Hilchos Arba Minim: Inspecting Esrogim With a Loupe—Chazazis, Bletlach, and Hadar

Transcript

So when Nosson Tzvi came to the Mir bar park, the Mir minyan, he spoke about nine years ago. He said over from Reb Chaim Shmulevitz something. Till today, leaves such a reishim on me. I never... Chaim was very big. Reb Chaim had very deep hergeshim. Reb Chaim Shmulevitz was full of feelings. We'll discuss it once. All his mussar is really feelings, you know, and a lot of people don't appreciate that. They don't understand it so much. They hear, they look at it as nice vort, a nice vort, a nice this. When I hear it, I'm very moved by it, pshat, because the hergeshim part is genius. There's genius in hergeshim. Someone once masbired to me once that if the hamon am is not holding by those hergeshim, so they're not left with anything. They're not left. So Reb Chaim's Torah is just a nice little vort. It's the gaonus in the hergeshim that you see that either you're holding at that gaonus or you're not. So if you're not holding at that gaonus, Reb Chaim's vort, it's nice, you know, it's simple, it's nice Chumash Torah. It's not nice. You see, that's what I'm trying to say. It's not nice. It's amkus of hergeshim. There are very deep, deep emotional things in there about... and the eibishter. Either you're holding there or you're not. And if you're not, then it's a simple vort, Reb Chaim Shmulevitz. That's why, gadol, someone was telling me that today you have to, you know, speak out all different type of Torah. It's a whole different... So b'kitzur, Reb Chaim Shmulevitz, the following. Nosson Tzvi said over... That Reb Chaim Shmulevitz would pass by on his way to the Mir Yeshiva in the morning, a shustel. You know it. You heard it from me? No, I heard this from Reb Chaim. It's meyutik. You ever heard this maiseh? He would pass by and look into the shustel. So, what is Reb Chaim Shmulevitz looking into a shustel? Maybe he wants to buy shoes for his einiklach. No. You know what he said? I pass by and I see the way the mothers are devoted to the children. I want to take that sight in, because in Olam Haba we're not going to see it. The mesirus that one human being does for another, and to the extent of a mother doing for a child, is a tremendous ruchniyusdike thing. I want to take it in. I heard it from Nosson Tzvi. I heard right out of Nosson Tzvi. I was there, and I can tell you that it left such a royshim on me that he says that in Olam Haba, ein kol tzaddik v'tzaddik, they don't see each other. It's taken in Gemara. There's no contact. What it is, nehenin m'ziv haShechinah. This feeling of human ruchniyus, a kesher, a hergesh between two individuals, is only in this world. It's like Reb Chaim, I wanted to take it in. Here, the ge'inus, the ge'inus in hergeshim. This, rabosai, is the ge'inus people don't realize. How much one could grow from kesher, friends, talmidim, children, family. It's a life. Okay, getting back to the esrog and lulav. Is that the—? After. We'll start the esrog. We'll do it after. Yeah, okay. It's on the wrong... I think he has a piece in the sefer about how if you can't share something with somebody, I think on ... if you can't share somebody's, like, life. Based on the Gemara that says— He can't be, right, chashuv k'meis, because the ani. And I think that's where he brings that Chazal, by banim, by children. You see that if you can't give to a child, you're chashuv k'meis. No, but over there in the... that's even in the next world, you know, even everything, if you can't share it with somebody else, there's something missing. From the ... I think he... Okay, getting back to lulav and esrog, tonight's shiur is: yeta lup or not to lup? Okay? Do you need to sit there with a telescope that you're able to see the stars with, or it's fine if you just look at it? Someone told me that in yeshiva they're selling those loupes. Okay, what we're going to discuss tonight is: is it a real thing, or is it just a, what do you call that, a quick fix, a nice gimmick?

