Hilchos Vestos: A Doctor’s Ne’emanus, Medical Treatment, and Reshus L’Rofeh L’Rapos

Transcript

Okay. I want to discuss, with kuf pei zayin, se'if ches, the hemshech, the inyan of the rofeh. The lashon of the mechaber is, im tirtze lisrapos. Im tirtze lisrapos, if she wants. I mean, maybe she's mechuyev. Well, what's the lashon im tirtze? If she wants to be nisrapeh, if there is such a thing, or is there a refuah that might work, so she should be mechuyev to do it. And I went one step further to clarify what happens, let's say you have a woman, she has already children, and then the refuah definitely is to take out the womb. Is she mechuyev? I mean, she's a chaylah, so fix the chaylah. Go get an operation to take away the sickness. You know, it's interesting that by the vestes, on the tzad that it's vestes, we talk about nistapkah sedeihu lgabei the kesubah. So the choli is the ta'ich that it's her choli, but it's ke'ilu it's his problem. Whenever there's a choli, do we look at it, it's his problem or her problem? She got sick. So is she mechuyev to go out of her way to heal herself? So true, it's also nistapkah sadeihu. I know you can't go and say, Oh, it's your fault, you're sick, it's your fault, you're blaming your wife. I understand that. I understand that there's no, there's no mahalach hamachshavah to say it's her fault. But it's definitely she's sick and she should be mechuyev to go heal what she's sick, right? A woman who's sick is going to come and say, I'm sick, therefore I'm patur from one of my shibudim. No, go to the doctor and heal yourself. And don't pat yourself from the shibudim. Or then he's going to come and say, ... that's your fault. I'm sick, but I'm your property, so it's your problem. I understand, but he can't live with her, and because she's sick, so she's not mechuyiv to go take care of that problem, maybe she's mechuyiv to take care of that problem. The guarantee is if she doesn't have a womb, she's guaranteed. That's, she's guaranteed. I'm asking halacha l'maaseh, you hear? And even if there's no guarantee, I mean, so what? But she should try it anyway. What's the difference? I mean, she's mechuyiv to do whatever she could do to save the marriage. What's im tirtzeh lisrapos? So what kind of a nusach is it? If she wants, what do you mean, if she wants? The shitas haMechaber should have been that if there's a refuah, she should go be misrapeh, unless he means im tirtzeh lisrapos, to be somech on that. It doesn't mean im tirtzeh lisrapos. If she wants to be nisrapeh, and akilu she has a choice not to. No, im tirtzeh lisrapos פירוש to be somech on what the doctor says, v'chulei. Im tirtzeh lisrapos, to be somech on it, right? Because we're talking about the ne'emanus of the doctor. I mean, what's the case? If she's healed, she's healed. I mean, listen, if there's no problem. The question is, but could the baal go and do it now? Maybe. So im tirtzeh, to be somech on the—it's not the tirtzeh lisrapos. The kavanah is not the ratzon to be nisrapeh. The kavanah is im tirtzeh, to be somech on the refuah. And maybe a vadai she's mechuyeved to be nisrapeh. And why do I clarify this? I'm saying, you're right, in Shulchan Aruch we're talking about refuah which isn't drastic, like taking out a wound. But let's say we're talking about a guaranteed thing, and it's to take out the wound. You're right, it's drastic, but it's guaranteed. Maybe you're mechuyev, taka. Maybe you're mechuyev. You owe it to your husband. You're chayli, go fix your chayli. If you're a chayla, go fix your chayli. Now, I brought you from the Rav Baz that there's a halacha that you're not mechuyev to give an eiver for another person. Now, if a person, he's a kidney, he's going to die if you don't give him the kidney. So Rav Baz says, ... the Torah kidney mechayev someone hatzalas nefashos to give up a kidney. Yeah, but it's a little different when it's maybe a wife for a husband. And bichlal the shayla is, a wife mechuyev to give up her own kidney for a husband, especially if the husband owns her. ... right? Kinyanah lo. What would be the halacha if a husband needs a—

