Hilchos Niddah: Bedikos for Hefsek Taharah and Shivah Nekiyim—The Eid, Chorim U’Tzedakim, and Depth

Transcript

Okay, there it goes. Okay, starting this year. Okay, next. Oyef anoichi. Do it also for yourself. You do for yourself. Okay, let's start. My papers. Okay. Keitzad. Kol bedikos eilu, bein bedikas hefsek. Hefsek tairo, bein bedikas kol hashivah. And the reason why the Mechaber has to say this, because there are poskim rishonim that are mechalek between bedikas hefsek tairo and bedikas shivah nekiyim. If it has to be bechorim uvesadakin. So if the Shulchan Aruch is going to conclude that there's a chiyuv bedikah bechorim uvesadakin, it's a chiddush that it's called bedikas eilu, bein bedikas hefsek tairo, bein bedikas kol hashivah, because this is machlokes and the Shulchan Aruch is paskening that there's no difference. That's why he begins, u'makdim, shehamedubar po lo chiluk, ein chiluk, lo mechulak bein bedikas hefsek tairo lebedikas kol hashivah. Okay, so this is kol bedikas eilu. And that's why he stresses bein bedikas hefsek tairo, bein bedikas kol hashivah. Tzrichos lihyos bebeged, pishton, lavan, yashan. So here he brings a few nekudos: beged, pishton, lavan, and yashan. Mashma if it's not a beged, it's not good, right? Beged is something which is woven. What about if it's a raw piece of pishton, a piece of flax? Not good. It has to be beged, pishton, and not a different type of beged. There's different types of beged. Plastic, I don't know, we have a raincoat. Could you use a plastic beged? There's different types of begadim. Synthetic begadim, cotton, that's semer gefen. That's the next case, semer gefen. You see, I'm showing you that if you medayek in the words, there's many, many, what do they call that? There's many chiyuvim. Not the words, not chiyuvim, I'm a little tired, I'm not getting the right word, huh? Criteria. There are many criteria. That is beged, pishtan, lavan, and yashan. It has to be old. So it's mashma beged and not pishtan, which wasn't nerag, because it's not a beged. It has to be lavan. What's called lavan? There's different types of lavan. I guess all shades of lavan. Maybe, let's say, a gray, like some things for ksamim is also not good. Some things would be okay for ksam, which means that it's not matzui. For example, a davar keהה, something which you can tell that it's what the dam is. For example, yellow, they say, like shades of yellow. Would that be good for bedikah?

It's clear, it says lavan. Is it the same halacha as like not kesem, right? Just like for a kesem, that's not called tzavua, something which you can see the dam, maybe for a bedikah also, that afkamina would be if, let's say, she has a T-shirt which is a color which is not white, but it's off-white, or it's yellow, which you could tell the dam, something which wouldn't be matzil for a kesem according to many poskim, could you use it? Yashan, it has to be old. So again, old doesn't mean old. Old could also mean, according to the poskim, it was put in the washing machine. It doesn't necessarily have to be old; it has to be used. It can't be brand new. Okay, this is all stuff that you would see when you learn the Acharonim and poskim and mefarshim on the sefer Shulchan Aruch. I want to get to the yesod of the halacha, and lefi zeh come out with interesting chiddushim. What's the reason that you need beged, pishton, lavan, and yashan? Where does it all come from? What's the reason for all this? What's wrong if it's not a beged? What's wrong if it's not pishton? What's wrong if it's not lavan? What's wrong if it's not yashan? What's wrong? What's the problem? So Rashi, daf yud zayin amud aleph, says that all of it is because if it's not all this, you can't see the white properly. I'm sorry, you can't see the red properly. You want it to be white, and that's white. A beged has to be nerag, pishton, lavan, and yashan in order for it to portray the dam. You'll get a clear picture of the dam. If not, lo yitfos et hatzeva hanechonah ve'amitit. This is shitas Rashi. Lech v'simla. Right? The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch brings many Rishonim, different reasons why. You know that? Okay. Many reasons why we have this halacha. So the first thing he brings from Rishonim, Acharonim, that it has to be soft. Soft. It's not so much that we want white, but it's more soft. So beged, pishtan, lavan, and yashan is about soft, okay? Why? Because if it's not soft, she can't make her bedikah. She's not going to do it. It's going to be very hard. Why? Because grad the lavan. So lavan is the only one that has nothing to do with soft. Lavan, of course, is appearance, but everything else has to do with soft. So again, according to Rashi, it's all about white that gives you the color. According to others, Lech v'simla brings different shitos, that it's all about what, rabosai? Soft. Pishtan, beged, soft. Yashan, it's soft; otherwise it's coarse, it's hard. And he brings from the Rashba that says that it's not so much that she can't make a bedikah; she's not going to want to make a bedikah. So she won't make a proper bedikah. It's not that it can't be used for a bedikah. She'll be afraid to make the bedikah with it. So therefore, we tell her that it has to be a beged rach, which is pishtan beged yashan. What's the machlokes between Rashi and the other Rishonim? Is it because we want lavan, we want the color, or is it because we want that it should be rach, that she should make a good bedikah? You know what I think, rabosai? You can say, mar amar hachi, mar amar chaluki. They're both discussing different pshatim. They're both right. The problem is not white, so it doesn't make a proper bedikah. Or if it's not soft, it won't make a proper bedikah. Or we could come and say that there is bedavka, shitas Rashi, and bedavka, and shitas Rashba and other Rishonim. There's a yesod. They're arguing what's the ikar of the bedikah. What's the ikar of the bedikah? So let me repeat again. You ready? Start again. We find criteria for the beged, the ed that's being used, and that is that it has to be beged. It can't just be a raw...