Make money. All right, we'll discuss it. So the first thing I believe you have to know is, what are you looking for? If you don't know what you're looking for, I can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge and you look for that on an esrog. You know, if you don't know, you look from today till tomorrow and say, Oh, look what I found. Yeah, you found an esrog. That's what you found. These are signs of a srog. The second thing you have to know is, even if you know what you're looking for, are you prepared to look for those things? So A, what do you have to look for in an esrog, meaning what are issues, and even those issues do you have to search? So let me begin with the mekor of the shailah. The mekor of the shailah is the Magen Avraham. The Magen Avraham in siman tof reish mem ches, se'if katan tezayin, brings b'shem the Maharit: K'she'ein ha-chazazis nir'eh la'ayin. Chazazis, I told you, was either a blister or some kind of a patch, a foreign malformation which doesn't belong on the esrog, and if it's not nir'eh la'ayin, ela al yedei histaklus, only through looking into, delving into, looking into it, ein leposlo. You don't pasul it, va'afilu b'chaitmo. And even if it's on the chaitem, I told you the chaitem is the top part of the esrog, which is more strict. Problems there are more strict. They're more that you have to be choshesh for. So the question is, if you have a chazazis on the chaitem, maybe it's an issue. No. Something which is not nir'eh la'ayin, ela al yedei histaklus, says the Magen Avraham, is not a problem. Aboysai, it behooves us to look at the Mishnah Berurah, how the Mishnah Berurah brings this down. In seif katan mem-vav, let's read how the Mishnah Berurah brings down this Magen Avraham. That's a beautiful shailah. That's the question of the night. There's a Reb Akiva Eiger about this, and we're going to look in the Mishnah Berurah what the Mishnah Berurah holds about that shailah, okay? So we're going to learn first what the Mishnah Berurah brings the Magen Avraham, okay? Who's reading it? Seif katan mem-vav. No, how does the Mishnah Berurah bring the Magen Avraham? Dafka nir'eh la'kol. Oh, this is shinui marah. It's going on the Mechaber of shinui marah, that any change of color, discoloration, is dafka what, says the Mishnah Berurah, b'shem the Magen Avraham? Nir'eh la'kol. But if what? Ah, because it's so small, so it's not nir'eh la'ayin. Okay, you see, seif katan mem-vav, very important Mishnah Berurah, aboysai. It's one of the key Mishnah Berurahs in all of Hilchos Esrog. Something which is not nir'eh la'ayin, don't worry about it. So I klare a shailah, aboysai. What do you mean? Do you mean that at first glance you don't see it, which means it doesn't stick out? You know, you can look at something and it's boilet. The word in Hebrew is boilet, which means it stands out. Is that what you mean, something which doesn't stand out, you don't have to worry about? Or he's saying more, something which you don't see, even if you look at it, unless you delve into it. That's a different hagdarah, right? Something which is boilet, something which at first glance I look at it... But then there could be something which is smaller than that. But if I look, but if I don't see it unless I scrutinize well said, maybe that's the pshat in the Magen Avraham. How do you learn this Magen Avraham? Does the Magen Avraham mean, k'she'ein hachazazis nir'ah l'ayin at first glance? Or does it mean that it's not seen at all, but you need to scrutinize it to see it? So I always learned the Magen Avraham that it's possible to say that he means you look at it. Does it stand out? Does it strike? Is it striking ugly, the esrog? No, it's not striking ugly, then it's kosher. Yeah, if I look closely, I'll see it. The Rav Shlomo Chanarch learns like that, the Magen Avraham. It's amazing to stick to Rav Shlomo Chanarch. The Rav Shlomo Chanarch says, you know, you check an esrog from, Well, that looks pretty. That's nice. It's good enough. That's all you have. Beautiful. In a second, right? Yeah. Tonight you'll understand the amkus, the havanah behind this. Tonight you're going to walk away saying, Wow, everything becomes clear because of this machlokes, how I believe the Rav Shlomo Chanarch learns this Magen Avraham, and the Mishnah Berurah, I believe, is saying a much more...

What do you call it? Narrow, narrow definition of the Magen Avraham, and that is machmir. I believe. Let's read the Mishnah Berurah now. Mishnah Berurah is saying is, it doesn't have to be that it's striking, otherwise forget about it. It has to be something, if I see it, I see it. I don't have to search, is there something? Do I, do I? Because look how he says, nirah lakol. Nirah lakol would imply what? As long as it's not— as long as it's seen without squinting. But he says further, he goes one step further than the Mishnah Berurah, that what? It's so small that what? That you can't see it. That's a sharper definition, right? One thing is that it's not standing out, but it's not that small. He says more: you can't see it, machmas dakuso. He's learning a much more narrow definition of the Magen Avraham, lichoira, and that is that if I can't see it, then it's kosher. But if I can see it, I can see it. It doesn't have to be that it's loud, striking, and obvious at first glance. So this, lichoira, believes a machlokes. Do what? Okay, read the Sha'ar HaTziyun. That's the Magen Avraham, but look how he brings it in the Mishnah Berurah. I know, that's what I'm telling you. The way the Mishnah Berurah brings it, the wording the Mishnah Berurah uses makes it sound like it's so small that you really can't see it. That you really— he didn't say anything about far and close. Did the Mishnah Berurah in the Mishnah Berurah talk about far and close? He just said, you can't see it because it's small. It's a different, it's a different type. Okay. Now, let's go further. Come on, we have a lot of work to do, and I gotta leave. Huh? Which Chazon Ish? ... No, but it's a... Tzarich histaklus eina posel hainu degam b'karov tzarich histaklus. That's what it means. In other words, even if it's from close, that I have to see it, then it doesn't pass. Which means if something you don't see at all, it's just not seeable, which is what I will tell you later from the Chazon Ish, the hainu. According to this Magen Avraham, it would come out that something I really can't see, period, with my eye, but I need, what, a magnifying glass to look at, is for surely not a sukkah, right? However you learn this Magen Avraham, definitely if I can't see it with my own eye, there's nothing what to talk about. So many want to say, l'choira from here is mashma that if a person cannot see the pesul, there's nothing what to talk about. And this, that you need a magnifying glass, is not going to change. How do glasses fit in? How do glasses fit in? Glasses means that you don't have an eyesight. You have no eyesight without? Which means you have a problem. Your eyesight is a problem, so glasses just restates your eyesight. But if normal eyesight can't see it, the fact that you're magnifying it from this Magen Avraham, l'chol hadeos, no matter how you learn this Magen Avraham, there should be no issue. There should be no sukkah. So where does the issue come from? Right. But it's not a magnifier. Correct. The shailah only becomes... What's the case? Zocher b'kiveiger, the case is psul mara. But if it's psul chaser, and that's what you were saying yesterday, I don't know if you knew the whole sugya behind what you were saying, but the sugya is, we're not looking for psul mara, we're not looking for shachar and lavan and all that. We're looking for what? Something which is chaser. Zocher b'kiveiger, in the end of Drush Chiddush, in the teshuvos in the back, that chaser you do have to search. This Magen Avraham is not going to help you for something which is chaser, because why? If it's chaser, it's chaser. It has nothing to do with what it looks like. It's a pashut svara, it's not so much. If nobody argues on it, but I'll show you why you could argue. Takke nobody argues on it. Okay, so this is Reb Akiva Eiger. Now, so l'choira all they're looking for is chaser. Now I'm going to tell you the flip side of that, okay? You got a lot of times when I see the rabbi use the magnifying glasses by the pitam, which should be a shaila of chaser. Correct. For the black dots, you don't see that. Okay, so let's see a little further, rabosai. Even though... okay. All these people have no idea what they're looking for. They're looking for something...

