Hilchos Borer: What Counts as Pesoles—Edible Bones, Chicken Skin, and Filtering Water

Transcript

Today, we're going to go through the sugya of oichel and psoles, what's called oichel and what's called psoles. So first of all, when the psoles is merubah. Normally, byer works that the oichel is merubah, there's a lot more food and much less psoles, except maybe by fish. Sometimes fish has so many bones that it's like mostly bones. That's if you're doing a real psoles. By oichel and psoles, most cases, psoles is based on what you don't want, right? So you don't want the bones of the fish, and sometimes it's mostly bones. I'm saying you have two different types. Different types. In regular oichel and psoles, every time you have oichel and psoles, the norm case is that the oichel is a lot more than the psoles. What would happen if it's the reverse? The psoles is a lot more than the oichel, and it's much more difficult to remove the oichel from the psoles, right? Since it's all everywhere psoles, and you're having to keep on to remove the oichel from its different parts, so what happens when it's tircha yeseira to remove the oichel? So there's a shitas haTosafos. The Tosafos says that since the oichel is merubah—I'm sorry, the psoles is merubah. And it's more tircha to take away the oichel. Halacha is, it can't be borer, because the borer of the oichel is the borer. That's the classic borer. So for sure you can't do it. You can't do anything. This is a shitas haTosafos. Okay. Let's say fish. A perfect example. Let's say fish is mostly bones. Sometimes, let's say you have herring, and the herring is mostly bones. So you can't take away the pesoles, because there's a halacha of pesoles mitoch oichel. The heter of oichel usually is because derech achilah. But if it would be derech berirah, says Tosafos, it's asur. So the Biur Halacha brings this Tosafos down. Biur Halacha, ha-borer oichel, in siman tes, brings it down, and he says that we don't pasken like this Tosafos. Yeah. There's a few of them. Let me see which way he brings this Tosafos. What? You have it? Which one? It's the beginning, the first one? First Biur Halacha. One half following it. Ah, okay, here we are. No, wait one minute. Yeah, you're right. Here it is. It's right here. V'hinei me'lahitkayem mechaber shitas haTosafos, נכון. The sfila d'oichel min hapseilos hu dafka k'she'ochel merubah al hapseilos. Hoyim hapseilos merubah, so then it's derech livror haoichel. U'vichlal, mashmad lo svira lei kein. Vchein mashma l'kaman b'siman daled, bagos. L'choira what the Biur Halacha is trying to say is that we don't pasken like this shitas haTosfos. The normal derech is to take the oichel, so that would be derech berirah. So let's say when you have a fish, that it's much more easier to take out the oichel—I'm sorry, the pseilos—than the oichel. The oichel is complicated because it's all full of bones and things. According to Tosfos, you can't do anything. But according to the Mechaber, you could. That's how the—I'm just saying, l'maaseh there is a shita. Why am I telling you this? For two reasons. One is that the Chayei Adam is cholek on this Mishnah Berurah. The Chayei Adam paskens that you're not allowed to—and there's a sefer, Zichru Toras Moshe, that the Chayei Adam wrote. It's a small little kuntres that he wanted people b'kitzur to learn Hilchos Shabbos. So in both places he takke says that there's no eitzah; you're stuck. Shitas haTosfos mechayev that you can't eat the oichel, and you can't eat the pseilos, so you're stuck. So I guess these type of fishes would be a problem. So you can come and say—

Okay. True, this Mishnah was never really machria; he just says from the mechaber is mashma that he doesn't bring it. I want to tell you a peldike thing. You're gonna jump off your chair. There's a sefer Machane Yisrael. You know who wrote the sefer Machane Yisrael? Tzchai. It was meant for the army, for those that went to the army, a guide. And over there he writes clearly, clearly, writes clearly in Machane Yisrael that p'saulos merubah, like shitas ha-Tosafos, you're not allowed to, you're not allowed to. I don't have them, this, the kol kisvei. Maybe someone has, maybe here. You have the kol kisvei, you have it at home though. Bring it. Okay, tomorrow. Can you bring it tomorrow? Shleim l'hatzadik. The kitzur, the question is, how do you explain the Mishnah Berurah and Machane Yisrael? So I have this, I have some of my notes. This is one of the things I never understood. ... Machane Yisrael k'shitas ha-Tosafos. No? Unless he held for the army, you have to be, l'choirah, for the army you have to be more meikel, not less meikel, less machmir, l'choirah it's a pele. Okay? So this is a kasha, kasha. Machane Yisrael paskens not like l'choirah, unless you say he never paskened over here. Okay, okay, so that's how I spoke it out. You see, I was being careful. I actually ... kind of talmude b'yadi. We have a lot of work to do. Sit down. Dude, actually, the Yichye ... Yechiel ... The what? The ... Yechiel ... Rashi says, Yichye b'yirasecha. Remember, Rabbi asked on Sukkah, what's the lashon by the sukkah? It says that we should be chayim b'yirasecha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should be chayim ... b'yirasecha. Yichye b'yirasecha. And the pshat is, lifanecha means ... b'yirasecha. Wow. ... what we spoke. Yeah, yeah. Ooh, it's good, it's good. Plus, I love when people call me up with raayos that ... I called Rabbi ... but the phone was probably very busy. Yeah, could. So I figured, you know ... Who's the shliach? ... All right. ... lifanecha. He should live and be well with the shliach. The problem was that you were assuming that it was a chashuv Yid, so you already—the whole shlichus started off on shaky. Yeah, but the shliach didn't come the other way. Friday was a rough one. The guy didn't show up. It was a rough day, Baruch Hashem. Okay, now. Friday I took off the rabbanish clothing and I put on an