Material, it has to be a made material, nerag. Pishtan, lafuke other materials. Lavan, lafuke other tzvaim. Yashan, lafuke chadash, which is hard, l'choirah. So Rashi is going to learn that all this is because the white comes through on a beged pishtan, lavan, yashan. And white is how you can tell dam, detect the dam. The Lechem Mishneh brings from other Rishonim that it's more about bedikah. The bedikahs won't be right, won't be thorough, if it's not going to be a beged pishtan, lavan, yashan. So pashut, they're not really arguing. All they're saying is two different points. They're both true, isn't it? Both true? Or maybe no. It's actually zeh luma zeh, that they're arguing in the yesod of what the chiyuv bedikah is. Now, I see that Reb Rafael is looking over there. I don't mind. Does he say what I just said? Does he bring both shitos? Does he bring both de'os? Does he say that it's two shitos? Go ahead, read it. Read the two shitos, huh? Maybe he doesn't say. He says it. Aha, okay. Hevanta? Lo hevanta. Okay, lo higshavta. At least amarta emes. Okay. I want to say, listen carefully. I'm trying to tell you like this. With what do you make a bedikah? Yesh—what do we call that criterion? How would I say criterion in Hebrew? Yesh... huh? There's chilukim. Whatever. There's dinim that are what's kosher. It has to be a beged, it has to be pishtan, it has to be lavan, it has to be yashan. And the Chachamim poskim, they עושים חילוקים. What's called beged, what's called pishtan, what's called lavan, what's called yashan. Maybe beged doesn't have to be a beged. Maybe means that the ikar is it shouldn't be pishtan, that maybe lavan, it could be tzvaim which are kosher for ksamim, which means that it's not mamash lavan, but you could tell dam. Yashan, if it goes into the washing machine, so even if it's chadash, it's like yashan. All very good. But what's the yesod of this halacha? So Rashi learns the yesod of this halacha is white, and the Rashba learns the yesod of this halacha is rach. Rashi, lavan; Rashba, rach. Soft. That's according to Rashi it's white; according to the Rashba it's soft. Soft is either it'll be a good bedikah, or she won't be afraid to make a good bedikah. You found it? Okay, read it. Oh, so he brings both צדדים, right? Like I said, either because beged is neherag, and even if it's neherag, it still has to be not chadash, yeah? יש מפרשים כי מפני ישנים הם לבנים ודם ניכר יותר בהם, אבל חדשים, וכן פשתן קודם שנארג לבגד, הינם לבנים כל כך. הם לבנים. They're not white. ואין הדם ניכר בהם יפה. You can't tell good. It's not a good thing to detect, yeah? According to Rashi, it's white. According to the Rashba and other Rishonim, it's what? What's the machlokes? That's what we're saying. That's the point. It's white. It's not color. How we know color? Dark color, not black, but not white. But that's not the point. The point is you don't need that it should be chadash yashan. But the chadash yashan has nothing to do with white. That's what he's trying to say. Akpada here of chadash yashan has nothing to do with white. We're not talking about lavan. We're talking about chadash, we're talking about beged. What is that all about? According to Rashi, it's for the white. According to the Rashba, it's for the... So I want to ta'ina that you have to go to the yesod of these bedikos. What is the yesod of a bedikah? Is the yesod of a bedikah that we want somehow to see what's there, but how are you going to see? It's on the inside. So you do a bedikah, and the bedikah verifies what's there. So the bedikah is thus there to give me glasses to what's inside, to give me a telescope, so to speak, that I should get to where I can't see from the outside to see what's going on.

On the inside. Or is it to be sofek? Are we trying to catch the dam? Are we trying to absorb the dam? Again, is it to see? Is it to absorb? Or is it to get to the cracks, l'chaira mesadek? What do I mean? L'chaira, when you listen, it doesn't sound like one has anything to do with the other. Is it to see? Yeah, it's to see. Is it to catch the dam? Yeah, it's to catch the dam. Is it to go into the chayrim sadakim? Yeah, it's to go into the chayrim sadakim. So why am I making, like, three different things, right? I'll explain to you. If you take a look at the Shulchan Aruch, how do you make the bedikos? He says that you bring it in to— you bring it in. Read it, Rabbi Yisai. V'tachnisenu b'oysam makom, b'omek, l'chayrim v'lesadakim, ad makom shehashemesh dosh. Ha? Shehashamesh dosh. V'tira im yesh boi shum mara admumis. Okay, so what do you do? V'tira im yesh boi shum mara admumis. So there's two dinim. There's two things that we're saying that we have to do: amok, amok. Ad sheha shamash dosh, right, and chayrim and tzedakim. Those are the two things. L'maisa, there's a machlokes rishonim if chayrim u'sedakim is a chiyuv. According to the Rashba and Rosh, you have to take a go by chayrim u'sedakim. The Raivid paskens that l'chatchila, avada we try by chayrim u'sedakim, but that's not the chiyuv b'di'eved. The chiyuv b'di'eved is ad sheha shamash dosh, that's it. So the chayrim u'sedakim is not the ikar. You knew this? You knew this, okay. According to some rishonim, chayrim u'sedakim is l'ikuva, it's a must. According to other rishonim, ad sheha shamash dosh is l'ikuva. But the opposite, the chayrim u'sedakim is not. Okay. There's another machlokes, Rabbi Yisai. If ad sheha shamash dosh is a chiyuv, according to the Chavos Daas, vadai you need ad sheha shamash dosh. According to the Noda B'Yehuda and Rabbi Akiva Eiger in siman lamed daled, no. There's no chiyuv to go till where ad sheha shamash dosh. You knew this? So why are you playing with your phone? Huh? Off, okay. Wasn't Nissan here? He left. Helly, can you bring me some plain water? I'm very tired. Huh? No, just plain water. I'm thirsty. Huh? ... למה לא? Of course, yeshu. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeshu. Okay, so again, according to one shita, cherem tzedakah is chayiv likuvah, and according to the other shita, cherem tzedakah is not chayiv likuvah. At the flip side, we have the other way around. Chaves daas paskens that you need ad shaa shamishdosh, while Reb Akiva Eiger and the Nodah B'Yehuda say, nah, as long as you went amok, as long as you went deep, it doesn't have to be amish ad shaa shamishdosh. Let me ask you a question, rabosai. The lashon of the Shulchan Aruch is interesting. Does the Shulchan Aruch say that you have to go ad shaa shamishdosh and b'cherem tzedakah? It says the other way around: v'tachtisedo b'oiso makom b'omek l'cherem tzedakah, and the cherem tzedakah...

