Hilchos Arba Minim: The Esrog, Its Parts, and Murkav Issues

Topics

• Introduction to Arba Minim
• The Source of the Esrog
• The Rambam on the Meaning of Hadar
• Another Peshat in the Esrog
• The Esrog and the Flower
• Parts of the Esrog
• Esrog: the top part, the bottom part, and the checklist
• Esrog v’lo murkav
• Hadar: psul and hidur
• The Shiur and the Checklist
• Maizeid and the Question of Externality
• The Three Things So Far
• The Sugya of Esrogim
• The Tzurah of an Esrog
• Psulim and Hiddurim
• What Hiddur Means
• Hudder L’Halacha and the Esrog Sugya
• The List of Sources
• Can You Tell Whether an Esrog Is Murkav?
• Teimani Esrogim and the Chazon Ish
• Murkav and the Chazon Ish’s Suraygim
• The Other Side: Be’er Yaakov in the B’er Halacha
• Modern Fruits, Vegetables, and Berachos
• Murkav and the Practical Questions
• Psul Mara and the Color of an Esrig
• The Color of an Esrog
• Green and the Mishnah Berurah
• Rav Chaim Kanievsky בשם the Chazon Ish
• The Bach’s View
• Lachluchas, Chaser, and the Chazon Ish
• Kaparah and Busheh
• The Bach, the Mishnah Berurah, and the Green Esrog
• Maariv and the Ra’ayah from Wetness
• Repeated Chant
• Amen
• Opening Exchange
• Positioning and Movement
• Closing Exchange
• Shinui Mareh
• Brown, Red, and the Halachah
• Rav Hotner and Rav Holtman
• A Bichele Written B’Kitzurim
• Closing the Conversation

Transcript

# Introduction to Arba Minim

Hilchos Arba Minim is very complex and detailed. There is a great deal of information, so the right way to begin is to get our feet wet, to start with the basics, to become familiar with them. Let us begin with the makor of the lulav and esrog.

Are you ready? Let’s go. We have work to do.

# The Source of the Esrog

The esrog—where does it come from? Beautiful. The esrog is a *pri eitz hadar*. The Gemara darshens this in several ways. The famous derashah is *hadar*: the fruit that remains *hadar*, that remains on the tree from year to year. That is the esrog, which is *hadar bilvanah mishanah lashanah*. There are other derashos as well; there are two more. Read the Gemara.

The Rambam in his *Peirush HaMishnayos*, at the beginning of Zera’im, says that we do not follow the derashos in the sense of deriving the identity of the species from them. We have a mesorah what an esrog is, from the times of Yehoshua and onward, and that is how we continue. So why does the Gemara speak about all these things? To give us the makor, to show where it is in the Torah.

# The Rambam on the Meaning of Hadar

It is interesting, though, that the Rambam in Chumash learns that the word *hadar* is the name of the esrog. In Lashon Kodesh, esrog is *hadar*. The Rambam says that the word *chemdah* means that it is dear, precious. *Hadar* in Lashon Kodesh means dear, very dear, something precious to you. So the esrog is called *hadar*. It is not even a remez; it is a literal translation. It is a Rambam in Chumash.

You have to be sharp, because there is a lot of information to cover. So what language is *esrog* in? It seems to be from Yavan, or something like that. That is called tilt job. He is good at it; he gets downstairs and upstairs fast.

All right, all right. Go ahead.

# Another Peshat in the Esrog

It is כדאי to know another peshat. There is another peshat. According to the Rambam in *Pirush HaMishnayos*, we just know it. When did that start? He says it was always so. There was never a shaylah. There was no question of, “Yes, it’s a mesorah; everything is a mesorah.” He says that from the time we took the esrog, it never changed. The same thing continues. That is the Rambam, *Pirush HaMishnayos*.

And this that we have to look at the simanim is irrelevant. Chazal were only teaching us Gemara language: where do we know that it is an esrog? One of the things about an esrog is that *she’tam eitzah u’piryah shavim*, meaning that the taste of the tree and the fruit is the same. We all know that originally all the trees were supposed to be like that. The Rambam says, *eitz pri, oseh pri*: the tree itself is pri, that you should take a bite out of the tree and say, ah, delicious orange. But they did not listen.

How does it say such a thing? The Maharal speaks about it. They just wanted that they should not listen. So He put into the beriah that there should be a mesorah, that you should not listen. And that is why later, when other mori’im did not listen, “Arurah ha’adamah” — the earth was cursed, says the Maharal, because it all came from the shoresh of the earth. But l’maaseh, there is one tree that did listen. The esrog listened. Gefolgt. And that is why *she’tam eitzah u’piryah shavim*. Na, zeh shteyt negeidah.

So if so, he said, that is tzaddik. That is why we look and we find in the remazim that the esrog is b’davka a tzaddik. And that is the hidur. What is the hidur of the esrog? The hidur of the esrog is tzaddik. Listen to the Ribono Shel Olam. *Hadar bi* — that what? *She’tam eitzah u’piryah shavim*.

Now, if you want a shtickel drashah, can I eat the tree? I never tried it. Go ahead, read the remazim. I know, of course he brings the famous remazim. So read it clearly. Let the oylem hear it. Asmachtos! Yes, we always knew. There was no shaytan. It is Aramaic, you hear? That is the actual name. You want to know what the Targum is? In Aramaic, it is what? It is esrog.

So the other thing is that the word *hadar*, maybe he will talk about *hidur*. Let us see if he knows. The third part he says is that the most *hadar* fruit happens to be an esrog. That is true, but we have to discuss that. We are going to have to discuss it. It is a very interesting cipher about that last piece of the Ramban. You just reminded me. You just reminded me. You know, I will say it now, because I will excite you. I will show you that the shiur is going to be a mixture of halachah and interesting things, because we have to mix it. Otherwise the oylem is going to fall asleep on me, including me, because I am exhausted tonight. So I have to wake myself up.

Tell me: an esrog — esrog is called esrog? That is its real name? That is its nickname. Its real name is not esrog. According to the Ramban, its real name is *hadar*. In loshon Yiddish, an esrog is called *hadar*. So you walk into the store and you say, “Do you have a hadar? Do you have a hadar?” And the guy looks at you and goes, “What did you say? What are you talking about?” And you say, “The Ramban says that the esrog is called hadar. That is its Hebrew name.” Hebrew. Its Hebrew name is hadar. You knew this? Okay, now you know.

