Hilchos Borer: Washing Fruits and Vegetables on Shabbos—Soaking, Rinsing, and Removing Dirt

Transcript

The washing of fruits and vegetables, it's a big sugya, and the yesod of it is a she'einah greisa sugya from Shas. It begins by Shas. It's not a sugya from Acharonim. It's a Shas sugya. So let me show you where it is in Shulchan Aruch, and the Shulchan Aruch is actually, like I said, quoting Gemara, and that is siman yud tes se'if ches. Okay. Ein shorin. Shorin usually means, and I'm going to be very careful, meticulous, to translate every word, because if we have proper and accurate translation, the halacha takes on its ramification. There's a very big difference in halacha. If you know well this se'if. This se'if is a complicated, so to speak, it's an issue, because it's stiras in Hilchos Borer, very complicated se'if. With accuracy of the translation, things become clear. Ein shorin. The word shorin. Shorin usually means that I put something to soak. Shriya. Matzah shriya means soak. Ein shorin, to soak, es ha-karshinin. Karshinin are like oats, which is foods that they feed to the animal, which is from the wheat, in the wheat products. Peirush ha-Aruch, veitza. You see, wheat. Veitza b'laz, wheat. Veitz in Yiddish is wheat. Okay. Dahainu, shemeitzif mayim aleihem b'kli. Problem. What does the word meitzif mean? Meitzif means that he splashes water on it, right? The tzaftzef. Meitzif is to splash water on it, bigli. So where is the food and where is the water? So I guess if shoir means to soak, then I guess you're just putting water into the kli. Or maybe it means that I'm taka putting water onto it, bigli, in the kli, which means part of the boirer process is the fact that the water is being put on it directly. Very big nafka mina lahalacha. I'm telling you, I'm being very, very careful with my words. Shriya, shoirin is to soak. Shoirin is to soak. Meitzif, meitzif mayim aleihem. Meitzif means to pour, is to splash, to splash water on it, bigli. So what does it mean, meitzif? Just say you filled up a bowl of water, and then you put the stuff in. You want to know, it's mashma is the water is being poured onto it. Is that relevant? Is it not relevant? And if it is relevant, which means it has something to do with the fact that I'm pouring the water on it, which I would say is like a washing process, right? You're washing out the wheat, then where does the bigli—why is that so necessary? What's the issue of bigli? Meitzif mayim aleihem. If the whole idea is that the water is cleaning out the wheat, so just say simply that he puts on it water and he's meitzif mayim. What's bigli? What is the point of the kli, or is there a significance to the kli? Maybe it's lav davka. Maybe, yeah, I can hear not. Meaning, I could just say it's just a technical thing, where you're going to hold the thing. You're not going to hold it in your hand. So then it's really two different sugyos. One is to soak, and the other one is to wash. Should I cheat now and tell you, like, why I'm bringing this out? Shehiyurin means that it's soaking, right? And meitzif l'choira just means to wash something out. You want to know the difference? Just— No, not even draining. Perfect example: when you wash a fruit, does it soak? No, you're washing it. You're putting it over the water, the running water. Which one is it? Which one of the cases is this story? Is it soaking? Is it soaking, ein shoirin, which is the translation of shoirin, okay? Or it's meitzif mayim aleihem, then I'm putting water onto it, which means it doesn't necessarily soak; just I'm washing it. And the reason why it's b'kli, it's just a technical thing, okay? We're going to work on this because this is a very, very big shailah l'halachah. K'dei l'hasir hapsoles, in order to take away the pesoles, okay? Now, there's a second case: v'lo yishafin osan b'yad. You're also not allowed to scrape it. To be shoif is to scrape, is to—

With your hand, okay? K'dei l'hasir hapsoiles, d'havalei kibbur. I don't know why it's havalei kibbur; it's borer, okay, but havalei kibbur. But then he could put it b'kivra, af al pi shenoifel hapsoiles, derech nikev hakivra, there's no problem. And that's what we learned before: kivra, it's bigger, it's smaller, there's no problem, okay? That's the different kelim. Now, what is the case of shafin? Shafin means with water or without water. Shafin means I'm scraping. Just to give you the example of fruit. Let's say I want to clean a fruit. Sometimes I saw people, especially yeshivas, they don't want to wash it; they take it on their shirt. I guess not everybody's lifers, not everybody saw it. Maybe you just did it in my days, huh? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, everybody does it, right? You don't want to... Okay, so you must... your shirts to the cleaners, so you mark on your shirts. Yeshiva oilam is not marking on their shirts; that's how they do it. They go like this, and they give you the apple, okay? Is shafin with water, or shafin is not necessarily with water. So these are the two shailos that we have to address. What is the sugya of ein shorin? Is it soaking or washing? And the second shaila is, what does it mean shafin? And we'll soon see this ramification, nafka minas lahalacha. Says the Mishnah Berurah, what's the whole sugya, ein shorin? Says the Mishnah Berurah, hu hadin im yesh pesoles v'ochel me'uravin, asur litlen b'mayim. Now what does he mean, hu hadin? I mean, isn't that the story of ein shorin? So what does he mean, hu hadin im yesh pesoilos v'ochel merub. What is he adding? That's not hu hadin, that's the din. Isn't this what it's talking about? How does this become, and so too the halacha would be, hu hadin im yesh pesoilos v'ochel merub. He's talking about krishin, it's a different food. Ugh, that's so shvach. So wait a minute, what does he want? One second. Oh, you see, that's the answer. You said the answer, but he's not giving you just an example. He's saying the first case over here is by the karshinim, it's not necessarily me'urav. It might be what, rabosai, on top. The wheat's are dirty. It's not pshat there's dirt in. The wheat themselves are dirty, so then it's on the wheat. So he's saying, hu hadin im yesh pesoilos v'ochel merubim, asur litnen b'mayim k'dei sheyipol hapesoilos lematah, kegon afar, o sheyatzuf l'maalah, kegon teven. It's not a kolshekein. Is it not a kolshekein? Maybe it's—so you'd rather have the word kolshekein there. Okay, so let's say. I think he's telling you, he's telling you it's the same halacha. Okay, so if you don't like my pshat, I have no problem. I see Reb Shapsi's writing it, so for me that's a good enough siman that I'm saying something. All I'm trying to say is, does this Mishnah Berurah explain—he's not explaining, he's saying hu hadin. Hu hadin means that this is halacha, and then there's also another case. I just want to know what the two cases are. Subtracting something, he's changing. There's another case. So what's this case and this case? So in my mind, and trust me, I did the sugya, you can trust me that I'm right about it. We'll see in the poskim there might be a big difference where it's me'urav and where it's just on top, where it's me'urav and where it's just on top. Says the Mishnah Berurah, hu hadin, hu hadin. Krishin are oats, vetchs. It's a type of wheat that they give in front of the beheima. I'm not saying, but okay, maybe. But the Mishnah Berurah is trying to say hu hadin when it's me'urav. I mean, obviously that's the only thing that he's adding, the word me'urav. Everything else is regular here. Unless the pouring is the difference. Who? You can't argue with the fact that the Mishnah Berurah says. You don't like what he's saying, but the Mishnah Berurah says. It's not clear what it means. He's just telling you any food. It's not saying that. It's not clear you've got to make any... whatever the farmer... Okay, so I'll tell you what we're going to do. Listen to me carefully. When the sugya becomes clear, you have the right to fill in any blank you want. But all my job is to be me'orer you that there's something here. I mean, and it's not Torah. I'm not saying chiddushim here. It's pashut. He's giving you a case, and hu hadin, there's another case. So the question is, what's the hu hadin? I mean, it's the same case that it's...

Isn't that the story? So either you say it's not the same story because it's mu'arev. Ah, wait a minute. So, no, no, no, no, no. Of course it's different. I'll explain to you. Explain to you. Next, okay, right? Reb Shabsi maskim? You have a pshat? No, I'm saying you have a different pshat. You're saying you have a pshat? Milchoires, something. Am I right or am I wrong? I'm saying something, right? I mean, obviously this is the case of karshina; it is not the case of mu'arev. I mean, obviously that's what he's trying to say. Okay. What's the story? Karshina. Says the Mishnah Berurah, hu ma'achal beheima. This is ma'achal beheima, okay. V'hu adin tapuchei adama. So you're asking me, what's the hu adin tapuchei adama? So I can tell you tapuchei adama means human food. It doesn't have to be karshina, which is animal food. Ma'achal beheima, v'hu adin tapuchei adama, kartofel, u'kiai gavna, le'itna lei mayim k'dei la'aser avivav from aleya. Nothing. He's just saying, don't think that even though the halacha was set up as ma'achal beheima— No, I don't know, and I don't even know what the issue is. It says mayim. You're right. In other words, you don't see the, the, the, right, le'itna lei mayim. Beheima. Okay, slowly, slowly. Meise, you have to let me talk. I'm not a magician. I can only go step by step. No, no, no, let me see. One second, which sharatzim are you talking about? Maybe, maybe. One second, chaf aleph. Yeah, like the Rambam could be ... Yeah, I understand, right, right. That's what I'm telling you. V'hu hadin, parshas all these things, v'hu hadin maichelot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. V'hu hadin maichelot. That's what he's eating, maichelot. Okay. Oh, that's the kasha. Now you just hit the kasha. I don't even know what this Mishnah Berurah is talking about. I have no idea what this Mishnah Berurah is talking about. If you can help me figure out what this Mishnah Berurah is talking about. When do you have afar? Who's eating afar? What is he referring to? That's not who hadin tapuchei adama. What do you want for tapuchei adama? Tapuchei adama means you took it from the ground. You took it from the ground and it's all dirty. You want to get the dirt off. Who's eating it? What are you talking about? What's the ... It's muktsa. What are you gonna do with it? Somebody said it's cooked. Otherwise, ... Somebody's asking you if it's cooked. How is it dirty? What are you talking about? It didn't have carpet. So what