It was ad shehashamesh dos. Ad shehashamesh dos. I hold this, I hold this diyuk is emes la'amito. I said in like years ago. It's good stuff. Femot, you hear? It doesn't say you have to put it in ad shehashamesh dos, then you put it in b'cheirim of tzedakah. It doesn't say that. It says you put it in the cherim of tzedakah. How far in the cherim of tzedakah do you have to put it? Ad shehashamesh dos. The implication is that cherim of tzedakah is not and shamesh dos. It's not a tosefes to, like a better bedikah of hashamesh dos and also the cherim of tzedakah. It's a shiur in the cherim of tzedakah that you put it so far up, ad shehashamesh dos. The bedikah is actually b'cherim of tzedakah. What do I mean with this? Okay, let's go into what exactly is a bedikah for. What's it for? So there's a Beis Yosef. The Beis Yosef says the reason for the bedikah, that in case there's any bleeding from the mekor, so in the beginning, which is makom shehashamesh dos, it would come out. That's where it would come from. Shamesh dos is mamash till the beginning. So if there's any bleeding, which is where it comes out from, which he calls the beis hachitzon, you saw the Beis Yosef. It's called the beis hachitzon, so therefore you have to check over there. So then it comes out that the ikar nekudah is what? Shamishdash, right? If the whole tumah is that it's coming from the beis harechem to the place where sha'ashamishdash, and the bedikah says the Beis Yosef is what? To check for that dam. So the ikar is the shamishdash, no? The chumra of safekim is that in case from there, maybe also. If the Beis Yosef says clearly it's to check the dam that's coming out of the rechem to the place, which is makom sha'ashamishdash, so avada the ikar bedikah, what is? Ad sha'ashamishdash. The Seder Taharah says, Beis Yosef, I don't agree with you. I don't believe it's to check for now. Why? Because you're right, maybe now it's not, but maybe a minute before, yeah, and maybe a minute later, yeah. I mean, what? Every minute it's going to come out of the beis harechem to the beis hachitzon. So what do we do? It's to check if it ever did come out yet. It's for the avar, and the best place to check for the avar is where? Is in the chumra of safekim, because that's where it lodges itself, if it did come out already, because it gets caught in the chumra of safekim. So says Seder Taharah, ... chav gimel. Mm-hmm. ... Ten more. ... שהיסוד של הבדיקה זה לבדוק עד שהשמש דש, ... אנחנו עכשיו, לדעת עכשיו, מה עכשיו יצא משהו? לא, שום דבר יצא. So if that's the ikur bedikah, so vizeh misba'er li, shehu yisbor, she'ad shehashamesh dash, zeh yesod habdikah. She'ein kein, lefi haSefer Torah, ... mihu meshez achshav, אולי זה יצא לפני חמש דקות. If זה היה יוצא לפני חמש דקות, it would get lost in the cheres hadakim. So the checky, the cheres hadakim is for the ovar. So the ikur bedikah, according to the Seder Torah, is what? On the ovar, bameilu where is it? It's in the cheres hadakim, right? Okay. But what big yisod? Oh, in the Beis Yosef, you see that there's an inyan of ...