apron, rabosai. Cleaned the floor and cleaned the floors. I think like what you said originally, if the Mishnah Berurah doesn't say anything and the only Biur Halacha is saying the mechaber is ... hold that way, and also ... They'll kill me. They'll kill me if I said it. They'll kill me. That's pretty clear that he does. Now I'll tell you what—I'll show you how I like to learn. I challenge you. Show me one sefer, anybody who'll quote the Mishnah Berurah as saying that it's aser. Everybody says it's mutar. The Mishnah Berurah brings down we don't pasken like the Taz. That's because they don't know about the Taz. Okay, so let me tell you. Being a Chofetz Chaim, you know, from the family of talmidim of the Chofetz Chaim, we used to learn Chofetz Chaim al haSeder. Who touches machnis Yisrael today? So let me tell you. If the pesoles is merubah, so there's a shitas haTazus that the oichel becomes the borer, so you're not allowed to take the oichel, because the pesoles merubah is it's harder to take the oichel, so it becomes borer. It's derech borer. L'maaseh, the Biur Halacha brings down that we don't pasken like this. Not that we don't pasken, whatever, but from the Mechaber's mashma that he doesn't bring it down. Chayei Adam brings it down l'halacha. According to Chayei Adam, if it's pesoles merubah, you're not allowed to be borer the oichel. Fish with a lot of bones in it, every piece is a bone, you got trouble. You got trouble. You can't even take the oichel. I don't know if the Chayei Adam would say b'peh, I don't know how, maybe borer b'yad would be a problem, but through the peh would be different if you can put it in his mouth and spit it, maybe, I don't know, could be. L'maaseh, the Chofetz Chaim in Machaneh Yisrael paskens klar. He wrote for the army people that borer pesoles and oichel if the—

himself, miruba d'ochlos aser. Tell him why he does that. Now, then I go back to the Biur Halacha that says it; he never really said it. All he said is that from the Mechaber's mashma, did he machria one way, and I, in my mind, he didn't want to pasken כנגד החיי אדם. I believe that the Mishnah Berurah saw the Chayei Adam, he didn't want to pasken, so what did he do? In the Biur Halacha he wrote that that's from the Mechaber's nitmashma. It's mashma he didn't bring it. That was an eidah way of saying, nitazeh pashut. But then in Machanei Yisrael, maybe, you know. So why was he more machmir for the army? I always thought maybe, you know, they need zechusim in the army, and you have to—could be, could be, could be the Chofetz Chaim was mesupak on the whole din, so he was takke machmir in Machanei Yisrael. He wrote Machanei Yisrael before Mishnah Berurah, or after? I don't know. I don't know. I pashut don't know. Whatever it is, it's something. I mean, something's going on here. In general, knowledge of Machanei Yisrael is he more meikel or more machmir? Usually he's more meikel. I would say, misvara, he should be more meikel, because they can't do it. They say, you got to tell you what— The whole Machanei Yisrael l'choira should be more meikel, to make it that you can manage. Yeah, I know, okay. But I have to speak it out, this. I have to speak out. Something is going on here, all right? The rest you'll figure out yourself. Something is going on here. Okay, so that's when the psoles is merubah l'ochel, okay. What happens when the psoles is not completely taken out? You're leaving some psoles there. Take out some of it, and you leave some of it. So the truth is, you made it better, huh? Pashut shailah, pashut new shailah, new shailah, new shailah. Regular case. Yeah. So the Chazon Ish asers this. In other words, if you leave some of the pesulos, it doesn't help. No, regular case. Pesulos and echad, new case. Whatever you left, you didn't fix the whole thing by taking out all the pesulos. You left some of it. No, the regular case, take out all of it. You take out all, right? So what happens if I leave some? So the Chazon Ish says that it's aser. Chazon Ish says such a case is aser. The Meshech HaChochmah, Igros Moshe, chelek daled, siman ayin daled, Boir, seif katan aleph, says that it's mutar. Even if I leave a little pesulos, it's mutar. What's the shita of the Mishnah Berurah? No? So there really is no Mishnah Berurah, not at least in boirer, but there is a Mishnah Berurah, rabosai. If you learn many of these Mishnah Berurahs, you come up with interesting stuff. There is a Mishnah Berurah in shin mem. Mishnah Berurah brings down, talks about tzayris. Where's that source? I think so. I know, we have to switch anyway, I just don't know. Tzuras hadaf makes me nervous. The halacha is supposed to be right here. This is like that, this must be like that. You know, let's find... I'll find this with the Mechaber. Here it is, Chut shel tefirah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Haloches. It's shin-mem. It's, in the lacking page, maybe in yours, page kuf-pei-ches. It's talking about hairs. A person has two sides, one white and one black. So he picks the white from the black, okay? Melaket levanos mi'toch shechoros. Afilu b'achas, chayav. What are you chayav for? Says the Biur Halacha, yesh l'ayein, im davka k'shehair achas. Maybe it's only when it's one hair. Sheb'zeh mo'il l'kuto l'hisyapeis. By taking out one, it looks nice. Why? Because if you have a beautiful black beard, and you have one white hair, it stands out. It looks nice. Al kein chashiv melacha. Ma she'ein kein k'shenish'ar od harbeh. What case is this? That's our case, no? You left some of the pesilos. You left some of the white hairs, right? Oy, or maybe, efshar mikom makom misyapek k'tzas. Even if it helps a little bit, it's already a problem. So this is the classic case of borer with leaving a little pesilos. So for some reason, it's not where, it's not in borer. So the Biur Halacha gevaldik, huh? You don't have it? It's the first Biur Halacha. Show me the Biur Halachas. Melaket levanos mi'toch shechoros.