Husband needs a kidney. Husband needs a kidney. The wife is mechuyiv to give the kidney. So even if, let's say not, but this is different. This is the pshat, she's takkeh meshubed to him to be healthy in this inyan. I understand, but she's meshubed. Huh? Yeah, because this is what—he married her that she's going to be able to be meshamesh. So answer, what's the... let's talk. I'm giving you this example. Let's say she married a woman, she's supposed to have shibudim to do whatever, achilah, shtiyah, whatever she's supposed to do for him. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I don't feel well. So go to the doctor and heal yourself. What do you mean you don't feel well? Kind of excuse, you don't feel well. What does that mean? If you can't go to the doctor, or the doctor won't help you, then you can come and say, I don't feel well. But if I have an eitzah, maybe I'm mechuyiv to do the eitzah. I'm meshubed to you. How far is the shibud? The shibud of the isha to the baal in this inyan maybe is mechayev her to go heal herself. ... If you want to write a shaila teshuva, write about this. This is what to write about. It's a beautiful shaila. How far and how much is a wife mechuyiv to be nisrapeh, to be with the baal? Sometimes, let's say I have a headache, I can't be with you. Just go take an aspirin. What do you mean I got a headache? Go take an aspirin. You're mechuyiv to go take an aspirin. What, you're not mechuyiv to go take an aspirin? But the aspirin's not much. What about this? Maybe mechuyiv. If you're going to come and it's going to be goyrim that there has to be megaresh her. So maybe she's mechuyiv, paskened to go and then take this operation. And it's eina doimeh to the sugya of you're not mechuyiv to give up an eiver for somebody else, because this is your shibud. Your shibud is to be healthy and take a do tashmish with your baal. So she's mechuyiv. Im tirtzi l'hisrapei. That's the first ha'arah I want to make over here. What's the im tirtzi l'hisrapei? The what? That's a machlokes. That's a machlokes. But l'chorah, even she's... she also doing straight. She doesn't want to say the whole... she doesn't want to do the whole... Just אומר, I don't feel well. I'm not in the mood or something. She's mechuyev. What do you mean? She's shibud. Avadah, go take an aspirin. Avadah, what do you mean? So if that's the case, the next time she won't tell you I have a headache. Now you're talking about hashkafah, I don't know. You're talking that go to a counselor, ask a counselor. I don't look on... No, what do you mean? If there's a shibud, if you don't feel well, go heal yourself. You understand? If you don't feel, then go heal yourself. You understand? She's mechuyev. What do you mean? Go take care of the problem. You're chayav to go take care of the problem. Okay. So go take an aspirin. If, one second, that's what I would pasken. If someone, a woman comes and tells me, I have a headache, go take an aspirin. What does that mean? So go take an aspirin. You owe it to your husband. Go take an aspirin. What's the shaylah? Okay. It's not that she doesn't want. She doesn't want because she's not feeling well, so make yourself feel well. If she cannot, she cannot. I don't understand. If she's coming to say she doesn't feel well, so you tell her, try to feel well. I don't think you tell her to try to feel well. If she runs around during the day, she's running around doing whatever she wants during the day, and she comes at night, I'm tired, I'm tired. So the rav should tell you, mechuyav not to run around during the day, so you shouldn't be tired. Well, what does that mean? It's the same thing. Take an aspirin. And I'm not asking how far does it go. If it's a shaila of ruining the marriage, that she has to be mekadesh, so maybe mechuyav to go and... Who does not? Okay. So the Pam Soifer says, ... יש לה בטבע עולם נאמן. ... וחכם ... ולא דרך בירור. ... אפשר לשמוע בדבר פרטי, אבל כשאומרים דבר כללי מתוך ניסיון, בהרבה גופים נאמנים. Okay, so the Pam Soifer is learning the inyan of the rofeh and his expertise is not to talk...