do you want for? I did tapuchei adama there. What do you want? You want to eat apple, same thing. You have to let me talk a little. You pushed the kasha. What is ... tapuchei adama? What kind of potatoes? Why the potatoes? But if you baked it with the dirt, now you're gonna want to wash it off. It fell on the floor. I heard you. Could you wait a minute? It fell on the floor. Yeah, maybe. Okay, we heard. ... The story isn't for the beheima. That's the pshat in Mishnah Berurah. The fellow has no idea. Pshat. Who eats potatoes? Otherwise, can I ask you a question? You need an example. Potato. What's wrong with an example? An apple. You want to tell me that the fruits were clean in Europe? That's a classic case. V'hu hadin tapuchei adama. They used to feed... Why would it be different? That's a good kasha. Maybe. There's a gevaldige Mishnah Berurah here. Something. Yeah, go ahead. I don't know. I don't know. All I can tell you is v'hu hadin tapuchei adama. It should say v'hu hadin not maichel beheima that we eat. It's not here. It's one thing v'shur. Okay. Can I tell you the truth? Can I tell you the truth? I don't care what pshat you learned. My job is to point out that l'choira, epes is do. No, I know, but I don't mean v'hu hadin. Listen, I'm not trying to say v'hu hadin.

So that's the story. But give me other examples. V'hu hadin of tapuchei adamah. Now why would there be a bigger chiddush in tapuchei adamah? That's a good question. Hu hadin tapuchei adamah. Why should there be a chiddush of tapuchei adamah? So I'll tell you what I think the chiddush is. I think the karshinim, the karshinim, is not roi l'achilah the way it is. The karshinim is not roi l'achilah. It might be hard. Ein shorin es hakarshinim. It's not even so much—I was thinking about washing it—it does say soaking. So you are soaking it. Soaking usually is to make soft. Gradu, when you soak it, what happens is it's merakeks b'soch cheicho, there's a problem. Efshar. V'hu hadin tapuchei adamah, that you want to throw them, those potatoes, so what you do is—and you want to clean it so that it's also be'asur. Even though it's not pshat you're fixing the potato; the potato is raw and you give me it raw. Efshar. Again, I'm just throwing out efshar. Why am I asking all of this? Why baby can't eat dirty? So what's the karshinim then? How do you explain the karshinim? Same question. Whatever the teretz to karshinim is, that's the teretz to the tapuchei adamah. Whatever you can explain why the karshinim, you take away the dirt before you give it to the beheima, that's the story with this also. So healthy animal. Okay, that's right. Those animals that they make sure with the steroid, what do they call that? The organic animals. They charge you three times the amount. Okay. Sade. Sade is alte teire. Today they talk to the animal and they give them... psychologically to make sure... Yashka. Want to make sure it's a very healthy beheima. Okay, now, you never know who the real beheima is there. Okay, anyways, b'kitzur, the point being, ha'beisai, epes is do. Okay, what do I want? What about fruit l'maaseh today? I take an apple out of my refrigerator. Am I allowed to wash it or am I not allowed to wash it? Lettuce, we'll get to later. Am I allowed to wash it or am I not allowed to wash it? L'choira, it depends how you learn this. If you're learning tapuchei adamah is regular fruit, and it's just an example of fruit, which is strange, why he would give me an example of tapuchei adamah over any other fruit, but that's what all it means. So then we have a special halacha that you're not allowed to wash fruit, just like tapuchei adamah is asur, so too you're not allowed to wash a fruit on Shabbos, which we'll get to soon is a big machlokes haposkim. Okay. If it's true that it's only about fruit and maichal adam and there's not much else here, so then why is it talking about the example of tapuchei adamah? So I was claring, could be, could be, and I hold it's emes, emes, emes la'amitoi. Tapuchei adamah are very, very dirty. Tapuchei adamah are very, very, very, very dirty. So could be the issur is when it's serious dirt, but something which is not serious dirt, efsher ken make. That's the point. The point is that it's much more b'dirt. You like it? What Rav just said was the chiddush that tapuchei adam are more edible than the karshina. No, if beheima, the tapuchei are more edible than the karshina. But if adam, an apple is much more edible than a tapuchei adam. A tapuchei is dirty, it's dirty. What? That's what I'm telling you, so maybe there's no problem. That's exactly what I'm answering you. I'm giving you a pashut teretz. You know what I'm doing now? Just groundwork. I'm laying the groundwork on how to learn up the sugya. The groundwork on how to learn up the sugya is this: A is tapuchei adam and nothing to do with our foods. It's about maichel beheima, and it's a whole different sugya. Or B, tapuchei adama. And I'll tell you why I'm clever. I'll tell you why I'm clever. What cheshbon goes through my mind. I mean, be'emes, when you put the water on the tapuchei adama, who says you're being boreir the psoles from the ochel? Maybe you're being boreir the ochel from the psoles. When I put something in water and it soaks, what makes it that this is this and that is that? Bishleima, if you look at the Mishnah Berurah, he gives you a story that it's ochel u'rovim.

