to you what is that taluy in. It's taluy in, do you learn that it's veses? That's derabbanan. Do you learn that it's chashash choli, then it's de'oraisa. It's not clear, really, because what's the reason? You have to be choshesh, and the answer is because she's muchzek l'ra'os. So the chazakah is the same both times, no? And I explained this to you yesterday, but I don't think the olam picked up on it. Maybe it was because of the fast, I didn't explain it properly. Maybe the olam was hungry. Maybe it was rushing at the end. Listen to me. This is the yesod of this sugya. You know what de'oraisa means over here is? She is a ro'ah machmas tashmish. It's her. She is a nida. She is a... She is a ro'uyah machmas tashmish. If it's vestes, she will see. Vechazak muchzak liro'os machmas tashmish. Okay? You don't see any difference? She is a woman who's a... she's a niddah. Legabei tashmish, she's a niddah. That's what they write. Vestes means that since it's a three times, so they're oirach, and it happened, and it happened, and it's a chazakah, and etc., etc., etc. Those chazakos, since tasuyah lishtanos, whatever, I don't even want to go into all the details of vestes derabbanan. We spoke about it. For some reason, it's just not enough to make her a chashash de'oraisa. This is the yesod of this. If you're learning this derabbanan, not she changed from vestes to become kavua. We can talk about this. Everything we'll talk about. Okay. Dinei isha haro'ayah dam machmas tashmish. Isha shera'asa dam machmas tashmish.

Just a simple deal, though, to speak, which pretty clear states what I want. Din ha'isha haroya. It's not din isha sherata machmas tashmish. Haroya, the woman, ha'isha sheraya dam machmas tashmish. Dinei isha, haroya dam machmas tashmish. So din an isha. It's not the ma'aseh. Dinei ha'isha, ha'isha haroya. The dinim of an isha haroya. And the mechaber starts explaining how does that happen. Isha sherasa dam. It's not dinei isha. Isha sherasa dam. She is the isha haroya machmas tashmish. Just a simple thing. It's true. It's not a din. It's just a fact. The fact is it's about the isha. Okay. Now how does it work? It works: isha sherasa dam machmas tashmish, a woman who saw dam machmas tashmish. Now, I do want to stress, I spoke about this yesterday, it doesn't say she's a rosa dam b'shaas tashmish. It says that she's a rosa dam because of tashmish, okay? Isha sherasa dam b'shaas tashmish. I didn't say that. It says isha sherasa dam machmas tashmish. So let's see miyad. What does miyad mean? What does it mean? What is the word miyad? So the Mechaber explains, bichdei shetoshit yadah kar tachas hatitul, eh... Is this a gagdora? In miyad. Well, this is a hagdarah in chashash that maybe it's not from this. Let me say it a little bit different. Isha haro'ah dam b'shaas tashmish. B'shaas would have to be miyad. You know what's called miyad? Miyad is this. How about another way of saying it? Isha shera'asa dam machmas. Maybe this is not machmas. How do you prove that it's machmas? Such a short amount of time. Where else is it from? Isha haro'ah dam b'shaas. What's called b'shaas? And the answer is miyad. I'm just learning with you. I'm asking you a simple question. Is it isha haro'ah dam b'shaas tashmish and the miyad is called miyad? Or it's isha shera'asa dam machmas? How do you know it's machmas? Maybe it's machmas that she got nervous afterwards. Maybe because the minute she finished tashmish, all of a sudden she remembers, that's it, that she left the boiling pot of soup on the thing in the house is going to burn down. How do you know it's machmas? And the answer is miyad. It's from this. I'll show you why I say it. You know I'm a big chassid of Rav Adi. I'm a chassid. I like what he says. He says things that nobody else touches on. I saw he says an interesting psak in the Katzer. I'm reading it from here because it's easier to read it from here than from the Katzer, okay? זהו דווקא, פירש ממנו אחר גמר ביאה, ולא שהה עד שימות העבר ויצאו כל טיפות הזרע. אבל אם שהה כנ״ל, אפילו — which is a Darizal, which he brings in the Darizal, right? — אפילו כשקינח עצמו תוך שיעור הנזכר וראה דם, אם שוב ונמצא על עת שלו, תולין לומר שבו הדם אחר תשמיש. Do you all have it? I made it. I was shocked when I saw it. Huh? The way I'm explaining it is very good, right? Rebbe said again, please. Rebbe doesn't appreciate. They don't understand what I'm doing. I'm saying. He's my kayin. He's not a... he's not a... he's my...

