Hilchos Niddah: Blood Through a Shefoferes, Chatzitzah, and Derech Re’iyah

Transcript

Okay. So, shfoyteres. Sfoytsia. Va, dam tehorah, kuf ches yud gimmel. Hichnisah shfoyteres. Till where? Yes, so you saw where it says that in the Shulchan Aruch? The Gemara says that. Correct, but for some reason the Shulchan Aruch doesn't stress that. Hichnisah. I don't like what you're saying. I'm very angry that you're saying that, because there's a very interesting nekudah that I think we have to speak about. The lashon of Rashi and the Gemara. So you claimed the lashon Rashi and Gemara. Can we take out that Gemara and read the Gemara and the Rashi? Hichnisah — let's go, chaf aleph amud beis. I want to know, to where? Hichnisah shfoyteres — to where? Yeah? Yeah. Okay. You said the word mekar was there. You claimed that the word mekar was in the Gemara, right? What? Okay, I know, but you were claiming that it was in the Gemara. Has to be in the mekar, because the machlokes is stam sefer, no? Okay, okay, but don't make conclusions yet. Did the Gemara say mekar? The Gemara said ba'oso makom. Could you read the Rashi? Okay, now not one word does it say mekar. So I said, hichnisah shfoyteres, so I said... Til wear, and everybody said, What do you mean? The Mekor, the Gemara says. There's no such Gemara. So who else said it? Did anybody else have anybody—what? Okay, okay, okay. So can I explain to you that there is a whole shaila if there is tzavar chitzon and tzavar pnimi. You know of that? So wouldn't it be relevant that it's here? I mean, it's a very interesting nekudah, no? Okay, there's a Bach. The Bach brings down two shitos, all right? Til wear is this shveiferes, meaning, it doesn't speak about the shveiferes as much as what's called psichas harekem, to be motzi dam. Is it tzavar hachitzon or tzavar pnimi? The Bach is in siman lamed daled and lamed hei, teshuvos. And if you want to have a great arichus on this topic, you can look at the Igros Moshe in his teshuvos, Yoreh Deah chelek aleph, siman pei gimmel. So, did I ask you a good question? Til wear. Very fair question. Igros Moshe, Yoreh Deah chelek aleph, siman pei gimmel. So right away showed you that you didn't pay close attention to what you read. No, you weren't reading it right. Echles shveiferes, til wear. I mean, it's relevant, no? Again, it's til wear he put it, right? Well, Rashi says, boysem makom, and I'm going to show you even the word oysem makom I don't like so much. But I don't mean I don't like; I like that Rashi said it, but I like that you were happy with that. Did you read how the Rambam reads the halacha? Yeah. Where does he put it? He doesn't use the word ois makom; he uses a different word. Perek hei. Let's go, let's go, let's go! But the Bach says that the din of Rabbi Eliezer in Mexico. How can you bring that? Not exactly to the opening of the makom, because the blood would immediately might go into the shfoferes, but it goes like this, also into the shfoferes. That's why I have to talk. Don't you understand why it's important to know what we're learning? And this is why I come here to teach you how to read, because you could read something and not know what you're reading. Shichniso shfoferes. Till where? Thank you. Is that the same way as saying the word ois makom? No. You see that the Rambam went out of his way to say the word prozdor. Bi-prozdor. Okay, so I want you to write down the following. Pay attention. Moishy! No, you're not. You're sleeping. I'm getting angry. So write it down. Hichniso, tzarich iyun, ad eifoi. ArtScroll?