One, the psailus falls to the lematah. So then I could hear that maybe the lematah becomes the psailus. The lematah becomes the psailus, and it has to do with what we spoke there. But if you learn that stam it's just getting clean, so how do you know it's psailus v'noichel? I'm stam, it separates, so what? So maybe it's—I'm not holding anything, maybe. Or especially by—and for example, by the apple, how does it work? I'm holding the apple. No, this is a good example. I'm holding the apple, and so what's the psailus part? What falls away? What falls away? But in the kli, in the story of ein shoirin, it's in the kli. Who tells you which one's the borer? So then there's no issur. It might be mutar, right? Wait a second, it might be mutar. And then I would have a heter l'alter. And then I would have a heter l'alter, unless maybe for a beheima. I don't know if you have a heter l'alter for those pashut you do. I was clarifying this, that could be the tapuchei adamah is a story that it's in a pot. In the pot, it becomes borer of the oichel from the psailus, not necessarily the psailus from the oichel. Then you have a heter l'alter. So as soon as—if you give it to the—unless for a beheima, there's no heter. I think there is. There should be a—what? So again, therefore we can't learn the pshat that we're learning. I'm trying to work out something. I'm trying to figure out, what do you want from tapuchei adamah? Is tapuchei adamah apples of our refrigerator? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Could be the pshat is tapuchei adamah is the example, and you should write this down, because one day I want to take credit for this. This is a good pshat I'm telling you. I hope it's a good pshat. Tapuchei adamah is very dirty. And apple's not that dirty. It's a tikun mana when it's very, very dirty, yeah. Mashenkin if you clean an apple. I know many people eat apples this way. Yeah, v'hu adin tapuchei adama, because you're fixing it. Kashirin is soking, you're fixing it, and hu adin tapuchei adama that you're fixing it. And hachanami, when you're doing regular, regular, what you call it, regular apples, meichateis. But why is... We'll get to that slowly, little by little. No, but it's borer. The borer is the tikun mana. I mean, that's borer. Tikun oichlin is borer. That's... I want to talk about that. That's the next step. That's page three. We have to go step by step. We'll talk about that. This Karel says such a svara, that al yedei the mayim u'kli comes b'kli. It's not considered borer b'yad, which is mutar. Masik l'vash from this Karel. We'll get to it. Slow, slow, little. Smack, eh? It's not oichel. Smack is sugya. Direct, direct, direct. Okay. Yeah, Reb Yehmen, weiter? Okay. U'lefi zeh, u'lefi zeh, do we have a raya for peiros? I don't know. We really knotted up this Mishnah Berurah that it's not so pashut what he's talking about. I don't know what he's talking about. Either he's talking maichel beheima, and then there's no heter l'alter, maybe, maybe, maybe, and that's your homework for tonight. You don't want to look into it. Is there a heter l'alter when you feed the beheima? It's a nice ha'ara. It's right in the poskim. Second shailah is, right, because could be it's considered the borer of the oichel from the psoles, right? Or maybe tapuchei adamah is separate than regular fruit because it's extremely, extremely dirty. Okay. So what do we do l'maaseh with the fruit? The only thing that's left to do is to tell you what the Acharonim say, what the Gedolei Yisrael tell us. Reb Shlomo Zalman speaks many cases that you can't answer. You see from many other examples in Hilchos Borer that the fruit has to be mutar. But before I get to Reb Shlomo Zalman's classic raayos that he brings—I'm sorry, I want to say the other way around—before we get to Reb Shlomo Zalman's chiddushdike raayos that he brings, there's the classic one which everybody speaks about. This is va-sugya. The problem with the sugya is, we learned in Shin Chaf Aleph, are you allowed to peel an apple? No? Of course you're allowed to peel an apple. We learned it. Peel— Well, this, what's he talking about? How could this be any different? You can peel it also there, the dirt. That's the kasha. Anybody who writes on this sugya and doesn't ask this kasha means he doesn't—I don't know which sugya he's learning. He isn't learning this halacha. This is the problem. The problem is it's often a stira to the Mishnah Berurah. Yeah, it's the same.

