Hilchos Niddah: Tumas Leidah, Dam Tohar, and the Force of Minhag

Transcript

Rabosai, if you want, maybe I could just tell you one vort I said yesterday. No, no, I’ll tell you one vort that I said yesterday. Tell me if you like. I said a sevart by a sheva brachos. It’s a beautiful vort. I said like this: Naaseh adam b’tzalmeinu. I’m saying, lo tov... excuse me, lo tov heyos adam levado; e’ezer kenegdo. So I saw the Rishonim bahandel. Rishonim ask, it’s all wife is about help. Put it in the newspaper, you’re looking for help. Oh, you gevaldik, I need a tremendous ezer kenegdo. That’s all that a wife stands for, is the ezer kenegdo. What about peru urevu? You need a wife to have children. Okay, so that’s what you say. Ramban doesn’t say this teretz. Ramban says—he asks the kasha of Ramban. I mean, he doesn’t speak out the question, but you see from his answer that he’s bothered by this question. What about having children? If someone tells you what’s the eikev of getting married, you would say to have children. That’s not what it says in the pasuk, though. The pasuk, it says ezer. So Ramban says, and hachanami, ezer doesn’t mean help; it means children. You can’t have children without a wife, so ezer kenegdo is l’hoolid, and that’s the ikar of the chashivus, is to be moolid. The Seforno learns ezer... It's physical eizer and spiritual eizer. He says that the person can't come to shleimus unless he has a wife that will help him in everything, you know, ruchniyus and gashmiyus, you know. Here, if his wife's not going to cook for him and clean for him and do his laundry, he'll be a bag man. A man needs a wife, especially the taiches, he works, the man is busy, right? So if there's not going to be anybody to take care of him. So I had a kasha. According to the Rishonim that learn eizer means ruchniyus, yeah, why taka doesn't it say piru u'rivu? It's taka a kasha. It's only about ruchniyus; it's not about having children. Why taka is the eizer kenegdo the ikar? So I said, first of all, I saw from the Brisker Rav, very interesting Brisker Rav. Brisker Rav learns that the nasa lo eizer kenegdo is not going on every adam. It's not every person; his wife is eizer kenegdo. It's going on Adam HaRishon. Adam HaRishon, the Ribono Shel Olam created an eizer kenegdo, pshat. Says the Brisker Rav, it doesn't say nasa lo tov heyos adam levado, ha'adam. Whenever it says ha'adam, it always means the special. So he quotes the Rambam in Hakdamah to Peirush HaMishnayos, that the ikar of the world is for the talmidei chachamim. And why did Hashem create the rest of the world? So he says two things: one is to help him, and the other one is to have a chaver, he should have who to talk to. Otherwise he'd go crazy. You know, I told you over many times, it's an hakdamah of my grandfather's sefer, Reb Chaim Kanievsky brings it down, that one of the things of the kinyanei haTorah is miut sichah. And everybody learns, miut sicha means lema'et b'sicha, mi'ut sicha, echad mi'kinyanei haTorah. אבל סבא שלי מביא מהגר״א, miut sicha chiyuvi, אתה חייב miut sicha. Because if not, the person will go crazy, and you need to talk to people. A person can't be a hermit, okay? So the Rambam is really saying this, that the ha'adam needs chaverus, he needs company, and he needs help. He needs people to help him, otherwise he's lost. Who's going to make his copies for him, and who's going to take care of his glasses when they break? You need people to take care of him. קיצור, זאָגט דער בריסקער רב, that's pshat: נעשה לו עזר כנגדו. So I'm going to make him an eizer, which means ha'adam. The ha'adam is going to have who to help him in his— so it's not every adam. So I said, a ma'aseh comes out that not everybody is zoche to eizer kenegdo. Everybody thinks, ah, my wife is supposed to be my eizer kenegdo. If you're ha'adam, then the bracha is that you have an eizer kenegdo. Lefi kama you're a talmid chacham and you're yarei Shamayim and you do avodas Hashem, that's— otherwise, who says you deserve an eizer kenegdo? Where does it say? Well, you need a helper. That's good. So they had special— Hashem gave them a special matzav.