Let me tell you something. Okay. Don't bring in... Listen to me carefully. I'm not responsible for more than what it says in the Shulchan Aruch, okay? I don't know what people do. It's not my business what people do. Baruch Hashem, they're looking with magnifying glasses on lulav and esrogim and not on other things, dvarim asurim. So let them be busy with that. Well, what's wrong? Baruch Hashem, you know, what should I tell you? But l'maaseh, I'm going to show you clearly that the whole magnifying glass and this year, the whole thing's ridiculous. There's no choser. He stole the show. I don't understand. Are you looking for chaser? The whole chashash is Reb Akiva Eiger with the chaser, because on Tzul Mara, you have this mefurash Mishnah Berurah. There's nothing you want to talk about, right? Not a mile to have not a chaser. I'll explain that also. That's also... It's a hidden problem. Slowly, let me talk. Yeah, second. You know how tired I am? You wouldn't make me suffer here tonight. My brain is so tired. Why is everybody coughing? What's going on here? It's so sick. Very cold. Eimas hadin, huh? The eimas hadin is making everybody sick, huh? Okay. Tell me, tell me, isn't this a mefurash Mishnah Berurah? So we have to stand up for this. Zehlik is a big tzaddik. Right, Zehlik? You're a big tzaddik. Okay. Now, Nachamo Rabosai, please get the Mekoros klar, and then you'll realize, as I said in the beginning, yet to loop or not to loop, all right? And then you'll realize what's behind the loop, what's in the loop, okay? So is it a klara Mishnah Berurah that something that you can't see, there's nothing what to talk about? Unless you want to say that they saw something, and now they want to take deeper and see what is. Read me the Mishnah Berurah one more time. So read the next word. The only thing you can see it is through what? No? What does it say? That you can't see. Mem-vav. See, cut mem-vav, yeah? Nirah lakol. Nirah lakol. So I don't understand. Then there's no problem. It says clearly that something which is not nirah la'ayin, which means your eye can't see it, it has to be nirah lakol. Does every guy have loops walking around, loops on his eyes? Again, is it nirah lakol? No. So do you have to sit there with the loop? No. Yes, any shinui mareh, anything which is discoloration of the esrog. So I'm explaining to you, so I'm explaining to you that even if you're going to take the stricter interpretation of the Magen Avraham, that interpretation is not that it's, okay, it's not strikingly shinui mareh, but it has to be that it's nirah, something that's at least seen. If something cannot be seen only through a magnifying glass, then there's nothing what to talk about. Ah, so that's what you're telling me. So slowly, let's go slowly if there is such a. The kitzur. So we said over that the issue becomes Reb Akiva Eiger, who says that that's only by shinui mareh. By psul chaser, psul chaser is a different sugya. If it's missing, it's missing. That has nothing to do with what you see or what you don't see. Shteitzach, the meidim was maning, loves these chumradike Reb Akiva Eigers. That's his forte. Ale chumros, Baruch Hashem, yevalik, Baruch Hashem. He gave us Yontif. Without him, we wouldn't have all the chumros and all the sugyas and all the Torah of Yontif. He was the one who gave us all the Torah on Yontif. Torahs haMaadim is him. He was the first one to write on the moadim, forty, fifty years ago, wrote on the moadim. He brought all these chumros. Moadim, a beautiful classic sefer. Okay, so the shaila is: yereh Reb Akiva Eiger, nisht Reb Akiva Eiger. We're going to soon see what did the Mishnah Berurah hold about this. Now let me tell you the flip side. The flip side is, you could come and say, only what's nireh le'einayim is called a chaser. Tell me something. By bugs, we don't—

I don't have a sevara that there can be bugs in the water. If I don't see them, you don't see them. Why? Like, nitnah Torah l'malachei hashares. The Ribono Shel Olam gave us two eyes, and He didn't give us magnifying glasses on our eyes. So whatever's called, I see, that's called bug. I don't see it, it's not called a bug. You know who says this? ... all the poskim, including the Aruch HaShulchan, Halacha l'Maaseh, that's called a bug. So maybe by nekev it's the same thing, and I could tell you more. Even the psul of chaser is because b'etzem, b'cheftza, it's not an esrog, it's missing, it's not lekicha tamah. Or is lekicha tamah also din of hadar? Remember we learned that in the esrog itself, if nitla pitam, what does the Mishnah Berurah say? Chaser is kosher from the Rambam in the later days, but it's still a problem of hadar, so al hadar will be pasul. So you see that chaser could have a nekudah of what? That it's not hadar. So how do you know what the psul is? Every chaser, is it because of hadar? Is it because it's cheftza? If it's because of hadar, so you know what I could say? Something that I don't see can't be a chisaron of hadar. If I don't see it, so what's not pretty about it? Might also be a psul hadar; it's not only a psul chaser. Nacha. If something is a chisaron that it doesn't look pretty, right? So then the nekudah might be, nireh l'einayim, whatever people look at. You look at it, it looks pretty, then it's pretty. L'maaseh, according to the way I'm explaining it, it would come out a tremendous chumrah, all right? What happens when you look at it, it looks no good, and then you look with the loop and you see maybe it's a mareh that it looks good. Could I be matir it? So if the pshat is that the loop is mevarer the metzius, all right, so it's mevarer. But if the nekudah ovis is that we follow what it looks like because of hadar, so it's still not hadar anyway. What's the difference? If any guy will say, Hey, look at that guy's esrog. He has