Tell me the pshat. What? I'm saying you have to read the words: הכניסה, שויפערעס, you hear? Where? Till where? All Rashi says was, באיס המוקם. He leaves me very, very, very not clear till where. I see that the Rambam stresses not the word oiso makom, but he wants to go—he gives you already a little bit of a where. Till where, not, but where. Is it relevant, oiso makom, where, till where? We're going to learn how relevant it really is. Okay. והוציאה בה. Does anybody know the difference, והוציאה לה and והוציאה בה? Does anybody know the difference in—not only lashon—what would be the difference in case, the whole different case? That's right. והוציאה בה. Bah could mean like b'soch. Through it. והוציאה בה, in it. Bah. Bah could also mean al yada. The more simple translation is what? Bah. Yeah? Through. Not oleha, not on it, not through it, not because of it, but in it. Could you read me the Rashi? Tocho. Rashi goes out of his way. Bah doesn't mean with it, but bah means in it. You could say bah means also with it. Oh, I'll tell you, very big nafka mina. You know, the nafka mina is this whole seif. The whole thing from the beginning to the end, you have to know if it's in it or on the outside. Very important. In or through it. That's right. You have a tube. Through it. That means in. Why didn't we just... And on it would be on the outside. It says it's between. Who told you? It says it's between. Not the... Let me, it's a tube. It's an empty tube. Tube. Let me... it's a tube. That's a tube is amazing. The thing in it is that it's in the tube. Not through. On it. And on it, he took out a tube and it's all bloody. There's not a chatzitzah. You know what I want to show you? That if you think there's a chatzitzah in the words, if you think there's a chatzitzah in the words, you didn't learn one word in this seif. This is the... the two ways how to learn. There's two ways how to learn. I don't know, because I can't learn there. I have to learn. I don't know. My mind isn't here. My mind is here. I can't for one second take my mind off this seif. Rashi, v'nimtza bah. Why is this relevant? Does anybody know the reason for this halacha of shechitah? And the answer is... All right. Not wrong. It's what it says in the Gemara. Does anybody know what that means? That's already not important. There's two ways how to learn. One way how to learn it is bifsara, and this never touched besarah because it went through a tube. And the tube, it was blocking the blood from the thing. That's just mashma from Rashi. You look at the prisha, the drisha, that's how they learn that, that the tube's blocking. Is that what the Rambam says? The Rambam doesn't say that. Rambam says something completely different. The Rambam says, shederech. It has to do with derech. It doesn't do hatzaah. Normal blood flow, the word nida. Nida means the flow, normal flow. This is not a normal flow. You have to be more excited. I know you're tired, so watch out. I'm also tired. Put you in a bad mood? It can be worse. So come on. You hear what I'm saying? Come on, okay? It's two whole different things. As the shiur progresses, I'm going to ask, wait a minute, nimtza bo, in it makes sense according to Rashi, right? According to the Rambam, it's not really necessary. The Rambam says what? Like Rashi.

Even inside, where is it? Betoch. Rashi, he goes out of his way to say that it was on the inside and not the outside. I'm quick to say a pshat you'll never hear anywhere else, but it's halacha l'Moshe miSinai, right? I know Moshe Rabbeinu told it to us. Kol ma shetalmid osid lischadesh, kvar nitna l'Moshe miSinai. Moshe Rabbeinu said it. And this is Torah shebaal peh. This is the real pshat. I'm going to answer this kasha. I have a really big pshat on this, and I hope that if you understand the sugya well and the Shulchan Aruch well, you'll see that this is taka pshat in the Rambam, according to the Rambam that has to do with re'iyah k'derech hanashim. So why does he talk about betocho? That's according to Rashi, hefsek. If I took a stick—you know women who have menstrual flows from sticks, that they poke themselves and it comes out? You know such a story? That's called k'derech hanashim. So it doesn't have to do with inside; it has to do with any inside, inside, outside, any side. I have to answer this question, the pshat kashya, and I'm going to give you an answer. But before we do, now let's discuss the shfoferes, the hefsek, the mebtzara. Okay. We said that lo yatzuir, it was outside, and you really don't have the tremendous ma'alah of chatzitza, right? Because it's not inside, not by the flesh; it was on the outside to touch the flesh, right? That's what we said. While if it's on the inside, then you have this, so to speak, loophole that it's a chatzitza. Therefore there's no problem with the tevilah. In the world of halacha, there was an invention by Reb Shlomo Zalman Auerbach. It's going to be called, in the sefarim, in the world of halacha, chiddushei shel Reb Shlomo Zalman. You know, certain things, certain things are, you know, given. For example, Rav Shimon Chai was mechadesh the Zohar. He's got credit for the Zohar. This is named, like, R' Moshe's heter. This is Reb Shlomo Zalman. That's what it's referred to in the... R' Moshe's heter is the mechitzes. But the mechitzes are R' Moshe's psak, okay? One of the things Reb Shlomo Zalman is claimed to fame is this thing. I'm going to explain what, first a little information, then we'll get to his thing. I'm going to show you that the Shevet HaLevi, as a matter of fact, what do we call that, makes mention to it. On the shelf. But he doesn't— no, no, no, no. He doesn't want to say who it is. You know, you saw it? That Shevet... very, very interesting. I know who it is. No, I'm trying to break it down. He brings the Shevet HaLevi that he doesn't want to say who it is. I know. I'm trying to tell you that he brings, and not like those that want to say— he argues on him. He doesn't want to say his name. So either the pshat is he doesn't want to give credibility to the psak, or he doesn't want to argue, but to argue Reb Shlomo Zalman... I don't know, but it's a cute way of bringing down the most famous psak on this se'if is just to, like, allude—that's the word—he alludes to it and argues on it. All right. What is Reb Shimon? Okay. The Rav Shulchan Aruch, in siman kuf pei ches, se'if katan ches, brings a Rosh, okay? And he says that there's actually two sugyas here. One is that it's zav through the shvayferes, and one is that it's zav on the shvayferes. This is what we spoke about. But he wants to say the exact opposite chiddush, which is: when it's through the shvayferes, it's derech re'iyah. Why? Because it's flowing. It's flowing. It wasn't taken out. Ma she'ein kein, if you took it out, so it didn't flow. I took it. I took it. It doesn't make a difference, he wants to say. Even if you only saw blood in, I don't care, but it flowed. It doesn't make a difference. The point is that it's no good. It's tamei because it's flowing through. So then everything is tamei.