Okay, so, I mean, how does the peel the peel, that you're allowed to do, but the dirt that's on the—it's the same thing. You're allowed to peel it, so what are you talking about? So there's a teretz floating around from Rav Chaim Kanievsky, and that is that the peeling of a fruit is done before the eating. The washing of a fruit, not done before the eating. Moshe, let me tell you, you're too much of a genius for me. That's my problem. I'm not as big a genius as you. I'm—two seconds, but I have to teach. Moshe, let me tell you my problem. I have to teach. The oilam has to get it. You're not—you're not—you're not. I hope you're. Okay, so this is the Rav Chaim. You hear Rav Chaim's— I know. I'm asking with you. Of course, I also know what he's talking about. For a few—one second, one second. Can I backtrack? I know very well what he's talking about. You have to first listen to what he says, pay close attention, and then you'll see that he's saying gevaldig, gevaldig. You have no idea. In his few words, he opens up the whole sugya. It's brilliant. I saw it first, I said to myself, like you, first of all, what's the main kasha? It's not true. People do wash a fruit before they eat it. What's he talking about? Stop what he's talking about. He says a fruit you peel before you eat. A fruit you peel before you eat. Washing the— we're talking about washing an apple. Are you allowed to wash an apple? So you're allowed to peel the apple, but you're not allowed to wash the apple. Why? Says Rav Chaim Kanievsky, because peeling is done before. Washing—I'm sorry, peeling is done right before you eat. Washing is not done before you eat; it's done way before. Who said? Not in my house. I don't know. You take an apple, you wash, you eat it. So not serving on the table. That's the only case an apple is only when you serve it on the table. What's he say? What's he say? Yeah? Are you with me? What does he mean? Okay. Okay. By teichen, is there la'alter by teichen? By teichen, la'alter. Teichen, la'alter. Yeah, I'm saying I'm not sure what you mean, so. What does that do borer, though? Teichen, borer is the same thing. I mean, we learned that, we compared it. Yeah, I know. What, you want the Mishnah Berurah? Bring it. You can take it. Okay. Kasha number one. Kasha number one. Let's go. Kasha number one. It's not necessarily so. Kasha number two, the whole idea is that it's not pesoles. So what's the difference when you do it? If the whole vort is that it's not called boirer b'soyles, so what's the difference if you do it before or if you do it not before? What does he mean? What is he saying? So I'll tell you what I think he means. I'll tell you what I think Reb Chaim means. Relax. I think Reb Chaim is saying a beautiful vort. He's saying, kiluf is derech achilah because it's done before. Rechitzah is not derech achilah; rechitzah is hachanah. So, ... I enjoyed my heart, my heart jumped. No, hachanah, hachanah. Reb Chaim. Okay. Now, what is hachanah? Yeah, so I'm telling you, no, hachanah is boirer. Boirer is always hachanah. Derech achilah is mutar. That's the ... right away it's mutar. That's the yesod. The yesod of derech achilah is preparation, it's eating. But shaking, the hachanah becomes boirer. Okay. There's only one problem. That's not the teretz Reb Chaim gives. Reb Chaim gives a different teretz. What is his teretz? Tapuchei, Reb Chaim himself gives a different teretz to the stirah. The first thing is, no, I understand, but I'm saying in the Mishnah Berurah, to explain.

The tapuchei adam and a regular fruit. Reb Chaim says a different thing. What? In She'elochos he brings us a tzarchiyin. Contray some mach that they put out, the pamphlets. He says a very nice teretz. He says like this: tapuchei adam grows with dirt. Apples become dirty. Something which is derech giduloi, something which is derech giduloi, it's less borer. Less. But he wants to eat sauce. Tapuchei adam is aser. Right. It's a natural thing. Separate the questions from peel from the apple. So we're talking about tapuchei adam? What? Questions. Why is washing a shaila? Why is washing a shaila? Apples grow with peels also. Say a new teretz. How? Reb Chaim just brings the kashya. B'tzarchiyin. He says b'tzarchiyin. I want to think. I need one more. I need one second to think. I'll tell you what we're gonna do. Listen to what we're gonna do. Rabbeinu... listen to what we're gonna do. I want to first speak out two more things, and I understand now why it's... okay, because I'm putting two things together. So so far we have a very nice teretz for Chaim, that there's a very big difference. There's a very big difference washing, right, and peeling. A very big difference between washing and peeling, okay. Reb Shlomo Zalman says it can't be that it's asur; it has to be mutar. And he has two raayos. One is, are you allowed to wash a piece of chicken from the dam that's on it? There's blood; you got blood on the chicken. Are you allowed to wash it? So Mishnah Berurah in siman ches, se'if katan yud, and in shin chaf aleph, se'if katan chaf aleph, says clearly it's mutar lirchotz habasar. Says Reb Shlomo Zalman, this can't be any worse. It can't be worse, right? If I'm washing the dam, this is the same thing. Then he brings from Mishnah Berurah, siman ches, se'if katan lamed-vav, that it's mutar to take the—so we learned this—the salty fish and to rinse the salt off the fish. So again, so what do you see from here? That you're allowed to take and rinse and clean, huh? So it's the same thing, right? You're washing from the fish; from the fish you're washing off. So l'choira you have to say—so I told you in Shoneh Halachos, Reb Chaim brings this as kashas. L'choira, what do you do with these cases? You see clearly that you're allowed to wash things off. Kashya, it's a mamash a stirah. He says tzarich iyun. So in the pamphlets he says that even though he said— But he says in those cases, the salt was added. The dam was not; it became blood. It's called yayin dam. Rashi calls it yayin dam; it's good stuff. Whatever, but it's dam that came later. You're talking about a cooked piece of chicken. Yeah, because Rashi says it's good, it's mutar, you can eat it, it's very good. Whatever it is, it's dam that fell onto this. Ma she'ein kein, if it nisgadel, which means it came that way l'chatchila, then it becomes aser. So the tapuchei adamah is, the pshat, it comes dirty. The tapuchei adamah comes dirty. So it comes out a very big chiddush. So if, let's say, I'm washing the apple not because it became dirty, but rather I'm washing—it didn't fall on the floor—but I'm washing the apple because, let's say, I open up a box of apples and they're dirty from, I guess, from the tree. Unless maybe they don't come dirty from the tree, huh? Maybe that's the word. They don't come dirty from the tree. That's what R' Chaim means. No, it's because they're on low ground. Quite often, a lot of apples fall from the tree onto— But what would you call that? That fell on the ground? I guess you'd call that gadel. No, no, no, no. It's how they grow. They fall down on the ground and people pick them up, or they're on the tree and they pick them off. But it's not dirty. It's not dirty.