Huh? He says it. El hakorchach. Get, read it, read it. No, no, go ahead. El hakorchach, read, read. That's right, because it gets lost over there. Beautiful. So then the ikur becomes—I hold it so emes what I'm telling you—so the ikur becomes the cherem sadakim. The only thing is, how far up? You have to go at makom shaShamish dosh, because that's from where it's coming from, so you can get lost anywhere in the cherem sadakim from there. But the ikur bedikah would be from the cherem sadakim. Okay. I saw—I saw acharonim part, the Remainim—how could it be that the ikur bedikah for the ovar, how could the ikur bedikah be for the ovar? Yeah, but maybe now. You don't know, it can get lost, go to the side. Again, if let's say you go b'cherem sadakim, so that's a raya for the ovar. Yeah, but how could you not learn like the Beis Yosef, that the bedikah is for now? You want to know now she's clean. You don't want to know if a few minutes ago she was clean. How could it be a bedikah? You want to know she's clean now, right? So what, are you going to go checking something that happened five minutes ago? That's what you're checking. But she makes the bedikah now; it's to check that she's clean now. I have shtar. She's making a hefsek taharah. Again, but that's not what he says, the sidrei taharah. The sidrei taharah comes along and tells me a lomdus, yeah, that the ikur is not to check for now. The ikur is to check for before. Who checks for before? The ikur is to check for now. What's he talking about? Who cares what happened five minutes ago? Shaila what happened now. Huh? Question is now. Let's say five minutes ago she didn't see. Maybe now she sees. I don't know. I thought this whole case was talking about shem nikim. She what? I thought this case was talking about shem nikim, not hefsek taharah. It's anything. Going back to the Shulchan Aruch. Both. It's hefsek taharah, shem, it's everything. I mean, right now, how can there be a sevara, bedikos for something that happened before? That's what we're talking about now. It's not a raya from now. How is checking קודם דם for now? Because she can't have any dam in her. Who cares when it came out? Chazakah means that maybe now it's coming out. Chazakah is to check something that came out. Why is it that way? It is. I just need to make sure she has no dam in her. Why should I care when it came? In her could mean that it's in her from before, but it could be that it's coming out right this minute. So you need both. You have to make sure. But you don't have both. That's what he's trying to say. Yeah, but if you're not going to check the chachamim's bedikah, how do you know if tomorrow morning you're going to check, you see the chachamim's bedikim dam, how do you know if it came from the shemesh, from the chachamim's bedikim? If you see the red on the, the, the cloth, how do you know where it came from? אתה חייב לנקות את הכל, כי לא תדע לך. But if זה משהו לא אומר. If I אומר, it's okay. We don't say that. It's all wonderful, we don't say that. That's good. If he would say that, it would be good, but that's not what he says. It's really checking. How does checking Chaymer Sadakin tell me about now? Chaymer Sadakin tells me about before. Okay, go ahead, Rafi, read it. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be reading. Whatever you want. You read what you want. You tell me your kashas. I don't have any kashas. Somehow, somehow Chaymer Sadakin with shamash dash is avar and hoveh. That's what you see from here, that Chaymer Sadakin and shamash dash is avar and hoveh. The Chaymer Sadakin is for the avar, and the shamash dash is for the hoveh. And the shamash dash is for the hoveh. So let's see, get inside. How does the Shulchan Aruch tell me? I understand. Why can't— I'm trying to clarify. Maybe that's what it is.

I'm saying, obviously one is for the omek and one is for the hevek, and maybe you do both. Let's see. V'tachlisena boisu makom b'omek, l'chorim u'lesadakim, ad makom shehashamishdosh, not because of the chorim u'sadakim. He's just telling you the order. You go b'chorim u'sadakim, and then you go all the way out to hashamishdosh, not because it's a shiur in the chorim u'sadakim. Okay, let's start again. Huh? Makom b'omek, l'chorim u'sadakim, ad... Very good. Because ve could be mashma that it's after. Oh, see, I want a tiny sechish halachah. The nafkamina would be, and then I'm going to go back to explain it. I'm not moving away till you get this, because it's beautiful what I'm going to say. I want to know if the chorim u'sadakim first, on the way up to get to the omek, or to the omek and then to the chorim u'sadakim. You like it. It's a shailah how to read the... I don't think any of the acharonim talk about it. I said maybe, maybe you can learn like— but, or the other way to learn it is stop, l'chorim u'sadakim, stop. And ad mokom should, because that's not for the choreves hadokim anymore. Separate, you have to go ad mokom shehashamesh dosh. Huh? Maybe it's a mistake. I don't know, I don't know. This is the way I have it here. This is the way I learned it. All my life I learned it. If he didn't mention that the old one is different, maybe it just printed... I don't know, maybe. What should I tell you? I don't know. That's the way we have the girsa, the chareidim stuff. Do you? What about your Shulchan Aruch? Like us, he must have... No, no, no. All of ours has the same girsa. The old ones are all this girsa. The old ones have without the vav. The old new ones with the vav. I just want to see the black, the one that came out this year. Okay, so do your homework. Okay, Reb Rafael, Reb Rafael, now you know what I'm saying. I'm saying good. You hear it now? Hear, hear? Shmak, shmak. Okay, good. Okay, go ahead. You have to hear this. You have to hear. Again, let me repeat. I learned the din in Shulchan Aruch. Start all from the beginning. I don't care, say it again. It's so beautiful. You need a bedget, and you need love, and you need the pishton, and you need that it should be yashan. Rashi learned it's all about color. White. It should be white. Rashba, it should be about soft. So what's the machlokes? What's the machlokes? So I said, you know, you could say there is no machlokes. It's both true. You need it to be white. You need it should be soft. And throughout, each one says a different nekudah. It's not mashma that way. It's mashma because to him the lavan is more important, and to him, to the Rashba, the rach is more important. That's what I want to tell you. According to Rashi, what's more important? Lavan. According to the Rashba, what's more important? Rach. What's the yesod of the bedikah? Is the yesod of the bedikah to catch color? Catch? Or the yesod of the bedikah is chermes hadag. So you're saying both are true, no? Let's talk a little bit more. רבי יוסף says—well, let's start a different machlokes. One shita, he said, learns the ikar of a bedikah is chermes hadag. If you don't have chermes hadagim, not good. Rosh, other Rishonim, Rabbeinu Yerucham, I think it holds like this. The other shita is, no, chermes are ra'ivin, alei nefesh lara'ivin. It's good to have chermes hadagim, but it's only good...