That's right, so maybe it's talking about a woman who's doing this. I gave example of a beard. That's why I got confused. The only reason why I gave example of a beard is because I wanted to make the standout, like, you know, beautiful. I think the Gemara gives example of two areas. Is it the plucking hairs from those two areas or all areas? It doesn't make a difference. The question is, two areas. Beged ishah. Not for beged ishah. This has nothing to do with beged. This has to do with anybody that... for pretty. I know. I'm sorry for bringing an example that confused. Now, so the question is, the question—okay, so you're right. Hizaharu chachamim b'divreichem. You have to be careful, because people are going to come and say, Ah, I said you're allowed to pluck hairs from beards. Chas v'shalom. Hinei b'Yerushalmi—today you have to pluck the blacks from the whites, because the white beard isn't better. Okay. V'hinei haYerushalmi, perek klal gadol, l'inyan boirer. Ah, you see? L'inyan boirer, amar Rav Yehudah: ha-yoshev al hakri u'boirer kol hayom, ein mischayev. U'pirush sham hamefaresh, lo ho'il klum. Didn't gain anything, she'adayin yesh shoires, because it didn't help. He was boirer kol hayom, but he still left the shoires there. So that's what? Leaving pesoles. Classic case, yeah? So what's the halacha there? Yoshev al hakri u'boirer kol hayom, ein mischayev. You're not chayav. V'l'choira hu hadin binyaneinu, l'fi haYerushalmi. So everybody quotes this b'halacha. You see the Yerushalmi. Tell me, what do you see in this Yerushalmi? That you're allowed or you're not allowed? What is this b'halacha trying to say, you could or you can't? It says you're not chayav. Maybe it's aser. You're holding. It doesn't say. There's no way how to read this b'halacha. You can read it two ways. You can read it two ways. You can read it two ways. Chatichi, it's not ... a maaseh borer. Why? It's time to do borer. It's not chatzi shiur. No. I'm not doing borer. It's not borer. It's not chatzi shiur. Chatzi is only if I finish, and if I didn't finish. How about yoy? You're busy ... How would you read? So how would you read? So you say it's asur. Okay, what do you say? How would you read this Biur Halacha? Is he saying mutar? What's he trying to bring out from this Yerushalmi? Why would he say ...? He's quoting the Yerushalmi. Ein mischayev. So maybe ein mischayev means completely patur. I saw the Aruch HaShulchan speaks out: patur, aval asur. It means ein mischayev, but avad it's asur. Okay. So, choirah, this is the machlokes, Rav Moshe and the Chazon Ish. Rav Moshe comes along and says that it's mutar, because he was learning, unless he died. He didn't know before. Yerushalmi and before ... it's very hard. ... Rav Moshe, the teshuva is atzal couldn't have been. He's not banning whether it's mutar or asur; he's banning whether it's melachah or not. That's right. ... Beautiful. Shailah is, how do you learn up Yerushalmi? You learn up Yerushalmi, ein mischayev. It's nothing, because lo hayah klum. The lashon of the Biur Halacha is lo hayah klum. Okay, now go read Rav Moshe's teshuva. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Now you see, ... maybe Rav Moshe's atzal, he slipped on Yerushalmi, he didn't see him ... Yerushalmi. Could be. I mean, Yerushalmi — only knew every Yerushalmi. So I'll tell you the ... Every Yerushalmi making a machine. But let me tell you, I wouldn't bet on that. That's not every Mishnah. It's not the point. The point is that Gedolei Olam had machlokes, and what the Raivid didn't say, that the Rambam made mistakes in Gemara, he missed the Gemara, because it's remayshes, therefore he couldn't have made a mistake. So I would tell you like this: gevaldige maaseh, the hakdamah of Reb Chaim, the Brisker Rav was once in a shul. There's a whole shailah if you need a minyan of ten or six to daven. Shailah of Rishonim. It's the classic—when yeshiva Olam is busy, very, very, very—it's one of the things that they were toifes, the minyan of ten or six, or ten or ten or six. So a guy asked the Brisker Rav if you need six, including four plus davening, or that's—whatever. No, you always need ten. The question is if you need six, all ten, or six in davening. So the thing is, it was for Kriyas HaTorah. So the Brisker Rav said that he heard already Kriyas HaTorah. So the person said, So what? We need to start with you anyway. All you need is six. Because it's not true, such statements.

