Hilchos Tevilah: Showering After the Mikveh—Minhag, Timing, and Practical Distinctions

Transcript

We discussed today if you're allowed to take a shower after the mikvah. After going to the mikvah, are you allowed to take a shower? Now we'll discuss different details. We'll discuss men, ladies. We'll discuss what means after a shower, because you see there's many questions. First thing is, are you allowed? Gam ze lo kach. יש אומרים אסור, ויש אומרים שזה מותר. Some say mutar, some say asur. So there's a chiluk maybe between men and women. When? How long after? How long after is there a chiluk between a shower and a bath? Today's shiur will be revolved around this shaylah. So let's begin. The Rishonim, as early as Rashi, the Mordechai, the Rokeach, many Rishonim bring down that there's a minhag, a minhag not to go to the shower — I don't say the word shower, but to bathe yourself, not to bathe yourself after you go to the mikvah. Where is this brought down? So the Rishonim actually bring it down by tevul yom, by men. The Rama in Shulchan Aruch brings it down. as well by the woman who goes to the mikveh. The fact that the Rama brings down this minhag is a shaylah. Maybe it's only for Rama. Maybe it's only for Ashkenazim. Maybe Sefardim do not listen to this because they didn't follow the piskei ha-Rama. So let's begin by telling you, first of all, that even in the Rama itself, there's many who argue directly on the Rama. For example, the Gra is meikel, and he says that there's no reason to be machmir like this shitas Das Yachid. It's cool. Das Yachid. Who says we have to be choshesh for this das yachid? What? One shita that says—and don't forget, what is that shita? That shita is that's only a minhag; it's not even a real shita. What is the minhag? So the Shach explains in se'if katan kuf nun aleph that the yesod of this minhag is shelo yomru, that people shouldn't say that, Ah, I went to the bath. That itself is the ta'ir. I went to the mikveh, and then I went to a bath. Ah, you see, you go to the bath, you can become tahor. Shelo la'asot michshol, shehanashim yachshvu shehamikveh gam habath oto davar. They ya'avru al issur d'Oraisa shel karet, shel nidah. Therefore, no bath afterwards. So be'emes that's not halacha; that's a gezeirah. Who made up this gezeirah? Who says this? The Shach explains it, but it's earlier. I'm just bringing down the halacha l'maaseh. Mevu'ar kacha b'chol haRishonim. So you say the Rabbanan, huh? Gemara says it. It's in ... It's in Gemara Shabbos. Let's say a man wants to become tahor, and he's a baal keri, and he's a tevul yom. So there's a takanah that he's not supposed to ... he goes to the mikveh. There's a takanah not to go to the mikveh. Forget about this season; I'm talking about those seasons. The takanah comes from when there was a baal keri, when it was real. Habaal keri, those seasons, yesh takanah shelo yikanes l'merchatz achar ... asafeku im ze nogea gam l'yameinu b'nashim. So be'etzem it's only a minhag. It's a minhag. Nahagu b'nos Yisrael. It's a minhag. And the minhag says, the Shach, is only shelo yavo lidei kishalon. And on top of that, it's only a das yachid that you have to be machmir on it. So it comes out it's a das yachid about a minhag, not a din. So how serious do you take that? L'chatchila, b'di'eved. Let's say she did take a shower. Is it possible to shower? How serious do we take that?