So, is it likuva, not likuva, machlokes Rishonim. What are they arguing? Why does one hold it must be and one other one holds, no, there's kefel. We find another machlokes. Ad shehasham meshdosh, does it have to be? According to many Rishonim, without that you don't have a bedikah. According to many Rishonim, Yehuda, kiv'eikar, it's kefelach. Even if it's not that far off, as long as you put it in. Yeah? So either chiyuv tzedakah is likuva, or ad shehasham meshdosh is likuva. The argument. Like I said like this: the Beis Yosef learns that the ikur is to find now. Now, now let's get down to where it comes out from. Where is that? That's ad shehasham meshdosh. Lefi zeh, and hachanami, the ikur would be ad shehasham meshdosh. So the Ritva says the ikur is the avar. What's the ikur, the avar? Because then it would go l'chayrim u'l'tzedakah. So according to him it comes out l'chayra that the ikur is chayrim u'tzedakah. You got a peleh. How could the ikur be the avar and not the hoveh, where he doesn't care about chayrim, he doesn't care about what, shemeshdosh? The other way around, Beis Yosef, you don't care about the avar? You don't want to know what? Where does the Beis Yosef says that that makom shemeshdosh is lav davka because it's impossible? He says— No, but he says that the whole thing is l'beis hachitzon, and that's mamash almost to ad makom... Guys, if that's what it means, you do as much as you could, but the ikur is to wear the beis hachitzonis. The cheremes tzedakim on the side is not the main thing. The main thing is to see now if there's blood coming out. It's clear in the beis. So if you're checking now for dam from the rechem, that's what you're checking for. If it's dripping, ... according to ... you're checking. The meileh, the ikur is cheremes tzedakim. This is clear. This is a clear dibur. So I bring the ... others ask, how can you ... not the ...? So the truth is, it says the Shulchan Aruch both. It doesn't say cheremes tzedakim only. It says cheremes tzedakim and shamash dash, right? It says both. So let's take a look. Do you mean in the Shulchan Aruch that you put it in l'cherem l'sadakim, and that's the bedikah, and the shiur is ad shehashamash dash? That's how we would do it originally. Or should we read the Shulchan Aruch as a stop? You have to put it in b'omek. And even according to your girsa, it's even better: b'omek, stop, u'l'cherem l'sadakim, stop, ad makom shehashamash dash, stop. And the pshat would be, it's not a shiur in the cherem l'sadakim. It's not a shiur in the cherem l'sadakim. It's a thing for itself, ad shehashamash dash. What would be the nafka mina? The me'iri could be like this: do you put it in l'cherem l'sadakim on the way to the shamash dash, or do you do it the other way around? You put it in ad shehashamash dash, and then you go for the cherem l'sadakim. No, same bedikah. As you go up, you go l'chayrim u'l'sadakim, because you're not even sure of the order. The order could be oimik, period, u'l'chayrim u'l'sadakim after. No, and what's called oimik ad shahamshdosh. Yeah, I could tell. Yes, you could. You should be able to tell if you're a good rav. You'd be able to tell the difference from down top up to down? Yeah, I could tell. So you'll know the order of the way. I could tell. First of all, I don't really care. I'm just answering you because you're bothering me for a reason. There's nothing to ask. Just first let's see what it says. I didn't say there's an afkamina. I just said, is the bedikah chayrim u'sadakim and geradah the chayrim u'sadakim all the way עד שהשמש דש, or you go to the chayrim u'sadakim—I'm sorry, the shamashdosh. Then, right. You know what the afkamina? I'll tell you the afkamina. What happens if a woman has trouble going to makom chayrim u'sadakim? It hurts her. She can go all the way up, it's no problem, but if she starts rubbing around, it hurts. Should you say, you know what, at least she got at makom shahamshdosh, it's good enough, forget about the chayrim u'sadakim. Or I could say it the other way around. It hurts to go all the way up.

But she can go b'chomer sadakim. If the ikar is the avar, and it's the chomer sadakim that it falls, who says you have to go all the way up there? It's on the sides. If, for example, she has a petza, she has something that hurts her in the place which is shamash dash, it hurts. Maybe it's not a problem. You know where they bring this case? I'll tell you where they bring this case. They bring a case, there's a petza in the makom shehashamash dash. The other way around: there's a petza on the sides. So what do you do? You take a shvoiferes, you put it all the way up to makom shehashamash dash, right? I'm telling you, this is telling you this shaila. If the chomer sadakim is, then you don't have anything. What do you have? If the ikar is the shamash dash, so you have. It all depends on what the ikar is. Is the ikar the bedikah, the chomer sadakim, then you don't have anything. You closed it up, so what do you have? Ma she'ein kein if the ikar is the shamash dash, so you have. But what happens the other way around? Makom shehashamash dash, mamash it's too hard, it hurts. You know where you have this a lot? By a kallah, she can't go up on makom shehashamash dash. So her bedikos b'chomer sadakim, as far as she can go. What about a ayudi? Huh? It's also a case. It's one of the cases. R' Moshe brings the case of a ayudi. That's where R' Moshe brings. It's an ayudi there, she can't go up. So it's one of the cases, I'm telling you. You can't go up on makom she... You can do the chomer sadakim. So if the ikar is the chomer sadakim, so you do that. But if the main thing is the makom shehashamash dash, so don't do—not to do any of it is not a bedikah, just to say. See, chomer sadakim, it comes, I did most of the chomer sadakim. I did as much as I could. But you can't say I did as much as I could of makom shehashamash dash by doing chomer sadakim, which is not even close to makom shehashamash dash. I'maisha teshuvah about it. The nafkamina is, is the ikar the bedikah makom shehashamash dash, or is the ikar the bedikah what garshon, the chermes hadakim? So therefore that's the shaylah: is the likuvah the chermes hadakim, or is the likuvah the makom shehashamash dash? Okay. Now, if you can't go up, so if you hold the ikar is the chermes hadakim, so at least you do as much as you can. So then what do you want to do? You want to not do the bedikah? So what should I do? Huh? There's a shiur, there's a special—if you can't, you do as much as you could, and then you have to speak to a rav if it's enough. There is certain enough which is enough. Okay, now, what's wrong? What's wrong? Hello, what's wrong? Are you here? You bother—it's beautiful, no? Are you listening? It's sheinah zacher. You hear it? Why don't you write this down? All this applies to the first day in the Seder Taharah. All this that I says in the Seder Taharah? Yeah, let me hear. Did he say this last nekudah? This what Reb... speaking over the Seder Taharah, he spoke on... chose to choose different yosef and said this psak. That what? Problem is, they blocked off one side, and he paskened, just go up, check on the top, and finish. He was asking this question. He says, Bizayin peshit, I understand. It's only to check for mayim... Okay, and what about the nekudah of how to read the Shulchan Aruch? Oh, so you don't—does that not negate? Because that's mine. It's not that Seder Taharah. It's not that important. But this, rabosai, I want to say a chidush, chidush. Of course, the nafkamina is l'chatchila b'diavad, right? Meaning, if you do the cheres hadakim, you do shashamish dosh, if the ikar is the cheres hadakim, so b'diavad it's kosher. But if you learn the other way, so then b'diavad it's kosher the other way. You didn't do the—you hurt her, so you didn't do the cheres hadakim. Okay. There's a gevaldige Chasam Sofer. Kibalti—Chasam Sofer shulchan—kibalti, how are you supposed to make the bedikah? It's supposed to be done standing. Why? Not laying down, not laying. Why? The Chasam Sofer says that in case she lays down, in case she lays down, it might go back. The dam, if it came out now and she's laying, so it might go back. Whatever, it's not going to drip down. It's not going to catch it.