A guy came and said, But it's mefurash a Ran. It's mefurash a Ran. So Brisker Rav said back to him, No, not true. There's no such Ran. So he went, he showed him the Ran, that the Ran says that all you need is six. So the Brisker Rav looked and looked and looked and said, Nein, you didn't read the Ran right. Who told you to put the dot over here, put the dot over here? When you read the—it's a question of how to read the Ran. When you read the Ran punctuation, if you read the Ran this way, he's saying that it's ten. The guy went out of his keilim. How the Brisker Rav knew every Ran, unbelievable. Now what you do in Brisk, they used to say that the Brisker Rav knows Shas and Rambam. Every Ran. Every Ran in Shas. So they asked Brisker Rav. Brisker says, No, I don't know every Ran. But since the Chayei Adam paskens that you need ten, it's lo ye'uman. It can't be that the Chayei Adam, who is mekubal as a psak halacha sefer b'klal Yisrael, should be koneged a mefurash Ran. It can't be such a thing. So he knew there's no such Ran. Das is a maaseh, a maaseh, a maaseh. This is meiredig, meiredig, meiredig. Yeah? It can't be that the Chayei Adam, lahalacha, made a mistake keneged a mefurash Ran. So I want to apply the same thing here too. Lo ye'uman. It can't be that the Rosh Yeshiva himself would make a mistake keneged a mefurash Yerushalmi. The teretz is he knew the Yerushalmi. I'm not געלערנט Yerushalmi. Anders, now read the truth. Go ahead. Wait, I don't know where it is. Ayin daled, Bava Basra, daf alef. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be wrong also. Lai zocha could be. Just tell me you can find mefurash Rans against everything. Or you take one bone out of the chicken. You don't fix the chicken up with still more bone. That's it. That's it. That was no borer. That's right. No, you don't have that one piece you want to eat. Not this, not this. Zicher psak. Who says that you go by the whole chicken? Maybe go by that piece. Because if you go by the whole chicken, maybe... Here's. If you cut the rocks in your flour, you just don't make crumbs. You can't use that flour. Chicken, you can cut the bone out of the way. You're able to eat the piece that you want, no? I don't understand that case. That's what I want to know. What's the difference? Who's talking about a rock? The... The... The... Yerushalmi. ... It's like a rock. Sorry, you're right, you're right. ... I hear what you're saying, because the piece that I ate, I was able to eat that piece. Otherwise, I couldn't eat that piece. So who cares about the rest of the chicken? ... What's the problem of a potato? ... No, no, no, no, no. It's not a problem. There has to be more sugar. No, no, but ... That's it. Just if you do it ... then it's ... one. I take a fish out of the water, Shabbos ... right? It has to be ... Shabbos. How could you not see? I'm so tired. ... the changing of the clock. I'm so tired. I don't know. You ... the ... That's it, clearly. You have no excuse. You don't wake up for the ... I read the whole thing. Just read the teshuvah. He talks about a little bit of stuff left over there. ... says it clearly. ... So it didn't take it out of the taaroves. He doesn't say because he didn't ... It's still me'urav. What's the case? What are they going to do about it? He didn't really do anything.

What's the case of ...? That's it. No, the ... is still there. He says it. What's the ...? ... you left still stuff in there. It's not called ... I'm taking out stuff. I'm taking stuff out of the soup and I left soup, so I left stuff in there. But whatever I took out, it's good. So I'm telling you, this is halacha. If you leave some of the pesailes, it's mutar. That's exactly what ... Correct, but what does he say? But if I leave some of the pesailes... You didn't change anything. If you're taking out oichel and pesoles... If I have oichel and pesoles, and the pesoles is there still, that's exactly what I told... But isn't a merak like an issa? I didn't take out... It says clearly, if I left some of the pesailes in there, what's the halacha? Pashut, shemeniach me'at mehamarak. Yeah, which is the pesailes. What are the two things here? If he left some of the marak, which is the pesailes... What was the oichel? Whatever the oichel was, but the marak is the pesailes, no? He's taking oichel... He's taking oichel... ... al pashut, meniach me'at mehamarak, ein ze borer. Machatatayin oichel mashke merubin, ach meises ribeh marak, ein ze borer. So he's leaving the marak and he's taking out marak. So what's the problem? It's just like a dough. It's like a dough that you don't want the whole dough, whatever. ... It's like the dough we had last week. That's not the issue of borer, a dough. You said last week, because if it's totally together, k'achas, it's one identity, there's no issue of borer there. We're not discussing that. And they have rocks in the dough. No, no, stam. You have a dough, water and flour together. We want to separate the water from the flour. You can't separate it. Fine. I'm going to leave this alone for now because I... Right here, I... it's not clear, but this is famous, famous teshuvah. I hear the reading of is a little bit shver. Notice of the case. Yeah, but he says, he's saying a vad that as long as the merak is still... the reading, it's not written. What you do, that's from Maisha Shitah. Maisha Shitah was that if you leave the pesulos... No, it's not. It's the wording's a little off. Okay, let's go weiter. Rabbeisa will work, but that's the point. L'maaseh, you have over here a shaila how to learn up the bi'alachah, yeah? That you saw the shaila how to learn up the bi'alachah. The Chashulchan clearly, in se'if daled says that the case would be that it's patur, but it's aser. Ein mechayvin doesn't mean that there's a chiyuv. Okay. What about when the pesoles is nechlal al yedei hadchak? Okay. The pesoles, again, I'm showing you—I'm a halach; we have to get all the halachos straight, then a mehalach comes out. When the pesoles is nechlal al yedei hadchak, we learned this in se'if katan tes-vav, okay? If it's nechlal al yedei hadchak, it's asur mid'rabbanan. Yeah. Right. That's that big long bi'alachah, right? ... al yedei hadchak. Remember that? Remember? You had it in. Well, fine. Okay. Now, listen carefully. We have to listen. Anything which is nachalai de'atchak, which means it's edible, it's edible. If it's nachalai de'atchak, it becomes deRabbanan. What don't you know? Which halacha don't you know? It's talking about... And you want one over the other. One over the other. Mistapek ha-pri megad, im ikri min echad o lo. Im machmas chamutz ein ro'uy le'echol. It's the same min, but it's chamutzim u'mesukim. Ha'vadai domeh le'pesoles, v'zeh shemisa breirah. Afilu ne'echal al yedei hadchak, yesh bo zeh mishum issur d'Rabbanan. V'damar al, we learned this, that that's why I'm being... It's not my fault that the olam is not... We did this. This is the leaves, that since it's nachalai de'atchak, it's also not even a kashya on this. Why is it different? I don't want to eat it. Then it becomes de'oraisa. It's d'Rabbanan. D'Rabbanan. It's not a... D'Rabbanan is different.