The Rambam says, do not pay attention to all the Gemaros that say *hadar bilonah*. It is not negated. It is only remazim and asmachtos. The real thing is, we know in B’resheis what an esrog and a lulav are, and that is how we follow, says the Rambam. And the Ramban brings down this Rambam as well.

We spoke about that: one of the things about the esrog is that the tree and the fruit are the same. So we said that the Maharal explains that this is the milah of the esrog, because the esrog listened to the Eibishter. The Eibishter did not want it. It is *pri oseh pri*, but the tree and the fruit should be the same. The only one that listened was the esrog.

Okay, you tasted it? Okay. So I want to teach you what this might mean. I have a — you know, like I said, I always come in un-pipit; sometimes better than pipit. When I am un-pipit, I am usually better. In my mind, if you know how the esrog blossoms, it begins actually as a flower.

# The Esrog and the Flower

An esrog is actually a flower that blossoms into a fruit, okay? Which means the esrog started off as an eitz. So think about it: eitz pri, that the eitz of the pri is the same. Cinnamon is the bark of the tree. Maybe if there’s something there like the bark, you could grind it up, right? So he wants to say that if you tasted the tree and you grind it, would it have the same taste? I don’t know.

But I can tell you that in my mind, if you realize—and I think the Bichlach, the picture in the Bichlach, shows you how the esrog begins. No, no, no, it’s licked and cupped in the Bichlach, the sheen of the Bichlach. I have trouble with that book, by the way. Got a lot of trouble with that book. He’s machria, or maybe he’s bekitzer, maybe. I don’t know. We have to talk about a lot of things he writes in here.

Bekitzer, every fruit starts out as a flower. Oh, see, I don’t know this. Every fruit? Yeah. An orange starts off as a flower? Yeah, that’s what it is. It becomes, for a while, the same for a hebron. That’s the blossoms. Blossoms. The Roman bottles—that’s what he calls it. But a fruit grows just as a blossom. The center of a flower is the stigma on that. Okay, so I take that back. Okay, so then forgive me. I just was throwing something out.

All right, I’ll call upon him. Tameit zeh pir yeshov. And that’s what the Maimonides is. That’s what the Maimonides is. That’s what the Maimonides is. That’s what the Maimonides is. That’s what the Maimonides is.

# Parts of the Esrog

An esrog—what does an esrog look like? So I see you have the Bichale there. Show everybody, because we’re going to learn the top of the esrog is called a sheyshanta, which means it looks like a little piece of bark, right? The ball part is called a sheyshanta. Sheyshanta. Sheyshanta. Does he bring it? Does he bring the picture there? Huh? Sheyshanta is a crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown. A crown.

You know what it looks like? Like if, say, the Torah has a crown, you know? This looks something like that. It’s called a sheyshanta. He brings it. Okay. Does he call it the sheyshanta? He teaches you the sheyshanta? No. All right, but show everybody what the sheyshanta is.

Now, the sheyshanta is attached to something called a pitim. Now, why am I doing this? Because if you only knew how difficult the word pitim is, and how many complex halachos are based on understanding well what the pitim is, you’ll realize that it’s important to know the word pitim well. So the pitim is what the sheyshanta stands on. Then after that is something called a dad. A dad is the top part where it starts to become a ball that the pitim is on—the little round. No, no, no. After the pitim, it starts the top, the actual esrog. That’s called the dad. After that, as it slopes down, you have a chaytim. Chaytim means a nose, actually.

This is the dad? That’s right. That’s the dad. That part is the dad. This circle, what he circled, is the dad. Not all esrogim look like that. Okay, we’ll discuss. I wish I—I don’t have one, I’m sorry. And again, like I said, Rabbi Yisai, if I’m not 100% clear tonight, you’ll bear with me. I’m very, very tired. Very, very tired. But I’ll try my best.

The dad is that little hole thing? No, no, no. The whole green thing is the dad? In this picture, it’s that. The sheyshanta is that little top. The chaytim. The pitim is this stick here? This. You know why you learned that? That’s how Shulchan Aruch sounds. That’s how Shulchan Aruch sounds.

Let me tell you where the problem is. The Shulchan Aruch calls the pitim the sheyshanta, and the Rambam calls the sheyshanta the pitim, and the Rambam calls the chaytim the pitim. Just listen to me. Trust me. Trust me for the sake of learning the halachos. And if you want it to be, if you look at the Bira Halachos, Seif Beis, and Tafresh Mem Ches, he brings the Rambam—that’s where you got it from, right? No. I just don’t know what you’re saying.

Okay, so let’s go simple. This is the sheyshanta, that ball, all right? Such a funny way of saying it—a ball. Okay, the crown. The crown. That’s really what I’d like to call it. The crown is the sheyshanta. The stick that it stands on is the pitim. The dad.

# Esrog: the top part, the bottom part, and the checklist

This is where you see the arrow: that marks the beginning of the dad. Then the top part is called the height. Why is this important? Because psalm in the height is much stricter than psalm in the rest of the esrog. Where does the dad end up? There are no measurements for that. It is simply where it begins, and the height is that whole top part.

Why is that so significant? Because there is a very big not, which means a lot. It is more common. So mara is possibly mashu by the height. Anything that changes colors—we will get to it again. I just want you to get familiarized. That is the beginning. It is in the same area; there is not a gemara’s lala. Yes, I am saying it for a reason, because there are not gemaras lala. There is by the kudus, by dots. We will get to it a little bit later.

The rest of it is called guf ha-esrog. Understood? I do not have to explain it. Afterwards, on the bottom, like when you put an asterisk down, it is called moshech. It is called the mesh of an asterisk, which is the base of the asterisk, and then the okets is that little piece, like a piece of wood. Okets, step, and that, of course, is going to be very important, how the okets and the step get to the step. All right.

For the sake of getting familiarized—I am getting the word better and better—and for beginning to get your feet wet, so to speak, in the whole thing, I am making a checklist. I want you to have a checklist of what is kosher and not kosher in an esrog, and then we are going to have a checklist of what is hadar or not hadar in an esrog.

# Esrog v’lo murkav

The first thing I am going to talk about is esrog v’lo murkav. I stop. Everybody heard the word murkav, right? The biggest chiddush, and maybe the biggest peleh, of the sugya of esrog is the word murkav. Because, as I will show you, it is not mentioned—not in the Gemara, not in the Rishonim, not in the Shulchan Aruch, nowhere. And yet it is the biggest tumul in hilchos esrog.