To what? If she's laying down, not gonna drip down. Read the Chsam Sofer inside. Kibalti, nu? Well, he doesn't explain it that way. If she's what? Yeah, it's a machlokes haposkim if it's l'chatchila b'di'eved. Many poskei Eretz Yisrael, they hold it's l'chatchila. If you don't do it, you stand, you're not... I'll explain to you where that comes from. Go ahead, nu. It's on the side of the Shulchan Aruch. Kibalti, kibalti... nu? Go ahead, read the Chsam Sofer, nu. You have it on the side of the Shulchan Aruch. Who doesn't? You don't have the Chsam Sofer? Oh, they don't keep the... You have it. No, you don't have the Chsam Sofer on the side. See, this is what they do. You know, they try to make it fancy for you, and the Shulchan... and the way it works is... Okay, where's the Chsam Sofer? Is he bringing it from somewhere else? Huh? Go ahead, Chsam Sofer, nu. Kibalti... kibalti... What's it say, kibalti? No, it says kibalti. Where's that goyish? Does it say where it is? Okay, go ahead, yeah. Okay, we can't see supposed to stand. Why? Why do you have to stand? It's very important to stand. And the answer is, pashut because in case she's laying, huh? That's the one hand in one foot. But what about the stirah? The stirah is clear. It's what the Eliyahu brings down. Since Eliyahu says that the reason is because otherwise it might go back. It might go back. Okay, now. It might what? It says it really. It might go back. Read it. He explains that's the ta'am of the... What do you have here? Where is this? Yeah. He says it clearly. He says it clearly. Here. ...כי בדיקת חורם צדק, וכי בדיקה בו לברר שאינו רואה כרגע. ולכן צריך לבדוק עד מקום בדיקת השמש. ...בדיקת חורם... ...הטעם... ...אז בדיקת חורם... ...למטה... ...אז בדיקת חורם... ...למעלה... ...למקום בדיקת השמש... ...לברר... I see, he says this. I want to say this. You hear? Okay, so let's go back to him. So you have to do it by mi. Why do you have to do it by mi? Why? What's the chiyuv by mi? So let's make a cheshbon. Hamidah means it can drip down. If you do it b'makom shehamashdosh, so then you're catching it when it came out. You're catching it when it came out. Hachei kein, if you do it b'chorim u'sadakim, it should make a difference, right? It's like this. Let's say you put it over there. You're catching it when it comes out. So what's the difference if you're laying over— You don't need to drip down. Huh? Wait a minute, wait a minute. Unless you say that it shayach to metzius, you can't mamish go. It can come out and it can go back. You're not going to catch it, mamish the top of makom shehamashdosh, right? So when you look at the chorim u'sadakim, what are you looking? You're looking in case dam was zav. So if you do it b'shchivah and it came out, so the dam can never be zav to the chorim u'sadakim.