a shaylah on his esrog. Even if you can be mevarer with the loop that it's not a problem, maybe that itself is a problem, that people look at it, it's not pretty. You're maskim? No, anytime it's actually mevarer, so you're being mevarer. So I'm saying it's the... maybe the problem isn't the b'etzem the problem. The problem is what it looks like. It's a shaylah of hadar. It's not pretty. So it's not a question of birur. It's a question: is this esrog hadar? Is the Rav Shulchan Aruch zicher learning that way? You know what the Rav Shulchan Aruch is saying? Whatever I look at from where? From this distance. Why? If b'vadai everyone's pasuls it when you look at it, fine. But if everyone looks at it, that's a shaylah, so you're not pasuling it. So how does it help? Because, so what, you'll go around with the loop? By the way, my esrog is a hadar. Here, go look. What'd you gain from it? If you're learning that the yisugya is a sugya b'etzem kasher or the nishkasher, you're right. So the loop could come and be mevarer kasher, not kasher. But if the problem is hadar... Right? So, how this is not going to change anything by looking at a lupa. It is what it is from looking from far. When you look at the esrog, does it look like there's a problem? That it's avadah. Avadah, avadah, avadah. That's the sugya. You know what I'm doing for you, rabosai? I'm cutting through all the clutter. There's so much on the reid, zach. Pashut, pashut, plain and pashut. What's the issue? Is the issue something's wrong inherently with the esrog, or it's just what it looks like? It's not going to help you with a magnifying glass. Could you imagine a guy walks around with a piece of paper, My esrog is beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I went to the rav and the rav told me it's beautiful. The rav. I went to the rav and the rav said—he looked at it and he said, Nah, nah, it looks ugly, it looks not hadar. I looked through the magnifying glass and I saw it was hadar. Reb Elia Shveig, zicher tzaddik livrachah, once told me, I'm meirdik a vort. Ah, he was so smart. What a smart Rosh Yeshiva. Once discussing about a certain chosson, there was a lot of loshon hara about the guy. So he wanted that we should go to a counselor.

We'll find out if it's taka emes, the lashon hara about the guy. So the guy wanted a certificate from the counselor that he's okay, that everything's all right. The Rebbe said, What's wrong with you? You're gonna walk around saying, By the way, do you have any sveikos about me? I have a dudat kashkut. It's right over here. He says it's called a nar mit a shtar. It belongs to you. The Rebbe said that. What's the story? So he told me a story in Europe. It was a story of a chazan. Chazanim, they used to call them naranim. They used to make fun. Why? Because a chazan would get up and make his face—you know, those days the chazanim used to make facial... It was a whole entertainment, that he was screaming and yelling. They used to say, ... There was once a chazan that went to a different city. So he went to the rav and he said, Could you give me a piece of paper that I'm different than other chazanim, I'm not a nar? He would walk around, you see, I'm not a nar. I'm a shteiger. I'm a nar mit a shtar. That's what the Rebbe told me. There was an expression in Yiddish, a nar mit a shtar. Remember this: if it's not hadar, you're loop. It's not gonna make it pretty. It is what it is. If you're gonna come there and then be mevarer with a microscope, it's not pretty. That's the chisaron. The whole guf is the problem. The shaylah is, whenever you have a psul mara, what's wrong with a psul mara? Is a psul mara because it looks mara, it looks bad? So what's the difference looking at a loop? It doesn't help you anything. Again. Something else. The oilam doesn't—there's nothing wrong with the blattel. The blattel is beautiful. What's wrong with the blatt on the chay? What's the change? Huh? It's part of what it is. What are you talking about? Tonight, listen to me. I want to finish esrei tonight because I want to start lulav. I'm going to tell you about a blattel. The oilam doesn't know the Shulchan Aruch. You know, people say things which are keneged the Shulchan Aruch, keneged the Mishnah Berurah, the Shulchan Aruch. A blattel is kosher, kosher, kosher, kosher, kosher. The only time a blattel is a problem, the Mishnah Berurah has a safek, maybe if it's boilet, if it's sticking out. But if it's something which isn't boilet, it's a smooth, it's the same, it's kosher. What is a blattel? A blattel is, you see, it looks like a scab. It's like a piece of—where does it come from? The esrogim, when they're created, they get thorns against the tree, and it creates all the different— and it gets healed. That's called a blattel. It's kosher, and it's kosher, and it's kosher, and it's kosher. Vaz vilst? So them, show the oilam, vaz vilst? Okay, so I'm going to answer you later about that. I don't want to get there yet. Is it mehudar? Okay, we'll discuss that. Okay, we'll discuss that later, because I want to show you the din of the chaytim. I really want to do a lot tonight, so let's move along. Trust me, by the time this shiur is over, you'll understand the wisdom that went into the way I'm giving it to you. I'm giving it to you in a way that it— It should get fatumult, okay? Now, so I told you that l'choira you have to know what's the psul hadar. Is it b'etzem, and then loops could be a sugya to look, to check what's going on there b'etzem, or it's a chisaron in hadar, so that's the shaila. So then the Mishnah Berurah is saying a new vart. You know what the Mishnah Berurah is saying? Something which you can't see is not a psul anyway. Forget about hadar. Something which the eye can't see, like tolaim. Either you can learn like the Rav Shlomo Chanoruch, that it has to do with hadar, so if it doesn't strike you when you look at it, it's hadar, right? Or the pshat is it has to do with what? B'etzem. But if it's not mi'ut, there's nothing what to talk about. I told you that the Chazon Ish held, Rav Adas in his picture sefer brings down that the Chazon Ish didn't check with any loops, it never happened, there's no loops by the Chazon Ish. Let's see what the Mishnah Berurah holds. Does the Mishnah Berurah agree to Rav Akiva Eiger that something you can't see is only hechsher by marah, or it's a hechsher by chaser also? Interesting that he only brings the Magen Avraham where. Does he bring it by nekev, or does he bring it by—? He only brings it by marah. L'choira, you could say that the Mishnah Berurah held only by—, right? It's a very—