I am saying it is a poshute zach. Why is it such a poshute zach? Many a keren of a mata murkav was—it is so poshut, every poshut. It is a morgan’s claim. It is not a rain esrog. It is not a hadar. It is a rain esrog. It is not a hadar. How do you say a hadar? I do not know. It is something you have to make. You inject it somewhere. That is gezaldik. So you are saying it really is esrog? Okay, we are going to learn there is a Mishnah Berurah that is machmir. Huh? I do not know what is growing there. He brings down the what? That there is not a car for it? A mixture? Mishnah Berurah. It is exactly what it is. It is a Mishnah Berurah, which is a mime. And Mordechai will get to it in a few minutes.

Pashut murkav. It is a graft. No, so it is not an esrog. I said esrog. It is not a murkav. It is not an esrog. You need an esrog. Where is it coming from? A lemon tree? Well, they make them in Israel. A mixture of two things. Now, if you want to know, there are many ways they could graft it. They can graft the fruit. They can graft it through the trees, through the branches. It is not negated. Bottom line is we do not take murkavim, and the velt is mamish murkav, murkav, murkav. We are going to talk about it in a few minutes. But that is esrog. We will learn murkav.

So that is your first thing. You walk into the store, you have to make sure: is it a murkav? And obviously it is probably not, because that is the whole idea with the different esrogim, where they come from. It has to do with the esrog. It has to do with the murkav. The main problem is the murkav. That is the whole story. The yenevim, the teimenim, the chvez, the chazim—it is all about murkav. And the whole murkav, rabboisai, is a no-show in the Shulchan Aruch or anywhere. I will show you where the first mekor is: it is a teshuvas haRamah. And to me, the peleh is that the Ramah himself does not bring it in Shulchan Aruch. That I do not get. The teshuvas haRamah speaks about it, and for some reason it is not in Shulchan Aruch. Okay, so let us just take it for a fact: esrog v’lo murkav.

# Hadar: psul and hidur

The next thing you have to check is hadar. Now there are two types of hadar. There is hadar l’ikuvah, which means that it posels the esrog, and then there is hadar, which is hidurim. The hadar which posels the esrog is psalmara and psalm chaser. There are two categories. Sometimes it is posel because of what it looks like, and sometimes it is posel because it is missing. It is chaser. We are going to talk about chaser. Chaser is an interesting halachah, because we are not even sure what the chaser of chaser is. Is the chaser of chaser that it is not hadar? But let us just say, for argument’s sake right now, it is hadar. And there are two problems in hadar: first problem is what it looks like, and second, it has to be complete.

# The Shiur and the Checklist

And not missing. The next part you have to check on the checklist is the shiur. It is very important that it should have a shiur, or a shreigim, though they are very small. Rebbes like to take tiny little shreigim; you know that. There are two types: some Rebbes take the humongous ones, and some like the little shreigim because they are very easy to hold. So you have to make sure there is a shiur. The shiur is a kebeitzah, and the Beis HaLevi comes along and says that the shiur is like two beitzim. You should try to make sure that it is like two beitzim.

So let us look there quickly. The shiur of the shreig, Shulchan Aruch, Taf-Reish Mem-Zayin, se’if katan, beitzim. We will talk lema’aseh afterwards, but first let us get the checklist. I want to give you an acquaintance with the checklist, as an index to what we are going to talk about: Taf-Reish Mem-Zayin, se’if katan, beitzim. Who is reading? Shiur esrog. What is the shiur of an esrog? Kebeitzah. What does the Beis HaLevi say? You should make sure it is what? Beitzim. Not beitzim? No, the Beis HaLevi. That famous Beis HaLevi, that the beitzim are not the same, and therefore what? Okay, so remember: not one, but two. Lema’aseh, we will talk about it later. I am not going to sit there and hack with you on the exact shiur of an esrog. I will hack with you later, but first get a grain to drop, boys. First know what an esrog is, and then you can start picking at it.

# Maizeid and the Question of Externality

Someone once came to Maizeid with an esrog. Maizeid did not like dishonest, external things from people. It had to be real. Sometimes, as Maizeid used to say, a person would take the esrog in his table, and the maror he would bring to shul would be so big, and the esrog would be this tiny little esrog. Some of it is, “You saw my esrog, you saw my esrog.” There is some of that. Radness did not like the external.

So someone once came to Maizeid and asked, “Is it kosher?” Maizeid looked at it: kosher. It started bothering my grandfather after every little thing. So my grandfather saw that he was just hacking. So Maizeid asked him, “Yourself, are you also bodek so well? I mean, every night when you go to sleep, do you think, maybe I am? You bodek the esrog so well?” We are going to do all this. We are going to do it. We are even going to talk: should the guy sit with a loupe? A lot of people sit there with loupes and magnifying glasses, telescopes. Hashem Yishmor, you know, do all that; talk about it. I am not saying they are wrong. I am just saying.

Some people have activities. Those are the baseball games. Okay, listen to me carefully. We are going to split up what is halacha, what is chumra, and what is the right thing and the nice thing to do. But just bear with me. I am doing it in a way. I am giving integrity. I am going to teach a little bit and give you a little gishmak, teach you a little gishmak. That is the whole thing, because I want to get it all in a package so that you should get it.

# The Three Things So Far

So we have the three things so far: esrog, volimurkiv, hadar; two categories, psumara and chaser; and the third thing is the shiur. The what? The what? Yes, yes, yes. That is what he said. Why? He holds he does not have good eyesight, you mean? Yes, because that is what it says. That is what it says. You are supposed to check like this, not like this. I am saying, what normal? What do you hold a cup in front of you? Huh? No, I am not saying much. I will tell you a good night. I heard this from an Adria, and again from Rabbi Seif.

# The Sugya of Esrogim

I'm only trying to get you into the sugya. We're going to cover everything from A to Z. You're going to get the whole thing.

Reb Eliezer is very into esrogim; that's his thing. He takes many of them, and you owe it to him, so they say. Something that was there—I heard this from a person who saw it. Reb Eliezer put away twenty or thirty esrogim. No good for him; they weren't good. Rav Moshe is a tzaddik. The tzaddik of Recha walked in afterwards, looked at the table with Reb Eliezer's parcel, picked one up, and said he's going to take them all for MTJ. He wants to give them all to me. He didn't see anything wrong with it. He walked in, looked at it, and said okay.