Mishnah brings the case of olim, and by olim the Mishnah says it's only derabbanan. So we asked this kasha. Why is it that if I don't want to eat one, it becomes de'oraisa? That was the kasha. We learned this. So we said back then, no. Good, good, good. I'm just saying, so if a person can eat it al yedei hadchak, then the halacha is it's only asur midrabbanan. Did we learn this? If it's nechal al yedei hadchak, it's not mi'de'oraisa; it's a פירוש of Mishnah. Now, let me show you what's called nechal. So if you look at Shulchan Aruch, se'if yud, there's a very nice halacha which we have to go through. Yayin. What's the story of yayin? Yayin o mayim sheheim tzlulim, water, it's tzlulim, it's clear, mutar l'sanenam. You're allowed to go and— so it's mutar l'sanenam. It's mutar to go and sift them out, okay, the mishmeres with a sifter. Hagah: af al pi sheyesh bo gesamim dakim, even though it has pieces, ho'il v'rauyin lishtos b'lav hachi. So this is what I was telling you. What's called nechal, what's called not nechal. Here we have a yesod that when the psoles is actually nechal, then it becomes mutar. Who decides what's nechal? One person? The sifter. If it's nechal, then it becomes mutar. Again, you want to sift water and there are pieces in it, so if the pieces are nechal, it's mutar. Let's go back. It's not that difficult. It's so simple that there's nothing even to talk about. What's it not to eat? You have water and you want to put a filter. Every house has a filter. Are you allowed to have that filter? That's this halacha. And the Torah says it doesn't make a difference because it's nechal. So once it's nechal, it becomes mutar. It's not pesulos. We just learned this. So you ask me a kasha, how come it's I just don't want it? You know who asked this kasha? We did, twenty times. Twenty times we asked this kasha. And the teretz is that since it's nechal, al yedei hadchak, and l'maaseh it's called one min. One min. That's the word. It's one min because it's the water, and the water has pieces in it, so it becomes like one min. So you can be mevatel from terumos... al teir. I have a move. It's one min because it's in the water. It's one food. It's not one min. I have pieces. I have wood. We spoke about this. We can't chas al teir because we spoke about it. So what do we have from here? We have a halacha of what? We have a halacha of that it's nechal. So who decides what's nechal? So Mishnah Berurah, sif katan lamed hei. It's in the water. There's dirty water. No. Zvuvim is one min with the water. Same like the... snicker. No, it's have pieces. It's wood. One min. So let's see the Mishnah Berurah. Mishnah Berurah, sif katan lamed hei, says the Mishnah Berurah, sif katan lamed hei, 'Isa b'smag, tzas kismin.' It's not talking about a lot of kismin. It's just a little bit. 'Hakavanah d'i lo haya harbeh, ein ra'uy lishtos kach. Where? L'reiv bnei adam b'li siman.' It's about roiv, roiv, you hear? Roiv. 'V'hu hadin im yesh b'yayin tzas kimchin she'rauyim lishtos kach l'reiv bnei adam, shari.' So it's about roiv. Most people. If most people could drink, then that's called that it's drinkable. Mishnah Berurah later brings down that there's one shita that holds that we don't follow roiv. Sif katan lamed daled. Kivan d'belav hachi l'roiv. You see, Mishnah Berurah: Mikri kol she'roi lishkos kach b'lishinah l'roiv bnei adam, v'yesh machmirim d'davka k'shekulam yecholim lishtos kein, v'ein mesanim ela k'dei sheyihyu tzlulim b'yoser. Now how does this Mishnah Berurah pasken? I don't know, he brings in yesh machmirim, so I don't know, mistama he paskens like the first shita, that we follow roiv. So what's called nechel and what's called not nechel? Roiv. Even though Mishnah Berurah brings a, you saw Sif katan lamed daled, v'yesh machmirim, that even if it's that you need most, everybody, l'choira it's only a yesh machmirim. Why does he bring it down in the stam? Just to know, I guess, that there's a second shita. L'maaseh, I never understood: how do you follow roiv in kol? Who decides roiv? You take a poll, a consensus? How does anyone ever decide roiv? What they do in one house is not what they do in another house.