Okay, now let me ask you like this. If you learn that the problem is sheriyah, it's not the cleaning, so yizhacha a kli here. So it's possible, says Rav Nissim Karelitz, that this is not called biyad anymore. So ein hachanami, kiluf would be mutar when it's biyad. But to use a kli, the problem is that it's called al yedei kli. And even if I don't use a kli, I'm stam washing, maybe the water becomes a kli. So lefi zeh, it would come out a very big chiddush, that if I don't do that, I would just take an apple and rub it against my shirt, it should be mutar. If the whole problem is bekli, so to rub the apple would be mutar. Ay, the Shulchan Aruch says, v'lo yishafshef byad. Water? Oh, that's with water. That was my mistake. Remember I told you it's very important to get the cases: is sheriyah bkli or is sheriyah washing? If sheriyah is bkli, so we could say it's bkli, and that's the difference between the apple. And even if you're going to say it's without the kli, I'm just washing it, so maybe the water becomes the problem, because the water becomes like I did it with a kli. So if I do it with my own hands without water, it becomes mutar. Ay, the Shulchan Aruch says, lo yishafshef. Maybe it means what? With water. Maybe it means with water. But if it's without water, if it's without water, it's mutar. And then I come to a very big chiddush. So even if I want to wash with water, and I want to use the heter that it's not b'kli, right? Let's say I just want to— wait, wait a minute. Because the Acharonim say a sevara that whenever I use washing, that's not called borer, that's called nikui. Wait a second. We had that, right? By hadachas keilim, by hangers. So then I won't be able to use my hands to wash. In other words, I could rinse it under the sink, but I won't be able to go around and clean it with my hand, because that's lo yeshafshef; we have this halacha. People don't know this. I hold it's a toyes gamur that the oilam makes. Let's say you hold you're allowed to wash something, right? But gezicha can't rub it under the sink, because then you have this halacha, lo yeshafshef. V'lo yishafen oso b'yad. An apple—you take an apple, you put it under the sink. The only way you could get around it is by just leaving it under the sink, that the water should give it a flushing. The running water could give it a flushing, maybe. And how does that work? By saying karchinim is sheriyah, and it's b'kli. The water is not the problem. But if once you stick your hand in there and you start shafing b'yad with the water, you're in trouble. So people do that. One second, when I wash an apple in the week, that's how I—I don't just put it under the sink for a second. I rub it with my hands. That's called der breirer. I'm telling you, rabboisai, this is my next agenda. My next agenda, after the one before this, and after the one before that, the one after the one before that. My next agenda is this: even the matirim, which we're going to learn is R' Moshe and Reb Elyashiv. R' Moshe and Reb Elyashiv held that you're allowed to wash fruits on Shabbos. R' Moshe, ... siman kuf chaf hei. R' Moshe says you're allowed to wash on Shabbos. You're allowed to wash on Shabbos. Let me give you the exact teshuva, kuf chaf hei. I mean, I can't remember בעל פה, but anyways, just to make sure, just to be on the safe side, just to be on the safe side. Yes, yes, one second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's the answer. L'maaseh halachah, Igros Moshe, kuf mem hei—excuse me, Orach Chaim, chelek aleph, siman kuf— I thought it was kuf chaf. Kuf mem hei, Reb Elyashiv, and ... machmir. The Chazon Ish holds it's aser. The Chazon Ish holds you're not allowed to wash fruits on Shabbos. So I hold that even according to R' Moshe, you have to clear, you're allowed to just put it under the sink. What? He learned that it has nothing to do with shriyah b'kli. That's where the Chazon Ish— the Chazon Ish learned ain't kashya, even without shriyah. Stomp.