About this, this person, what to talk about? Derech klal, statistics, ... So does he mean to say as follows? Does he mean to say when they talk about a certain refuah that will work, so they can come to you saying, Derech klal it works, mashenkin they can't guarantee that it works? Or he means to say is that even their decision, their, what do they call that, the diagnosis, based on medical knowledge, even a diagnosis they're not ne'eman. There's diagnosis and there's treatment. Does the Chasam Sofer mean even in diagnosis their ne'emanus is not more than umdana? Or does he mean only in, what do we call, refuah, in treatment, in plan of treatment, it's not more than... Okay, that's another shaila. The hainu, of course, the nafka mina would be is if they come and they say, Barur, this is this. So that could be even not according to the Chasam Sofer. Forget about the Chasam Sofer, that's stam. If they tell you black and white, they see this is this, so then that's clear. But if they tell you that according to the medical, that this means this, right, this means this, so then I don't know, it's not so clear in the Chasam Sofer. Does he mean only in treatment, plan of treatment that will work statistically, or does he say that, or when this means this? For example, these symptoms mean this. Identify the problem. Identify the problem. I'm not sure how to learn up this Chasam Sofer. I'm not sure how to understand clear in the Chasam Sofer. But I want to show you more what he says. Very interesting. So, oid, the raifim leimdim chachmas ha-nituach ha-meisim goyim. Where does the statistics come from? It comes from the meisim goyim. U'gemara isa b'Shabbos v'Niddah, and this is what I love about Chasam Sofer. He was broad. The Sofer was able to, you know, it was not—what do you call it? In Yiddish we have a word called eng. Not closed-minded, very open-minded, very broad. He said, he innovates, very innovative. Here the Chasam Sofer says, wait a minute. Even the statistics comes from goyim. Wait a minute, how do they get the statistics? By goyim, right? But goyim are different. The Gemara says, d'atum achli shekatzim u'remashim, chavli gufayhu. Therefore, they get sicker. You can punch a goy, he says, chavli gufayhu, they're already not as healthy as the Yid because they eat shekatzim u'remashim. Im kein, mahus gufam shoneh. The mahus of the goyf is different. V'ein ladon mikoach zeh al guf shel Yehudi. Rak k'she'omrim shezeh davar klali v'ragil, nemad. So if they come and talk statistics, you're not believed. Very interesting. Halila, you have a cancer patient, right? So the doctors come and they talk to you statistics, right? So you know what you should tell the doctor? That the Chasam Sofer says the statistics of the goyim don't help for the Yid. Davar klali means—so you want to know what the line means? Im kein, mahus gufam shoneh, v'ein ladon mikoach zeh al guf shel Yehudi, v'rak k'she'omrim shezeh davar klali. The ragel. You know what he— I'll tell you what he means. I'll tell you what he means. What he means to say is, it's pretty obvious, you hear? Right. Notice, for example, if you give a culture, right, you give a culture, it's going to take bacteria, so that's a common thing. It's not pshat statistics. I don't know, but he does it. You're right, but he does it. It's gevaldig, but he does it. That's why I'm ... that there's a reason for it. It's because he's trying to push the envelope. Now, let me explain. You push, you try to see further. There's a chiluk between statistics and what's common knowledge. Tell me, aspirin's work, do they put the statistics on the bottle? Because it's a davar haglui, it works. But when they have to come and they give something which is not that ragil, then they talk with statistics. Statistics and ragil, common, is two different things. Common, they're believed on. Statistics, what works for the guy, not necessarily it's the same for the Yid. So if they come and they talk to you statistics, you know what you say? The Chasam Sofer says it doesn't mean anything, because our bodies are different. Let's see if the doctor accepts it. That'd be very interesting. I want to tell you an interesting maaseh.