It's a halacha. So the Gra, on that halacha in Yoreh Deah, the Taz says we don't pasken like this Rambam. It's not, it's a das yachid; you don't have to worry about it. I'm saying, are you a chiddush? Are you a chiddush? The Gra could be, could be, is even talking l'chatchila. It's very shayach that the Gra is paskening that even l'chatchila, you're allowed to go take a shower after this. יש שרוצים לפטל בגרא שלא יתכוון לכתחילה, ורק מתכוון בדיעבד, בעשיית שבת חת, באיסטניס, לכתחילה. למה שלא יחמירו במנהג לכתחילה? What, the Gaon is saying don't follow minhagim? It's not so clear. It's not so clear how to learn up this Gra. But it's one thing is definitely clear. He's saying the Rama is not so—don't take it that lightly. The Rama said it. It's only a das yachid, and I'm not going to explain it to you. It's a das yachid on a minhag. I mean, he doesn't bring it at all, because that's why. I'm going to tell you why in two seconds. Because it's only a Rama. And if you look at the Birkei Yosef, the Chida, siman reish aleph, se'if ayin hei, in Kuntrus Acharon, he says, Yecholim lakel בזה, אז מה זה הרמ״א? יכולים להקל. What do you mean? You know, siman reish aleph, se'if ayin hei. He brings it. Okay, so read me what he brings. Let's see what he says here. Okay, let me see how he dances around, dances around the halacha. איך הוא רוקד בין החורים פה. You know, יש הגר״א בביאור יוסף, לכתחילה בדיעבד, אישה... Let's see how he dances around. אחר התפילה יש עוסרים לאישה לשטוף עצמה במקלחת כל עוד היא נמצאת במקווה, אבל בביתה מותר. Ayin Shabbat, yud-daled, gittin tet-zayin, Rashi שם. You're saying who said gittin? Who said Shabbat? And who says—no, what does he say from the Gra, yeah? So he says, says the Gra, סוף סימן רמא, ועיין לגר״א שם, שבת, גיטין, בנישואין. Yeah, you know why? Because all these people are telling you. Now you jump, now you jump. First, you have to know. What does it say? Yesh—he just brings yesh. Yeah, because you know what it is? He doesn't want to get involved. He doesn't want to get involved in problems. להכריע בין הרים גדולים. Whether it be chelek on Rashi, whether it be chelek on the Rama, whether it be chelek on this shitah, that shitah, but at the same time he has a Gra. ומה יגידו בברכובות שהספרדי פסק כמו הגר״א? אבל יש הרבה... Okay, I can't help you. You see that that's what he's doing. You see that he doesn't want to be machria. Meaning, he wants to tell you that there's a shitah like that. He doesn't want to say more about it. Conveniently and smartly, he's trying to stay away from the machlokes, to be sure that Rav Ovadia is machria. You'll go find it. I'd like to see it. You'll find it. You'll find it. I'm sure Rav Ovadia... The whole minhag was on the bath. Why do we have to say another gezeirah on the shower? You just jump. Wait, wait. Be patient. Be patient. You'll get to get more yediah the whole year. Kitzur, so this is the machlokes haposkim if we follow this Rama or not. According to the Gra, we're not mechluyiv to be machmir according to this Rama. Shailah is, did he mean it l'chatchilah b'di'eved? So our poskim say that he even meant it l'chatchilah. Other poskim say it's not clear; he meant to say that it's not l'ikuvah, which means b'makom hatzorech you can be meikel according to the Gra that you don't have to be machmir on this Rama. Rav Moshe in the teshuvos, Yoreh Deah chelek beis siman tzadi gimmel, is very vehement. The Birkei Yosef—I just told you—he says that you can be meikel. You don't have to be machmir; it's a das yachid. You don't have to be machmir about... Kitzur, the Igros Moshe comes along and says there's no question about it: you're mechuyav to be machmir. Rama, Rashi, gedolei harishonim—he doesn't understand the Gra. So what? Who says you're going to learn up the Gra? Maybe the Gra just meant that yecholim l'hakel; it doesn't mean that you should be meikel. Therefore there's no reason not to be meikel. As a matter of fact, Rav Moshe even writes...

I don't even see why you should want to be meikel. That's the big deal. I don't understand why you should want to be meikel. Therefore it says, l'chaira, we're mechuyiv to be machmir like the shitas the Rama, even though the Gaon says that you're not mechuyiv to be machmir like the shitas the Rama. So this is the first nidon. The first nidon is: is there halacha bichlal like this, right? So the answer is, it originates by a baal keri, and the Rama brings it down by an isha. There's a machlokes haposkim: should we follow this Rama, halacha l'maaseh, or not? How long after should she not be taking the shower? How long after? A week? Two weeks? How many weeks should she be taking a shower? Okay, so it's very good. You're saying a tremendous logical diyuk, but let me tell you why it's not so clear. Rashi, in Shabbos, daf yud-gimmel amud beis, dibur hamaschil v'haba, says the word boi bayom, that day. The halacha is, that day you're not supposed to—the day that you went to the mikveh, that day, boi bayom—within that day you're not supposed to go and take a bath. What's called boi bayom? Boi bayom is that ona. Boi bayom means 24 hours. Now I just want to tell you that the Rambam brings this halacha by baal keri, and by baal keri he says clearly that you shouldn't go to the mikveh. There he doesn't use the word boi bayom; he says clearly till the next evening, because by herav shemesh she becomes tahor, so kol zman... Kol zman that the mikveh