Because there wasn't ezer kenegdo. That's a special matzav. But the yesod of ezer kenegdo is not husband and wife. L'choira it's talmid chacham, and then I'm saying oved Hashem and Shabbos. It's a small chiddush, no? And I told the chassan, l'fi how much yir'ah adam, azoi fil you'll have ezer kenegdo. Okay. Then I said, l'choira, if you learn that the ezer kenegdo is ruchniyus, you have to say a vort that the mechaven of the shidduch has to be ruchniyus, and not children and home and chves and cooking. Forget it. Ezer kenegdo is the yesod, and meileh everything falls into place. I said over, I told my grandfather, gevaldige vort: Mi ban siyach, shoishan choch. Ahavas chason, huh? Hu yevarech es hachassan v'es hakallah. What does it mean, mi ban siyach? What does it mean? It's what you say under every chasan, Sefardic, Ashkenazic, there's no Yiddish. Mi ban siyach. You don't understand. Shoishan choch. You say it. You don't have mi ban siyach, whatever, every chassan you say mi ban siyach. Okay. What does ban siyach mean? So my zeide brings down from the first, the siddur, ban is bina. Ban means he understands. Siyach means the talk. Shoishan chochim is Klal Yisrael, who shoishana bein hachochim. So the one who understands, mi ban, the one who understands siyach, shoishan, hu yevarech es hachassan v'es hakallah. What do you need the ban siyach? He said like this: You know, chassan kallah get married, right? What do they have? A house, and then they talk about mortgage and rent, and then who pays for the chassan, and then the music, and the first Kollel check, and the diapers. There's so much. Sichas chulin about it, right? Aval l'maaseh, it's all revolved around the she'ifos that they have for ruchniyus, and the home, and kedushah, and learning Torah. So the bun sich means the one the Ribono Shel Olam understands deeply, the sich of shoshan chochim. Avada Klal Yisrael talks about the dvarim chol, but you see in the way they talk about the dvarim chol, the tachlis, the tafkid is actually dvarim ruchniyim. So mimeila the Ribono Shel Olam really knows what they want. Hu yevarech es hachasan v'es hakallah. You know, you talk a chasan v'kallah, what do they talk about? They talk about dvarim chol. So what do they want? A bracha that the chasan's gonna get a house, a shidduch, a nice chasan, a nice photographer. The bun sich, Hu yevarech es hachasan v'es hakallah, they should get what their really their she'ifos are. I said the yesod of the bayis is the she'ifos that you put into ruchniyus, and everything else falls into place. Okay, now let's do Kuf Tzadik Daled. Yoledes, afilu lo ra'asa dam, temeiah kenidah. She's temeiah kenidah. V'yoled chai, v'yoled meis. Now the tumas leidah has anything to do with the dam leidah? No. So what's the Shulchan Aruch that it's temeiah kenidah? She's temeiah, there's tumas leidah. Mashal, I don't know, you know, mashal is temeiah kenidah, maybe it has all the dinim of nidah. I wasn't sure what the Shulchan Aruch wants exactly. Chayresh is temeiah. There's tumas leidah, tumas leidah. It's funny because be'etzem in the Torah it's the opposite, that she's bichlal not a nidah. Ha? Dam tahor. Yeah, but the dam that she originally had, that's called dam nidah; maybe it's called dam leidah. Dam leidah. Again, but is the term dam nidah? Because we see she's still bleeding into the eighth day and she's tahor now. No, I'm just asking. I'm just trying to say something. You know what it is? I'm learning with you. You want to have hakdamah, I want to give you hakdamah. I have something going through my mind, okay? I want to know, lemaaseh, does the yoledes have anything to do with the dam of the yoledes? Very nice sevara. In other words, it could be leidah has nothing to do with the dam. Leidah has to do with the leidah. The truth is, I gave a shiur on this yesterday, I don't know if you remember, and that's why—it was Sunday—I'm saying we spoke about what the tumas leidah is, something to do with the child leaving HaKadosh Baruch Hu. Be'etzem has nothing to do with the dam, lichoirah, right? So what I'm trying to say is, the same dam, if it continues to bleed...