No, it's not. But if I went in with a stick and I pulled it out, somebody could fall off a tree and somebody could be plucked off the tree. Did I say—did you hear me one word say on top? I don't—I'm just telling you, on. I'm sorry, I didn't wear the word top, sorry, on, which means I took it out. I don't know if you noticed. I don't know if you noticed. He's medayek this in the Rosh. Now the truth is, even without all this, look at the words: hichnis ha-shfoferes v'hotziah bo. Look at that. Bedikah doesn't go there. Can bamin with it, Rebbe? You don't pull out. Rebbe, that far. That's from the Rosh. Bedikah don't go there. You can get your thing in. Can bamin's with it? I told you, I told you, I told you, bo can mean with it. When you make the bedikah, it's not from the rechem. Yes, so then the proof is one blood. You're taking it out of the rechem. You're sticking it into the rechem and you pull it out. Wow. You see? So far I showed you the word hichnis, so you didn't know. Well, the word shfoferes, I guess you knew. Maybe not. You know, maybe not. You know why? Does the shfoferes—a thick thing—is it already later acharonim? Is it a tube or a stick? Does it have to have a chalal? Rashi says. Does the Shulchan Aruch say chalal? Okay, so I could just tell you, I could just tell you that we're soon going to learn that it's the opposite pasuk. That really, if you took it out, it would be no good, and if it's floated out, it will be good, which is the chiddush of Rishonim. And the case of no good wouldn't make a difference if it's a halo tuva, not halo tuva, right? That's the difference. I like what you said. Now I lost you. Are you asking me a kashya that if I forced it out, that's therefore it's not a real re'iyah? That's what you're asking me? Don't say somebody, because that's not — it's a noi d'Yehuda. I mean, that's the Noda B'Yehuda, that you could stick a guy, you could stick a rechem. Yeah, that's the Noda B'Yehuda. So it's not somebody, it's the Noda B'Yehuda. So good, I'm not going there. I'm not going there. Forget about that. I'm talking about before that. We're going to go there later. We're going to stick the Noda B'Yehuda with a tube later. We're not holding there yet. First I want to know this part: hichnisa shfoferes. I want to know the case, halo tuva, not a halo tuva. So if you're saying it's going through, it's got to be a halo tuva. If the story is veitziah, that I took it out, it has nothing to do with halo tuva. And the Rav Shulchan Aruch wants to talk about hotziah, in a case, in case I took a stick and I took it out, right, that's called shelo k'derech re'iyah, and then it would have to be what? Tehorah. So according to him, I want to add, add, add. I don't know if everybody else does that, but it could be done. It should be done. I'd like to add—not an add for a paper, but an add l'hosif. Oh, adds to add? For paper, it's add. Okay, okay, relax, relax. So this is what the Rav Shluchan Aruch wants to mechadesh, that if it went through, that's called normal re'iyah. And if it, what, if it's on top, meaning I just pulled it out, that's called not normal. And I'm just showing you how he learned the lashon, v'hotzia bah. Bah doesn't mean through, but bah means with it. And hotzia—the nekudah is, I took it out, I forced it out. What do you want? I took a stick and I took it out. That's called a re'iyah. What? What's the... That's exactly what I'm saying. Halotzut is not necessary. Okay. So Rashi learns chatzitzah, because Rashi learns the whole sugya different. If you learn shelo k'derech re'iyah, it doesn't have to be a halotzut. Show me again how the Rambam talks about...