was that day, meaning that the taharah comes later b'erev, then the ba'erev, the halacha becomes that you can go and take a shower. It's mashma from here a 24-hour period, and that's a big machlokes haposkim. Did you mean 12 hours, or do you mean a whole entire day? Ramoisha says he doesn't see how and why we should learn Rashi differently than that. Boi bayom, 24 hours, especially it's learned from a baal keri. I'm going to read for you the Rambam, and we're going to show— No, no, come on. Let's see what. No, you have to understand. The question is, if the mikveh was that day, the mikveh was that day, it means, let's say the night before was the mikveh till the next day she shouldn't be showering, or it's till the next morning she shouldn't be showering. This is a machlokes in the Acharonim how to learn up the Rishonim. Rashi just used the word boi bayom. Does he mean boi bayom, that oina, like he wants to say? Tali oinos, right? Or boi bayom means it's a 24-hour period. The Rambam in Avos HaTumah, perek tes, halachah aleph, where he brings the halachah by a baal keri, says clearly it's till the next day, including the day. So meila says Ramoisha, till the next day. It's a very big chiddush. Nobody knows this teshuvah. People think, if you're machmir when you come back, Ramoisha held till the next night, 24 hours. Then he writes— Others have told me, how could you make a woman... He says, I don't see what the problem is. He doesn't see the whole sugya. Kanireh, in Europe they didn't shower so often, once a week. Kanireh, I mean, you see from Ramoish's, like, how youtachin. He looks at it, how youtachin you should want to be meikel on this halacha within 24 hours. What's the need for it? Right? I don't see the need. I don't see nashim be done. Why should they be able to...? Or else, Ramoish's halacha, takke was more the convenience of the shower, comfort of the shower. It's an interesting perspective into Ramoish's outlook. Ramoish's outlook doesn't see why you should be meikel the next morning, right? The whole day. Doesn't see why you shouldn't need a shower till the next morning. Why not? The Rambam, I just told you, speaks by a baal keri that it's 24 hours. It's that day. Okay. Now, everybody throws at me, yeah, when you come home, let me explain to you where and what where you come home comes from. Where is that? What is that? Okay. First, I have to magdim to you that Ramoish didn't speak about coming home. As a matter of fact, Ramoish spoke about 24 hours. Rav Yankiv in his sefer Emes L'Yaakov also mentions someone to say that when you come home...

What you're talking about, yeah, there's halacha, he doesn't understand why we just come home. But I heard from Rav Shlomo Zalman, I believe that they quote him, if I'm not mistaken, I remember years ago seeing in the sefarim quote him, that he's meikel that when you come home you can take the shower. But I heard the taam from him. He said, a mechuderdike taam. Rav Shlomo Zalman said like this: the emes, it's not a real halacha. Not a real halacha, pirush, not a real halacha. There's nothing really wrong if you go and shower after a mikvah. But it's a hekerdike halacha. It's about showing that there's a chiluk between the mikvah and the shower, that you shouldn't make a mistake thinking the shower is part of the mikvah. That's only if you're going to do it there, in the mikvah. But if you don't do it in the mikvah, you do it later at home, me'eicha teisa. Now I want to add two points, because I understood from Rav Shlomo Zalman that part of his cheshbon also was that it's not even a din, it's only a minhag to make a heker. So kol she'asisa heker, anything that you made a heker, you're mekayem the minhag actually. So if there's no shower in the mikvah, then there is no heker. If there's no attention, you see there's a lomdish halacha she'outlook in every psak. It isn't just pasken black and white, yeah, it's mutar, it's aser, me'eicha teisa, let's go be meikel. He went a step further. I remember hearing this nekudah in his words. Fakert, that is the kiyum of the minhag. The minhag was not not to take a shower. The minhag was to make a heker. And you did it. You like it. It's great. There's a reason why he was a gadol hador. There's a reason. There's a shower in the mikveh. Oh, so I want to backtrack a second. I like to start the other way around. I want to explain to you, I believe in the olden days there used to be bathhouses, okay? Mimeila, if a woman would go and take a mikveh, then a bath, so she went to the bath. I hear what she can be tohor. The mikveh to the showers in our house, you understand? So the heker shebo is much stronger, and the takanah is maybe shayach dafka in those days, more than what we have today. In those days it was a bathhouse. A lady went to a bathhouse, so she went to this mikveh and then she went to the bath, so she gets confused. Maybe this is a chelek of the... you understand? Are you yamim shehayu bathhouse? How about היום, halochinu mikveh v'holchin loshecha. Ela mai, chayavim מצד המנהג לעשות חילוק, heker. שלחתא הך. You have it. Beautiful vort, beautiful, beautiful vort. But, but, but, like I say, a lot of people didn't hold of it. The Chassidim didn't hold of it. They held that you can't take, even like the Rebbe said, 24 hours later, you still can't take. Now, I want to discuss two more points. Okay, I want to discuss two