It's called dam tohar. No, is the dam that came out b'shaas the leida is the same dam that comes a day later and it's called dam tohar, tohar, right? Unless you say no. Unless you say a gevaldige chiddush, that the dam that comes b'shaas the leida, that is taka dam leida tameiah, and the dam that comes after is dam tohar. I want to know if dam tohar started, if dam tohar starts b'shaas the leida. You mayin into this she'eilah? The Gemara says it's mayin echad, but my she'eilah is l'gabei the tumah. I know it's mayin echad, that I know it's called mayin echad. No, my she'eilah is, could be that same dam from mayin echad is tamei b'shaas leida and is tahor after leida. Well, the pshat is it has nothing to do with the dam. Maybe the tumah has nothing to do with the dam, it has to do with the leida. You understood that, right? That's what I'm clarifying. I'm saying, l'choira it's an interesting chiddush. Even if she gave birth without—trying to say like this: lu yetzuir shehad dam b'shaas leida, that dam is dam tohar, as well as the dam that comes later is dam tohar, and the tumah has nothing to do with that dam. Forget about halacha. I want to know, in other words, l'maaseh, lu yetzuir shehad a leida that no shaychus to dam. She had a Caesarean section and there's no dam whatsoever, okay? She is tamei. Who said? Who said? I'm not talking yotzei dofen. You see, I'm putting out the dam. I understand the yotzei dofen as a special halacha. But I'm talking about in Hilchos dam leida, in Hilchos dam leida. If lu yetzur, you were able to have a leida without dam at all, she would still be tamei. There's a special pטur of yoledes. That's something else. Leida, okay? It's dinim in leida. So yeledes afilu lo rasa dam, tameiah. So afilu lo rasa dam, tameiah is not a din that lo rasa dam, we're choshesh for the dam. Afilu lo rasa dam means even if there is no dam. Yeah, you maskim? Okay. So yeledes afilu lo rasa dam, tameiah k'nidah. So what? So what? I know you're maskim. So the shailah is, then what do you want, k'nidah? It's just a mashal, I guess. I'm saying, or the dinim are like nidah. What's the reason? Leida, the Torah said. There's a pasuk. I spoke about it, the Chikukei Chukimyanim, I don't know, whatever. There's a tumas leida, I don't know. Sunday we have to have a pshat why there's tumas leida. Tuesday you don't need a pshat why there's a tumas leida. But what I'm trying to say is, once we take out dam, and when it says afilu lo rasa dam means not that she didn't see. She didn't see. It didn't happen. There was no blood, and still she is tameiah. So the mashal to nidah needs a little bit of a hesber, unless you say nidah means the same, chumras the same. I don't—it's interesting. Okay. Now, bein yaldah chai, bein yaldah meis. What's the chiddush? The chiddush is, you would say that has something to do with the baby. Kamashmalan that it has nothing to do with the baby. It has to do with leida, the ma'aseh leida. Ben yalda chai, ben yalda meis, so there's no baby. So it's not about babies, it's about maaseh leida. It's not like we spoke Sunday, right? Sunday we said that has something more to do with the leida, the child, the Eibishter creating children, okay, whatever. But that's what it says: ben yalda chai, ben yalda meis, afilu nefel, and even a nefel. So what's the chiddush of afilu nefel? It says, ben yalda chai, ben yalda meis. Also, what is called nefel? What's a nefel? Now, the emes is, nefel usually is within thirty days. Kol zman, thirty days didn't live is called a nefel. Legabei aveilus, a nefel is thirty days. You don't sit shiva on a nefel if it died within thirty days, and it didn't live for thirty days, it's called a nefel. So what's the afilu nefel over here? I'm not interested in what you learned right now. Right now I'm interested in what I learned. Nefel is created by one hundred and forty days, forty days. On forty-first day she gives birth to the nefel, not after nine months of pregnancy. Miscarriage. I understand that, but I'm not— I didn't explain. I'm just saying, normally a nefel, when we talk about nefel, a nefel could be even if it's...