Okay. Im achar ha-tashmish lo פירש ממנו הבעל מיד, אלא שהה כמה דקות עד שעמדת העבר ויצא כל טיפת הזרע, ואחר מכן נמצא דם על עד הבדיקה של האישה או של הבעל. אפילו אם עירה כהן שלוש פעמים ברציפות, אין הנסתרת הבעלה, משום כך שחייב לגרשה, שיש לפלפל ולומר שבא הדם אחר התשמיש, ובשעת התשמיש לא ראתה כלום. What happens if something comes taka machmas tashmish? Taka machmas tashmish. If it wasn't there b'shaas tashmish. Something is ba machmas tashmish. Didn't you ask me this yesterday? Remember I told you we'll talk about it? It was very important. I'll see you. It's true. What happens if it's ba machmas tashmish? Well, yeah, he's still in there, no? I don't get it. I'm trying to get this. He's still in there, and she's bleeding, but that's not a problem? Because it came after. Yeah, but he's in there, no? You're telling me... Maybe this just came, not because of him. How do you know the two? How do you know? Huh? Either me'ash or not. No? Either way. It's not... it's not... What are you... He's there. He's not doing nothing. Give me... he's there. He's not doing nothing. Again, but the shiur of after is always that way: miyad bichdei shetofes yado, so that's after. No, but see, but what is that shiur? What is that shiur? Bichdei shetofes yado... of what? As soon as he's matria, right? Which means is that there is a moment from then, and this is called miyad, right? So then what's the difference if it's another two minutes and then it's miyad? I mean, this is just to make sure it's not... She cut herself or something, no? Two seconds or five seconds, whatever this year we give, is that moment takes the blood to come down from the rechem to the beis hachitzon. If it's two minutes later, I don't know when it came out. Maybe mamash this second when I just put my hand in my check. That's travel time. That's not when she... Just travel time. The whole thing goes on al safek, sheikah al safek. It doesn't matter if blood came out so much. You need ma'aseh. That's what I want. That's what I'm trying to get at, but he's not masking it. I want to get him to be... Give me a minute. I want to know the word miyad, what does it go... miyad. I'm not sure. Let me tell you. I'm not sure. Let me tell you. Like I said to you, I don't know if the miyad... So that's the problem here, this word? Is to verify, to verify that it's not coming from something else, or the miyad is in the time of tashmish. Any time a woman becomes a nidah during tashmish, we have to worry where it's coming from. Again, if at four o'clock...

A woman becomes a nida, says four o'clock. The four o'clock is mechayev metorah. I just said something very, very, very, very shnark. I'm trying to tie it into the word zes. Tell me something. If kfitza causes her to sheydam, would it make a difference if it's mamash b'shaas the kfitza, or it's even if she was kofeses and five minutes later she'll bleed? Kfitza, but it's not. That's what I'm getting at. I want to know if the machmas tashmish, which we compare to kfitza, maybe it's the same thing. Everybody relax. I'm prodding you along to the pshat. Again, Ilan, you with me? It's very poshut, okay? We compare it like kfitza, which some do and some don't. I'm not even so sure if you look at the acharonim, it's so poshut. But it's a simple question: do we have to worry by kfitza time, or as long as it's kfitza, it's kfitza? Do we have to put on the clock when the kfitza — I mean, meila, it was right after she's kofeses, one minute after she's kofeses, two minutes after she's kofeses, whatever. The kfitza causes it. Why are we not חושש there? Maybe tach... maybe tach... The answer is, again, listen, because that's what I'm getting at. Could you write this down, because you seem to not be... not. If a woman is kofeses three times, every single time, an hour exactly, hour later she sees. I mean, who says an hour? Whatever time. But it's not an hour. Who said anything about an hour? But how do you know that it's an hour? I'm asking you a question. Forget about an hour. Does it say anywhere in Shulchan Aruch to clock it? The clock. I'm telling you, once the kvitza comes, let's say she has a kvitza, do you have to say, well, let's see, did it come a second from the kvitza or two seconds from the kvitza? If she was able to do it, if she was able to map it, wouldn't that be a good enough ...? So good. So you know what? Write it up. Write it up. Make your own ... do that. I don't mind. Do I mind that you make a halacha? I don't mind. Do me a favor, just write the following. My homework is: does kvitza work the same way by ...? That's what I want. What am I trying