more points. I want to discuss two more points. Today, the level of istus is a lot different, and I want to talk about that. This is something which I talked to the poiskim about. It's something I'd like to make you aware of. I don't want to be machria anything because it's svaris, and halacha, it's not kedai to say svaris and just be machria. If you have a lomdishe chap in a halacha's month, svaris, mechalek between then and there, but I do want to point out something, because the truth is we point this out—not only we, meaning sitting here, we—but the poiskim do this. When it comes to the nine days, we're matir showers for many cheshbonos in the hot weather. The heter, one is what I just told you. The only is like a whole procedure to go take a bath. You went to a bathhouse. Today, you jump into a shower, and people take a shower in anything. Feel a little bit dirty, it's a little bit uncomfortable, a little this, you take a shower. Yeah? So the shower is not a davar chashuv l'atzmoi the way it was. It's not the same thing as I went, I took a bath, and now all of a sudden I'm taking another bath, and then we're not going to—

Confused between the mikvah and the bath. And I want to point out another thing. Why is a woman taking a bath? Why would she be doing it? And the answer is, what are the mikvahs dirty for? What are the mikvahs dirty for? So what's the takanah? What's the takanah originally, more than if you throw in, now you take a bath, which let's say in those days a bath was also tainug, right? It was a whole procedure. So then you can come and say that there's a makom. She's not sure, is it the bath, is it the shower, okay, or is the mikvah? But if it's to wash off the mikvah, she's not making an ikkar out of the washing, right? People today don't look at a shower as a shem davar. They look at it as a shower of something. It's not a ma'aseh for itself, that I did. I mean, you're allowed to take a shower before Mincha. No. Are you allowed to take a shower before Shacharis? You're not allowed to do anything before Shacharis. You're allowed to take a shower before Shacharis. And these type of she'eilos, honestly, I don't really care for because they're simple she'eilos. But the terutzim that the poskim, especially modern-day poskim, give echoes the vort as a beautiful mashal for what we're talking about. They answer, yes, you're allowed to because it's not a big thing, and today we take showers quickly. It's just to be clean for davening, la-da-da-da. What are they saying? You know what they're saying? It's not a serious thing, a shower. It's not a davar chashuv l'atzmoi. It's just a matter, the shower to take off something. Yeah, a shower to take off something. Who's gonna come and think that a shower today is ikar and then the mikveh is tafel? Who's gonna think of those terms? In the old days, a merchatz was a ma'aseh. It was a ma'aseh, a whole procedure involved. And that's why we're matir the nine days. That's one of the heterim they give, because today showers, it's hot, we're just cleaning ourselves off. Ay, you'll ask me, who gives me the right even to? Who gives me the right? Stam, I'm saying Torahs, sevaros. You know where I got this from, Reb Daniel? I have a tremendous tanya d'Masaya. Baal Kitzur Shulchan Aruch says a tremendous chiddush. He says that after a mikveh, a woman's allowed to go in. I want to show you another nekudah. Listen to me. Baal Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. Listen to the Baal Kitzur. A woman goes to mikveh. She wants to take a sauna bath, sauna bath. Not a bath with water, a sauna bath. Dry sauna and wet sauna. Heat. Heat. What do they call it in English? I don't know what it's called. When they go into the hot sauna. Steam, steam. Steam, and they have a dry one. Okay, all the pratim are not that important. Okay, you guys know too much about this. It's not scary, okay? The hasbanes. Okay, banyas. All right, banyas. Kitzur, you hear? What about if she's cold? She came from outside and she wants to put water on herself to heat herself. In those days, with heat, בלי. But hot water. You boiled up some hot water and you used it. Says the Baal Kitzur Shulchan Aruch, this was not part of the gezeirah, part of the takanah, and you're allowed to do it. They klarned the kids a Shulchan Aruch. Mamish, a klara didn't kids a Shulchan Aruch. Kuf samech beis, se'if tes. Unbelievable shtickel. So I'm taining, what is he saying? What is he trying to teach? He's trying to teach this yesod, the way I'm explaining it. Say, she's going to wash herself off. It's going to a bigish—bath, not even bath. So, according to this, I could hear a miklachat, a shower. According to this, maybe a bath, which is more of a serious thing. It's a whole thing, a bath. According to this, but this yesod is echoed in the words of the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. What, he's talking about bath, right? He's talking about—now the emes is, he's talking about from kar to cham, right? He's talking about you're cold, you want to become warm, you throw water on yourself. And he's also talking about heat, sauna, hot bath, meaning not to go into the water, but to—okay, something like. He says all this is not a problem because it's not a melachah; it's other cheshbonos involved. So today, when we have melachah, it's just to wash off the water of the mikveh, because the chlorine.