Reb Eliezer was spending hours. This gush of esrogim was all good. We'll talk about it now. What's the tzurah? I heard it from a person who was there. What's the tzurah? They say in the middle that they were very much not to waste time on it. He says it over every year.

# The Tzurah of an Esrog

You have to know what a tzurah of an esrog looks like. It's an interesting sugya. It's a little bit thicker on the bottom and comes up to a thin point. Of course, you don't sit there with a ruler, even though the hiddur is that it should be that way. All I'm trying to say is that something which is round like a ball is not kosher. That's brought down in Shulchan Aruch. Something which is round like a ball—I've seen it. They have them. People don't know, and they buy them. People don't even know; they sell them right before, and people just buy them. You have to be careful.

Kosher is only the first day. We're going to talk about that. This is kosher; we'll discuss it. We'll discuss it. Again, there are different ones. Some are kosher, some are not kosher. Rabbi said we'll cover it all.

# Psulim and Hiddurim

Now, the next thing you have to know is that it has to be something which is mutar ba'akhilah. It has to be something you're allowed to eat. For example, orlah or tevel—it's not kosher. So when you buy in the store, you don't have to worry about it. Obviously, it was checked for all these things. This is the psulim, the checklist for kosher and pasul.

How about hidurim? What's mehudar? Now we'll discuss the pittim in great length. Years ago, Rabbi Scheinberg told me this. I heard from Rav Shlomo Zalman that it's a hiddur to have an esrog with a pittim. It's a hiddur to have an esrog with a pittim. It's interesting. I think the later days are not into that, that there's a hiddur to have it, you know, some if it fell off before, if it grows without it. But Rav Shlomo Zalman told me clearly that there's a hiddur to have it with a pittim. We'll discuss why. We'll discuss why there is a hiddur to have an esrog with a pittim.

What I mean to say is that even with a pittim is not a problem. Maybe there's a hiddur to have a pittim.

The next thing is that the chotem should be completely clean. The chotem, that's the part on top, should be completely clean—clean, clean. That's among the hiddurim. The hiddur is that the chotem should be spotless. So when you look at an esrog, the first thing you look at is the top, to make sure it's clean, clean. If it's dirty, it's bad; it's cluttered because it's dirty.

Okay, I know exactly. This is not the first day. We'll talk about it in a few minutes. We'll get there.

Now you have to know that the pittim and the ukatzim have to be aligned. Sometimes you look and it's not a curve. That's not a mehudar esrog. Not necessarily pasul, but it's not a mehudar esrog. And then there's something called shekiyos ublitos, which means that it has bumps and it goes in and out. That's good; it's a hiddur. It shouldn't be chalak like a lemon. If it's chalak like a lemon, it's a hiddur. It's a hiddur to have blitos, shekiyos ublitos. If it's completely smooth, sometimes people like it completely smooth, then it looks like a lemon. An esrog is one of the simanim of an esrog: that it has bumps, a little bit of bumps.

# What Hiddur Means

What's called hiddur? The Chasam Sofer in Sukkah, daf Lamed-Vav, says hiddur isn't what people think is hiddur. They walk into the store: that's a nice esrog. You know what they like about it? It fits into their esrog box.

# Hudder L’Halacha and the Esrog Sugya

It matches the cover that he has on his esrog thing. He doesn’t bring this maamar, but that is the maamar he meant. He meant to say that hudder means l’halacha. What is l’halacha? Hudder. So you have to know what is called hudder l’halacha.

Now let’s talk about the esrog v’loimurki. First of all, as I told you, there is no makor for murki. It doesn’t say it anywhere—not in Bavli, not in Yerushalmi, not in Rishonim, not in Acharonim. It is nowhere. Mishnah Berurah, toiv reish mem cheis, sif katan l’samach zayin, starts discussing this whole sugya of murki. That is where it all comes from. So go ahead, Rabbi Yitzchak, toiv reish mem cheis, sif katan l’samach zayin. You with me, Mati? You ready to bar an esrog? With me, or better without me? Maybe you’re scared to bar with me. Or maybe not. I make it sound like I’m an easy customer. I’m not such an easy customer.

Nu, who’s reading? Nu, v’gait lein, Rabbi Leis Agadu. Nu, l’samach zayin. Let’s go, nu. Esrog murki, skimua paiskim. Skimua paiskim? Who are these paiskim? Leimri esrog. Leimri esrog. Clow. Clow. It’s not called in there, yeah, go ahead.

# The List of Sources

Oh, Magen Avraham. Magen Avraham. You like it? So where’s the Magen Avraham then? Yeah, that’s it. It’s not a Shulchan Aruch, it’s not a Torah, it’s not a Shem Shamayim. What? Magen Avraham and the Mishnah Berurah says it’s a good one. Vilna Gaon, Maharal, Malbim, Maharsha, Vilna Gaon, Shach, Smag—it’s like as big a list as I’ve ever seen.

Yeah, because you know why? Because it’s a tumul. He’s saying a good vahr, which, by the way, now that you mention it, I once brought this out. Because it’s such a controversial thing, you look at the Sha’ar HaTziyun and he brings some sefer and this, he doesn’t have to. Why quote such a list? Because it’s not so poshut. He’s trying to convince you, so to speak, that there is a lot.

I have a question for you: if the Rema talks about it, so why was the Rema not mentioned? Why would the Rema not mention it? Because the Rema wrote his sefer after the Rema. I don’t think it’s true. I don’t think it’s true. The Rema, Rabbi says, you can look it up, it talks about the inyan of the murkav. It’s a pele.

# Can You Tell Whether an Esrog Is Murkav?

Now, could a person know if it is a murkav or not? The truth is, they try to bring simanim. They try, they try, they try, and there are simanim brought down and they swear by them. L’maaseh, the Chasam Sofer on Shulchan Aruch says there are no simanim for a murkav. There is no way to know. No, with the seeds—I know that he will bring the seeds. The Chazon Ish writes the same thing. The Chazon Ish was very marked on the inyan of the murkav, and he says there is no way, no way to know if something is murkav. No way.

So how do you ever know if something is not murkav? We’re soon going to learn that it has to be done with a hechsher. The Brisker Rav, it is known, very famous, said he would never make a brachah on an esrog because of the safek murkav. Therefore it is a safek brachah l’vatala. The only reason why he made a brachah is because l’maaseh his father made a brachah, so therefore he did it also. Famous Brisker Rav.