No, I'm not talking about this case. I'm talking in general. Every nefel could be 30 days. It's also called up to 30 days. I understand that. I'm saying, I'm saying the vafilu, when you talk about vafilu, it has to be less than Yom Dechai. So what would be if it's more than Yom Dechai? I want to know l'maaseh the other way around. Let's say she was nolda, let's say it was born, right, and it lived for two weeks. And it lived for two weeks. So what's the halacha? Yoledes afilu lo rasa dam, temeiah kenidah meyaldah chai, veyaldah meis, afilu nefel, right? Vekamah hein yemei tumahah? And how much are the days of tumah? So once again, why am I asking this? Because I saw the Shach learns that there's no issur of dam tohar on a nefel. In other words, when we come later and we're going to learn that we have to be machmir, there's a minhag to be machmir on dam tohar, right? The minhag is to be machmir on dam tohar, not by a nefel. Here, Shach, let's see the Shach inside. Yeah. It says like this. Here it is. Lahamtin shemoneh nekevah, right? The kesav oid, taam shemachmirin ... bahag. He said, where's the Shach? Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh. Where did I see it? Maybe, one second, daled. Le'oso tefila, that one? Ela tzrich zayin nekiim achar daled yom. Right, mapeles, that's what I wanted. That's what I saw. Okay, see, I saw it. Mapeles, leka man d'machmir latzricha peh alef yom. Wait a minute. V'sagi lah b'zayin nekiim achar daled yom. Now, what's this mapeles? This mapeles is a mapeles from before a mapeles of thirty days. That's what I'm clarifying. In other words, when we talk about a vafilu nefel, it's mashma which nefel? Nefel of earlier, right? But what happens if it was a nefel of thirty days? So that could be a different type of nefel. What's the difference l'maaseh? Because he says you're meikel on a mapeles. You don't need peh alef yom; v'sagi b'zayin nekiim. But maybe if the baby's born, so גרע. But if he's called a nefel... But it's not a din in the nefel. It's a din in the child that's born. It's not about a nefel. In halacha, if we give him status... What? Right. Continue. So she'eilos va'afilu nefel. So nefel has to be before nolad meis. There's a nolad meis, and this is va'afilu nefel earlier. Now, v'kamah heim yemei tumahso. So there's an achshav. Achshav, bizman hazeh, kol hayeledes chashuvos yoledes b'zov, v'tzrichos lispor shivah nekiyim, nimtzeis omer sheyeledes zachar yosheves zayin l'leidah, v'zayin nekiyim l'zivah. V'hayoledes nekeivah yosheves shvuayim l'leidah, v'zayin nekiyim l'zivah. Okay. So yemei leidah sheheim zayin l'zachar v'yad l'nekeivah, im lo ra'asa bahem, עולה לה לספירת זיבתה. ... zayin nekiyim b'soch yud daled nekeivah, harei זו אסורה. ... אבל תשב. ... הגה: ולאחר ז' לזכר וי"ד לנקבה מותרת לבעלה מיד, ... ולא חזרה וראתה. ... ויש מקומות שנהגו שאין טובלין תוך מ"ם לזכר ושמונים לנקבה. That they keep—