Okay, now let's go further. I just want you to look a little bit around. The word chisum comes up sometimes. Chiset, splinter, stick. You look around, you'll see, you'll smell that the word chisum comes up. I don't remember where I saw it. I know, but this is what I'm getting at, that the word shvaiferes, l'choira, according to Rav Shlomo is not necessary. Shevet HaLevi comes along and just says, you know something, I know that the Rav Shlomo was a big person, and usually chassidim do follow the Rav Shlomo. He doesn't say it that way, but that's Rav Shlomo Cherav, okay? Ashkenazim, litvish, call him Shlomo Cherav, and they call the Rav Shlomo. And he could have a vad yosef; his real name is Yosef Avadya. So, okay, now, so what you have is the Rav Shlomo. So the Rav Shlomo... comes along, one active lower, because I'm paying attention too much, yeah, comes along the Rav Shlomo and says this chiddush, says the Shevet HaLevi, so he said it. I'm cholek. Cholek, I don't agree. Yeah? Now, I really don't know, you know, like, why he feels that he should be cholek on him. I'm not really sure, like, maybe not. You want to see the Shevet HaLevi, like he just... I hold differently. Huh? I know, but I just didn't understand why he just like, all right, you know, the Rav Shlomo ... You fine, you're fine. I don't pay. Go, go fine. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Kisi says, I don't pay attention. All right, that's what he says. Rav Shlomo, I don't know why, he's saying good stuff. He's saying good stuff, good stuff, he says. Basically, he just said, all right, so I just now gave you one side of the coin. What's one side of the coin? If it went through the shvaiferes, then it is good, that it's a regular nidus, good meaning it's a regular flow, and it's tamei. But if it was the kisim, it would be tahor. And Rav Shevet HaLevi says, I don't care, chalilah l'hakel, chas v'shalom. Okay. Comes along Rav Shlomo Zalman, says, guess what? I'll do it the other way around. Put the shvaiferes through, so you have Rashi's shita of chatzitza. And that's a great heter. But now on, when a woman is having trouble because she's ovulating early, she wants to be metaher l'baalah early, so let her put a thing over there, let it flow through the thing, and therefore she's not a niddah. Of course, what I can say, it's mutar peshita, I mean, then she's never a niddah. Every time she puts a tevilah, it'll be the latest, you know, and it'll be stamped with the rabba machshir, and Rav Shlomo Zalman, there's no more hilchos niddah anymore. So now on, just put a ketubah and it's finished, right? It's only b'makom piru u'rvu, because the woman has problems, she can't get pregnant. You won't need any. She's not a niddah. She's not a niddah. She's not a niddah. She's not a niddah forever. Rav Shlomo Zalman is giving away how a woman could be never a niddah, and he's right, according to Rashi. It's a good cheshbon. And you hear what he's saying? ... Rashi. Go read how he brings Rav Shlomo Zalman's psak. ... He says, I don't like the whole, it's not for me, because who said? Who said that you get it mamish? Who said? I'll tell you who said. You go to a doctor and let him insert it properly.