Whatever the heter is, whatever we call merchatz, it's no different than mikar lechayin. I'm using hot water not for merchatz, merchatz purposes, so to speak. In other words, not shem merchatz, for mataras merchatz. Let's use it that way, not for shem merchatz, for mataras merchatz. These things, there's a makom to be meikel. Okay. Now let me tell you a few more heterim. Another heter, which I heard from Rav David. Rav David tainis that that's only kohein. Kohen pasuls is halacha. After taharah, it's a different thing. Now, it's 24 hours to 24 hours. I'm talking even on the 24 hours. He's saying on the ... father. Rav David said, even if it's my father, the whole 24 hours, that's only four tashmish. After tashmish, she's 30 now, it's a whole different ... Same svara. They're all saying the same svara. I'm cleaning myself. Okay. I'm going to give you a thousand dollars if you look up the teshuva. What's the teshuva? Ah. You're going to look up that teshuva and you'll notice that Reb Moshe was talking about a case where the woman did not, did not have tashmish. You look at the story in the teshuva. That's the chiluk when you learn. When you learn, everybody quotes Reb Moshe, Reb Moshe. Ten years ago I asked Reb David. Reb David said this. I said, I understand the argument that's wrong. Go look up the teshuva. You look it up. This is your homework for today, Reb Moshe. You go look up the teshuva, Igros Moshe, Yoreh Deah, chelek beis, siman tzadi gimmel, and you'll notice. The case over there that R' Moshe is talking about is that the husband's coming home the next day. Notice, now we have another shaylah. Could you go to the mikveh in such a case? If the husband is not in town, should you be going into the mikveh? Now I want you to know there's a big tumul, sefer Chasidim, Zohar, ma'aseh, zachin. It's not for today. We'll talk about it another time. Sefer Chasidim wrote that. Chassidim shavelt, put a sefer on their pillow. It's mazik in ma'aseh. It's a big segulah. ... put a sefer on their pillow. Yeah, we'll talk about Zohar a different time. See, I say Zohar, everybody starts to look, everybody's looking, everybody's excited. Okay, we'll do the Zohar a different time. Al kol panim, if you look, R' Moshe's teshuvah is in that story. The story is that he didn't live with her husband. Now, what about a different heter? Let's be a real lamdan and say, the asid merchatz, yeah, the asid merchatz, this is not called merchatz. If you go and you pick at the merchatz and change it a little bit. What's a merchatz? ... she doesn't do the head. She only washes the body. Make sense? It's not all the merchatz in here. Darchei teshuvah brings down a ... v'achronim, that's eino chanami, she doesn't wash her head. That's not the problem, because she's not going to make a mistake and think it's a mikveh. You know what I would say? Let's go one step further. Let her put on a shower cap. And a shower cap is a chatzitza for a mikveh, now you finish with all problems. Let her wash her head also. That's what we... that any chatzitzah, any... no, lechora that's not chatzitzah. You're not going to get mixed up because you didn't do the whole ma'aseh. A dilma, we have to say we could be a lomdisher taking away the mechitzah. If you make it, we're taking away the mechitzah that it's a hefsek, right? What if I take it away that it doesn't look like a mechitzah, it doesn't have a shem mechitzah? A shower. Reb Elyashiv, very famous psak. Reb Elyashiv paskens a woman's allowed to take a shower אחרי... A bath you're not allowed. A shower you're allowed to take, because a bath is not called she'uvin. You notice people, they hold you're allowed to take a bath to be yotzei mikveh for baal keri. It's not she'uvin. So he's going to tell me that she'uvin, tes kabin. Reb Elyashiv said that the spout is not a keli, there's no she'uvin involved, and therefore there's no problem whatsoever to take a shower, and the issur is only a bath.

Bal kere, you're not going to be yotzei. Yeah. Yeah, but it's not a merchatz. A merchatz is a ... Okay, tzurah is different. The tzurah of the merchatz. Bal kere going to be yotzei in the shower? Yeah. We pasken yes, the ... So this becomes the nidon, rabosai, could be a shower is bichlal ... could be it's mutar when once you come home. It's definitely mutar, yeah, and it's definitely mutar if she puts a shower cap on. Technically is mutar. So rightfully so, the poskim know how to learn right. Yeish oysrim ... All right.