My mother's father, my mother's father, was a heart patient before the heart surgeries came out. Which means the heart surgeries was in the fifties, when they were doing the heart transplants and heart bypasses was in like in the fifties. In '46, he was a heart patient, and he was a diabetic. So they couldn't really do much, and he was very, very sick. And when he came to Baylinson, that's the hospital in Petach Tikva, so the doctor said that there's no hope. There's nothing you can do. No hope. And he told my grandfather that basically, you know, leave his yonim before he dies and wish to tell his kids what he... So he called in my mother and my father and my uncle, my mother and my uncle, and he told them what the doctor said. And he asked if they can go to the Chazonish. I told you this maise many times. He asked if they can go to the Chazonish. My uncle went to the Chazonish, and the Chazonish heard and he said the following: Tell the doctor, Mikan shenitna reshus l'rofeh l'rape. His job is one thing: do the refuah. His job is not to make decisions, 'mi yichyeh u'mi yamut.' That's not his department. Just give him that message. Eretz nishbala bos. He's not the boss in who lives and who dies. And as far as your father's concerned, tell him to mekabel on himself certain mitzvahs that he'll do l'shem, you know, l'shem Hashem. And this chutz to live. Kachav, my grandfather was mekabel on himself to fillin, the tefillin of the cholim. That was his big thing. He would go to all the hospitals and all the places. It's very cold, you know. Huh? All the hospitals, and he would put tefillin, and he was mekabel on himself. He lived for about 50 years after that story. He never had the surgery. Yeah, sure, from 40. Sure. From 46, he was niftar in '90. When was he niftar? Just now. He niftar, I feel like, what, three years ago. Three years ago. We heard this story eight years ago. No, but he wasn't niftar eight years ago. I told you the story, but he was niftar three, four years ago. Yeah, my naftali heard. Yeah, three years ago, four years ago. It was just niftar, okay? He used to go around with a bag of medicine. Couldn't have surgeries. He was a diabetic, but he lived. The doctor who told him was killed that week, you know that? He walked out of the hospital, and someone ran him over with a car on purpose because he botched a certain surgery. So the family took nekamah, and then they ran him over. They killed him that week. You hear the chazon ish? You hear? Tell him that he's not the boss. Who's gonna live and who's gonna die, you know? Maaseh shehayah, a story that happened, happened in my family. Chazon ish, you hear? So I'm clarifying like this. First of all, when they talk about statistics, you have to know statistics about miyichio miyamus, that's not statistics that they can be telling you about. That's not their department. They talk to you about statistics of miyichio miyamus. They don't have reshus to talk about it. When they talk to you about statistics, refuah — which refuah you should do, that, that's right. So I'm clarifying like this: Mikan shenitna reshus l'rofeh l'rapos. Does that make him like the sofrah and the emanus on these inyanim? I want you to pay very close — I'm saying a moirdige yesod, one that you'll thank. You hear? You hear? You're paying attention to what we're saying here? No, you're not paying attention. No, what I'm saying is, I'm telling you something which you'll, one day you'll appreciate that you heard this. It's a moirdige yesod. Yesod nifla. Mikan shenitna reshus l'rofeh l'rapos. What does it mean, shenitna reshus l'rofeh l'rapos? So his ma'asim have a heter, or it's pashut that he is the baalim. V'safrah lo — what do we learn from v'safrah lo? Mikan that it's her — it's in her, right? Like she's the boss over it. It's heter, maybe not. Maybe it's more than heter. Maybe it's more than heter. Heter means he has the right to do it, that's all, because otherwise...