The Mishnah Berurah only brings it by hadar, and the meileh by chaser it doesn't apply, and if it doesn't apply, so therefore you have to be machmir by a chaser. The only thing is, rabosai, you have to understand what that's all about. Okay, so even if you're going to say Rabbi Akiva Eiger, which we don't know if we pasken like Rabbi Akiva Eiger, I don't have a פירוש in Mishnah Berurah, maybe for chaser. I mean, all I'm saying is like this: so psul mara, it's ridiculous to talk about looking through a lulav, because either it looks good, then it's good; that itself is beautiful. Anything that you have to sit there and scrutinize, there's nothing to talk about, because then it's a beautiful esrog. So that's the shaylah. I'm just breaking it down. First let's go psul mara. Psul mara is nothing to talk about. פירוש Mishnah Berurah, something which is not seen, it's not seen, that's all, end of story. Ela mai, Rabbi Akiva Eiger. Does the Mishnah Berurah pasken like Rabbi Akiva Eiger? I don't know. Mai d'mazmanim likes Rabbi Akiva Eiger, I don't blame him. He loves all the chumros. I'm not saying. I don't want to put out a disclaimer; I don't mean bad. Okay, l'maaseh Mishnah Berurah doesn't bring it. Only thing is, maybe, the pshat is he only brings it by psul mara, so it's a raya that what? That by nekev you have to know either it is or it isn't. I'm going to show you a Rashash that says differently. Correct, I'm saying by chazazis. The discussion is only chazazis, yeah? By yavesh, which is hadar. So you do the test with the needle. Who cares about the needle? Look at it, because if it's psul hadar, does it look like it's yavesh or it's not? Teretz is, because you... yavesh is not hadar. That's different already. That's different, because yavesh is... Shaylah is if it is what it is. Maybe you could say the same thing here, like what he was saying, is you're looking over here to see, do I see it? But so now I see it from here, but I don't know, klar, is it a speck or is it a black dot? So that's why I'm... You're asking a pashut kashya. You're asking every yavesh, what do you have to check if it's yavesh? As long as it looks like it's yavesh, does it not look hadar? Nice question. Let me think about it. Okay, I hear. But let me go one step further. Let's go one step further. I'll show you—there's a biur halacha about what it looks like. Give me a minute, b'Yarish. Now, so let's take a look at what we're searching for. Most people who search are searching for psul mareis, correct or incorrect? Yeah? Okay. Are you going to show them this Mishnah Berurah? The Mishnah Berurah says there's nothing to look for by psul mareh. Are you going to do that? No. Oh, so that's what I'm saying. So let's take it apart. When you walk into a store and you start looking, the only thing you're looking for is maybe, is there a chaser that you can't see. Now, first of all, what's the shiur of chaser? You have any idea what the shiur of chaser is that's pasul? Can we do this after? I'll tell you why. Because I'm going to get, after, if I don't finish a certain amount, I'll walk away saying, you know something, I didn't do my job properly. And then I'll be nervous the whole day that I didn't do my job properly. All right? So give me the satisfaction that I got it all out, and then you can ask me whatever you want. And even though I promised I have to leave right after Maariv, I'll stay after Maariv, okay? No problem. Now, tell me, now that you're looking for a chaser, let's discuss what is it. A yaveish, a chazazis, a mareh shachor—these are all shinuyim in what? Shinuyim of mareh, okay. Do you have any idea what the shiur of a problem of a shinuy mareh is? Does anybody have any idea what the shiurim are? So kipshutai, it's only by roiv. Psul mareh is that it has to be roiv. Let's take a look. By yaveish, how much? A little. It has to be berubo, right? All the psulei mareh is berubo. What happens if it's in two or three places? It's shayach to be b'mi'ut also, because it has a problem in numer, and this is Mishnah. So that's what we're talking about. Mishnah Berurah seif katan mem-ches. Mishnah Berurah seif katan mem-ches says clearly that when it's in two or three places, the shinui mareh, then it could be even b'mi'ut. So are you looking at three places? What are you looking at? I just want to know what you're discussing. No? Let me just tell you what I'm trying to ask you. When you look at an esrog, where are you looking? Oh, who said chotem? You just said chotem? Why? Because everything else is nothing to look at, right? Because it has to be berubo. That's exactly what I'm trying to get at. Understand what you're looking at. When a guy comes with a loupe and starts looking over here, he has no idea what he's looking at. They're all looking at the top. They all look at—yes, is that true? Oh, really? All the rabbis with the— They're just looking at the top. Okay, so the rest is no— Tell me. I don't understand. It has a shiur. It has a shiur. No, but—why are you going to say there's three?