The dam toyar, the shevaim, the tumah, they don't matir it. Okay. So whose this? This is the Beis Yosef, huh? Beis Yosef b'shem haRi. Sheheivi haTa... Now, but sefardim, the machmir in this Beis Yosef? Nobody. You never saw anybody be machmir, okay? The Rambam's against it. The Rambam says, whoever, it's a minag tzedukim, minag tzedukim, the Rambam says. Minag tzedukim. V'ein l'hatir b'makom shenahagu l'hachmir. Now what is this Rambam, v'ein l'hatir b'makom shenahagu l'hachmir? Does he mean to pasken? Does he mean to keep it? Well, what does he mean, v'ein l'hatir? Don't be mezalzel minhagim? What about the yachid? What happens if the yachid does? It's a shaylah of psak or it's a shaylah of keeping it? V'ein l'hatir could mean as it is a minhag, in a makom to be machmir, you don't be matir. What? They used to do this in Russia? Really? Not to live with the wife for forty days and for eighty days. They had the minhag to have forty and eighty. Now I know they mevatel the minhag, but the shaylah is like this: so what's the v'ein l'hatir? V'ein l'hatir could mean that you can't pasken. Or the v'ein l'hatir means the yachid. If he doesn't— I wasn't sure what this v'ein l'hatir is. They keep the forty and eighty. They keep the forty and eighty, okay. The makom, the makom shenahagu, this is a pasken, don't pasken over there. No, I don't know what it means. Either it means don't pasken, or it means you have to keep it. What again? Ein lehakel can mean that you... What's b'makom shnahagu lehachmir? The place... You do it. I know it's not clear in the Rama. Okay. Aval b'makom she'ein minhag, here it's mashma ein lehachmir klal. So it's mashma from the Rama that it's about being machmir. Could be, could be, right? That's shayla how to learn this Rama. Aval b'makom she'ein minhag, ein lehachmir klal, miyad she'rasa dam hachazakah lizkori dam lakeves, v'zeh nikra muteres lbaalah. Aval im chazar v'rasa afilu tipas dam kechardal, temeiah. Aval gam d'raisa dam tahor hu, v'af pi kein, haminhag lchaysh she'ein bo'elim al dam tahor, v'dina k'shaar dam lchol davar. Now what's the lashon, ein bo'elim al dam tahor, v'dina k'shaar dam lchol davar? So what does he mean? That the dam is the same? The dam is the same, and ein bo'elim al dam tahor. So I asked this. This was the shayla I wanted to know. What happens if it's ksamim? What happens if there's ksamim? Because we say, oh, it's anyway there's zman of dam tahor. So I told you over with the Roshai, what happened? The Roshai came and said, Asur. Dam tahor? Never heard of it. And others say not. So he showed me before from the Amudei Tzedek. He showed me from the Amudei Tzedek: ... dam tahor ... ksamim ... Now, shedik marama ldam tahor yesh kol hachumros, ... v'ikar taam d'eina doimos lseferes haleshen, doma lyon hamsuchah. Right? So you have to be machmir on the dam, on the dam tahor. You have to be machmir on the dam tahor. You have to be machmir on the dam tahor. Hakol bksamim. Hakol bksamim. Now the truth is, I don't know if it's the same mashal. It's what? No, you put what? Yeah, gimel rishonim, shloshim nekiim, and also you want it ... the ksam melo. But what happens if you have a safek, if you have a ksam? You have other sfeikos. You're not meikel on the ksamim. Yeah, the sniff. What happens then? I mean, l'maaseh, the lashon of the Shulchan Aruch is, v'dina k'shaar dam, l'chol davar. It has a din l'chol davar. The lashon of Rema is very strong. But maybe the pshat is, you could still be meikel for the dam tahor. You could still be meikel for the dam tahor. Haminhag b'chol... So now, does a minhag have the same chomer as a d'rabbanan? Does a minhag have the same chomer as a d'rabbanan? What chomer does it have? V'haminhag she'ein boilin al dam tahor. They're not bo'el al dam tahor. The din k'shaar dam l'chol davar. V'far pashut haminhag. I mean, so what is the minhag? It's a minhag of what? Huh?