to get? The word machmas is like kvitza that causes it, or is the word machmas, but the ...? It has to do with time. Did you write that down? Where do you have it? Like kvitza and the whole thing and the whole sugya? No, I didn't see you have it in the ... But I'm showing you the nafka mina maybe. The nafka mina might be, let's say you're in there, but it's cooled already the end of the bi'ah. It's cooled the end of the bi'ah. I mean, what's the nafka mina? Notice, so the ... is not even so much for safek. The ... is because it has to be b'shaas the bi'ah. The ... unless you said a chiddush, you're saying that maybe the bi'ah, and then it stopped, and then the vestes set in. I'm not so sure about that. Could be miyad is a taich in Shas. It's the biur, and right after, and therefore miyad. In order for that here, for example, let's say there's supposed to be a vest at four o'clock, right? It's 4:01. Shteit zicher 4:01 is even more than four. Yeah, but it's not four o'clock. If you're talking about vestes, then you got to clock it. If you're talking about what, yeah, she's already makpid. You think you can say there was a clocked yes, no, yes, no? You think you can do that? I want to know. Does that make sense to you? By tefitza, do you go yes? Ah, she just put her left foot down. No, no, that's it already. If it has to do with—

That the mechayev is the vest, so then the zman has to be exact. You know, we even learned this, that there's such a thing called, in the day, the shaah. Even in the day, there's a moment. You have to clock. If by a pe'ulah, I don't believe it has to be clocked. All right? If you look at it, you'll find me by kfita, do we say yes or no? Yeah? Ah, second pass. No. Kfita is finished. Yes. Let's say she was five hours later she soaked. I mean, it has to be the due time. It's always time. That's different, because that's five hours later. You can't tole it. But you do time it then. You can't tole it on the kfita, because it's too long. I mean, there is a time. It's only within an hour that you'll see. But a second— Let's say she was kovea three times, she's kovea, exactly five hours after she shimesh. Can you say the next time? Don't worry, you have another five hours. Or should you worry right away? I'm sure right away. I mean, the teretz is, it's the ma'aseh kfita that causes it. Yeah? Okay. Now let's see a little further. Vichdei shetoishit yadah letachas hakar, letachas hakeses. V'titor ei livdok boi, v'tikaneach atzmah. V'tikaneach atzmah. So halachah is, meshameshes gimel pe'amim. Meshameshes gimel pe'amim. She's mishamesh three times. Okay. Now, gimel pe'amim, three more times. Or gimel pa'amim, all together three times. Mishameshes gimel pa'amim. She has three times to be kovea if she's a ro'ah machmas tashmish. So is it mishameshes gimel pa'amim more, another three times, or is it mishameshes gimel pa'amim altogether? So the Shach says that it's mishameshes gimel pa'amim altogether. She only has two more times. Says the Toras Shlamim, no, it can't be that. Why? Because the first time wasn't checked for a ro'ah machmas tashmish. If it checked the first time, mishamesh, then she saw, so then she needs three more times to be kovea that she's not called a ro'ah machmas tashmish. And that's how the Vady paskens. Okay, fine. Now, it's either two more times or three more times. Two more times or three times? What's the machlokes? What are they arguing in? What are they arguing? He brings it here on the bottom, in shei presi u'pleisi. V'chol dvarav d'tali b'bedikah she'achar tashmish, sheichashin l'ro'ah machmas tashmish, ela. Ki ma inyan zeh l'chshasha d'machmas tashmish, she'afilu lo chashinan, mikomakom machazikin d'rasa machmas tashmish. Forget about ro'eh machmas tashmish. We find three times that she saw after tashmish. Again, the Shach is saying, you don't have to check the first time. The point is, you saw three times, once after tashmish, you have to be choshesh. The Taz says, no, she's not called a ro'eh machmas tashmish. Masha'en kein, the Shach is learning, what do you mean? She saw three times after tashmish, she has to worry. Let's discuss. What are the arguments? What's the machlokes? All right? If you didn't learn the Shulchan Aruch. How does a woman even worry about ro'eh machmas? What's the story? You know the story? You have to be bo'edik the first three times you get married. But let's say years passed, you were bo'edik. Now all of a sudden, she saw one more time, right? So all of a sudden you start worrying, wait a minute, there's something wrong. The second time and then the third time...