Because it's not ... it's your lane flat, but it stays. It stays. We're talking about a drop of blood. It stays. Again, if you're going— if the bedikah is at makom shehashamash doch, then there's no chiluk between laying, sitting; there really is no chiluk. But if the bedikah is for the chorei mesadakim, so what are you catching in the chorei mesadakim? But the sidrei taharah only the upper. Of course not, no, because it can't be only for the upper. It can't be for the upper. It always is. You'll never ... I don't hold that. You see, that's what I'm trying to tell you. I'm not sure. When I learned up the Shulchan Aruch, I'm trying to tell you it's very possible that it's the upper and the lower. No, you see, that's not what I'm talking about. Ad makom ... it's like this: could you go ad makom ... what you call it, ad makom shehashamash doch? You can never go there anyway. But what you could do is go to the chorei mesadakim that are in the place where that makom shehashamash doch. That רבי עקיבא Eiger says. Rabbi Akiva Eiger says, ... ולכן צריך לבדוק עד מקום דישת השמש, אלא שמכיוון שעל פי רוב אין יכול להכניס יד עד לשם, יצטרכו בדיקת חורי מסדקים כדי לברר שפסק הדם ... והוסיף שכך כתב סדרי טהרה בטעם הדבר. That's what Rabbi Akiva Eiger learned it up. Rabbi Akiva Eiger had this kasha: choirah, according to you. We're situating tirutz that's for the olvar, but you want to know about now. You don't want to know about the olvar, so you don't mean olvar. You mean olvar of the hoyve. How do you know he's just not saying? If you have a ... situation, check what's happening now. Look, kol haposkim make sure that it didn't happen. ... There's a lot like that. He's saying maybe that's what he's saying now. You can't go up all the way to see what's now. You can't. Kol haposkim checked that she wasn't dirty that day, and מסתמא she stayed that way. That's how it says. That's what I heard. That's not Reb Kiveiger. Take Reb Kiveiger and see the ... Reb Kiveiger is saying that the checking of the chomeres hatzadkim is another way of checking ad makom shehashamash dosh, but that can only be if—if it's impossible. If you're standing. If you're laying, you don't have in the chomeres hatzadkim the checking of ad shehashamash dosh. When you're laying down, you're gonna have to go ad makom shehashamash dosh. So I want to say a chiddush. You want to hear a gevaldige chiddush? If it's possible to reach that ad makom shehashamash dosh, ... you can do laying. You don't have to do it. Huh? You're gonna go back. Oh, unless you learn a second thing, that it goes back. And nafkamina would be if you could reach it. So if it's only because you can't reach—let's say you could reach it. Let's say you're doing it with something, with a utensil, that she doesn't—if, for example... It's clarifying like this. Let's say you have a doctor who's doing the bedikah for you. That's the bedikah. You're going to the doctor, he's doing the bedikah. Leikut, they pasken you're allowed to do that. On the seventh day, you go to the doctor, that's your bedikah, fine. You don't stand, you're lying. So kohen chasam sofer, you're not yotzei. So first of all, if you come and say the Chasam Sofer is not like ... he only said lechatchilah, but he brings acharonim, poskim, knei bosim. What's his name? He's a big, he's a big posek in Eretz Yisrael. What's his name? Knei bosim. He turns into a character. Oh, Unsdorf, Matisdorf, what's his name? Bramsdorfer, Bramsdorfer. He's the posek of all the white guys, the guys who walk around in white, huh? All the zebes, they call them zebes, all the zebes. ... Who are poskim shel hamelachim, yeah? ... All right, a kasha from ... So he paskens you're not yotzei. If you don't do this, Chasam Sofer, you're not yotzei. So I learned that could be the shoychev is a different problem. Maybe the shoychev is a problem that it goes back. If the shoychev is a problem that it goes back, I think Tzitz Eliezer learns like this, then even with the eved you're not yotzei.

If you learn the problem is that it comes out, but then it has to be zav to l'chayrim tzedakim. So, lu yetzuyer, lu yetzuyer, yeah? Lu yetzuyer, she goes to a doctor. The doctor's not going to make her stand. The doctor's going to make her—unless she says chiddush, I don't know. You tell the doctor, she check her. That's what I'm telling you. It's telling the shaylah. I'm taining he goes in anyway, so there's no story. That's what I'm taining. I'm taining chiddush. But the chasam sofer is not nogea because you're going all the way anyway, unless you say it might go back. Say it might go back, that's a different story. I'm saying if you go to check till there, but it goes back. Maybe it came out and it goes back. She's laying flat, so maybe it goes back. She's not really laying; she's just climbing. The opposite, for keri. No, for keri, she's laying in a way, in a position that—it's not even laying flat, where it's more than flat. The laying is even more than flat. It's tilting the other way, that the head is tilting facing down and the feet are facing up. Again, if you learn the Chasam Sofer's taanis, which is brought down in Acharonim, many Acharonim learn like this: if it comes out, it might go backwards. So then, eina chanami, in the doctor's chair it's not going to help you anything. But if you learn it's because you need zov to get to l'chayrim tzedakim, so where you take it, go at makom shehashamash דש, it's bichlal not a sukkah. That's what I tain. Yeah? What's the nafka mina? The nafka mina is this yesod, that it's very shayach that l'chayrim tzedakim is another way. Of checking ad shashamishdash. It's the whole new way of learning the sugya. You check, you hear, b'omek l'choirim u'l'sadakim, ad makom shashamishdash, because that's how you check ad makom shashamishdash, through the choirim u'sadakim. That's why the Shulchan Aruch talks about the choirim u'sadakim. Again, either the pshat is like this: tachnisenu b'ois makom b'omek, and that is ad makom shashamishdash and also l'choirim u'sadakim. Or the pshat is you're checking l'choirim u'sadakim, and then I ask you, but what do you mean ad makom shashamishdash? So you tell me it's two different things: choirim u'sadakim, and then ad shashamishdash. A dilma, v'keretz, all hagdarah l'choirim u'sadakim. So I asked a kashya: so why is the hagdarah, according to Kiveiger, it's gar gishmak? Because the etzem, really, only checking the choirim u'sadakim. By checking the choirim u'sadakim, that's how you have ad makom shashamishdash. That's what Kiveiger is saying. Now try to get to this. So how do you ever check what was there where she's omed? Okay, go ahead, say the two ways to learn the Shulchan Aruch. I'm not saying it's to read the Shulchan Aruch. I know, but that's what you would have to say. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. Get up and say the two, three pshatim. Let's go. The Shulchan Aruch says she's supposed to do a bedikah b'omek l'choirim u'l'sadakim ad makom shashamishdash. The shaylah is whether it's two separate things: she's supposed to do a bedikah and also choirim u'sadakim, or she's supposed to go choirim u'sadakim ad where? Ad makom shashamishdash. Ad makom shashamishdash is not a separate place; it's a shiur in where choirim u'sadakim end. That meaning, that's how thorough she has to be. So if you learn that the ikar is the chomer ha-sadakim, so then it's beautiful, since chomer ha-sadakim too. But if you learn you takanidat ha-shamshdosh, which is what kashrus chareish always really need, so the teretz is either like Reb Akiva Eiger, because that's the only way—the way you have ha-shamshdosh is by chomer ha-sadakim, or the pshat is you can never get the shamshdosh, so at least you have the chomer ha-sadakim. Yeah? But ein hachi nami, you takan need a shamshdosh. So therefore it comes out a chiddush: lu yetzuir, you can get the ha-shamshdosh, so then you don't need the chomer ha-sadakim, so then you don't need the whole sam-soif, unless you learn the sam-soif is based on it going back, so then it has nothing to do with chomer ha-sadakim. It has to do even in ha-shamshdosh—you can never catch ha-shamshdosh either. What would be the nafka mina? I have three nafka minas I want to discuss with you. Let's say you want to make a bedikah not with a cloth, with your finger. Use your finger. So the siddur Torah is done. No good. Make it. Lava? You could tell—dam, no? You can tell dam on the color of the skin, no? It's not kolet; it doesn't catch blood. No? What?