What, weird? Don't wear me. Go to a doctor. What weird? That's how you pasken? Wear me? Who said? How do I know? You go to a doctor. You know, today they're able to make you that you're a bionic woman. Make you this. So put a tube and fix it. Who said? You know who says like this? Rav Chatzkel Rosh. Sefer. He has a gun in the back, and he writes. So who said? And how do you know? Chas v'shalom. They must have conversed together and said, you know, we'll do this as a joint effort. I don't know. Same thing. He says the same thing. Who said that? You know it's not going to spill on the side? Maybe it's going to spill on the side. I don't know. Let it stay for seven days with that. Let me tell you something. They could surgically put a tube into somebody. What are you... Back in Yeshiva, this is a psak halacha. I mean, don't get me wrong. Posek hador, of choshen. Prize. Huh? No, I don't think he meant. I thought he meant. If it's already there, seven days is enough. That's not part of the... You should say that maybe, but that's not what he said. But that's the... seven days. No, no, that maybe. You know what? Let's make that as a substitute to this shiur. I mean, it's a nice shaila. Maybe, case if you surgically put it there, that... by a doctor, maybe it's called part of you. Let me tell you, for seven days it's considered not kavua. Fillings, it's a whole shaila what's called kavua. I know, something that you take out every seven days, I don't know if it's called kavua. I don't know. Maybe it's chatzitza, maybe, but not for chatzitza you can say that. I'm saying, so there, in case there's no problem, it's part of your guf. But when you look in the... Yeah, maybe when it's part... There is a case to put it in both. It's not called chatzitza. He wants to say it. I see, but he wants to say, but once you put it in, because part of the woman... Don't come and tell me it's impossible. Don't tell me the reason it's impossible to get it, that it shouldn't be... It is possible. Rafi, Rafi, Rafi, listen to me, kid. Listen to me, listen to me. I have a better thing. You know why I'm not accepting what you're saying? One is because then he should have said that that was his reason. Second of all, I'll tell you what bothers me. You don't have to do it for all seven days. Maybe you missed two days, right? So she bleeds for seven, so put it in in the fourth day, so she stopped having a flow already at the fourth day. Put it in earlier, no? So you make—was she can make hefsek taharah? I don't know. Maybe you could put it in a tube to make hefsek taharah. But once she started bleeding, maybe— I don't know. That's what I'm clarifying. I'm clarifying, maybe. No, but then she's shivah nekiyim. You can't do that, because once she starts bleeding, she for sure has dam. You don't have shivah nekiyim, but you don't have the seven days of bleeding. You don't have to eliminate it completely. Let her bleed for two days, and then put the tube in, put the tube in, so she's not called a nidah anymore. We got to be blood flowing, then she starts shivah nekiyim. She isn't either. Again, he's not trying to make her not a nidah, just to stop the flow, that's all. Just stop the flow. Unless you say chiddush that the pshat is once the blood starts coming, it's not called a nidah anymore. I don't know, I don't know. Listen, the options are out there. Once you start opening the doors of a chiddush, go all the way. Was Rebbe ever matir Rav Shlomo Zalman or somebody? Yes. Rav Shlomo Zalman was a gadol hador. And everyone uses that. Chol hamoed after Rav Shlomo Zalman, he was here after hashkachah. Nothing wants to talk. He was a gadol hador. No one wants to talk. It's like being meharer after the person comes to ask a rav, What do I do, Rebbe? Yes, tell you, Rav Shlomo Zalman said. That's not—what's the gadol hador? What's there to talk about? I don't even know what your safek is. A woman can't have children, she'll be somech on Shlomo Zalman for something? What are you talking about? Yes. I heard no help. No, no, no, no. It brings about maka. It touches the maka, and even the maka is in the makor. I'm jumping ahead in the shiur. Yeah. Yeah. You're saying good, but not yet. Let's wait. They're going to lose you. I know what you want. I know exactly what you want. Wait, wait, we'll get there. I'm first, little by little, giving you the sugya to understand.