Put it in the water. Im metzamtzef, obviously, that's what you learned. But even if you learn like R' Moshe, even if you learn like R' Moshe, shaf b'yad would be aser. Now, maybe that's okay. Again, my chiddush is, I have two chiddushim. That's if you hold of me, you could on the ... like everybody else does, then there's no problem. He comes, he's a meikel, like he's talking about. Okay, good, ... So then you have R' Moshe. But even R' Moshe, I'm telling you, maybe it's a shaf b'yad. I hope, rabosai, tonight is a classic shiur. Listen to me. I said it, it could be a little bit quickly, but I just now, because I thought it was better a little later. We have more to cover. But you heard the whole halachah back and forth? Reb Shlomo Zalman held that it's nikui. So meileh, what's nikui? Maybe just putting it under the sink, but sheriyah is aser. Like the other shitah, even if it ain't shaf b'yad, ... you're going to say the mayim is the kli. Without the hands, would it come off? Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Metzamtzef alei mayim and it comes off. So, Reb Yitzchok, where'd you go? Huh? ... Reb Yitzchok, ... You're masking? No. Which part are you not masking to? You're not masking to the whole thing. Huh? Which part is aser? Which part is mutar? The whole thing is aser. All right. Reb Yitzchok, it's a very pashut ... I'm saying a very pashut cheshbon. Let's say you took a fruit and you washed it. Would you compare it to karshinin, sheriyah? Would you compare it to metzafsef? Would you compare it to the story of nikui? Maybe it's just called cleaning. Or is it called ein shafin beyad? I don't know where to put it back. Item ishibur talks about tapuchei adamah, so I have a few terutzim. First of all, tapuchei adamah can be very dirty. Who said an apple's so dirty? An apple's so dirty like tapuchei adamah? It's edible. You eat it. People clean it. So maybe the whole sugya. And even if you're going to say that that's not called what? That's not called sheriyah. Okay, so sheriyah is aser, but to put it under a sink is mutar, right? That's what R' Moshe holds. R' Moshe, b'li ashur hold that you're allowed to wash fruit. Why? It's no different than peeling a fruit. Good. We have to know how that works. Fine. But even if it's true that it works, could be, could be, that's only if you don't use your hand. If you use your hand, you have the other problem, ein shafin beyad. So the truth is the only way to do it, if you're going to do it, is to put it under the sink. That's it. Not more than that. You hear? It's very fair to say that ein shafin should be... I don't know if Mr. Karelitz wants to say this chiddush. That's... yeah, because it's the kli itself and not the water. Yeah, yeah. No, but he's saying a vort, that could be mayim is no different because it's not yad. Anything which is not yad is called kli. But by shafin, you're using your hand. I'm telling you, that's why, that's what I'm answering you, that even if you hold all the heterim, that l'maaseh it's cool. No, no, no. I'm going like the earlier. Earlier, Rabbi said that like the ones that hold that, that, that, that stacker, it's stacker, it's stacker problem. But are you do it with your hand? What about the heter l'alter? So, so Rabbi said that. We look at ein shofin, ein shofin, you see it's asur. It's asur. But it could be by ein shofin it's not called a kli. The fact that you have to use your hand a lot could be... That's what I'm telling you. You would have a heter l'alter. That's what I'm telling you. But I'm telling you, even if you're gonna— okay, let me just repeat. I know. So let me give you the steps, okay? In clarity, come on. So I love you so much. Listen, you're like my own child. That's why I schlepp you like this. It's not about me, it's about you. That's how much I care about you more than anything in the world. If you knew how much I care about you, you'd understand that. Forgive me if I schlepp you and if I drive you up. You know what I'm saying? I care about you so much. Listen, careful. Listen good. You're not allowed to soak. So the first step is maybe fruits is not the same thing as tapuchi adam. Maybe. And then—

Leave fruits alone and have a nice day. Next. That's one. That's my chiddush. My chiddush is that this has nothing to do with fruits. It has to be tapuchei adam. Okay. Even if you're going to say, I don't know what I'm talking—fine, you have the right to. It's like, you can say whatever you want. Fine, done. Okay, I don't know what I'm talking about. Next. Then we have to say, but one minute, maybe the problem is only when it's soaking. Yeah, but it wasn't clear in the Mechaber what he was referring to. Mishnah Berurah does speak about water. You brought the Biur Halacha, right? It's just the next case that he's putting water on it. It doesn't say anything about a kli. How you work out the lashon of beisah. So then it becomes aser. If you say tapuchei adam is lav davka, it's all fruits. And if you're going to say that it's not because it's maichal behemah, it's even maichal adam, okay, right? And you're going to say it doesn't have to need a kli, so then you can't wash a fruit on