So how do we know that it is not a murkav then? Huh? They have to stay up there a whole year? Avadiah, they take care of it. No, they have trees. They have special trees. I’ll tell you what it was. The Chazon Ish—give me the history. It’s a shame if you went to Tzfas or if you went to Akko, you know the tumul. It’s a whole tumul.

# Teimani Esrogim and the Chazon Ish

Okay, so should I tell the story, or you want me to tell the story? Yes. Originally, the Teimani esrogim were supposed to be a chashash murkav, and that is why the Briskers love the Teimani esrogim. That’s the big thing. Do I take a Teimani esrog? Yes. I have two reasons why I take a Teimani esrog. One is because of the Briskers, and the second reason is, my brother-in-law, he’s a Teimani who sells to Rabbi Guri, and he runs after me every year. For months in advance he’s buying the esrogim for me, and I don’t have the heart not to, so I buy the esrogim from him. So people think we’re mocking the Teimani esrogim, which is true also, but there are two cheshbonos, okay?

Al kol panim, the Teimani esrogim officially were supposed to be not murkav. The Chazon Ish came along and said that that is not true. That was only in the beginning. But years later, he felt that they had mixed everything up, and it is not murkav even on the Teimani. The Teimani is saying it’s not true, the Chazon Ish never said it. I speak to Rabbi Guri—his papers and zachen and gedolim and ma’aseh. It’s the best business. This is it.

# Murkav and the Chazon Ish’s Suraygim

The question is whether it is murkav: mine is murkav and yours is not. That is the business of today. Everyone comes to say that the other fellow’s is not; his is not murkav, and the other one is murkav.

Lema’aseh, they brought a suraygim to the Chazon Ish from Tzfas, and he looked at it, studied it, and decided that it was not a murkav. He ruled that it was not murkav, and then they planted it. That is Braverman’s suraygim; that is where Braverman’s came from. They say he himself went, saw it on a tree, and took it because he saw for certain that it was not murkav. That is the story. Some say that it was not even in Tzfas, but actually from Akka.

Lema’aseh, the Chazon Ish’s suraygim built him a coffin. We will speak about that another time, which one we should buy. There are seven or eight different types of suraygim. If you plant the suraygim from the sea, it becomes a completely different thing.

# The Other Side: Be’er Yaakov in the B’er Halacha

Now I have to tell you the other side of the coin. Now that I told you how murkav is such a terrible thing, let us look at the Be’er Yaakov that the B’er Halacha brings down in Tof Reish Mem-Zayin, dibbur hamaschil Shadayimah. He brings a very nice Be’er Yaakov: once a murkav, if you take the seeds, it is still murkav. Once a murkav, always a murkav. You cannot get rid of murkav. Murkav is a genetic disease; you cannot get rid of it.

Did you see the Be’er Yaakov? Go ahead, go ahead. It takes all the guys and sends them out of business. Royf, royf, royf. Because the way you said it, you were not convincing. You have to be very convincing about this. Where? In the B’er Halacha, dibbur hamaschil Shadayimah. He is saying that with the ones that are bad, they are murkav; these are only self-made, so you go with what is right.

No, I’ll wait. No one wants to look inside, so I don’t have a problem. Where is the Be’er Yaakov? The Be’er Yaakov is in the B’er Halacha. This is one of the biggest B’er Halachas that everybody is busy with, siman with the syrup of roif, 2.36. But it might be a mixture. The problem is that it might be a mixture.

Okay, so after you see this B’er Halacha, he says that you do not have it. It is not roif of them. He says that roif are not, no? Royf, I do not know what you are saying. Did you say it? How do you know that?

You know what the Be’er Yaakov is? It is the last one. We pasken like the last one, because we do not have a lot of B’er Halachas left, you know that? Even if you have a lot of B’er Halachas left. Especially if you have a lot of B’er Halachas, if you have a lot of B’er Halachas, Be’er Yaakov, what is that? I am not telling you, but I am just showing you that he held that most of them are not a problem. The only thing is, I do not know if he says it. I do not remember him saying it.

Okay. So he is saying you have to keep this in mind. The only thing is, maybe the Be’er Yaakov was talking in his time. That is the only thing I remember, because it was a different time already. So it is different, you know what I am saying? It could be that today it is worse. And why do I think it is worse? Because today we graft so many different types of fruits and vegetables. Most of our fruits today never existed years ago.

# Modern Fruits, Vegetables, and Berachos

Amidst Hashem, I am going to give you a whole piece of land. What berachah do you make on a papaya? What? Who said? Why? That is right. I think you should make a damah, maybe. Chickens also. Not so passionate. A lot of it is grafted. It is different. Raspberries—what berachah do you make on raspberries? Haeitz. Make a damah. Not so bad. It is a bush.

But even a bush—what does it have to do with today? Our fruits and vegetables are so hazy. We do not even know if they began on a tree and ended up on a bush, or if they started on a bush and ended up on a tree. Today you walk into a store and you have fifty different shechiyah. What berachah do you make on chocolate? Haeitz. You have to make a haeitz. You have to make a haeitz. Okay, now. This is just...

# Murkav and the Practical Questions

To bring out a point. You don’t know—you have to make an eight on chocolate? No, no, it’s only one cheetah. It’s only one cheetah that you say. No, it’s a joke. It’s a joke. No, no, no, it’s a joke. No, no, no, it’s a joke. Okay, Rabbi, this was just to bring out a point. My head is spinning, Rabbi, my head is spinning. Okay, I have to go to sleep.

Okay, you ready? Listen carefully to what I say. The point is that today it’s a whole business to make murkav. That is the business of the day. So it is very shayach that today the bikuri yakin is not made. That is just my own footnote, a footnote to this bikuri yakin. But you have to know there is such a bikuri yakin. That’s it, okay?

So this, Rabbi, is the murkav—yes, murkav and not murkav. Pastors, you should be careful from the murkav, as they state in Mishnah Berurah. Know that it is a later-day issue. For some reasons, you need a hashgachah. If you look in the Mishnah Berurah, how do you know murkav and not murkav? The way to do it is hashgachah, without hashgachah. Another thing: people have yichus; yichus means they know when they planted it.