Okay, so he, he, he, he. Rav five on the bottom says he's not 100% sure. He brings maybe it's this and maybe it's this and maybe it's that on the bottom. He brings this, he brings this, the Seder Taharah, and he says he doesn't know which one is it. Is it because it's not white? Is it because it's not koilet? Is it because it's not a beged? Which reason is it? Huh? Maybe it could be all. Maybe. Huh? All. Kulam. You know what I hold? I hold, that's what I started the shiur with. I want to know what the ikkar is. Is the ikkar the cherem of tzedakim? Is the ikkar to catch the dam? Is the ikkar to check the dam, check what's in the dam? I have a shayla like this. Lu yetzuyer, I once spoke to you about, lu yetzuyer the bedikah didn't catch the dam, but it made the dam fall out of the... Are you trying to take the dam out? The dam should be from there, it should be here now? It should be on this? Or are you trying to get to find out what's going on inside? Or are you trying to dig into the cherem of tzedakim? Read on the bottom what he says. Read, it's the first, it's the first שער הציון on the first thing on the bottom. He doesn't know what the reason is. What's the shayla? Oh, maybe dam is davuk yafeh. Who says the dam is davuk? What do you need that for? Oh, it'll come out to... I mean, it's, it's... I don't know if this... I don't believe it's true. I don't believe that there's no trace of blood when you touch blood. There's something wouldn't, like this pulling clean. I don't know. When you go and you put... What's, coming out? Coming out, right? Coming out, it gets cleaned off. Okay, go ahead, next. You can't tell. I don't... Okay. Two more points I want to bring out, and then I want to leave. You ready? How big, how big does it have to be? Huh? How big does the aid have to be? Okay, some say it has to be three by three. Beged is three by three, right? It gives you... the different shiur, yeah? If it's to catch makom shehashamash dash, then what does the shiur have to be? Anything. If it's about the chomer of tzedakah, so the ikar is the finger to go around, so as much to cover the finger. I hope that's the shaylah, the shiur. The shaylah in the poskim, what the shiur is: do you want shamash dash, you want chomer of tzedakah, what the ikar? And the shiur of the aid, we'll tell us. Final last thing: what happens if you use one of those things that... a suction thing, what do they call those? Not a suction, the thing that you use for a shot. Syringe suction. Put it in, and you go all the way... You can't miss. You go mamish all the way into the makom shehashamash dash, okay? And you pull out, okay? Oy yoy, it's not a beged. But you can't get a better bedikah than that. Can you get a better bedikah than that? That's what I want to... If you're afraid of the shamash dash... The chayrim mesadakim is all about, what, rabosai, just to get the shamash dash. So ein lecha davar yoser toifes. Maybe, אנחנו, we'll invent a new type of bedikah. I want to tie in under Rav Avadi's auspices, a new type of bedikah. We'll use a syringe to get in there and suck out the dam from the beis, makom shehashamash dash. Why not? But if the bedikah is the chayrim mesadakim, you won't have it. I'll tell you this shailah: could you use a syringe? The first shailah would be the doctor who gets up for chayrim mesadakim, and it's not b'shchivah. I'm sorry, it's not b'amidah, it's b'shchivah. We say it might go back, when we say— no, there's no shailah; he could go chayrim mesadakim also. By him that's not a problem. And the second shailah is this: can you use a syringe to get into the— you're not going b'chayrim mesadakim; you could go mamash at makom shehashamash dash.

And what's the reason for the beged? It's because you have to be teike, you have to be soifek. Ein lecha soifek gadol mizeh. You have to see the dam; ein lecha re'iyas dam gadol mizeh. Is it rach because of chermes hadakim, or is it lavan because of catch the color? It would be to use a syringe. We should pasken this way: a woman that has a cheis, she had a kidney, whatever reason. Maybe she has a finger hurt; she has a problem with her fingers. A woman that has a cast, she could use a syringe maybe. Big chiddush, chiddush nifla. You like it? I want to have a nice idea. This toy, this top button, this box, take a box here, a box, but this one.