That is the famous question. If the Eibishter makes a person sick, if the Eibishter makes a person sick, what right, you doctors, to come and make the person unwell? The Torah says you can go against Hashem's will, so to speak. Oydilma, mikan shenitnah reshus l'rofeh l'rapos. Is the taych that he has a bailus in the refuah. He can make decisions in the refuah. His chochmah is the final word, like by an isha mesaperes that she has an emunah to the senior. What are you tying a refi? You like it? You don't have a klarkeit in what, in what I'm talking about in general? You don't have a klarkeit in the concept. Okay. Do you have there the Shevet HaLevi? Okay, read the Shevet HaLevi. You know what? You read it. Send them the Shevet HaLevi. Send it to them. You see what the ... says? You see what's going on? You see what I want? I'm pushing one step further. I'm trying to understand, what does he mean? Does he mean because statistics are off? Does he mean that the whole inyan of a rofeh is not more than just to say the ragel? I mean, statistically, bichlal. I mean, he doesn't have a special... The emunah in anything? A rofe is not more than to take the standard procedure and do it, and that's all. Go ahead. Now what does that mean, eino ne'eman? Eino ne'eman because mechpeisi should be believed? That's the eino ne'eman? Which means is what he's saying is just not to be believed? Or eino ne'eman means he doesn't have a ne'emonus. He doesn't even have a ne'emonus to say, I tell you diagnosis. Let's see, the diagnosis is that you have this disease. No, no I don't. Not true. Just because you said it, who said? Who says? Guf zeh eino megaleh, which means is he did an examination. He's doing an examination, and he's telling you, by the way, that this is eino megaleh. Eino ne'eman. You're not believed. What do you mean you're not? Oh, so that's what I'm trying to clarify. What's the issue? You mean he's telling you that there's no herever, there's no sayer, then I don't need him, right? He means to say is my diagnosis is such, and still you're not ne'eman. So he starts giving a whole speech because where is it based on? It's based on statistics, and the statistics of goyim have nothing to do with Yidden. And maybe he's saying even deeper. There's no ne'emonus to a rofe. A rofe is not about ne'eman. You have a job. You have to be rofe. That's all. No one asks you to do more than that. Go ahead. Read, read, read. They each got to remashin, everything body. So I'm trying to point out that I'm not—what's your question? But he says that the gufim don't work. He says the fact that it works by goyim, it doesn't work here. That means statistics. That's exactly what I just said. That's what I said. The statistics don't work for Yidden. Right, but he talks about gufei meisim, he's saying. Again, he's talking about gufei meisim.

Right. So therefore the statistics are not accurate for Yidden, that's what he's saying. But again, but it's not. So therefore when he comes, he tells you, Sir, you're going to die because the statistics. So you tell him, the statistics don't work. That's exactly what he told you. Yeah, that's who says not, but I'm trying. No, but I'm telling you, for you it's not negeya. That's what he's trying. When he talks about you, you rabbi, you're gonna... you, I don't understand what he's saying. Huh? He's trying to say that the Chochmah v'Roifa is based on the goyish science. Therefore it's not muchach for Yidden. So according to that, because machalas of the Yehudim never saw, and only goyish, does not apply כלל. Even if it is a machlokes, it is, as long as the statistics are not based only on Yidden, it's not a real statistic. It's a made-up. Huh? The general is not good for you. He could tell you, by the way, most people in such a case. All right, fine. So it's good enough. It comes from... it comes from the makor, because it doesn't know what the... it just comes from there, whatever the makor. So that's good enough. So he said, general. It talks about general. Even though it's a statistic, even though it's a... He doesn't have to tell you. Your din is like this. He should tell you statistics. That's what we're saying. The statistic is not good for Yisroel. That's not true. If he's giving you statistics, usually he gives you statistics, 90% of the time this is a makah. It's a statistic. It's a statistic. Why what? Why is he neman if he's speaking close? L'maaseh, when you say neman, what does that mean? You're accepting his word and you're going to act accordingly. I'm telling you, I clarify, that's what I'm clarifying. Is he talking that the statistics don't work, or he doesn't even have a ne'emanus on the statistics? I'm saying a yesod, that could be it's a shaylah of ne'emanus on statistics. A rofeh is not ne'eman in refuah. That's a mareh dike chiddush. What he's ne'eman is to tell