If you know something is murkav, is there any discussion? The whole discussion is why. First of all, there are a few shitos in the acharonim which I don’t want to talk about right now, because I’d rather show what’s inside. I don’t want to be the bearer of bad psakim. I don’t want people to say it’s my fault that I said it. There is a big shaylah whether you can make a brachah on a murkav b’dieved. There is a whole shaylah on a safek murkav. And then there is a third shaylah: even according to the shitos that say murkav is no good, there is a shaylah in the poskim—maybe you should take a murkav anyway, like t’shtakach esrig. It is another shaylah. Even according to the poskim who hold it is not an esrig, they hold it is a lemon. But is it a lemon and not an esrig, or is it a lemon and an esrig? Every murkav could be... Yes, that is part of that shaylah. The shaylah is whether you should take t’shtakach. The murkav is not, but this could be different, because it is part of the esrig.

Tomorrow, Rabbi, I’ll show you all this inside, because I don’t want to be the bearer of bad psakim. Like I said, I don’t have a murkav. And then again, I have twenty people sitting here on my door bothering me. I don’t have the patience and time for that. Okay.

You’re laughing. You know, people had taanos because I said over the Yerushalmi. Which one? Yerushalmi. Are you talking? You said over such a Yerushalmi. Which one? You won’t hear you, Mr. Gavali, Yerushalmi—that Moshe Rabbeinu didn’t have a ma’alas baTorah, and therefore... The Yerushalmi says, and therefore, he put first the skandim and then the roshanim. Moshe Rabbeinu did the opposite. So which one came first? The roshanim. Why didn’t the skandim come first? Because he didn’t appreciate the skandim, because they had a... You have to have a ma’alas baTorah to put Yerushalmi, then the pehirus. He probably brought it down. I don’t want to go into it. So a person came and complained how you’re talking. I said... Okay, not now. Rabbi said, I thought you would hear. You see, if you’re not here, you’ll lose.

# Psul Mara and the Color of an Esrig

Now let’s talk about psul mara, the psul, what it’s supposed to look like. So before we talk about psul mara, let’s talk about: does anybody know what it’s supposed to look like? Every book writes the same thing: not green, yellow. Yellow. Tell me, could you find me where it says that it’s supposed to be yellow? It doesn’t say it’s supposed to be yellow. That was very close. This could be a tiny... Every book brings it down: not green.

Okay, so the truth is yellow is nicer. So the truth is it’s not wrong. It’s a Teisvis. Teisvis is—are you ready?—it’s a Shach in Yehudah, about chalba, and he talks about the egg. And he says the egg and the esrig, the inside of the egg and the esrig, when he talks about the egg with the castrates and the eggs—Lamed Ches, Sif Katan Beis, the Shach. Famous Shach. That the inside of the egg and the esrig look the same, because it has to be yellow. The esrig is supposed to be yellow. So it’s a Shach. It’s true. And it’s true it’s a Teisvis in Sukkah. And because of that, all the bichalach... Does that bichalet have it? This book brings it down? It should look like it’ll be yellow? Okay, the only problem is... This is what they say, that it should be yellow. Okay?

# The Color of an Esrog

Hey, can I ask you a question? The Mishnah Berurah—could a bit of lochas or something like that even be a tiny little... Wait, wait, slowly, slowly, slowly. I first want to talk about yellow. I’m trying to understand: what is it supposed to look like when you walk into the store and say, wow, that looks nice? What looks nice? Because it’s yellow? Who said? Maybe it’s supposed to be green.

Let’s talk about the Mishnah Berurah not talking about yellow, because he doesn’t talk about yellow. What he does talk about is green. So let’s look at Tafresh Mem-Heh, se’if katan samach-tes and samach-daled. And actually, Tafresh Mem-Heh, se’if katan samach-tes and samach-daled. Therefore I’m going to say, rabosai, there’s no reason for an esrog to be yellow. I don’t believe it’s true, because the Mishnah Berurah—this is what it says. Yedalach, I don’t make up things. The Mishnah Berurah never said it’s supposed to be yellow. And if you follow the Mishnah Berurah, why don’t you follow him all the way? Hodda, hodda. No, it’s yedalach.

Again, if the Mishnah Berurah didn’t write... You’re saying that because you’re used to it being yellow. If every esrog is green, you answer it. I don’t know. I don’t see it. Don’t you think that the Mishnah Berurah should write to me that an esrog should be yellow, lechatchilah, and the more yellow the better? No, but the Mishnah Berurah was making it anyway to begin with.

Tzaddik, let me tell you something. Yeshiva oilam stands on every os that the Mishnah Berurah writes, and that’s how we follow, and rightfully so. The Mishnah Berurah was like the Navi of the dor before us. Every word is like a nevuah. So if he doesn’t make mention anywhere that we pasken like this, the shitta, who says it’s true? I’m sure the Mishnah Berurah knew the Shach, and I’m sure the Mishnah Berurah knew the Tosafos. No mention of it.

## Green and the Mishnah Berurah

Okay, l’maaseh, what’s the halacha by green? Kasher or not kasher? Again, the Mishnah Berurah doesn’t mention it? There’s no mention! Again, show me where the Mishnah Berurah writes that an esrog has to be yellow. I’d like to see where it’s brought down. It isn’t brought down anywhere. That’s not something to you? To me that’s something very, very strong. That’s a strong halacha. It’s not very green. The only thing is it can’t be very, very green.

Okay, so what’s called very, very green? He’s not even talking about the color, really. It’s just a vice. Whatever it is, it doesn’t say anywhere that the color should be yellow. It doesn’t say. That’s something I think we should point out.

Now, green: it can’t be completely green, right? Says the Mishnah Berurah, even if it is completely green, but if it begins a little bit to have little matziv, a little bit like gold, then it’s kasher. Even if it’s green.

## Rav Chaim Kanievsky בשם the Chazon Ish

So there’s a very interesting psak from Rav Chaim Kanievsky, b’shem the Chazon Ish, that even if it’s going to turn a little yellow after Yom Tov, you don’t have to be concerned that it turns yellow on Yom Tov when you use it. Even if it turns yellow after Yom Tov, it’s already good. Does that mean that we’re pre-? Otazey! It’s already polished. Yerali deChazon Ish havayisim. You don’t have to use it. The Mishnah Berurah says this. Mishnah Berurah says, eichad yadinah reteva ha’esrog givoseh mokoi. It’s kosher now. So l’maaseh, when you take it, it’s green like chvez was. It’s fine.

So you’re saying, because that’s the word, g’mar pri—that’s... To mean that it’s not... That’s the Chazon Ish’s word. The Chazon Ish is saying a word, that since it’s not a question of whether you need it green or not green, it’s a question of is it g’mar pri. Even if later, after Yom Tov—and I don’t even know how long after Yom Tov; they don’t even say how long—I’ll tell you another thing. You hear? Why is that a question? Right?