You're checking before to see that there's a problem, right? So what happens now that it's only two more times? Could we use the first time, or do we need three more times? In other words, three times that you check. You know what I'm talking about? You know what I'm talking about. When there's a re'iyah machmas tashmish. The case is that out of nowhere, she's got sick. Could be after five years, ten years of living with her, she got sick. So all of a sudden you have tashmish, and you see that she sees blood. But you never checked before to see if the blood wasn't from before. So what happens? So the Shach says, I don't care, it doesn't make a difference. Check now, and if there's two and three, then she's called a re'iyah machmas tashmish. Everybody's looking at me like I'm crazy. Did you do the Shach? No, we did. You did it? Just now. You did it? The Shach, two times. Comes along the Taz and Shulchan, and he says, What are you talking about? But the first time doesn't count, because you wasn't checked before to see if she's a re'iyah machmas tashmish. Says the Kreisi, like that. Why? Who cares? What's the difference? Who cares? Then you could come and say, you know what, you're arguing in safek. You're right, you don't know for sure, but since it's a safek, maybe, maybe it has to do with that. I don't believe the Kreisi plays this thing. Kreisi plays is a lashon, I repeat again, is lashon: Ha-chazina d'ra'asa machmas tashmish, v'lama lo yehei b'gimel zimnei chazakah. What are you trying to... You missed what? Okay, tell me over the ... Okay. It doesn't make sense, because you need three times, right? The first one, he said it wasn't a check. It wasn't a check. Something didn't happen, ah, it happened. No, because before, right? Says the ... played. Says the ... played. I don't care. Let me answer the ... second good word, because he saw it three times. What do you say? Okay. Yeah, but he's saying that maybe he didn't see three times. Maybe the ... came from before the ... So what is he talking about? He's talking to... He's saying A and this guy screaming B, and it doesn't make sense. What is he saying? And he brings here, and he says ... like the ... Good, nice, nice. Yeah, but ... Very easy to ... You don't just throw away a ... but what does the ... say? Says the ... place. You know what he was saying? ... But it's not a real ... Maybe he has something with the ... So I understood either he's trying to say it's a ... and every ... that's this would be ... Okay, but this is not. This is worse. Still me saying something is very ... In order to be ... In order to be chazakah ofes, you have to need three times, right? And the three times have to be that it's those three times. I'll explain to you an idea. You know what the word pattern means? What does the word pattern mean? Pattern. What does the word pattern mean? If the reason to be choshesh is the pattern, then the moment there's an abuse to the pattern, the moment there's any hefsek to the pattern, right, any tampering with the pattern, then you don't have to, right? Because the chashash is coming from the pattern. But if the chashash is not coming from the pattern, the chashash is coming actually from a ma'aseh that happens three times, then it's not the pattern of things.

That it happens that do we should be choshesh. The mechayev is not the pattern. The mechayev is that she sees dam machmas tashmish. So the fact that she saw it three times doesn't tell me to be choshesh on a fourth time pattern. She l'maaseh sees dam by tashmish. There's a chazakah on the isha that she's a ro'ah machmas tashmish. How do I know it's not before? Remember I explained to you, what's the taich in de'oraisa? What does the word de'oraisa mean? Shechoyv, right? When the choleh is there, you don't have to be choshesh that the fever is coming from somewhere else. Yes, yes, you do. Yes, you do. If the two times did you check? Fact is, three times she was a ro'ah. You could bring a safek maybe it wasn't. In other words, the choleh doesn't have to be three times to make it into a choleh. It doesn't need the pattern of three times to make it into a choleh. I'll give you another example. You ready? Good, now for one second. Just concentrate. What's the chiluk between resufin and not resufin? Could you tell me that machlokes? Did you learn? You claim you, claim you learned. Okay, so talk to me about resufin. Does it have to be resufin or it doesn't have to be resufin? Gimel pa'amim resufin, ra'ah daas, right? Says the Rama that what? ... Gimel pa'amim tzrichin lihyos resufin, aval lo hayu resufin, she's not neser al bailah. Kasav b'Chavas Daas, d'bat ka'atzma beis pa'amim, סמוך לתשמיש. U'matza achar kach, u'matza dam. V'ach kach shimsha kamah pa'amim v'lo badikah. V'achah shimshah pa'am achas u'vatkah, u'matza dam. Havei k'gimel pa'amim resufin. You know who quotes this? Pischei Teshuvah, right? Ilan, you remember the Pischei Teshuvah? Tziv katan gimmel. All right? That's already called resufin. Taz, ha'Bayis pasken, d'b'chiyai gavna lo mikri resufin. What's the machlokes? What are the arguments? Not resufin? It goes on the bedikah. La, la, la, la, la, la. Okay, I'm gonna wait. You know what I'm talking about now? פשוט. Half what I want. Tell me, if you have a change in a pattern, but then there's no pattern, so what are you talking about? That just wouldn't be good, right? What? Get up! Get up! Teach the olam haTorah, what we just said. She's the olam haTorah. But one time she was sleeping and she's not. She's the olam haTorah. If it's cholish, it was ... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe, maybe those times she didn't see. Maybe those times she didn't see. What is he talking? Maybe, maybe, maybe. When you saw three times machmas tashmish, you don't say maybe, there's no pattern. I don't care about that. Maybes are not going to take away what you saw in front of you. Kol zman the mechayev is only the pattern. If the mechayev of it is the pattern, if what's the reason you should be choshesh is the fact that she saw gimel pa'amim metzufim, kol zman you don't have gimel pa'amim metzufim, don't be mechayev in this. The pirush. If the mechayev to be poresh is...