Yeah, what is it? You could do that also. But he was saying if you put in something for seven days, it's כאילו she's part of her body now, so then it's a normal blood flow. Rabbi, I'm asking you, I mean, I hold Reb Shmuel's ... Why are you with it? You would hold it is normal, and it isn't called a regular flow, and it is a chatzitza, and it's not. And you want to know something? The truth is, who said besarah has to do with normal? Besarah has to do with—it has to touch the flesh, it has to touch meat. I understand that, but I'm just trying—I don't know if that's called darkah in the metzius of the person. I don't know. Okay, you could clear back and forth. If something is there forever, so then the din of besarah hefsek would be a problem. I don't know. It's a shaila. Maybe it's not called a chatzitza because it's there forever. I don't know. But tzarich l'soiv is not besarah. Maybe it's a gezeiras hakasuv, besarah. I mean, if it's gezeiras hakasuv, besarah, all your lomdus chatzitza is not nogeia. And even that, the Gemara says too, darkah b'chatzitza. Even if it's gezeiras hakasuv, it doesn't matter. That's what darkah— that's what there. Okay. Okay. Now let's go further. Chazku in his sefer does have a legitimate ta'ina. Something—I mean, this part I didn't get, but the other part I understand. Do we pasken like this Rashi? Did the Mechaber pasken like this Rashi? L'choira not, because the next case is, v'chein im rasa dam b'chatichah, afilu hi mufkas v'adam b'koyin, b'einon shenogea b'besarah, tehorah, kivan she'ein derech lirois kan. You see clearly that he's poskening like the Sami Kaitzi, that has to do with the re'iyah derech and not the chatzitzah, not like Rashi. It says, how could someone pasken l'maaseh, I need to connect to the Shulchan Aruch because there's a Rashi in the Shas. What? It comes out that way. It has to be that way. No, so he has to be that he learned Shvoiferes, there's not do with chatzitzah. It means the mechaber is not going to learn it. He's going to learn like the Shulchan Aruch HaRav. Hachnisas shfoiferes has to do because it's not derech re'iyah, not because it's chatzitzah. You see that he's learning v'chein, it's the same sugya, v'chein. He says that, otherwise why is it together? V'chein. And so too, it has to do with the fact it's not derech re'iyah. Avada, he's right, because he's right. But you don't know that. Rashi never learned that has anything to do with— Rashi never learned has anything to do with chatzitzah. Rashi— I'm sorry, the Shulchan Aruch never learned has anything to do with chatzitzah. The Shulchan Aruch learned it has to do with derech re'iyah, right? If you learn that it's derech re'iyah, so the pshat is anything which is a normal flow is good. Reb Shlomo Zalman is going with the chiddush of Rashi that it has to do with chatzitzah. The shittah that cholek on Rashi is more meikel than Rashi. It's not besides. Fakert, the Rav Shulchan Aruch explains that through the shfoiferes is not the point to the second shittah. It's not going to work according to the second shittah. This is what paskening the Shulchan Aruch. Anything that's blocking the stuff in here. I don't see it. According to Rashi, the case of shfoiferes and chatzitzah. Shekeis sheferes through is no good. It only works if you work with chatzitza. I didn't see anybody say that it must be through moitzi daas. Not anywhere. That's the Shulchan Aruch, and that's the ... That's their chiddush. Could be the other poskim think it's through; it's shatakal darker. Through. Okay. You're stealing my shiur, because that's really what I want to say. You got to wait. I'm going with the fact that, so far, the way the poskim build it up is: learn that it's derech re'iyah, and then it comes out that it's only if you're motzi. But masheinkein through shluchei, it's not good. So Meileh Rav Chatzkel is asking, because don't forget, they take the Shulchan Aruch Harav as like the Shulchan Aruch. Then there's no, I can argue the Shulchan Aruch Harav doesn't work that way. So if the v'chein in the Shulchan Aruch means v'chein, that it has to be derech re'iyah, so he writes clearly. You have Rav Chatzkel's sefer. You'll look it up, he says, you see clearly Shulchan Aruch doesn't pasken that way. So you give me an eitzah against the Shulchan Aruch. You give me Rashi's shitah against—

I'll tell you what the Shulchan Aruch himself paskens. So the truth is, I don't know. So bad? It's so bad? My second chiddush is, I don't agree with him. I don't agree with him that if you learn derech re'iyah, you're not makpid shvay peres and chatzitzah. Both. I asked you in the Rambam. Remember I asked you this in the Rambam? So why is the Rambam toch, and he talks about derech re'iyah? That's why I hold of Shulchan Aruch. You get? Okay? Now, I just want to stress this nekudah also. I mean, I said it, but what is the ta'ina that they have? I said it, the meheicha teisa that it's not going to drip out on the side? I mean, so do it into the rechem. You're right. It doesn't have to be till the rechem; it could be into the rechem. Once it's into the rechem, I don't care the whole... Okay, now, the Rambam. The Rambam writes, b'soichah, and he paskens derech re'iyah. I'm trying to ... chiddush. Derech re'iyah and chatzitzah is the same thing. It's all the same chiddush. It's all the same yesod. Once there's a chatzitzah, then it's not called a derech re'iyah. The Rambam's not cholek on chatzitzah, because otherwise he wouldn't need b'soichah. All he needs is al yadei, and it could have been a kissui. What do you have to do about a shvay peres? He says I'm gargishmak. Avada we pasken that it has to do with shaloi