Shabbos, right? That's the chazon ish. That's how the Chazon Ish learned this sugya. Okay, so he's done. According to Chazon Ish, there's no washing fruits on Shabbos. Everybody brings down the Chazon Ish, fine. Rav Moshe goes further. Rav Elyashiv goes further and says, no. You see by kiluf in this and this sugya and that sugya and that—okay. So what do we have? So we have a sugya like this. Maybe tapuchei adam is different. Rav Chaim Kanievsky, because it comes with the dirt. Okay, so apples are also not—it's another way of saying apples are not. Fine. Or we could come and say, wait a minute, parshinen, you're not allowed to soak it, but to wash it would be mutar, which is what Rav Moshe is trying to do. Correct? I don't know. So he's not learning that. He's learning b'kli means it's b'kli. What, that sitting in a kli and pouring the water—right, I'm pouring one and it's soaking. But if I would just rinse it, that's called derech nikui. So those that aser, why don't they look at derech nikui? Because they look at it that the water becomes like a kli. The water is a kli, or if it's a kli, then it's zechah kli. Ein shofin b'yad, so that's what I'm trying to tell you. Even according to Moshe's ... what do you do with ein shofin b'yad? So unless ein shofin b'yad, maybe it's without water. When it's not with water, maybe ein shofin b'yad is without water. Where did ein shofin b'yad come from? It says next halacha, v'lo shofin b'yad. What does the Chazanish say when you just rub it against? The Chazanish, it comes from other mekoros. There's no mefurash Chazon Ish. Every Reb Chaim and every ... and Brisker ... they all quote the Chazon Ish: you're not allowed to wash fruits on Shabbos, end of story, done. No, he doesn't speak about it. You're not allowed to wash fruits on Shabbos. So maybe the case of ein shofin could be without mayim, maybe. But once it's with water, maybe it all becomes mutar; it's derech nikui. Mai dilma, no, it's always asur, shofin b'yad. So even if you're going to be matir to wash, could be, could be, because what is derech nikui maybe? Mashenkein if I rub something, it's derech borer pesoles, maybe. Maybe I'm clarifying, could be. And that's what it is, kuf mem hei, that's what I have in my notes. So look at it, it's got to be there. Usually my notes are right. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. So good, most Acharonim want to say that it's not. Most Acharonim want to say that it's not. What did? What did tapuchei adam, which is ma'achal adam, that's how they learned that, the ... tapuchei adam. I mean, the whole world learns it that way, pashut tapuchei adam. Okay, but, kids, rabosai, give me two seconds. Not p'seles techoich. Not p'seles techoich. If you learn that this is the p'seles techoich, it becomes asur. It's kuf chaf hei, you see? The memory said kuf—remember I told you kuf chaf hei. I said I remember Kuf Chaf-Hey, and then I saw my notes, Kuf Mem-Hey. So what are you gonna do? And the note... ...that's his time. All right, efshar. Baruch Hashem, I remember Kuf Chaf-Hey. That's good. That's in the zechus of my reverence for the Rosh Yeshiva. Okay, b'kitzur. Final, final cases, just to throw it out now. What about if a person wants to wash because he's afraid of the pesticides? So Rav Nissim Karelitz says, b'sheim the Chazon Ish, that's mutar. If you do it for the dirt, that's no pas. If you do it for the pesticides, why? It's not there. You can't see it. So says Rav Nissim Karelitz, ... so there's never a problem filtering water according to Chazon Ish. It's not niker. There's nothing what to talk about. Water. What's the difference? There's no psel, it's not niker. Huh? Not ... The kitzur, so what do we have? What do you do with bugs? So what's called niker in bugs, okay? So l'choira, in the water, I guess you could say it's not niker, huh? What's in the Coke cans where David holds it's niker.

Okay, so let's say that it's not niker, okay? What about on the salads, meaning on the— lettuce. What about the lettuce? ... says on the lettuce it's what? It's taka aser. Grown dirty, a sand all over. I would say according to the Chazon Ish, maybe it's mutar. No, it's not niker. There's something made the gush katif a sand all over it to wash it. I'm asking about dirty, about bugs. If you're worried about the bugs on the charoses, on the whatever, on the romaine lettuce, maybe it's just not niker either. ... Why is that any different than the bugs in the water? And if the Chazon Ish holds by the bugs in the water, that's not called niker, it's mutar. You can see the bugs on the lettuce. I want to tayn according to the Chazon Ish. You can see the bugs on the lettuce. Don't feel guilty. We love when you talk. Don't feel guilty. Don't feel guilty. You hear what I want to be mechadesh? If you hold with this Chazon Ish, how far do you take? You can see the bugs by those things. I know. Tevel is also. Tevel is asur. I'm machshir, should be ... I'm metaken it now. Yeah, but he holds, but because it's issurim, not tevel. Maybe issur is a little different. It's not dirty, it's issur maybe. ... Ya? Ya, geshmak. ... Go ahead. ... many times. ... We've never heard you before.