I'm gonna say it very strongly: even one time. Even one time. You know who asks this? The Taz. The Taz says that's ... chesh for one time, because he's gonna be ... and therefore ... Yeah? You learned this Taz? How about the ...? ... Look at tezayin. Yeah. אוקיי, דו הלכה. אישה שראתה... אילן... אישה שראתה מחמת תשמיש, ולאחר חדישה חזרה וראתה מחמת תשמיש, מותרת לבעלה, שהרי לא קבעה בשלושה וסתות שווים, ולא בדילוג. מיו. חוששת לאחרון פעם אחת, שכשיגיע חצי שנה מיום ראיית דם האחרון, אסורה עונה אחת. ואם קבעה וסת לראיית דם מחמת תשמיש שלושה זימני, וסת שווה, מותרת לשמש בין וסת לוסת, אך ימי הוסת פורשת עד שיעקר שלוש פעמים. ... תז. מיו. מיו. חוששת לאחרון. אין להקשות... תז. ... אין להקשות... שלוש פעמים אחת טבילתה, ולא בשתי פעמים צריכה גם כן לפרוש בתחילה, כמו אחת דהתם חייל ענן לאוסרה על בעלה, ומכוח חשש זו לא הוחזקה בשלוש פעמים, לא אסרינן לה עולמית על בעלה, אלא דכל היכא שאפשר לחוש, כפי שעה חוששת, כיוון שיהיה לאחר החדר, כן נראה לי, וכן אין זה אחד... Do you have to be choshesh for a one-time rei'ah machmas tashmish? What did you see? He said no, right? But that's... huh? Okay, so I'll tell you what. That'll be understood. The question is, if there's one—it's not kavua, gimmel pa'amim shaveh—do you have to be choshesh the next time, if this vest... The answer is yes. Says the Taz, because the truth is you don't need gimmel pa'amim. You never need. Actually, a ראיה מוכחת from... Why do we talk about gimmel pa'amim? Machmir, le'hotzi al bachazakah. Because since she's a nida, ממילא you don't need vest, like... You don't have to come with vest that's in pattern. It's a chashash, right? Machmirus chashash. It's a problem. But... maybe... ...blood. ...moredik.

Since we're going to ask her only for one day, and then the next day we'll be matir her, she's for a one-time business. I see that. Isn't the pattern of three times that's mechayev chashash? It's that this woman is a re'uyah machmas tashmish. And even if you'll stick into the chuksa, what's the chuksa for? The chuksa is not to aser her on you. It's not for you to be choshesh. It's chuksa for what she is. The idea of chuksa is not that, oh, she might come to see b'shaas tashmish and therefore in our living. She is a re'uyah machmas tashmish. If that's the pshat, then why would she be allowed to be mishamesh with another man if she has to get divorced? Because for him she's not a chazal teaches she's not a re'uyah machmas tashmish. Because the first bi'ah doesn't have this problem. If it's just mitzad the baal that he has to be choshesh, then I can always say once she marries somebody else she doesn't. Chazal teach us that it works that way. Chazal teach us that there's such a thing called re'uyah machmas tashmish for one man and not for another. Huh? You say, right? There's different kinds of... So your argument is... There's a veses to that. I told you this yesterday. But that's the veses of it. The best of it is drabonon. And I'm talking about the chashash when it's gimel pe'amim, it's not the best. What the heker says not like, because he says it. He says, Chacham mekilu because it's lesser habaal. He says that, but watch, you want to rip it out, rip it out. Thank you. I'm trying to say is, if you learn the sugya about the pattern that's mechayev you in the first place, then the pattern has to be there in order for it to be aser. So then you'd not need four times. Then you would need four times. Of course you would need four times. Hashein kein if the pshat is that she's a re'uyah machmas tashmish, and if you want to come and say it's not that way, if you want to prove that it's not that way, you have to come to prove that it's not that way. Why are you machmir then? Safek d'oraisa l'chumra, that's why. I want you to write the following question down. Ready? Write the following question down. Why don't you just do a bedikas shfoteres? Why do we do a bedikas shfoteres after? You calm down. I don't know, maybe you're very excited, you know the sugya well. I'm happy. Baruch Hashem, let me talk. Do you make a bedikas shfoteres? After she's a three-timer, or before the three times, you have to be mechalel check whether she's a three-timer. I'm gonna show you something interesting. You'll read it, okay? Since you're excited, you'll read it. Here. The what? Sure, but that's what we discussed. Let's see the vestes change. Yeah. Yeah, that's the... that's... Okay, I want to read this to you. Here. It says like this. Oh, here. Im ra'asa pa'am achas b'leil Tashmish, mechuyeves שוב בדיקה אחת תשמיש. ואף בזה נחלקו עליו וטהרו הבית. וכתב שאין צריכה לבדוק עצמה מיד אחר תשמיש. That's not true. Those are stories. You never have to check.