So again, if it's with a microscope, it doesn't look minumer. Where did I get this from? The Bihalacha says this. Bihalacha says even by yavesh, in three places, so l'choira it should be pasul. B'vad b'miut. But l'maaseh, you can't see yavesh so much, so even in minumer it's not a problem. This is the Bihalacha on the sugya of mem ches, se'if katan mem ches, no? Se'if katan mem ches, look, the Bihalacha: yavesh, but l'maaseh when I look at it, it doesn't look bad. But please read it before I start getting nervous. Go, nu. It doesn't necessarily consider nimur. Why not? What do you mean, it's in two or three places? Because you have to see. Minumer means it looks spotted. But if you need a magnifying glass to see those three spots, so you're going to tell me what, that it looks minumer? That's called looking minumer to you? What are you talking about? If you can't really see it, if you can't see it, it's not a minumer. So forget about—if it's not roiv, there's nothing what to talk about. Ela maai, in two or three places, there's still nothing to talk about, because you can't see it. Only problem becomes where in the chaitim. Look and see if you're beis, that in the chaitim, b'kalshu, yeah? Nu? The chaitim. The kalshu. So the chaitim says, so again, when you start searching your esrog, all right. If you're looking at the bottom, if it's that small that you got to sit there and put it next to your eye even, there's no such din. Mishnah Berurah tells me if it's not nira, only al yedei histaklus heitev, you got to sit there and analyze it, forget about a loop. Mishnah Berurah, the first Mishnah Berurah we learned, does the Mishnah Berurah say loop? You don't even talk about a loop. He does not discuss a loop even. He's talking about even with your eye, you have to sit there and scrutinize it. There's no halachah. So shinui mar'eh, no reason to scrutinize. So if it's anywhere batel chaitim, is there any point of looking at your esrog like this? Answer the question. No. No. So slowly, let's discuss chas. But al shinui mar'eh, when you sit there, there's nothing, only by the chaitim, okay? Tell me, how big is the chaitim? How big is the chaitim? What is the chaitim? Okay. Three. So let's look at the Shulchan Aruch, se'if tes, and the Biur Halachah that minimizes what a chaitim is, and you'll start realizing that basically just the shipua, just the curvature on the top, is what to discuss about a kol shehu. A loop is not more than a kol shehu. So the loop, anything about a loop is only an issue where? Nu? By shinui mar'eh, by a chaitim, okay? Yeah, good. Nu, read, nu. Where it starts downwardly down, or up slope. That is, that's okay. Where is the chaytim? Where is the— that's a very good question. I don't know, but one thing for sure, it's just the curvature, the top curvature of the esrog. Top curve. That's the chaytim, that's the bir halacha, that's how we pasken, that's all it is, okay? So any guy who's looking anywhere on his esrog besides for the top, פירושו בכלל לא סדר. He has no idea what he's talking about, okay? Now let me show you the next thing. Let me show you the next thing. Just this little curve, little thing, that's it. That's the chaytim, that's it. This is the chaytim, the curvature. Show, show, show. No, points to that. Okay, so go, go, go, show, show. Okay. Now what about a nekev? Tell me, a nekev that you can't see, would you call it a nekev? There's a מרדכי Rashash, you hear? There's a מרדכי Rashash. Rashash says that a nekev that you can't see is not called a nekev, and he says a מרדכי thing. If you take a pin and you put it through, that's not called a nekev.