Cheirem hagoynim, he says? Oh, he does say it's parah bzeira's chumra. That's what I was clear. I wasn't sure how. The what? Oh, that's what I wanted to get to. He says it's parah bzeira's chumra? ... But it's Reb Zeira? Again, start again. No, in other words, like it's Reb Zeira or it's—what does it say? He says that it's not. Read it for me. That's what I wanted. Who said this? Who's lashon? He—I told you. This is gevaldik. I wasn't sure if it's bichlal the takanah of Reb Zeira. What would be the nafka mina? Nafka mina would be like this. First of all, do you have to be machmir on tipas dam kechardal bdam tahor? You have to be machmir? It doesn't say. All it says is, kvar pasha minhag she'ein bo'in ldam tahor. Right? V'dinoi lchol davar. No, I'm saying it's dam kechardal. No, but maybe you don't do machmir on dam kechardal. This, that Bnei Yisrael ... al atzman, al dam kechardal. Yeah, maybe it's a chumra on a chumra. I want—this is my safek. Who is he quoting? Does he say who he's quoting? I think it could be the Rambam, because then he continues, VehaRambam, leachar shehevi divreihem, katav: 'Vezeh leshono,' veshamanu shebetzarfat... It's the Rambam. That's where I saw it somewhere. Go get the Rambam. No, even if you hold that it is chumras, even if you hold that there is such a minhag, right, even if you hold there is such a minhag, it's not bichlal takanas Rabbeinu. See, I wasn't sure what's the minhag. What's the chomer of the minhag? What's the nafka mina? I mean, lemaaseh, with dam tohar, you make a bracha. You would make a bracha on the tevilah, right? So if the din is that it's just ein bo'elim al dam tahor—the lashon is a very interesting lashon, ein bo'elim al dam tahor—what? Oh, so that's my she'eilah. Could you make a bracha on a minhag shechmiru al atzman, and that there's a din tevilah because of that minhag? What is the minhag? Is the minhag that it's ein bo'elim, or is the minhag to give her a din nidah? Which one is it? That's what I was clarifying, and that's what I wanted to go into this shiur. Could you read the lashon of the Rambam? Go ahead, read it. It's a few halachos together. Read that Reb Zeira. Read where he talks... ודין ימי בין ימי הגאונים נתחדש, והם גזרו שלא יהיה שם דם טוהר, שם דם טוהר כלל, שזה שהחמירו בנות ישראל על עצמן בימי חכמי התלמוד, אינו אלא בראיית דם שהוא טמא, שיושבת עליו שבעת ימי נקיים. אבל דם שתראה בימי טוהר אחר ספירה וטבילה, אין לחוש לו, שאין ימי טוהר ראויים לא לנידה ולא לזיבה, כמו שביארנו. That's just not chumras of zeh, then. ... בצרפת בועלים על דם תואר כדין התלמוד, עד היום, אחר ספירה ותפילה מטומאת יולדת, בזוב ודבר זה תלוי במנהג. So this is clearly minhag. The Ramban says it's not a minhag. The Ramban says not a minhag, right? Huh? Ravadi says that you don't say a bracha. That's the machlokes. I was clarifying what it—I'll say you make a bracha on a minhag. Depends what you call the minhag. If the minhag is that we gave, she's a nida, so her tefillah becomes tefillah. But if we said that the dam tohar is ein boilin al dam tohar, so it's a din in the dam. And a din in the dam is not mechayev that later, if she has the dam tohar, that she has to make a bracha on the tefillah. That's what I want. That was my hakdamah I wanted to tell you. That's the hakdamah. Okay, so, mitzvas Hashem Thursday, all right? So you guys are ready for Thursday. This is what I want to do Thursday. I want to know if it's a minhag or it's a din. If it's chumras ... Ramban.