Yeah? You have to check afterwards. She's a ro'eh machmas tashmish. So you have to check for the— you have to worry the second time. You have to check. Im ra'asa pam achas b'leil tashmish, mechuyeves shehu l'bedikah achar tashmish. Why? Because if she saw a re'iyah after tashmish, im b'isha she'ein lah veses, b'bedikah she'hischazek b'eino ro'eh machmas tashmish. You have to check to see that you're not a ro'eh machmas tashmish. Achas, then, nechlek olam b'taroves habayis, kasav she'einot tzrichah. Why? Brings from the Ra'avad, shekach omrim, shamashes pa'am rishonah, shniyah, shlishis, lo hizhiru b'bedikah klal. Do you remember who asked this question? Who asked this question? How come the whole thing of bedikah is only after? We have to— yes, we learned the Gemara. We asked, why is the bedikah only after? This was the Ra'avad's thing. V'ro'eh machmas tashmish she'amru b'Gemara, v'yaatzar goshes shegisha b'dam v'lo re'iyah pesek. Pashut she'al. You have to. She saw once; now the next time, what, should she go check for it? Yeah, should she go check if she's a ro'eh machmas tashmish? You say, yeah, right? What do you say? That's all. I'm gonna keep on doing it. I'll keep on hitting you time and every time I'm gonna put the same, you know, I put the same green beans on the table until you eat it. If it's vest, you check for it, like every other vest. If it's about vesting, then you check for it. If it's ra'uyah dam, if it's ra'uyah machmas tashmish, it's not a check. It's not about a check. She's muchzekes to see dam. It's not about vesting. You know how it works? Kol zman, you don't know the opposite. Now I'm gonna go back one more time. Then if it's about, then you should go like this? Um, we could discuss that. Yeah, we'll keep discussing that. Don't look. Don't check. Don't. So a nice teshuvah list, nice. ... What happened? What's wrong? What's the ...? There's no shaylah. A simple story. She was a ra'uyah machmas tashmish Sunday night. Monday night, should she go and check afterwards, or she doesn't have to check? She doesn't check how she feels. She does. That's the whole point. What do you mean, Monday night? Next time. Next time. Monday night she gets... Yeah, of course. You know what? Since it's such a course, and you know what? You read it, and you'll see. Didn't we say this? Didn't we say last time, like, Siman Kuf Pei Vav? That's only the beginning. That's the beginning of her marriage. Oh, this is the siman... Yeah, here. Okay, who wants to read it? There's no... Okay, but read it clearly before I hit you. Give me an over-the-head. Bob, read. ... אין צריך לבדוק עצמה מיד אחר תשמיש, לדעת. אינה צריכה לבדוק עצמה מיד אחר תשמיש, לדעת.

If mashhi rak kodem mikrehu, oshemet tamid hi ro'ah machmad ha-shmish, ve'ein chiluk b'zeh bein ishah sheyesh lah veset kavua l'bein ishah she'ein lah veset kavua. U'mi kol makom, kol ishah she'ein lah veset kavua, tzrichim haba'al veha'ishah livdok atzmam chodesh mishhu b'et shelah v'hi b'et shelah, bishloshet pe'amim rishoniyot achar nisu'eihen. Sweet, that's after the marriage. But what is this halacha? This is general. No, no, but... take this halacha. How do we really... It says, it says she saw. But it says... But you take this out, throw it away. What are you talking about? It says... Stop trying to show you guys don't even read what it says. It never said to check it. I told this to you yesterday. Checking is only... When I read the Gemara to you, I showed you that checking is only אחרי... I told this to you. Okay, what does mean? U'meshameshet shalosh pe'amim, im b'chol shalosh pe'amim ratzufim ra'atah dam, nu. Ra'atah. So who says she has to check? Whether she... Ra'atah, hainu d'in the middle... Margeshet, margeshet. The ra'ayon, the ra'ayon says it's not about bedikah. It's about... Next, next. So what is very poshut? Vestes yitcheck. So the whole... It's not about pattern. It's not... You know what? ... in the Shulchan... the first time she says something... Because she first has to establish that she's not a... Chazal. Chazal. What's the ra'ayah that she is? You're right, but that's the chiddush Chazal. It's Chazal tikun. The way I understand, Chazal want to make sure she's not before you say that she is. So what do you want to say here is this whole, whatever, kedeish toshitei adam. Let's say it's a time period, because what the Shas was talking about is this time period. So let's call this time period five seconds, for example. So, isha sherata adam miyad in five seconds, after the tashmish, after the