Says Rav Chaim, what happens if it’s so green, and on its own it’s not even going to turn yellow, but you put in the apples—you know how you do it—and then it turns a little bit? It’s also good, because again, the min of the pri.

You’re saying that Mr. Grubb himself says it’s also good. Where does he say it? You know, you don’t have a... I understand. But it has to be that it’s a little bit yare. No, it will. No, it will come. But when? It doesn’t say it’s g’mar pri. No, that’s the chiddush of the Chazon Ish. It can be even two months from now. It doesn’t say how many times. It says g’mar pri. Okay, go ahead and say g’mar pri. And he’s adding that even if you make it yellow, even if you make it yellow, it’s good.

## The Bach’s View

I have to tell you that this is one shittah. The truth is, the Bach is cholek on this. The like of Bach. What’s the Bach? Because the Bach says it’s not about what? Rabosai? It’s about hadar. Green, green, it’s not pretty. So therefore, good. He brings the Bach.

Wait a minute. Listen. Some people paint it yellow. A lot of times. What? You take a... You paint it yellow? A lot of times. Every year. I pick up the... After I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it. I take it.

# Lachluchas, Chaser, and the Chazon Ish

That is something else. That is because when they do it with the apple, and it takes, the lachluchas comes out. There is a very famous Chazon Ish about that.

If you want, the Chazon Ish has an interesting point. It shows that you used it. What you are saying is a Chasam Sofer. Then there is a Chazon Ish: what happens if lachluchas comes out of an esrog? Is it chaser? Only if I say it, no? No, he says that is not called chaser, because there is no chaser on the lachluchas, only on the Chasam Sofer. It is not lachluchas; it is a Chasam Sofer.

Because the way you test yavesh is by sticking the string in and seeing if there is any lachluchas. I am sorry, because I got excited. I have a godol about Torah sitting here; I should be excited. That is his ra’ayah, the Chazon Ish. A blaze. You hear? A blaze. A blaze. A Chazal. You do not even know how he chapped it in a minute. That is the Chazal’s ra’ayah.

The Chazal’s ra’ayah is that since I put it in, and that is how you test the yavesh, you are pulling out some of the lachluchas. It is like the Chazon Ish: you see the lachluchas, it is yavesh. It cannot be a lachlucha, bro. You will be me’abed your blaze, you will be me’abed your lachluchas. It is yavesh. It is yavesh. That is why it is chaser. Okay. Salaam aleikum. You do not know how happy I am. You do not know how good he is. The Chazal should learn from him.

# Kaparah and Busheh

Listen. After yesterday’s shiur, I got all my kaparah from busheh now. So you helped me in two ways. Let me tell you: halavay you should get as a kapush all your life. The people should give you a covenant that it turns into busheh. There is a different type of busheh. There is busheh that is real busheh. So if you are getting busheh from the covenant, halavay you should get that as a kapush all your life.

B’kitzur, haBayis Ed Arklaner. I am very happy.

# The Bach, the Mishnah Berurah, and the Green Esrog

The Arklaner haBayis says that we pasken like the Bach, and the eylem should know we pasken like the Bach. And even though the Bach, the Mishnah Berurah says not like that, says the Arklaner, ba’al nefesh yachmir kaBach. So it is an interesting point: the green esrog, the Bach says, is not good. I do not know. And the Arklaner, taka, says not to use the green esrog. Green, green. Green, green esrog. The Bach says not to use it.

So how is it different? They tell Reb Yashiv that you should never think about green and not green because they do not exist anymore. The green that the Shulchan Aruch says is not good, Reb Yashiv says that is called a fluke; it is something that is sick. It is not a regular esrog. How is the Bach different from that? The Bach is saying that it is no good. The Mishnah Berurah is saying if it will turn a little bit yellow... not so green, but... Right, but it is a little bit. So the Bach is saying that it is no good even if it will turn. It does not make a difference, because the Mishnah Berurah says it is not good. So what is the difference if it turns or does not turn?

# Maariv and the Ra’ayah from Wetness

Okay, Rabbi, we have to have Maariv. After Maariv, ten minutes, we will just zoom a little bit because I want to... You should walk away with the davar shalom. We are up to page five. Page nine, we will be able to do it in five minutes. That was great. Take it out. You see they are getting out the weapons. That is the ra’ayah, because if it would be chaser, then you just ruined your esrog. It is kosher? Yeah, no, that is what you are supposed to do. It is kosher. There is a little wetness that goes on the meat. So you see that taking out wetness does not make it kosher. That is the ra’ayah. That is exactly right. I understand that. I understand what you are saying. But I am saying that the wetness that comes out is not actually called kosher. It is called a fruit. It is something good. It is a good thing. But it is missing now. The question is whether missing wetness is actually kosher. That is the question. Thank you very much.

# Repeated Chant

Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, hei mamon Yisrael. Duchato abrigado, duchato abrigado, hei mamon Yisrael. Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, duchato abrigado, hei mamon Yisrael.

Duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende, duchato abrigado, Yahuasca, atasim bende.

# Amen

Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

# Opening Exchange

Are you okay? I got a flush chord today.

Aww, that’s a good thing. I had the flush every time. Flush. You like to touch, right?

That’s right, I can feel it. A close-up? Mmm, yeah. Right here? Not too far. On top, I’m good? Are you okay with that? Anna, you’re not in the shot. That’s okay, forget it. Good excuse. I’m fine; I would like some water.

You are getting the flu all the time, right? How come this time you’re not that bad? I hope you’re more than practice. Come on, you should be good. Obviously he is cooking me. Is there any gas on it? Are we going to play? Why is it on now? Even better. Do you mind if we play? Sure. Hey, last day you went, I guess we can play now. Aren’t you going to join?

# Positioning and Movement

Okay, I’m in the spot. You will enter at the end. Go on. We’re on your back then. Got it. Come. This side. I’m on your back. I think so. We have to go. Come here. Why? Oh, hell. I’m him. Yeah. That’s the best that I can go. No, I’ll be fine. I’ll be fine. I stay here till later on. But before you go back on the place, kiss me goodnight. No, you have to kiss me goodnight.

# Closing Exchange

Goodnight. Shoo, shoo, whoop my betel leaves. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Whoop my betel leaves. Yeah. That’s right, I’m back. Any idea where Jesus is this evening? Winning a cup of tea? Amein. Amein. Amein. Amen. Amein Yehushei.