So no. We had a shaila, right? We said no, right? Two things we said: it's not a chaser, and we said it's not a nekev. Why? So if you take a look, says the Rashash, because the minute you put a pin in, the liquid fills it up. When it gets filled, so you can't see it. It's not niker. It's a mefurash Rashash, Sukkah daf lamed-vav. All right? It's תלוי in how you make the nekev. Do you go through the top or you go through the side? For the bedikah, some two shitos. So I had a shaila like this. Maybe Reb Akiva Eiger is maskim to that, that any nekev that you can't tell is not really a nekev. Or is Reb Akiva Eiger saying that the Magen Avraham doesn't apply? There's a very big difference between a nekev that I can't tell, or a nekev I can only tell with scrutiny. I don't know if Reb Akiva Eiger held that a nekev that you can't see after scrutiny is still called a nekev. It makes sense not, right? So anything that you have a loop, you still don't have a raya from that Reb Akiva Eiger with nekev. I'm sorry. The Velt is busy with the Reb Akiva Eiger. Reb Akiva Eiger never spoke about loops. That's not what Reb Akiva Eiger talks about. Reb Akiva Eiger just says something that I can't see with the scrutiny, meaning this that we say that if it's scrutiny, it's not called seeing, that Magen Avraham says the Reb Akiva Eiger doesn't apply to a nekev. It doesn't apply to a nekev, okay? But it never said that a nekev that you can't see, period, is called a nekev. That something you can only see with a microscope is called a nekev. You don't have ... So even the loop according to Akiva Eiger, it's a chiddush nifla. And I have a mefurash Rashash, which I implore you that I think you should all go look up, that the Rashash says—you want to see it inside? You want to see the Rashash inside? Where is it? I see you're not with me on this one. I'd love to see the Rashash inside. Oh, okay. No, what I mean to say is, maybe I'm saying such a controversial thing that the oilam doesn't... Let's see the Rashash. Bring the Rashash. I'm not saying that. So you want me to say it in a different nusach? Would that be better? I will explain that. I will do both sides of the coin. Even though he didn't speak about it, the metzius, if it is chaser... So what is that? Why do we call chaser? You know, the definition of chaser can mean only what we see is a chaser. At what point do we say it's... You know what? You know what? So do me a favor. No. Read the Rashash. Go ahead. I am... Get up. You know what? Get up. Get up. And say it. I am... ... only puts sin and... Say it again. ... That's what I did, you see, because I already put you the shoyver b'tzidoi. Maybe because it got filled up. But the tach is a real nekev and it's missing. Even though I can't see it, it's still called a nekev. It's not 100% muchach, but it's something to look at. Now send it to Rabbi Yom. Rabbi Yom wanted to see it. I saw this Rashash, lamed vav, and when I saw this Rashash, I go, it's gevaldig. It's gevaldig what Shaytan... I'm ready to convert. Something which is not niker, who said it? Yeah, yeah. Lamed vav, okay. Now, you told me bletlach, yeah? Okay. What are bletlach? Bletlach are kosher. Taf reish mem ches, סעיף י״ג. Go ahead. Who's reading? Mechaber, taf reish mem ches, סעיף י״ג. You saw it? You saw it? What is it? It wasn't mentioned yesterday. Of course not, because it's kosher. There's a whole shayla if it could be minumer bletlach, which means because you have full of bletlach, yeah? So the Gra, the Rabbi Yoshef paskens that there's no problem. You know why? Because bletlach is kosher, so what's the difference? It's not minumer. If you have many colorful spots, for example, you have yellow and green and gold, it looks like a star-spangled banner, your thing, from different colors of yellow and gold and green, it's all kosher, says Rabbi Yoshef. So what?

He's a o marisksheiris, and when the marisksheiris doesn't make him a number. I'm with you. Okay. He's saying what I pre-warned this, I pre-warned, that maybe he only means is, did it fill up, mashma if it didn't fill up, that it would be even if I didn't see it. But do you see what he says? That a nekev is the taich something which is niker. He didn't say a nekev is something which is b'metzius a nekev. But you could hear what I want from this Rashash? You don't know what I want from this Rashash. Not really, huh? I hear it more as a svara of niker. It's impossible to say even with a hole that... Which one? The lachluches? Lachluches. Yeah. If it filled it up, right? Would that be there? I just want to know. I don't know. I'm not sure. There's really not so clear, this Rashash. The way he begins is like an open statement: anything which is not niker is not called a nekev. And then he speaks about filling it up. So what does he mean, that when it fills it up, so even though it's not niker as a nekev, it's okay? Meaning, let's say I can't tell it's a nekev, but it didn't fill it up. Yeah, it becomes the juices, of course. The juices, the juices. There's juice, lachluches that comes back. Okay, let's go one step further. You ready? Bletlach, bletlach, bletlach, bletlach, bletlach. Nu? Bletlach. Okay. So what about bletlach? You said bletlach are no good. You said that, right? No, I said— It's machlokes you and the Shulchan Aruch. Okay, so let's discuss it. Taf reish mem ches. Go ahead, Reb Yoel, read. Taf reish mem ches, and then you'll do the Mishnah Berurah, sif katan nun. Don't worry, I know about that Mishnah Berurah. Go ahead, nun. Sif yud gimmel. Yeah. Taf reish mem ches, sif yud gimmel. Go ahead. Yeah. First the Shulchan Aruch, yeah? Yeah. What does he say about bletlach? The Rama, nun? Moil, moil. If you put the— the Rama calls it moil. That's what Mishnah Berurah brings about. Yeah, go ahead, nun. Says the Rama, if moil— moil is that, that— yeah, that's bletlach. Right? Since it's two sevaros, he says. One sevara is that— nun— two sevaros, right? ... v'yesh mi shekasav d'yesh l'hachshir ... ... b'achar, regilim lihyos harbeh kach. It's normal that it should be this way. Okay. Says the Mishnah Berurah, sif katan nun. Says the Mishnah Berurah, sif katan nun, ... v'yesh ... afilu gedoyim, even if it's bigger. ... What did you just say? Afilu what? What does it say? Does it make a difference if it's in the chitim? No. So who's screaming that in the chitim bletlach are no good? No? Okay. V'aim b'Acharonim ... but it doesn't say one word about the chitim. It's only b'gedoyim. The Mishnah Berurah says there are Acharonim— it's not even clear. Is he paskening like those Acharonim? The Rav Shulchan Aruch doesn't pasken like that. He says even if it's gedoyim, who cares? Who said one problem, chaytim? What do you want? The Mishnah Berurah never said it's a problem. I don't want that. Vaz vilst? You decide it's a problem of hiddur. Where'd you get it from? Okay, so let me tell you what the rule is. You feel it, okay? If it's smooth together with the esrog, then it's not gevayin. Even if it isn't, you have one צד, maybe, maybe, v'yesh acharonim that he's not machria klar. You see acharonim, the Mishnah Berurah klar, yesh acharonim that say it's a problem, okay? Rav Shlomo Nar Zicha says no problem, okay? Now, what happens if most of it is bletlach? So there's a Chasam Sofer that says then it's not hadar, because then it's minumer with bletlach. Rebbi Yoshev says—listen to me carefully, I gotta teach you the truth. You want to know the Eibishter's hiddur, zeh Keili v'anvehu? Of course, get a beautiful esrog. Who said not? I said you should get a beautiful esrog. But I'm saying, no halacha, no l'maaseh, that bletlach—A person came and said bletlach on the chaytim is no good. Is that what it says? Is that what it says? Is that what it says? It says not like that. Shteit nit azoi. Bletlach on the chaytim. I don't blame you. Let me tell you.