tashmish, hainu. So it's still considered that he was there when she was niva. That's what you want to say? Exactly. I want to say, what's the miyad? The miyad might not be checking; it's not doing checking, it's time. The issue is not the checking. The issue is never the clear. The issue always is what's called b'shaas. That's what the Shas. So what do you need miyad? Take it out. You don't need it. Sure it is miyad. No, but what do you need? Say, isha sherata adam... The word miyad is right away, not because you have to clarify. I don't believe you have to clarify. Kol zman, you know what I'm telling you? Kol zman, she's a ro'ya machmas tashmish, not b'shaas, machmas tashmish. There's a problem here unless you know that it's from somewhere else, unless you know for sure this. You can't clarify, oh, maybe it's from somewhere else. I asked you this question yesterday. Whenever you're machmas tashmish, maybe it's from the... I asked you that question yesterday. It's such a great question. So they say sfeik sfeik, two sfeik. They took it. I think it's over pashut. Kol zman she's a ro'ya machmas tashmish, there's no makom to declare that it's not unless you know for sure that it's not. If I can help you declare maybe not, that doesn't mean you can't declare maybe not. Maybe. But she has to get divorced because of this. We taka should. That's where bedikas shrufers comes in. That's the whole yesod of bedikas shrufers, to go and check to make sure it's not an aveidah. For the issur of roya machmas tashmish, you would have a problem anyway. One has nothing to do with the other. Al tiroya machmas tashmish, technically you would have a problem even one time. Whereas you go get divorced, the chacham said three times, and then they were mistaken, go check to make sure that it's not an aveidah.

Why don't you, after three times, you check ...? Even on the same daf, check. Huh? Why? What's wrong? They did it. They did it. That's it. I mean, I didn't make it up. Huh? Maybe. I like it. I love it. I love it. Exactly what I want to get at. I love it. You know, that one mechadesh that. That one mechadesh that. That's right. That's right. That's wrong. I want you to write this ... that I said this in public. To take care of the whole problem. Stay long enough and then it's over. The whole thing is over. Ah, so what? As long as you don't know, maybe it's good. Who cares? Exactly what I know. Exactly what's going on. Huh? What's wrong? ... It works. It's not a ... take care and get rid of it. I made — who cares who said it? If you learn it say it, so there's a taich the other way around. I have a hard time believing that. According to that ... What do you want? It doesn't make sense. So write it down. Take a value ... and send them a letter. Okay, there's one more thing I want to finish. There's an interesting Rav peyalim. Horav, Horav... Yeah, it's interesting, interesting, interesting. You don't know what I want. The last five minutes, you don't know what I want. The way the Raya machmas tashmish works could be the pattern of frightens me that you will see the shas tashmish, which is asur. Or, and it's not about the pattern. Gimel pa'amim has not l'tzufim. I takke don't need l'tzufim. I need three times. Not the pattern. It's the fact that it's gimel pa'amim, pshat, shehi is huchzakah to be. It's not the pattern that's mechayev me. It's isha. There's an inyan in isha when she's a raya machmas tashmish that you're not allowed to live. The nafka mina is gargushmach. I'll tell you the nafka mina. If the nekudah is that it's the pattern... Which means it's not that this isha is aser. It's the pattern. So kol zman that you don't have the bor dika pattern, so then what's the mechayev? I just don't do it. You break the pattern, it's finished. You don't have it. Any safek — that's the taich, veses is Rabbanan, safek d'Rabbanan l'kula, because mechtais. It's only once you have an established pattern that's causing me to worry. So kol zman you don't have an established pattern, so then it has to be mutar. Mashenkein if it's not about the established pattern, it's about the isha. So when the isha's chazakah to see, now you want to clarify, maybe, so you're clarifying against the chazakah. That's like I'm saying, sometimes the chazakah starts only after the vadai. And sometimes the chazakah is there, and the clear of the safek is to break it. I'll repeat it one more time. Pay attention. Sometimes it's the chazakah that gives me the reason to worry. So kol zman the chazakah is not sound...