you history. By the way, in the book it says—klali he could tell you, but he's not ne'eman on you. I'm clarifying. That's exactly what I'm clarifying to you. I'm trying to ask you, is he trying to say that the chachamim of refuah is not something to be somech on, therefore it's not negeiah, what they say? Or he's trying to say, tifa deher, his ne'emanus is not more than a stranger to tell you the story. I'm telling you, by the way, in the book it says that fifty percent. Or there is a ne'emanus as a rofeh on you in your refuah. Should you trust your doctor? I don't know. It's a good question. I'm not sure. Should you trust your doctor? You know what you should trust your doctor? You should trust your doctor that he's trying his best for you. That's what you should trust your doctor. When you go to a doctor, they go towards everybody else, they just spoke to, that have similar symptoms as you, or they're going according to you as the person that they know? It doesn't make a difference. But what they're saying is, what you're telling them, and they're coming to a conclusion based on what they studied, which is based on the statistics. Not muchach. If most statistics, then it's fine. That would be a whole different story. It'd be a whole different sugya. That's what I'm clarifying. I'm clarifying. Does a roifeh have an emunas in refuah? That's what I want to know. Mikan shenitna l'roifeh l'rapos. Is this about emunas haroifeh, or does emunas ha'ish—grad, his name is roifeh; he happens to be a roifeh. There's a sugya called the emunas of a roifeh. Just like there's samchusa shel a roifeh. You're trusting him. You can believe him. Do you believe what he says? The hainu, the yetzias Mitzrayim. Could you live with this woman because he believed it? He said so. I don't think so. I love it, I love it. Same good. You're not listening to me. You're not happy with what I want. I'm asking a simple thing. Is the issue, is the issue, that when the roifeh talks, so what he's saying is not negea really anything. The thing is, when he talks, klaliyusdik, he's believed to talk. Klaliyusdik, what's going on? Why not believe him? אי דילמא דתאי'ש, that a roifeh has an emunas, a roifeh has an emunas als roifeh. Kan...

The rishus l'rofeh l'rapos. The rofeh have a ne'eman, like a baal. It's like the safek. You're putting it in her hands, so she should be believed. What happened? You're trusting the doctor, so then he has the right to tell you that it'll be healed. According to my knowledge, I feel that she won't have a problem of ... Can I trust you? I don't know. Is the ta'ina like the Chazon Ish? You just do the job and don't give me your opinions. Is that what it is? Or no, the ta'ina is, you can't be baalabos, live and die, but you're zocheh baalabos to say, by the way, with what's going on, the chances are ... You don't have the reshus to give a final, you know, life and death, what will be. But if you're zocheh to have the right to state an opinion, according medically, if you'll live or you'll die, well, that also ... Not ne'eman. He said ... What difference what he said? I saw they all ask the kashya, you see that a rofeh is ne'eman l'gabei Shabbos. And the answer is because once he says it, it's a safek. And once it's a safek, meileh ... But the ta'ina is, a rofeh says ... l'gabei Shabbos, why not? You ask a medical experience. You ask medical experience. See, that's where the nekudah is. Is the ta'ina, you have to come on to a safek pikuach nefesh? Or the pshat is that it turns into a vadai pikuach nefesh. Look, ... says it's safek. The doctor makes it into a safek, and now it's a safek, a safek. It's a chaim v'shtikus Torah. It's just Torah. Because since the doctor says that it's a danger, so therefore he makes it into a makom to declare that it's a danger. I'm not trusting him. He gives me a good reason to declare. Once he gives me a good reason to declare it's a safek, then safek I go and I do it. I would say not. I would say there's an emunah to it, really. It's not true. Our shailah you ask a rav, and a medical shailah you ask a doctor. That's it. Huh? That's by goy. Goy. Now I want to discuss this. The Igros Moshe, Rav Moshe Feinstein, zecher tzaddik livracha, paskens, even a goy. The same thing the doctor, that's all. It says good and says. He writes in teshuvos. Yud-zayin, go ahead. You have it there? Go ahead. Siman yud-zayin, os yud-zayin. Even a goy. That'll make a difference. Doctor says and the doctor says. Again, the... go ahead, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. Okay, get to the point. Even a goy. Get to the part where he says because al פי meirim... The Moshe pastes that a person is like nireh b'nafsh. ... Yesh la'aminon, last line. Yesh la'aminon, lo rak k'shein shomrei Torah, ela afilu k'she'einam shomrei Torah, afilu nochri. Not like the chutzani, not like the...