I feel I don't blame you. I love you. I'm crazy about you, okay? Chas v'shalom. I don't blame you. They frighten you with the esrig that everything is no good. It's not true. What should I tell you? It's nishtemes. It's a nishtemes. Then I have another question for you, and this zicha holds a emes l'amito, yeah? Let's say there's no problem. How could it be a din of zeh keili v'anveihu with the lulav? That's zicha if you can't see, you can't see. Again, if it's kosher, it's kosher, right? Now you come, you tell me, up in l'maaseh, mehuda, yeah? Something that needs a lulav to be seen, how could you tell me it's a chisaron of zeh Keili v'anveihu? Can you explain it to me? So what are you talking about? What is the olam talking about? Now I'm going to ask you a third kasha. I'm going to ask you a third kasha. I just told you chaser on what? You know what chaser? Missing a piece. Something that you can't see is not so pashut. That's called a chaser. And even the Rabbi Akiva Eiger that they bring, Rabbi Akiva Eiger never said you can't see it. We said like this: anything which is psul mara, there's a Mishnah Berurah, there's nothing to talk about. It's kosher. There's nothing to discuss. Ela mai, your problem is that it's a nekev. Even nekev, even nekev, all right? A, who says a nekev that you can't see is a nekev? Rabbi Akiva Eiger never spoke about something you can't see. He spoke about the Magen Avraham story, something that you can only see with scrutiny, which is the Magen Avraham. Nekev is a chaser. Nekev is a chaser. Now I want to bring out another point. Today we're talking about Shabbos is the first day. Chaser is kosher, the second day. So what are they selling loops and yeshiva for? You want to explain me? Is there a problem with... What are they selling loops and yeshiva for? What? Do you agree with me? You're saying that it's a problem of chaser? You're maskim that at best it's a problem of chaser? That's what you're telling me, right? He's not maskim. You know why? Because the loop is so part of the esrog, it's almost like a set. Arba minim with a loop. Come together with the loop. Maybe. Maybe not bal tosif, because it's a chelek of the loop. It's a chelek of the mitzvah. Tell me, the talidanim of Morocco, they used to look at esrogim with loops? No, right? Do you use loops? Rabosai, rabosai, rabosai. If you hold it's a nekev, at best it's a chaser. On the second day, a chaser is kosher. Ramo, we learned this klal, right? The only thing is, what? The Mishnah Berurah, that the pitam is a problem because of hadar. You're going to tell me something you need a loop to see is a chesaron hadar. I'm asking, does that make sense to you? Whatever it is, but that's where it comes from. How could something which you can't see be a chesaron hadar? Take your esrog, you feel it. Anything which is not bolet is nothing what to talk about with the loop. There's nothing to discuss. Ela mai, and I wanted to tell you this: the black dots that you're discussing, I told this to you yesterday b'shem Reb David, it's not the case of shinui mareh. Those are specks of dust. So this is an interesting thing. If for bletlach, if it's high, then it's not a—it's a problem. For bletlach, one side may be in a mishtaburah. For the black dots, it's punkt farkert, it's the opposite. If it's high, if you feel it, then it's dust. It's not part of the esrog. The only time is when it's smooth. Then you have a problem of maris shachar. By the choytem it would be a problem, and only if you can see. Rabosai, this is the emes la'amito. I'm sorry, I'm sorry to bust the bubbles. This is the truth. Learn the Mishnah Berurah. Learn the Mishnah Berurah. I'm not making—I'm telling you this is what it says. What should I do? But it cannot look nice if it's a nice esrog. That's what an esrog is supposed to look like. Ten black all over the esrog, and about nine—no problem. Eight, ten black. You might have a problem in umer, maybe. You might have a problem in umer. But if it's a marikosher, ... says a gevaldige vort, how could maris keiros make menumar? It doesn't make menumar. Yellow and a green and a—it's all maris keiros. This is halacha l'maaseh. I wish you all a beautiful esrog, that everybody should stand and say, Ah! Gorgeous! Gevaldig!

Yeah, nice.