If it's not vadai, then there's no makom to be mistapek. There's no reason to do it. Hashein kein, if it's not the chazakah, it's the issue. It's the issue. So lifanecha, you see that. Now you want to clarify in the chazakah to break it. That's already, lachar ma'aseh, to break a chazakah. That doesn't work. It doesn't work that way. If you haven't reached to break a chazakah, it's fine. If it's the chazakah that's the chayiv, the chashash, the kol zman the chazakah is not borur lifanecha, so there's nothing what to talk about. But where it's not the chazakah, it's the issue, even if you have a chashash, maybe, yeah, but maybe not. Because you see she's ... You found three times. Now you want to clarify, maybe the first time really was. Okay, maybe it's not done. Maybe not. That's what I'm trying to get. All the maybes, I'm not going to change them. Can you say that the two times is megaleh on the first time that when she saw she's ...? It's about the megaleh, but that's part of what I'm explaining. The megaleh won't work unless you taka, you see she's ... But if the whole chashash is the fact that it's three times, you can't say megaleh. What is megaleh after that? Taka speaks out that way, that it's megaleh. Here. ... גם בפעם מיד אחר תשמיש, ואחר שפעם אחת לפני ... ורצה, לא אמרינן גילוי מילתא מפרש, גם בפעם ראשונה ראתה בשעת תשמיש. The shayla is not so much, in other words, what's the reason to be poresh? Is the reason to be poresh because three times she saw machmas tashmish, so you have to be choshesh for the fourth time? Is that what it's about? So kol zman one, two, and three is not there, there's nothing to talk. But if it has nothing to do with one, two, and three, it has to do with the isha, and l'maaseh you see that she saw three times, which is what the creative place is saying, so you want to be mistapek maybe the first time doesn't count, because maybe—who said maybe it's going to change that? Maybe it doesn't change that. The same way maybe it's going to not stain. Yeah, but maybe not. I mean, l'maaseh you see, harei lefaneinu machmas tashmish. That's what we see. And a re'iyah, isha, a re'iyah machmas tashmish. So what do we do? So we come and we check. Now I want to make an interesting diyuk. Why don't we come and say that if you checked and you saw that it was what? Min ha—right? That it's good, she saw that she was healed. Why do we say she's healed? Why don't we just say that it's not stain? The Shra Pas, the Gemara uses lashon, the Shra Pas. So what? But the point is this. The point is that when the reisha is a ro'ya machmas tashmish, what's wrong? Okay, so let's start one more time and we'll conclude. I want to just speak out this ... What happens if an isha is a ro'ya machmas tashmish because of pills? She's taking certain pills, and that causes her to be a ro'ya machmas tashmish. Teshuva: Im zu hi ro'ya dam machmas tashmish shas tashmish, asur l'shamesh imah. Af al pi shehaveses shelah ba bizmanai, v'yesh lomar shemachmas hasimanim shehurgelu bahem, mikodem naslu hateva hazeh, shetira dam b'shas tashmish, kicheinah ein yamuchach. Mikol makom, ein l'hatir b'kach, ki shema dam zeh, af al pi shena'asu lahem machmas hergel b'osah samimanim, hinei hu ba min hamekar v'osah osi b'vadai. Okay? Now, I once spoke to you about this. If you take a—

A pil, that causes dam, so that becomes the vest. So you see that he doesn't hold that way, because he's saying that it's takanat the vest. And af al pi kein, I still think it should be asur. Huh? No, what? What? No, but he's saying, no, he speaks it out that way. He's saying even though be'etzem she has her own vest, and therefore, he says, he speaks it out, but still, makom makom ein lehatir בכך, which means is that the yesod should have been vest. But af al pi kein we get asur. Why? Because sof sof she's a ra'ayah machmas tashmish. What does he say? He always says we worry to get. And in hilchos vestes, you're right, she has a vest. In hilchos vestes she has a vest. But sof sof she's a ra'ayah machmas tashmish. Hinei uba min hakarva, v'osah osa b'vadai. You see what I'm אומר? He speaks it out. Teshuvah: Im zu hi ra'uyah dam machmas tashmish, shetashmish asur l'shamesh imah, v'af al pi sheha-vestes shelah ba bizmano. Yesh lomar, shemachmas hasamimonim shehurgelu בהם מקודם, naflah teva zeh, shetir dam shema. Hichein hi muchzekes, kol makom ein lehatir בכך, ein lehatir b'chol makom, ki shema dam zeh, af al pi shena'asah machmas hargelah bo. Cause by samimonim. Let me ask you a question. These issues are really machmas tash. Is there a heter to do it in a way that should... While... shet b'vadai he seems to know, speaks about it. Hakatzer, read the hakatzer. Yeah, don't go. Hakatzer, who has one of them? Vav, hey, vav, zayin, it's over there. No, no, no, quickly, quickly. Yeah, zayin. How about the zayin? Zayin, read the zayin and then we'll start. Why are we not...? Yeah? Good answer, right? Remember, say, b'chidush. Yeah, but the... Why don't we say, why are we not gozer with the... Why don't we say it should be aser? That's because maybe you might have some.