It doesn't say the miss. ... That's not like that, Rashi, here. אפילו יש מעילה כשם שמיתהר, אףילו שאינם שמיתהר. ואפילו נוכרי, דלא מיירי נעשה. Remember I talked about kefel yesterday? I was so happy. I was so happy. I knew that I was heading the right way. I didn't see anyone talking about it. It has to. Lo meiral noting, that's his profession. Kefel has to be only a Yid? I'll tell you what I think. That's what I want to tell you. I don't even think R' Moshe is saying what we're saying either, and I'll tell you what I mean. There's an inyan of lo meiral noting. That has nothing to do with rights; that has to do with any profession. Lo meiral noting is in any profession, kefel, even by basar b'chalav. What I was clarifying was especially in a goy. You see R' Moshe goes one step further. R' Moshe is saying it's not about goy; it has to do with any professional. You could trust a professional because he's not going to ruin his job. Lo meiral noting. Yeah? I'm trying to tell you. I showed yesterday the Remisah Karel fact is not like that. Now I want to tell you where I hear the heart of this sugya. The Aruch HaShulchan is very important. I want you to learn. The Aruch HaShulchan learns that beis din is only in eid echad. But there's a .... And then he says, but there's a raya l'dover, that there's a shtikel mashma, like there's a tzad that there's a ... right, there's a mashma'us. Yeah, the Aruch HaShulchan — where's the Aruch HaShulchan? Take it out, take it out here. The Aruch HaShulchan says, why is the doctor Neeman? Here. Here it is. Here. Oh, he even says it more. He says it clearly: V'al kol zeh eino ela safek. Oh, he says, mamash here, he says it. I don't know why I didn't see this. I saw the next piece and I didn't see this one. Here: V'al kol zeh eino ela safek, d'yesh lomar l'hepech, d'keivan dhaTorah nasnah reshus l'rofei l'rapos, v'davar zeh hu machlo, u'vavadai yesh lo zeh refuos, v'havi ki laTorah mina lei, b'sha'aman nisrapes. I knew it, I knew it, I knew I'm right. I knew it. I knew it. I hit it right in the button. Right here it is. I knew it. See, I saw the next piece where he talks about reglayim l'davar. Here's the next one: V'fi zeh ne'emar, d'afika mishnei ... d'ein ze bor shenispachal harofei, lachen kasvu lashon yesh mistapek. Lachen, k'sheyesh k'tzas raglayim l'davar, nosnim chalah l'rofeh. Lachen afilu b'pam echad shera'asa harofeh ripuis, af raglayim l'davar yachol ... gam l'hizchazek u'tasin hatzad hasheini, reshus l'rofei nitnah laTorah ne'eman b'chol ma sheyomar. Here it is, ... halacha, v'lo l'maaseh, v'yesh l'.... Here it is. How come the Chinuch books don't bring this down? Let's say everything but. No, look, he says ... You hear the yesod? A doctor has a ne'emanus. A son-in-law, an ish has a ne'emanus on a nida. A doctor has a ne'emanus on a nida, and a rav has ne'emanus on that. That's what I told with the yesod this I was telling. There is a din ne'emanus by a rofeh on his inyanei refuah. ... There's no ... He could come with his mind and say, Lefi la'anius daati, this is it. You like it? Us Litvish, we say good. This has to do with Litvish. This is Litvish. This is where Litvish. You want to know where Litvish is? In this piece you'll find Litvish. That's Litvish. It's to push it to understand what, what shteit, what is it, ...