Shukra to everyone that you are here with your material getting ready now. Amein. There’s not much more to say but to take care that you are healthy. Shukra to everyone that you are here with your material getting ready now. Shukra to everyone that you are here with your material getting ready now. Shukra to everyone that you are here with your material getting ready now. Pleasure.

# Shinui Mareh

All right, let’s just talk for one minute about shinui mareh. What is shinui mareh? Let’s take a look at the Mishnah Berurah, siman lamed ches.

There is a famous Chasam Sofer. Reb Yaman was referring to that Chasam Sofer, which says that since the change comes through the mitzvah itself, that is called hidur. The usage of the mitzvah is what gives it the hidur. That is what I was telling you: the Chasam Sofer says that hidur is not only beauty. Hader means the mitzvah itself, the place of the mitzvah, and that is what comes out of hidur. The Chasam Sofer is only mechadesh that it is good for the rest of the days.

If it turned brown, and it is not a mark, then it is mechudash anyway. But my question is: what is called mechudash? Do you think it turned brown because I used it once? I do not know exactly what the Chasam Sofer means. Do you think if you use your esrog once, it turns brown and then you can say that it has to do with the mitzvah? That is how hard you hold. I do not know. It is interesting to me.

If it is at the end of Yom Tov, then anyway there is no problem with hidur. It has to be the whole thing. The Chasam Sofer is a little bit interesting.

# Brown, Red, and the Halachah

Yes. So let us say: I am saying that you hold it turned because it was used one time, two times. That is some type of a streak. But when did you show it to him? At the end of Yom Tov? That I could hear. But I am saying: to come in the beginning of Yom Tov and say that it turned brown because we need to say that without this, and to say that it turns brown because of some sefeik after I use it, that is what he says after the first day of a person. Okay.

Now what happens if you have a little that is red, which is regular brown, not because of usage, turned brown — kosher or not kosher? So what is the halachah? No? Okay. How about red? Let me show you from red that we can understand brown. The Beis Yosef in Orach Chaim, siman taf reish mem zayin, brings a Chida. The Chida says, what type of solution originally sits down? Okay, yes, yes, yes. I am saying I should go to the Chida and marry Esther. Oh, damn. Oh, damn. Well, the other movie, my rest. Oh.

What does he mean? Our name is my rest. What is the pashut meaning? Yes, it is. There is some... So does the Chida mean that it is normal that it could be red, or for characters trying to turn red? What does he mean by “turn red,” or if it is red and now with the color? Well, this is what I am thinking myself. All the way, he means the brown that they are referring to. What else does he mean? Turns red — that is what it means. So what is the halachah? Kosher, not kosher? No.

Go ahead, give me a simple case like a date, red date. No, that is my shaylah. So what is that? That is the peeling? That is what you are talking about? Yes. It is the case that the maris ayin that peeled off and turned keina simko, right? So it is red or brown. What is the halachah, red or brown? I am not talking about real red, real red. Thank you. That is some good. Is that what happens when you brown it and then you rub it and it is mashed with a... what? Higher from this? From this Chida is mashed with it. The brown is this kosher? So I do not know what the problem is exactly. What the sefer is saying is that it turns brown. That is all — it turns.

So why is it different than this? How long is it anyway kosher? I do not understand this. Come on, let us just finish off with bar is shachor. The Beis Yosef in Orach Chaim, siman taf reish mem zayin, says that it is what? Pasul. Mishnah Berurah, seif katan zayin, even tonight, black asterisk. If you find the black asterisk, I would prefer... I would tell you that maybe you... because it is probably a delicious date. It is probably not an asterisk. I do not know who ever saw black asterisk.

Well, I do not know what it is. I do not know if we have it today, but wow. I mean, from the olden times we do not even have the green. Let me tell you another thing. You have to realize that by the time it comes to you, the soferim went through this writing to make sure that it is sellable. It is a string. It is l'maaseh. So you do not really have all these cases. The blacks and the greens — that is what you are going to find? The black asterisk on the market? We can find the black that he is a forsaken. Oh, maybe I wish a son if you want, but that is not more than that.

So pashut, the black is not the same. But that is how you hold with the red and the brown. The Chida should be that any brown asterisk should be kosher, unless what the sefer holds is that if you made it brown, maybe that is where the problem is. If a person would go, for example, let us say you have an asterisk that does not have the pitom because it was grown that way, so that is not a concern because that is derech you do like that. But if you went and you cut off the pitom, then there is a problem. So it could be that the normal brown that turns brown is good, but what turns brown from usage, maybe the sefer could be a problem. Maybe. I got it. It is a big chiddush. Pasul from this Chida is mashma for that. It is okay. Okay, so we will stop over here. We are going to continue with yovesh. We will continue with pitom, mitoch, tomorrow, and then we will go through the fee to say there, the checklist: what is kosher, not kosher, beis Hashem. It is brought another two days, a streak, then we will start live, and then we will do hugs and I love this, and it is a... Why not?

All right. I hope. I mean, the truth is, we were supposed to take care of it, so it is obviously... It is another one of those things that we have to take care of. I do not see it being done in two days. I do not see it happening, and maybe it is for the week after. I am hoping we brought a sefer. It was heavy. It is really very... bekavod, shevarim. Tell me.

# Rav Hotner and Rav Holtman

And he had cash with Rav Hotner. Where does he live? He lives here in Lakewood. You never heard of Rav Holtman? Rav Holtman is from that makom; Lakewood is. He’s from the real Hashem. You never heard of Rav Holtman? You know the Holtman who was an avel and davened for like two north coasts at a time? It’s his father.

# A Bichele Written B’Kitzurim

This is an interesting bichele. You know what it is? It was good work, but very b’kitzurim. Because of the kitzurim, sometimes it loses. I’m going to show you interesting things in here. It’s not every mishlever. I’ll get to that. Wow. I don’t care. I’ve seen a whole bunch.

You can talk of Mayim one night. Tell me what you’re going to do. And also the tikkis. Whatever. We’ll have to talk about the tikkis. You’re going to have to. That’s good. Yeah. I’m saying half and half rules. I should practice with you? We’ll see. Probably, yeah. Probably, yeah.

# Closing the Conversation

Maybe Thursday night we’ll leave Kibbeh. Okay? You’re not going to be Thursday. You’ll be in touch with me. I’m a little bit tired. My mind is spinning. Be in touch. Let’s close this.

Yeah, let’s close this. Okay, good. Yeah, bye. Same to you.