Every person's different. So how do you, how do you magdir? Unless you say that there are klalim, what are normal and what are nishtanus. Maybe that's what it means. We don't mean roiv, you have to sit there and take a poll, who drinks what. I guess roiv would mean what a regular person. What's the rule that I always heard, if you would drink it... We're going to get to that. That's the next rule. We're not holding there yet. We're going to have to nitpick on it, okay? So again, rabosai, if it's nechel al yedei הדחק, it's rabbanan. If it's nechel, then it's what? Mutar. Now what would you call dchak, and what would you call not dchak? Because the truth is, we're saying a new klal now, roiv and kula. So it has to—if roiv בני אדם drink it, that's called not, right? And even in that, if it would be על ידי הדחק... Why not? What would you say? It's mutar. It's going the same halacha. ...it's more discussing what is... Salted... I really don't need lamed daled, because he says it again in lamed hei that it has to roiv. Right, I'm just saying, I don't think it's shver. It's not shver. I'm just saying, right, I say, but one thing for sure, you do see roiv and kol. I mean, that's all I'm trying to bring out. If you want to tie in, maybe there's no yesh machmirim, maybe, maybe, maybe. I agree with you. It's not relevant to the shaila, okay? The point being, how do we decide what roiv and kol is, and how do we decide dchak and not dchak? Who decides dchak? That's my question. My question is, roivin koil, we don't mean peoples. We mean b'derech klal, right? So chak and not chak is who, b'derech klal or you? This, I'm not sure how to translate the word chak. It's nechla, the word chak. Some people have better, better digestive; they can eat anything. Okay. Now let me show you what happens in case the whole world does need it, or does—let's say the other way around—the whole world does eat it, and he's an istinus, he can't eat it, which is what you asked me. So look at the Biur Halacha, Divrei Hamaschil Ho'il, Ho'il v'ruyin, u'mi shehu istinus. What happens if a person's an istinus? V'i efshar lemishti hachi, heichi... Divrei Hamaschil Ho'il. It's a one-liner in the middle of the Biur Halacha, Ho'il v'ruyin. U'mi shehu istinus, v'i efshar lemishti hachi, heichi sheyesh bo kismin u'kedaima, efshar, af d'ruba d'inshi lei kapdi klal, lo amrinan batel da'ato, de'asa d'avid b'er. Keyword: efshar. That's a meirige shaila. Yes, I know, I know. But you know what? To appreciate your shaila, first I want to build it up to it. Let the oilam get the information, let them enjoy it. It's a beautiful, it's such a beautiful sugya. Huh? I don't know. It's also a good shaila. Maybe if it's kulei. I even translated it kulei. Let's say it's kulei, and you say even less. Let's say it's ruba. Maybe it would be. That's a very good— I have to write this down. No, but yeah, in fact, good. Maybe by kulei. See, Reb Yochanan, since he became a Rosh Yeshiva, he's so much better Torah. There's a vort from the Granat. The Granat said over that ever since he started saying shiurim—you know, the Velt says this way—whenever you start saying shiurim, you say better. Why? Because of the zechus harabim, so you say better. I say, they told me that the Granat, you say the opposite, that ever since he became a Rosh Yeshiva, worse. Why? Because it goes to the klal of v'zeh aseh pecha pecha aleichem. It's harder. There shouldn't be no flosos. So the kasha—the famous Reb Yaakov—said the other way. The other way. Reb Yaakov said it the other way. So I always had a kasha on this. Shteit a klar, because it's parnassah. Yeah, I know. But l'maaseh, the kasha is the פירוש of Tosafos. Tosafos says that the v'zeh aseh pecha, the klalah, doesn't go on talmidei chachamim, because they're like adam rishon קודם החטא, so they don't have the klalah. It's a very... Ba'alei haTosafos, hachumash. But to give over to the talmidim... Can I give you credit for the beautiful vort you just said? It was beautiful. L'choira, it could be you could say that the Biur Halacha is talking about when it's roiv. So roiv, you can have the what? That it's batel daas. But if you say—I have to write this down.