Wow. This is it. This seat is right here. That's this ... I really should feel bad that he stole my yesoid, but it's all right, I'll give it to him. Baruch Hashem, Baruch Hashem. I'm mechaven to the ... Baruch Hashem, Baruch Hashem. ... it's ... it's bad, it's ... it's umdanus. What umdanus? What are you talking about? What are you saying? He's a rofeh. That's his job. Mikan shenitnah reshus l'rofeh l'rapos, he is the final. You trusted the doctor. Oy vavoy. Klare shaylah. That's what he says. It's not real. It's not true. It's not true. He writes in ... it doesn't mean that. To give me that ... I don't care. I'm telling you, I know that the world learns it differently. This is also yesoid. Understand this: a rofeh is a ne'eman. A rofeh is a ne'eman. A rofeh is a ne'eman. You just don't want to be ... the ... from his place. No, I hold that's true. I hold ... right. You should trust your doctor. The doctor tells you to heal, you should heal. It doesn't make a difference. It's not ... Mikan shenitnah reshus l'rofeh l'rapos. ... Fine. What happens? What? I don't know he has ... Maybe he made a mistake. Yeah, maybe the rav made a mistake. But that's the ne'emanus haTorah; you have to believe him. Believe in what? Why would he not know what he's talking about? Okay, if you want to know what does he do with the... maybe he didn't see the... He doesn't do automation. Everything is automation. Hasn’t... I want to ask a shaila. You ready? What happens if the doctor is a first-year medical school? What happens if you walk into the emergency room, the doctor is a resident? Does the rofe have to be a rofe mumcheh? You understand? Mumcheh. Does he have to be a mumcheh? You understand? That's a rofe. The moment he gets his medical degree, is he called a rofe? Does he have this ne'emanus? I'm clarifying maybe. If it's taluy on him, clarifying if he knows, if he doesn't know. But if there's a din, a mikan shenitnah reshus l'rofe l'rape, once he becomes a rofe, once he has a din rofe, then you don't have to clarify. So there's a diploma that makes him... ...yadai even... ...yadai even... ...b'vayin kach. The diploma... ...when he gets a degree... I'm asking. That's what I'm asking. Maybe only with the... on those days you... Maybe you do... You sound very familiar. This shaila looks very familiar to me. You know who asked this? West. Me, just now, that's what I said. Exactly what I just said. Exactly what I just said. What is west? Exactly what I just said. Maybe if a guy doesn't have a diploma, but he's a doctor, maybe he can be .... After what you said, you said you want to say yes. I would say maybe yes, maybe, maybe. You have to learn my language. You don't say my language. My language is ..., that's a sheilah. ... That's right, maybe. That's exactly what I'm getting to. That's my next sheilah. What happens if you go over to the Babushka? The Babushka tells you that she has vitamins and herbs, and in her country it's worked and it was tremendous, and Don Quing, whatever. What else? Ravelsky says Don Quing in the klang, whatever the name of the medicine is, the herb, and it works. Makes you that feel so good. Does it have to be refuah? Could be an eitzah. If you learn it's ... רשות לרופא לרפאות.

Rapois. It could be she didn't the roife. But if it's not, ... it's a reshus l'rofeh l'rapo'os, so you have to see. Maybe it works. Maybe the, what do they call, the grandmother, what do they call that in the... no, they have home remedies. Maybe the home remedy will work. Maybe the home remedy will work. The home remedy, not a refuah, that's a home remedy. Maybe it will work. Because the ... there's not even a shaylah anymore. But if it goes exactly ... then you check the refuah. Then you can trust the doctor in the end. And if you see the refuah is good, then you can trust the doctor. So it's not about the refuah of the doctor. If you see the refuah is ... then immediately, what I'm trying to say, this comes, this doctor, and he says to you, listen, take this for ten days, then you're good, you can be mishamesh, yeah? Okay, if it's a rofeh Yisrael, I can say, yeah, but if it's a goyish doctor, no, I want to see after the ten days, I want to see, I want to check more, and then I can trust the doctor. Because I can't trust the doctor. But what happens? She's your grandmother. So then she is different. Yeah, okay, she trusts it. I trust my grandmother that this is going to work. She doesn't... She tells you that when she came from Tashkent, this is the way they did it. Why can she be called a rofeh? Maybe she's a rofeh. No, even if she's not muchmas. But she knows what she meant. I'm asking, that's what I'm... maybe you don't need a rofeh. A rofeh means a woman that knows that it works. You don't have to have a name, diploma. This is the shiur I want to give you on... Tomorrow, dam sula. Can I ask a question, Rebbe? Rebbe, at the end, how can you believe... It didn't work, it didn't help, huh?