k'derech, but it's pshat in shaloi k'derech not that because I took it out. It's shaloi k'derech because it's a chatzitza. So it's shayach to pasken chatzitza, and it's shayach if I put it in a tube, it's a chatzitza, and it would be good even according to who? The shita of the Shulchan Aruch and the Rama. You like it? What about everyone else? It's good, no? Chatz. Said he's saying a real psak halacha. It's a real psak. I hold it's emes, emes la'amito. You hear? And it comes to our ... Huh? They're following the Shulchan Aruch and the Rama with the assumption that you can't learn Rashi in the ... Who said? Did you see the Rambam did? And he's quoting the Rambam. Lachein. Which way? Their way of learning it? It's such a big chiddush. You want to know that it's not a— can I tell you that it's not a big chiddush? Because that's what the Rambam says. It's not even a chiddush. I hold it's not a chiddush. It's called learning the sugya. I hold that they didn't follow through the steps. This comes from not following through A, B, C, D, E. They're missing a step over here. The Rambam says clearly. You learned the Rambam. The Rambam says that to in. So don't come and tell me the Shulchan Aruch Harav. They're sticking it into the Shulchan Aruch. Where does Shulchan Aruch get this from? And he doesn't say that to be in. And that makes it not the derech. The chatzitza shebo makes not the derech. Wow. I know he's going to— I knew that this guy is ... You know something? It's real. What am I saying? I'm telling you the truth. I'm telling you, instead of just— they didn't take the Shulchan Aruch and bring it back to the mekor. Where does the Shulchan Aruch get this from? Get it from the Rambam. The Rambam says clearly like Rashi. What are you hocking me a chainik? He doesn't hold of Rashi. What are you hocking? I'm hocking a chainik. I looked at it, I was going... Okay, now, where are you going? You just started. I paged you. Where are you running away? What's Mincha? Forget about Mincha. Mincha tomorrow. Come on, let's learn, no? He doesn't like when I say that. He doesn't understand. I don't mean anything. I just want you to have a Torah. No, but I want you to be fired up, ahavas haTorah. I want you to have ahavas haTorah, b'ahavaso yishke tamid. Okay, now, now listen good. Good, good, good. Now, choyr, I want to say, choyrtes comes out, me'ein dege yesod. You hear? Sh'loi k'derech is not in the ma'aseh. I don't mean you got to take a stick and take it out. Sh'loi k'derech is in the hiluch, in the nidus, how it comes out. Sh'loi k'derech is not about how it came out, meaning how the ma'aseh, how it was goyrem it, but the sh'loi k'derech is in its course, the route.

En route. The en route has to be k'derech. En route, E-N, E-N-R-O-U-T. That was b'talich shela. Okay. One time I'm already... According to the Rambam, you want to listen? It's shayach that if I took a stick and I forced it out, what would be the halacha? It would still be asur, because it went en route the body. I don't care why it came out. That's not called shelo k'derech, according to the Rambam. Lefi zeh, one time I'm already... Go to a doctor. Go to a doctor, so everybody's worried about what? Everybody's worried about the procedures. According to the Rambam, which is the way we're learning up the Shulchan Aruch, if they stick like a thick syringe — I'll say the word thick because we assume, see how big is the IV — but let's say they... and it came out, you listening to me? It came out out because of the syringe, on the side of the syringe, it would be no good, and that's called k'derech re'iyah. If it came out in a tube, let's say they take and they... not a thing, they're extracting fluids, blood, it's going to be okay. I'm not choshesh. I have no chashash. The fact is I'm not worried. Only shaveh al leiv is choshesh, because he's not a medical... The doctor is a briefest. I'm not, I'm not. The doctor is stuck of needling. There's no reason for it to come out on the side. There's no reason. Let's say the side. Maybe he didn't go deep inside. Maybe. The point that— Then ask him. Just let's get the case. Forget about the exact scenario. If it came out on the side of the syringe, and I'll tell you why I'm saying this. According to the Rav Shulchan Aruch, you're rushing me, but I really, my heart is killing me to tell you this. Let's say he does an exam with his finger, and she's already in the later month, meaning she's dilated. You know, when he takes out the thing, it's full of blood. His finger is going to be full of blood. So according to the Rav Shulchan Aruch, that could be shelo kederech, because you forced it out. It came out not through the flow; it came out on the guy's finger. Masha'enken, according to the Rav Shulchan Aruch, according to the way we're learning the Rambam, no, shalem. The blood came out, didn't go through something. This is page seven. I have twelve, thirteen pages. Can we finish half the Mincha maybe? No? After Mincha? Okay, okay, okay. Whoever's here after Mincha.