This is good. You have a pen? I need to write this down. This is good. I don't know, I never, I never learned. Yeah. You know how Reb Moshe used to give shiur from his papers? This, you know, ... shiur, give shiur right out of the papers. Reb Moshe ... never brought a sefer to shiur. ... had his Gemara, and he would have his papers, and he would just read over the dibrei Moshe. Reb Moshe, papers. He came with his notes, and he would just read it. And then when people would ask him kashas, he would take out a pen and he would write down. That's why if you look in the ha'aros, in the dibris, in the back, you'll find Reb Michel Shurkin asked me this one, asked me... He would just מילא the shiur, write down the kasha the guy asked. ... he would write the shiur. Emes. It was so emes. The emes. My father told me that he would come and give shiur, and people would come to collect money. You know, MTJ, it was a free-for-all for all the beggars there. They would come collecting money, so the people would say, Stop. Reb Shiva was giving shiur. Reb Shiva said, Don't stop them. ... shiur. They would walk around. There's a new shul in town where they made aser, ... no questions. I don't know, I didn't think I liked it. Father told me Reb Shiva ... let, in the middle of his shiur, walk around him collecting money. People need parnassah. It's a good deal. ... Mishnah Berurah. ... Mishnah Berurah. Okay, I'll finish. ... you're getting credit for this. Now. What happens if it's the other way around? What happens if it's the other way around? What happens if it's a rav refon? He can eat anything, and he eats what the whole world considers psailus. How do we work that? Chayrah could be the same shailas. So in Nissan Karelitz, I saw in a sefer says, batel daasei. Batel daasei. If you eat what everybody—nobody eats—and you eat it, so it's batel daasei. So again, so we have when it's rov bnei adam, the Biur Halacha says efsher de-batel daasei, so the key word is efsher. And Reb Yom is saying good. Maybe if the whole world doesn't eat it, then it's not efsher, then it would be vadai batel, which is Reb Nissim Karelitz the reverse. Okay. According to this, we could be dan with a very nice shaila. No, Biur Halacha says efsher; you don't say batel daasei. I know it's a shaila. But maybe when it's koil... No, I'm saying it's the other way around. Yeah, but the other way around. I understand, because it depends which way you're differing, right? Okay. Now, what's it nogea? Let me show you how it's nogea in gevaldik. Are you allowed to eat the skin of chicken? Everybody knows this, right? So you do—the Rishivas Hatzal says that the chicken, if you're boirer—the question is the boirer of the chicken skin. So Rishivas Hatzal held there was no boirer. So in Eil Meshulash, he brings down that Rabbi Yashiv says the same thing, that there's no boirer on the skin of the chicken. So how does shaila—what? Because it's echad; it's considered part of the same thing. The what? I can't hear what. Even though, right, so my shaila would be like this: what happens if he's an istenis? A person's an istenis and he can't eat it. Can't eat the skin of the chicken; he can't stand it. So do you have this biur halacha on the Rosh Yeshiva's psak? Rosh Yeshiva paskens that there's no problem of borer pesoles. So would you come and say, but if a person is nistes and he can't take it, maybe just like any other borer, no? Just like anything else that's mutar, no? What are you tainas? So they brought, so I saw Rav Elyashiv, and the Ohel Moshe says taka asur. But even if you're going to say chicken, you know how to take off the skin, but an nistes is not allowed. What is mistama the psak of Rav Elyashiv? He's using this biur halacha. Don't steal my shiur! Don't steal my shiur! Look at the biur halacha. Look at Rav Moshe's teshuva and tell me what Rav Moshe would be saying. It's mismeres. It's mismeres. That's not chumra. Read Rav Moshe's teshuva. Read it. While he reads Rav Moshe's teshuva, let me give you an example. Why don't you eat? It's... I didn't write it over here. It's right here. They just eat the skin. It's very good. I love it. One thing is not healthy, but it's the best part. It's good. That's all. Barbecue. Barbecue. That's what healthy... Come, come, rabosai, rabosai, come, come. Let's not go. We're not in China. We're not in China.

One second. עצמות. Tapuchim. Yeah. וכן אכלינן באר של עוף ודג הרויים לאכילה. Okay, go ahead. עוף ודג. Read, read. So while he reads, let me tell you over. Scream? Why not? They call you a mistame, but it has to be chaver. Mistame, we're both chaver. It's only if it's the same thing, no? Give me a bit, give me a bit. Why are you not eating the skin? So you cannot eat the skin because you don't like it, or you cannot eat the skin because you have phobias that it's going to cause you cancer and chas v'shalom, and heart disease and all other machlas that they convince you today. Even though, let me tell you the real truth: you don't get sick because you eat skin of chicken. לא הנחש ממית, אלא החטא ממית. Ah, you'll ask me a kasha from maaseh, from Shmuel. A shivah that tells you teshuvah, it has to be direct. It has to be when I eat this, that happens. But the come and say, yeah, if years and years later... it's all not real. You know what it is? And then the longer you live, the more you start realizing how much time you spend reading articles that they're choizer from. Today, what they said causes cancer twenty years ago, they tie in today's health. Who cares? You got healthy. But kitzur. Or you can have a third case. Not that you feel that it's not healthy because you're a health bug. The doctor tells you you have very high cholesterol, and therefore you're not allowed to eat chicken fat because it has gefeleche cholesterol. So that's what I want to tie in. I want to tie in like this: if you don't like the chicken... Chayiv, that's peshitus, no? But then you can have those shivas heter. But it's not really peshitus. Ah, you're an istinis. Maybe by the rishivas pshat, but it's not the same thing as here. And read it. He'll read it in a minute. But if it's taka because you're gonna be sick, doctor tells you cholesterol, maybe that's taka a serious thing. And I went to look, so I found a Mishnah Berurah. It says this nekudah: if it's mazik lei, if it's not to eat the skin of the chicken because it's mazik lei, then l'chanami it's a din of peshitus and it's a din. Now read the Rishiva's teshuva, and then we clear. Go ahead, go ahead. By the oif. What's by the oif? He says, ... the getaitch. ... It's not because you're eating l'achilah. He's not saying this halacha because it's ruyi l'echloi. It's like, yeah, it's the same thing. It's chicken. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no shem peshilus on it. So even if you're an istinis, does it make a difference? It doesn't make a difference. I want to tighten the Rishiva's psak. I want to make a difference with an istinis. I pull out fat from the chicken, it's not around? No. Nothing. I could pick the chicken's bones and bones? No. No problem. You know who said it? The Rishiva said. But the bones also. Moshe said it. The bones also. The bones also. The bones also. The bones also. We need to get the bone. Hear the words. Bones is the same. ... Bones are roi l'achilah. Otherwise you can't say. Which are roi l'achilah? Which are? We're gonna learn this. We're gonna talk about this. You know what? Give me five minutes, I want to move. Let's move a little bit now, okay? So this is good, write that. Istinis, emes, emes. Even though Rishiva's pshat, istinis, I don't know. Now I saw, this could not, could be good, that the Selda could pasken like to say that Chamoyshe was in America, and he only said in America, because in America they eat the skin. That's the Selda, they don't eat the skin. The stam what they mean is it's so dirty and it's so filthy, the skin, the stam of the chickens over there, they just don't eat it. They don't need it. So many want to say that Rameisha only wrote it because there are people that eat it. If the world wouldn't eat it, then it would become aser, and a Chanami. Okay. So, rabosai, the way we learned the teshuva of Rameisha, it's also nishta. I don't care if the whole world stops eating the skin. It becomes like the other mupashim. It becomes like the other mupashim. He says, ‘sheroi lachilah.’ If people stop eating chicken, it gets in America. No, I'm trying to say a vort. I hold they don't understand Rameisha's teshuva. They're trying to say Rameisha held like this because people do eat the skin. Maybe he didn't mean that. He meant that it's roi lachilah. He never said that they eat it. He never said one word that people eat it. Yeah, but if they don't eat it because it's dirty, then maybe that means they're trying to— He's saying a vort that the yeshiva held that since people eat it, so therefore that's not what Rameisha meant.

The oil would stop eating because it's not healthy. Who are you to the whole world stops eating the skin of the chicken because it's not healthy? It's still not פסול. They made the chicken... in Israel, it's dirty. It's dirty. No, but if it's dirty, if that's... that's awesome. Then it's... it's like... dirty chicken. They wash it, of course. You should not... I don't even want to say the most cheshed sefarim. I went to look today. Bring it down like this, that Rav Moshe... poor Rav Moshe, what they hack a chinik on Rav Moshe, gefelach. Okay, anyways. Give me three minutes, I want to finish. Yeah, so I'm trying to say, in Rav Moshe it's not a problem because it's not even פסול. Imagine a guy comes and says, This is פסול, it's פסול, but it's clean water. I don't want it right now. But that's only in two minim. By one min, we don't have that. Okay. Now let's discuss putting a filter. So the Chazon Ish uses this psak that you're allowed to use a filter, since people drink the water the way it is, so why can't you put a filter? So that's what I want to say. So what about today? So what about today that they have the whole thing with the copepods and the snakes, the snakes in the water? Okay. So the answer is like this: who says it's פסול? That's if people drink it. Narvos, we, bnei Torah. Now I don't even say we because I'm... I drink it, no problem. I make a bracha on it, and I make l'sheim mitzvas shemiyas l'talmidei chachamim. Okay, anyways, בקיצור, I'll tell you, I went over to a rav. Rav Dovid... I went over to a rav in a chasunah, and I asked the rav, he tells me, Rav... said it's mutar. I'm like, Rav... said it's mutar? I said, Rav Dovid said it's assur. He said, Understand, they have filters. Of course they have. For everybody has to have. People are going to stop drinking water in yeshiva. Okay, kitzur. What do I have? One moment. I'm trying my best to be on time. Kitzur, does issur make pesulos? So I found there's a very interesting Aruch HaShulchan. The Aruch HaShulchan, in siman ... halacha tezayin, he says a case where if you make trumos and maasros and chulin mixed together, it would be a nishtaber. So you see that even though b'etzem there's nothing wrong with it, but since al tz issur you can't eat it, it becomes okay. Now, what about the feathers? What about the feathers on the chicken? So the Igros Moshe brings down it's aser. Because of what? Not because of borer. Rosh Yeshiva brings down that it's aser because of gozez. Chaim Kanievsky, in the kuntresim they bring from Chaim, those pamphlets, he says that it's aser al tz borer. It's aser al tz borer. Give me a minute, give me a minute. Borer, okay. Now, there's a mechlokes nafkamina. I hope there's a mechlokes nafkamina. You don't have the heter of shas achilah if it's gozez. So if let's say you want to take it to your mouth and pull out the thing, if it's borer then you'll be mutar, but if it's gozez it would still be aser. Rosh Yeshiva said it was gozez. That's interesting. Then there's no heter there, achilah. What about the soft bones, atzamos rakim? So in halacha in shin yud tes, ... says it's not psulos, it's re'ui l'achilah. So I never understood, and the Chazon Ish of course is cholek, the ... Chazon Ish in siman ... that it's considered psulos atzamos rakim that are re'ui l'achilah. He says the Chazon Ish. Now, my question is, in the bir halacha, is it a case that you גרד to eat the bones? Ratzamos rakim is mutar even if you personally don't eat those bones. Same shailah. It's telling the sevara, because I don't have time, I can't be ma'arich, so use your imagination to understand how it fits back into everything we learned, and that's a very interesting b'er halacha, pshat in the b'er halacha by hatzamos. Hu rachuk. I don't hear one. I can do whatever you want, I'm here. Okay, so we'll go through it. It takes time. I speak through things. I want more and more. Okay. Why is it mutar?

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